14 Bible Verses That Debunk Jehovah's Witness Shunning

[@ssh-jq5ov]

Never thought I'd be watching these kind of videos... Hope no one I know sees this comment. I'm a 20 year old born in who is starting to question everything, and these videos along with other youtubers have been helping me a lot. I've thought about leaving, but the consequences that come with leaving are too much and I don't think I'd be able to handle it. My mom told us from a young age that if we didn't want to be witnesses anymore that we couldn't live with her and that we'd get no support. I'm trying to see if I can take some classes so I can get a better job one day and move out. I've always felt so alone in this religion (or cult) like I don't belong, and now I see why. I just wish I had known things earlier before I got baptized at 14... I feel stuck, unhappy and mostly scared. Scared if Armageddon does come I'll die, it's a terrible feeling to have all the time. It's just hard to imagine that all you've done for the organization was for nothing. I put off going to school so I could pioneer instead. I lost someone I really cared about because he wasn't a witness, I lost touch with good people who would have made good friends just because they weren't witnesses. Sorry for the ramble but I just wanted to say thank you Lloyd for all the hard work and effort you put in your videos. Its greatly appreciated 👌🏾

[@LloydEvans]

Thanks so much, and I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. It may seem almost impossible now, but with patience, planning and persistence I am sure you will attain for yourself the authentic, fulfilled life you deserve.

[@NS-qd1lq]

its ok. you're 20. i wish my eyes opened at 20. just take a breath and step away. then things make sense. i know it feels heavy, the guilt, and i wish you the best.

[@MrTherockobama]

I’m in the same area, I’m 21 in a few days. I wish I had known sooner, do you get on the app called kik theres an ex jw group on there we usually talk sometimes

[@jasmineduran6731]

Ash I feel the same. I’m almost 20 and I want out because I see the crap they do behind the scenes. But until I move, I still have to go to the Kingdom Hall. Had the organization not gotten themselves into the shit they’re in, I would’ve stayed in.

[@jamieangel3766]

Can you give us an update as its a year later? It seems daunting having to give up everything and everyone you've ever known but its more daunting to have to live a life that is inauthentic and where you can never be who you really are. You'll soon realise from researching this 'religion' that WT has been lying to us for years and Armaggeddon is not coming nor are they the FDS with special communication with Jehovah. Wish you all the best whatever you do! Thank goodness you woke up by yourself while still young

[@marnieandme84]

The prodigal son is all that’s really needed truth be told

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

Jesus simply didn't teach shunning.

[@joshgreen1711]

jesus didnt teach anything because we have no good reasons to believe he was even a real person. A better way to say it would be... "stories about jesus do not advocate jw practices"

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

@@joshgreen1711 I can't truly prove Jesus or the kind of God people portray speak of exist But when my own mother, husband and many other people that weren't even religious themselves have had NDEs.... near death experience (You can research some of the stories on KZbin) and they are not the kind of people who would make something up like that, It leads me to believe there is something more beyond our physical life here. I believe now we have a spirit that moves on but not to a place of judgement. My mothers NDE bothered me for a long time being a Wittness but I just sort of let that slide, till I left the religion and met my husband a non- religious man who told me of an experience he had at the age of 7 or 8. He had a seizure and remembers leaving his body and floating above himself . He did see the light many see. Then he was sent back. My mother was told to go back for one of her children who was in trouble. She didn't know who and why. I was being malested so I figure that was me. I can't explain any other way she knew.. so I don't believe she was having a hilusination. What ever people experience tends to be what would make them personally feel comfortable depending on who they see but my mother said the person she spoke to was Jesus or Maybe she just thought he was but I think for those people, that is the tangible proof they need. What they all have in common is that their experience is more real then what we experience here. Our earthly life is more like the dream. Because of such experiences, that is why I believe there is more for us then what we know here. I haven't joined any religions because I dont believe we need to to in order to reach such an existence after we die. Interesting that the Jesus from the bible taught about such a place. Even though I dont think the Bible has all the correct answers and for the most part is full of crap because of human experiences such as NDE's it is possible some truth got in. I understand why many choose not to believe in a God because of religious lies but that doesn't mean we necessarily cease to exist beyond our mothers wome or beyond our physical bodies. I personally can't be satisfied thinking this short life is all there is but I don't believe we have to be a part of a religion who tells us we must do such and such to be worthy of it. Having all the right answers to some great quiz is ridiculous. We know instinctively how to be a decent human being. If a God or simply nature or our consciousness has another existence for us to live at some point then it's simply meant to be not a conditional thing. To say Jesus never existed I would need proof of that also.

[@joshgreen1711]

Random Person are you familiar with Hitchens razor?

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

@@joshgreen1711 I have listened to several debates and speeches from Razor and there is one speach in which he gives his reasons to believe there has been a lot of fabrication about Jesus nature leading up to his death but he said that such a man may have existed even though he doesn't care about whether he did or not. He didn't make claim that he never existed. He does'nt however believe in a deity or that Jesus was God. I for one have as many doubts about the bible myself or its accuracy and religious sanity today. I have used many of the same arguments he has used. Not against the possibility of a creator or God but against the absurd teachings of mans religions to gain power over people. I know from being an ex- jw how absurd those teachings can be. I applaud his criticism of why would God expect us to pass some earthly test in order to avoid being destroyed or sent to hell. I've used the example of the book Hunger Games to point out totalitarianism being used in religious thinking as being sick and twisted. Why would a God do that ? Especially if he is supposed to be loving , Its contradictory but doesn't prove a man named Jesus never walked the earth. Many books of chronology and historical figures have been recorded. Yes there have been fabrications, streaching the truth, embelishments galore even in our own American history books yet there always exist some truth about the past. It is important for me to mention I don't necessarily believe Jesus was God and I'm not bold enough to judge who he is or was or whether there is a God. I don't know. I also dont think I'm supposed to ace that answer to some great cosmic quiz to avoid condemnation either. What I do think is Jesus probably was a historical figure who saw the religious nonsense amoung the Jews in his day much like Razor points to today. They probably did put him to death for exposing their stupidity but he was more likely a man. I know it sounds like I must believe in all the religious dogma that most people except without question but like you I also question it's just for me I believe we very well have a spirit that separates from our physical body and takes on a new existance and that existance may or may not have anything to do with God or creation but an alarming number of people swear they've experienced it. Is it really so unbelievable to think maybe just as we leave our existence in the wome to live a physical life we know and then when our body dies we move on to the next existence? It's no more strange then the fact that we do exist and can't explain why. It's no more strange than the possibility of evolution of man or the big bang. If it is it just simply is. Most of us just don't have tangible proof of it yet. See I dont believe in something more after we die because of the bible and I dont belong to a church. Neither have many atheist who've also had NDE experiences. Razor argues against the validity of the bible and religious doctrines, not whether a man jesus existed. Those arguments of his I can except because man has also messed with the books from the get go but if we move on in spirit as human beings to another demention or existance then so did Jesus which explains why some people claim he was present when they had their NDE. I understand some people like yourself refuse to believe in such a thing. The only thing I wander is, are you happy with the idea of nothing more after you die? I guess I'm not but my mother's experience gives me hope not a religion.

[@joshgreen1711]

Random Person Random Person Random Person While there's a lot there to break down so I'm sure I'm gonna miss a few things. let get started. 1 his name is Christopher Hitchens, and while I think he is a really great author. let's not Get hung up on his views about Jesus. that being said you should read his books before quoting his KZbin debate videos 2. hitchens razor is a play on words, as in occams razor.... occams razor is that: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... Hitchens razor is that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. 3. Regardless of my personal belief about a historical Jesus type person , The existence or non existence of such a person would say nothing To the divinity of some sort of creator. 4. And finally My happiness about the idea of life after death or near death experiences is irrelevant. Personal experiences even my own would not constitute as evidence of an afterlife. Not for myself and certainly not for other people. Playing those kinds of games with people would make any God an immoral monster.

[@jasonchapman4028]

Lost my uncle last week. I wasn't even told he had died and was unable to attend the JW funeral. Really upsetting. Any way thank you for this video. I cried most way through it. I think it's one of your best...

[@dr.richmann4477]

Hi Jason. Sorry to hear about your uncle. Yes, the JW's are like the modern day Pharisees. Shun the tax collector and sinner. But, as John so excellently pointed out, Jesus didn't shun them. And we are to follow Jesus footsteps closely.

[@lisajane4330]

So sorry to hear that, its not right 😢. Was so sad watching my disfellowshipped mum go through the same thing when her aunty who she loved died a few years ago, no one even invited her she was heartbroken.

[@jasonchapman4028]

@@lisajane4330 yeah it's hard to understand. I can't really process it. Thanks for your comment.

[@jepthahsdaughter335]

Sorry to hèar about your uncle. Much love x

[@michellem2042]

Jason, sorry for your loss, im hoping you have people around you to support you during this difficult time. Again sorry for your loss.

[@penelopep2678]

regarding the good samaritan ... my father in law who is an elder, asked me recently. We had a couple of men killed on a train for sticking up for a woman in a hijab and the men were stabbed for interfering with the person bullying her. My father in law asked. If you were on the train what would you have done? I said I would do the same thing. I would have said something. He said, "then you didn't read the latest watchtower! We DO NOT get involved with the people of the nations!!!" I asked what about the good samaritan parable? He said that doesn't apply now at the time of the end & that I would NOT be resurrected for not valuing my life and getting involved with the people of the nations. My answer was well at least I would die feeling good about what I did. So if you want to know how deep love for others go. That is how far. It was another chunk out of my faith of what I belonged to. It is never one thing but a series of things throughout the years that make you realize this just cannot be right.

[@byebyewatchtower]

I never read there was a time limit for the good samaritan parable. Watchtower makes things up as things happen. Ignorance is golden.

[@byebyewatchtower]

So, I take that if someone was choking, he would not get help or administer first aid. Your father-in-law would start preaching to an individual that was choking. Wow! Not much love there.

[@dr.richmann4477]

Yes, by all means, start preaching! Start counting your time. Give this months presentation. Place a Watchtower. But if they die choking you'll have to stop counting your time, unless you keep it going by witnessing to the ambulance crew.

[@dr.richmann4477]

Typical judgmental JW. Saying you will not be resurrected....They love to say who will be resurrected and who will not be. They're all talking outta their ass.

[@penelopep2678]

I am still looking for the watchtower he brought up but have yet to find it. I want to believe he was just wrong. But still i do believe that is basically most witnesses feelings in general. They help their own.

[@lisajane4330]

A couple of weeks ago two JW ladies knocked on my door, & as always I explained I was raised a witness but left due to many reasons.. one being that I don't agree with shunning. One of the ladies said yeah my non believing husband can't get his head around that either & the other one casually said well it's been happening since the first century & went on to descibe it as putting a small child in the "time out" corner. Ahh I don't think so, putting a toddler in the time out corner for 5mins for naughty behaviour compared to ignoring a grown adult for years on end, absolutely no comparison! I thanked them for calling & wished them well but they couldn't leave fast enough 🙂

[@cindylozano626]

Thank God my mom hasn't shunned me. She's a Jehovah's witness, but she would never kick me out of her life. I used to be a Jehovah's witness until I was 18.

[@lulukinyozibeauty5628]

John if only more people would listen to the viewpoint and facts you present they would wake up.Your channel is growing for a good reason.

[@classickruzer1]

The man is LYING... Read 1 Corinthians 5 - 11... Those words came from the mouth of Jesus, not this LIAR..

[@DutchJoan]

@@classickruzer1 Yelling won't get you very far. Please explore New Testament bible scholars about the letters allegedly written by Paul. Historical and textual criticism point out that almost none could have been written by Paul. If that's a lie, what more is a lie considering the bible? Does the bible really say what you think it does? Have you read it without someone else telling you what it means? Read the words, let it sink in. Read multiple translations if you can.

[@classickruzer1]

@@DutchJoan I HAVE ZERO FAITH IN SO-CALLED BIBLE SCHOLARS. .OF COURSE THEY WILL DENY THE WRITINGS OF THE ACTUAL WRITERS BECAUSE THEIR GOAL IS TO APPEAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND SUCK IN THE IGNORANT MASSES WHO WILL LAUD THEM AND PLACE THEIR NAMES AMONG THE RENOWNED.. OF COURSE YOU AND THEY TOO, CAN BELIEVE WHAT SATISFIES YOUR DESIRES.. CONNIVING OTHERS TO BELIEVE IT BY WAY OF DEMEANING AND CHASTISING THEM ONLY MAKES THOSE VIEWS LESS VIABLE...

[@michaelmarrero2290]

they do t believe in Jesus they think he is Michael the Arche Angel😇

[@michaelmarrero2290]

they pick and choose who to shun

[@slymm619]

Life = Better after watching this

[@annep2693]

"Make it your aim to live quietly, and to mind your own business..." That whole verse is amazing! It needs to be on a t-shirt. What a great verse to recite to JW's who preach door-to-door.

[@byebyewatchtower]

I tell them to keep their religion to themselves.

[@wookiedude21]

Brilliant! I love the Good Samaritan parable to this day, I still need to be reminded to be merciful and compassionate.

[@georgebrown8312]

Don't we all need to be reminded to practice showing mercy for others. You said it very well.

[@belialord]

I cannot stress enough how perfect is the timing of this video's release, I mean, my family has learned just this week that one of my cousins is going to be disfellowshipped, which made my mother drop into tears. I am now in the process on translating the jwsurvey article into portuguese (my native lang) in order to show her. Thanks a lot. Ps.: I'm afraid I'll have to take out the credits for myself in order to show her, sorry Lloyd. (lol)

[@SilverGirl-925]

I keep thinking of the excessive sadness the parents must experience when they feel forced to shun their own children. It's hard to comprehend that they are under such control by the WT that they would so willingly do something that causes so much pain on both sides.

[@beautyRest1]

That’s true, my child is disfellowshiped, but I keep in touch with him and we have great conversations and I’m still in....

[@jasmineduran6731]

Beauty Rest that’s great! I’d so the same if I continued to stay in this organization, but I plan on leaving. The lawsuit scandal and hypocrisy is too much and to me it doesn’t make sense that a loving righteous God would stay and bless shepherds who act like this.

[@beautyRest1]

DJ Jazz also the false predictions and that they were in the UN, it’s so many things. Also the secrecy, btw, my son got reinstated a few weeks ago. I’m fortunate that I can talk to him about all the things that bother me. Been in it almost 50 years.

[@jamesmcginn8874]

all they want you to do is sell their crappy mags--pioneers--what a joke...

[@christopher5040]

@@beautyRest1 one more enzymatic conversion and you're almost there...

[@cindyarnold7322]

These are the lessons I took away from the New Testament that have served me the best. Thank you for reminding me of these scriptures.

[@groovy9125]

Great information on shunning Lloyd. You made a statement that shunning is cruel. I absolutely agree that in a lot of instances that is absolutely true. But when a Jehovah’s Witness shuns someone, it’s always a two way street. They’re in turn isolating themselves from the so called “sinners”, aka: NON-Jehovah’s Witnesses. But in my case whereby my sister is shunning me, she’s actually being MUCH MORE cruel to herself than she is to me. And this may sound conceited, but I have much more experience than she does with practical things on how to live in this world when it comes to financial matters, health, real estate, etc. So, she’s shunning herself from a wealth of advice & information her brother could provide. So I just shrug it off, knowing it’s really her loss.

[@groovy9125]

I think in the mind of the Jehovah's Witnesses, they can get along with "worldly" people only because they have to in order to work and do business with them. And, most of the people in the "world" that they interact with were never a witness anyway. But in my case, and in the case of other former cult Jehovah's Witness members, we left the "truth" and rejected it. And if memory serves, I believe they refer to a scripture in Revelation 3:15-16 mentioning being spit out of God's mouth for being lukewarm. So as former cult members, we're much worse than those who never "knew the truth". And as a side note, I'm not at all lukewarm. I totally reject the cult beliefs of the Watchtower Organization.

[@davidpatterson3582]

I agree Roger but I also think jw's view "worldly" people as potential recruits so they want to portray themselves and the "organization" in a positive light at all times.I think people don't understand how powerful mind control can be

[@groovy9125]

Yeah for sure, good point David. I think the WTB&TS has mind control down to a science. Members are actually afraid to even look at anything negative about the organization, else they may 'displease' Jehovah. They drill that into the minds of the vulnerable JW's, and they remain stuck in a cult. Same reason they don't want them pursuing a higher education. They may learn something other than what's in their publications; and now their website. Looking back, I find it almost unbelievable that I stayed in for fifteen years and pioneered seven of those years. Yikes!!!

[@davidpatterson3582]

Yeah Roger being a former member myself I understand what you mean. When you wake up and finally admit that you were in a cult then everything starts to make sense. If you REALLY have the TRUTH then there should be absolutely ZERO problems with you doing research or asking questions because the REAL TRUTH NEVER EXPIRES and always STAYS THE SAME

[@Basil11707]

Oh my goodness! Thank you for just posting this! (Must be Jehovah's blessing lol) my roommate just went after me, I lost a close friend and just had two elders knock on my door all within the week. I'm "fading" right now and have been for 5 months. I know it won't last forever but in the conversation with a close friend and my roommate the shunning and 1Cor 5 came up in conversation. So I'm glad I have more knowledge if they come at me again. Thank you!

[@eragonzaroc]

John, I so enjoyed this. You eviscerated the shunning doctrine. I actually cried, knowing you were expressing all that my feelings have been. What is interesting is you effectively use the Bible to set things straight.

[@lucaswakefield4511]

This is a great video and a great article. The only problem I have with these is that anyone I would like to show is already shunning me. At the same time it's nice to know that I wasn't wrong to leave the Witnesses. Despite how much they put emphasis on the Bible, they really are no different than the Pharisees that were spoken against.

[@average8011]

The Bible? Their Bible! Gods word is clear.

[@lucaswakefield4511]

@@average8011 you have every right to believe that. I hope it makes you happy and fulfilled. 😊

[@MJBsays]

The problem is that, even if they speak to you, as my family does, there isn't substance to the relationship. It will never be a "genuine" relationship because their beliefs permeate every aspect of their life. Even if you don't touch the subject of religion, there simply aren't any subjects to converse together, because they will always aproach ANY random subject from a jw perspective. Personally, I'm happier when they shun so that I don't have to pretend to care and bite my tonge a thousand times per minute.

[@lisajane4330]

Completely agree, I faded awhile ago & I'm fortunate to have a little bit of contact by a few of my family members, when it suits them every 4 months or so but its small talk & religion talk is avoided, so very difficult for me to just be myself & share what I'm learning & what my opinions are on things as I know I would be branded an apostate.

[@audreyst-louis5741]

I couldn’t agree more. My mom and I got out but my brother and Dad are very much in. They don’t shun but wow is socializing with them ever awkward! My dad is not so bad but my brother being newly baptized is so annoying. It’s like he feels guilt if he doesn’t bring up Jehovah in every convo. It’s annoying how they find ways to bring him up to make you feel guilt. “Wow what a nice day eh?!” Then you get “oh definitely, Jehovah really blessed us with a sunny day” or “oh my day was good and yours?” You get “oh it was good, met up with a brother from my hall and went for lunch, we’re all getting together to watch the Broadcast tonight.” I sit on the other line like 🙄 However I fight back with agreeing that Jah did give us a beautiful day and when telling me about his day with brothers I’m like “oh that’s great! Sounds like a nice plan filled day” I try to show him that us Apostates aren’t so bad 😜 oh and I’ll mention, my mom can’t even stand having her own son visit because it’s a lot of awkwardness and she says she barely recognizes her own son. That he’s turned so robotic.

[@MJBsays]

I hear you guys. I've been out for 20 years, and we reached a point that unless I message or call, they don't call me or message me. When I do, the answers are short, polite, but leading to no more conversation, they cut the conversation at the first available opportunity. If my mother says something is always negative stuff like how sick they have been, how my dad's health is deteriorating. That's it, like there's nothing else she should communicate to me. She never says one thing positive, tell me something fun...and I have like a million things positive happening in any given day, but I don't feel like telling her anything as she dumps my spirit. And yet, every single day I see a totally different side to her since I can see her constant status updates on Whatsapp (7-8 times a day), with tons of cute things to say about life and to other people, jw people of course.

[@audreyst-louis5741]

Michela J That’s so unfortunate. You’d think it would be simple to have a normal relationship if you just agree to not talk religion but it’s not. It will never be the same. My dad hasn’t shunned me but I think it’s the same situation as yours. He doesn’t contact me anymore. He used to text me every morning and tell me to have a good day and that he loves me. He doesn’t contact me at all. We don’t really talk unless I make the move and text or call him. So now I’m at the point that I’m leaving it in his hands and we’ll see how long this drags on. Like he quit calling and texting the day I told him I was done with the organization. He claims he’s been distant because he messed up his anxiety and depression meds and had to stop and then start from scratch but I don’t think so. This has been dragging on long enough now. You should see the difference with my moms non believing side and my dads JW side. My dads side everyone has mental issues. They’re all either depressed, have anxiety or other issues. My moms side, complete opposite. You really see how the org screws people up.

[@lisajane4330]

@@audreyst-louis5741 haha I can relate. I dont see my brother at all anymore as his always overseas where the need is great (countries under ban by the way-crazy) but about 7 years ago while still in hospital after having my first baby my brother popped in as he happened to be witnessing in the area & he started studying with me, pulled out all his books! which was a shock I just wanted to see my brother (Im 3 years older then him & had got baptised 13 years earlier, so very aware of it all & had alot of reasons on leaving it)

[@penelopep2678]

I love this- thanks. Also I just finished your book today. I cried my eyeballs out reading the letter to your mother at the end. My father passed away and left me a letter repeatedly saying, " you will be ok as long as you stay close to Jehovah" It hurts my heart when I see it. But your letter actually brought me comfort and I thought that I may do it as well. It seems like good mental closure. Thank you.

[@LloydEvans]

Thanks Penelope. I'm so glad my book brought you comfort. Particularly the letter! :)

[@michellem2042]

penelope, which book did you read? doesnt he have more than one book, i want to read that letter that he wrote

[@abeward1265]

Thank you for doing this video. I'm fully aware that you've done several videos on shunning and how it isn't actually scriptural. But after scrolling through your many videos I could only find several fairly long videos that have this information in them among much else. Having this one video specifically and exactly on this topic makes it much easier to send to my disfellowshipped friends and family with the aim of providing them with specific reasons why this practice is not only inhumane and terrible but also non-biblical

[@richardlabarre8493]

Was df’d 43 yrs ago. Have now been sober 35 yrs, and am definitely not the person I used to be at 75 yrs old. Tried returning, but the humiliation I felt was too much...

[@honeyholly001]

I love that you share this stuff Lloyd presenting facts and verses from the Bible it's something that witnesses could watch without feeling like you are pushing athiest ideas on them.

[@catseye10000]

I found a JW AWAKE PAMPHLET at the laundry mat and ripped it up

[@fogweaver5633]

I have had a habit of doing this for many years now. A sheep on the street tried to force a Watchtower into my hand. I took it, ripped it into 4 pieces, and let them flutter to the ground without even breaking stride. I had a train to catch. The "off air" hum from her cranium did this surprised burble. It was greaet.

[@jepthahsdaughter335]

Also isaiah 58.v 7 says share your bread with the hungry ...and not to turn your back on your own flesh.

[@chriscampas-svensson461]

Thanks Lloyd enjoyed this video tremendously. We left 2 yrs ago and are now Episcopalians it’s 180 degrees from where we came from. It’s all about Jesus and his love for us. We respect all views even non believers in our bulletin it says “our purpose is to spread the love of Jesus and to promote the dignity and respect of all human beings”

[@warmongergx]

I find it strange that the rank and file are reading these same scriptures and interpreting them so differently.

[@Royal-Jaywick]

Because they are blinded and the gb have control of what is their truth rather than oneself own truth and reason

[@jeffreyl5151]

They're not interpreting the scriptures it's being interpreted for them.

[@jamessteel1740]

The Heretic : unfortunately the rank and file JWs have very little options. They cant question the imterpretation of the GB publicly. I dont agree with the interpratation of shunning and for the most part I see eye to eye with Lloyd, the atheist ex JW! (In this interpretation: well done Loyd). I say hell to disfellowshipped ones when I see them in town. Should any member of my family get disfellowshipped I keep my reltion with the person. The GB may change one day this interpretation when the present light bulb bursts and decide to a low energy LED light producing devise.LOL

[@rickymartin8941]

Great show Lloyd, being disfellowshipped twice been reinstated twice, now I just hide behind the bushes but, I still get to talk to my sister my ex-wife which means so much to me

[@RawGameplay0]

If I had a glass of water with me I would have spit it out mid sip like in all those cartoons for every scripture you quoted. Thank you so much Lloyd for this video. It literally destroyed any doubt I had about leaving the JW org.

[@byebyewatchtower]

The Pharisees started the practice of shunning. Not Jesus or Jehovah. Watchtower are you there? You have some explaining to do.

[@BenDover-fm7bm]

Paul was a former Pharisee - it's no surprise that some aspects of that mindset was retained...

[@jasmineduran6731]

Bye! Bye! Watchtower they did! I remember where the son healed from whatever ailment he had was shunned by the Pharisees because he had faith in Jesus and questioned the Pharisees and didn’t believe them. 😳🤯Dang, that sounds very much like the organization.

[@c.t8958]

You should give that talk in our congregation next weekend!😊 Thanks Lloyd

[@MultiSuperViewer]

Two years later... thank you for the content... you have helped me personally in ways you cannot imagine

[@TheCharliet43]

Thank you. I’ve always wanted to try to explain to my parents why shunning is wrong but never know what/how to say it. You’ve done it for me. Xx

[@christianmaharajh2214]

I lived through that nightmare; in fact, I am still shun. My close family is JW still. I left the JW’s about a decade ago. Videos like remind me it’s really a cult. I am now a born again Christian thanks that shunning which God used to show me there is no love in that all. Does Glorify God? He God does not outcast his children. He ask his children to repent and draw closer to him. It is not love for your neighbor either. Does God abandons us if we repent? Did he not used the prodigal son as an example. Shunning only leaves the person more vulnerable to temptations. Builds resentment, brings division, and as someone wrote, keeps the Jehovah’s Witnesses from taking accountability by saying, “ they are not longer Christian.” Shunning is to place fear and ungodly guilt since the guilt is not coming from God but from being judge and rejected…like in any abusive relationship. It’s a form of demonizing and controlling through emotional neglect. They take judgment into their own hands. Jesus died on the cross so we could call out to God in time of repentance. We no longer needed a priest to come to God…Jesus is the mediator between God and men. In the Jehovah witnesses you call out to the organization and they decide what repentance looks like and even put a time frame. Jesus protects the women who had committed adultery and kept her from stoned. Jehovah witnesses publicly expose your sin and leave you alone at your weakest moments without the body of Christ for support. The Bible says true love cast out fear and does not torture (John 4:18) Jehovah witness torture their member by saying that by being disfellowship, your no longer a Christian, God does not hear your prayers and your a traitor to his people. In sum…Jehovah witness are dangerous because they mess with your spirituality to point you no longer feel worthy to have a relationship with God. It has taken my sister and I years!!!! To heal.

[@sos1691]

Enjoyed it indeed. Who else but you could methodically unpack it and provide clarification for all to easily see it.

[@Keithbarber]

It is now about 22 years since I first met the disfellowshipped witness, when he mentioned attending watchtower conventions When I later mentioned about him being a witness, he told me he wasn't one, I mentioned about watchtower conventions, he mentioned he was "disfellowshipped", at the time I had to ask him to explain it, the first time I had ever heard the word, but over time, the true real evil of disfellowshipping was revealed, and the turning point was the sign in his bedroom he had pinned up that said DO NOT TALK TO THE BROTHERS and the policy of shunning disfellowshipped witnesses was revealed, and from that day to this, I have strictly avoided the j.w's, and claim "disfellowshipped" when I am offered literature from them The first occasion I was offered "something to read" by a witness on field service, I just said "disfellowshipped", he went "ah", put his tract away, turned his back and walked on, and it always works when offered their toilet paper called the watchtower and awake It is toilet paper, it is covered it sh*t

[@melodymakingmelodies4896]

Thank you so much for all the time and energy you put into creating these videos. I cannot understand how a JW can watch your videos and not wake up and smell at least a little coffee brewing. I appreciate all that you do which includes the writings of your two books. You looked so handsome and Dijana so lovely on your wedding day. I’m glad that you both made it out with each other. So much family division has stemmed from JW’s man-made polices. You’re not hitting them below the belt you’re striking the Governing Body right between the eyes. They can see your blows in real time and they’re being rapidly fired. The real truth can set an individual free. I can thank your channel, JW Survey, and JW Facts for playing an instrumental role in leading me to freedom. I personally thank you for everything. You’re single-handedly changing lives one book, one rebuttal and interview video at a time.

[@elizabethjohnston8193]

Wow...ive listened to more Bible verses in the past week of finding ur videos than in the past 30 yrs I've been out. And they were used for us, not against us. Thanks Lloyd....

[@sherrellsabree50]

Love this! Thank you...Ive used these same scriptures before but your narrative behind the verses adds the best color for me. Thank you so much.

[@cosmic__dylan]

This is one of the best videos you have made :-O

[@julespetyt6930]

Great Lloyd, thanks a lot. I have been working on a blog on this for a while. I shall unashamedly steal some of these scriptures

[@jesuschristismykingandsavi8172]

The 40 persons that give the thumbs down, happy you are here doing your researching 👏 the light is getting brighter thank God.

[@robertsandberg2246]

Another fine example of Lloyd Evans, as an athiest, preaching better than most pastors! 😊 Well done.👍

[@jeantan9173]

You have revealed the spirit of Jesus. I agree with you. The GB forgets the greatest commandments when things come to their own interests.

[@jasonelliott3981]

That was such an insightful video. Thanks for taking the time to do the research and list the scriptures that debunk the cruel shunning practice of the watchtower. I was especially surprised to see that prior to 1952 the JW org viewed shunning as non biblical. No doubt they implemented it as a way to control its members in the organization.

[@ellyngaecki6910]

And I agree with you about the beauty of the parade of The Good Samaritan. It usually brings tears to my eyes.

[@bobbywright3701]

It takes a special character to argue a point to disprove another point, without truly believing in either, for the greater good. Bravo. You are right up there with Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens in my opinion

[@howardfowler2255]

Bobby Wright I find is slightly amusing that ,here,you have a non religious,atheist,apostate( excuse the label), using a non inspired collection of ' sacred'. texts to ' reason'. with a group of religious extremists to reconsider their highly revered leadership' s stance on a dehumanizing and family wrecking practice of shunning.I ask,Why waste your time trying to reason with people who exhibit Teflon reasoning( nothing reasonable sticks except what the leaders offer). But leave it to Lloyd to make some sense out of all this stuff! Peace.

[@bobbywright3701]

I suppose when you have been so affected by it and still being affected by it, you will then feel the need to help other trapped members. Although small in the grand scheme of things at the present, he does make a huge difference to some individuals I will testify. Without this video, many will be stuck in sweaty ball sack of insecurity. As his motto goes, he's giving a voice to the silent majority. And it's inspiring me to share my own story

[@howardfowler2255]

You make a good point. I should be less frustrated and cynical about my seemingly hopeless attempts to reach ( or enlighten) these misled religionists. Lloyd's videos have helped somewhat as have the many astute comments on this channel.Thanks for your reply.

[@bobbywright3701]

@@howardfowler2255 I personally believe that the more people get to hear about this cult, it will in time fizzle out. Stay strong brother 😜

[@bv9434]

Needed this

[@georgebrown8312]

You said it well, Lloyd. There is no real justification for shunning disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses, whether they disagree with the dubious doctrines of the Watchtower Society or whatever, and you are right to call shunning unscriptural. I am glad you pointed that out. Thank you for exposing the lies, hypocrisy, and false teachings of that cult.

[@herbs4life851]

Thank you for your videos Lloyd. Trying to leave this religion can be very stressful and upsetting for people and it's good to heard a level head helping people. People should know they are not alone. I got lucky and managed to fade out and moving away from the area where I lived helped.

[@sw4976]

Let me clarify this , so if a someone is married and lives in the same house and is dis-fellow shipped , would be pretty hard to not speak EVER, right . And of people have a business together , they have to speak , any one that CUTS off a family member bc they are dis-fellow shipped is an EXTREMIST and Jehovah does not say cut them completely off, they are supposed to stop discussing the bible and together until the said person stops what they have been doing wrong, but cutting off family is wrong and stumbling

[@christopherflux6254]

There is a biblical case for removing someone from a fellowship if they continuously and unrepentantly sin. BUT that doesn’t mean you can’t talk to them or socialise with them. It just means they can’t attend specifically religious gatherings until issues are resolved.

[@brettstoddard9504]

one of your best video's, I left the organization in 1997, except in extreme cases, (and even then it is very limited) have not spoke with my family since that time. Keep up the good work.........

[@audreyhepburn2038]

Great video as always xx

[@Freejw]

All humans, including JW's should have the right to stop practicing or change their religious identity. This highly personal decision should not result in the religion requiring family & friends, to avoid speaking to the members who leave the group.

[@vknadine]

If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you. Proverbs 25:21‭-‬22 ESV

[@CS-np2oo]

John...for as long as you can keep doing these videos and this channel. I've always liked the content top to bottom. My mom summer of 2017 ignored me the whole summer. Then in the fall...started talking to me again. We've talked somewhat normally ,but by normally I mean with Jehovah, service or meetings coming up. Other than that my mother can't seem to have a normal conversation. I even told my wife ( raised Catholic and whose family accepts me without ANY conditions) that my mom and have been getting along great. Now today my wife and I planned to go to dinner for her birthday and my mom calls me out of the blue..saying our communication is poor, I should not call her anymore because I don't go to meetings( I faded in 2011,2012 after getting baptized in 1996) she says I'm to blame for our poor communication. Mind you..my mom never calls. I always initiate calls and texts. She says qoute......"You broke up our family because you don't want to serve Jehovah." The Watchtower has simply wasted a good deal of my adult life and time.i have no siblings. Not many friends because most I made as a teenager were Dubs. My mom told me not to call my no witness uncles or family. Essentially cutting me off from everyone. Classic witness playbook. Thank you for your videos John. I've been watching this all afternoon. 20 years ago I never thought I'd despise witnesses, but I do. I just have no good thoughts or things to say about the at this moment. Sorry for the incoherent rant.

[@lynngardner3330]

This is another very informative video.Thank you! They don’t just shun you if your disfellowshipped . Once I told the elders that my father( an elder) molested and beat me for years my entire family started shunning me. Two of my brothers sent me an email telling me not to have any contact with them and both my mother and father did the same. I was the one who was abused and now I’m shunned for telling. My siblings take my fathers side.

[@johnnylavery5512]

Reasonable, logical, clear, concise, and thoroughly researched. Well done Lloyd. Thank you

[@ld-zj1bn]

Well done Lloyd. Thanks for your work. I'm always fascinated when you get the oddball comments that turn up - as if the person has just listened for 45 minutes and heard/seen nothing. 😏

[@charmainemarino4151]

Absolutely love this video, thanks so much for taking the time for just the days worth of research! ;) Its definitely enough to debunk it for sure!

[@supernova5903]

Beautiful video!! Thank you

[@juliebill6991]

The problem with this is that they don't say shunning is used as a punishment, they say it's to protect the rest of the flock

[@MrEricirene]

One of my favorite videos in recent memory that you have put out. You have so clearly shown how unbiblical this teaching really is, and have exposed the shunning teaching for what it truly is: a cult control tactic. I have just recently begun to experience shunning for the first time, and it’s not even family members (yet), it’s from guys that I considered to be very good friends. It stings, it hurts, and I know it’s just the beginning.

[@lisanoonan1267]

What a great article & video, Lloyd, as usual. Sad part is, as logical as it all is , even if a JW were to hear this, they truly would not ‘hear’ it! But, we know there are many that know things ‘just aren’t right’ & hopefully, ‘those’ will ‘hear’. Shunning is cruel & disgusting & I’m glad u have addressed it, once again. Thank you for all your hard work in putting this all together!

[@izabelarivera5211]

It all makes sense but JW's have been brainwashed to believe that by shunning they show love and mercy to the siinner😒

[@SlothyWoffy]

This is hands down one of your best ever videos Lloyd. We both may have totally different beliefs about God, however we can both relate to this and agree. Ironic if you think about it!

[@BrianForTheWin]

The problem with the Bible is that it’s such a mixed bag. They can justify shunning with scripture just as easily as you can debunk it. The point is not, “what does the Bible really teach”, but rather throw the hopelessly conflicted thing out.

[@bgirl1478]

OMG MIND BLOWN ! GREAT JOB ! GREAT VIDEO !

[@sw4976]

Let me clarify this , so if a someone is married and lives in the same house and is dis-fellow shipped , would be pretty hard to not speak EVER, right . And of people have a business together , they have to speak , any one that CUTS off a family member bc they are dis-fellow shipped is an EXTREMIST and Jehovah does not say cut them completely off, they are supposed to stop discussing the bible and together until the said person stops what they have been doing wrong, but cutting off family is wrong and stumbling

[@pataguilar9110]

found another scripture that I think it also relates to this video. ISAIAH 58:7 how it says “not to turn your back on your own flesh” how is that explained by a jw?

[@mbtofnj9180]

im sure while sitting down with them (the sinners) he was more than just eating with them. im sure he was teaching them about his Father giving glory to him

[@rickybobby2687]

If it’s true that Jesus was also teaching such sinners at meals, than that further shows that a Christian(someone trying to imitate Christ) would socialize with sinners even if the they were associated with JW’s. Just as Jesus was a “physician” to sinners who were born into God’s chosen dedicated people. JW’s should not shun “sinners” but love them and help them as a “physician”.

[@mbtofnj9180]

yes mr ricky that's what I was trying to say. could have not said it better myself ty

[@monikal.7998]

I don't think any of these verses would persuade JW to change their mind about shunning. Sad but true 😢

[@superfreeangels]

The problem with using the prodigal son story to prove to JW’s how they should treat their disfellowshipped loved ones is that they only equate the son returning home to a former member returning to the organization. If their disfellowshipped family member returns home, they won’t be welcomed, unless they’re repentant and ready to return to the organization.

[@LloydEvans]

I agree. They think of it in terms of returning to the organization rather than the more simple, obvious interpretation, i.e. be forgiving, family comes first.

[@howardfowler2255]

I might be mistaken,but don't apostates who repent and come back to the organization get put on probation with no honors bestowed on them,? Seems the prodigal son got the royal treatment and place of honor when he got ' reinstated'!

[@cowyemrsox]

Show ‘em how it’s done John!

[@christyb.2272]

I’m a former JW, and I just know what they would say in answer to you Loyd. They would say there is a difference between unbelievers (tax collectors) and someone who believed and yet sinned. Is this true? Could be. But with the prodigal son, he came home and left his bad ways behind him (I think) so it would seem if a JW came to his family and was sorry, he should be accepted back also without the shunning. To me, only a continual sinner with no regard for what God thinks of it should be expelled from the congregation. But as far as the shunning, You cannot help the person to change their ways if you shun them forever. And what about “ If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 john 1:9. That doesn’t say anything about expulsion and shunning, but again this is referring to a person who is sorry for their sins. However, the JWs consider some things sins that I don’t believe are. If a person leaves the organization because they see the error of the JW’s ways, that is not something they consider a sin to be sorry for. But the JW’s DO. So even their interpretation of ‘sin’ is different to begin with.

[@trina2100]

And my answer to that would be to remind them that Christ said he came for the "lost sheep of the House of Israel" (Matt 15:24) so they were indeed people who once believed and yet sinned. They were indeed people who were once in VERY close relationship with Jehovah and went astray. Christ didn't shun them.

[@CanadianLoveKnot]

Personally the best verse in the bible is 1 Corin. 4:1-5 where Paul rebukes the notion of "Human Tribunals" or "Judicial committees". And speaks against judging your brother, and that we should not even be judging ourselves, since Christ has been entrusted to judge the secret things of the heart.

[@litaf430]

I dreamed about that I saw Lloyd in real person and I was like a kid in a candy store. Truly he's my hero

[@mbtofnj9180]

its funny how the gentiles/ pagans know the difference. the gentiles accepted Jesus and not his own people

[@rodywithers3536]

Excellent commentary Lloyd - the emphasis on the words of Jesus is necessary - it was the apostle Paul who "complicated things" with his raft of conditional clauses, the most notorious in his letters to the Corinthian believers. Talk about a cult-like game changer that cults seize upon to justify their variant on shunning.

[@horchatapvpi]

I’m a 17 year old born into the religion and I question myself everyday if it’s the truth or not. My group of friends there all have the same doubts as me.. I feel like these videos not only educate me but will help me educate those whom are brainwashed into the religion.

[@ltorculture527]

Well done Lloyd, for highlighting the fact that shunning is NOT scriptural. There are clear or good grounds for putting people out of a congregation, but there are NOT biblical grounds for then shunning them. Despite the Jehovah’s Witness hierarchy claiming to The Australian Royal Commission and on other occasions that they don’t approve of shunning I know that they most certainly do approve of the practice, as it is implemented consistantly within numerous congregations. It is seen as something of a badge of honour, for people to faithfully ignore members of their own families. Like so many of the teachings of this cult it is NOT biblical, but rather extra biblical. You know ‘GOD SAID TO ME…’ Why is there a new found fervour for listening to and venerating individuals? I am speaking of the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Eight old men! I think that it’s worth stating Lloyd, Jehovah’s Witnesses have always derided Roman Catholics in particular, for their adherence to the proclamations of the Pope; there can surely be no difference made between Roman Catholics adhering to the Pontiff’s words and, Jehovah’s Witnesses complete willingness to accept everything, that those such as master communicator Stephen Lett tell them. Speaking of Stephen Lett, I really can’t help thinking that Forrest Gump has an older slightly more idiotic brother. The very concept of ‘New Light’ teaching is completely extra biblical, surely in biblical terms there can be no such thing as ‘New Light’ since the bible has not changed and Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to base everything they do on the bible… Jehovah’s Witnesses have not apologised for the fact, that they spent almost one hundred years misleading people into thinking that the “Good and faithful slave” was the 144,000; when as of 2013 it’s Lett and co. Finally Lloyd, people should mark well the name of Kathleen Hallisey, she’s the first lawyer to publicly take on and defeat the Jehovah’s Witnesses, in a case concerning historic child sexual abuse: A v Watchtower [2015] EWHC 1722 (QB). Unfortunately for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Kathleen Hallisey has a further fourteen cases in the pipeline - THAT’S 14 CASES - I wonder whether these impending court cases, are in any way connected to the increasing number of kingdom halls for sale in the U.K?

[@alexanderj2573]

Noteworthy, admirable video Lloyd as always.....I think it’s good to use the Bible at times, because there are many Ex-JW followers of Christ and Gods Word is real truth to them. I respect both sides of the God vs No God beliefs. Thanks

[@matthias5048]

In Chapter 11 of In Search of Christian Freedom Ray Franz does an excellent job of demonstrating that disfellowshipping as used by Jehovah's Witnesses is unbiblical.

[@chicknpi]

This could be a fabulous sermon for any Church... well done!

[@T120RT]

Simply amazing! Keep them coming, Lloyd!

[@marnieandme84]

Saw the movie apostate recently where the subjective of shunning is a major theme and🤭 all I will say is anyone who is interested needs to check this movie out a wonderfully acted and emotionally resonant even if you are not familiar with the faith

[@scottycunningham1413]

I know you're an atheist, but as a Christian this is an informative video for actual Christians to use when debating the JWs.

[@originaltremus5974]

In my 27 years of being a baptized JW, I never practice the shunning thing cause that wasn't me I think, I was dating a narcissist being a JW, his manipulation made my mind free, I had to be so prepared to handle him with his mind games ect. Once sitting in the KH watching a BC, I noticed that I didnt like the GB's expressions, their looks, their dress, and then I came to other conclusions why dressed like that, why is Jesus image a white man, why keep asking for money ect. etc. I just stop going to the meetings and when the elders talked to me I just told them what I think. I still believe in God, I am praying, telling my kids to do so.. like Matthew 18:20 says.. But to me the teaching made all of us to act. Like a narcissist, we are always right, nothing else matters,.. and the child abuse issue was the culmination of me being a JW, other that I hate the issue, I couldn't go to the field service anymore if someone confronts me with that, I had no answer and no way I stand for the truth for liars absolutely. Thx for your videos to clarify more things..

[@erenjeager4369]

And in those photos he shows they also have beards thoooo

[@1chadmon]

Outstanding video! Such great examples of Jesus’ own behavior that contradicted shunning on multiple occasions. Great points! Thank you as always!

[@c.c.2320]

Great video with a smart selection of scriptures to refute the harsh shunning policy. I'm late to the party, but I'd also like to bring out John chapter 9, which is the account of the man born blind who Jesus healed. Specifically, vss 18-34, where it shows that it was *the Pharisees* who had the practice of throwing people out. The man's parents were afraid to even talk to the Pharisees about the matter, because they were in fear of being cast out. And the formerly blind man was indeed thrown out, because they equated his not condemning Jesus as apostasy. Converesely, as pointed out a number of times in the video, Jesus did not teach casting people off -- he taught mercy and specifically condemned the Pharisees for being unmerciful.

[@ruth7er]

Peter reminded us of deceitful people inverting the letters of Paul, 2 Pet. 3:15, 16 - "Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

[@vknadine]

“A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. Deuteronomy 19:15 ESV

[@forsminer]

The Southern Baptist Church ladies' auxiliary group would not give assistance to a woman in the church because she was an unwed mother. My mother thought that was wrong, hypocritical, and un-Christian; so she left the church. Then she got involved with the JW's and pulled my father in (and eventually the rest of her family). I finally left after 40 years. On her deathbed she refused to acknowledge my presence or recognize me as her son. Behold the power of cultic indoctrination.

[@questioneverything2488]

This is excellent like lots of o research that you have done which is much appreciation.i was associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for 23 years a Pioneer and met my wife in the congregation but the reason my wife and I left was perhaps unusual because we were both disturbed in particular with the teaching of the devil ruling the world and demons seen as Fallen Angels who follow the devil. over the past 30 years I have done some serious research on this, an exegetical study of the Bible and I have collected profuse notes I believe the teaching of a real devil ruling the world is a very very serious issue and it is rarely addressed in my research I believe the Bible does not teach the angels fall, that Lucifer, satan the devil and demons are a product of human imagination. it crossed my mind after watching several of your programs that you may want to do a program on this because people are held tight in a vice we're Jehovah's Witnesses in the belief that any argument that comes forward that contradicts what they believe is from the devil. if you would like to see my notes quite freely I will send them to you but if not I will understand because you have many other issues to address. but thank you Lloyd for everything and all the research that you have done which is excellent. when I left I went to university and studied physics. I taught physics and sciences for 33 years and I am now retired and continuing my biblical research.

[@belladonna70]

thanks for all your hard work and research, you are amazing.

[@bayouboy6668]

I may have stated this before but your whole approach and demeanor is what got me watching your videos which led me to many others videos. Thank you for helping me to fully wake-up. I see the hypocrisy in the bible more and more but I still haven't been able to become anything but agnostic. But getting back to the shunning argument I mean i watched many videos that most make certain sense the shunning part of their teachings have always kept me from dedicating myself even when I was indoctrinated for much of my life. Now I spent much more time in the "world" since i am part of a giant group of underground metal heads from around the world. So I've spent decades doing this rather then at moments of a year or months etc throughout my 55 years where I tried to live as a JW. My biggest example that I've always found it hypocritical for them to ignore a "sister" who may be alone with an unbelieving husband and small kids to be ignored for whatever sin (so for example purpose only, smoking a cigarette etc). Yet someone that looks like me, full of tattoo's a goatee but was not ever raised around the JW culture (a complete stranger). I don't want to get side tracked on their unknown "sins" but let me just hint as example the worst one concerning children that they aren't "healed from". Yet they love bombing this person and in their stronghold "gods house" here again the "sister" can threaten all their faith?(I can even see not hanging out with her if they aren't blood family elsewhere from those walls, but if they are making effort those seem like the 1 sheep lost on the sabbath). I am a very rebellious person so even in my early 19-21 (when I was married 1st time) I still shook my friends hands or smiled to give them a heads up that they were making an effort.

[@sw4976]

Let me clarify this , so if a someone is married and lives in the same house and is dis-fellow shipped , would be pretty hard to not speak EVER, right . And of people have a business together , they have to speak , any one that CUTS off a family member bc they are dis-fellow shipped is an EXTREMIST and Jehovah does not say cut them completely off, they are supposed to stop discussing the bible and together until the said person stops what they have been doing wrong, but cutting off family is wrong and stumbling

[@toby9999]

My Mother was treated very poorly when she left the organization. The usual stuff... lies, misinformation, shunning, hate letters etc.

[@ManoloVintage]

The Samaritan's were shunned by Jews. Jesus said "go but do not go to the cities of the Samaritans because I came for the lost sheep of Israel only." BUT he never shunned them. He spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well and used that illustration of the good Samaritan to show that they should not look down on them or shun them.

[@TheDrinkingGourd]

Interesting the New World Translation has conveniently, removed John chapter 8. In this chapter we find the parable of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." As for Paul I have long said he was teaching something far different from the message of Yeshua. Paul was self-proclaimed as being 'Afflicted of The flesh.' When putting a fleshly affliction in context with the rest of the Bible, one could easily make the case Paul's Affliction was of a sexual nature. Considering he spent most of his time with men, often young men and had scathing views on women one could make a strong case, pehaps Paul himself was a homosexual. Also he hailed from Tarsus a hotbed of homosexuality. Paul was also a murderer and his selfprclaimed, unwitnessed insident of jus bumping into jesus on the road is highly suspicious. Therefore what a hypocrite! I will say, his writings show he was schooled in the esoteric teachings of the time and is some cases offered insight, but he often just plagiarized the words of christ with his own spin. I say be very cautious with the letters of Paul especially Romans chapter 13. peace and love.

[@TheDrinkingGourd]

Tari Blevins (1 Corinthians 14:34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. This is what paul is expecting from you. According to his word you shouldn't be allowed to respond to me. A drastic contradiction to the timeless unconditional love of Yeshua. John 4:7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the townto buy food.) 9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a]) 10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

[@johnnyhelbo2345]

You are bang on, brother. Paul was a Roman, steeped in the mystery religions of the day. He was never a pharisee. He was a bullshitter from the start. That's why he worked on the gentiles; they had no idea that he was lying about everything and taking scriptures out of context. He changed his conversion story 4 times. Christianity was more an invention of the Roman's to try and quell those trouble making Jews who wouldn't just shut up and put up with their brutal oppressive regime. "Pay Caesars things to Caesar". Yeah. Paint the messiah as a quiet turn the other cheek guy instead of a warrior, and the Roman's as a benign presence. The entire "new testament" was a smear campaign against the Jewish people. Still being used as such today.

[@misterauctor7353]

@@TheDrinkingGourd I suggest you read Daniel Wallace's work on 1 Cor 14.

[@nehpetsekedar9941]

I totally agree with you John. One more thought: II Tim 4:10. "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thesalonica; Srescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia" KJV. ( I am not sure if only Demas or all the three forsook Paul). This I had read many times as a JW but took a new meaning today: 1. Now Demas had turned his back on the Christian congregation. Did the Apostle Paul set up a judicial committee to disfellowship Demas? 2. If there was indeed a Governing Body in the 1st Century as the 8 men in New York will make us believe, well then Paul's letter has notified the Governing Body and all Christian Elders of Demas unrepentant gross sin. Did any of these authorities disfellowship Demas.

[@louieimai8656]

Keep up the good work. You are a modern day Ray Franz.

[@forwardpaunganwa4135]

Hi Lloyd. You talked about the verses of 2 Corinthians 2 vs 1-7 which talk about not causing excessive sadness to the guy who Paul had written about earlier as to be shunned... The interesting thing here is that what this guy had done was so outrageously crude and rather revolting that even those of the world were disgusted by it... I want to believe that he had been sleeping with his step mother! But as a JW you can be disfellowshipped for something as petty as smoking and they will still refer to 1 Corinthians chapter 5 as basis for your expulsion.

[@LloydEvans]

Great point! :)