150gr 30cal Badlands Bulldozer 2 RPM test in a 1:7 and

[@EdAb]

I've never seen anyone do this before on KZbin. Awesome!

[@simplemindedfella]

Here is a similar video I did a while back that you may enjoy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKe3naCllL1ob5Y

[@gearguidesguns571]

I have never seen such tests before, so I can appreciate your efforts here. Your results proved what I would have guessed. A 150 grain badlands is easily stabilized with a 1:10 twist (the badlands website suggests 1:11 or faster), so at any normal operating velocity, the stability will be more than good with a 1:10 twist. Also, it looks like you are doing your testing at quite a bit higher than sea level; bullets are more stable at higher altitudes and the stability factor actually increases at altitude, with the same BC. You can check this on Berger's website by changing the elevations on their stability factor program. Also wind drift decreases and retained velocity increases as altitude increases. Much of the long range hunting is done on the western plains and mountains at elevations from 5 to 10K, which means the actual ranges where bullets will drop below 2000 fps increase significantly. Thanks again for publishing useful and unique testing data. Bryan

[@kentuckywindage222]

Thank you! I questioned this back in a conversation we had in the comments sometime back. The original individual who brought this into question I can not remember the name or channel. Either way I thank you for your time and effort making these very informative video's. Keep'em coming!

[@simplemindedfella]

Your welcome There's a commonly believed myth out there that the fact that a bullet loses less RPM'S traveling through the air then being reduced in a load actually plays an effect on how the bullet performs after impact. I've been told by many that you can't simulate a shot at distance mostly because of the differences in RPM'S and thats just not the fact of the matter, yes you can. I primarily did this video via a specific request to show the differences in RPM'S at lower velocity than my other video that the velocity on impact is fairly high. In my last video I used 0.224 bullets shot out of 223 Remington 1:8 and a very old 222 Remington 1:14 Showing roughly an 80,000 RPM difference not having an effect on a bullets performance and in this video because of the twist rate on the barrels I'm only able to get around the 50,000 RPM difference but if a 50 to 80,000 RPM'S difference makes no difference in a bullets performance after impact, can a bullet maintain enough RPM'S in flight to cause enough of a difference compared to when shooting a reduce load to see how that bullet's going to perform. Unless we're talking about extreme high muzzle velocity's exceeding the 4000 fps mark as well as really tight twist barrels (Most likely the bullet will fly apart immediately after coming out of the barrel) then no you really can't and I just wanted to prove that to all the naysayers out there so they can be educated on the matter. One could play around with different tip designs and design a bullet to where RPM'S could potentially make a difference but when you're talking about the standard hunting bullets that are on the market it doesn't.

[@kentuckywindage222]

@@simplemindedfella So glad you did this video and the others. I may be wrong but pretty sure one of the, "keyboard long range shooting", Snipershide guy's threw this at me. The very same guy who told me, because I stated I couldn't afford a custom rifle, to take my poor a$$ to another site.🤣🤣🤣 Of which my response was money on the shot, mid way between us. Me with my stock Savage between 800 and 1000 yards. Cricket's is what I got. Anyway, I appreciate your work my friend. Keep'em coming 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@simplemindedfella]

@@kentuckywindage222 I have been surprised with the people who have reached out to me telling me some of the things that are said on forms (I'm not on any and don't want to be) out there about my channel and people known in the industry putting it down because of this yet not ever giving any facts just going off their assumptions. It is quite frustrating when people who should know and don't mislead people. They can't deny the facts of what's going on in those videos. I don't believe any of them will ever be man enough to reach out make proper apologies and quit putting down people that they disagree with especially when they can't back their opinion because the facts aren't on their side. Admitting one is wrong when they've been proven wrong after taking such hard stance on they have to be right, is it very difficult thing to do. I try not to let that stuff get to me and when I can I will compile the facts present them in a video like this and let people do what they want from there. I am just an average joe that stated testing bullets in this fashion because bo one else was and I can be wrong at times and I appreciate when people kindly make suggestions and point me in the right direction and then I will take the time to see if what they're saying is correct or not and if I've made honest mistakes I'll admit to them and make proper corrections. No ones perfect. Anybody these days can make themselves look professional and be anything but on a KZbin channel misleading people. I notice more of that and people blindly following when it comes to some of the long range hunting especially when there are people suggesting that they know better than an entire industry and you should use match bullets like the ELD-M's and such and not use bullets actually designed for hunting. (In the right setting ELD-M'S do work well as a hunting bullet) People really should take everything with a grain of salt and put it to the test if they feel something's off they should feel safe asking a question knowing they'll get a honest response back and people running KZbin channels should value the questions so it keeps them held to a higher standard making sure they are only presenting facts and not potentially misleaming people. As well as being courteous to people who may ask questions that seem a little obvious or stupid per se still be polite back treating everybody with respect it's really not that hard. Now I feel like I'm just kind of going on a rant so I'll stop happy holidays

[@kentuckywindage222]

@@simplemindedfella No rant really just honesty. I do use ELDM bullets in certain situations. Also bonded, interlock and monolithic. I've even used the old 100gr Winchester soft point in .243 for Whitetail here with great success. Your video's and a couple more like you have helped me decide on bullets I load. I've hunted since 9 years old and I'm 54 years old know. Outdoors has always been a part of my life. Supplying meat for the freezer. Learning something new and improving your knowledge should be part of ethics really. Type of bullet for hunting close, type of bullet for my long range hunting are different. In 6.5cm for me 130 gr Gamechanger to 400 to 500 yards and 140 ELDM past that. I use a Barnes 80gr ttsx @3400 fps from my 243 for its range. 308 I use a 175 SMK for target or varmint from 50 to my ability limits and a 168 A-max for white tail to 600 yards give or take. I took a shot on a varmint that walked on our range just as me and my shooting partner were preparing to packing up. I had just shot a good group at 1000 with the 6.5 creed, 4.5-27x50 glass, 140gr ELDM @ 2837 fps. My buddy ranged it 1060. I was still set up for 1000 yards. I dialed the dope and down went the critter. That bullet did an amazing job in the shoulder area and out the other side. Would I take that shot again.....maybe, depends on the elements. No wind like then maybe, windy probably not. Although we practice rain, sleet or snow, wind or not. Would I take that on a deer probably not. Although at 1000 it still has the energy of a 357 mag at the muzzle. Most of those who contest that shots lethality, wouldn't bat an eye at a 357 mag being lethal at 50 to 75 yards even though the energy and velocity would be less. Here you and I know isn't the problem. Its placing that bullet where it needs to be, to do its job at 1000. If I ever come across that shot on a deer I do know I made a 1060yard shot on a smaller target that did not walk away. It was DRT. In summary that situation was ideal. That has very little chance of happening again. The bullet however did its job in spades. Thanks again for your testing. Keep'em coming!

[@rangetime6779]

Good test! I'm not surprised with the results. With energy being equal the bullet expansion should be equal (which it was). The only real difference would be the number of revolutions in the gel. With 24" of penetration the 10" twist should make 2.4 revolutions and the 7" twist should make 3.4 revolutions. I think one could assume that more revolutions with the same expansion could do more tearing of the gel, but as you demonstrated it's insignificant.

[@gearguidesguns571]

I spoke to George, with Badlands and he had told me that you had done some testing also. From what he said, when you shoot a bullet at low velocity and close range, it will not have the same RPM as the same bullet shot at standard (higher mv velocity) and shot at longer range. Because a bullet with a mv of 2000 fps would not have the same rotation speed as a bullet shot at 3000 fps mv and then allowed to slowed down to 2000 fps at a longer range. I think as long as the twist rate is high enough to stabilize the bullet, the performance will be good at any operating velocity range. George said they will open up well down to 1700-1800 fps, so if you try to keep impact velocity at 2000 fps or higher, there should be no issues with a proper twist rate. when in doubt, always get one more twist rate than you think most bullets would need for stabilization. Also, keep in mind that most Stabilization rates are based and sea level and at higher elevations, bullets are more "stable" with the same twist.

[@simplemindedfella]

He is correct that a bullet in flight does not lose near the RPM's as compared to reduced loads matching velocities. (dependent on twist rate of the barrel) I have not had one Bulldozer 2 fail to shed it's tip and start to mushroom as of yet. The lowest I have gone is 1653 fps. Having a 50,000+ RPM difference in this video and an 80,000 RPM difference in another video with different bullets having no real noticeable or measurable difference in how a bullet performs after impact is a good indicator that as long as a bullet is stable RPM's really don't matter. (We know super high RPM's do as it can cause a bullet to fly apart coming out of the barrel)

[@gearguidesguns571]

@@simplemindedfella Yes, you assessment seems in line with what I know, but generally a monolithic or normal hunting bullets would not fail with a faster than needed twist rate unless it was a light for caliber weight, thin jacketed varmint or target bullet going at extreme speeds. I feel the bulldozer are a solid hunting and long range target bullet. They are a bit more fussy with seating depth and in reloading than a Berger for example, but i have had good success. Generally, I would look at seating them somewhere between 0.050 and 0.100 off the rifling (assuming this gives you magazine clearance). Most of my loads are 0.075 to 0.105 off, to both clear the mags and to give good accuracy. I haven't found that they shoot as well in that 0.010 to 0.030 range that many lead core bullets like. Unlike target style hunting bullets, you can shoot these at MV over 3200 fps with no issue and from your testing it looks like the 1700 fps is ok for expansion. This gives a shooter a bigger velocity operating range than a target style lead core bullet. Most Berger and Hornady loads are shot in the 2700 to 3100 fps range, with around 2800-2950 fps MV being ideal.

[@simplemindedfella]

@@gearguidesguns571 Yes, monolithics can handle far more stress then thin jacketed leadcore bullets. I'm planning on making the switch from leadcore to monolithic for almost everything because I feel more states are gonna do so and the federal government at some point will probably try to use the toxicity of lead to get bullets off the market so people just can't get them in the 1st place. I would just as soon be prepared and never need too then need too and not be prepared. It's really hard to beat the stopping power of the nosler acubond long range bullets that they list operating velocities of 1350 FPS to 3000 FPS which is kind of interesting the top end used to say unlimited but there's a few of us that tested that and found they do indeed have a limit depending on caliber that limit changes a little bit but 3000 FPS is a safe conservative across-the-board velocity for top end. I'm specifically looking at and need to do more testing with the 140 grain 0.277 caliber badlands bulldozer 2 for my 6.8 Western. For my style of hunting the badlands bulldozer 2 really is an ideal bullet and still works quite well at lower velocity's and extended ranges far beyond my skill sets. A marksman can hit their target well beyond 500 yds, a hunter should never need to. (Keyword "need". I still get lazy and do)

[@gearguidesguns571]

@@simplemindedfella The ABLR is quite a good hunting bullet and I would agree that around 3000 fps and lower, should be fine. They are typically heavy for caliber and generally, unless it is a 28 nosler or similar, most factory and reloads will be under 3000 fps. They lose more weight than a standard Accubond, but do hold more weight than ELDx, ELDm and Berger bullets, from what I have observed.

[@FC2ESWS]

Interesting test on RPMs. The 8.6 Creedmoor uses a 1:3 twist because they claim that it does more damage with the higher RPMs.

[@Snailz5]

Well they claim that as a marketing point. The twist is so fast because they want to launch a large enough bullet that they can get it subsonic without having to use reduced loads. Long heavy copper bullets need a lot of spin to stabilize when they’re going that slow and only monometals can take that much rotation.

[@tangogolf846]

Thanks for this test. I'm wondering if RPM has an effect on expansion of varmint bullets.

[@simplemindedfella]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKe3naCllL1ob5Ysi=xzD7EKuFSjPEIEpz

[@Snailz5]

Just curious if you’ve used these on game yet and/or took it out to long range to evaluate if the BC numbers seem right. Their claimed bc’s are such a big step ahead of other bullets that I’m just a bit worried they’re inflated. 30 cal 150gr bulldozer 2 has a BC to match Hornady’s 168gr ELD-M. Just seems a little suspicious. An all copper bullet that has BC’s way ahead of match bullets in the same class and it expands below 1700 fps and it’s not crazy expensive. It all seems a little too good to be true and that there’s some sort of catch I’m not seeing. Obviously the expansion is legit, but how have these guys cracked the nut that has been reduced bc in monometals where many larger bullet makers who have been making them for decades and employ many experienced engineers and ballistics could not come out with a bullet anywhere nearly as aerodynamic?

[@simplemindedfella]

I have only tested the BC'S with the 140gr 0.277 in my 6.8 Western out to 400 on paper and 1000 on gongs and such. Ranged, dialed, shot, and hit target so they have to be really close. I do plan on working up a load with the 150s in my 308 Winchester. Hopefully, I get similar results. I have not yet harvest game with them. Should this season as I plan on committing to the 6.8 Western.

[@anthonybanks5872]

Do u have a 270 if so like to see some bullet testing

[@gearguidesguns571]

The 128 Badlands worked amazing in my 270 Win (it is an old pre-64 M70 with standard factory twist). I am using 6.5 StaBall at 3210 fps and both animals I shot this year were 1 shot kills at 500 and 515 yards. Complete pass throughs in the chest, with a great wound channel. Neither animal went more than 25-30 yards.

[@simplemindedfella]

I currently have a 6.8 Western it's the only thing I have in the 277 caliber. I will be doing videos on the 0.277 caliber bullets in the future.

[@z987k]

@@simplemindedfella the new 150gr 277 looks like a perfect 6.8W bullet.

[@simplemindedfella]

@@z987k they do look like they would be a good one. I just worked up a load for the 140 gr for my 6.8 Western, need to get some field testing done next season.

[@z987k]

@@simplemindedfella I've got the 140gr 277 in my 270-08, haven't worked up the load yet though. The 150 eats into my powder space too much to use it on a short action in this case.