#154

Steven Levitt is a professor of economics at the University of Chicago and the co-author of the bestselling book Freakonomics and its two sequels. In this episode, Steve discusses his unlikely path to a career in economics and his view of the current state, and limitations, of the field. He also gives his unique perspective on contemporary issues including climate change, mental health in education, how to evaluate whether an experiment is ethical, decision making, horse racing, and much more.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - How Steve ended up in economics
00:06:20 - Current trends in the field of economics: macro vs. micro, usefulness of models, and the relationship between data and theory
00:17:15 - Revisiting what Steve wrote about climate change in SuperFreakonomics, and why it’s unlikely to be solved with behavioral change
00:26:50 - The consequences of a blurred line between climate science and advocacy
00:31:40 - Answering climate questions with a “Manhattan Project for climate change”
00:40:35 - Steve’s reflections on his career path and how he found his way by being himself
00:55:25 - How Steve came to write Freakonomics (and its sequels), and the topics which caused the most controversy
01:14:35 - How Steve came to appreciate mental health through parenting, and the need to emphasize mental health into the education system
01:35:30 - Why people are bad at making decisions
01:44:40 - Deliberating on why horse racing times haven’t advance much in decades
01:55:30 - Reducing the impact of negative emotions by observing the world free of language
02:01:30 - Changing our thinking about what it means to conduct experiments ethically
Show notes page: peterattiamd.com/stevelevitt/
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 25 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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[@PeterAttiaMD]

in this episode we discuss: 00:00:00​ - Intro 00:00:10​ - How Steve ended up in economics 00:06:20​ - Current trends in the field of economics: macro vs. micro, usefulness of models, and the relationship between data and theory 00:17:15​ - Revisiting what Steve wrote about climate change in SuperFreakonomics, and why it’s unlikely to be solved with behavioral change 00:26:50​ - The consequences of a blurred line between climate science and advocacy 00:31:40​ - Answering climate questions with a “Manhattan Project for climate change” 00:40:35​ - Steve’s reflections on his career path and how he found his way by being himself 00:55:25​ - How Steve came to write Freakonomics (and its sequels), and the topics which caused the most controversy 01:14:35​ - How Steve came to appreciate mental health through parenting, and the need to emphasize mental health into the education system 01:35:30​ - Why people are bad at making decisions 01:44:40​ - Deliberating on why horse racing times haven’t advance much in decades 01:55:30​ - Reducing the impact of negative emotions by observing the world free of language 02:01:30​ - Changing our thinking about what it means to conduct experiments ethically

[@kaine3805]

This is the most well produced “zoom podcast” I’ve seen. Great job. very interesting to hear you talk about different disciplines than just medicine and health

[@christianhemmerich4760]

Love the new video format!

[@bones23jones]

Great conversation!

[@jackie6786]

This is gem. Levitt is gem. Disagreement between facts and implication of facts.

[@ironmanix2835]

Dr. Attia, you look younger and younger every time I see a new video of yours. I've been following and listening to all of your advice, thank you!

[@mauiswift6391]

Great show !

[@TheEunoiaProject]

Really great video! We want to make positive content just like you!💜

[@kycezaiter4012]

Yea I like watching the videos. I appreciate this

[@bennguyen1313]

Would have liked to have heard why Steven hated getting his PhD in economics. Regarding the 37m mark on risk-management, I recommend the interview with Megan McArdle on the recent EconTalk with Russ Roberts. They discuss how it may be more beneficial to spend on an adaptive / generic infrastructure, than in preparation for any particular world crisis.

[@gabrieldiaz-aylwin5453]

Phenomenal content, Peter. Love the video format.

[@aspiretoinspire9679]

mental health matter more focus cause any negative toughts can change economic descision

[@AlanWil2]

Cheers!!!

[@joenatale5513]

13:10 "All models are wrong; some are useful" -- it was George Box!!

[@ThePearguru98]

Great video man, I love your video podcasts!

[@igorsherman6407]

It is so refreshing to hear the discussion of global warming without someone trying to brainwash you into believing that there is only one solution - to make everyone poor.

[@nedhill1242]

I think the secret to Secretariat was the rumor I have always heard that his heart was enormous compared to the average thoroughbred. After hearing Peter talk to Joe Rogan about lactic acid and about the swimming he used to do and fighting through the pain and the oxygen deprivation all plays into the fact that Secretariat had this heart that was so much bigger and stronger. The heart is our engine! Another example of this was Bob Beeman in the ‘68 Olympics. He shattered the long jump record and it was 23 years before that record was broken. Bobby Beeman himself never came close to jumping that far again.

[@contrerasmcr100]

This content is free,,,,fooking FREE!!!

[@chicstyleandawinningsmile3085]

Nice upload, thanks for sharing! See you around! 🎧🎵😎

[@surfreadjumpsleep]

what i really want to know is... what kind of videoconference setup is that? Is there a free p2p video over IP app that will do that sort of resolution (yes I realize you probably need 50Mbits+)

[@indy1440]

Really liking the youtube interviews.

[@TheShumoby]

I agree with Peter. College sucks.

[@puneetpuri2758]

I was lazy so let's just go be an economist

[@erastvandoren]

He is still too lazy to actually look into the climate "science".

[@jethomas5]

He went with microeconomics because macroeconomics is too big and complicated to actually solve problems. Then he thought he had a simple solution to climate change for the world ecology, far bigger and more complicated than any macroeconomy.

[@JayEs31]

good comments about facts should be reported separate from conclusions. totally 10000% agree. then you could do different takes and explain the thinking. most journalism is narrative driven and very biased and not even attempting to be objective.

[@JrMellem]

I can’t help but think that these two highly intelligent, successful good folks could have some level of difficulty being totally in touch with problems of the bulk of humanity with their much different situations.

[@nedhill1242]

Where he makes his mistake about climate change first is he has been drinking the Kool-Aid and thinks that man is causing it and that it is an immediate crisis. Even people like Bjorn Lomborg I have debunked that and said that man face is far bigger problems than global warming and climate change and that any real harm from those things or not in 12 years or even 20 years but more like 100 years into the future and think about how much science is going to evolve over the next 20 or 30 or 50 years and create solutions for these problems. Where he also makes a mistake is he says capitalism and economics have not been good at solving these type of problems. That’s nonsense. Climate change is like Covid. It is a problem that the elites and governments and politicians have used and manipulated to be a far greater problem than they really are. Why? Two reasons: economic gain and political power. dr. Pierre Cory is part of the FLCCC which has been doing tons of research on ivermectin and there are literally dozens and dozens of studies that have been done globally that show ivermectin has a very high percentage of success at preventing and curing Covid. Ivermectin as a drug that’s been around for decades and is very cheap. Why are people not talking about ivermectin with the government and politicians and pharmaceutical companies and people like Bill Gates? Because there’s no economic gain to be had from finding a Covid solution among drugs that we already have that are readily available and inexpensive. The way you get rich and the way you gain political power is through expensive new solutions by way of crony capitalism. Most prescriptions today are written for drugs that are actually approved by the FDA for something else but they are used for off label reasons like mild forms of anti-depressants as sleep aid. Dr. Pierre Cory Correctly has pointed out that there is not a government organization anywhere looking at current medications that could be used for Covid. Every solution being looked at is something new and expensive. Why? So politicians and the elites can work together to manipulate the economy and get rich and gain political power. I’m not a conspiracy theorist in general, but the axiom follow the money never fails when it comes to something controversial or complex People primarily on the left and the mainstream media and corporate and academic elites will always take a crisis and manipulate it for political power and economic gain. We see it with Covid we see it with climate change. It’s crony capitalism not capitalism. I apologize in advance for any typos or errors because I am using voice dictation to post this while driving. PS: I love how skeptical Peter is about things and how he’s not scared to push back. We don’t have journalism anymore we have biased propaganda by the media. We have bias in science. We are being failed by the media and by scientists. Two professions that by nature is supposed to be skeptical rather than creators of propaganda! But both have been transformed and destroyed over the last 30 years because of money! And also as a tool for political gain..

[@bironbrunelle5186]

In conclusion you forgot the goal of revamping the education system. Interesting, I wonder if mental health tools can actually be thought to the young ones. Yes, relaxation and such but it is having matured and experienced that we can learn from the trauma. Good goal though, I certainly agree that society has much to gain in supporting mental health care. I often suggest that if it was provided free of charge society would save money.

[@ReversingDiabetes]

This is an important question: how to motivate people to make significant investments *before* they're facing extreme pain and suffering. And I don't know the answer because... I don't think I could convince the me of 20 or 30 years ago to make the changes I made once I was literally dying. But it deeply concerns me as I don't *want* anyone to be as sick as I was' prevention is so much easier and cheaper. But HOW?

[@paulsun19]

Peter---please clean your tv

[@nedhill1242]

I’m 55 years old and I can tell you something I have learned in my life that the older I get the more I find to be true. The harder someone tries to convince me I’m wrong about something and the more extreme their methods get the more I know they’re lying! The planet is too hot? Based on what? I can take you up and down the East Coast and show you mountainous dunes that are well inland created when the oceans were much higher and the seas were far more violent. I can take you 70 miles inland in South Carolina on a large lake and show you oyster shells in the lime stone that was created millions of years ago. South Carolina has what’s called the “sand hills” 70 to 90 miles inland that were beaches millions of years ago. The oceans have been significantly higher than today. The planet has been significantly hotter than today. The earth is currently in one of the coolest periods in earths history. And of course temperatures have been climbing because we had a mini Ice Age only a few hundred years ago. Peter often talks about anti-aging and longevity because that is what his expertise is in. But even Peter knows that you can’t stop someone from aging. It’s called the lifecycle for a reason. Everything is born evolves and then dies. All life has a cycle. We can manipulate it we can slow it down but we cannot stop it. The same is true for climate change. Planets have a lifecycle. Planets are born they evolve and then they die. Climate change for a planet like earth is like aging for a person. It’s a natural part of the process. Of course man harms the environment. And man contributes to some degree to climate change. But man is not causing climate change in man is not the most significant part of climate change. And even people that believe in man-made climate change like Bjorn Lomborg admit that it’s not a crisis. It’s something that we need to adapt to which is what humans do best. The two things that the left uses to try and prove climate change is the hockey stick graph and models. Well the models despite have an algorithms created by the scientist that use the models and despite cherry picking and manipulating the data have never come close to be an accurate. New York City should be underwater right now based on Al gore and the climate models from the 1990s. Despite all the manipulation they can conjure, they can’t get the models to come anywhere close to do in what they are predicting. The hockey stick graph was simply a lie. Michael Mann created the hockey stick graph and despite the fact that the main stream media and the Democrats have been pushing this data point for decades, the reality is that graph has been debunked repeatedly. Very few people could even tell you how they created the graph. I can. It was done using growth rings on trees. And they looked at climate and growth of trees going back hundreds of years. Michael man was not the only scientist at the time doing this research. But he is the only scientist that came up with A hockey stick graph. All the other scientist doing the same research at the same time came to a completely different conclusion. Why? Simple. Unlike Michael man they did not manipulate the data. Michael Mann conveniently left off the most recent 34 years of data. Yet for some reason the media, for whatever bias they had, latched on to Michael Mann”s data and used it to promote their propaganda. I’ll give you another example. The evidence is now overwhelming that the food pyramid is upside down. That fat does not make us fat. Sugar is what makes us fat. You can find tons of science now online proving that all we need to eat is fat and protein and all the benefits of a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting, but the government is still pushing a high carb diet. The government is still pushing a low-fat diet. The average person still thinks fat makes you fat and that cholesterol is bad. People like Jillian Michaels are out there making a fortune telling you that calories are calories and that’s all that matters as you burn more calories than you eat. But this is not new to science. The Germans were doing this research back in the 1920s. The science has never ever shown that fat was bad or that sugar and carbs are good. So how did this happen? Because of Ansel Keys manipulated the data and somehow convinced the government and the media that his data was correct and everyone else was wrong. And look at obesity and diabetes globally today because of that propaganda. Man is not causing global warming and the only reason so many climate scientist say it is is because they’re all getting their money from the government. The Clinton administration started withholding funds for anyone that did not say that man is the primary cause of global warming and climate change. Go find any scientist that is not funded by the government that works with climate change and they will tell you man is not the primary cause. The Only people saying man is causing climate change are the people that are being funded by the government. Judith curry, you can watch videos of her on KZbin, she was a tenured professor at Georgia Tech. She was the head person of the IPCC at the UN when the famous climate change report came out where supposedly 97% of scientist said man is causing climate change. Actually the report never said that. The report actually said 97% of scientist believe climate change is happening. There was no consensus on the cause. Judith Curry left her tenured position at Georgia Tech because of how she saw that there was no conversation there was no room to have a nuanced conversation or even discuss alternatives are the science. She said it had become a religion. She is one of the worlds foremost climate scientists. And she says there is no proof of man-made climate change and we don’t even know to what degree man is contributing to climate change. Again you can see her all over KZbin. The media and the politicians on the left that want to use man-made climate change to radically alter our economy and take control of our government are lying their asses off and they have painted themselves into a corner. Look at how much louder and more desperate they are getting. Why? Because three or four years ago they said we had to make radical change in 12 years or the planet is doomed. They know they only have about 5 to 8 more years to make radical change because none of their predictions are coming true and more and more people are becoming skeptical as they should. Thus they are getting more desperate and radical with their methods. Like I said at the beginning. The more desperate the more angry someone gets to convince me of something I know they’re lying. Because if truth were on their side all they would have to do is present the evidence. But their evidence is all lies and bullshit! It’s like dumping a girlfriend because you caught her cheating on you. When you confront her she gets mad and Violet because she knows her life has been exposed. She calls you the crazy one. She attacks you because you’re the one that’s cheating not her. It’s human nature folks. People that believe in truth and honesty don’t need to lie and manipulate the data. When the facts are on your side all you have to do is present the facts. That part about Geo engineering, about putting the sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere, stupid fucking idea! I can’t believe he even talked about that. Michael Shellenberger was recently on Tucker Carlson talking about this. This is being pushed by Bill Gates. Comet scientist and physicist are overwhelmingly against this! It is insane. Scientist warned us about nuclear war for decades because it would create nuclear winter. Doing this would be artificially creating nuclear winter. We know very little about this yet Bill Gates wants to do it. Bill Gates is not even that smart when it comes to technology. He was the business side of Microsoft. He was the businessman the negotiator the marketing genius. Paul Allen was the man behind the technology. And they didn’t even create dolls. They bought it for $25,000! Then sold it as if it was their own technology. Now suddenly the media acts like this guy is a genius when it comes to vaccinations and medicine and climate? Yet real doctors dealing with Covid every day in hospitals Are silenced by big tech and KZbin and shouted down by the WHO the NIH & CDC?! Why? Politics. Propaganda. Real doctors are talking about as if they are morons why I got like Bill Gates you didn’t even graduate from college and who is not a doctor or a scientist you seem to be some benevolent genius about these things. Folks you’re being lied to and the more desperate Knigge get the bigger the lies and manipulation and propaganda. Whether it’s Covid or climate change or any other hot button topic of today when you hear the media and Democrats and even some scientist saying the science is settled you know they’re lying. Science is never settled. Science is always growing and evolving. Carl Sagan sad science is the art of getting it less and less wrong! No legitimate scientist whatever use the term settled science. These are scientists being paid by the government like an expert witness being paid in a High profile trial. It reminds me of a great episode of Northern Exposure when Joel and Chris had a debate about light and the evolving nature of science around light. How it evolved from particles to waves to waves made of particles. And each step along that evolution some scientists thought that they had proven what light was and that the science had been settled using today’s vernacular.

[@nedhill1242]

Please forgive me in advance for any errors in my post above. I’m driving and posted these using voice dictation, which is typically a little bit messy and ugly thanks to auto correct and the inability to go back and edit while driving. I hope to edit this when I get home but if I don’t get a chance please forgive me in advance for the errors.

[@johnhollow4399]

Brilliant!

[@dakota9650]

You’re not as smart as you think you are buddy