1569: From Mormon Prepper to Ex-Mormon - Emma Pt. 3

[@smockedtop9720]

I was absolutely BLOWN AWAY by Emma’s knowledge of clear boundaries (especially assuming it was pre-therapy)!!! “I will not be taking phone calls or visitors,” “I am going to work and we can speak after,” and, “You can send me an email and I will respond tomorrow.” PHEW!!!! That is something I, someone who has been in therapy for 7 years am still working on. I hope we get to read some of your books Emma, all the best wishes for a beautiful and full filing life ✨

[@Gjigfvniyf]

I was thinking the exact same thing when she was talking! Whether before therapy or not, although from the context I also think she did this pre therapy, she’s on an amazing path towards healing

[@cindydalton9608]

I was thinking the same thing. I am 60 years old and I have just learned to set boundaries and learned to say No and it's ok. I was a bad people pleaser for all of those years denying me to be my true self.

[@niteotter]

Emma, I’m 71 yrs old and didn’t realize I was a lesbian until I was 30. I have made bad decisions in my life, but my wife isn’t one! Thanks for your encouragement for young gay people. ❤️🏳️‍🌈

[@grumpyveterannewsservice8605]

Nobody would "choose" to lose their family, their community, and everything else they have known.

[@desiadaven]

Emma! My heart goes out to you so much. People who experience what you have about coming out, family rejection and the church not being a safe place for you was a large reason why I left. You are loved. You are enough. And, if you need more family, we live in Davis County and would love to have a new sister! So much love for you and gratitude for your bravery in sharing.

[@ddalgi-hime-07]

I was living in Davis county when the family i was living with kicked me out after i came out :(

[@jed4131]

@@ddalgi-hime-07 I’m sorry you had to go through that. Hope you’re doing better now.

[@adriennebaer5837]

I didn’t figure out I’m bi until after my shelf broke at 27. It’s super easy to not realize as a woman in our culture. My parents were angry when I came out haven’t said one word about it to me since. Lots of love to you and I’m so glad you’re free ♥️♥️

[@waterfall_brook]

*HUGS* I rationalized away my queerness for a long time, even though I was a fierce defender of gay rights. I remember actually saying to a family member (I was about 26, I think?) "No, I'm not gay! Everyone thinks Kim Basinger's film-room scene in "9 and a Half Weeks" is super hot." As bisexual, I think it's harder to recognize, because you can say "Oh, like guys, so I'm fine." I waited until my father had passed away to come out to my family, and even now, they will say, "But you're with a guy, so you aren't bisexual." Uh, yeah, still bi, just in a committed het relationship. I'm a never-mo- I cannot imagine what those of you in the Church have gone through. :(

[@adriennebaer5837]

Yesss! My attraction for men kept me nice and safe from admitting my attraction to women for a long long time. When I told my husband he was like “I thought we already knew that” 🤪 That pesky homosexuality won’t stay hiding for any of us 😆🌈

[@wendyreynolds8264]

All I can say John, is that Emma's whole story, totally and completely blew me away! Is it not 2022? Do we live in a free country? WOW!

[@function0077]

As an ex-mormon father, I love my lesbian daughter. I didn't leave Mormonism because of this, but it is one reason why I will never return to Mormonism. I hope Emma continues to have success finding loving souls to connect with and love.

[@martiwillis1848]

So very glad this ended with Emma smiling and speaking about a future. We all wish for her life to come to be filled with happiness and love.

[@marcellacruser951]

You are a study in courage, sis. Any time you feel afraid, come watch this... see yourself unfold and get real. You are resilient, honest and completely amazing! Thank you for sharing you story. John is 100% right. This is going to make a huge difference in the lives of so many people. You said that in your crisis you felt the need to strengthen your testimony... it seems to me that you found your true testimony in your own authenticity.

[@alexandraengland3274]

It's super super normal for women not to know they're gay until later. Friendships are allowed to be more intense for women. Women aren't necessarily expected to initiate sexual things either, so some think tolerating it is how everyone feels.

[@not.samcooke]

in watching the other two parts, i was thinking about how dissociated Emma has been through all of this, and it’s honestly heartwarming to hear her know this about herself and accept that this is where she’s at in the healing & growth process. it’s okay to NOT cry as much as it is okay to cry - in time, the tears will come or they won’t. either way, you’re fucking killing it Emma and i hope this interview was a positive experience for you 💜

[@Indi_Waffle_Girl]

Waiting three whole days to finish the story was so long! And I didn't want it to end! Emma you're amazing and I'm so grateful you shared you story. 💛💛

[@nicolemillar6822]

I’m a non Mormon from the other-side of the world (Western Australia) I’ve watched a few episodes and learnt so so much. And wow this series I’ve watched in 2 days. I’m a counsellor and student psychologist. This is invaluable to my learning and helps me understand another life deeply and compassionately. Thank you Emma, John and Callah. I appreciate this and the deconstruction John does for us layman people.

[@FatherVampire]

There's a lot in her I can relate to: Her extremely religious parents, her dedication as a missionary, her later faith crises and studying her way out. And also like her, I too am agnostic. Have so much respect and appreciation for her and who she is as a person. She is an amazing woman and a very clear thinker. How I hope the day comes when her family realizes this, too, and realizes how foolish and short-sighted they have been. She's absolutely right... while they are dead wrong.

[@katherinehinds7490]

So smart, so intelligent, gifted with equanimity. You have gained your true authentic self. You don’t need family who can not grow with you Emma. You have a wonderful future. The world needs you.

[@caseybarton2116]

I definitely related to Emma’s experience with her parents choosing not to financially support her once she chose to be honest with them. This happened to me as a 17 year old who chose not to serve a mission, my mormon parents made it clear that I would never see a penny again if I didn’t serve a mission. This type of selective love/acceptance/support is so dangerous!!

[@chevonbayless798]

As a mother I truly cannot comprehend not supporting your lgbtq children. It just does not make any sense. No matter your religion, your kids are your kids! 🌈🌈🌈

[@alesejackson775]

You are wonderful, Emma! I would be so proud to call you my daughter ❤️

[@allychu19]

Emma is an amazing story teller and so, so courageous! I trust she will be successful as an author. Amazing episode!

[@dianethulin1700]

I find it ironic that your parents accuse gays as just making it up to get attention and then turn around and act in ways that are attention getters. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. My heart goes out to you! I left the church with no guidance at age 17 and am very happy now! Keep faith that with time your life will work out for you! 🙏

[@AMFibers]

"How did you not know what you're attracted to?" I grew up in a non-religious household and didn't realize I was bisexual until I was 24. And even then I continued to question if I was bisexual "enough" for two years. Looking back, there were signs as early as 10 years old that I was attracted to girls, but I just thought all girls had the feelings I had. I thought I was recognizing attractive women, not that I was attracted to women. So idk John. I'm not a researcher, but based on the women I've spoken to, a lot of us don't realize we're queer until we are adults.

[@mormonstories]

It’s totally normal! I ask sometimes when I know the answer, but so that listeners can learn.

[@Smileygld123]

So PROFOUND - Being herself made the suicide ideation go away, and she was fine. Love you, Emma. (HUGS)

[@jameswalberg3265]

Each of the three parts is unique and powerful. Parts 1 and 2 are jaw dropping. This is one of the MOST shocking of all the Mormon Stories trilogies. Emma has lived three different lives in such a short time. Thank you for sharing these three different compelling stories.

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. So many moments of recognition. At 70 the onion is still being peeled. Blessings. 🕊

[@waterfall_brook]

I guess I heard that these kinds of preppers exist, but I guess I really had no idea about the insanity behind it. Emma, you are so courageous and amazing for getting out and finding yourself. Never let anyone tell you otherwise.

[@lilianastone9598]

I cannot wait to read her book!

[@asdyle]

Emma I'm so sorry. You deserve love and happiness. You probably have already started forming your "family", but you will have a "family" that loves you for you.

[@susanweaver6698]

My heart breaks, if you need a new family you are welcome here.

[@desiadaven]

Amen!

[@kacycatartist]

Susan! You are a beautiful person with a big open heart - Thanks

[@BrigitteDiessl]

This is one of the most heartbreaking stories I have listened to. Emma, you are so gorgeous and the family that left you behind is missing out. I don't live in the States but I have a gay daughter who I love now just as much as I did the day she was born. I couldn't bear to not have her in my life. If you ever come to New Zealand, there is a family here, happy to welcome you in and show you around and open you up to a gorgeous community (gay and straight.) Take care and look after yourself and your girlfriend. My daughter was also late to emotional connections because she spent the years from 16-22 battling Anorexia. She is almost 25 and she and her girlfriend have been together 18 months and she has always known she was gay. xx

[@tessa2568]

Thanks for sharing your story Emma! It was so compelling and you told it so well. I’m so sorry for how poorly your family is behaving. I wish you the best in your future and am so happy you can live authentically.

[@AChickandaDuck]

So much love to you, Emma. You’re strong and smart and have a beautiful life ahead of you! It’s your family’s loss that they have chosen not to be a part of it. ❤️

[@chrispierce9699]

Great job Emma, you are a beautiful and courageous woman. My heart hurts for you and all the painful things you have endured. I wish you all the best life has. I think your future is bright and the best is yet to come. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@kaylaly7811]

My heart goes out to Emma. Thank you for sharing your story, it resonates with me so well, in the way when you talk about others who have a similar story as yours, but have a different outcome. I left the church around the same time as you did, but I left by myself. I have others in my ward that left around the same time as myself, but they all left with their spouses. I get jealous seeing how happy they are having done that with their spouses, but here I am struggling with this alone. I'm stuck trying to figure out how to continue to have a relationship with my husband, kids, parents, and siblings who are still in the church. I also get upset hearing about how loving people still are towards those who have left, but I get attacked by those same people, because I choose to post issues with the church and talk about my heart break. They say I'm causing contention, but really all I'm doing is talking about how the church has hurt me, and torn my family apart. 💔

[@jesse1008]

This was such a powerful episode ! Emma you are such a strong person and have so much respect for you. Such an honor listening to your story.

[@Turandot29]

Behold Emma’s family: Christian love in action.

[@johnhorner1969]

Emma, you are so amazing and strong and wonderful. You are worthy of feeling loved and I’m so sorry with the relationships that have been undermined by you choosing to live an authentic life to what you believe. You have a giant family of post Mormons that feel you and understand. Sending lots of love and please reach out if you need anything from us. You’re great. I hope you can feel safe and happy in your life and build new and meaningful relationships.

[@hatchet1013]

I too, didn't realize that I was also into women until I was 26 and once I realized it, everything made sense 😅

[@businessbubba]

Emma, your story has me in tears. Thank you for sharing this. I admire your courage. I’m so sorry for the pain you have gone through. Your comments about conditional love were very important for me to hear and to relate to.

[@kelseyj4018]

❤❤❤ Thank you so much for sharing your Mormon story Emma!

[@alexasmaellie3764]

Omg!! That was my first episode of Mormon stories that I listened to as well…. Changed my life

[@danceluvr92217]

I'm not a mom (hopefully one day) but if I was I can't imagine ever a) being put in a position to choose between supporting my child living their truth and God, and b) choosing God over my kid in that scenario. If my kid is "going to hell" for being who they are, I'm coming right along with ya kiddo. See ya never God. Shame on her parents. They have made a vile, despicable choice. I hope they see the truth and light before it is too late.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

I’m a mom, and I can’t imagine disowning or shunning my son for disagreement or sexual preference. If he had been gay, I would likely have welcomed a son-in-law instead of the wonderful DIL he married. It’s his life, and all I want is for him to be happy.

[@LoudLeo3]

My heart is just broken for you 💕 I hope you continue down the path toward healing, you are an absolutely amazing person and you know yourself better already than most people do in a lifetime.

[@scottbrandon6244]

This is a good example of what not to do if you are a parent of a child who identifies within the LGBTQ spectrum. Children are not to be shunned by LDS church members. There is research showing that 20% of active LDS youth identify somewhere within the LGBTQ spectrum. If the church does not want to lose these youth there will have to be some constructive way for them to remain in the church over the long-term.

[@bernicebrown2527]

LGBTQ are born that way.God made them and he loves ALL his children.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

How awful that the Christian “love” is so harsh and judgmental 😢 Your strength is incredible.

[@tonia.5861]

Sadly, this is religion and has nothing to do with “love”.

[@JeffDayPoppy]

A stop payment on a check to help with medical expanses?? Woww.... I wish I could put a stop payment retroactively on all my tithing checks. 😅

[@JeffDayPoppy]

@@tedgarrison8842 Oh no. Calculating it can only be disappointing for everyone. Not advisable lol.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Aren't Americans suing people for much less, such as coffee cups being hot? How about getting your tithing back based on false truth claims?

[@CocoKmimi]

Emma is incredible. I’m blown away by her ability to identify with her critical thinking self. Even when her beliefs were aligned with the Church in her younger years, her intuition was so strong when people in the Church were hypocritical. As a non member, I wonder if it is easier for members who do not have strong connection with self or ability to critically think. It seems easier to coast along in LDS life if you neglect organic self connection. My greatest hope for Emma is that she continues to live an authentic life which gives her the love she deserves. What a strong smart young lady!!!!

[@bernicebrown2527]

Thank you Emma, i am non-Mormon & have been listening to Mormon podcast for a long time now. I just hope my niece wakes up someday soon and sees Mormonism for what it is. You are an amazing woman i would be proud to be your mom. I pray you get a relationship with your family and they can see you as we do. All the best in thr future. I also hope you are able to have children, a child with two moms would be one lucky child❤😅

[@function0077]

I just made myself a white Russian (I should probably call it a white Ukrainian) in honor of Emma's first alcoholic drink and because I like the Big Lebowski! Enjoy life and drink responsibly!

[@steveng.clinard1766]

"14 year olds, Dude."

[@lynnwalton814]

What a courageous young woman.

[@JP-JustSayin]

If I'm not mistaken there are actual conference talks from the 60's, 70's, and 80's where the brethren (Kimball, Packer, Oaks, and probably others) teach SPECIFICALLY that homosexuality WILL NOT OCCUR in children that are "properly" parented. ... so Emma's parents reacting defensively like this and behaving like her identity harms them, definitely IS authentic mormonism ... "It's an older code sir, but it checks out" It's so sad. Thanks, Emma, for sharing your story.

[@Spungle15]

If you could point out a few specific examples, that would be fantastic (I want to arm myself with these kinds of things so I can easily reference them in the future)

[@JP-JustSayin]

@@Spungle15 well shoot... now you have caught me out. I heard a bunch of these talks in a recent podcast I "watched" on KZbin... but I watch so much (and a lot of it is back catalog) that now I can't find the references. I will keep looking and make another comment if I find the sources. ... or maybe sone one else with a better memory can chime in and save me from over-claiming.

[@Spungle15]

@@JP-JustSayin no rush! If you find them, just make another comment here :)

[@JP-JustSayin]

@@Spungle15 kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5qlfoVsfq-Dj7s Here is a link to one of the ones I was thinking of. Time stamp is 3 minutes and 23 seconds.

[@Moksha-Raver]

The hatred of the Brethren for the LGBTQ community really comes home to roost, it removes the spirit of Jesus from Mormonism and leaves something well worth fleeing. I assume that young people of good conscience will continue to leave.

[@johnhorner1969]

By their (phobic) tendencies shall ye know them……. The church is destroying itself by continuing to be a bastion of resentment, judgment and prejudice behaviors. It’s so toxic. I’m so much more happy abs a much better person being away from the church.

[@mrdiggie3321]

Great podcast, Emma seems like an amazing person. Glad she can be herself and hope she is doing well. She's right, you can be a good person because you choose to be. You don't need other people or a sky god to judge you worthy.

[@madisonrose1576]

I haven’t even watched this yet but I’ll be your new family 🥲

[@realmms]

I just cannot believe how much an academic institution is involved in the personal lives of their paying students … so weird ( never Mormon- living in a 2 university town with a technical college ) Also Emma in your young life you have experienced so much and I respect your strength. You are a shinning light.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Someone remind me of the apostle who said “we don’t shun.”

[@scottbrandon6244]

Elder Bednar said there are no homosexuals in the church.

[@johnhorner1969]

“We don’t shun.” Then the church and its leadership continues its long track record of shunning, but blames it on god. Shunning blacks, interracial marriage, native Americans, gays, anybody who leaves the church, etc….. the church’s whole mantra is “we are better than the world and if you aren’t with us you’re against us.”

[@kimberlykaahanui3170]

Sending you all the best Emma! What a life experience. I think your family will eventually regret treating you this way. Your Joy is of outmost importance. Be happy!

[@grumpyveterannewsservice8605]

Emma, I will be your friend.

[@sunnya8]

I still haven’t come out to my family. I’ve known since I was 16 & now am 40.

[@davidkimber1382]

Preppers weren't well prepped for Covid. Didn't see that one coming...

[@Victor_Grimaldi95]

Thank God there are Mormons who aren't homophobic & hateful. Like Marie Osmond. Sadly, there aren't enough.

[@johnhorner1969]

They are pretty few and far between. And becoming more so as those who aren’t racist or homophobic are leaving the flock, because of what it increasingly stands for.

[@alexandrorocca7142]

It's only speculation, but wouldn't be much harder to shun a kid if you only have one or two? Large families seem nice, but I have a hard time believing that a parent can have a deep bond with each child if there are so many. Emma's dad seems to believe that having children is a duty, and it seems that he's more offended than sad, as if she makes him look bad.

[@Donutsmakemegonuts]

Yeah I’m sure a person’s core beliefs affect how they view their children. Some people believe their children are an extension and reflection of themselves. The parents also believe they are responsible for the children’s salvation and if you find out your child is doing something that goes against your beliefs, I’d imagine you would do all kinds of mental gymnastics. Either blaming yourself, blaming them, blaming Satan, etc. As opposed to accepting the child as they are, and acknowledging they are an individual. It’s pretty interesting IMO how these beliefs will make you justify disowning your own child and fully believing it’s right to do so. Messed up for sure, but interesting.

[@Jac-Jay]

Having kids IS a duty in the Mormon church,the more the have, be them biological or through adoption, the better Mormon they are because it means more names on their member list and more $$ for them down the line.

[@letahamilton]

Yes please to the memoir!

[@daylestevens50]

I get having to disconnect from the manipulation. You have to take the feelings out and almost ignore it in order to not lose it. I agree, they don’t realize most of the time they are doing it. I think they do it because they are focused on what’s best for them. it is not about you, it’s about them.

[@beboystyle620]

I had to laugh when John said apostates are the most dangerous people in the world! Haha!!

[@lovebaileymarin]

Going to dances every Saturday night with Charlie Bird, it’s insane to me to hear John say his name 😄

[@wenasholeranch]

I was in 50 years and out 5 before I heard of Mormon stories.

[@MKConnecticut]

Watching this a year later but- Holy Smokes! The BRAVERY of this young woman, Emma, is nothing short of AMAZING. So very well spoken as well. She had a tight family circle that she basically and SADLY had to RIP HERSELF away from because her family has chosen the church over their own sweet daughter. The internal turmoil she has suffered is heartbreaking- Emma may be unable to embrace emotion now (which I get!), but I certainly am sitting here with tears running down my face. After watching many MSP, Emma sounds like collateral damage of a cult. I know that’s a controversial word for Mormonism, but that’s not the only church who forces it’s members to choose church doctrine over family. What a wonderful accident that she fell upon your TikTok run by Kara. Nice work on your part. You’ve given Emma a community of sorts. I too am a demisexual person- it’s totally real. Sending love and hugs to Emma- wishing you only the best, sweet child❤️

[@MKConnecticut]

100% adherence to some religions and their doctrine (as Emma’s family does)means only embracing conditional love. Some of my immediate family did not attend my wedding in 1983 because I was a catholic who married a divorced man. What would Jesus do- seriously

[@davidfoust9767]

Wow this is very disturbing. The way the family thinks they can drive out and bully her into submission. Especially the dad.

[@ginamariedemeo]

I did not know I was gay until 25

[@ginamariedemeo]

Bc of internalized homophobia, women aren’t told to evaluate their sexual thoughts like that.

[@Ari-zo7ve]

@@ginamariedemeo homophobia and sexual suppression!

[@ew5301]

Shame on her parents. What good and godly person would disown their child. Disgusting that their love is conditional

[@wenasholeranch]

She should call her dads bishop and tell him what he did.

[@BG-ig6fd]

Thank you for sharing your story, Emma. So many young LGBTQ people have been disowned by their families, when their parents are religious, no matter which religion. So much tragedy created by religions. That alone, would make me question organized religion. The brainwashing goes so deep. It almost seems like you are living in completely different worlds: Your modern one and your parents’ old fashioned one. I hope someday they might come around. In the meantime, may you find good support and connection with a new, tolerant, loving community.

[@LisaR2392]

I feel so sorry for Emma when she speaks about loosing her family and not being able to make friends. As a Christian I do believe that the Bible speaks of same sex relationships being a sin, but as a true Christian you should NEVER treat ANYONE much less your own daughter like her dad did. Yes, it would be a shock and a challenge to deal with, but I would NEVER treat my child or anyone else like that!! My child is my child no matter what! I would love them no less. When someone is struggling like this the last thing you should ever do is this. God loves EVERYONE! He hates the SIN. I wish you the best Emma! You are a very good hearted young woman as God loves you we do too!

[@livehealthyfinishstrong]

Late in this podcast, where she talks about having hope for the future and goals she wants to pursue, a thought came to mind. In many Christian circles (non-Mormon) and even from the pulpit, it is not unusual to hear the little saying, “he/she is so heavenly minded, he/she is of no earthly good.” Christians laugh at this statement and almost consider it a compliment rather than an insult. That is sad if you really think about it. Legitimate Christian faith SHOULD lead to love and charity for your fellow human beings here and now, and not just your own fellow Christians. It should make have love and charity primarily for those NOT of your tribe.

[@delphinidin]

The way Emma didn't realize she was a lesbian until her twenties really resonated: I didn't realize I was asexual until my thirties! (Apparently this is relatively common for asexual people.) I literally thought that I was normal and I couldn't figure out why everybody else was acting like sex was this huge deal. Like, why are they always exaggerating? lol

[@ScottBub]

1:20:00 nope! No need for any dogmas, idols, or ideologies! The great thing about being a skeptic and an agnostic atheist we can be totally free to understand the real world as it is and not have to be extremely biased against any facts that pop up in our lives.

[@Ojo10]

LOL I'm demisexual and sometimes I wonder if I'm bi or pan because I had a similar experience to hers AS SOON as she said it took her a while to find out because she didn't really think about it, and thought it was because she was righteous, (I haven't really had close female friends so I don't know if its possible for me) I had a feeling she was also demisexual!

[@kellydowney2100]

You are a amazing Beautiful woman 🌺

[@emh.1178]

My dad got me kicked out of byu for being gay:( it sucked.

[@elizabethwoodyard8241]

I'm curious if Emma has reached out or if her ex mo siblings have reached out and tried to foster more of a relationship now that she's out.

[@FatherVampire]

"To this day I still haven't tried alcohol." 5:15 Same here... and as perhaps also with you too, John, it has nothing to do with former Mormon beliefs.

[@gordonzio]

I agree and I don't. Iv been away for a long time and still don't drink but think that whole thought process is rooted in my identity formed while I was in the church. I'm the same with coffee but had my first cigar this year in celebration of my first grandchild. the programing runs abnormally deep on some things.

[@ceruleanskies001]

I am very late to this as I am watching older podcasts and I would like to add: Heternormativity really suppresses and confuses queer feelings. I know research was mentioned, but did it mention girls/women? In the bi (umbrella) world, heternormativity makes having same sex/gender attraction difficult because you still have socially normal feelings and it can be a mask. For Aero/Ace folks, it can be even more confusing because feelings don't even come up the same way and yet these people getting told how it should look, so again it can be masked. A lot of queer folks may have had ideas or feelings at younger ages but it's not until adulthood when they have more exposure and/or freedoms can they really say " I am xxx". Not speaking for the whole community, just my little corner.

[@SarahSmith-xy5ku]

I just wanted to add that John Pontious died fully in the faith. He was never excommunicated. I think his book did more harm than good, and think he would have never wrote it had he known. Remember he was telling the stories of another man, he was only the author. I first read it and thought it was great, and one of the most spiritual books I had ever read. I shared it with my mother who didn’t like the spirit of it at all. I read Ms. Rowe’s book also, but didn’t find it that impressive, however I did order me a nice tent. Lol. The idea that st. George is going to become a tent city south of town, is so laughable. I know she has spoken their to promote her book, but does she know how hot it is? 100+ from June to September! Drought? God can do miracles, yes, amen. This would need to be on the scale of Moses and the Children of Israel. Southern Utah already has too many people here. It’s the fastest growing county in the country, but it’s running out of water. Please people, everyone is making it into the next phoenix. Please make your place better, don’t force me out of mine. I wanted to be spiritual like those portrayed in these books. I wondered why after lot and lot and lots of effort, I didn’t get these special spiritual experiences. These lead to very much depression, and finally having to take a Holliday from the Church. This about killed me. I am sorry these things happened to some (many) who read these books. I feel the Brother Pontius would be horrified to learn the damage his book has caused. He died shortly after it’s publication. But not, he was not excommunicated. He was a faithful member to the end.

[@DragonHeartTree]

True, what you said about John P. He was kind of naive about how groups of fanatics within the church can take a single book and create a cult out of it. He just thought it was a really cool and inspirational story, and it fit his personal paradigm.

[@marybultman3565]

Also, you are welcome in my family

[@DragonHeartTree]

UVU offers Dr visits for $10. Lab work $40.

[@Kstringham02]

I really don't like the "Don't let Satan influence you" line that you get from members just because you are a naturally curious person. As a member going through a faith crisis currently, my issue is with Joseph Smith and the BoM not with Christ...but oh no, I must be questioning LDS religion because of Satan. After diving in and reading more of the Bible, I feel like my faith in Christ is stronger than ever.

[@jaredcreel1690]

35:45 It's so much easier to paint people as a darth vader or maleficent sort of villan, those ex-mormons are evil people just trying to go and ruin people's testimony of the one true church, when in reality there are so many that are troubled by the history and the inconsistencies of the church

[@TacShooter]

From the Mormon perspective, how could having gay feelings not be sinful if having adulterous "feelings" is sinful? Sounds like apologetics for political correctness. Christianity has ALWAYS been about accusing someone for what is going on in their heads or hearts, because it was invented by Roman Flavians whose anti-Torah lifestyles were clearly visible to Torah-observant Jews.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Wow, such enmeshment. So sorry Emma.

[@akgirl1830]

You have joined a big community of people who have left religion behind. I left a similar fundamentalist religion. Even if your parents don't outright reject you it is still a huge barrier in your relationship to not share their belief in God or religion. My church doesn't shun but no longer following the rules puts you on the outside regardless. If your family is devoted then they don't have a lot of time left for secular time with you. For religious parents if you are 💯 believing in the rules and think your child is going to hell then of course you are going to try to keep them from eternal damnation. I don't know how you can be a Mormon and be alright with having a child that is LGBTQ. Do they no longer see it as a sin? How can they not if they are in a church that teaches it is a sin? I am an agnostic now but I don't know how I would handle or react to seeing my child on a path to hell if that where I believed they were going. Religion is the problem and does way more harm than we recognize or give it credit for. I hope as more of us come out as rejecting religion we will effect a change maybe not in previous generations who are too invested but that the youth are influenced to at least examine what they believe and feel like not believing is a viable option.

[@mikestewart6517]

Even worse. Their people cannot communicate with them.

[@jaycie2213]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but I'm not sure exposing your family to the public is the best way to improve your family relationship...

[@beholder9]

Is not trying alcohol still a badge of honor at this point?

[@lukewilder8401]

lol I was about to comment the same thing... I get not being into drinking (I'm not particularly), but not even TRYING a sip of beer or wine once? Just out of curiosity? I mean these beverages are part of the fabric of the human experience stretching back to our prehistory. I find them fascinating just on a cultural and historical level. A decade ago I would have guessed it to be a strategy on John's part to maintain credibility with believing Mormons; but at this point, John knows better than anyone that he has ZERO credibility with believing mormons. So why the teetotalist approach? I'm not criticizing at all! but it definitely piques my curiosity haha... maybe its just that old habits die hard? I'm just happy for him that he finally tried coffee

[@lukewilder8401]

btw great episode! Thanks emma for sharing!

[@charlesmendeley9823]

It's his choice. What I find much more offensive is that Mormonism talks against tea, which is the basic beverage of billions of people (talking about Chinese and Indians alone).

[@MsCaterific]

🖤

[@ginamariedemeo]

Waiting…… :)

[@ginamariedemeo]

There’s so much other content I could watch but I am excited to hear the end of this story!

[@johnmchugh3981]

We are all born in sin, no church or set of laws can save you from that sin, that’s where the true Gospel comes in, why Jesus Christ was sacrificed for our sin, paying our debt if we repent and accept him as our saviour, we are born again with the Holy Spirit to lead us, we realise the full extent of our sin, sexual immorality is only a small part of it, we want to live our own lives, define right and wrong for ourselves, define love for ourselves, it’s not hard to see how this opens the door to depravity, we can convince ourselves that it’s beautiful. She had become her own god, just like the serpent’s lie in the garden of Eden. I pray you meditate on Gods word in the Bible, not Book of Mormon. We are truly coming close to the end, evil for good, darkness for light Repent and seek Jesus Christ while you still have time

[@ScottBub]

Wow! I can’t believe your sister. The love is so overwhelming. Threatening you and getting her husband to harass you and then forcing you to tell your family on her timeline. That one really irritates me. Also, if you label everything that isn’t affirming of the church as “sin” makes it so basically anything that anyone ever does outside of it as sin. So if you label everything that is different whether good or bad a sin then it’s bound to happen to be a part of someone’s story.

[@ScottBub]

Sheesh! Her dad is so scary and delusional. I’d be absolutely terrified.

[@ScottBub]

Man. When her father said she’s was dead to him. That just tears me up inside. I can’t imagine leaving my daughter high and dry for being her authentic self. There is nothing that my daughter can do that would make me do that. My dad is also a piece of work and I don’t talk to him or my mom. I barely talk to the rest of my family either. I have created a new family. One that I feel are not toxic and actually care about how they treat me. It’s awful and wild that they said that you were destroying them and being inhumane. It’s so awful.

[@ScottBub]

I always try to tell someone that doesn’t understand attraction is not a choice to stare at an a$$ for the sex/gender they think is attractive and choose to not like it or get aroused and then stare at an a$$ for someone of the other sex/gender they are not attracted to and choose to get aroused or like it. I tell them to do this seriously. Generally they start to understand.

[@DragonHeartTree]

Ok, that family rejection thing is not really rejection. It’s actually just an attempt at pressuring you back into normalcy. They’ll back off in a couple years when they get used to the idea. But they will be sad for your condition, for your lifetime probably. But won’t you also feel sad for them, because you think they are off the track, too? I think it goes both ways. Your dad has shown a history of taking personal responsibility for every person in your family. He went to outrageous lengths to be The One Who saves you guys. So yeah he’s taking it personally very hard, because he’s feeling he clearly failed in his responsibility. As soon as he truly realizes that you have to be the one to save yourself, to take care of yourself, as soon as he relinquishes complete control...he’s going to feel better. Someone once said to me “ there IS a Savior... but it’s not ME”. It completely changed my life.

[@kvdme]

Guess I'm confused about the point of these podcasts. Just cements your feet in the world of ex Mormons and confusion which obviously puts people in modes to publically bash family forever on line. Sad. Decide. walk away from it all including these and find Christ. These will not heal you but lock you into your pain of ex Mormonism blah blah. Past is past.

[@richardholmes5676]

What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking Robert Ritner and the other arrogant Egyptologists?

[@lukewilder528]

Lmao

[@susanhaney3437]

My opinion is that the Egyptologists know what they are talking about.

[@richardholmes5676]

@@susanhaney3437 One would have to be highly unintelligent to have assumed the arrogant Egyptologists were right.

[@susanhaney3437]

@@richardholmes5676 I have a master's degree in chemistry from Caltech, so I feel that I have adequate intelligence to decide between the two. But thank you for the kindly insult.

[@richardholmes5676]

@@susanhaney3437 One would have to be highly unintelligent to assume that the Egyptian fertility god Min with an erect penis pertains to scripture.