177 v 22 calibre for pest control

[@AAROnair]

Bit of a mix up with KZbin release on this one I'm afraid. a little like number nine buses, nothing then two come along at the same time?? www.aar-onair.com visit www.vector-air.co.uk

[@petetimbrell3527]

Andy, how about a practical demo using different calibre/weight pellets fired at a sheet of plywood at 40m and 20m, showing penetration achieved by each shot? Just a thought.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@petetimbrell3527 Not a bad test for quick and dirty, but it will not tell you much technically. Measuring fps, (and figuring out fpe), through a crony at those yards will. You can bet the highest fpe will do the most damage to a piece of plywood. Of course, different pellet designs make a difference too, even if they are the same weight and speed, like that "hornet" pellet with a metal tip.

[@petetimbrell3527]

@@EarthSurferUSA - It would be a reasonable demo, but I also hear you. As long as the shots are all hitting the same, uniform sheet of plywood though (in different places obviously) then its a fair field-test for people who don't have access to a chrono, but can see on screen for themselves the energy delivered to the target panel. Agreed that different pellet types/materials will make a difference but the shooter should expect a pointed tip to penetrate the plywood more than a wadcutter, and lead to go deeper than, say, aluminum. I'm waiting for depleted uranium pellets haha ! Btw, can ya hang 10 while surfing on a whole planet? I'd watch that.

[@sosteve9113]

No regulations in power in the UK,looks interesting

[@keithschwantz7384]

7 l

[@gregoryfox9286]

Elma Keith ( father of the .44 Mag) was asked " what is the best calibre?" He replied " The one you can hit things with " reply " what ? " Keith said " a . 177 air rifle pellet in the brain is more life threatening than a .50 Browning in the foot , It's where the hole is that's important, not the calibre ".

[@davidpaylor5666]

Excellent. Cheers.

[@sosteve9113]

True

[@hunter100t]

Great quote mate.

[@kashgoat1361]

Cheers m8

[@Rabbit.760]

It gets a little more complicated when ballistics and suppressive fire are important. And if you're a competition shooter where ricochet trick shots are a thing.... Oh boy 😅

[@EarthSurferUSA]

I have to give Andy big props. As an engineer myself, I can see that there are only a handful of guys on YT who do good tests and provide good solid, scientific information,---and Andy is right up there with the best. "Let see how many full beer cans this pellet will go through", will never be one of Andy's vids. :) Kudos sir. Doug in Michigan USA.

[@charlesmckinley29]

That would be a terrible waste of beer.

[@jonfisher9214]

Sir I am both shocked and saddened at the thought of wasting beer in this way.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

@GameliEL Auceps ah yes, this confused me too for some time. it actually means to give "propers" or more easy to understand "proper respect" or maybe i just made that up, i dunno.

[@bushcat274]

I concur wholeheartedly.

[@marcussmart3275]

One might even say "mad props" if of the proper age gangsta

[@vf19blue]

"you are only ever under-gunned if you miss' Col. J. Cooper (RIP)

[@tompedersen6564]

Excellent presentation. Old adage: If you don't hit them in the right place, it matters little what caliber you use. If you do hit them in the right place, it matters even less.

[@Danny_Transition_Patrol]

True.

[@allanwind295]

You don't want to shoot coyote, deer or hog with a .177 to give extreme examples.

[@samanthaevans9696]

@@allanwind295 even at power the .177 is,nt the right caliber for the pest species you listed . any good shooter will know what caliber for the job in hand

[@gordonlawrence1448]

@@allanwind295 I have as yet to see one of those wild in the UK.

[@danglingdave1787]

@@gordonlawrence1448 you get them in wales

[@quoguitars9555]

Thanks for all the great advice Andy. I am currently going to purchase a bullpup air rifle for target work, and as we live rurally, a spot of pest control, and your advice and suggestions have gone a long way to help with my decision making. As an aside, I am currently fighting cancer, and the time I have passed listening to your dulcet tones as I fight on. Keep up the good work my mate, and thank you for helping the hours go by with great information, and advice. Take care, and stay safe, Quo

[@notavailable7578]

In my opinion... both haha. I’ve taken small game to racoon and groundhog easily with one shot kills with both 177 and 22. It’s all about shot placement. With airguns i find it best to put a round through the brain. Airguns are definitely overlooked and mocked by powder burner shooters. I think airguns are actually a better way to hunt small game and pests. Sure power and less down range energy than a rim fire. But I find it more fun and much safer hunting with an airgun. Just my opinion.

[@fisheyeguy]

You may not say both, if you had to abide by the sub 12ft lb rule.

[@antonchigurh5472]

Much quieter too

[@Dennco2000]

I agree ☝️

[@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL]

It also cheaper to shoot pellets verses powder round, especially these days!

[@billybob-cd5oc]

@@fisheyeguy but you can say both as 22 and 177 can be had in sub 12ftlb

[@OFNAmatiC9237]

It took me until the 16 minute mark to realize that’s not a window behind him. I’m impressed with the drop cloth background. Nice touch. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Cheers.

[@RS-xq6je]

I just noticed think I've fallen for it before with the rifle near the window

[@JRyoutube09]

plants not real either yo

[@katiestevens1397]

It fooled me anyway.

[@heli-man-]

I have 177 and 22 I always use standard dome pellets in both but I use the 22 for pest control and target shooting it’s very accurate and I’m not sure why I even brought the 177. Maybe because I use my 22 for target shooting all the time I have no problem in accuracy when pest controlling so it all comes down to practice and knowing your rifle.

[@Beesa10]

I have both .177 and .22 but I do prefer .22 on the whole, the first airguns I practiced with were .22, larger pellets are a little bit easier to handle, holes in targets are a bit easier to see, the transfer of energy to the pellet is more efficient, slightly less muzzle report and .22 just 'thumps' a bit harder. I understand a flatter trajectory is better for accuracy at different distances but for shooting the occasional rat in my garden the distance isn't an issue as they appear under the bird feeder or by the shed.

[@jimmynich4791]

That's the thing, for sub 12 ft lbs you'd have to be a very good shot to be doing successful pest control at a distance that the difference in trajectory between .177 & .22 would matter. I think as well if you are that good you'd know the calibration of the scope with holdover, under, etc.

[@jimaspinii7579]

As a retired math/computer teacher I very much appreciate your statistical presentation. Thanks for all the work you have been willing to invest to get these results!

[@kevinblaylock391]

Interesting information and thank you. Having been a huge fan of Air rifles and pistols since 10 years old, when my Dad bought for me as a Christmas present a Diana 177 rifle. Since then and over the last 54 years, I've owned many Rifles and some highly collectable ones too, BSA Centenary and Stutzen being some of my favorites classics. The reason all of the above is mentioned is because I found over the years, that the 177 cal pellet, across all of my sub 12ftlbs guns was more accurate, carried the velocity and did the job the other end, so I agree with all Andy has said. 👍

[@darrencady4261]

Thanks Andy for another great presentation. For me its .22 (JSB Exact) at 13.43 grains. I get 619 to 625 fps on average and they are accurate-ish out to about 40 yards beyond which the groups open up. At this range the pellet can still pass straight through a tin can which is power enough from my 1987 HW35 Export!

[@bengvideos572]

Best air guns channel

[@kennethmidwinter982]

Sir, having been a operational police officer operating with Beretta 92F’s and MP5,s…… all 9mm…..this video is brilliant. You have explained ballistics so well. Once again so accurate. Kind regards Ken. Hats off, as they used to say.

[@colinsmith4998]

A lot of work clearly went into making this, much appreciated.

[@davidpaylor5666]

Brilliant stuff Andy, the best presentation of this discussion I've either seen or read.

[@simonjohnmeredith]

An in depth and measured explanation that’s been so lacking on this emotive subject, lol. Top work Andy, thank you. 👍🏼 (for the record, I’m reassured that my .22 coupled with an effective scope is up to the job) At the end of the day it’s all about personal preference, there is no right or wrong answer, so long as you’re aware of the subtle differences.

[@chrisnurczyk8239]

Looking at this from the "other side of the pond" - though we can use 20 ft. lb. guns where I live, this info is still very valuable, giving me much food for thought. I haven't shot for years, and am just getting started (w/springers - I'll get it down yet), and I must say Andy's videos are some of the most valuable I've seen. Thanks, Andy, for cutting through the nonsense and offering sensible advice - and it's also pleasant to have it delivered by such an agreeable gentleman.

[@williamclifford4441]

Air Arms TX200 is an excellent rifle . Very, very accurate and punchy.

[@leejordan7252]

I use .177 and its down to my ability. I am not the best of shooters and I find with a flatter trajectory I am more accurate over different distances. if I don't think I can get a clean shot then the shot will not be taken.

[@allanwind295]

If you fix the speed rather than energy I wonder if it's even an issue. Also, it's not really the maximum distance of the arc that matters, as you need to holdover for either caliber at least with the 0.5cm kill zone that I am for. It's that a flatter trajectory gives you a larger point blank range. Another way of saying that is that your estimated distance to your target is more forgiving of errors. For the pesting I do with a .22, it matters (as in 0.25 mil), if my target is 13 or 14m.

[@beverlywalding5525]

They all say that not me

[@dangeraghty6715]

Andy, your presentations and personality are outstanding. Thanks for all the great videos and education you've bestowed upon me.

[@georgeloveless4176]

Andy this was excellent. Being a newbie to airgunning, I've often wondered about the differences in calibre, and you helped me out with many of the questions that I had. I can only imagine the amount of work and time that you spent on making this particular video, and I want to let you know that your efforts are absolutely appreciated! Well done and thank you.

[@PaulBriden]

Remember the review is about Vermin control. Competition target shooting is in 177 caliber. What Andy does not say is that 177 pellets are more affected by wind over distance than 22

[@mkaz3997]

@@PaulBriden Not so much if you use 'heavy' pellets in .177..ie 10.4 gr as opposed to 8.4 gr std.

[@PaulBriden]

@@mkaz3997 True.

[@donaldbarden6294]

Have taken turkey with a single head shot in .177. Shot placement is the key in my personal opinion. I have a .22 air rifle collecting dust in my attic. .177 pellets have come a long way too for small game/pest control.

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

Many, many years ago, I used to go hunting with air rifles. And I'm talking 35 odd years ago now. I used to have an FWB Sport in .177 that was Venom tuned to over 11.5ft lbs (I can't recall it exactly now.). But we used, I had a friend with the same set up, a .177 pellet that was about 10 point something grains. I think it was an H&N pellet, but I could be wrong. Regardless. We only ever shot that same gun with the same pellets ALL the time. We never changed. We'd zero in at 30 yards (Meter's were never used back then!) and once zeroed in, we'd set up targets at 40 yds and 20 yds and without the need to change anything on the tele sights, we'd adjust our shooting to get good, and very accurate results. What I'm say is, it doesn't matter what gun, pellet, scope setup you have, you have to practice to get good results and don't change. Keep practising with a set up you're confident with and it'll all come together. As a side note. My best shot was on a woody that was sat on a barn at 55 to 60 yards. We were in a hid in the middle of a field and the woody laded on the barn behind us. Behind the barn, were fields and fields. It was a still day. it was a safe shot (Which is of the utmost important point in shooting. Always Shoot Safely.). I aimed at the Woody. Adjusted for range. Pulled the trigger and the Woody dropped to the ground. Stone dead.

[@gmc1966]

What's a woody?

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

@@gmc1966 Woodpigeon. Not some pervert flashing his erect manhood about! 🤔😲 😅🤣😂

[@silvereith]

Rule of thumb: 1. Target shooting - .177 for flatter trajectory and expense. 2. For walking up on pests and shooting at different distances ... .177 for easier accuracy unless you are a crack-shot. 3. For hide shooting or ambushing quarry at a known fixed distance - well .22 or .25 or .177. they'll all do the job if you do. Not a good selection of .25 pellets in England. That's my take anyway.

[@redcanoe14]

When I was a youth we only had .177 or .22 airguns, pellets were usually confined to Milbro Brand, or Webley and Scott in a couple of configurations. Most air rifles were BSA, Webley and Scott or Diana. I remember first seeing a Weihrauch and been very envious of it because I could not afford to buy one. Some guys used to tune them up (but probably ruin them in the process) :)

[@andrewcrofts531]

My brain hurts now..... Great discussion Andy, we all have our favourite calibre but like you say its accuracy which matters over everything. Cheers and keep safe.

[@cgmehta8264]

Being an American, this is both super weird and AWESOME. Spelling is different, things are called different things, it's just overall cool. I've always wanted to go to the UK and can't wait till I'm old enough to do so!!!

[@BossTweed69]

It isn't all that mate, trust me

[@vincemcmahonreadskoran3120]

@@BossTweed69 No where is all that, but part of travel is seeing how things are different from place to place. Not better or worse but different in some ways.

[@Ryan.90]

​@@vincemcmahonreadskoran3120 Very true, I always say to Americans, don't just go to London! 2-3 Days you could cover a lot of the sights...pay £6-£8 a pint in a few pubs, But if you've got a week or better 2, there's Cambridge, Lincon, York, Newcastle, Durham. Northumberland coast is beautiful, Bambraugh, Linfesfarne, Seahouses. Same goes for the Jurassic Coast down south like, my first road trip we went to Devon but I picked up my late in London, camped in New Forest first night, Dorset next, had a night in Seaton then down to Newton Abbott.

[@davidharris4062]

It’s called English, not American

[@cgmehta8264]

@@davidharris4062 but I'm not English. That would imply that I am from the UK. I am am indeed American. 😌

[@injairgun]

Andy, the JSB Hades will be available in the first quarter of 2021 in .30.

[@joemat4035]

I use high power air rifle in 4.5mm (.177) with heavier pellets (jsb monster or beast) just to stay subsonic and I have a great results both hunting and target shooting. Very nice review btw

[@siebeversluys6900]

My favorite airgun channel!!!

[@raiwaheed2725]

Very informative Sir!!

[@siebeversluys6900]

@@raiwaheed2725 😎

[@zrb9591]

Greetings from North Carolina, USA. This has been very helpful. Thank you.

[@The.308win]

Hi Andy! I both have a powerful .177 and a .22 cal, and i tested this yesterday. My .22 delivers a good ammount of knockdown power but poor penetration in a 2 inch plywood with regular 15-16gr pellets, so i decided to try out a 15gr slug on my .177 cal, and it penetrated the 2 inch plywood with an extreme ammount of knockdown power and a slam to the boards and the exit wound was devastating, and i calculated it that my .177 cal with a 15gr slug delivered more speed and ft/lbs than my .22 airgun, and that’s where i start to think about why slugs are made for .177 cals.. as long as your .177 air gun is powerful enough to manage sending a heavy slug away, it will take your .22’s place instantly, both when it comes to speed, accuracy, range, and penetration.. and even ft/lbs depending on your slugs grain that can go up extremley heavy for .177’s. I am choosing my .177cal loaded in slugs for hunting instead of my .22

[@keiththomas3141]

I agree with you ... for what it's worth.

[@Reddylion]

Interesting

[@dmo848]

Huh did not know this. U Kno I'm getting slugs soon then. Thank u my good sir

[@barronhelmutschnitzelnazi2188]

I guess it depends on the gun. No way my daisy powerline 1000 .177 and gamo silent cat .177 has more power than my gamo magnum .22.

[@MrJacksonBollock]

Learn on a .22, then you get the eye and understanding for the arc. .177 is easy after that! Great vid.

[@dicky3340]

Fantastic video. The most comprehensive explanation of calibres and power I have seen. Well done Andy.

[@rogerarcher4271]

Just been inspired by the vid. Blue the dust off my 45-year weihrauch. Then realised the gun has stood the test of time but my eyesight hasn't.

[@jaysee2213]

🤣 off for a new pair of bins then you're grand!

[@Dr._Spamy]

And with ironsides nothing realy helps aming, neither the reading glasses nor the glasses for distance vision. But a scope will do the job. ;)

[@michaelb.42112]

Haha good comment. I have to wear my readers, too.

[@paulgreen2416]

Time for a shiny new high magnification scope. Only think that will ever stop me is complete blindness. And even then I might still give it a try 😂

[@williammactavish3913]

'Blue' .. SMH. Although I hope you had a blast!!

[@Danielson1818]

.177 out of a springer works just fine for squirrels (big ones in New York State). As long as the person shooting has good aim. Head or heart shot, and it's over pretty fast.

[@patpathoneyhoneypatpat8813]

This was very well presented. As a beginner this video answered a hell of a lot of questions I had . Excellent Thank You.

[@mattfrancis4569]

thanks andy, keep warm and safe my friend, my weihrauch hw45 in .22 is a good close range pest control. love from cornwall

[@eoinwestman6222]

Excellent video and information Andy thank you. I will agree with you on the .177 and 10.34 jsb heavies and hades. Both work fantastically well for rabbits and squirrels for me. Better groups for the jsb heavies when doing doing target work but the hades are a great pellet out to 40 yards

[@jacob79001]

I would say 22 for beginners and 177 for people who are used to shooting accurately, understand good shot placement and wish to fire at further ranges. If you're not planning on shooting much further than 30-40m then a 22 will give you a slight edge over a 177. At further ranges then 177 is the way to go. (assuming you're using sub 12 ft/lb)

[@stevereed166]

very good, clarity, informative , not rattling on too fast as our u.s.a friends do or difficult to understand pigeon english. enjoy your videos, very helpfull.

[@exspliffit]

My record in sub 12fpe is 87.5 yard headshot on a pigeon using 10.34gr .177. the retained energy was around 6fpe. There was no wind at all and I was well rested and feeling confident. If that was a .22 I wouldn't have even attempted it due the curve. Always shot .177 and I think I always will. Shoot what your happy with and are used to Like the old saying: if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it👍

[@oddjob7821]

That's an impressive shot . I've used both 2.2 and 177. I think it all comes down to skill and knowing your kit. I remember years ago when Field Target Shooting started way back when it was 0riginal 45s ,HWs and Webley Vulcans and such like. I thought I was a pretty good shot and I was satisfied with my performance. However I was amazed at what some of the shooters were able to hit constantly. I believe most doing FTS use 177 due to its flatter trajectory. For pest control I think it very much depends on the circumstances and what suits your needs best and to be fully aware of your own limitations. Again great shot and just shows what can be achieved with practice and skill which is what it's all about.

[@exspliffit]

@@oddjob7821 thanks dude👍

[@odysseusreturns9133]

Only tried two specific hunting pellets at .177 on a HW97. Tested for accuracy at 30 yards I found the JSB Hades very disappointing with poor grouping. The discussions on the forums confirm this. The H&N Barracuda Hunter Extreme on the other hand was as accurate as a FT pellet.

[@jamescarre6743]

That was an excellent presentation. No preaching, no nonsense delivery of facts with a little previous experience information added. I do enjoy your videos. You must spend a fair bit of time in your editing, this one was very slick. Mrs AAR must have kept you well supplied with coffees.

[@plektosgaming]

If you are in the U.S., or above 12 ft-lbs, the most ballistically accurate caliber is between 6mm and 6.5mm. This is optimal for firearms as well, being a "sweet spot" for performance as well as accuracy. A large number of famous rifles were made in .26 caliber/6.5mm for a very good reason. - As for airguns, this means a big PCP, unfortunately, and close to 100-200 ft-lbs as your goal is to fire something much more bullet-shaped at close to supersonic speeds. ie - **IF** you can go large, just go large and use it like a firearm. If you are limited, then decisions and compromises have to be made. And that's where this discussion gets interesting... EDIT - a typical .22LR round has about 150ft-lbs of energy. There's a reason it's used so often for small game.

[@laurieharper1526]

My "if I had to choose a single option" preference is the same as yours - .177 with Hades or JSB Heavies.

[@PUNKF001]

Fantastic analysis of the never ending argument! I like both to be honest. .22 presents more of a challenge at distance. But i only tend to shoot up to 30ish yards so using .22 is ideal. Ive dropped a shot with .177 and vermin can just run off. .22 seems to dump way more of its energy into the target and gives you a bit more peace of mind if you drop the shot slightly. Nothing wrong with .177 if your shot placement is bang on. So much easier at the range too.

[@hotchihuahua1546]

Spring air rifle 177 , PCP both ! A smaller diameter 177 pellet will penetrate easier and deeper at the same speed as the 22 pellet !

[@smithy2462]

Yes indeed it has been useful to me as I have been on the 177 vs .22 dilemma for ratting (As a newbie) and now I am satisfied with going with a 177 rifle, thanks for another great informative video.

[@robertfish4052]

Im a sucker for a graph. Loved it. Now I want a 20 cal.

[@nafizhaq4554]

This is the best explanation of .177 vs .22 you can get anywhere! Also a good video to watch for beginners! Hats off to Andy

[@charosenz]

Super helpful info. Thanks for no annoying music.

[@Strutingeagle]

This is not as important in the USA that does not place arbitrary limitations on the power level. That being said, you did a cracking job with your explanation in order to get the most with the power allotted. The flatter trajectory is very important in hit ability on one hand but the heavier projectiles carry the energy better. If one were to look up videos of actual uses of .177 cal pellets on rabbits and birds, he will be satisfied of its ability to dispatch small animals. Thank you for such an informative video and the bang up job on the visual aids.

[@1kreature]

Here (Norway) you are limited to only 0.177 (4.5mm) unless you get a license. There is however no limit on the energy, only diameter and air/co2 as propellant. There is a 18 year age limit, but you can apply to be exempt from the day you turn 16. This sort of makes all the heavier .177 more reasonable as it is then possible to get these up to useful speeds for proper trajectories.

[@richardmillican7733]

Ha ha... the “lights out instantly” had an aire of Hannibal Lector about it, Clarice.

[@orgazmick]

Andy your wife needs to iron the consevatory it's a bit creased.cheers for the explanation bud

[@geoffread2707]

Ah Ah! I saw this before - I’m not on any preview list that I’m aware of - good to see you Andy!

[@paulwatson9217]

Personally sub 12 ft lbs I’m firmly in the .177 camp higher power .22 or larger cal .25 or more. I’m not saying this is right for everyone it’s just my right. And I think that’s the whole point everybody has to find their own rights and wrongs. Unfortunately as helpful as this advice from Andy is, and it is. Everyone has to find their own way using Andy’s findings is a great baseline it gives people a head start. Lastly I couldn’t argue his findings I’m pretty much on the same page.

[@icingdeath]

Love the stats. These are the tables one should show in comparative reviews rather than subjective comments. 👏

[@davewilson4008]

Great video with solid information. Like you I use more than 1 calibre but for me my favourite is my .20 in my sub 12 fp. I first used a .20 some 20 years ago and since then have always kept one in my cabinet. Yes there is less choice in pellets but that said I've had good results with both JSB and H&N from my rifles, The JSB's are a little heavier so seem to hit harder and group the best (although we're talking only very slightly tighter from my air ranger) so are generally my go to pellet.

[@CVM222VOLT]

After reviewing the points made and specifications provided I can only come to one conclusion ... Thank goodness here in the USA we have no FPE restrictions 😬🇺🇸

[@sidneezingara1976]

not yet

[@StrathpefferJunction]

There's no power restrictions in the UK either if you get your FAC. Anyone who wants to go high power, can just get their certificate and they can buy whatever air rifle they want.

[@CobosDoesItAll]

Love the foldable background lol. Nice presentation as always.

[@informing_]

Hi from Greece, yes I have a US flag I'm a Greek-American but I currently live in Greece and I love it

[@tomsoki5738]

The limit really should be increased to 20ft/lb, it would allow for cleaner kills but wouldn’t pose much more threat to humans than a 12ft/lb

[@cakehead1]

I agree.... stupid law

[@colinstevens6837]

thank the retards that want to run around town pointing guns at people!

[@kirkyfarndale5780]

Agree people should start sending letting to there mps even tho prob won’t help

[@artsmith103]

1 thing in their favor is how close to sea level they are. For instance, at 3800ft, my 15 fpe breakbarrel is barely 13fpe, only 1fpe over the European limit. Agree with you though, 15fpe would be much better, especially concerning 0.22.

[@mrcaboosevg6089]

Any power air rifle wouldn't pose much of a threat to humans unless you got incredibly unlucky. Some of those massive .50 air rifles they make in the states sure but with .177 or .22 they're simply to light to do any major damage to a human. Air pistols are the same, the 6ft/ib limit is ridiculous

[@oakessw]

Nice to see the case made in a clear and logical way with some useful data to back it up. Cheers

[@phillprice5225]

You mention that the Hades expands on live quarry. Have you ever recovered an expanded one from an animal or bird?

[@robertcoldham6849]

Another factor in the equation is wind conditions, I find heavier pellets more accurate at longer distances

[@martinrigo5709]

tak

[@bushcat274]

Born and raised on the south downs flinging .22 into rabbits. I wont change! Super modded 2250 with push pin release stock is my go to poacher.

[@megastick9324]

My .177. Does an excellent job of pest control. Used within its limits of course , like any other tool. I wouldn’t hunt bear with a stick.

[@marknewman2187]

In my experience accuracy is the key in either .22 of .177 pigeons and squirrels need head shots ,then either caliber will do the job and the most accurate pellet with the best deformation I've found is the JSB Hades Diablo ,in a league of it's own tbh

[@jaysee2213]

You're totally right, there are many arguments for all of the above but if you can't hit the target then you might as well not bother, as an average shooter then .177 suits me because it gives me the best chance of hitting my target and at 30/40 yards I can confirm that a dead rabbit doesn't care that it doesn't have feathers because it's dead

[@stevedix2973]

Horses for courses , I do pest control at work , 177 walther RM8 all day long for outside work and a crosman ratty 22 for everything in buildings zero to 15M , fast and accurate for outside and slower punch for inside (don`t want holes in the roof now )

[@grod1036]

There is 'no' best IMO. I shoot both, and prefer .177 for hunting. I like the flatter trajectory.

[@jimf1964]

I’m a rim and centre fire guy who is just getting interested in pellet guns for practice. It’s the same argument there. Fast and light shoots flatter, so it’s generally easier to aim, especially in good weather or indoors, but a heavier gives better terminal performance. You just need to know how to shoot better. There is also the problem with BC and how the environment affects it, so I’d tend to agree with you that a heavier 177, with smaller surface area, would be a better choice, so long as you’re able to achieve pellet expansion, since projectile construction, and therefore terminal performance is also important. Like, ok, I hit it, so why is it still running around? Sort of idea. You still need a good big hole. Being precise with a sewing needle won’t help, but if that needle expands into something large? Your doing good.

[@brianamuro3023]

Hi Andy, good to see your videos again. I just purchased an air rifle. But I purchased a.177 caliber rifle. Only because it's cheaper than a real fun.

[@agustinazaldivar9352]

Congratulations, excellent work !!! I think that JSB Hades .20 in 13 to 14 gns would be an excellent option and would give more use and future to that caliber

[@troyb8755]

Great video, very informative and will be watching more of your videos.

[@mikepattinson3285]

Interesting last few comments, have the same rifle in .22 and .177 both running with favourite pellets at 11.6ftlb. I like the accuracy of the .177 out to 50-60m with JSB 10.34gr issue is that at ranges up to 30yds find pellet often passes straight through quarry and quarry doesn't "drop dead" tried the hades and find them not accurate enough in .177. The .22 loves AA or JSB 15.89 gr. Is as accurate as the .177, and quarry nearly always "drops dead" at ranges upto 40m. The hades are also very accurate through this gun out to 40m. Often thought about a .20 and like the huntsman style of gun but cannot justify another😏😏. Have tried 13gr slugs in .177 accuracy was superb, however at 11.6ftlb at muzzle with JSB 10.4gr gun was only delivering 9.6ftlb with 13gr slugs. Out at 30m slug impact was 21mm below that of the 10.4gr JSB.

[@SouthOZHobbyHunter]

I run the JSB Hades through my FX Crown and they are one of the best, if not the best hunting pellet I have ever used.

[@lorenray9479]

You answered the q of why do alloy pellets shoot huge groups and crack so loudly? Standard weights or heavier are best in high power air guns! Accuracy and stealth!

[@robert7984]

Hello again from the states. Another top notch video. I learn a lot from you sir so, thank you. My air guns are .177 up to 357 cal. I enjoy them all but at the end of an air-gun target shooting day, my .177's always seem to be in my hand! I just purchased the Air Venturi Avenger PCP in .25 cal. I was blown away! What an affordable beast! 980fps with a 25.4 grain pellet, and this was my first shot out of the box with the factory presets! The accuracy is mind boggling...as is the low price of $299.00 US! Can you do a review? I believe its marketed world wide but it may carry a different name .Thanks you again Andy for a quality channel with quality and enjoyable content! Looking forward to the .25 stuff you mentioned in this video too! Cheers!

[@petersimon6222]

you are a brave man to tackle this one well done loved the video

[@tiberius8390]

Slower projectiles of course arc more. If they take longer to the target, gravity has more time to pull them down. Thus you need to aim higher (or have your scope adjusted to aim higher for that matter) at the same distance than the (smaller) faster projectile. That is simple physics. A thing to consider is penetration. If you penetrate the say... pigeon with a fast .177 that means a lot of that energy is lost. A bigger caliber tends to put more energy into the target as it gets higher resistance and will penetrate a bit less. (of course you don't want to under-penetrate either). So with a bigger caliber like .22, even if not perfectly hit the energy put into the target might be enough to kill it where a .177 slightly less accurate hit might penetrate and not stop the target. So it really also depends on the target what caliber and grains to use. You want the bullet to go into the target, but not through it. But I guess you can make a science debate out of everything. 🤷‍♂️ (That is why the type of bullet (e.g. an expanding bullet) plays an important role, too)

[@dmp2000uk]

Excellent explanation and summary of the details. I now have the understanding to make an informed decision when I purchase my gun. P.S. I prefer the modern term ‘retained energy’ rather than the old rather vague phrase ‘stopping power’. Just a change in terminology provides clarity. Good vid.

[@ken244]

I live in USA and have all the calibers too. Just purchased a HW 77 in .177. I'm waiting on delivery so I can only say factory specs claim (up to) 950fps. I picked .177 for the flatter trajectory. Great videos BTW.

[@huskypup3489]

I've owned both .177 and .22 air rifles, both in the range of 900 to 1200 FPS. The .22 seemed much more effective, especially against larger creatures like geese.

[@aluckyshot]

Why the heck are you shooting geese 🤣

[@douglasthompson2740]

I am in complete agreement with you. Same argument in big game hunting applies; hitting where you aim is everything. For me and perhaps others who have to watch their money, the .177 offers the best price in ammo so that I can shoot a lot. Shooting your rifle a lot leads to that accuracy you should be looking for. Absolutely nothing beats trigger time. I have a couple of new spring guns on the way and would be very interested in a source of "sample packs".

[@andrewadam9544]

i owned two BSA R10 177 and 22 , i'd shot a 22 for dozens of years for vermin control and always poo pood the 177 but i'd never really owned one or given it a chance, when i joined a target club i bought the 177 r10. lets just say after a couple of weeks the 22 hardly saw the light of day again, my main pastime was rabbit control, i could take head shots all day long with the .177 out to fifty yards ( i did re zero at fifty as i shot across a little ravine which was exactly 50 yrd from lip to lip on one of my permissions) a very accurate rifle. the calibre argument isnt limited to air rifles, i now shoot centre fire and hear all the time from those that say a .243 (6mm) isnt enough for large deer especially reds, well the ones i have shot with it would tend to disagree ! too often increased calibre is touted as being favourable....usually by those that cant hit a barn door at 100 yrds and think extra mass equates to better killing power, a 50 call centre fire will certainly kill a wildebeast even if you hit it in the back leg, but its not nice and its not quick, excellent accuracy and speed beats size every time (within limits)

[@joelex7966]

Great video, very informative. One of the variables is rifling, particularly the rate of twist. Typically the faster the twist the heavier pellet it will perform best with. To a point of course. In black powder rifles they use a slow twist for round balls and a much faster twist for Minnie balls. If you fire a Minnie ball in a round ball barrel it will fail to stabilize and tumble. Firing a round ball in a Minnie ball barrel will possibly strip the ball or over spin it causing the ball divert from point of aim. Just something to consider.

[@lindsayheyes925]

Just what I needed to crystallise a decision. Thank you.

[@ArdyAryan]

Love the channel Andy! Also, your accent makes everything sound more legit!

[@unclehornet5122]

Nice video Andy. I have had people tell me that a .177 pellet is too small and can over penetrate. I don’t find it matters much if you over penetrate a pests brain! That being said, I love the H&N terminator as it is accurate in my gun out to 40 yards and has good knock down even on mega rats!

[@dcrcgrah]

Cheers

[@pierreevenceavaux6827]

Excellent video; one of your best. Thanks!

[@jdmbraceyourself695]

Went with the .22 and love it.

[@philipdorey4651]

I think I’ve become an AAR groupie! Nice Ficus.

[@exspliffit]

As I thought, stick with my JSB heavies 10.34gr in .177. thanks Andy

[@TargetBreaker1234]

D34DSHOT 100% right mate - highly accurate and deliver up to 60 yards no problem. Same as bisley magnums or hn variations

[@exspliffit]

@@TargetBreaker1234 the only 2 pellets I use are JSB heavy and bis mags.

[@sherlockbatmanholmes892]

Hey, American viewer here. Love seeing pellet and air gun enthusiasts around the world. I am curious. I hear a lot of people in the UK say “point two two” when talking about the calibre but in the states we say “twenty two.” Is it a culture thing? Kinda like “12 bore” vs “12 gauge?”

[@Bry25able]

Great review, thank you.

[@birdmanfree1651]

Just found your channel. A breath of fresh air in that you use lots of eaily followed figures (so long as any viewer understands simple maths and physics, although a brief video explaining momentum might help those who struggle. Maybe? Or maybe not?). Thanks

[@waynes9275]

great info, I had to pause alot to convert the metric over to USA. Worth it!!!!