#180

In this video we're taking a closer look at DAW mode and DAW control in general from the latest generation of all in one mixing console, interface & control platforms. It's not as simple as you might want it to be when you're routing so much audio and control through one surface, with everything pulling double and often triple duty.
Is it worth it? Is it practical? Does it benefit your workflow in a meaningful way? All questions that are worth asking before you part with a pile of cash for any piece of audio gear.
More videos, resources and fun at www.dcsoundop.com/NativeDAW
Check out ‪@NeilParfittMusic‬ & his series on the MacPro Rack in his studio @ / @neilparfittmusic
‪@HomeStudioCorner‬ Why I don't use DAW Mode - • Why I don't use DAW mo...
‪@sweettreeproductions2149‬ Wing vs M32 Shootout - • Behringer Wing vs Mida...
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Consider using the following links if you're shopping for gear from this video.
Behringer - amzn.to/3fpktcA
PreSonus - amzn.to/2UZRRPF
PreSonus 64s - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
PreSonus NSB 16.8 - amzn.to/2zQiQVW
NSB 16.8 Stagebox - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
NSB Rack Kit - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
Behringer Wing - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
Midas DL16 - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
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[@urbannpa]

One thing I did learn since the early 2000's...stay away from AVID. Went out and got a universal controller that works with multiple software packages.

[@nseaman1998]

So I actually am a lighting designer, however I used to do a lot of audio and love your channel, but I’m actually building a lighting console with custom hardware(midi devices and audio mixers with midi) for a show I’m currently working on and COMPLETELY agree with this entire video haha. It definitely can be quite interesting using the “wrong” hardware to do what you want it to do. Keep up the great vids!

[@CYRUS-EJ]

Nice! Learn so much from this video.

[@the_newvoice]

Serious stuff here! Thanks!

[@DcSoundOp]

Thanks for watching!

[@jfilbert]

Love your studio cat!

[@DcSoundOp]

Me too!

[@jfilbert]

@@DcSoundOp

[@timbo3528]

I have no issues with my SL24 or 32SC with Reaper using MCU. Once you program a bunch of actions to various buttons on the StudioLive things work great.

[@MusicaMercy]

I love cat!

[@officialWWM]

I bought the 32sc and was a Reaper user. I found it simply easier to install the Studio One software and use that, cause the mixer works perfectly with that. I still use a mouse and keyboard but writing automation with the faders is a huge benefit to me.

[@DcSoundOp]

That's awesome to hear you're enjoying Studio One, it has been a lot of fun getting to know it better through the past few updates.

[@officialWWM]

DcSoundOp yes, I'm a week further in now and I've recorded a couple more songs and started mixing etc. I'm getting faster with it and learning a few tricks. I think it's awesome that it comes with Melodyne included! This mixer is also incredible, so overall, I'm very happy!

[@basementmidi]

Thank you so much for posting this. Right now, I am stuck with my Wing that partially works. I am forced to use my Mackie MCU to mix with, kinds of defeats the purpose of the wing. I did hear from Behringer who said updates are coming soon. I do hope sooner rather than later. The Wing has the potential to be a studio powerhouse. I hope Behringer are not stalling in order to release DAW functionality with their upcoming daw software.

[@DcSoundOp]

I know how you feel, the Wing user groups are tiring after a while. It’s hard to keep up with the rumors, what has been promised is coming next week, what bugs have been reported and which might have a chance of being fixed soon. Miss the days when they’d finish a product & send them out with a manual.

[@splodge9]

1.07 with DAW control is out now, FYI.

[@tonycarpenter-Makzimia]

I began my journey in 1984 on a Tascam 244. Over the years as things went digital I went with Roland VS880 and then a VS1880. Eventually when I went to PC and then Mac I was with a mouse and keyboard combination for a LONG time. In 2013 or 14 I got my first controller. Mackie MCU Pro what a heavy beast. Along with Logic Pro X it was somewhat reliable, even on version 4.03 it was a bit twitchy on start up often enough to be annoying!!. The Behringer X-touch I replaced it with has been a lot more stable, and has only one issue, why are the little windows so hard to read!. Now I have the Studio Live 16 series 3. I am itching to get into it but various house projects and a new screen that turned up with a problem are slowing me down. From a quick check as I updated the firmware it sounds great, clean, faders moved nice and smooth. If you are going to use a control surface you definitely want as tight interaction as you can. If you don't have that, it's a big mouse and keyboard as you say.

[@DcSoundOp]

Hi Tony, thanks for the message. My first recorder was also a Tascam Portastudio, though it was a 424 some years later than yours. I had a Mackie MCU for a brief period and was also surprised by how HUGE it was when it first showed up. It took me a long time to be happy using only keyboard shortcuts, but they are free & reliable and don't change between versions usually. All the best!

[@TheMixClub]

the controller i like the best is my softube console 1.

[@cankutbayhan]

For home recording this is the pinnacle, 4 channels of preamp precision, and AD/DA for sure. Rest is to fiddle.

[@DcSoundOp]

What type of recording are you doing in your home studio? It's always interesting to hear what everyone is working on & how they approach the same tools. Thanks for the message Cankut.

[@cankutbayhan]

@@DcSoundOp i can always post a guitar channel, but as many i would like to make it kick where it needs to be.

[@robertharker]

What you are looking for is a USB "fat channel" set of controls. Like on the Soundcraft Si Expression 1 mixer or better yet the Yamaha RIVAGE PM10 console. Dedicated knobs laid out in a logical fashion. Preferably in a separate modest sized unit you could place above your mouse. Neither the StudioLive or the WING have fat channel control knobs. A preamp section with gain, pan, hpf, motorized fader and other input controls. A dynamics section with threshold, attack, release and ratio knobs for expansion and compression. An EQ section with 5 bands of frequency, gain and Q knobs, 15 knobs total. All of these knobs would use rings of LEDs and some micro LED screens to indicate current settings and parameters. LED buttons would enable/disable or switch specific functions. LED bar graphs for level and compression could be included. Your workflow would start with working on a track (channel) in the DAW or application. When you select the track with the mouse, the fat channel is also automatically switched to this new channel with parameter settings. Mouse over to the next track, the fat channel is switched again. This eliminates most of your complaints about the intellectual disconnect between using the mouse and the control surface. The difference between making creative choices or navigating the UI, menus and control surface to find what you are looking for. For example when working on a track in ProTools you don't have to open the EQ window to make a change to the track you are working on, you can just reach over and twist a knob. A knob that is is dedicated to the function in a fixed location you can reach for. You know, like on an analog console. The other benefit is that knobs encourage you to adjust with your ears. You can listen to the change as you twist the knob. You don't have to pay attention to where your mouse is or typing on the keyboard. Sadly there is no product on the market like this. The few fat channel controls are part of expensive larger digital mixers with a large screen, moving faders and multi-channel analog I/O. In a studio these controls are too far away from your mouse to use comfortably. What I described has 20-25 knobs. About the same number of the knobs of a Behringer BCR2000 which listed for less than $200 a few years ago. Knobs with led rings and buttons are cheap and simple to impliment. Some vendor should be able to build a dedicated fat channel for a MSR of less than $500. Take a look at the fat channel on the Soundcraft Si Expression 1 mixer as a good example of an inexpensive layout.

[@moe47988]

Robert Harker Look into the pro tools dock, it’s exactly what you described.

[@BR_READDY225]

@@moe47988 that’s just a dock that doesn’t even come with a tablet

[@moe47988]

@@BR_READDY225 And? It does what the guy is looking for, it's a fat channel

[@mathyoooo2]

This looks like it'd slow down my workflow more than it'd speed it up

[@stevieswoodandthings3329]

Would be fantastic if you could do a video showing what can be used on the studio live series 3 with reaper. There is virtually nothing available to watch and whilst I am thinking of buying an S32 to use with reaper it’s a lot of dosh when you don’t know the full extent of the functionality. Thanks for the video. Really good.

[@InstallationMan1171]

Can you use Studio One and the SLIII console in DAW mode for live bands? I understand it takes the analog inputs but how would you route the Main LR fader from Studio One back into the SLIII console to FOH?

[@TheRickdoggie]

Yes, it's easy to do. Every channel on the StudioLive consoles lets you choose between four different types of inputs: Analog, USB, AVB (network) or SD Card. You can have any combination of analog inputs or USB inputs that come up on input faders and can be mixed and routed where you want for you live show. If you need to tweak something in the DAW, just hit the DAW button and now you are controlling the faders of your DAW. Hope this helps!

[@VickersDoorter]

6:34 - The studio boss! BTW what is the small tablet you use at the beginning of the video?

[@DcSoundOp]

Just an iPad Mini 4 - thanks for the message!

[@paulartola9536]

Thanks for the interesting runthru on the Presonus, since the Wing is vaporware for now. I started 20 years ago with a mouse then asked what can "do it all?" as you do. In 2001, the answer was Ensoniq/Emu Paris. Great system but support? Dead, save the user community. In 2007, I move on to Reaper with a Tascam DM-4800. A little pricey, but trying to keep with the big boys...until support. Crickets. Dead. Since then, I use small controllers like the Novation Launch Control XL. Does it do all the extra control? Like you said, if I configured each function. Buy I found a used one for $80, it sits on my lap, and lets me control Reaper (and other DAWish sw) enough to leave my Paris and Tascam rigs (Oh yes, I still have them!) gathering dust in the basement!

[@urbannpa]

Was there DAW control support for Tascams DM-4800 for Window 10?

[@LoveMeBack]

@3.36 which keyboard is that?

[@tjduval7550]

What are you using to hold the laptop and the extra screen for the studiolive?? When I bought my 64s I thought it came with pull out screen holders or somethin bcuz I saw this thumbnail lol

[@DcSoundOp]

Those are the PreSonus accessory shelf - amzn.to/3d84YaP - I cover them in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXXTomuZfcyUb5Y though they were more expensive back then when I filmed it. I'm surprised you were able to buy a StudioLive without the sales person or website suggesting the shelf to you, it pops up on every major website right away as a related accessory. Hope you're enjoying your mixer!

[@murraywebster1228]

Try integrating wing with Cubase

[@DcSoundOp]

Don't have the Wing anymore unfortunately. Thanks for the message though!

[@doublempro583]

How did you get a second monitor mounted on the presonus studiolive and what monitor is that?

[@DcSoundOp]

That's a cheap Neewer screen - amzn.to/2X4i4k3 mounted on one of the PreSonus shelf add-on they sell for that console - amzn.to/3iVUoWW - there is room to mount three of those shelves on the 64S.

[@pascalmerschaudio]

PreSonus is an amazing company, love this guys

[@DcSoundOp]

They really are genuinely good people over there & very generous with their time answering questions. Thanks for the message Pasquale!

[@robertharker]

The Yamaha PM1D had nice fat channel controlls.

[@DcSoundOp]

I’d take a PM1 or 5d still over a LOT of modern consoles... for almost any job. Would need more desk space though!

[@michaelklein4582]

How does the quality of the audio interface compare to lets say RME or Universal Audio USB interfaces? Are those two consoles rather live tools or do they do well in Recording and Music production ?

[@DcSoundOp]

RME and Universal Audio are in a different league than PreSonus or Behringer, I wouldn't think to compared them side by side honestly.

[@michaelklein4582]

@@DcSoundOp thank you, that’s what I thought! So these are rather live tools or for recording a Band rehearsal I guess?

[@BR_READDY225]

@@michaelklein4582 they can be used for live ooooooor in the studio, well the studio live 3 can

[@k1mgy]

Was that "DAW control" or "PAW control"?

[@nyambe]

What are your thoughts on the iostation 24c?

[@DcSoundOp]

I like it as a desktop interface, I’m still trying to get used to using it as a controller. The transport controls are handy & a single fader fits me better than a big control surface taking up too much of my desk. I’ll have a video on it soon when I’ve used it a bit more. Thanks!

[@nyambe]

@@DcSoundOp I am thinking of pulling the trigger on one. The main reason, no mouse/keyboard while tracking guitar/bass, main con: I wish it was a 2x4 I already have a ton of 2x2 i/o yet getting just the fadeport v2 seems silly since its 100€ difference. I am torn

[@davidkeller8084]

Cubase 12 may have the answer to this dilemma, check it out.

[@DcSoundOp]

Can you be any more specific? Maybe link to what you're talking about? Thanks for the message.

[@lesnerarie]

It will be helpful if DAW software designers will make the GUI for a touch screen jesters and just using a big multi touch screen to control the DAW basically like RAVEN MTI2.

[@TheRickdoggie]

PreSonus StudioOne is completely optimized for any touch monitor and also works with Raven.

[@sounnice2006]

Controlling other DAWS such as Cakwalk X3, If it wasn't tested, Can you find out? What setting needs to be setup. I Preferr Cakewalk not studio One.

[@dkkrecords]

I’m sure other cats been down this route....but you have the controller and have to make the mental adjustment to use it to justify the purchase when the mouse and keyboard are more intuitive.....and as tactile.......then weeks later you find yerself...kicking a kick from the motorized faders ...even though yu basically do the work with mouse and keyboard....the lights look good......and they can can be good toys for cats....

[@oscarsjoberg7920]

Have you tried Klinke, Control Surface Integrator, and DrivenByMoss4Reaper for Reaper?

[@halukkurtoglu126]

Hi. Don't know where to start but imho there is still no ideal control surface for a DAW . I was used to record in studios with large format consoles which had a meterbridge and lots of faders, eq, dynamics, solo, trim, pfl etc. etc. on every channel. There we used to work by ear and you could see all the settings in a glance and if you wanted to tweak the dynamics or eq on one channel or other channel you could do that in a second. You had the overview and you didn't need to bank channels or open a plug-in like we do on a channel by channel basis in our daws. It works lightning fast and it doesn't kill my creativity, ok you had no totall recall like we do have now but what I would wish is that there was a control surface which mimicks a large format console with all the channel strips and lots of motorized faders, an eq and dynamic section, busses and a master fader with dynamics but all with total recall so that you could say control the whole mixer and standard dynamics, eq and gain from Logic and yes I know Daws have to support it but that would be amazing. Yes you have digital mixers but almost none of them have dynamics and eq knobs on each channel and no meterbridge. What do you think? You know Harrison mixbus 32c DAW, that concept but in the form a digital daw controller. with no dsp's built in like the Behringer Wing or others have.Would be amazing. Thanks for your time.

[@DcSoundOp]

I agree, like I said in the video, I mostly edit with shortcuts and don't find myself finding much value in DAW controllers for what they actually bring to the work I do. That being said, my workflow is probably not the same as someone wanting to mix a demo or band recording at home. It really depends on how you work and what your priorities are. Thanks for the message.

[@AdamFoldes]

It would be all fantastic if it was true... In reality DAW control with Presonus is extremely sluggish and a PITA - at least with bigger projects (SL 32III). On the other hand the WING doesn’t have touch-sensitive faders, so even if they implement DAW control down the road (which is likely since there is a dedicated button on the desk), it is yet to see how will it work really... 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@DcSoundOp]

There is certainly a lot of work left to be done to be useable in every situation. The video I mentioned from Joe Gilder pretty much echos what you’re saying & how I feel... By the time I think to use it I’ve already finished what I was doing with a shortcut. I agree that the lack of touch faders on the Wing is a huge mistake! Thanks for the message Adam.

[@AdamFoldes]

DcSoundOp I haven’t seen that very video yet, I will have to check it out. But Presonus’ system should already be free from bugs since they introduced DAW-control 2 years ago or so... however it is not. Not even with Studio One. The last time I had a good experience with a controller was with Pro Tools and a D-command. That made sense. But I had to drop AVID due to their business model, - as you mentioned in the video - it’s not for people who live from a salary... 😆

[@BR_READDY225]

What bugs are you talking about? Because I literally have no problem using my 32s with studio one

[@artysanmobile]

I was not impressed with the Wing on first release but expected more. The fact I hear absolutely nothing about it anymore speaks volumes. I guess it did suck.

[@DcSoundOp]

Eh, there's a pretty active bunch of user groups on facebook with apx. 10k members each, still chatting about them regularly. I don't follow too close, but folks are out there using them still.

[@artysanmobile]

@@DcSoundOp Thanks for this.

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

DAW CONTROLS... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJvIgZ-rlJ6Kgc0