18650 DIY Powerwall Balancing Act

[@Dingbat217]

Five times 1.7 equals maths, who knows! I love your comments Pete. :-) Why don't you mount that block of longmons somewhere where you can reach each cell pack with a couple of long wires, that way you can have the balancing block in a fixed position and when you need to balance a block you simply move the long wires to the right cell pack and let it do it's thing. This is of course provided that the communication bus to the longmons is isolated from the cells it's attached to but I think it must be or you would not have been able to simply add more when a new pack is added to the system.

[@mrhypno1984]

I love how you impromptu know WTF you are doing. It isn't stupid if it works! This is why I can watch every one of your vids over and over. Cheers Pete!

[@HBPowerwall]

+mrhypno1984 thanks bud :)

[@WillemAsselbergs]

This is truly incredible stuff. This is the way computing was in the past. Your control center is quite sophisticated. Once you "dumb" that down, make it simple, and as you advance, regular users can get into this also. That is where the future is for this for sure. You sure are showing the way though. Thanks for sharing.

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank-you for your comment

[@SidneyCritic]

Just thinking out aloud for a a quick change busbar Have a vertical busbar with plastic strips perpendicular over the batteries. Drill a small hole in the plastic strip over each cell,. Solder a pin to a small neodymium magnet. Put the pin of the magnet through the hole and solder a stopper on the pin end so the magnet can move up and down maybe 5mm - this will account for different distance to the cell -. Then solder fuse wire from the pin stopper to the busbar.

[@korishan]

Neat way to bring the packs down quickly. Smart Thinking! Just a quick note, longmons could of been on the same side as the fan as the air would of been passing over the resistors. And, maybe a lil shroud to help direct the air closer to the longmons. But looks like it worked fairly flawlessly :)

[@HBPowerwall]

Definitely could have been done better or smarter, but kinda turned out well.. I'll leave it for someone else to improve upon :)

[@korishan]

LOL Yep :)

[@dash8brj]

I've been looking for a BMS for when I go lithium, and keep coming back to Batrium. Sure its pricy, but its a pretty cool setup. You just MacGyvered up a gadget using the longmons to make it even more useful. I think I'm sold :)

[@HBPowerwall]

Tell em pete sent ya lol, To be honest, this gear is so good i wouldn't have a powerwall any more if I didn't have the Batrium BMS

[@tazdvil3376]

Well done Pete. Another good video full of instruction and intuition ;-)

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank you Tony!

[@BrunoPOWEEER]

Yeaahhh what a brilliant idea saving these BlackMons using as a "smart / fancy software controllable resistor" You ROCK dude!!!!

[@HBPowerwall]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDe you ROCK heaps more Pooooower!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@arleneallen8809]

Hobby/gaming computer enthusiasts use liquid cooling these days for extreme overclocking. An AIO liquid cooling system might be very useful in the context of powerwall cooling. As always, love your real world approach to these videos.

[@HBPowerwall]

Water and power - dam that'd give the burn ya house down crew some thing else to wine about lol

[@arleneallen8809]

:) Computing community reacted that way for a while. A bit scary. Now water cooling home computers is common. I mentioned it because these are off the shelf units you buy from the computer stores. Don't need to invent or cobble together anything.

[@l0k048]

@@HBPowerwall you don't need to use water, you can use coolants that are not conductive

[@jahirulislamshovon9256]

Sir, active balancer or passive balancer which is preferred? Can they be used simultaneously in 18650 pack?

[@HBPowerwall]

Passive is my choice, don't use both.. just get a www.batrium.com BMS and never look back

[@ahaveland]

Nice creative solution Pete! I think I would have added another cell in parallel with a smidge lower voltage, or made an extra 3S battery to include the high cell and use it to drive the lipo charger to charge another offline cell, and keep most of the energy!

[@HBPowerwall]

Energy lost is negligible and easier just to burn than to bugger around with :)

[@ahaveland]

True, and ok for an exceptional case, but it would add up over time if happened regularly - there has to be a better way to redistribute charge amongst cells than bleeding it off, and I'm going to try to make a system to do it!

[@borisalexandergonzalezmaru4278]

GOOD AFTERNOON FRIEMD PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ARE THE ME ASURES OF THE SHEET WHERE THE TOWERS ARE THANKS?

[@HBPowerwall]

Sorry don't understand..

[@tommieronen7424]

Is it possible to balance that cell by connect it parallel with other cells? If the current is too high, calculate what size resistor you need between?

[@HBPowerwall]

Yep done that in the past - all 14cells with little balance leads so not too much current can pass - they get bit warm but only for a short time.

[@SidebandSamurai]

I really love your videos. Very educational. When you speak of "Cell" in your battery, are you talking about one battery pack that has 70 18650s in them?

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, I refer 1 x 80P battery as a Cell - right or wrong that's how I've always done it :)

[@chrispfeil6605]

Love the camera changes to the music 😊

[@HBPowerwall]

I'm still learning lol

[@chrispfeil6605]

HBPowerwall it’s goooood!

[@frankchristensen5778]

Hi P:ete, Try mounting longmons flat on one side of the grid and the fan on the opposite side [blowing or sicking...] This would be more robust and probably more efficient cooling. Cheers, Frank.

[@HBPowerwall]

good idea, take up less room too :)

[@frankchristensen5778]

My thought exactly. Also less chance of damage, installed or packed away... Cheers from Perth mate.

[@jamest.5001]

how much balance current does the longmons have? I need a BMS/ balancing system. for a 7s bank. I hope it nears the capacity of yours! I plan to only pull about 3kw peak for short durations. fridge and freezer running. while TV and lights . so I dont use all that much power. well you answered part of my question. 1.7 amps bal. current. is that all four ? or each? I would like to have a balancer that could pull 5-10a . if needed. so I can get on with charging. a variable balance current would be a great idea for large banks. for now I will manually balance. and monitor. I nope the over/ under volt protection the inverter has doesn't fail. otherwise all should be well. great video. I'm working my way through 300 cells as a start on my bank. I am off grid!

[@HBPowerwall]

it is 1.7a per longmon (fully configurable to anything under that ) over and under volt it taken care of by Batrium if the inverter/charger fails Batrium will trigger shunt trip shutting EVERYTHING down

[@parita.patel.593]

Extremely Excellent 👍 Video Clip information 👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌👌

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks and welcome

[@AveRage_Joe]

That was a great little mod!!! 👍

[@HBPowerwall]

thank you sir !

[@evilutionltd]

A nice little air duct from the fan to direct air over the monitor boards would be a good idea. Got a 3D printer to make something?

[@HBPowerwall]

hummm 3D printer... lol the want is strong. I really could go crazy with this idea or leave it for what it is and roll with it. Could make is super sexy and tidy printed up lol

[@bosdad7]

LOL I can tell Jehu has been giving you video editing tips.

[@HBPowerwall]

bos dad been trying to improve:)

[@sebastianmiceli]

Another good idea is to put a cooler in all the long moduls!

[@HBPowerwall]

how so ?

[@sebastianmiceli]

The same way you put in it this devise, but in the wall. A cheap and nice upgrade!

[@sebastianmiceli]

You can keep it simple only with the sensor and testing when it cuts. Just an idea... lot of work as always!

[@squidlings]

I was wondering... on a sunny day, does the power from the pannels, always go direct to the powerwall, then into your house appliances, or if for instance you have the washing machine on, will the washing machine pull the current direct from the pannels if it's available and the remaining amps charges the wall? If you've answered this previously apologies, I've looked through your 1001 videos... Im sure I'll watch them one buy one as I build my wall. Sooo excited.

[@HBPowerwall]

The MPP Solar Inverter is set to SBU mode - (Solar > Battery > Utility mode) So it does just that, uses the solar generated power first with excess going to charge battery or if there is insuffient solar it will draw all from solar and remainder from batteries. I hope this helps. Pete

[@squidlings]

HBPowerwall brilliant! You are a star. U should put a Bitcoin donation wallet address in your video information links. I'll happily contribute for your dedication to unravelling this powerwall mystery.

[@glennlockey1012]

As always. Awesome......

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank-You Glenn

[@malcolm.john.thompson]

Here's a challenge for ya! Or maybe your viewers - design an inexpensive hot swap battery holder for a power wall that's easy to swap the battery out. Add an email alert for the Raspbien junkies.

[@ursodermatt8809]

yes i think the bms balancers should have stronger current resistors. not just the batrium, i mean all of them.

[@HBPowerwall]

Definitely worth a thought.. Remember that the longmons are now 5-7 years old in their design and never meant for such unbalanced banks of batteries. The design was for new batteries that have FAR less chance of going out of balance. That said, once balanced well and you figure out your charge controllers voltage and the balance voltage of the longmons I'm lucky to see one longmon go red per week. And even then there is a fair chance its cloud edge responsible for the 'over voltage'

[@ursodermatt8809]

i agree with you. but keep in mind when the battery cells get older, their capacities might change. not necessarily evenly. that is when a larger capacity shunt might come in handy. similar to the content of the video you just put online.

[@HBPowerwall]

even then after years, the time it would need to balance daily would be ever so minimial it wouldn't be worth the extra expense of larger resistors. Remeber there is a fine line between a product having a long and happy life and something COOKING its self to death. it's a balancing act that i think the longmons have nailed!

[@ursodermatt8809]

yes there is a fine line. however there is another lifepo4 user that has two balancing boards on cells installed, because of low shunting capacity. the way i see it, a bit more capacity won't hurt but comes in handy when you do need it. and yes to me that batrium looks a first class product. with hindsight i would have installed it too. particularly the feature to adjust the voltage when it starts bleeding is really great. (so i suppose when the capacities diverge you could lower that voltage a bit)

[@ursodermatt8809]

on an other batrium matter, can the batrium software be accessed via ethernet?

[@arklanbk]

just checking, the way your fusible links work is they blow when one of ur cells goes bad right? its not gonna go bad and bring down other cells with it?

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, they work well too as it turns out - drop a spanner on it - all fuses instantly blow, one 18650 cell gets hot (typically this is due to internal failure) it starts to suck power from rest of cells blowing a single fuse. Also the way it's built if the whole pack gets physically impacted there is a fair chance the fuses will also break

[@AJB2K3]

Is there going to be a software version for linux on the Raspberry pi?

[@HBPowerwall]

That'll help ya out - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zn20gX2wbb5kn5o

[@onuralpozsoy92]

You have lots of free energy. Why don't you install ac to battery storage area?

[@HBPowerwall]

+sumechastu money/wife

[@nilobualoy117]

Pls recommend balancing device which is affordable price not only BATRIUM , which too expensive. Thanks

[@HBPowerwall]

There are 100's of other BMS out there, I love the price point of the Batrium as it is a TRUE BMS not just a balancer.

[@lqlq4]

Love the video editing (y)

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank-You

[@santoroma17]

Whats you're: KWh capacity now KWh in/out on a normal day Thanks Pete!

[@HBPowerwall]

+Matthew Santoro 40kwh storage 10kwh ish per day from battery abouy 12-15kwh direct from solar per day

[@james10739]

One if the times you fast forwarded it sounded like people on a roller coaster

[@HBPowerwall]

Totally planed lol

[@MGunderm]

Nice. Do you mind if I copy this idea?

[@HBPowerwall]

+M Gunderm go for it. Improve and share!!

[@davidcollins553]

are you going to give the batteries a temperature control system?

[@HBPowerwall]

Great Question: Much thought has been put into this question. My battery has a max amp draw of 80 amps. The battery 320s 14p. 80 amps divide by 320 is 0.25amps max draw per cell. In my 4 hour load test of just 520 cells at 1000watts granted was only 24v at the time it took 4 hours at that current to raise the temp of the cells. So cooling the cells.. Nop will never need to do it. NOW air temp *because Australia* is another issue. Fans and all the parts have been ordered so that before summer hits i can not so much cool the sheds as keep them a constant temp all over each shed. Fans will be installed and controlled by the WatchMon BMS based on the 120 temp sensors in the sheds. There will probably be two separate systems in both sheds one to draw fresh cool air into the sheds and another to circulate the air with in the sheds.

[@ahaveland]

Pete, here's an idea I've had for a while to visualize the temperature of every cell. This company www.hallcrest.com/custom-temperature-indicators can make custom liquid crystal thermometer strips and for various temperature ranges. I think it'd be really cool to stick them on the sides of each cell and watch them change colour with temperature - any hot spots could be quickly identified without having to spend thousands on a FLIR camera. However, a lot depends on how cheap the strips can be made, given that hundreds, or thousands would be required. Thermochromic paint or heatshrink that changed colour at 60 °C would also be really useful. (Instead of using lots of wires, a video camera and raspberry pi could monitor the colours and report any anomalies.)

[@DIYTechRepairs]

Add some kind of air director that pushes the air to the long mons. Smart idea though :)

[@HBPowerwall]

Done over would have used a 5v fan not 12v lol would have pushed a lot more air.. never mind worked well and i'm sure someone will take the idea and improve it

[@phizicks]

I actually thought to lie them across the holes and the fan on the other side of the holes. no more direct than that. the current setup I thought the fan was on the wrong side since the resister components are on the other side of the longmon so not sure if it's working right as shown.

[@fourzerofour7860]

So, I heard you reference being able to use those longmon's as 'dumb' or what I presume you mean as 'stand alone'. Do you have a video about doing such a thing? Or could you give me some more info? Thanks.

[@HBPowerwall]

No I really meant dumb - longmons are only part of the story - without the watchmon you can't tell the longmons what they need to do in the first instance.

[@fourzerofour7860]

Ah, okay. So the Watchmon can be disconnected at some point and the longmons will keep doing their jobs, but the Watchmon is necessary to configure them in the first place?

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, it is also needed to do data logging WM1 had 10 yrs logging WM4 has 20x more data logging room

[@dtec30]

peter did you get the spot on your hand @ 6:49 checked ?

[@HBPowerwall]

Don't do doctors ... and i'm not kidding

[@dtec30]

aww pete is the mark still there ? dermatologist ?

[@HBPowerwall]

it's a mole been there since birth

[@dtec30]

ok apologies for some reason i got worried will leave you to it ps have a happy fathers day tomorrow cheers buddy

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for your concern buddy it's probably a bad thing to have on a human but I'm happy to run with it as my hate of doctors goes deep into my past hahah i'll probably die of some disease that was around in the dark ages and been curable for decades lol

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

heya nice balacing act

[@haxby2008]

Why not just connect the new fully charged cell via a 50w halogen bulb to the rest of the pack? The current will flow through the bulb and charge the rest of the pack. Once equalized the current will stop itself and you can remove the bulb and reconnect the cell to the pack.

[@HBPowerwall]

+Phil Pawlowski because it's not very youtubie & I can monitor it. It was just an idea didn't really know if it would have worked.

[@twcstransam]

Really a heat gun is that fast and isn't a flame

[@HBPowerwall]

your right it's more predictable and controllable.

[@twcstransam]

HBPowerwall thanks for the info and work, very inspiring

[@dufung3980]

Why are you running at 4.1?

[@HBPowerwall]

4.2 would be unsafe, 4v too little capicity :)

[@dufung3980]

I'm a big believer in dropping voltage for LCOS.

[@HBPowerwall]

LCOS?

[@dufung3980]

Levelized cost of storage, how much output and therein value you get over the product life.

[@ondrejbrandejsky5592]

How much did it cost you? And do you think you will ever get your money back?

[@HBPowerwall]

Made my money back about 12 months ago

[@ondrejbrandejsky5592]

HBPowerwall how?

[@HBPowerwall]

Stop thinking about it as power savings and starting thing of it as a KZbin project that earns money

[@ondrejbrandejsky5592]

HBPowerwall oh now i understand. Thank you

[@peterfaber9316]

Yeah, I know you better. 😁

[@HBPowerwall]

hahaha well said pete

[@zBanditGuy]

seizure alert at 3:03

[@AJB2K3]

I'm lazy, I use my soldering iron on heatshrink.

[@HBPowerwall]

Noooo don't do it lol

[@AJB2K3]

lol, never had a problem doing it but the new station now has hot air.

[@HBPowerwall]

Hot air is good - :)

[@alexrustick9734]

bring back the long hair

[@HBPowerwall]

Done - you gona tell wife or me ?

[@alexrustick9734]

just tell her with the money you save on haircuts you can buy more batterys

[@HBPowerwall]

I'm scared....

[@Furiends]

weird. you call them cells but written on them is "bank." Neither of which is accurate. A typical usb charger or laptop battery bank is a bank of three batteries in series with 2 cells in parallel. Of course a bank of batteries (plural) can also be called a bigger battery (singular). Yet a bank is a bank and a cell is a cell.

[@HBPowerwall]

i'll run with you on this one..