191: Bodybuilding Biomechanics Part 1 w/ Kassem Hanson & Mike Israetel

[@5dollarshake263]

I'm currently in a phase where I am fully addicted and currently binge watching every single Mike Israetel video I can get my hands on , I feel like I've unlocked generations of weight training knowledge in the last 6 days of listening to him and its super exciting

[@belt1749]

Make sure you get your minimum effective dose of his videos per week from here on out

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

SAME

[@doug2993]

Same here, been going for about 2 weeks now. lol

[@martijn703]

You should check out the RP youtube channel. He does weekly webinars answering questions. Plus tons of other interesting stuff: kzbin.info/door/fQgsKhHjSyRLOp9mnffqVg

[@theylivewesee1674]

@@belt1749 nah this dude is overreaching his MRV for quite some time, he needs to deload asap

[@Damian_Materowski]

I really like the way, how Steve, as a host is listening and learning, not even ZEEERO interrupting, 100% knowledge absorbing :)

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks! Yes, he tries his very best to give the stage to the guest :) - Pascal

[@segason6]

Maybe bring back Coach Kassem some other time in the future by himself to talk more about a certain (doesn’t have to be specific) topic and explore more his principles. I feel like this discussion (at least this first part) got derailed a bit towards a specific pre/post exhaust hypothetical scenario that kinda came out of the blue haha. However, the back and forth between the two was cool and entertaining to listen to.

[@jordanholcombe9153]

I agree with this. Good discussion but pretty hyperspecific debate, would love to hear kassem talk more about his principles and coaching style

[@shawnsansom6450]

Really valuable conversation happening here. Unlike most roundtables, there is a considerable amount of disagreement. A lot to think about.

[@ReviveStronger]

Very happy to hear you liked it! - Pascal

[@GagoGamesYT]

I can't get enough of this, thank you Steve for getting all of this amazing people on the podcast

[@GagoGamesYT]

And you too pascal, thank you for editing the podcast, I'm sure it'd be a lot harder to get them uploaded without you, #ReviveStronger

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks a tonne for the words! Means a lot and yeah, that's what a team is made of, right? :) - Pascal

[@Ryanhardenn]

Dudes dying from deadly viruses in China, and I’m chilling watching an hour debate on the order of leg extensions and squats Lol what a time to be alive

[@N1education]

RyanHarden/Fitevolution we often forget how much of a blessing it is to get to do these things. For some people a calorie deficit isn’t a choice. Grateful to be able to share this passion.

[@ReviveStronger]

My saying, it's a privilege and just shows that we're at the top of the hierarchy of needs - Pascal

[@Huffman_Tree]

@@ReviveStronger One month later - we're all fucked. Lol

[@dmitriholman9151]

This didn't age well

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

@@dmitriholman9151 LOL truth

[@ricklee1756]

I do find the argument for starting with the more technical and systemically fatiguing movement (squats) and following-up with the more isolated and less technical movement second (leg extensions) to be persuasive. Using that smaller movement to drive local fatigue home makes sense.

[@ReviveStronger]

Happy to hear that you seem to agree - Pascal

[@Chaosdude341]

Technical is to start because you can fuck it up the most. Pretty difficult to fuck up leg press compared to snatches, jerks, etc.

[@AdamNeth]

Awesome to see Kassem and Mike together discussing programming! Thanks for putting this together, Steve!

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for tuning in :) - Pascal

[@codymoxley5293]

I really liked the discussion on the nuances of pre vs post-exhaust and to hear both sides. I'd like to see a series with Kassem, either by himself with Mike or with other guests, going through more topics.

[@ReviveStronger]

We can probably make that happen - Pascal

[@DerikScott]

Let’s go!!! Kassem and Mike are awesome. Fantastic podcast and content.

[@N1education]

Thank you Derik. We could have went for hours.

[@Kellon_D]

Hell yeah Derik

[@kassemhanson731]

Thanks D! appreciate you

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for the support Derik! - Pascal

[@BC4SelfImprovement]

Wow the depth of this conversation is on another level. Love these discussions about these small technicalities most lifters don’t even think about!

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for tuning in! - Pascal

[@Anassomou]

They both make one ridiculously valid point after another! Great talk!!

[@N1education]

Anassomou 🙏

[@ReviveStronger]

Happy you seem to have liked it ;) - Pascal

[@beausanderson6932]

Finally he’s made it on the podcast 👌

[@ReviveStronger]

There he is/was - Pascal

[@byssheblackburn7597]

Thanks for all of your content - so much stimulus for growth.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks so much for listening - Pascal

[@louiscalvert1431]

Thank you for this, can't wait for part 2 You should definitely get Kassem on again to talk about the N1 approach to programming a periodisation!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you've enjoyed part 2 as much as part 1 - Pascal

[@Rt-kh4kl]

long waited debate , cannot wait for part 2 despite have not yet finished listening part 1lol 😂

[@N1education]

Roy Tsang 💪💪💪

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you've enjoyed them both! - Pascal

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

Man that went right over my head...im kind of happy that im in the phase in which i dont really think about this stuff... It would be cool tho if i ever get there haha

[@berrysliwa1]

Nice debate, i would say mostly hypothetical. The fact that those two greatly knowledgeable individuals have different POVs indicates to me that in practice there is probably no noticeable difference and both approaches will accomplish the task equally well.

[@ReviveStronger]

Very likely yes, or, meaningful difference over the timespan of a career perhaps - Pascal

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

Thats what came to my mind...how big of a real difference will this make on a large scale? If even any? Still interesting debate

[@griffingeode]

Very interesting talk. I'll definitely be rethinking my exercises, technique, and goals. But it seemed a little more creative and less scientific. Raised questions but didn't reach conclusions...yet. Looking forward to part 2

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope part 2 could give you a bit more of a conclusion - Pascal

[@SFSBuster]

Mike is just out of this world.

[@ReviveStronger]

I hope in a good sense - Pascal

[@SFSBuster]

@@ReviveStronger absolutely! :)

[@J90JAM]

Two of the best in the game rn 💪

[@ReviveStronger]

There you go! - Pascal

[@farhanpiruzdelan5761]

I think ive watched literally all of mikes videos here on youtube! All kinds of plateaus have been broken and now i feel like the advanced phase in bodybuilding could be conquered with all the stuff ive learned from mike. Obviously the learning process never ends but mike puts complex biological processes into simple and understandable formats/examples which is a fine show of intellectual finesse. Thanks mike for everything and don't stop thinking about all this shit even if only a handful of people might benefit from it . And ill definitely buy mikes upcoming book !!!

[@ReviveStronger]

That's it!!! - Pascal

[@yancasemiro9798]

Listening for the second time to really absorb these strategies. For instance, im changing the order of some exercises, putting some single joint exerc before compounds, like leg extensions before goblet squats for high reps, and Im seeing improvements. Thanks for the great content!

[@ReviveStronger]

Always a good idea, especially with episodes that are that packed! - Pascal

[@TheBoofer331]

As much as I can’t get enough of Dr. Israetel, the other gentleman whose name escapes me has the better point imo. The few pre-exhaustion studies I’ve seen have actually stated that when the isolation exercise is performed first, the targeted muscle’s activation is then DETRACTED from the following compound movement, and the other prime movers are thus targeted more. The result of pre-exhaustion is the opposite of what was classically intended!

[@N1education]

It's Kassem :) Yup, and this is actually a very well adapted mechanism designed to limit taking a specific muscle to a degree of failure. It's in the bodies best interest to avoid taking a muscle to a degree of failure where its function becomes so compromised that our ability to manage that joint is reduced to the point where we could no longer use it to fight/flee etc. These even happens in isolation movements, where multiple muscles cross the joints. The nervous system is a beautiful thing.

[@kevinhentz8797]

Yes but if you go and look at the volume research on pre exhaustion, the research is showing a greater amount of volume is possible by using pre-exaustion compare to post-exaustion. Since currently we see volume as one of the main drivers of hypertrophy, pre-exaustion could be seen as more beneficial for hypertrophy than post-exaustion.

[@N1education]

@@kevinhentz8797 a couple things, volume needs to be qualified before quantified IMO. this is a huge problem with these discussions is that volume is used without qualification. The way we see it is much more specific towards a given stimulus, and not all exercises, reps, sets are equal in terms of the volume towards that stimulus and the fatigue they impart that is not contributing to the goal stimulus. There is a place for both pre/post exhaust, its an extremely complex topic, that will depend on the goal stimulus, the exercises you are using, and the muscles/joints involved. This is a big reason that the debate seems to be irrelevant is that you can't apply many generalizations to a training system that is going to very much changing in its stimulus depending upon the individual variables. I regret getting into in this format without Mike and I being more on the same page. Definitely something we plan to try and clear up with some in house lab work this year. It's fun, but a LOT of context is needed before making any claims one way or another, and that needs to be clarified up front. Again apologies for the podcast moving in that direction. Should have had a clear direction for the discussion.

[@kevinhentz8797]

@@N1education I agree with you that much of these issues are complex and nuanced, which can lead to some of these "down the rabbit hole" discussions we sometimes see. I don't think you should be unhappy with the way this podcast came out as it can lead to more productive future discussions. I don't think volume is used without qualification, based on the current understanding of muscle hypertrophy and volume being one of it's driving mechanisms, it should be taken into account. I was using this example to show that just because we see one perceived negative of a protocol does not mean there may not be a positive (decreased muscle activation of pre-exhaust= negative, increased volume = possible positive). I also wanted to comment because the example of muscle activation is used in original comment but, as we have seen in some of your recent content on the hip thrust, EMG and perceived muscle activation do not always have a huge correlation with growth. Hip thrusts show a greater EMG activation while squats show a significantly greater hypertrophy result. I'm very interested in seeing the research you guys are planning working on!

[@N1education]

@@kevinhentz8797 activation is what he said, (which can have many meanings these days) but potentiation is likely what he meant or at least how i interpreted it. potentiation is a legitimate training tool. if he meant increases sensation, then ya, not so relevant.

[@scientifically_Fit]

"we are here to fuck your quads up with the squats" -mike israetel :'D

[@ReviveStronger]

Mark his words^^ - Pascal

[@boxerfencer]

Finally, Israetel finds his match. Im glad to see someone pointing out the shorting comings to the tipical preexhaust. I'd hate to be a fan boy; I know I'd be be crying my eyes out in some dark and damp corner after watching this.

[@MattMcLeod6]

We’re talking about lifting weights, let’s relax

[@segason6]

Matt McLeod 🤣🤣

[@ReviveStronger]

@Matt McLeod We're going to war!! At least that's what the big guys always make it out to be - Pascal

[@MattMcLeod6]

@@ReviveStronger lol apparently so, mate. Get that civil discourse shit outta here

[@doug2993]

This video popping up is like being a kid on Christmas morning, with multiple presents. I started a video with Dr Mike about 30 minutes ago. Can't wait to hear his thoughts on this video too. Thanks Steve!

[@ReviveStronger]

Hope you've consumed and devoured both by now - Pascal

[@sbconditioning4314]

Definitely 2 good sides. Don't know to much about the other dude, but I've taken N1 courses, and the depth and the knowledge those people possess is stuff you won't find easily anywhere else.

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for listening! - Coach Jess

[@artemis1127]

Lol same n1 education that doesn't even know whar a moment arm is? N1 is basically RTS taught by a child

[@liyaguliaieva1111]

What about a CNS activation? When I do a heavy lift first I definitely can lift more wait on second isolating exercise than vice versa despite I'm more fatigued

[@ReviveStronger]

What benefits are you hoping to get out of it? - Pascal

[@liyaguliaieva1111]

@@ReviveStronger much more total volume

[@funkdoc2001]

A Kassem Hanson practical seminar in the Uk would be great.

[@Kellon_D]

Alex Platt check the n1 website

[@ReviveStronger]

There you go! :) - Pascal

[@Lotusdreams]

TBH Podcast was not on topic very much but I liked the preexhaust vs I guess superset? discussion. For me personally both work but I highly prefer the isolation sandwich aka compound, iso, compound. This fixes almost any exercise that usually doesnt hit me very well if put as the third. I will say that if the squat was first Id feel like wasting my time but I know that's not what Kassem wants anyway, wed just pick a better exercise. IMO when preexhausted I can either hit the tired muscle hard or isolate other muscles way easier, both are possible, just a matter of my control and ability, not necessarily my structure

[@ReviveStronger]

Sounds reasonable! - Pascal

[@Ofunes96]

I think they both are right. Are both orders achieving the same goal? Yes. To the same degree of effectiveness and optimization? Maybe one is better than the other. Or maybe it depends on the individual. I think both are correct or one might be more correct than the other on paper, but I’m practice I think it probably depends. Two people with awful structures to squat might have success doing the opposite order. I think a good coach or lifter is willing to experiment with themselves or different clients and maybe one doesn’t workout. But that’s okay. Awesome discussion. Two very smart dudes!

[@ReviveStronger]

I agree with you! Thanks for sharing this and watching :) - Coach Jess

[@The10Daniel10]

The more Dr Mike the better 😂 GOAT Mike for 2020 😝😝

[@ReviveStronger]

Presedinteee - Pascal

[@jeffbunnell9961]

so if i'm not mechanically built for quad-dominant squats i should take more advantage of pre-exhaustion with leg press or machine squats? in the past when i've done leg press then front squats my quads got very sore in the days after. usually i don't feel squats in my quads but lower back, and i use a shoulder-width stance with weightlifting shoes. i have to cut my depth at just below parallel or my back starts to round too much.

[@N1education]

Jeff Bunnell you have options, so depending on what you have for equipment and the goal of the training program. In terms of the squat technique, using a heel elevation will help get the knees forward more and torso more upright without the increase in upper back involvement of the front squat. Pre/post exhaust both will have a differing stimulus /volume versus just replacing the squat with a hack squat for example. So the answer is it depends. You can change the tool you use for more quads depending on what suits both your mechanics and the physiological goal of them program.

[@N1education]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/npXMm2SEmrppjpo here is a breakdown on quad dominant squatting principles

[@N1education]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/npXMm2SEmrppjpo here is a breakdown of our quad dominant squat principles. Perhaps this can help you as well

[@ReviveStronger]

Imo. there's nothing wrong with playing with it. However, they may be other exercises that may give you what you're looking for without pre-exhaustion. - Pascal

[@hmvdhv]

Mike is right about the Systemic fatigue that makes us not want to do anything else........ And might be that takes away stimulus when we try to isolate a particular group.... (I think it is somewhat valid when pure Hypertrophy is standpoint) However Kassem's Approach seems slightly more appeaing, as we are stable in the leg extensions and that we can handle the systemic fatigue later by Squatting first

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks for watching and sharing :) - Coach Jess

[@coachpaul-vedicfitness]

Dr Mike is Numero Uno. Period 😅😋

[@ReviveStronger]

Haha, thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@ghostbc5214]

I've been on a mike streak I've probably spent a good 12-14 hours this week with all episodes with Mike..I think I still got a few to go 😅

[@ReviveStronger]

Haha enjoy! - Steve

[@joojotin]

You might wnat to interview Biomechanics expert Doug Brignole. Even if you dont agree with him because his methods are quite controversial. You could get huge amount of food of thought.

[@ReviveStronger]

I'll pass this on :) Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess

[@joojotin]

@@ReviveStronger :)

[@FitchFitchFitch]

This would be great

[@gretabellows9355]

Watching this after watching Dr Mikes compound sandwich video

[@boxerfencer]

About the community atmosphere for members, sorry Steve. We tried that in Facebook and we saw you covert it into a corporate atmosphere, clinically antiseptic, and devoid of community participation.

[@ReviveStronger]

Then help us out buddy. What makes you think that our group was/is that? :) If you give us proper reasons as to why you think that, we can work on improving things. - Pascal

[@jacowanted]

so fucking hyped up for this

[@ReviveStronger]

Yeah buddy! - Pascal

[@jacowanted]

@@ReviveStronger did you ever think about bringing Tom Purvis to the podcast? That would be an hell of a guest to listen to.

[@Biolo-G_KJ]

I'm wondering for months. How strong is still healthy? Like I'm 195-215lbs. And I squat 490lbs, bench and strict row almost 350, deadlift 550 etc etc. But is this still healthy and is me getting stronger still healthy if I mantain a healthy bodyfat. At what strength is it bad for you, your ligaments, bones, nervous system etc.

[@ReviveStronger]

Your connective tissue will get stronger as well. Still, it must be said that you're dealing with a heavyweight. A different question would be, how unhealthy is not being strong?! And we can see this in dozen of studies. There's probably a point where strength is detrimental though - Pascal

[@Biolo-G_KJ]

@@ReviveStronger thank you yes and I want to know at which point it starts to be detrimental/unhealthy. Like my strict OHP is 230lbs. Is this still healthy for my shoulders. And if yes, at what weight and for how long will it be unhealthy? Any idea? Like deadlifting once 500lbs is okay. But doing it (perfect form) every other week for 20 years. Is that still healthy for you body?

[@ReviveStronger]

Training for health is quite different to training for performance honestly.

[@Biolo-G_KJ]

@@ReviveStronger true but at which rate of performance would your health be optimal. And at which rate would your health go down.

[@ReviveStronger]

@@Biolo-G_KJ very hard to say. But we know that for optimal health, being active, being actually light, cardiovascularly active too is the way to go. Not something that strength training necessarily promotes ;)

[@juansamudio1171]

Can you add Tom Pervis with this two?

[@First2Ki11]

I can't stop watching mike's eyebrows for some reason

[@ReviveStronger]

Hehe, we'll need to make a stitch up - Pascal

[@lukepownall7292]

Is Kassem from the future ?

[@ReviveStronger]

He very well may be... - Pascal

[@ZenoX41]

Holy shit this is amazing

[@segason6]

After this podcast, if squats and leg extensions were real people, they would be like "well we’re both fucked now lol"

[@ReviveStronger]

xD

[@stephensattler6662]

The top of Dr Mike's head looks like a yoke lmao

[@ReviveStronger]

Isn't that what Alphadestiny is referring to? - Pascal

[@14SoccerLee]

Needs better audio. But awesome guests!

[@N1education]

overall, or one particular speaker? That was my first time using those new BOSE headphones, but they are suppose to have one of the best noise canceling mics for a built in.

[@14SoccerLee]

@@N1education I think it was mostly your mic, but thanks for the reply! Awesome podcast guys.

[@N1education]

@@14SoccerLee Thank you, going to order a new R0DE this week.

[@ReviveStronger]

It's always an either-or. If we had the funds, we'd always fly our guests in ;) - Pascal

[@mozonelaya]

Ishya boi, Steve Whoole, as always

[@ReviveStronger]

That he is! - Pascal

[@juansamudio1171]

Do kaseem and Joel seed man

[@ReviveStronger]

Will think about it xD - Coach Jess

[@pelonete5000]

why didn't you invited Doug Brignole? That could be very interesting.

[@ReviveStronger]

Would it though?^^ - Coach Jess

[@pelonete5000]

@@ReviveStronger I do not understand you, explain yourself please

[@richardtrass]

@@pelonete5000 I think it’s pretty clear they’re saying they don’t rate Brignole.

[@pelonete5000]

Richard, I understand, but would be nice to hear opposite sides debating.Take care

[@richardtrass]

@@pelonete5000 there’s a relatively recent RP post where Mike Istratel critiques Doug Brignole. Not a debate of course but you might be interested in that?

[@johnreed1663]

Add Paul Carter and make things really interesting

[@gamerchristina1079]

💪💪❤️❤️‼️

[@ReviveStronger]

Thanks! - Coach Jess

[@BnibroC69]

hey steve and pascal, do you guys ever need copywriting or marketing help with revive stronger? i'm a copywriter and marketer specializing in the field of health/supplements. I've written promotional email sequences, weekly blogs, product descriptions, social media copy, etc all with high conversions. Can provide samples if you'd like. Would love to chat more if you're interested! Thank you

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

Copyrighting*

[@byssheblackburn7597]

@@imsorrythankyouplease7613 "Copyright" is legal ownership of intellectual property. A copywriter writes "copy" (text) for advertising/websites etc. Have a great day :)

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

Bysshe Blackburn oh this is the one time someone actually used that version correctly. Lol sorry. Have a nice day.

[@BnibroC69]

Bysshe Blackburn well said; very few people have any idea what a copywriter is lol

[@ReviveStronger]

Never thought about it really but you never know, right? Shoot me an email if you want to. :) - Pascal

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

I think Dr. Mike is more persuasive because the focus of the discussion was quadriceps stimulus. Who does a Quad Day? Serious ass body builders. The kind of guy who uses pre-exhaustion. However, most people aren’t going to be happy if their glute stimulus on Leg Day consisted of 4x10 Getting Out of a Chair.

[@N1education]

Hairy Cherub you could be having a push day of quads, chest etc and want to save glutes for pulling the next day. Very typical 4x/week half body split.

[@ReviveStronger]

I'm not there yet for a quad only day. ;) - Pascal

[@serpentking8503]

“I’m talking about super-sets.....”.....WTF may want to state that from the get go 😉

[@N1education]

Serpent King 🥴 yup, definitely should have put more context up front. One of the challenging things is always making sure to have as much context as possible. Sometime the conversation just takes off too fast.

[@serpentking8503]

Great discussion nonetheless, appreciate you both taking the time 🤘

[@N1education]

Next time will have a clear outline and objective. Had to get those first date jitters out of the way

[@ReviveStronger]

Yeah, unless you're extremely well spoken, sometimes things can be missed/lost in translation, etc. How often I thought myself "I wish I said XYZ" - Pascal

[@doug2993]

Get Dr Mike a pillow, me too for that matter, he makes me tired from yawning. LOL

[@kassemhanson731]

was it something I said? LOL

[@doug2993]

@@kassemhanson731 HAHA, no, not you! Thank you for the info!

[@boxerfencer]

@@kassemhanson731 naw, im glad someone took Mike up in his intransitive view on pre-exhausting squats with leg extensions. Mike's so married to the idea that, after almost watching the entire interview, an hour's worth, he's still not letting go of the idea. So far an issue that hasn't been adressed is the safety issue of pre-exhausting quads before barbell squatting. But if safety isnt an issue, something i do regularly is pre-exhaust my hamstrings before squatting. It essentially makes the prime mover in the following exercise, quads, work harder, and boy do I feel my quads during squats when i superset leg curls before them! Try that and follow it up with leg extensions as a giant set! I can't believe Mike critiqued your leg extension post exhaust example because it would lead to lower output, since he's all for fatigue and lower output in other instances!

[@boxerfencer]

52:38 mike attempts a come back by considering the role of local vs global fatigue in a leg ext and squat paring, in favor of leg ext pre-exhausting into squats, which makes sense, but if that were true, we should all be doing flies before benching, curls before rowing, front raises before vertical pressing. Call it Israetalian sequencing, but that doesnt seem right, at all. Either we've all been sequencing exercises wrong since the dawn of time, or Mike's right.

[@doug2993]

@@boxerfencer Yeah, I was a little confused myself on some of the discourse. I did get interrupted for part of it. I may have to go back and watch again. Maybe Dr Mike can give some clarification. He's a very busy man and gives lots of time for podcasts and debates. Sometimes it seemed they agreed, other times, sort of agreed, other times disagreed a little more. lol, I couldn't keep track.

[@danielmessina9888]

Yeah nah, this wasn't it. Fk all take-aways, sat on the same point for an hour.

[@ReviveStronger]

Sorry to hear that. You watched the second part? - Pascal

[@SimonMonette]

I strongly dislike Kassem. He is clearly more interested in being right than getting to the bottom of this.

[@dirtysoul23]

Simon Monette glad i’m not the only one who thinks so.

[@juansamudio1171]

Kaseem is weird for me like he knows so much no doubt but I’m not a fan of following his advice even though some of the stuff he says is really good but I feel like all of the stuff he says with biomechanics and stuff is true to a point we’re he exceeds it and starts using theories and tried to be as natural as possible when lifting weights requires some changes that need to be adapted that aren’t necessarily natural and more for muscle building rather than function if that makes sense like he said frog pump can damage you or suck at building Glutes do to some other muscles getting more work like it’s not backed up by anything and studies showed glute activation is great for frog pumps. I like mike more imo

[@benstaniforth2591]

Please stop saying "trauma"... Pretty sure we don't want any of that...

[@ReviveStronger]

We don't want any trauma, that's for sure :) - Pascal

[@keerkatta5672]

What a load of bullshit . Just lift the damn weights .

[@ReviveStronger]

Exactly, go hard or go home, right? - Pascal