1919 antique elevator repair, figuring out the power routing

[@mikerico5568]

Hi Chris, I don't know how you keep your composure, but, just watching I'm feeling like my head is about to explode.

[@brickandsole]

That is a very diplomatic way of discussing the chaos. I will be phasing help in this year hopefully more and more so that should make a big impact. I am having professionals come to help with the electric. It's kind of like a slow motion train wreck. Am I right?

[@mxslick50]

3:00 That is a cabinet for current transformers (CT's) that provide the correct signals to the meter socket in the second can. 3:25 It will take permits and working with the utility to replace the missing CT's and meter to get power back up. (In addition to all of the repairs to the equipment and wiring inside. )

[@brickandsole]

Yeah it gets deeper than that even. I invited the city out they will be there this week to do inspection and offer me guidance. also the engineer from Ameren will be out. From what I can tell I need a new meter loop, and two disconnects, for 480/277 Y. I just learned that.

[@Someonelikeyou-ml7nx]

Amasing!!!! Wish I lived closer, I'd donate time. Dont know if it's been in the comment but for the future, start at the end point (this case, the elevator motor) and work back to the panel ,which in this case the service entrance. You're gonna have nice pretty breakers when you're all thru!

[@brickandsole]

cool, thanks for the kind words too.

[@jodirauth8847]

Yeah gotta run all new conduit and wire.

[@brickandsole]

Looking that way...

[@TomF-w1k]

Hi Chris, I highly recommend to ask a electrical planning engineer to design a „Masterplan Power Supply“. Definitively you need 3 phases. The Reconstruction of power supply should start with the first incoming box. The old case is in Metall, very dangerous. The second step is the installation of a central distribution for the building. Regards Thomas

[@brickandsole]

Thanks Thomas. I am biting my tongue because sooo much has happened with the electric, and I haven't posted those videos yet. My computer was down and now I have a backlog. suffice it to say I got REAALLY lucky but I don't want to spoil the reveal. That being said the Ameren engineers came out, a professional electrician, and the city and together we got it figured out.

[@pomonabill220]

The box on the floor next to the motor is the brake solenoid.

[@brickandsole]

That is what I learned, and the break default position is "break on". very interesting.

[@christophersielski1388]

Chris, you would need to consult an electrician who can quote you the minimum hardware he would have to install before the power company would hook up and set a meter. At a minimum, a meter box and a main disconnect switch rated to handle whatever distribution panel (circuit breakers) inside the you would need. Also, they will most likely need to go with new components to pass any inspections. No industrial electrician I ever dealt with would consider tying into the old cloth covered hodge-podge wiring you have inside. They would run a new branch from your new breaker panel to a disconnect at the elevator. Unfortunately, hold on to your wallet. It will be costly both to hook up and the ongoing service fees for the 3 phase.

[@richardbrobeck2384]

Yes I agree !

[@brickandsole]

Oh yes, I know that is exactly what is happening, plus what the service provider requires also needs clarification. I am not trying to cut any corners or do anything myself. thats for sure. This is one time that I am leaving it to the professionals.

[@christophersielski1388]

@@brickandsole Chris, You do have another option if the three phase hookup is cost prohibitive. If the elevator is deemed viable for restoration into service, you can install a rotary phase converter that would run on your existing single phase 220v line. This you would own and pay for once as opposed to ongoing power company charges. This is all predicated on two factors; that your elevator motor is 220v and your existing service has the ampacity to run the converter. Converters are sized for the horse power of the load and are a few grand in cost for larger units. Something to consider.

[@jd9875a]

Wow. That's a puzzle! Unfortunately for the sake of safety (and maybe sanity), it'll probably be best to just run all new conduit and wiring. That's a fun project through!

[@lakeshadow100]

Yep. You might be able to get an electrician that will tell you what you need and you can do the job yourself. But this is nothing to take risks with.

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, I think it will be a matter of mostly new but using a few of the original components. But the electricians and experts will decide that. one of the few things I am not trying to do alone.

[@brickandsole]

Totally agree. and the whole thing terrifies me. So don't worry, experts all the way!

[@achristiansilluminosity-gq9of]

the power usually going the elevator goes to where the motors via either fuse boxes or circuit boxes and is what lifts and lower's it. the minor wires that control are at the top also and a for the lack of a better term a two way swith runs down with the elevator that the slack is controlled by a pully the wire roles over to protect it.

[@brickandsole]

Yeah that is what I have kind of learned. I did find out the control wired don't go under the car like I was guessing in the video, but I think I will learn more about that when the real work starts.

[@stubstub8092]

I think that second do-dad by the motor is a brake. The control wire I suspect is flexible cable somehow that moves up and down with the elevator cables rather than that solid conduit under it.

[@brickandsole]

that would make sense. Neil told me that the default position of the break is "on" and when it gets current it releases, that way if it loses power the brakes engage for safety.

[@Ragnar8504]

@@brickandsole Exactly. The box is called the brake release solenoid and it's basically a big electromagnet that pulls the lever down if the coil is connected to the mains. That needs to happen in sync with the motor starting.

[@scottdiehl2726]

You may have to pull new wire to bring it up to code. That's some pretty old line. When we upgraded the system, we had to rewire it even though it was the old motors. The industry standard now is 480v. Might be cheaper that way versus keeping it the old way.

[@brickandsole]

I think just for peace of mind, 3 strands of wire 225 feet at about 1 dollar a foot is just over 700 bucks, so not too awful bad for peace of mind.

[@rupe53]

@@brickandsole at 225 feet you are needing to upsize the wire to prevent voltage drop. With this being industrial / commercial, you won't be using Romex. It will be steel conduit (fire code) and THHN wire. It's going to be ALL NEW from the outside connection point, including a new meter and disconnect, plus a new breaker panel. We're in the $10k range easily, but you will have at least 200 amps of new service available to connect to other things. You might actually get the elevator powered in that price.

[@mfbfreak]

25:00 seems to be the brake solenoid. It releases the elevator's brake when you put power on it. How much power - that i don't know.

[@Ragnar8504]

You definitely figured out how the electricity enters the shaft, and in a way that's the most interesting bit. If the conduit is still solid, you might be able to reuse it from that point onwards and pull new wires. Everything between the pole and where the conduit enters the shaft is a lost cause and needs to be completely redone. In the motor room you've got the motor, the brake, gearbox and drive sheave (the big pulley with the cables running over it). The brake is released by the brake solenoid, the chunky box at the 25:00 mark. That part is fairly easy to follow. The cable at the top (where you show the masking tape label) is the flexible cable that goes to the controls in the car. At the bottom of the panel you've got five wires, three phases to the motor and two wires to the brake release solenoid. I'm really surprised there's only two control wires going down into the shaft though, I'd expect at least three, one for each floor call button and a common or neutral. This also suggests that there aren't any safety switches, which is surprising. I'm absolutely sure the conduit on that side doesn't go to the panel in the car though, that's what the flexible cable at the top of the control panel does! It must hang down the side of the shaft and loop to the bottom of the car, probably a junction box that joins to the conduit going up the side of the car. Think about it, if the conduit was fixed both to the wall and the shaft it would break the instant the car moved! The feed looks like four wires, three phases and neutral, probably 277/480 V but I suppose it could have been 120/208 V. Both are sort-of common industrials upply voltages in the US, the former is much more common. The power company would know, their transformers are still on that pole and these determine what voltage comes into your property. Also have a look at the name plate of that motor and the brake release solenoid.

[@brickandsole]

Seems like you already know what took me a year to learn. Just caught up to the information you just shared within the last few days. it will be 3 phase, Y 480/277. There is existing conduit with good fairly recent wiring. Which is wonderful. Just learned what that brake solenoid is. I will be posting a lot of new info in the coming months. You are dead right about the control wires being free hanging. I was confused.

[@kevinganje3356]

Hey, Chris. Just read through all of the other comments to-date. Whew! Sounds as if the consensus is to replace everything, which is probably wise advice. Appears this is all going to be difficult and costly. Wishing you all the best, my friend. Stay safe in all that you do.

[@brickandsole]

Hey Kevin, this will eventually show up on the channel, but turns out there is existing conduit the whole way with fairly new 6 gauge wire. Which is incredible. I invited the city to come and give me guidance as well as the electric company. Fingers crossed.

[@imark7777777]

Yes given the condition and age of the equipment mostly condition it would probably be an entirely new electrical service. The small box outside is a meter box with the brown thing in it and that would be used to connect to cities and the larger box which would go around the larger cables it's sort of remote monitoring great for large power applications usually three phase stuff. The wires hanging connecting or not connecting to the overhead line looks like they had two different services entering one for three phase and one for split phase. Which means they probably had one or the other and then added more capacity later. Given what the space looks like at seven minutes and they probably had a lot of disconnects and tied it around for various equipment so it's hard to make out what's what on the walls. Generally after the wires come in from the meter they would go through a disconnect or a breaker and then into a breaker box or fuse panel or in some cases a busbar system for different locations. And yeah anything cloth would have to get redone no right minded electrician would reuse it it's past its service life and it's not been maintained so it doesn't qualify for the grandfather clause. For the general lighting the conduit if it's in good condition can get reused and it looks like that's the case. Maybe / maybe not some of the light fixtures. The nice thing about conduit is you can just pull out the old wires and run new stuff in it. Oh interesting so the plugs on the ceiling that's an old style system for lights where you could take the fixture down and just unplug it. The shiner stuff was for something new. And the individual wires 4x on insulators is called knob and tube. Sprinkler pipe probably not used as conduit, you will have size incompatibilities as we've standardized to prevent water from mixing with electricity. So far none of that looks like it would be used for the elevator. You'd be looking at 2,3,4 at #8 or bigger and that would be a dedicated circuit for the elevator so it wouldn't necessarily be able to share with anything else and requiring at least 3/4” conduit at least without consulting the tables to get the exact numbers. 13:00 that looks like the original electrical panel and that's probably fed from a separate dedicated large conduit to the outside which is just Visible briefly. The big one at least 2 inches. The machine / Control / Motor room (I'm blanking on the official elevator name but motor room is acceptable) at the top of the elevator is most likely found with that large conduit that you first showed going up the shaft. And it's probably, yep you mostly figured it out. Unfortunately there is multiple ages and multiple different pieces of equipment overlaid so it's really hard to see in the video, you almost have to do electrical archaeology. That cut off elbow at 18:20 is a ghost chase that went to some other piece of equipment. Have to think of this like veins and arteries as it branches off from the heart to feed things. Unfortunately you have at least two hearts, and who knows how many renovations, upgrades and revisions. I would suspect it comes down that large conduit maybe loops through a box on the side and then runs down to one of the main electrical panels downstairs. As an elevator is a fairly large load it will have usually a dedicated circuit in the main panel but you have two different electrical services coming in so it's questionable which one that wasn't it's hard to see. 23:30 now we're getting somewhere probably comes up to a sub panel that feeds the elevator with the controls the motor and the room light. Unfortunately the elevator controls in the cab look like they got stripped so you're gonna be doing a lot of elevator repair and Electrical which might require two different people. Hopefully the upstairs stuff was not messed with too much. then there's probably some certifications to make sure the elevator safe/functional as the maintenance probably hasn't been carried out for a while. Unfortunately there's also the issue of age and finding anybody who would know how to work that. 24:00 lots of numbers and lots of pictures. That's looks like the incoming power feed to the Control panel and then that gets distributed to the cab control circuits and the motor from there. 24:53 that is a either a solenoid to control a break or a motor disconnect switch used to indicate end of travel or brake to the motor. 26:00 that conduit being only two wires is probably a line voltage safety interlock switch on the doors to prevent the motor from running well any of the doors are open. Well there is no basement there is definitely an elevator shaft which will have a lower floor for the mechanical stuff. The controls for the buttons in the cab are probably running up a flexible cable along side the support cables for the cab. You would need more wires for that than just 2, and the cable generally comes from the top of the cab and is flexible and rolls with with the motor to keep it from get to slacked. That was a fun random KZbin video.

[@rupe53]

100 years ago, it wouldn't be all that strange to have a single circuit to the elevator machine room, then pull off a few lights and outlets from there. Most likely a light in the loft, and another in the car. Controls also on the same circuit. Still doesn't seem to be enough wires to reverse car direction from a local operator position. I saw the original video a few months ago and don't remember if it was multiple buttons within the car. (probably was) OTOH, a single call button on each floor could be done on 2 wires because that goes to the control panel and from there to relays. BTW, he has a guy who knows about older elevator stuff and is rebuilding the control board he took out a few months ago.

[@brickandsole]

Great comment. The control panel was removed by me in a previous video. there is a guy who is going to help me get the elevator going. an old school retired engineer who seems to know A LOT. probably your kind. anyway, he rebuilt it, he is also rebuilding the brain panel that goes up by the motor with all the relays. I'll be posting a lot more as we hope to get it going in May when the weather is nicer for him.

[@brickandsole]

interesting you say that, there is a fused disconnect up there with a small offshoot to on overhead lamp in the penthouse. You called it exactly.

[@imark7777777]

@@brickandsole yeah thanks. I'd like to consider myself sort of an Electrical historian at this point the more I know the more fascinating and hopefully helpful.

[@imark7777777]

@@rupe53 yeah I'll probably end up watching more videos. It just looked like the control cables couldn't be going to the conduit on the side. And controls would probably be up + down. But the cable from that would have to be flexible coming off the cab and usually that goes up with the support cable. Oh yes old elevators use tons of relays. Relay Logic is quite amazing.

[@HabitualButtonPusher]

That is going to be EXPENSIVE to get operational. Is it possible to just mount a 17.5 or 20 lb winch in the engine room? I mean you can get a 12/24v sherpa steed winch for less than 2k. Add a battery bank, charge controller and a solar panel on the roof…could be much more efficient and cost effective.

[@brickandsole]

that could definitely be a backup, though there wouldn't be a breaking system as a fail safe. not that people will be riding it.

[@HabitualButtonPusher]

@@brickandsole hmm could always use a dual winch system

[@rupe53]

@@HabitualButtonPusher none of this is acceptable in a commercial elevator, especially one that is rated for several tons of cargo.

[@rickjarvis5954]

It will all need to be brought up to code. I don't really see anything that can be brought back into service.

[@brickandsole]

maybe the conduit?

[@tbirdracefan]

Only thing I could add that might help is tracing the path of wiring for the motor. Following the wire from the pole to the shut-off "Elevator" box on the wall was a good start. However once the wire and conduit ends there is not much use in trying to find the path further towards the elevator motor. You need restart at the motor end follow it carefully as far as you can towards the bottom floor and the empty "Elevator" box on the ground floor near the service entrance. The 2 other wires are control wires that go to the panel in the car. Likely low voltage. There may be a reel under the car that takes up the slack as the car goes to the bottom floor.

[@brickandsole]

Thats exactly what I learned today. This is really a cool learning process for me.

[@rupe53]

in those days there were no low voltage controls. Heck, even heating thermostats were line voltage.

[@tbirdracefan]

@@rupe53 If that were the case, there would need to be more than 2 wires.

[@rupe53]

@@tbirdracefan heating t-stats are either on or off. 2 wires are enough to do the job. In elevators the "call button" (located on each floor) goes to the control panel. In many cases the relays there will switch the motor to up or down, depending on where the car is located. Sensing is done via a switch located on each floor that is tripped by the car as it passes by. This would be the same switch that makes the car stop exactly at each floor. The only place you need more than 2 wires is in the car itself.

[@achristiansilluminosity-gq9of]

i think if you start at the top of the elevator follow the wire form the control system

[@brickandsole]

I did it backwards. like so many other things in my life. haha.

[@lakeshadow100]

Mercy, you have no 3 phase lines to the building here. They would be 3 separate cables. Your feeds go in at the top of the breaker or fused panel and out at the bottom to the equipment. You have two types of power going into the panels for the elevator. One is the 3 phase that will run the motor and the other type is Control power. Control power appears to be 120V which explains those 2 extra wires you see.

[@richardbrobeck2384]

I noticed that too no 3 phase from the pole !

[@brickandsole]

Interesting, I wondered why there were only two. So what were the three gigantic cables that were cut at the box? hangin in the air and taped off. that wasn't 3 cables? I am confused. but I am sure the experts will sort me out. Lots to learn.

[@brickandsole]

Now you guys have me wanting to go back and check. haha.

[@lakeshadow100]

@@brickandsole I meant from the pole to the building you have no 3 phase anymore. . Yes the 3 cables on the building were the 3 phase lines.

[@Ragnar8504]

@@lakeshadow100 Are you sure? It could have been three phases and a combined neutral/support wire, a bit hard to tell from the video footage. I have to admit I'm not intimately familiar with industrial power over in the US. There's definitely three transformers on the pole, which means three-phase is a possibility.

[@kevinwassellsr.5646]

Let me make it easier for him. "I got nothing Neal We need everything back to the pole" Sorry A rotary phase converter is a better bet I could build you one if you find a big enough 3 phase motor

[@brickandsole]

He said if all else fails he has a phase converter that we can put right next to the motor. so thats a fall back plan.

[@moonshinefuel]

It's kind of like do you want to get it operational for your own personal satisfaction? Or do you plan on allowing the public to enter the building at some point someday. That should be guide you on how you approach this I would think.

[@brickandsole]

no people, only cargo, but it will help to get all the stuff out of third floor and more importantly a material handler up there to work on the few heavy beams that need replaced.

[@dombutler7685]

Can you get them to move the transformers 2 poles along, as the wire run would be shorter, mind you it's going to be expensive either way, i'm sure you will need new wire, conduit etc.

[@brickandsole]

YEah, that would be great. I could save 50 feet. But I am sure the expense of moving would be more than what I would save. thats how the world works. haha.

[@dombutler7685]

@@brickandsole thanks to google maps, it's only 100 feet shorter so yes not much point unless the cable is super expensive!

[@bobross4237]

Looks to me like a 100% rewire. All will need to be brought up to current code. Power company will usually have some requirements as to whether or not they will supply 3 phase. They will have requirements for metering which will require CT's, meter socket and disconnect. For as large a building as it is 3 phase would be nice but you need to be honest with yourself as to how much you plan to invest in this project. It has been a long time since I was an electrical estimator but I can see an easy 30 to 50 thousand to get a new service and distribution panel in place. You may be able to get some sort of temporary power set up going but try to only spend your money once, (do it right the first time). For your information it is either 3 phase (3 hot legs plus a neutral, or single phase which is usually 2 hot legs plus a neutral).

[@brickandsole]

ITs going to be all new wire. The provider said turning it on is not a problem and the city also had no reservations. But we will see what the technical side ends up costing.

[@stardust-rv7mr]

Chris none of this will pass current code, you will have to redo what you want done.

[@brickandsole]

that was my instinct too. I will leave it all up to the professionals.

[@rupe53]

you said a mouthful. None of the original wiring will pass muster on a rehab / remodel, and the elevator will need to be recertified (and maybe updated safety items) before any tenants can use it. Most likely a visit from the local fire marshal as well.

[@Motorsportqueen]

a vary ambitious project. I suspect that you may need to run new wiriing through the building would be way safer than trying to use 100yo cabling. It will be good to see it working again though.

[@brickandsole]

Thats exactly right. The wire alone will be at least 1k.

[@82ndairbornevet]

Chris, I would really like to give you some big advice about your electrical situation and share years of knowledge with you on the subject. Unfortunately I have nothing 😂electrical is not in my wheelhouse unless you want to install a ceiling fan or a light switch or even an outlet, but that is the extent of my knowledge. I had no clue what I was looking at in your video except that it was some kind of electrical stuff 😂 I wish you all the luck in getting that stuff reconnected and “safely “ working again.

[@brickandsole]

they way that comment started out I thought you were going to solve all my problems. haha. took a hard left.

[@82ndairbornevet]

@@brickandsole lol…I thought I would lighten your day with a chuckle. I do have a lot of knowledge in just about every other area of construction, just not electrical and not too much plumbing. 😅

[@MrJeep75]

Cool old boxes

[@kfrdubber]

Wondering if you can get a three phase generator (military surplus possibly) on the roof to power just the elevator. I think its going to cost a lot more for wire, conduit, boxes etc... what do i know. I did not sleep at a holiday inn last night.

[@brickandsole]

thats an interesting thought. First one to suggest that.

[@kfrdubber]

@coldwarmercantile you bypass/stall the permit process and can figure out what's really needed to get the elevator working. Its far from a permanent fix.

[@saracordaro3676]

Happy Sunday thank you for a new video

[@brickandsole]

Thanks again Miss Sara.

[@MrJeep75]

That a limit switch or a relay on the motor

[@mfbfreak]

Easiest way to get power for the short term future, is to just rent a generator and hook that up with mobile construction site breaker/distribution setups. Rent a generator of at least twice the rated power of the elevator motor, to avoid having the inrush current trip the generator overcurrent protection, or worse - make it stall. Getting the old breakers, boxes etc up and running is possible but requires extensive disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly to make it function safely again. I'd optically restore all those old breakers and install new stuff next to it, or sell off all the old electrics to people doing restaurations and to collectors. There's a decent amount of historical value in keeping them with the building, but it's nigh impossible to using it unless you really really really know what you're doing.

[@brickandsole]

I actually have 3 phase to the building but they gave me one outlet and are discouraging more until I get fire suppression figured out.

[@pskully57]

That electric is such a mess, because some was ripped out, but if you can figure out a way to restore it, (a monumental task) I believe it will be so worth it, not just because of the functionality, but the coolness of it, It's so unique because there are very few, if any like it anywhere. This is why everyone is rooting for the elevator. Maybe there's some old photos in the archives that will provide a clue.

[@brickandsole]

yeah, haha, seems like they re-wired so many times and never removed older stuff, just left it all as a hot mess. But thats okay there is plenty that I can use.

[@garypicard9939]

find the plate on the motor for specs, then take it from there, Neil probably knows about buck-boost transformers, just remember the higher the HP and voltage the more expensive it gets. You can get some really good info on KZbin . But any changes will have to be brought up to code.

[@Ragnar8504]

Since there's a three-phase pole right outside the building it's probably best to hope that it supplies the voltage needed for the current motor.

[@brickandsole]

we are buying the original schematics for the elevator, not cheap. Electric service provider coming Thursday to advise.

[@13bigerdave]

you need a sparktritshion and loads of money, I am thinking it is gonna have to be all new stuff wires breakers etc.

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, I need to talk with the experts for sure, and the city inspector so that I don't have to re-do.

[@marksmith-ew7ir]

it will best best to run new pipe and wire due to the age of the wire as it break s down over many years causing fires ,if not trace a more direct route to run new cables better to be safe ,over years of people pulling on cable and cutting them .i think the motor room will be ok if there is no chew making on the cables ,but that my thoughts i would say to run and cable and tubing will take four days but the electricty board will not power you up if the correct boxes are installed that meets todays code.

[@brickandsole]

that is pretty much the plan unless the professionals say some small part is usable. I will leave it up to them.

[@mcgjohn22]

pretty interesting video clip. Does not really matter that so much was ripped out since most of the wiring would likely not meet current code. The original 3 phase was pretty beefy since it not only ran the elevator but also all the motors and shoe processing equipment on each of the floors. You likely will not need that level of power. May want to consider putting together an excel spreadsheet on cost comparisons of bringing in 3 phase power vs. single phase power and using a converter to run the elevator motor. May also want to contact your local power supplier and get quotes for 3 phase connection vs. single phase to roll into your calculations.

[@brickandsole]

Oh yeah, we thought about that. The service line is copper bigger than my wrist, so that is more than I would need for sure. the electric company told me that services is based on usage so no difference in price, going to get 480/227 I think. We have a converted as a fall back if we don't go 3 phase, but so far it is looking pretty good to go 3 phase. I am guessing about 2500 for a meter loop, and two disconnects. We found good wire in the building, and were able to tap in to existing conduit, pending inspection. We will see.

[@alexanderross2786]

My Guess: for liability & insurance reasons, they will quote out the job with all new boxes & all new wires & conduits.

[@brickandsole]

That would be my assumption as well.

[@tete7958]

Oh my stars! What a mess. You really need a complete rewire- do not trust any of the vintage wiring in there. It will have to be brought up to code- the old wiring won't matter, or the boxes. You need to put all new in and run it right to the elevator. I read the other comments on the expense of doing that. The main goal is to just get it running, with today's codes and standards. If you can do it without the 3 phase, consider that way. Also think about the future use of the building and will you need access to the other floors and who might be using it. You do not want a violation of code right off the bat so it cannot be used by anyone.

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, I am for sure. I want to take it really slow and trust the professionals. If it turns out to be tens of thousands then we will consider other options.

[@brickandsole]

also this whole journey is like a process of one impossible task after another.

[@tete7958]

you seem to be meeting all the challenges just fine@@brickandsole

[@snowman3630]

GREAT TOUR OF THE WHOLE ELEVATOR , YOU WILL HAVE TO RUN ALL NEW 3 PHASE FROM THE POLE TO THE BUILDING AND THEN ALL NEW INSIDE OF THE BUILDING TO THE ELEVATOR AT LEAST BECAUSE NOBODY KNOWS HOW OLD OR WHAT CONDITION THAT STUFF IS IN , AND ESPECIALLY BEING SAFE AND UP TO CODE TOO , AND IF HE'S REWIRING AND CONDITIONING THE PANELS AND PUSH BUTTON BOXES THE ONLY THING LEFT WOULD BE THE MOTOR UP TOP AND WEATHER OR NOT TO USE THE OLD CABLE IN THE SHAFT OR NOT , LORD KNOWS WHAT A NEW SPOOL OF CABLE WOULD COST NOT TO MENTION INSTALLING ALL THAT CABLE, HEAVY STUFF , ANOTHER THOUGHT IS THERE ANY SAFETY CODES FOR THE ELEVATOR ITSELF SINCE IT'S BEEN OUT OF SERVICE BECAUSE THE STATE GOES ROUND AND CERTIFIES THEM REGULARLY TOO JUST IDEAS BROTHER HOPE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE WELL , ENJOY THIS WEIRD BUT WARM MIDWEST WINTER WERE HAVING FOR FEBRUARY TAKE CARE CHRIS 🤘🤘

[@brickandsole]

wow lot to digest in that comment. I found that I can buy 300 feet of cable from China for 800$. But hopefully that won't be needed. Neil said those old motors don't break down, they work forever so thats good. though it is leaking a bit of oil. I am going to run all new wire. It has been so mild. Which is great because of all the missing windows.

[@stime6472]

I can't even imagine how much money it would take to bring the building up to code. I would be so overwhelmed.

[@brickandsole]

Wiring, plumbing, fire suppression, evacuation, It is a ten year project. haha.

[@wpmcgown2827]

My guess it that the original wiring in all of this has been stripped out. It would have been copper and worth $$$ (even more!! today). Aluminum was in use in the 60's approx. If it is AL it is from that date. Check to see how much of the original wiring is in place. Strip it out and sell it to help rewire the place.

[@brickandsole]

somebody went through the ground floor and pulled out a ton of copper.

[@MikeKing-qm8ie]

A couple people have commented on the cost of getting 3 phase back to the building and they are probably exactly right. Maybe you should talk to the power company and see if they will send someone to look at what you have and tell you what their costs would be before you decide on a plan of action.

[@brickandsole]

That is exactly what is happening. they will be out Thursday. the city on Wednesday. So I will have lots more info. Also some news I found a bunch of #6 heavy gauge copper wire in the building. So that was a big help.

[@MK-Farm-Michigan]

Wow that wiring is so old. It looks like if you used it, might start a fire. Oh Chris, this is Michelle. I changed my sign in name.

[@brickandsole]

aha, okay, nice to know. And by the way that is not the ugliest wire I have seen in there so far.

[@kevinwassellsr.5646]

Another issue is. The power company is gonna want big money just to bring 3 phase into that building. And then you pay a "minimum charge" that will curl your hair. You need to figure out a single phase alternative

[@urbanurchin5930]

There is a lot of open space on the roof. He might get some considerable incentives to install solar panels. Also, give Ameren (power company) some good publicity for converting the old building into an energy-efficient space. This video was informative and thanks to Neil for his help !

[@MK-Farm-Michigan]

Time for Neil and an electrician makes the rounds with you on electrical.

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, anything I would say would show how little I know. but the cool thing is that I am learning a lot through this process.

[@brickandsole]

I need to look into that. So many people have recommended that. if the roof was in perfect shape I would be quicker to explore it.

[@rupe53]

At the risk of sounding like so many others here, I will throw out some ideas and observations. First observation is you are definitely approaching this as a DIY project, but that's actually costing you time and money in the long run... and lots of both. The longer the building sits empty the more it costs you out of pocket. You are one person and you can't do it all. Secondly, if you are looking to do any sort of historic preservation, try looking for grant money... but you might also look into forming a "not for profit" corporation / LLC or similar, which will help you chase the cash. Find others and research their connections for grant money, then ask where they get their legal advice. (you will need some of that too) It might take a year so get started ASAP.

[@brickandsole]

You are right and we are on the same page. I think you will start to see me phase more and more help starting in a few weeks. I also am having the city come out this week to see if I can segment a small area to get up to code to rent and get some income to help accelerate.

[@rupe53]

@@brickandsole BTW, storage, retail, office, and living space all have different code, so ask lots of questions. Some areas also allow PVC pipe for sprinklers, which is way cheaper. The more you know the more questions come up, right?

[@GothGuy885]

picturing the guy who pulled out the fire sprinklers doing like in the 3 Stooges ep where they were supposed plumbers. and got the electrical conduits mixed up with the plumbing pipes, and had water squinting out of all the light fixtures 🤣 as far as your electrical goes, if it is in your budget, I would pull out all the old stuff, and start fresh. and Sue the sprinkler guy and give him a very bad review on yelp if he has deemed himself a professional.

[@brickandsole]

There is actually two kinds in there. There is the old cloth covered stuff. there is much newer heavy duty 6 gauge copper wire everywhere, sometimes in 100 150 foot lengths. I didn't know that till I started opening the boxes. it's great because that newer stuff can still be used.

[@mwatkins2464]

Your 3 phase is used only for the motor so why not see if you can order a single phase motor to put in its place?? Then you won’t need 3 phase at all.

[@brickandsole]

Thats a backup plan, if we can't get it running. But I would love to have the original motor going. granted you have to pick and choose your battles with a project like this. I prefer not to know what a headache I am creating for myself. LOL.

[@mwatkins2464]

@@brickandsole good luck 👍

[@PeterShaw-lb9lt]

a single phase motor would not be strong enough to move the weight of the elevator car and load

[@1ajs]

u might get lucky and be able to repair the existing service and put a panel is for temporary service for construction purposes. u might be allowed to power that beast of an elevator up but becarefull what u talk about on hear in regards to its condition till u had it properly looked at u never know whos watching but since ur missing the cage switches and few other bits contact local elevator contractors and have them check it over in its unpowerd state they might have service records for it as well and info on licences it mighta had or needs or u might have to go full monty with ur elctrical service witch case id figure out the best location and put an electrical room in and plan to have one on each floor above each other. boom leaves you with lots of options later. then all u gotta do is pull permit for the ever you add later on this gentalman prolly tell u same thing as above but more details is there anymore wires comming into that building? sometimes these old factories had 2 or 3 services if thats 208v u can easyly get 120v for plugs if its 480v or 600 ur guna need transformers to run things so thats another thing u need to figure out

[@brickandsole]

I have 110 service. Called the city to come out. I know it means I might have additional cost to make them happy but I prefer to do it that way. A lot of the infrastructure like conduit is still good and usable. We'll see what meets code and what doesn't. I'll post as soon as I have info.

[@1ajs]

@@brickandsole check with the utility as well then they would know for sure what u have and prolly get bit of history on the power demands it had. anyhow if i was u id pick a location for an electrical room and move forward from there for the long run and maybe that existing stuff for construction service

[@MrJeep75]

That building probably ran the machines off a line shaft system

[@RogerEbert-vy5pv]

Don't like the aluminum wire.

[@brickandsole]

There is a lot of it in the building, I think there is even some big rolls of it somewhere.

[@armchairobserver4747]

You're getting yourself into the weeds for no reason on reverse engineering the wiring they did 100 years ago. Simply supply the power that the device requires

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, Neil said the same thing guess there is some kind of stress test or something and if it bares it, then it is good.But 600 to 1k for new wire might be justifiable for peace of mind.

[@armchairobserver4747]

@@brickandsole I think you'd be better off abandoning the overhead motor pully system and redesign with hydraulic system dug down at the ground floor. 3 stories is a perfect case for hydraulic lift

[@limelightcinemagroup2148]

That wiring you're showing is not up to code so they will have to replace all that wiring Chris because it's the wrong type of housing around the wire

[@brickandsole]

yeah, but I might be able to pull and scrap that copper wire for the new wire fund>

[@MrJeep75]

Leave the old knob and tube wiring for looks, i wouldn't use it

[@ronwade5646]

Forget it!

[@brickandsole]

didn't you know? this whole project is one impossible task after another. I won't blame you when you say "told you so"

[@ArtisanASCII]

I wouldn't trust ANY of that! With my ADHD I would have to pull out all that old conduit/cable/boxes and replace it with new. You may be into antiques but you don't want your electricity infrastructure to be vintage! ;)

[@brickandsole]

It's all new wire going in. I am currently checking prices as we speak.

[@steelrain4362]

Just wanted to be the first. lol I’m sure the video is going to amazing as usual. Now I’ll watch.

[@brickandsole]

Hey man. You are number one!!!

[@kfourom]

I don't know what city, town, county or state you are in, but it looks like you are going to be in violation of fire, electrical, plumbing, elevator and maybe health codes. Start at the pole and get a temporary 220 volt contractor drop. Have the electric company take down the old feeds. starting at the boxes outside, remove all wiring, fixtures, boxes and conduit for the building. All of it. Hire a competent electrical contractor to design and install a new system. Stay out of the elevator! do not try to use it, rewire it or jury rig some contraption to it. Close the floor doors and lock them. Don't try to do any of this yourself. This is not like wiring a garage. Many items to consider. Much liability to consider. I am surprised that local code inspectors have not padlocked the building pending approved repairs.

[@brickandsole]

no no, I wouldn't dare wire anything myself. I have invited the city out on next Wednesday to inspect and offer guidance, I have also set up a meeting with the Ameren service engineers, and have a licensed electrician that will do all the permitting and work. I will know more in the next few weeks after all the meetings.

[@kevinwassellsr.5646]

This is all really interesting And I assume some of the attraction is "the old industrial coolness " of it all But No one is gonna let you put that back in service. Sorry The way to make that shaft workable for floor to floor moving junk is a new 5 ton chain hoist hooked up along with using the old counterbalance( hopefully there is one) system. I really respect your determination But Try and be practical in this one

[@brickandsole]

Yeah, there is no plan to use it for people. just to move junk out, and a material handler up to work on a couple of the beams. Plus it is just cool to have right?

[@davidquerry8869]

Start getting that misc steel recycled, your going to need the money.

[@brickandsole]

I know. I am in denial at the moment.

[@limelightcinemagroup2148]

Will I know about rehabbing buildings you have to probably going to put in all new boxes with all new Breakers and new wiring because you don't know if the wiring in the building is any good you need to find yourself a licensed electrician to give you advice

[@brickandsole]

I heard there is a load test you can do to test the wires. but in the end it will all be new wire anyway.

[@AndrewHall-dp9il]

I like you because you remind of Bart Simpson buying a factory… and you you’re milhouse. lol jk. Luv ya

[@brickandsole]

haha, now I need to refresh my memory on the characters. is that an actual episode? did he buy a factory? haha.

[@poussin483]

Are you ok you look out of breath and your face is look like swell.

[@brickandsole]

I'm too old to be running up all those stairs!

[@MrJeep75]

That building probably ran the machines off a line shaft system