1940s Riding Breeches: Drafting Trials & Tribulations

[@robintheparttimesewer6798]

I enjoy watching the process, the trials and tribulations. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one who puts things in a corner and walks away!! Or decides to percolate in the background. Many a solution has come to me this way!

[@ShannonMakes]

Oh, I think it's a vital part of the process! That's half the reason I always have a few things going on at once... to bounce back and forth between fun parts, while other parts stew in the background XD

[@susiesernaker2180]

I am really enjoying you partnering up with Pocket Full of Posies to work through these patterns. I hope you keep it up 😊

[@ShannonMakes]

Thank you! 😊I'm very glad you're enjoying it, and while we don't have any plans beyond this (finishing up our respective drafted pants), I'll keep that in mind for future plans

[@jackiejames4551]

Watching you go through the process is actually very helpful. Thank you for including your thought process in this video. As for a more through video on drafting a pair of these pants, no thank you. I don't think I will be needing to make these, as I'm afraid of horses.

[@ShannonMakes]

You're very welcome 😊😊 And as for myself, while I love riding, and used to do it as a kid, I haven't been on a horse in years... I just love the style!!

[@beverlygrimmett8749]

Being 73 years old now......when I was a child my mother did not allow my sisters and myself to wear pants of any kind until we were at least in middle school, even then we couldn't wear them to school. A relative would pass some of her outgrown clothes to me. In one package was a pair of riding britches like you are making. Since they were given to me, my mother did allow me to wear them on the farm and outside to play. They were a whole new thing to me, and I have to say I loved them. To make a long story short......I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoyed my britches......❤

[@PocketFullofPoseys]

Loved seeing your process! ♥️

[@ShannonMakes]

Yay!! 😊 I'm equally intrigued to see yours... can't wait to see how they compare!

[@asilverfoxintasmania9940]

I'm glad you worked it out, once you showed the front and back I realised that you were right, that concave bit makes lots of sense and I guessed it sat at your knee. It may have been a bit talk heavy but its super important to show these things so others don't feel like they aren't getting it! Its hard when the assumed knowledge that is written in these things can be more than you realise! We did get some choice Cannelle footage though! I love that she uses the bed! oh and projects do occasionally need to sit and the corner and think about what it is they have done! If they are lucky they get placed there and not balled up and thrown there!

[@ShannonMakes]

Oh, Cannelle does dearly love that couch! We are going to be very sad to leave it behind when our contract finishes 😭😭 Yes, I mean, hopefully people can watch the video and realize that there can be many sticking points to these older instructions, but also that, with some perseverance and creative problem solving, often times the result can still be achieved!

[@asilverfoxintasmania9940]

@@ShannonMakes oh indeed! and your process was a good one, in terms of looking at other options available and then just taking an educated guess to see what would happen. A great video on the process!

[@miriamendres7415]

Thank you. I have been watching you mainly for the breeches style of patterns. I ride motor and push bikes and sometimes have to move a lot in my job. I live in a warmer climate and sweat is often an issue. I like how the knee area has come together. I am not a sewer yet, weighting up the pros and cons. I think it is more pros. Like to see the end product in a few weeks.

[@ShannonMakes]

You're welcome! I feel like a pair in light cotton or even thin wool might be nice in your circumstances, with of course some good reinforcement in the inner legs for the bike riding... being able to sew your own clothes, custom-fit, is always a PRO in my book (and remember, just because you *can* doesn't mean you're always obligated to either!)

[@miriamendres7415]

@@ShannonMakes I am thinking of either hemp or cotton. May buy a lot of white material and dye it when I am about to make something. Today I checked out sewing machines.

[@theplussizecostumer]

Oi! What a hassle you had. I fully understand that some pattern instructions are sometimes put into a weird sort of shorthand that only the designer understands. And that often there are mistakes in them that never get caught by the proofreader. As I looked at the draft from the pattern book of the knee area after you color blocked the back pieces it became clear to me why they were oddly shaped. I've seen it often on sleeve at the hem/cuff connection point, especially if they're long bishop sleeves that are full and gather into a cuff. The back edge of the sleeve will be longer than the front to accommodate the bend of the elbow. This way the back of the sleeve can look just as billowy as the front even when the wearer's arm is bent. But once you got the mock-up put together you fully understood the reasoning. I kept wishing I could go back in time and explain it too you. I'm sure it was a relief to finally figure it out. Lightbulb moments are wonderful. I cannot wait to see the finished project. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that the high back waist also has a lot to do with sitting on a horse. I used to know people who designed clothes for people who are confined to wheelchairs, and the on thing they're clients complained about was the waist of a garment. Especially with pants or skirts of any sort. The waistline pants and skirts made for those who are Not confined to a wheelchair is usually straight across the back. But people in wheelchairs have to have a higher back waist to accommodate the curve buttocks. As someone who has a very large buttocks and hips I cannot wear pants because they pull the waist down so far that, if I'm not careful, I will end up with butt cleavage. When wearing jodhpurs while on horseback, one needs the back waist to come up high. Hence the meringue butt and high waist. I understand that riding horses is not something you do, but you do ride a bicycle, and jodhpurs as they were originally designed would be good to keep you backside from becoming exposed while riding.

[@ShannonMakes]

Both of your points make a ton of sense - and actually, even though I saw how it worked in person when trying mine on, I actually really appreciate your explanation of WHY it's designed like that (and I went back and reexamined my pattern as I read your comment, to fully look at where the longest part of the pants pattern is and how that corresponds to where it falls on my leg), and YES, that fully makes a ton of sense now... Thank you!! And also, yes, I am sure you are also right about the high back area (and that completely makes sense about wheelchair accessible clothing - I had looked a little bit into "accessible clothing" earlier for a previous project, but didn't remember this part). I think that I can get away with trimming that few centimeters of height and still have my bum covered on a bike, just based off of my 1890s bloomers that I bike with - they don't go up quite as high on my back and still cover me well when biking, but I do actually intend to compare the two patterns and potentially modify this jodphur pattern based on the bloomer one (for slightly less meringue-butt). It sounds like a similar style of pants might actually do quite well for you, if you often have the butt-cleavage issue - you can always slim down on the leg, if you don't like the poof in the thighs, but keep the high rise on the back waistband!

[@theplussizecostumer]

@@ShannonMakes I'm glad I was able to help with some of the understanding of parts of the pattern. I also appreciate the encouragement concerning my pants issue. However, I have osteoarthritis in both knees which necessitates using a cane. I haven't worn pants regularly in years, I wear mostly skirts and dresses. This because I sometimes have a difficult time getting to the bathroom because of my knee pain and lifting skirts are easier than dealing with a cane when trying to get my pants down. (Sorry to be so graphic.)

[@lafken2]

I 100% intend to make my own jhodpurs at some point, and this was very illuminating. I've never drafted anything, so this helped prepare me for what is to come when I decide to tackle that 😅. Thanks for explaining your troubles and tribulations and allowing us to learn from them

[@MonaSkovJensen]

This was very interesting and informative! Drafting from manuals seems like crossing mountains!!!

[@ShannonMakes]

You know, at some points, it felt like it too! 🥾⛰️⛰️

[@MonaSkovJensen]

@@ShannonMakes 🤗

[@RealAngelOfMusic]

I love these and I've always wanted to make something like these! They look so comfy!

[@ShannonMakes]

Glad you like them! I would potentially recommend modifying an existing pattern, like I did in my "Jodhpurs: The Victorian Answer to Capri Pants" video, because drafting them yourself is generally a lot more work XD XD

[@RealAngelOfMusic]

@@ShannonMakes thank you so much!

[@LualaDy]

Very interesting! Since I started sewing, and building my own wardrobe, I'm headed slowly in the direction of practical and comfortable clothes that allow for mobility, so this was perfect for me! I would love to know how they fit over the waist for a long period of time, as it's a very sensitive area of my body (just good old chronic illness) and I'm almost feeling like I can never wear pants again.

[@ShannonMakes]

I guess the answer to your fit question depends on what you mean by waist - if you mean biological waist, as in where the top of *these* pants sit, or if you mean more a modern definition of waist, which I find people sometimes use to define "where my pants stop" and is often somewhere between the hips and the biological waist. The pants have to stay up somehow, so they need to be tight enough around the waist that they don't slide down (or else you'd need a belt, and I imagine that would actually be more irritating if it's already a sensitive area). I have seen many extant pairs that have buttons sewn in to the front and back for suspenders, so (without proclaiming to be an expert on what would and wouldn't work for you specifically) I'd tentatively suggest maybe a looser fit around the waist, in tandem with some suspenders? Or perhaps it'd be more tolerable if the entire "waistband section" from the hips up to the waist was well-fitted --without being too tight-- in order to spread the pressure out over a larger area, as opposed to just a 1" waistband?

[@LualaDy]

@@ShannonMakes I see, thanks! Yes, I was referring to the biological waist, but also where the pants stop, as I'm wearing all my skirts and trousers at the natural waist.

[@tiffanytomasino335]

There’s something so validating about seeing someone else hiccup their way through something you also struggle with. Precocious me thought I could draft out the gate 😅 then rapidly backed up and meekly sought a pattern. I love horses! Used to work with them and one day vow to have an equine of my own. But that day is as yet far off, but I’m definitely tempted by the pants. Thank you for sharing! Edit: and thank you for wanting to produce quality work rather than racing the deadline. Personally, I’d much rather see a garment you’re proud of than one you cranked out and might not feel so good about.

[@ShannonMakes]

Ooof, the final draft of these is still in my UFO stash, due mostly to bad timing and a trans-continental move, but I do want to finish them as soon as I can fit them in!!

[@tiffanytomasino335]

@@ShannonMakes that moment when someone mentions that thing you were talking about and you realize you still haven’t actually finished it 🫣😂. It takes me forever to finish a single garment so I understand. I have at least a dozen UFOs at any one time. I love to move and see new places but it does tend to fall in the way of bad timing and make all my plans go up in smoke.

[@HistoryWithCharacter]

This is getting me excited for my upcoming cosplay efforts!

[@ShannonMakes]

Oh, I think I know just which one you’re talking about, and some jodhpurs could be so cool!!

[@gaeylkanter4178]

I appreciate all the information . Thanks

[@ShannonMakes]

You're welcome, glad it was helpful!

[@fannyduvillage]

Friday afternoon, fleeing frost, wind and snow, sitting on my sofa with Miko warming my feet and looking forward to your new video any I get a mention 😁😁😁 but please feel free to use pins whenever you like 😉 Love the fit of the mockup...do I need a pair of 1941 jodphurs in my life??

[@ShannonMakes]

I just giggled so hard when I saw your comment about V’s video, and I knew I had to throw that little joke in there ☺️☺️ And yes, I have yet to finish the final pair, but I think I can say a pair of these jodhpurs would be a lovely addition to your wardrobe! 🐎🐴👖

[@gnviev]

Very love the inclusive collaboration. As always, you are so talented. Sorry for my so so English. I’m from Quebec, Canada.

[@ShannonMakes]

Inquiète-toi pas, j'habite à Montreal, donc je parle français aussi 😀 ⚜️ Glad that you enjoyed the collab!!

[@dawnjohnson8739]

Oh, my gosh, but that was an ordeal and the end results was fantastic. As far as my sewing adventures go, today I sawed on an extension to the Velcro closures on my 10 lbs ankle weights since the Velcro sticks too hard and makes it hard to remove the weights - really messes up my workout having to slow down to remove those weights. Now all fixed, though 😆 😆

[@ShannonMakes]

Thank you! Unfortunately the final product is on time-out because of a couple hiccups combined with the bad timing of a transcontinental move... but I have it in Montreal with me, and it will eventually get finished... eventually 🤣🤣

[@BethAge95]

The pattern drafting looked really challenging! Would have totally broke my brain :D Can't find the video for the final pants though. Did you not end up making them or is there just no video for it?

[@ShannonMakes]

I still have them, but I hit a hiccup in the process *right* before I had a transcontinental move, so they got paused, but brought with me, and I have yet to finish them!

[@jjez61]

Perhaps the extra in the back is to make sure when you are riding that your backside isn't subject to drafts? Or exposure to those riding behind you? My lower back is very sensitive to temperature changes, so it makes sense to me to have that extra height.

[@nathalieslachmuylders]

Great video, looking forward to seeing if and how a different fabric might influence the 'meringue' quality, that will be interesting to find out. The fit is really beautiful, and in a way, a good drafting system makes total sense compared to starting from a commercial pattern and having to make a ton of alterations to the pattern and on the mockups. Perhaps I don't have enought experience, but that seems like a more needlessly difficult and frustrating way to go about it, and requires more insight into fit issues and solutions. Looking forward to seeing your fabric too.

[@ShannonMakes]

I definitely think that drafting manuals (with well written instructions) could well be more efficient than using commercial patterns, but I think it also depends on individual preferences- some people hate math, and the thought of drafting feels overwhelming. Other ppl might have proportions (or size ranges) that aren't accounted for by the Big Four pattern companies, and drafting might be the perfect solution... I think its really an individual thing, but I quite liked it, and I can definitely see myself doing more in the future! Also, don't forget that there are (1) no assembly instructions, and (2) no instructions to tell you THAT you have to draft/HOW to draft other accessory pieces like facings, waistbands, etc (I touch on that in the 2nd video in this series)

[@stevezytveld6585]

Ah, the sweet, excruciating pain that is pattern drafting. Fractions, why does it have to be fractions... (typed in the voice of Indiana Jones when he meets the snakes in the Well of Souls). I usually get to the 'what the heck' point in the measurements and then launch in with my best guess, based on the illustration. Which... sometimes works. I go through more mock-ups than is probably necessary. Le sigh. Your mock-up looks amazing, well done. Good for you for defying the algorithmic overlords and making the pants you want to wear. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@ShannonMakes]

Yea, drafting can be oh so frustrating, for any number of reasons. I’m glad this one kinda, sorta, for the most part worked out!!

[@FantasticalFolliesCostuming]

I'd be interested to see a more in-depth video on the process. For me, seeing the mistakes people make and where they get hung up are useful learning tools (even if I'll never make jodpers.) To me, that doesn't seem to be giving out a paid pattern free on the internet (although...I'm probably not the best judge of any of this...) I do wish we'd all move away from the "colonizer" measuring system. Last time I drafted from something metric, I was doing half and half and stuff got WEIRD. Finally, love the little Monty Python nod in there 🙃

[@ShannonMakes]

So the tricky part is that the vendor is selling literally just the instructions for how to draft these... there's no "pattern" to speak of. So if I then went through how to draft it step by step, it'd be literally reading every line of the instructions that are being sold, which means there'd potentially (if one was only interested in the jodphurs and nothing else in the manual) be no reason to go out and by the same instructions from Mrs. Depew. And if I was the vendor, I'd find that disrespectful. BUT I have some ideas on how to work around it, however it doesn't seem like there's much interest (alas, one of the downsides of being a small channel), so it might get shelved :-/

[@FantasticalFolliesCostuming]

@@ShannonMakes Aaaah, yeah. I get that logic. For some reason I was thinking there was more to it. And alas, the woes of small channels! Gotta feed that algorithm. 😒

[@108papillon]

Love the doggie asleep

[@miriamgladen9615]

Like it. Did you think about easing the longer sideseam in to prevent the little hill at the knee? Please, dear Shannon, explain what are the differences between jodhpur, breeches and bloomers?

[@ShannonMakes]

No, I hadn't considered easing, I shall reflect on it for the future :-) If you'd like to learn about jodhpurs, I talk a lot about their history in my "Jodhpurs: The Victorian Answer to Capri Pants" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqHGqn2HecyLp6c

[@miriamgladen9615]

@@ShannonMakes thank you

[@TealCheetah]

Yep, knee movement is necessity in riding pants! Good job with this mess of a pattern!

[@ShannonMakes]

Yes, a very solid point! This should also come in handy for biking :-D Thank you for the compliment... I finagled my way through it eventually!!

[@camib2864]

I hate the imperial system, give me metric for the win! I like the idea of jodhpurs, I will have to give this some thought. Loved the pupper footage, too, mine is asleep under my chair right now, probably dreaming of snagging my fabric scraps and making me chase him.

[@ShannonMakes]

Metric for the win! Sleeping puppy for the win! Jodhpurs made in metric with a sleeping puppy at your feet - triple win!!!

[@metalkingtohorses]

this is why I just make my own patterns I can't read a pattern too hard, I want to make vintage jods and I'm just gna have to wing it

[@ShannonMakes]

I mean, definitely don't go into this if you're looking for the most straight-forward path to getting a pair of jodphurs! I'm in it for the challenge (and the insight and thrill of trying a genuine historical method), but when I did my steampunk jodphurs, I just altered my 1890s bloomer pattern, completely winged it, and it was faster and easier, for sure!!!

[@feleshiawright4695]

I ride , and I imagine the back is higher for midesty when your in jumping position. :)

[@ShannonMakes]

Yes, that does make sense! Since I only need them for riding bicycle, I can definitely get away with lowering them a smidge!!

[@IAmCraftingAgain]

Did you finish these?

[@ShannonMakes]

No, I hit a snag a few weeks before a trans-continental move and they got brought along with me, but not yet finished!

[@Sunsetluver1]

Am I missing it or did you never finish these?

[@ShannonMakes]

They're half done (as is the video) and in the time-out bin due to a couple hiccups and a trans-continental move

[@Sunsetluver1]

Were those horrible curved lines fo the knee patches?

[@sarahlongshore2605]

What happened to the next video ?

[@ShannonMakes]

I moved continents