1969 Pontiac GTO Judge vs. 2006 Custom Pontiac GTO - Generation Gap: GTOs

Cast your vote here: www.hagerty.com...
Today on “Generation Gap,” we’re visiting the Lingenfelter Collection. Known for Lingenfelter Performance Engineering, Ken Lingenfelter was kind enough to let us experience some of his personal cars. Being able to check a few cars off our bucket list, we decided to compare GTOs. Davin has picked the aggressive muscle of a 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge, equipped with a 366 HP 400 V-8 High Output engine with Ram Air III. Matt picked a bit of a cheater 2006 Pontiac Custom GTO. The modern GTO is straight from GM Performance with a Twin Turbo LS2 with 750 HP. Which one would you rather drive?
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[@justinmaxwell1608]

I own an 04, and my dad has a 64' both cars are kind of special in their own way. Every time I take the 04 out I enjoy driving it and I don't see any others.

[@talha93taj]

It's actually carousel red not orbit orange

[@kennyp389]

talha93taj Right! I was looking to see who else caught that!

[@MrBubba19692]

+talha93taj Orbit Orange was available in 1970. a more yellowish colour.

[@JimHolley1-Design]

+talha93taj Was just gonna post this, as I had a Ram Air IV and it was carousel red as well.

[@Zankaroo]

Looks pretty orange to me, and he didn't say it was in its factory color, It could have been repainted.

[@MrBubba19692]

Danny Hampton It is a factory '69 GTO Judge colour. As a matter of fact the first 5000 Judges made were painted Carousel Red only. Anybody who knows GTOs "Orbit Orange" is another factory colour but on a '70 GTO. Completely different. Google it.

[@CHUUMPASS]

i'm always a sucker for vintage American Muscle, so the nostalgia kicks in and wins it. but i gotta say, that 06 GTO looks as nasty as they come. certainly one of the sickest machines of the modern era. if i could go back in time i would get to a Pontiac dealership, and order 4 of them. :)

[@ScaryGhost1]

I don't know what it is about this show, call it lack of compatibility or maybe awkwardness but it just feels weird. There's no vibe like Roadkill gives off. There's always something missing and this episode is no exception. Bring out Finnegan and Freiburger!

[@ZombieDestroyer991]

This is a fucking different show,what the fuck do you want ?

[@ScaryGhost1]

ZombieDestroyer991 There's just no chemistry between the two. It's as if they're FORCED to make each episode. It's too stiff and scripted. Not a bad show, they just need to work on presentation

[@Mattwiistand]

ZombieDestroyer991 There is no chemistry its like an awkward highschool first date. Its painful too watch. I like the guys they know their stuff but they dont click well.

[@KingDavid314]

ScaryGhost1 I think there's chemistry but their complete opposites in terms of what they like. I think that's what makes this show great.

[@dcinhere]

I think that is the whole point of this series. They wanted two completely different people with polarizing viewpoints. Plus it is their first show, compatibility and presentation skills come with experience. Granted Finnegan and Freiburger make it look easy and seemed like naturals.

[@barcrrt]

Too bad that 69' Judge did not have the Ram Air IV engine. That thing was wicked!

[@trevorwilson5461]

yep, Pontiac even sold them with no trim rings on the ram air IV and charged u for weight reduction.my uncle has a spectacular ram air IV ,and I told him that he should put trim rings on it. he said it makes no sense,but I paid for no trim rings.(anyway to shave weight).

[@nageorgiou2]

360p?! Are you shittin' me motor trend?

[@weed46]

This show doesn't deserve better, maybe even motor trend doesn't want us to watch it... These 2 great cars could do for a great episode with decent hosts, not 2 muppets faking that they like one car over the other.

[@LeMecanoDuDimanche]

I think to have you wait before HD become available. I have noticed that on KZbin for several weeks/months now.

[@brongarago]

LOL you can either watch it right when it gets uploaded, in a lower quality, or wait for the video to process then watch it in HD. The uploader can wait to set the video public, so it comes out in hd, but that takes time.

[@ZombieDestroyer991]

Yea,you need to wait till its rendered,when it will be full HD

[@peralez2383]

You need MT+ to get HD

[@SophiaAphrodite]

Jeez Matt. " Hey let's take this one off custom vs your restored factory muscle car" at least fight fair.

[@foxsecret]

I had a 70' GTO with 455 and that full frame car towed a 6 x12' Uhaul box trailer loaded down at 4,000 lbs(just the trailer) and the 455 pulled it no problem. This was a 2,700 mile trip from Northern Maine to AZ. Yeah, those old cars were not only fast but were good work horses when you needed it.

[@66tbird1]

I'd take the classic, but I'm old too. Was the new one even available to the public in that configuration?

[@iceman18724]

No the new one wasn't. It just didn't have the turbo and body kit that is all.

[@prometheusmotion]

This 2006 is effectively 1 of 1. Because the newer GTOs were so (sorry to say) lame, it was a real tragedy that GM Design showed how awesome this car could have been... when it was already to late! Thanks for watching, and there is nothing wrong with voting for the old one :-)

[@iceman18724]

Jeffrey Morgan I have one of the newer one to tell the truth they out performed the old one. Only reason they didn't do well is that people couldn't afford them and people want to see a old body style on them like ford and dodge. They did out performe most ever car on the road they still do it today.

[@66tbird1]

Åhhh, but is there still room in the back seat for a good time? That is the question!

[@iceman18724]

66tbird1 there is but back seats are bucket seating and I am to old for that. He'll if you can get the car you can afford a hotel at the least

[@emmanuelmonge1720]

I love seeing these two guys get more comfortable with each other and the camera. Keep it up!

[@EljonRichardson]

Love both hands down. IF I had to choose the 06

[@FullcircleDMV]

No way

[@CJColvin]

Wow you prefer the rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia over the real 69 GTO Judge.

[@GRIM_7REAPER]

your failing on your knowledge of the Judge... the Ram Air III had more than 366HP as it was underrated as was with the RAIV not to mention the judge isn't actually orange. its carousel Red.... I just drove my 69 judge on a roadtrip to KC to meet up with a bunch of the youtube garage gang members to redo a 54 chevy truck in 2 days.... a true GTO hasn't existed since way back imo... all rise for the judge....

[@ZombiePatrol3]

I love gto judge's I don't have one now cause I'm not driving but in a few years I'm going to buy one just sucks that I can't get a good original one with a good paint job for a good price but I don't care I'll do what ever to get the one amazing car I want

[@GRIM_7REAPER]

did you ever get yourself one?

[@jessicaradway3027]

Grim Reaper you have my dream car!!!!I've it well...

[@Super11SAM11]

Nothing can seriously top a ORIGINAL JUDGE!!!!

[@greghorn7650]

Don't care about the 06 but love the 69 Judge. Even if the 06 will out perform the 69, it'll never look as good.

[@fiber9m]

i agree

[@Mbrace818]

+Greg Horn Subjective.

[@eianwahgener7623]

not really, the 06 gto looks like an effing ugly holden, because that is what it is. The LS3 mated to the 6 speed was like the one nice feature.

[@Mbrace818]

Eian Wahgener I think the 06 looks badass. It has that mean aggressive BMW-esque look in the front, and it has a very strong look overall. You probably think it's ugly because you're falling victim to "familiarity breeds contempt" as the 06 has a more familiar look to today's cars, and the 69's look isn't something you see often. If you were living in the 60's and all of a sudden saw a car with the 06's look, you'd probably think it's very bizarre but highly interesting and futuristic looking due to how unfamiliar it looks. You'd certainly be bewildered by it. Seriously, this whole "it's better because it's older" fallacy is so annoying. Learn to see the appeal in all things regardless of time-period.

[@jeaninerollins3829]

Um except its an LS-2 mated to that 6 speed!! I own a 05 yellow jacket putting down 451 at the wheels. Its a great car. Love both GTO's but having driven both the new car is heads and shoulders better on the street.

[@Brock_Landers]

I also agree. The 04-06 GTO is a rebadged Holden Menaro with a different front fascia. Having said that, I am a HUGE fan of the 04-05 GTO. I honestly never even knew that an 06 was released. I drove the LS1-350 HP powered 04 with a 6 speed and it was alot of fun, and the air ride with the low profile 18 inch wheels made it a phenomenal handling car. I never got to drive an 05 but the LS2 had to have made the car even better though because I honestly felt that the LS1 didn't have the low end torque that I felt that the car should've had to match the looks. If I'm going to buy a $40,000 V8 performance car that you have to rev the shit out of to spin the tires, then it better have a head that pops out of the lower dash and gives me pleasure while I drive because if not I'll be an unhappy customer. For me, you just can't beat the smell, the feel, and the passion of an old carbureted muscle car. I always feel like I contradict myself when I comment on these videos because I almost always love both cars but for me, nothing can beat the feeling that you get when you get behind the wheel of an vintage piece of iron with a big displacement fire breathing V8 under the hood and a big hog leg to throw around.

[@hand.mixed.music.]

The 06 kicks ass Nothing better than a wide body

[@joewilder]

I was riding in my friend's brand new 1969 Judge in 1969. We went through an intersection. The car coming from our right ran a red light and hit us square in the side. Totaled the car. No one was hurt though. PS. My favorite is the '67 GTO - I'd easily take it over either of those cars.

[@DebianDog]

New GTO: great motor - horrible looking. Looks like a bloated Grand-Am. Give me the old "Judge" any day. Put the new motor in the old one FTW!

[@trashgtaplayer1128]

i actually prefer the old look.

[@TheBrownGarage]

Undead Military Crew i think everyone does lol, who wants their muscle car to be mistaken for a pontiac sunfire

[@TheBrownGarage]

dude it does, it looks like a lsighlty bigger sunfire, same styleing and everything

[@SeamusMacMattain]

ChronicConnoisseur modern grand prix, maybe grand am, definitely not the saturn wanna be, looks nothing like it

[@TheSmittysGarage]

***** It's typical bullying because they have no actual facts to back up their argument.

[@FentonDaniel]

Great comparison of a Judge GTO and a Holden Monaro with a turbo...

[@TheBrownGarage]

ya right, im like so witch gto came with a turbo and wide body from gm? o theres only 1 in the world, and production model sold like shit

[@kmi187]

Silly wabbit, cleary that's a Vauxhall monaro.

[@SpudsMcHaggis]

kmi187 Which is just a re-badged Holden Monaro! :)

[@clonmult]

Spuds McHaggis Which was "just" a rebodied Vauxhall/Opel Omega :)

[@rm6330]

clonmult Incorrect, the car was originally a Holden Monaro re-badged as a Vauxhall/Opel and a GTO for international markets.

[@carlosharris78]

Would love to see that judge with the new gto powerplant!

[@TheModernPioneer]

For the first time on this show, I can't choose. I love them both.

[@prometheusmotion]

Even Davin was conflicted!

[@Blaze-hr2pk]

Just a quick mention, that the Judge’s orange color is called “Carousel Red.” Most GTO enthusiasts would already notice. I wanted one of those for half my life, but when it came time to by a Judge, I feel in love with the “Liberty Blue” ( code 52), which I still have today. I owned a “Cosmo Purple”, GTO until someone ran into it at a stop street, totaling other baby. 🥲 I loved them both equally !

[@paulrollins604]

I own an 05 Yellow Jacket M-6 GTO 41k miles Love the car. Does it look like a 69?? Nope but its not 69!! How does it perform?? Mine has 451 HP at the wheels. She can run for sure. With the upgrades it handles great. Gives me about 24 or so on the highway.

[@chrislycan2495]

Paul Rollins Nice!! I have a 1975 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400. This beauty was used in Nascar and competed with Corvettes. Luckily it has the 557 engine block and it can handle up to 550 to 630 HP. But I'm not here to compete with other modern cars. I just like how people say the there newer cars can beat me. But I don't even try since the sound of this car is NASTY.

[@paulrollins604]

Love the older Camaros and birds, I had a 74 maro back in the day. Nice car but my 05 GTO walks all over it in every way.

[@brysonhooke4959]

06

[@seattleblaze]

It may not be 1969 but shouldn't the 06 look something like a GTO? It looks like a newer Pontiac coupe. Just because it's fast, doesn't make it a GTO - Pontiac is just using the name for marketing. It's not a GTO because it looks absolutely nothing like a GTO, insulting to a legend!

[@norisboren5402]

A relative drove a Vietnam war era Pontiac GTO 1969 , Hurst 4 in the floor , 400 cu. in. , Red on Red and explained how he raced others & mentioned ALL others lost , including ... well I'm not gonna say for sake of others . Then stored it and sold after many generations for * * * * * .

[@ekscalybur]

Are they seriously suggesting its ok to compare performance of a production car from the late 60s, to a factory backed custom build sporting 21st century tech? Come the fuck on, don't insult the intelligence of your audience like this.

[@georgeferrer23]

I have to say, I'm 37 years old and love the modern muscle cars but I'll definitely pick the judge over the holden any day.

[@5150SS]

George Ferrer. I think I love you. LOL. I feel the same way. Steel over plastic any day. I would take a muscle car from the 60's or 70's before I would even consider taking a modern car and I am only 40 years old. Gotta go with the classics

[@CJColvin]

​@@5150SS Amen to that brother

[@Maxatax15]

No question I'd take the 1969! I'm biased though because my dad has a 1971. Can't beat that muscle car feel!

[@CJColvin]

Amen to that Brother

[@tomkeyte9920]

4:30 gotta love that classic V8 muscle sound...

[@rubenpatrickwilsonlumaless4571]

Speaking about The Judge, if I can buy it, I'm not buying that car physically but, but exactly the glorious history of that GTO and I am truly loving it, As For Me, The Judge Wins My Heart..

[@frankgn87]

Orbit orange?? !! LOL!! Thats NOT Orbit orange, that a 70 only color. That is Coursel red!

[@jdl6881]

Frank S I know right

[@garywood9525]

Yes, and the Oshawa Pontiac plant in canada supplied the Judge but only in carousel red . I saw one in July 69 with the hide away light , 4 spd and Hood Tach . A real Judge didn't have those trim rings on the wheels which was on the GTO , the steering wheel is a stock version and there were 2 up grade designs. The early ones didn't have JUDGE on the glove box , plus it wasn't until spring 69 that the limited colours expanded to about 13 colours. One GTO came from the Plant in blue with a white nose , the factory had trouble with that colour and called the dealer to alert the customer....the next choice was white which they had and installed.

[@Blood_Goddess]

You are correct but I still never understood the naming of that color. Its no were near looking red.

[@RayfieldA]

This video helped me to respect the 2006 GTO. I Truly feel that if Pontiac made the effort to make the 2006 Look a bit more retro in respect of the original Goat, it would have Saved Pontiac from going under.

[@CJColvin]

Exactly mate but instead they just made a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia mate.

[@AutoYoung]

I could've sworn that color was Carousel Red.

[@prometheusmotion]

In person it was definitely very very Orange! Like, so orange it made the cars around more orange. Thanks for watching!

[@AutoYoung]

Jeffrey Morgan I know it's orange but the name they gave that color from the factory was Carousel Red. Never understood why Pontiac named a clearly ORANGE color red but kudos to them it's sexy.

[@hagertymatt8520]

Auto Young Pfft. Figures Davin would get it wrong.

[@AutoYoung]

Matt Lewis LOL

[@dougbillings2046]

No no no

[@RobertBrumley60]

The 69' Judge is worth far more money than the new GTO. A true collector piece.

[@MrSlowestD16]

I love the new GTO/Holden, but I'd go with the old Judge on this one.

[@fotomedia1]

The 60s Era had the best looking cars, best classic body styles hands down. Technology has improved leaps and bounds since then but the old classic cars are still the kings on my list.

[@gaivoron]

That's 2006 gto looks like it's been in a fender banner at some point. The nose doesn't sit straight on that car. And paint if ugly.

[@gmoney1592]

The 69 GTO Judge is Carousel Red . Not Orbit Orange. There is no comparison the Judge is a legend . And one of the best muscle cars ever produced.and the 366 horse the Ram Air III was rated was ridiculous. They were closer to 425-430 hp.

[@dalecocking2907]

why you no HD?

[@VL1975]

first time on KZbin? noob.

[@dalecocking2907]

dude get a life

[@VL1975]

Dale Cocking sounds like you need to get a life. Or learn how KZbin works. Noob. LOL

[@dalecocking2907]

I was joking around. how dare you call your self a car guy.

[@VL1975]

Dale Cocking You're a funny guy Cocking.

[@Gerald5000]

It's nice to see competetive guys that seem to genuinely be buddies. Makes the arguments much more interesting. The 2006 has it's roots in Australian commodores and HSVs so it doesn't quite have the lineage to muscle cars and revamped new generation of them but it is essentially what car guys here in Australia are doing so if you love it, you'd have a field day down under.

[@gregbarker504]

The new one is depreciating the old one is appreciating!!

[@drm9979]

not really. the new ones never went below a very good resale value and these last five years have actually already appreciated.

[@CJColvin]

​@@drm9979 They'll never be as valuable as the originals though.

[@fatjeezussouthtexasoutdoor5244]

The classic judge with the modern twin turbo ls would be so cool

[@Arthurzeiro]

I think that the newer GTO is an Australian car isn't it? I'd rather have the Ute version of that.

[@charleserps848]

I own a 2006 GTO with minor performance upgrades. It's a silver 6 spd. and it's my daily driver. I love the car, it handles like it's on rails thanks to a 3 inch drop with Bilstine struts and springs. For the money it's the most performance you can buy. Basically a four seat Corvette with a steel body. I couldn't be happier with the car, and there is no doubt that it has already attained collector status. I realize that it's a Holden, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a GTO.

[@CJColvin]

Nope it's still Holden Monaro from Australia and it's built in Australia as well unlike the original 69 GTO Judge

[@TheEndOfTheInternet]

It's funny, I never sat and thought about how the modern GTO disappeared In 3 short years.... The old GTO is raw American power and can be fixed with a hammer. The new GTO with its turbos and fancy computer tuning is amazing but I feel slightly disconnected from the soul of the car. The judge gets my vote.

[@drm9979]

have you actually driven an 05-06? tons of GTO owners became owners from a single test drive. including me. also, the 04-06 always was planned with a three year lifespan because 2007 introduced new safety requirements such as side air bags which required a complete reworking of the car. That is why it had a three year lifespan.

[@CJColvin]

Amen to that brother

[@CJColvin]

​@@drm9979 Then how come it didn't sold well then?

[@drm9979]

@@CJColvin hopefully this is an honest question and this will be civil and not be a discussion of insults and foolishness. my belief is there were some mistakes made, the 2004 Bob Lutz himself has indicated should have had some modifications. It should have had hood scoops, it should have had a dual exhaust. It should have had 18" wheels. it should have had the beautiful rear re-design that was done for 2005-2006. also, there was the initial curious and sometimes bitter resentment from the old-timers, most of whom have since come full circle. also, I believe it may be true, as I have read, there were forces within GM that actually wanted it to not succeed. If so, it sold very well for those circumstances. most importantly, it does not even matter. the coolest muscle car of all time, the 1970-1974 Cudas did not sell well either, only a five year lifespan and then killed forever, they sold literally just a fraction of what Camaros and Mustangs sold, even though many (including me) believe they were superior in design (although 69-70 Mustangs were awesome, as were 1969 Camaros). less than 5000 Cudas were sold in 1974, far lower than GTO numbers. but they are gold at auction today.

[@CJColvin]

@@drm9979 True, now had the 04-06 GTO had retro looks with modern performance and not a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia it would've sold extremely well and Pontiac would've still been around to this day whooping on Mopars.

[@justussutherland597]

Back in the day, my Dad had a 1970 GTO with a 400, he could eat up any Judge he raced. He never lost in that car either.

[@pleite567]

ae86 vs gt 86 plz

[@TheBrownGarage]

ooo thats a good one

[@Danielski.]

The AE86 is too new for Davin lol :P

[@akidonacouch]

American show so its a Scion FR-S for some strange reason.

[@drewx420]

akidonacouch AE86 Should win.. Will win.. Always wins.. Its the underdog that will always come out on top if the driver has the skill to handle that short wheelbase..

[@HamishRoake]

drewx420 having driven both in their stock form, the gt86 is a betrer car from factory. Faster in a straight line, and better suspension from factory, with a smoother gearbox

[@bmoney7771]

69, looks, and power for the year, I wish Pontiac came back

[@leewhitworth9142]

Alright, I gotta give my opinion. 1969 GTO wins. I absolutely adore the 1969 Judge because it looks iconic. The 2006 one looks too... "normal". That's my opinon. Peace Out.

[@CheetahFoxx]

That's what I love about it. I don't want a car who's body shouts 'Look at me! I'm so big and mean and fast!' to everyone. I want a car that is an unassuming, button-down oxford shirt psychopath waiting to explode.

[@Blood_Goddess]

@@CheetahFoxx I dont buy a muscle car to look normal. You want normal, buy and everyray sedan. When buying a any type of performance car you're wanting something that sticks out from the ordinary. I absolutely loved the second gen Trans Ams had the bird all over lol

[@CheetahFoxx]

@@Blood_Goddess But that's the thing; not everyone wants a performance car because it's something that "sticks out from the ordinary". The only reason I want a performance car so I can go fast. I feel strangely obscene driving a big loud car out in public. I'm a shy person and don't like all that attention. So when I got my GTO, I removed the spoiler, SAP front body kit, "6.0" badges, replaced the 05 hood with the 04 scoopless hood, and am now looking to put the 04 bumper and single-side exhaust on it. At the same time, the suspension has been completely redone to be stiffer and stronger, I got long tube headers, a FAST LSX intake manifold, and I hope to procharge it soon. My car is unassuming Clark Kent just quietly toodling down the main streets in town, and then when I'm all alone on the winding mountain roads, he takes off his glasses, and Superman has arrived.

[@BurntRAM]

it looks like a soccer mom car with a body kit. (grand am)

[@frostednut2936]

@@Blood_Goddess youve obviously never heard of sleeper culture or just factory sleeper cars in genral

[@jerryorrell4856]

I am 66 years old. The classic GTO's are the most beautiful sleek muscle cars of that 60's era. However, this wide body 06 looks very healthy and would love to drive and own it. The 06 is definitely a head turner and should be added to the stable with the classic GOATS.

[@CJColvin]

Well it's actually a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia so there for not a real true Pontiac unlike this beautiful 69 GTO Judge.

[@VolkswagenGamer]

I don't even watch anymore I just vote. The mash-ups are meh and the hosts come off as fake.

[@tonyvaccaro98]

I don't want to watch this b/c Matt never wins. I thought for sure the Fiero would win! People these days only care about looks when it comes to cars.

[@prometheusmotion]

Anthony Vaccaro Matt does have the uphill battle on our show. Cars after 1974 really took a hit with emissions and safety regulations. That said, Matt has won once, and maybe he can do it again! We do find (here at Hagerty) that the classic car guys all make sure to vote. So you have to rally your friends if you want to give Matt a chance!

[@prometheusmotion]

Sorry you feel that way, VWGamer. While not all the comparisons are amazing, we really think a lot of them are fun! Matt and Davin are as legit as it comes regarding know how and love for collector cars. I was just in Matt's driveway getting help with a repair on my Jetta 2 hours ago! We really went for authentic and real on our show. It's what Hagerty stands for. Genuine fun and love for the hobby. What would you like to see change for the show to entertain you more?

[@VolkswagenGamer]

Jeffrey Morgan I don't have a problem with Petrolicious because it just feels more personal. You see the connection between the car and the owner. The problem with this show is that it feels like the hosts don't spend enough time in the car and really don't show how passionate they are about the car (If you guys don't have the cars for very long than I realize that it isn't your fault). I know they don't read a script all the time but from my point of view it just seems that way. Sorry for the long winded comment.

[@tonyvaccaro98]

plus.google.com/u/0/111983698478949719152 You're right other than the voting I really love the show. I think the bickering they do isn't scripted. I really love the cars they pick too!

[@JamisonLaclair]

This was cool I got to see all those cars this spring during a tour

[@drtony999]

Of course the 1969 GTO wins hands down...the new one was just a rebadged Holden

[@armymatt83]

Tony Patt reality check for you. the 2004-2006 gto was deserving of the name since the first gto was nothing more than a performance package for the tempest.

[@losangelesfine]

Show some respect --- that "package" is the daddy of MUSCLECARS. The Holden was a corporate mistake that Ford and Chrysler corrected with

[@armymatt83]

KayKars , Mike hey dummy the last time I checked stating a fact is not disrespectful and that Holden is worthy of the GTO badge so what that it doesn't look like the old GTO neither did the mustang,camaro, or firebird for a long time. but retards that want to whine about it's looks are why it and Pontiac are gone.

[@ramairgto72]

armymatt83 Holden is not GM... You cant just build a car and say "Oh it's GTO worthy"... just cuz you like it. Geo Metro is a Suzuki ... is it "worthy" to be a Chevy... ? What if Mazda built the next mustang? This is how "American" The Holden GTO is. Car build in Australia, rebaged to GTO, and I say GTO because they didn't put "Pontiac" any place on the car till someone bitched. Engine CHEVY, cast where at.. Canada... Trans could come from many places but none the USA. Even the PCM has a "HOLDEN ONLY" tune. Not Pontiac, Not GM and not American..

[@armymatt83]

ramairgto72 shows how little you know. Holden has been GM since the 60's

[@OUTFXD]

Performance wise the 2006 wins all categories hands down. That being said, to say I'm not fond of its looks is an understatement. If its a question of which car would I rather be seen driving,The judge walks away with it.

[@Jordendog]

Unless the 2006 is crapping golden eggs out the exhaust, I`ll always take the 1969 Goat.

[@sdushdiu]

Even if it IS crapping golden eggs, it loses to a 67-69 GTO

[@RootsandTendrils]

Aghem. The 1969 Judge here examined is in Carousel Red. Orbit Orange was a 1970 colour. A better colour and a better looking car, the absolute pinnacle of design for the GTO. Plus a patient buyer could have outfitted a '70 Judge with the high compression High Output 455 Ram Air motor, the one and only year it was available. Now to the hosts lets see if you can get this right, did the '69 Judge come with the F41 suspension employing boxed lower rear control arms and a rear stabilizer bar?

[@joshhyman6317]

Pontiac GTO: Renamed Aussie Holden Monaro. Never meant to be a pontiac. initially conceptualized as a 2-door version of the much loved and ever-evolving Holden Commodore... Aussie muscle that the American's call their own...

[@CJColvin]

Exactly mate

[@numotoring2074]

Love the look of the old style, but the wide body kit definitely makes the new, not so GTO looking GTO look good, if I could I'd throw the handling and performance of the new under the judge, and the creature comforts (made of light weight material to keep the weight down) inside, but definitely keep all the old school styling

[@daisydodge8536]

The 69 is one million times better.

[@CJColvin]

Amen to that brother

[@boneworksofc.7333]

Can't beat the classics.

[@jasonn2284]

The new GTO was forging its own path and in my opinion the design was all wrong. Now Pontiac is dead. Pontiac should've done what Ford and Chevy did to its mustang and Camaro. Make it look like a modern 60/70s style and we could argue that Pontiac may still be alive today if they did what it's competitors did.

[@CJColvin]

Exactly mate, who knows it could've even out do Dodge by a long shot.

[@michaelwarnas7007]

06 has gm corporate engine in it, it's made in Australia. There's nothing Pontiac about except maybe the emblems. 69 hands down. It's the only Pontiac that showed up.

[@CJColvin]

Exactly mate

[@SuperBombbud]

Why not stock vs stock

[@TheBrownGarage]

right, to be fair they shoulda brought a production 06 gto and find a old suped up judge that runs 9 or 10 1/4s

[@mannyyp_]

That's what I'm saying!

[@JayB-fn2or]

It doesn't make much sense to suddenly have massively modified cars on this series so I have to agree. I have a sneaking feeling though that in order to use the GTO judge they had to also show off their new GTO for advertising purposes. Thats business I guess...

[@Willko_Racing]

The thing is, like matt said it came from GM performance, so it IS stock, its just the only one of its kind.

[@JayB-fn2or]

Thats not really a production car though. The judge had many built while the newer gto is a concept car really. Even famous race variants of many cars needed homologation. I can see your view though.

[@trollprepper]

the new one is the PERFECT accessory for a collector of the original. Well done to Ken! That said if I could only have one.. there is only one choice. the 1969 Judge.

[@GothamAsylum]

69 wins

[@Tekhsheen]

;) if you know what I mean

[@tonyvaccaro98]

Why??? Looks are not everything people!

[@TheSupermonkeymaster]

Don_Dominguez Not in HP

[@Tekhsheen]

TheSupermonkeymaster Unless it's a go-kart then it's insane

[@HardHatDIver412]

Anthony Vaccaro maybe people do not like a plastic piece of shit?...

[@TheJesterXtreme]

As critical as i was on the earlier episodes. This one was great. dialog seem to flow between these two much easier, and they seemed much more relaxed and generally entertaining. And no question..the old "Judge" is a GTO ,not that aftermarket modified pos. The new one was just a turbo grand prix.

[@CJColvin]

Yep you got it brother, Heck it's not even a Pontiac, it's a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia mate.

[@DigitalCyborgman]

I'm a guy that only believes in paying for GTO: Gas, Tires and Oil...

[@dustylover100]

Girls take over.

[@Archangel0804]

The 2006 is pure performance mostly due to 37 years of technology. It's badass, BUT....the 69 GTO is pure Rock n Roll. Nothing better than the rumble of these classic muscle cars

[@M67v]

'06 GTO!

[@brenan318]

everyone knows the old judge, but that '06 is badass

[@DriverAnonim]

and plz show '69 charger vs new charger

[@joshkiej6601]

yeah 69/68 charger r/t vs new charger srt8

[@joshkiej6601]

yeah 69/68 charger r/t vs new charger srt8

[@jhvyper]

I agree with the assesment but I too would love to own a 69 Judge. The namesake alone is a headturner

[@hiazn69]

the 2006 model is really a Holden Monaro

[@TheTomlikes]

A toyota gt86 is really a Subaru brz and a Subaru brz is really a scion frs... Your point is?

[@MarkiusFox]

Tom Benton The Toyoubaru was developed cooperatively by Toyota and Subaru. The Holden Monaro came before the Pontiac "GTO". It shows a lack of creativity.

[@hiazn69]

Tom Benton What J. Hammac said. Pontiac didn't put any effort into the new GTO, just rebranded another vehicle, which happens to be Australian. SMH

[@TheSmittysGarage]

***** It's better to build a car that you can make your own. Leaving the car bland looking but with the performance to suprise you opens up many aftermarket opportunities.

[@MarkiusFox]

bOB SmItty Uhh, dude, you just came outta left field. What are you talking about?

[@threemsrc6964]

1969 GTO all the way. Without the wide-body kit, the 2006 would get lost in a parking lot.

[@prometheusmotion]

When we were shooting, Davin really wanted to drive around and see if someone would pull up to race him, lol. That would be a surprise! Once people see the roll bar, they realize what they are dealing with. :-) Thanks for watching!

[@JoshsCarCorner]

They completely ignore the fact that the GTO was killed in 2006 because Holden stopped making them and would not authorize GM USA to make them in North America. Actual fact, Holden stopped making Monaros for Australia at the end of 2005. They continued to make GTO exclusively for the US through July 2006. The platform was killed because the Zeta platform was coming. Failing to mention this and blaming GM for not following through with a Judge version is a horrible argument.

[@prometheusmotion]

OldskoolGP - I produce this show for Hagerty, I believe what Matt was saying was that this modified GTO was as close to a Judge as he thought would be seen after the original. The implication made in the video is that poor sales were the reason the newer GTO did not continue. Whether that was why Holden had them stop or why Pontiac stopped buying them is a good discussion point. I just wanted to clarify what I think Matt and Davin were getting at. Either way, we all feel it's a real tragedy Pontiac put out this awesome prototype right at the end of the run and it was to little to late. Thanks for watching!

[@JoshsCarCorner]

My point is that GM did not choose to stop making them. The platform the GTO was built on (the V RWD platform) was dated and being replaced by the Zeta platform that underpins the Commodore, and in the US the G8 and Camaro. The car we received was already the hottest version that Holden made, actually that HSV made to be precise. The LS2 produces more power than the platform was ever designed to handle and had to be reworked in 2005 to handle the extra power. Holden would not permit GM to build them in the US so even if they wanted to change it, they couldn't.

[@prometheusmotion]

Interesting! Holden sounds like an interesting company. Where do you recommend people go to read up on them?

[@JoshsCarCorner]

One of the reasons this show doesn't exist anymore. They didn't know what they were talking about half the time.

[@CaptainFALKEN]

Josh's Car Corner The last GTO was 72

[@jasonn2284]

Jay Leno needs to do a video on the GTO

[@rayarsenault1618]

I agree .Great idea! I had a 68 4 speed way back when!

[@Bobbydog66]

Ya might want to check out his newest vid then ;)

[@kevin122759]

No matter what the new gto looked like, there would be those who would not like it. It would have still been powered by an LS2 motor. It still looks better then that 73 and 74 gto. That was a disgrace to the name.

[@CJColvin]

But yet will never look as beautiful as the original GTOs from the 1960s.

[@kevin122759]

@@CJColvin I had a 1970 GTO many years ago. Living in the midwest with salt on the roads, it rotted away. I am not into retro styles. That is a lazy persons design team. Cars from the 60s were easily recognized by the year, make and model. Remember the 1969 Camaro? 1970 Camaro? Both completely different.

[@CJColvin]

@@kevin122759 True, have you heard of a restomod before mate, also how come the newer GTO from Australia didn't sell well then?

[@Bobbydog66]

I'm sorry, but the "new" gto is a holden monaro with a name plate thrown on. I love the monaro as a monaro, but it's not a gto, but since holden doesn't exist here, they named it a pontiac and tried to market it as a gto to get money. I mean they do that with a lot of import cars by labeling them something else, but I just feel it does a disservice to both cars. I'd love to to see a comparison of the monaro to a monaro of the gto's year.

[@whershkowitz4669]

I'll take The Judge!

[@dstewartten]

I being from Australia I love the 69 GTO Judge the modern GTO is a Monaro here in Australia and the HSV devision did the GTO and love the hsv GTO , but I would take the original in a heart beat

[@chubroski527]

Not exactly a fair comparison...are you f*cking kidding me? And no seatbelts? Nice...

[@6806goats1]

Dig them both. Wish I haven't been forced to sell my 06.

[@Billyboy4209]

One is American and one isn't, that should be a big enough difference. The only thing they have in common is is a sticker...

[@jeaninerollins3829]

The heartbeats in them are American. One is a Pontiac heart the other a Chevy.

[@Billyboy4209]

+Jeanine Rollins sorry but I'm having trouble understanding how a car designed and manufactured by A Australian car company for Australians and then rebranded for Americans has an American heartbeat? the 2006 is gm but that's but buy default , it's really called a Monaro made by Holden and Holden is a Australian car company owned by GM.gm being lazy just rebranded it as a gto. Look it up.

[@KnightIndustries572]

..and that American heartbeat carried in 5 decades of world class Australian muscle cars from Ford and GM Holden is being extinguished by Detroit execs. The Gen 5 Camaro was developed and engineered in Melbourne Australia on the locally developed Zeta platform (VE Commodore), it was the Gen 5 Camaro that set a NEW benchmark in what American pony/muscle cars could achieve, this was the first WORLD CLASS Camaro and it stung Ford USA into developing an equally competitive world class Mustang for the 6th gen. Without Australian know how, ingenuity, passion and skill I doubt the current golden age of American muscle car would be what it is today. Fans of modern American muscle are indebted to Australia for its design and engineering legacy. Even this unfairly maligned Australian made GTO? What did America produce back in 2006 that was any better? answer, NOTHING. Chevy Malibu, Lumina or some other front-wheel-drive garbage with a body kit? Mustang? well, better than the 4th gen, but not like the dynamics of the Holden/Pontiac GTO. ..oh and who designed the stunning 2017 Ford GT.?.that's right another Australian, Todd Willing, poached from Ford engineering and design centre in Melbourne. Designing America's premier supercar....

[@Billyboy4209]

+Knight Industries nice bit of info, To bad it's irrelevant in this conversation other then it being Australian like I already stated.go troll elsewhere thanks...

[@markb1511]

I was never a fan of the new GTO, but that thing is BEAST.

[@Rockstarbeast21]

Dont like the new judge, looks like a ricer, tinted taillights just ruined it, looks more as a coupe then a muscle

[@SnakesAndArrows71]

The body kit ruined it for me... but even then the new gtos always looked lame

[@SnakesAndArrows71]

***** I like the new GTOs I think they look fine I just dislike this ones body kit. It would have been more of a sleeper without it. The reason the GTO failed was well most GTO enthusiasts were disappointed by it. My friend has an 04 GTO with the ls1 and a procharger on it we put a new cam and crank in it and its a really fun car to drive. The six speed makes it even more fun and even bearable to drive daily which he does during the summer months.

[@bcaffrey98]

I have to say that the 66/67 GTOs were, to me, the better looking car than the fast-back styling of the later goats. But then, I always preferred the Roadrunner to the GTO, mostly because you could get it with a 440 cid engine with the 6-pack.

[@seattleblaze]

It's not a new Judge and they never said it was.

[@CJColvin]

Yep you got it brother

[@Fleadabomb99]

atleast this episode of generation gap is comparing two cars that make sense.Its a step in the right direction, I just dont think this series will last, 360p isnt helping Motortrend!

[@Tigermoto]

Am I missing something or was this a test of a real car against what's essentially a prototype? I'm not American, so you can all pretty much assume I don't 'get' muscle cars, but 'The Judge's is a car even I adore. The prototype there, even with its clad on styling, and ridiculous power just looks like any other sports car. I'm all for the judge on this one.

[@Nowforever13]

06 was a rebadged Holden monaro it's Australian

[@brendonburgess9721]

+Nowforever13 ...for 15 millionth time!

[@CJColvin]

Yep you got it brother but these modern GTO lovers will never learn.

[@ringvaldse]

I owned one of these Holden Monaro/Chevy Lumina SS/Pontiac GTO's. Having owned three C-5 Corvettes prior to the GTO I was really disappointed. The car felt sluggish compared to the Vettes because it weight 500lbs more, the styling of the car made it look like a pregnant Grand Am and on the inside the Grand Am had a more impressive looking dashboard. The tolerances were so tight that the inside tread of the front tire would be shaved off by the front suspension. I had to have my ignition switch replace twice in two years because they locked up. Makes the car kinda hard to drive when the key won't turn. There were quite a few complaints about these cars to the NHTSB considering they only built about 15000 of them in three years. I used to tell people that those GTO's were a good example of why Pontiac is no longer with us.

[@CJColvin]

I agree 💯%

[@Jacobe2of4]

I would want both...So I could hack the maloo up and swap in all the good stuff.

[@Zankaroo]

+Jacobe2of4 Resto mod is best in my book. Keeps old stuff on the road, and safe.

[@CJColvin]

​@@Zankaroo Amen to that brother

[@ruslanvaliullin7734]

1:41 the judge was an upper scale gto, not a low cost stripper.

[@MrTurboist]

That body kit on the 2006 Custom Pontiac GTO is horrible & very cheap looking

[@VAULTDUDE69]

it's got to be the judge dude! that thing is so cool!

[@999benhonda]

2006 Pontiac GTO, possibly the worst modern take on a muscle car. Even when comparing the highly modified version to the old car, the modern one still loses. It doesn't have the looks, and even tho it may have crazy HP and better handling, Id much rather drive around in the old one. I might go as far as to say I wouldn't want to be seen driving the modern one.

[@geerstyresoil3136]

^^^obviously never driven a 04-06 GTO^^^

[@999benhonda]

^^^obviously didn't read my comment. I said the new one is faster, more powerful and no doubt handles better. But it does not deserve to be called a muscle car nor should it bear the GTO badge. It doesn't have half the style the old car does. It may be fun to drive, but I would take the old gto over the new gto any day.

[@fitguyonline1502]

RCPro Driver are you serious about it not being called a "Muscle" car... Why? Because it doesn't look bulky? A 6.0 GTO is definitely a "Muscle" car. What's your argument? Just because it isn't as bulky? Are you forgetting the 400 HP? I'm with you on the GTO badge though, but please tell me why you wouldn't put this in the Muslce Car category? It's American, it has a huge engine, and it has the power... I'd clearly take a 5.7 GTO over a 4.6 Mustang... or a GT... if those qualify, then hell... anything with 250hp should qualify if it's American lol...

[@999benhonda]

it may have the power, be RWD and fast.....but it is not styled like a muscle car. But that is my opinion. I wouldn't throw the car away if someone gave one to me....but if I had the money there are many other cars I would buy instead. the car's style has no flare. You could take off the GTO badge and it could be mistaken for any other Pontiac. some of the modern mustangs hardly deserve to be called muscle cars either. again, my opinion.

[@fitguyonline1502]

agree, was just wondering what you deemed a muscle car. I have a ws6 01, but I'd def take a 6.0 GTO over it lol...

[@livewirelivewire5280]

It's tough ! But old 69 judge is the best ever ,,,I want both

[@Anony-Mouse28]

the ultimate gto is the ferarri 250 GTO, DUUUUUHHHHH!!!!!

[@ZerotheWanderer]

288 GTO

[@alexander1485]

nope, its the Mitsubishi GTO thats the ultimate!

[@alexander1485]

Harrison Conyers You might want to understand what sarcasm is.

[@TheoldSouth]

alexander1485 I never know with some of these kids on KZbin

[@frankietorcasio8522]

Haha, true

[@RianEffendi]

Holden Monaro... H.S.V coupe gto... 2 door Commodore. Forever an Aussie classic. Who cares what seppo's think.

[@randallrichmond838]

Sorry people, the new GTO is the bomb! I own one, and it will outperform that old turd in every aspect! The old judge was a slug. These idiots claiming that it was as fast as big block Chevelles, Mustangs or Hemi Cudas is ridiculous.

[@mexikong00]

You have nothing but a grand am with a V-8 big deal. The old man had a 67' Plymouth GTX 440/4spd back in the day and said he would beat just about everything except a GTO judge. That new GTO will never be worth what that 69' Judge is worth.

[@coup5oh]

+mexikong00 a 440 gtx would smoke a judge in most cases. a bad driver in the plymouth might make enough difference to even the odds.

[@1spunkymonkey2]

Randall Richmond Dude the new GTO is a Holden Monaro rebadged, and a 440 Hemi Cuda' would make the shit new GTO eat its rubber.

[@jonhnnywooderd9041]

Randall Richmond 100% facts bro

[@CJColvin]

You're new GTO is nothing but a rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia mate and also just to let you know that my 1996 Ford F150 with a 5.0L (302) Windsor V8 will outlast whatever you drive mate.

[@archittt1]

A few problems with this video. The Judge is Carousel Red not Orbit Orange, The trim rings should not be on the car. but still a nice car.

[@rocklow243]

Put the new performance in the old judge I would be in heaven.

[@Seryous]

Guys are doing an awesome job. I like how this show is not over produced. It's more real IMO. Although, I hate watching it in 360p. Why hasnt this video converted yet? 1080p+ or bust.

[@prometheusmotion]

Thank you very much! One of our goals at Hagerty is to be genuine with our content. It's hard when a lot of people expect Jersey Shore levels of "reality" haha. The 360p thing is just heartbreaking. KZbin just got hung up on the render, and now we don't want to re-upload because all the views and comments go away. They don't allow you to replace a video once it is live. The NEXT Lingenfelter Gen Gap will be back to full rez, I am sure.

[@TheFRiNgEguitars]

Gentlemen, the '69 is in "Carousel Red" the same as Chevy's "Hugger Orange" (same paint code) Both cars are awesome!