1984 vs. Brave New World | Orwell vs. Huxley | Polandball/Countryball Dystopian Literature

[@CallMeEzekiel]

*💬Bonus reading below: Aldous Huxley and Psychedelics.* 🥰Patreon: www.patreon.com/CallMeEzekiel ▶️KZbin Memberships: kzbin.info/door/nZ1r94_Ptz_1gN5VBnE0Mgjoin ⭐SubscribeStar: www.subscribestar.com/CallMeEzekiel 🙏PayPal: www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=EAQPBZ8VHGFL6 📚Main sources: 👁1984: amzn.to/3TWtfDP 💉Brave New World: amzn.to/3DtjpCd Note: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Crypto: 💸 🟠BTC: bc1qj2szqj0h0rj2zz5x0zdhr8fzrh85zmatwxht26 🔵ETH: 0x0344A4aF3eCe5F8E5C0f65FC4c7eB667bf31cD60 You can also watch us on... 👀 ❤️Odysee: odysee.com/@CallMeEzekiel 💚Rumble: rumble.com/CallMeEzekiel *💬Bonus Reading:* One of the reasons why the Brave New World is so sterile and scientific is that Aldous Huxely had a major interest in psychedelics and inner spiritual life. So when he created a dystopia he designed it to be one that practically abolishes the inner life and spirit and is almost entirely external and material. His society does partly acknowledge the inner life but it’s tightly controlled through Soma, the Feelies, and other means. This means that the Brave New World is more tempting to us today than it would have been to the people of Huxley’s time, and especially to Huxley himself. We are far more materialistic today than they, or Huxley, ever were. We are certainly closer to the Brave New World now than we have been at any time before…

[@martinsto8190]

Brave new world: kinda like the society in Fahrenheit 451 if it didn't get destroyed in its one-day nuke war at the end of the book.

[@Zorro9129]

Ezekel, please talk about Peter Kemp in your upcoming video! He was one of the few Britishmen to fight on the side of the Nationalists and gives a detailed account in "Mine Were of Trouble." Later on in WW2 he participated in numerous special operations against the Germans.

[@bananacabana2817]

Perfect ending music

[@covenawhite4855]

Fahrenheit 451 is the most common today. It is a mix of 1984 and Brave New World with less SCI-FI technology. It is like Brave New World with a society focused on happy entertainment, recreational drugs, and lack of love for your friends and family except on a superficial level. People don't question the Government because they are comfortable enough. The Characters we see are Middle Class. Like 1984 book are burned and media can't criticize the Government. You are arrested for having books and your house burns down. The society also in War. The government has Propaganda to how happy they are. The main characters wife turns him into the police. And arrests are shown on TV to entertain and scare the public It doesn't have Genetic engineering of Brave New World. Or the New Speak is not a thing. Constant Surveillance is not a thing. Fahrenheit 451 burns controversial books. But people share books illegally in small Anarchist homeless groups. And people in society decided on censorship being a law not a dictatorship government. The government listened to the people and used censorship for it's advantage.

[@zerokoolsentenals4281]

Well what is better living in World War II or one or living in 2022

[@nathanseper8738]

I think Brave New World is a more plausible dystopia. Huxley, in the last years of his life, believed we would accept tyranny if the tyranny was made comforting, But I think it would also incorporate some aspects of 1984 to crush dissent.

[@nathanseper8738]

@ㄉㄎㄉ • ꨆꨟꨮꩆ ꨣꨰꨕ China does evil things to political opponents but gives the population enough food and water so they don't end up worrying about it.

[@____________838]

So… The current timeline.

[@adrianaslund8605]

But there must be a profit motive to it. Expect people to be motivated by short term profit over some sort of vast conspiracy. The powerful being motivated by personal greed and shortsightedness is a constant throughout history. Politicians are not generally not as smart and insidious as people make them out to be.

[@____________838]

@@adrianaslund8605 Power is a profit all its own.

[@Zorro9129]

@@adrianaslund8605 Instead of one vast conspiracy, think of it as a bunch of small conspiracies among powerful people who find it productive to work along the others. And if you already have all the money in the world, that matters little compared to power.

[@vikingwalrus2253]

"Both the Brave New World, and [Oceania] have destroyed their pasts, and have very little care for the future. All they have is an eternal present." That line in particular made me think a lot for some reason, but I don't quite understand yet. You've made some very good videos on your channel, but I think this might be one of my favorites yet. Bravo!

[@felipeaugusto2600]

It means that in both cases the past is controlled/gone and so is the future of both societies.

[@OnlyGrafting]

History and literature provide a route to revolutionary or unsatisfactory thinking to the regimes. Thus they do not encourage, and in 1984 actively destroy and rewrite, the reading and understanding of it. Because if you limit the ideas available to a population through the language and literature available you could theoretically work out which ideas cause issue within your nation and which can coexist. In this manner, they don't seek to create more history but instead perpetuate a constant state that feels dynamic to those within but has stagnated in many manners.

[@tomass8425]

The eternal present is stagnation. It's meaningless and empty. A mirage of comfort placed over the hard realities of life.

[@Jose04537]

@@OnlyGrafting China did this, as a form of thought control, they practically erased any trace of any form of revolution or protest from their national hystory books.

[@acctsys]

My interpretation is this. The backdrop is a high baseline of actual stress that's been normalized. The system is setup such that it's too comfortable, given your high baseline of stress, to do otherwise. It's perceived to be too inconvenient to explore alternatives, as although it's being played down, people MUST be forced to avoid consensual sex, but that's hidden from view like 1984. Probably hidden by drugging violators. A system like BNW cannot exist without a baseline of 1984 narcissists to jumpstart, oversee and keep things going when "outliers" arise. Only fools believe the "good intention" of the ruling class. BNW is in a setting where the narcissists got their way, and got content. Also, it's setup in a world where curiosity died. Essentially humanity was lost. Those settings in themselves are unreal. Best believe that if the narcissists see credible threat to their rule or image, they will resort to violence and lies. Of course, the awake may be few, and the sheep many, but they live. In fact, to me, BNW isn't a dystopian future, but a critique of how many people have across generations been exchanging freedom for a sense of security. From the god kings of old, to the religions of statism now, a few have been able to extract from the many with lies first, then violence coming from the believers of the lies.

[@ekos8282]

Orwell though goverment would prevent people from reading books. Huxley thought we would not care to. When was the last time you cared to?

[@cringe7391]

today

[@palatasikuntheyoutubecomme2046]

yesterday

[@Truerussiantigershark]

I mean your analogy half works but in some countries many books are censored like North Korea

[@firemochimc]

It's kinda funny that China has basically taken 1984 on as it's guidebook. Ah yes, the most villanous example of Stalinist Russia that exists. Let's copy it. -Winnie the Pooh

[@captaineflowchapka5535]

they didn't copy it ,it actully clsoer to a brave new world , u are enginnerd to be a part , it just that we lived in a hyper connected world and in the book don't . but the way it clsoer if by it used of manipulation and creating consent enforce by force

[@miguelpadeiro762]

China is a totalitarian state that keeps a close eye on its citizens but its far from 1984. 1. First, Capitalism. China has given up on the revolution. They are a capitalist economy. They are the fat men on black suits and funny top hats. 2. The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) openly aknowledges that they have made mistakes in the past. INGSOC follows the ideology that the party is infallible. For example, China aknowlesges the culture revolution to have been a mistake and the famine from the great leap forward to possibly have been from manmade reasons (we all know it WAS from man made reasons, but hell, it's something!) 3. China is active internationally. Oceania only interacts with the outside world in one manner, just ask good old Jingo: War. China understands the problems coming with isolation and instead prefers to be one of the biggest manufacturer in the world and a big influence on its neighbours. Call everything 1984 and the message of the book will lose its meaning.

[@Zorro9129]

China is purely pragmatist and looks out for its own power. It has much in common with National Socialist Germany.

[@aperson4913]

north korea is much much more comparable to oceania: complete totalitarian state with no true ideology besides one which serves whatever the state wants, the social classes are identical, brutality similar, etc. also not to mention that both states are each day crumbling with their populations getting more and more starved in order to fund the military and police state which keeps the party in power.

[@ihavenojawandimustscream4681]

Actually,if you're not an ethnic or religious minority China is closer to BNW than 1984 The government is surprisingly very light handed and somewhat liberal.Average chinese men are not being repressed as much as they dont care about freedom when they have a better living standard than almost all chinese generation for the last 1000 years in exchange of freedom

[@RainCloud123]

THE UNENLIGHTENED MASSES

[@TrafficPartyHatTest]

THEY CANNOT MAKE THE JUDGEMENT CALL

[@isaiahvaldez3330]

Welp atleast my chocolate rations won't be reduced

[@syldaviaball9545]

Such an interesting video! Thank you very much for at the same time making it fun to watch and useful.

[@wardward2590]

Children of the Omnissiah

[@erickromero5638]

Hahaha i love how you use vic 2 music

[@jezusbloodie]

I read brave new world back in high school because iron maiden made a song after it, with the same title: "Dying swans twisted wings, beauty not needed here Lost my love, lost my life, in this garden of fear I have seen many things, in a lifetime alone Mother love is no more, bring this savage back home Wilderness house of pain, makes no sense of it all Close this mind dull this brain, Messiah before his fall What you see is not real, those who know will not tell All is lost sold your soul to this brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world Dragon kings dying queens, where is salvation now Lost my life lost my dreams, rip the bones from my flesh Silent screams laughing here, dying to tell you the truth You are planned and you are damned in this brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world A brave new world, in a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world In a brave new world, a brave new world Dying swans twisted wings, bring this savage back home

[@jansvoboda4293]

Great as always, but I disagree with berating 1984 in comparison to Brave New World. Each identified different methods of control that humanity oscillates in between. While Brave New World is very specific about the societies ideology, 1984 focuses solely on methods that can be employed by any regime and I can see examples of both around me every day. Because frankly, the ideology is often just for outer party and the plebs. The inner party often do not bother to follow any principles, just borrow them for particular moment of alignment with particular goals in very opportunistic manner. - All I need to see "2 minutes of hate" from 1984, watch naive citizens watch TV news about Russian Invasion of Ukraine. Carefully cherry-picked images and facts to invoke feelings of hate towards Russians or pseudo-patriotic feelings and solidarity towards Ukraine. The Power of Nightmares revealed the general method of bogeyman, but today's reality pushes it to almost 1984 level and it is very effective even on educated, but naive of prejudiced minds. - While we are not near the levels of total elimination of history, we witness its rewriting or pushing it under the rug while of those who would remind it are labeled and ostracized. - In my country the EU stooges already started with anti-constitutional censorship (backdoor via "recommendations" to private domain providers) of certain anti-establishment webs with pretext of "Russian hybrid war" which is in most cases very clearly false pretext. - I probably do not need to even mention Newspeak, Doublethink or Crimethink. Political correctness is just Crimestop. "Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

[@kingoliever1]

Wait how did 1984 collapse? The book sure has no happy ending.

[@justsomeinternetguy560]

I think 1984 is weird. Oceania is the ideology but it’s also the name of a continent. So if you let that sink in, an entire continent takes over the world!

[@theheiroflotharingia8543]

What both books teach is, Britain is uninhabitable the unintended chaos i sow fuels me keep the arguments going til the thames flows red

[@lucjanl1262]

*england

[@Archris17]

And yet it is British ideals, British culture, British laws that shape the entire civilized world and have built the most stable, prosperous, widespread, wealthy, healthy, happy and moral societies that the world has ever known.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

@@Archris17 that is so true. The world would be unimaginably worse were it not for Britain

[@samuellucena3835]

@@Archris17 said the british guy, lol, you are very dumb if you think all of the cultures and ideals of the civilized world are shaped by Britain.

[@dagon99]

@@Archris17 Dude its a joke. I agree with all your points but don't get too bent out of shape assuming you took the joke seriously.

[@PakBallandSami]

"There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it" --Aldous Huxley

[@usaball9190]

I feel like whaever society, if they have the means to do so, went about this plan. It would simultanioulsy increase the stability of the country (no infighting if we are all loyally subservient to a regime) while decreasing innovation (since subservient limits the human ability to freely think, I believe, I could be wrong). If my statement were to be true. That society would be outcompeted if not a decade then a hundred years or so like the Soviet Union's central planning that failed spectacularly. Therefore, we should not be worried about this inevitable future by much since the configuration of said society is untenable by its nature. Thats my 2 cents.

[@cageybee7221]

@@usaball9190 the USSR only failed because there were other countries to out-compete it. if things had gone differently, perhaps the allies were less careful and lost more in europe, and couldn't advance as far before the soviets did, and if the soviet invasion of japan had happened earlier and left them in control of large swaths of coastal china, they might have been in a position to pursue world conquest, with no other nation to oppose them their system could have trudged along for much longer.

[@usaball9190]

@@cageybee7221 Although that might be true that the West would have a harder time competing against the USSR had the East controlled more shares of the world's population and landmass. I think that by nature of a society's superior innovation via its configuration would, in due time, eventually accumulates enough that it can stomped a lesser innovative ones eventually. I mean, didn't the Industrial Revolution + Enlightenment Combo boosts Western innovation to such a degree that it took out most of the world and even have time to fight with other western colonial power as well? Basically, what I am trying to say is that a country that maximizes stability at the cost of innovation (such as BNW) will eventually get overthrowned by those who seeks to speedruns the tech tree.

[@cageybee7221]

@@usaball9190 unless you genetically engineer everyone to be stupid from birth except a few select people you entrust with intelligence, and use drugs and tranquilizers to suppress any challenge to your rule, as the BNW dystopia does.

[@LoPhatKao]

hows your zoloft supply? ;)

[@bobsnow6242]

You completely hit the nail on the head here. "Brave New World" is infinitely more terrifying than "1984" simply because there's some element of hope for free thought in the latter, despite its bleak ending. The fact that the Thought Police are so omnipresent and well-funded strongly suggests that there are a million Winstons out there who still think freely and dream about overthrowing Big Brother some day. Ingsoc has been at it for decades and still seems to be fighting an uphill battle against Thoughtcrime, one that they very well might eventually lose. Beneath the layers of oppression and misery and barbarism, the world of 1984 is still one where people are at their core autonomous beings possessing independent thought and free will. The Party's brutality and extremism is testament to how much it secretly fears the peoole under its boot. The World State in "Brave New World" has no need for Thought Police or for stamping out dissent, because the people it controls might not even meet the definition of "human" by some standards. They're basically organic robots with very little capacity for free will. The government happily allows John the Savage to engage with whoever he likes and try to convince them that his emotional, romantic worldview is correct and he's either ignored or laughed at by nearly everybody besides a few slightly "defective" Alphas like Bernard and Lenina, and even they just end up being at best confused by his humanity than converted to it. The World State has absolutely nothing to fear from any outsider or the odd defective citizen because trying to communicate our idea of humanity to its inhabitants is like trying to teach Shakespeare to a goldfish.

[@eps200]

We live with some of both, we gladly pay good money for the telescreen in our pocket.

[@BobHooker]

For me I would much rather live in the world of Brave New World, getting to make art, read books, have sex, take long vacation and live in total comfort with great drugs than having my testicles smashed in the violent, impoverished, hell state of 1984. Looking at both together I can only say that Brave New World is like a rich person living in Beverly Hills complaining about the meaninglessness of life on Instagram. 1984 is like a Holocaust survivor telling you just how terrible humans can become to each other.

[@ggexgaming6020]

I couldn't say it any better,💯

[@Just_Lars]

I can't really agree with the critic of 1984. Orwell didn't, to my belief, tried to envision a "perfect" regime. More like, a sort-of "realistic" outlook at what the society he lived in could develop into and about the spirit of individual humans. In 1984, mass-surveillance, oppression, the constant state of war, a (somewhat) artificial shortage of goods and ofc the newspeak, all serve to suppress the populace. It doesn't matter what ideology the inner circle ruling adheres to, because most oppressive regimes don't have one either, despite what they say publicly. Orwell boiled all the different regimes of varying ideologies he witnessed down to their very essence. Thats what INGSOC is supposed to be. It could be ANY dictatorship. But Orwells main point isn't as much a warning, as it is trying to give hope. As Winston says, the very fact that someone like O'Brien exists shows, that the party isn't all-powerful. That it can't control everything. There will always be those who ask questions, stretch boundaries and ultimately challenge the narrative, even if it's by "just" wanting to know about the past. Orwell says, that the yearn for freedom can't be killed. Only subdued for a time. And thus, any regime, regardless how opressive, will fall at some point inevitably. Brave New World instead describes a sort-of "Designed Future", where humanity collectively traded their individual freedoms for the "greater good", it became a sort of Hivemind, if you will. Much like ants, every cast member fulfills it function, to enable the whole species to thrive. In this sense, you could even describe the book as a technocratic utopia. Without the pesky concept of individualism, "We" as a species can finally thrive. Freed from aggression, power struggles, and the fact that actions that benefit the most people in the best way are often the ones opposed the most. People don't like to give up own privileges for the benefit of others. But this also means, that in such a society, there is no coming back beyond a certain point. You will almost never be able to get rid completely of "foul apples". But if 99.9% are okay with how things are, the remaining 0.1 can kick and scream and beg as much as they want, they can't change the state of the society anymore. Thus, there is no need for suppression, they simply get cast out of society. And since they can't reproduce, there is no risk of just letting them go. In this sense, BNW is far bleaker if you look behind the fassade. There is literally no hope left for things to change, in contrast to 184 that, as you mentioned, leaves a lot of sparks of hope despite its bleak ending.

[@hailgiratinathetruegod7564]

These 2 books perfectly discribe how I feel when the police tells me. That I am not allowed to shit in public parks.

[@ziggytheassassin5835]

Literally 1984

[@Deliverygrot]

Based

[@紫の羊-c3g]

@@ziggytheassassin5835 Literally Brave New World

[@thefool1086]

funnyvery hahha funnyma nhaha me laughfunny man

[@themaxterz0169]

what about private parks tho

[@zyanego3170]

I am pretty sure that George Orwell intended to write 1984 as a critque of Totalitarianism in general.

[@accountreality1988]

and there has be far more regimes that have mimic aspect of 1984 then brave new world. in fact brave new world is hard to even call a dystopia.

[@krosskreut3463]

@@accountreality1988 thats what i have catch, maybe correct, maybe not BNW as far i have seen (i will read it) shows how the people can be controlled through satisfaction, Why would you rebeld against a "perfect" system? Why you want freedom on reality? why dont you feel completed?, the human on there have no real think, just live, they dont do nothing apart of continue the process, to points it shouldnt be human and more of cattle, just why live or dont in a heaven like place 1984 (other i have to read) is the maximun totalitarism, now it doesnt matter ideology, what matter is control, opresive one, where they Force you to think and act as they require, anyone who acts against even in the lightest way will be punish, its fear , its the lies, its not having a way to think without thinking what is good or bad for me or the state and not be killed on that, why the hell would you rebel if they can find you are already forced to express it via double think and expouse yourself, or new speak and tell it youself , just why think if that is bad or will bring bad things both look just 2 ways of how the human, how we can be controled with or without known, one should be a dream, one should be a nightmare, and both have been applied , is , or will be applied in some way, both show the maximun of one way imaginable , the difference to reality is or should be, is how much is applied to us in the past, present , and future, look at both, and stop all before things go ... horribly bad

[@joaogarcia6170]

Yeah, although orwell called himself a socialist i think he was more of a left wing libertarian, he didn't like authoritarianism

[@zyanego3170]

@@joaogarcia6170 He considered himself a Democratic Socialist and once he even called himself an Anarcho-Tory

[@elevatedmeance6807]

@@accountreality1988 that's because 1984 is the old way of controlling people, using pain and wiping pleasure from the human mind. BBW is where the industrial societies dictators or not are headed, rather than using pain, they use pleasure to ease any sort of emotion from your mind. BNW uses consumerism to bring tyranny while 1984 uses pain, but the brings up alot to be desired like freedom. In BBW they only desire you have is one you already have. And you can keep getting more and more of it, so why revolt? you have everything to lose.

[@seavanmin]

North Korea - 1984 South Korea - Brave New World

[@Lylactal]

Wrong. North Korea - 1984 South Korea - Cyberpunk 2077

[@victuz]

@@Lylactal Do you think Cyberpunk is worse than Brave New World?

[@Lylactal]

@@victuz Yes objectively

[@BobHooker]

If only the hot women in South Korea had Brave New World's sexual ehtics!

[@plugshirt1762]

⁠@@Lylactalbrave new world is as bad as it gets objectively. You lose even the ability to fight against it. Not to mention South Korea isn’t remotely at a cyberpunk level

[@aleksejdjurdjevic8467]

It is an interesting choice that the savage was represented as the USA ball while the controller was the UK ball. I can't imagine this was without intent to convey meaning.

[@reesehendricksen1871]

Well the savage was from a America, specifically a Navajo reservation, so yeah.

[@aleksejdjurdjevic8467]

@@reesehendricksen1871 Thanks for the clarification , I didn't know that.

[@ducky7724]

@@reesehendricksen1871 And pretty much the rest of the book takes place in London, so there's not really any other countryballs to use.

[@kosefix]

@@ducky7724 They've got balls to draw Welsh Countryballs

[@alexanderi1183]

@@reesehendricksen1871 he didn't look native to me.

[@MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI-1]

“We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn't, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares. But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another - slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think. What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” Neil Postman: excerpt from “Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

The two novels are quite polar opposites to be honest, brave new world is a society of confort and pleasure on demand. 1984 is a society where the notion of plessure has been erased from the human psyche

[@starmaker75]

I think as an American I find brave new world more pausiable and more unsettling. Brave new world there no grand oppression or big brother sending to room 101, it just being getting comfortable numb and given how internet and drug crisis is going, we already seen stuff like brave new world

[@Alfredo12]

Analyzing today's world, it seems that Huxley's book is the most likely for our future.

[@birgaripadam7112]

So that's why brave new world is a dystopia, now I get it thanks friend

[@factsmachine9905]

I thought this was a comment but it was more like an essay

[@gabrielmontenegro9476]

Fun fact about 1984: It's NOT BANNED in mainland China, oddly enough.

[@accountreality1988]

it is not very well known. if the higher ups in the ccp party do know about it it would be banned outright and used as an instruction manual asap.

[@communistcowboy]

So its banned in Hainan? "Communist" China has some pretty big islands

[@toastmc4823]

@@accountreality1988 They definitely know about it. It's to create the illusion that there is no internet censorship.

[@Jose04537]

@@toastmc4823 Exactly, not "officially" banned but its a Taboo suggest and very difficult to obtain.

[@ooffilipinopatriot7605]

they should take an idea from a brave new world and maybe manipulate everyone in the shadows through hedonistic wants.

[@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding]

The fact both take place in britain means we should take care of the island before it becomes a distopia.

[@country_flyboy]

I thought Britain was already a dystopia? I mean, what else would cause the English to be so insufferably miserable?

[@SpicyCheeseAltHistory]

@@country_flyboythe whether

[@royalistproductions]

No joke.

[@caringheart34]

It's not only that, take Children of Men too

[@monkey39128]

@@country_flyboy We keep losing at football. Football ⚽😂

[@baronofbahlingen9662]

1984 is more interesting through ideas, but I think BNW is more relevant and likely seeing how things are going. Edit: everyone saying our society is more like 1984, it’s really lazy played out social commentary and Orwell would not be happy with you.

[@marcanton5357]

Keeping the boot on the face of humanity forever is quite a primordial unconscious desire that invokes a demiurge-like existence. Manipulating the psyche to achieve "happiness", or at least endless distractions seems more of a devilish thing to do. I think 1984 is thus more radical to our sensibilities, while Brave New World is more understandable.

[@pascalausensi9592]

@@marcanton5357 One thing that's worth remembering is that we see the world of 1984 from the eyes of a member of the professional middle class. The 'proles' are kept content through endless distractions in both works (the lottery, pornography, and propaganda in general being INGSOC's weapons of choice).

[@jansvoboda4293]

Yet I see methods from 1984 used by media and governments every day.

[@televized1781]

@@jansvoboda4293 Except it's not governments of the world that are actually running thing. It's closer to BNW because it's mega corporations that running things

[@marcanton5357]

@@pascalausensi9592 The boot on the face is not a conclusion, it's an admission of the one representing the party in the story though. I also disagree with the draining of resources of the regime of Oceania. It's kind of implied they are intentionally reducing them to achieve that stasis, that forever, same way they are reducing vocabulary. It both quacks and walks like a duck.

[@Seymorebuttz]

It honestly feels like Huxley accidentally predicted the future, many aspects of the modern world align with Brave New World if you examine it

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

It wasn't an accident. He looked at real trends and aspirations of intellectuals from his time, as well as what human weaknesses were when it came to being willing to reject things of spiritual nature in exchange for material comfort and constant dopamine rushes.

[@jamesxu9258]

@QuantumMeme Brave new world hasn’t happened yet,but 1984 has already happened,in Stalin USSR and Maoist China,so I think 1984 is better because the prediction of Orwell is already true,Huxley is still yet to come.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

@QuantumMeme see ruzzia, and tell me in what form does it resemble Brave New World.

[@winsonzhu4427]

@@jamesxu9258 1984 has not happened yet quite frankly. Let's take your examples and I'll provide examples from those places where it's clear 1984 could never really happened, and where the argument for the system in Brave New World by a person who came before said system within the story applies. Let's start with Stalin's USSR - for all the faults of the USSR and Stalin, disagreement even among Stalin's inner circle was tolerated - Molotov, notably, disagreed with how hard the general populace was to work during rapid industrialization, according to the person who interviewed him to write "Molotov Remembers", saying that he could hardly to ask of such from even his near and dear ones, to say less of a whole country. Additionally, Tzarist Russia was in many ways closer to 1984 than the USSR, considering the ability for "unskilled" workers to speak out together against their managers did exist in the USSR, but not Tzarist Russia - where even after the abolition of serfdom, life for the peasantry and later on factory workers was generally even worse than those of the Gilded Age of monopolies in the US. There was also generally more hope and optimism through these improvements that didn't exist for the menial laborers in either Tzarist Russia or 1984. In Mao's China, he himself stepped down after the famine, and only returned to power following the death of Zhou Enlai - his appointed successor, who imo in modern China is a far more widely liked and less controversial figure than Mao. During the Cultural Revolution, the Red Guards came into conflict with factory workers in an event where Mao supported the workers over the Red Guards and led the the disbanding of said Red Guards. There's also the Iron Rice Bowl, the codification of rights for people (peasants were basically beneath notice in Imperial times), and the frankly meteoric rise in life expectancy and literacy within China that occurred between the declaration of the People's Republic and Mao's death. (Life expectancy went from under 40 years to almost 70, 10-20% literacy rate to almost 70%) Socialist countries' education drives and redistribution efforts run directly counter to what Ingsoc in 1984 did. Note that Orwell never stepped foot into the USSR, and only fought with the anarchists in the Spanish Civil war, who frankly didn't like him and thought someone like him belonged to the other side. There's also his chauvinism in "Shooting an Elephant" - detailing what he thought of the people in the colonies during his time as a colonial officer, even as he was personally against empire. To feel victimized as a colonial officer by the people you're oppressing even as you wish for their freedom is pure doublethink, which imo plays a part in how he's able to go to great lengths to demonize an allied place he's never been to in the safety of his home country while claiming to be a brave ally of freedom and justice, or report people to the British intelligence for political opinions and homosexuality while writing about the Ministries in 1984. But enough ragging on 1984 and Orwell. Brave New World actually presents an in - universe argument for the system by a person who witnessed the world before, that now the people are content, and life is stable. It is run by someone who does not believe he has created a dystopia, and that arguments in that vein are part of individual selfishness for something grand, while stable happiness just... isn't. There's also many distorted mirrors to the real world, such as in technological development. Many inventions don't go through to the public in BNW due to concerns about how too much additional free time for the citizens could lead to instability, echoing how technological progress is held back irl because businesses don't want to disturb the mass consumption cycle for the sake of profit. It also shows that the "bread and circuses" way of appeasing the masses *works*, and has worked. Every person on the planet who's a wage worker with miniscule functional political autonomy and gets through the day via some combo of the attitude they were taught growing up and entertainment via media and drugs lives a very similar life to that of a worker in Brave New World.

[@jamesxu9258]

@@winsonzhu4427 First I’m Chinese so I will not go into the USSR,secondly,Maoist China is much worse than Soviet Russia.The 1960s are terrible to say the least.I have relatives who staved to death because of bad policy,also,he stepped down in 1959,giving power to Liu shaoqi,who he will later torture to death,his death will just be one of the deaths in the crackdown of the 60s.So you messed up your research,also Mao never meant for Zhou to be successor,Zhou is a calculating man and one of Mao’s worst fears are Zhou outliving him,when it became clear that Zhou received cancer,Mao refused to give him advanced treatment.Also,living standards under Mao is horrible,in 1960,the population reduced by 10000000,and that was in a time when people have 7 children in their house.About literacy rates,the stats are clearly fake.In the cultural revolution,gaocao was abolished,most children were denied advanced learning,and at the same time,starving,my grandparents have PTSD over this.Many people who could have became intellectuals are now just old men just able to read.And about the big brains of the time,many writers were either forced to commit suicide (like Laoshe) or are denounced as traitors of the revolution,just like in 1984.Many women were forced to be married of to peasants of party members,also 1984.My conclusion,to think that Mao was a leader that improved people’s living standards and literacy rates are in one word,stupid.My mother will say all the time time Maoist China is as bad as INGSOC Interesting note :Did you know that in the 60s people dared not raise their voice when talking to people ,1984 vibes maybe 🤔

[@truwu8177]

Reddit is all the evidence I need that the world would willingly go the way of "A Brave New World"

[@DioTheGreatOne]

Reddit and Twitter, the world's official NPC factories.

[@majorkalashinikov1277]

Reddit users would be the first ones in the line for a Ingsoc meet & greet

[@luigimrlgaming9484]

@@majorkalashinikov1277They would do both

[@42carlos]

Seriously, those people value comfort over anything else. It's sad. I can't imagine living like one of them.

[@luigimrlgaming9484]

@@42carlos Amen

[@thegeneraljohn2895]

Orwell tells us to fear the danger in things we abhor. Huxley tells us to fear the danger in the things we love.

[@42carlos]

Based

[@postas4383]

I edged to your pfp

[@MickyJ]

This man stole GDE (Famous hoi4 romantic novel) from me. He is a thief and a bad one at that since I have exposed him. (((TheGeneralJohn))), you will admit your wrongdoings or else, I will sue you, and your probably fake girlfriend for all that you are worth and then some.

[@TheEpikalREKT]

Ab hor hor hor hor hor

[@williamfrancis5367]

Given Orwell's previous work (particularly animal farm), I think it's quite apparent the ideology of INGSOC (newspeak for English Socialism) is supposed to be a Stalinism as envisioned by a socialist; a corrupted form of the ideology to purports to uphold that abandons everything good about the movement for the sake of a powerful few (indeed a supposedly socialist society having a rigid class structure is blatantly a riff on the soviet class system and the Theory and Practice of Oligarchical collectivism's description of the inner party eerily mirrors the Stalin's Nomenklatura): "The so-called ‘abolition of private property’ which took place in the middle years of the century meant, in effect, the concentration of property in far fewer hands than before: but with this difference, that the new owners were a group instead of a mass of individuals. Individually, no member of the Party owns anything, except petty personal belongings. Collectively, the Party owns everything in Oceania, because it controls everything, and disposes of the products as it thinks fit." Viewing 1984 as a riff on Stalinism makes a fair bit of sense given when it was written; in the aftermath of the second world war, Stalin consolidating power over eastern and central Europe, and a cold war looming if not already happening. If there is one bit from 1984 that shows this was very much a book of its time its this bit from Goldstein's book, which reads a lot like how Fabian socialists imagined a gradualist approach to their ideology would look like ; "If leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away." In a sense, something like the mass prosperity of the post-war decades should have caused the collapse of hierarchy and any ruling group and presumably establishing Orwell's idea of what good socialism would be. The western world already lives in such a society by the standards of the early 20th century, yet such as socialism is not established anywhere in it. Indeed, the rise of Thatcherism in the real 1984 would have been the last thing Orwell could have contemplated!

[@hiredmurderer6228]

Orwell was communist and as well (as any sane communist) he hated Stalin; this book was published in 1984,but it is about the life in the USSR from Stalin's era

[@williamfrancis5367]

@@hiredmurderer6228. Orwell was a Socialist (he said as much repeatedly in his work), though I can see why used be confused as Stalin did run the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, but there is a distinct difference.

[@de-nis4703]

@@hiredmurderer6228 He never was communist, as other person wrote, he was socialist. He always was anti-imperilist, anti-totalitarist. He hated USSR which can be clearly seen in "Animal farm" which literally describes USSR and how from socialist ideas it became imperialistic like Russian empire was. Also 1984 was published in 1949

[@hiredmurderer6228]

@@de-nis4703 It has sense now considering it. Thanks for the correction.

[@semi-useful5178]

@@hiredmurderer6228 Orwell was an anarcho-socialist

[@SleepySheepys2]

I don’t doubt your analysis of BNW, it is a fascinating book and very relevant to the modern world but I have to really disagree with the take on 1984. It’s not supposed to be a mix of communism and fascism or just undefined for the sake of reader self inserts; Orwell meant to highlight the shared tyranny and totalitarianism he saw in both ideologies that were supposed to be so different and how they both led to misery. People misusing today to further their agendas is a unfortunate side effect of a party that only concerns itself with power. 1984 also goes much more in depth to other facets of population control such as sex and reproduction as well as the mere concept of bandwagoning, that people submit to the state to up their reputation as everyone else is doing it too, and of course suppressing memories as people accept the Party’s rule as the norm, the way things have always been. BNW is a fascinating story that is more applicable to the world we live in than 1984, but the latter shouldn’t be dismissed so easily.

[@hiredmurderer6228]

Bro you got it rlly bad Orwell criticizes totalitarism from all wings,he was a communist but (as any sane communist) he hated Stalin for obvious reasons. I think more like YOU are misusing this for the sake of your dying anticommunist arguments

[@hectormonforttorres7734]

Facts

[@rafaelglopezroman1110]

Yeah his claim of fascism and communism been opposite, doesn't changes the fact that they both lead to the same results. With the party granting itself full power through a military police state and media manipulation.

[@Jaco059]

@@rafaelglopezroman1110 I was going to say facism and communism are super close.

[@atticratz6128]

I think in the West we do not want to acknowledge the similarities in Hitler and Stalin’s regimes because we could not take the guilt. As a culture America often treats WWII as the prime example of a war of good against evil (disregarding that we only entered the war when attacked by Japan, and that Japan, not Germany, was culturally seen as our main foe at the time). What would it say about us that we take pride in defeating an evil like Hitler but left Stalin to kill in his new empire? I do not say this to condemn the Allies’ decision. I certainly understand the desire for peace. But how different was Stalin’s regime from Hitler’s? Did Stalin desire peace at the onset of WWII? Was the difference that instead of tyrannizing one race and the disabled, he tyrannized many?

[@ZephLodwick]

'Brave New World' and 'The Giver' are my two favourite dystopian novels, because they both show trends in modern society.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

Unless you live near Russia where 1984 goes strong.

[@Spongebongvapepants]

@@mikhaelgribkov4117 *china

[@endofsight9841]

Oryx and Crake is another dystopian novel that shows where we are potentially headed as well.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

@@Spongebongvapepants don't know about Chinese, don't live close to them.

[@joelhernstrom6060]

@@endofsight9841 oh fuck man that threw me back to high school english class

[@thelordofforeheads2839]

INGSOC in 1984 is meant to be the purest form of totalitarianism, and any other belief held by the party is a contradiction (double think). The best example of double think is that the book was criticized in the US for being pro-communist, and banned in the USSR for being anti-communist. Orwell was strongly against both fascism and communism, and took the unifying factor of authoritarianism and created the most totalitarian regime possible. The scariest part of the book is that every tool and idea used by the party to control its citizens has been used by a government at some point, and a large amount of them are still used by governments today. It’s also interesting to see theories stem from the fact that every single piece of information the protagonist receives, apart from the information that Oceania eventually fell, has come from INGSOC. You can’t be certain if the resistance, big brother, or even if the world outside of England is as described. It’s definitely my favourite dystopia as it isn’t far-fetched, it’s happened before, and it can happen again.

[@quickstergamestutorialsgam3899]

I agree with everything you said, but what do you mean by that it was banned in the US for being pro-communist? My dad in the 70s and 80s was reading 1984 in high school for a reading project. Maybe it was banned in a certain city/state but it was definitely not banned in the whole country like the Soviet Union did.

[@thelordofforeheads2839]

@@quickstergamestutorialsgam3899 Sorry, I got that one wrong. It was "challenged" in Jackson County, Florida for being pro-communism. It's also currently banned in China.

[@quickstergamestutorialsgam3899]

@@thelordofforeheads2839 It's alright, I can also 100% see 1984 being banned in China too lol.

[@aarothewanderer5549]

George Orwell was socialist who fought in Spanish civil war.

[@thelordofforeheads2839]

@@aarothewanderer5549 he fought for the anarcho-syndicalists in Catalonia. He thought that the Communists were far too close to what they were fighting against due to their Authoritarianism.

[@Rob-cw5mg]

While I appreciate the analysis of BNW tyranny through comfort and the manufactured loss of free will I don't appreciate the 1984 bashing. Double think and new speak are just as real today as the drugs of brave new world and George Orwell's Conclusion of how the inner party has harnessed the cyclical history of revolution is flatly correct and observably true today. Anyone who wants a vision of the future should read both.

[@reesehendricksen1871]

Except couldn’t dissenters just use double think against the state? I never cared for the book acting like the torture methods were perfect, a great example counter to it is Man’s Search For Meaning.

[@Rob-cw5mg]

@@reesehendricksen1871 as stated in the book, opposition to the party is so distant from common peoples minds that it is functionally impossible, the thought police catch them if their kids don't rat them out first. and soon it will be theoretically impossible when newspeak removes any language that could refer to dissent, hence one of the first words dropped from english being "revolution"

[@reesehendricksen1871]

@@Rob-cw5mg just because we don’t have name to a disease doesn’t mean it won’t spread.

[@Rob-cw5mg]

@@reesehendricksen1871 humans may have the capacity to create new names for ideas. But if they're minds are overwrought from a young age and people are distracted with bread circus like the lottery in the book it can be prevented. Language manipulation is not all powerful but it's hard to talk about organizing a resistance when you don't even know what that is

[@Supreme_Goldfish]

@@reesehendricksen1871 In the case of 1984, the "disease" is language itself. "We want words to come from the throat, not from the mind." - Ministry of Truth

[@Californianbychoice]

My main crituque of BNW vs 1984 is that all totalitarian governments we have seen so far resemble 1984 more than BNW, despite preferring (by Lenin's own admission, for example) that they are trying to build something resembling BNW. I would say that in the Fatal Conceit Hayek shows why this is happening: central planning is an impossible task, so everyone starts out hoping for a BNW and ending up in Oceania

[@ahegaomemnon2059]

We are all trying BNW, when someone does 1984 it is frightening and makes us uncomfortable

[@Californianbychoice]

@@ahegaomemnon2059 bc 1984 represents a failure which all BNWs are doomed for. Heck, 1984 is not worse case scenario from the regime's PoV. Worst case scenario is losing control of the situation like the USSR between 1953-1992

[@Supreme_Goldfish]

In reality, we would probably get a worse combination of both books. The 1984 style of brutality is very common throughout history, as sadly, humans are very good at finding ways to be terrible to each other. BNW is actually interesting in the sense that it's functional, but that's because it's a World State with no competition with other societies. If we're gonna see anything, I'd bet on Mega-Corp dystopias taking the worst of both. If anything was gonna bring about the end of the world, it's billionaires thirst for power and conquest. Profit incentives have never been higher.

[@aldgate]

@@Supreme_Goldfish What do you mean "If we're gonna see anything"? We already have 1984 in the form of north korea

[@boivin5163]

@@Supreme_Goldfish and even as a very small nation, North Korea is still living off borrowed time,

[@kavky]

"Everyone is becoming richer, happier, and freer" Man I wish I still had this optimistic view of the world.

[@godofzombi]

1984: "We shall abolish the orgasm." Brave new world: "Orgy-Porgy!"

[@TrizzyD14]

Big brother needs to watch you 🙏

[@nightspeakerthefallenwing3451]

Ah yes, I saw Vendetta yesterday so this is a perfect time to re-read on dystopian history

[@TJ-ij2rd]

1984 relates to the past regimes of '30s-'40s such as nazis + communist Whilst BNW we can relate more since our modern society is very similar to it

[@soha_an]

I mean it was made in 1949

[@TJ-ij2rd]

Orwell did make based off his experience in the Spanish Civil War seeing both communists and fascists at work

[@PennTankerGuy]

His whole point was to critique the "INGSOC is a mix of Communism and Fascism" that people say it is. Ezekiel goes out of his way to say that it *is* a representation of authoritarianism as a whole, but that it's really vague in its actual ideology.

[@baffledwaffle6319]

I like the aproach you take with videos. They give me a new perspective on everything

[@seatspud]

Eighty-Four's themes may seem the most prevalent due to pop culture, but you can't say Brave New World's are downplayed by any means, they're just more subtle. "I don't want my pain taken away. I NEED my pain." Capt. James T. Kirk.

[@redline841]

BNW doesn't have the scary symbols and shit to make the chosen few who run the media care about it. 😊

[@lbgamer6166]

I NEED pain to be strong.

[@BobHooker]

I don't think it is more subtle, it just gives a point of view we are less eager to jump on.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

I would really love Ezekiel’s take on Harrison Bergeron, even though its a short story with not a ton of detail i feel like he’d do a really good job in analyzing it.

[@SleepySheepy99]

You should do a video on "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin which is one of the much overlooked inspirations for both books

[@Alfredo12]

One State makes Oceania as soft in comparison, not even the inhabitants of One State have names, only numbers

[@manifesttruth7645]

I think the point is trying to prevent both. We should not want Brave New World or 1984. Everyone in the comment section tries to talk about which one is more relevant but I don’t hear hardly anyone trying to say anything about it being bad or trying to prevent it. I don’t want Brave New World or 1984.

[@jds1275]

I never once thought living in brave new world was desirable. Life requires struggle and pain to feel fulfilled. Without it, there is no meaning, you just exist. Though I do know many people who could easily fall into the trap and that makes the whole concept of that dystopia terrifying. 1984 is good, and the reason it stays in the cultural zeitgeist is it has a few themes that stick easily in the mind. Terms such as "big brother" are memorable. I think a real world dystopia would have aspects of both. If you look at how the US intelligence agencies are developing and the government having no qualms and very little pushback on spying on everyone, you can see just one of the tactics of big brother being brought into existence.

[@thekaiser3815]

That is why I think a brave new world style society our over time evolve into a 1984 state, it all about power.

[@xraymasher3768]

seriously? what does being fulfilled have to do with happiness? happiness is happiness, there is no bigger meaning to it. if i went into the street and tortured people to give their lives fulfilment I would be called a monster but apparently to you its okay to torture people?

[@jds1275]

@@xraymasher3768 You have a strange way of reading that. Pain and struggle doesn't mean torture. Happiness is pointless if you don't have a fulfilling life. Fulfillment only comes from overcoming difficult problems. Anything else is empty and pointless.

[@xraymasher3768]

@@jds1275 Happiness does not require meaning or fulfilment, happiness is meaning itself. The caste system is designed for comfort and each caste are conditioned and scientifically designed for perfection, so it would make sense to me that they would be designed to feel fulfilment and comfort in the role, regardless if they don't overcome any difficult challenges. The society of BNW has it down to a science.

[@SuperBrock52]

I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved. Praise the Omnissiah!

[@PakBallandSami]

imo it is always intere4sting and good to compare two literature works this is why i really enjoy you guys video about book comparisons it like a criticises of these works it given us the idea what is really good and bad about these book they we read plus love your take on them

[@hello-gx6oi]

You're now covering literature? Nice I hope to see more

[@Solon1581]

He's been doing it for quite a while by now.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

8:50 "you want to live in it" Here is the catch... everybody thinks they are going to live in it as Alphas Tell them there is a 80% chance they will be Beta or lower... and they will say "hell no"

[@romanow2951]

I believe that the society in "brave new world" is like a spire made out of glass. Sure it is beutiful and luxurious but one crack and it can`t fix itself it is not able to sustain a flaw in the system. However our current society is more like a brick house, it was never built perfectly and therefor runs perfectly in imperfection. if something breaks it can and will eventually be replaced, rebuild or another solution will be found.(Sorry for any mistakes, english is not my first language)

[@danolix]

This is the thing about totalitarianism and dystopias, one small thing goes wrong and the whole society suffers or collapses

[@shorewall]

Yeah, life isn't perfect, humanity isn't perfect, so we cannot have a perfect system, because it couldn't mesh with the imperfections. We gotta adapt, improvise, overcome. :D

[@loafofbrad]

Reminds me of a line that I've read from somewhere: "George Orwell feared for the destruction of humanity caused by the things we fear, but Aldous Huxley feared for the destruction of humanity caused by the things we love." my ick ock of a brain can't transcribe the exact line but you get the point Edit: it was from "Amusing ourselves to death" by Neil Postman, check the shit out, it's a great book

[@ueIl]

Brave New World is basically like that one episode in the Amazing World of Gumball where Darwin becomes a dictator

[@MedsieLovr]

Lol

[@folkeklarstrom3668]

Damn i remember that episode. The Amazing World of Gumball is one of the best things to have ever been created for entertainment!

[@Cappuccino_Rabbit]

The "good" dictator

[@royalistproductions]

Tbh, I think the controller actually cares about the people who live inside, even if it may not be the most humane thing.

[@drweednose9373]

I was just done reading with 1984 last week actually, it was very interesting read, looks like BNW is next on my reading list after watching this video

[@akramgimmini8165]

1984 is a Must Read in my Opinion Really makes you Think about a lot

[@onion599]

A *must* read? Literally 1984.

[@Robbie-pc1dl]

@@onion599 yeah it sounds better than BNW

[@cek0792]

@@Robbie-pc1dl it could be imagined easier, some methods of suppression in the book just sounds like things that almost happened or has happened. Quite scary actually.

[@minutemanchan7232]

This is NOT the Bible You promised a Bible video

[@ictoan5966]

Literally 1984

[@captaineflowchapka5535]

did he promise this video would be the bible one ?

[@aceofspadesguy4913]

“You’ll own nothing, and you’ll be happy.”

[@smorcrux426]

I didn't read 1984, but I did read brave new world, and I think it's more comparable to the Truman show than 1984, because they both have their main conflict be around choosing between a prosperous but "fake" society or a miserable but "real" society, and while the Truman show is a very good movie and brave new world is a very good book the one thing I disliked about both of them is how they both clearly want the better choice to be the "real" world, since that's the more noble option, and even if that might be the case they both have some sort of loophole in them that make it so that there isn't even much debate and the real option the objectively better one. This is much clearer in the Turman show than it is the brave new world (which is why I think brave new world is better), but is still existant in both: in the Truman show Truman is given a choice between life in the series which is in a few ways simply more inconvenient than real life, and is just an average suburban generic life that's slightly worse than reality plus knowing that his entire life is fake, and being in the real world a superstar celebrity in a life that isn't fake, and while in brave new world does this to a much smaller extent, still it is shown in almost the entire first half of the book how Bernard Marx suffers due to the new world and not being able to do stuff like love and not fitting into his predescribed role, and also the fact that the savage is generally harassed by society to the point he commits suicide, and so both of these stories use these loopholes to just sort of go around the main philosophical point, because there isn't a very clear answer to it. An example of a story that doesn't cheat with this is the pleasure cube, where you can pick whether or not to plug into some machine that depending on what version of the story either regulates the levels of all these hormones and drugs in your brain in order for you to just have a better life, or just is a sort of simulation of a better life, and the question is if you would plug into one of those machines, and most points against plugging in really aren't very convincing, and I'm personally not at all sure if I'd plug in or not.

[@shupak2004]

i disagree with the truman show point i feel like being a celebrity to that degree would be really terrible for him everybody around him knows everything about him and he couldn't develop normal relationships, how could he know if people around him are pretending ? and while boring he would know he is safe in the fake world but in the real world, which he never experienced, there is no such guarantee.

[@boivin5163]

I would recommend reading Fahrenheit 451 at some point, I think it aged pretty well with its messing on how people get sad and easy to manipulate if they don't ask questions.

[@trla6505]

I really like it, specially when they discuse why they mourn. She made nothing,she touch no onw

[@danielsurvivor1372]

I think they're some critiques of BNW, for example if technology is so advanced then why do they even have lower caste of humans? Just replace them with robots while higher caste is become the norm for all engineered humans. Seems to make more sense to just replace lower caste with robots, to avoid occasional savage uprising

[@F1areon]

Probably bc if they DIDN'T have a lower caste of humans, the higher caste would get bored and throw fits bc they have no human subordinates to boss around.

[@edim108]

As awful as Oceania is, there is something about Brave New World that fundamentally doesn't sit well with me. I'm an Atheist and I do believe science is our way to "salvation" so to say, but what I believe most strongly in is giving people a choice. People living in that "perfect society" never had any. Their right to choose if they want that comfort or not was taken away from them before they were even born. What value does these people's compliance and happiness have if they were never allowed to experience the discomfort, the sickness, the pain both physical and emotional, the struggle and the feeling of helplessness. They're little more than drones. Machines of flesh programmed to feel and think and be a certain way, not being that way of their own accord. What value does being virtuous have if there is no sin? Can someone be truly good if they know no evil? Can they be truly kind if they didn't know anything but?

[@FirstnameLastname-yk2js]

This is one reason I believe in God. God is the objective truth therefore I don't have to reason what value virtue has without sin because virtue is good within itself. To choose to do good for goodness sake. But one can not choose to do good if they haven't a choice. It is easy for me to point at BNW (the society not the book) and say why its bad. Its because it unholy, unnatural and illiberal. Therefore it is an abomination and disgusting.

[@Caligulashorse1453]

@@FirstnameLastname-yk2js I think one thing the book points out in my opinion is how humans have tried to make themselves god and we were never meant to be god Morals came from God not mankind

[@NoThisIsNotMe.]

In my opinion: Brave New World teaches us, this may become future, what can we do to make it better than in the book? 1984 teaches this may become the future, how do we avoid it?

[@biggestboofer]

Thank you! I've been saying Brave New World is so much more deep. The choice between comfort at the expense of seeming life itself. Or to have pain and suffering at the expense of perfect comfort.

[@ForkLefts]

Hehe funny book about drugs hehe

[@randomdude64yt]

Great choice to play "collective consciousness" at the end

[@lljkgktudjlrsmygilug]

Standard choice for any BNW video nowadays.

[@dannydacheedo1592]

If you give up your liberty: Brave New World is the future you are promised. 1984 is the future you'll get.

[@Servo_M]

You have a good point there.

[@TommyTipex]

Well put and exactly right, there will be no benevolent transhumanist dictator, just the stomping of the boot. History makes that very clear.

[@Zorro9129]

The world we live in is a combination of 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451

[@endofsight9841]

Oryx and Crake is also one that we are heading towards as well.

[@diegohenriquez6138]

I remember that in school i had my own headcanon about 1984, What if Operation unthinkable were engaged? This world was the result. Because my younger self was always searching for a reason of why the world ended in such a state, i wrote a whole "what if" sort of prequel of 1984 as part of an evaluation in class, explaning how the world adaptated after "The Fall" of the old world , my younger self was like "EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE". The evaluation was canceled due to a scandal, just like the rest of the school year, what a time.

[@tonylu2471]

Quite frankly I think our future will be a mix of brave new world and 1984 with a bit of Fahrenheit 451 mixed in.

[@lorefox201]

there's one problem with the vision of Brave New World, an issue that perhaps we can forgive Huixley for overlooking given the times he was in, but an issue nonetheless. The elite kind of elite that would try to implement the brave new world and is trying now, is made of complete spiritual, mental and physical mediocrities, whose plan will constantly inevitably fail. The fact itself of putting Comfort over Truth outs them as such, nobody becomes truly great without facing his vices, without facing the lures of comfort and going outside his comfort zone. Such an utopia is good and reasonable for trust fund babies and tenured intellectuals to plan for, but it's beyond their grasp; they will never realize it, and with each failure they will try more and more to force the result through 1984's methods, until they finally FINALLY overstep. We're almost there.

[@stephennootens916]

When you think about his whole idea of it flawed. Those on the top always look down at those on the bottom and only show real interested in their own massive egos and desires. There is also the flaw science while yes 1984 has the two way television Brave New World works on a flaw understanding on how genetics works as well as drugs. The closest drugs in the real world would be anti depressants and they have major side effects including loss of sex drive and suicidal behavior.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

Issue with these topics is that it brings out the crazies who think there is worldwide conspiracy to achieve such a thing, ignoring how utterly insane that line of thought is.

[@michaelbeardsley776]

A third comparison with Anthem would be interesting.

[@atticusmartin5447]

Don't forget WE

[@atticusmartin5447]

@saw 17 I heard it was based on book at one point but, I don't think it is, unless the screen play was based on the story, but idk

[@uberbeeg]

Fascism and Communism are different except for one fundamental. That is both require force and oppression to impose their extremist views. In that regard, fascism and communism are identical. This is the point I think Orwell was alluding too. The ideology is irrelevant in Orwell's 1984. It's about the oppression and it's use to ensure the elites dictatorship's survival.

[@williewilson2250]

The people he was referring to about powerful leaders supporting the idea of brave new world are the ones in the World Economic Forum, the ones who have a literal quote from their own mouths: "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"

[@turgidbanana]

You will own nothing and be happy

[@Karts753]

2:22 ...did you get this from some kind of comment of Orwell about his work? Cause I don't remember the book containing any implications that Oceania and the greater world order was gonna collapse in the near future.

[@volpilh]

I've always found 1984 rather uninteresting. BNW, I find terrifying, and oddly sad.

[@ProudChristianMemer]

Brave new world to me sounds more of a utopia to me.

[@danielhodson6411]

At 12:35 I had an aneurysm because I literally had just started humming that exact song from metal gear rising, I've just bought and finished the game. That was some serious reverse deja-vu

[@ahmedmuawia2447]

I think both are warnings of different things but I agree Brave New world have a stronger message to voice, and all together it's currently more relative.

[@Solon1581]

It's weird seeing one's online friends in unexpected places. But I have to agree. I really need to start reading Brave New World as soon as possible.

[@ahmedmuawia2447]

@@Solon1581 yooo my man, You really should lol

[@athishnirup1815]

I think 1984 is soo overrated, people forget that Barve new world is more relevant where on the other hand 1984 is too extreme.

[@Trollge398]

because the world of 1984 was carefully crafted by Orwell so that everyone can hate it you won't see any right winger or left winger claiming that Oceania is an utopia hence 1984 is well known as dystopia brave new world on the other hand challenge the definition of dystopia itself unlike other dystopia its subject are not living a miserable life, rarely does the state use force,the subjects despite having "free will" choose to support dictatorship not our of fear but due to consent. Also brave new world dictatorship has an ideology that being an one world technocratic atheist materialistic government which while many in the right would consider but for some in left consider it utopia

[@athishnirup1815]

@@Trollge398 yeah I agree with you, but will it really happen it sounds so terrifying both 1984 and Barve new world are not good, and some people support this,it's so accurate and specified.

[@Trollge398]

@@athishnirup1815 that is your view and I somewhat agree with it Anyways since you wanted to know why 1984 is so much popular and In my opinion it is because Orwell dystopia did not have any goal or ideology aside from being "bruh evil" and that was necessary since Orwell wanted to show the dangers of totalitarian Brave new world dictatorship on the other hand has an end goal and a ideology and some effort was put by writer after all if an state want to continue to remain in power fear cannot be an permanent tool consent is also important,if the state only used fear then one day will come when that state is overthrown.

[@athishnirup1815]

@@Trollge398 I think that definitely is a prime reason why 1984 is popular, but Orwell was already an established writer and was quite popular especially when he served in the spainsh civil War siding with the Republicans,so his popularity was also one of the reasons why his 1984 was popular.

[@retroflame3104]

Brave new world is not more relevant. Brave new world does not exist nor has it ever existed, many people over history have tried their hardest to achieve 1984. From Nazi Germany to Stalinist Russia to the CCP 1984 is FAR more prevalent.

[@PakBallandSami]

loving this new art style it has the 80's aesthetic really fits the mood of the channel imo

[@ondrejkral653]

Why is Brave New World dystopia, if you are happy? That's utopia.

[@Lightscribe225]

Because it's still a stratified structure that requires a lower working class. Making them happy doesn't mean it's a utopia. Utopian societies are typically considered free of imperfection. Such as in a Shape of Things to Come, classes are eliminated. There's no lower class, no upper class. Everyone is a middle class intellectual with only a minimum of work needed to keep society functioning, and happiness that comes from accomplishment rather than genetic conditioning and drugs.

[@ondrejkral653]

@@Lightscribe225 Thank you!

[@tefky7964]

Technically people in 1984 are probably very happy too...

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Excellent video, thank you! BNW terrifies me much more compared to just 1984. Even though aspects of 1984 still happened today increasingly like they did in the past, the aspects of Life increasingly being pushed to resemble BNW is beyond alarming and has to be reversed.

[@centurionzen1005]

1984 is about what happens when we let our fears control us. Brave New World is about what happens when we let what we love control us.

[@Gabriel-hx6wc]

The goverment of 1984, Ingsoc *Is* Socialist, the book itself states that "Ingsoc" stands for "English Socialism" (And Yes, I am reading the book), this fact can also be confirmed looking up in Wikipedia for Ingsoc.

[@1perspective286]

Not sure how far you are into the book yet, so potential spoilers ahead. The party calls itself socialist, but it really is just raw totalitarianism masquerading as socialism, which is actually how purely socialist societies tend to end up. It's important to remember that Orwell also considered himself a socialist, even while he wrote the book, so he does go out of his way to clarify that point. Come to think of it, that's probably why Ezekiel doesn't like the book.

[@Gabriel-hx6wc]

@@1perspective286 Indeed although Orwell was a socialist himself, it seems that in the book he was making a critique to Stalinism/Socialist Authorian societies. 1984 Is not the only critique he Made to Socialism, Animal Farm is another example

[@1perspective286]

@@Gabriel-hx6wc True

[@mikeoxsmal8022]

@@Gabriel-hx6wc 1984 is a criticism of totalitarianism in general it isn't going after one side but totalitarianism in general

[@Gabriel-hx6wc]

@@mikeoxsmal8022 I understand, My point is that the story is settled in a socialist dictatorship.

[@dharmapersona2084]

Huxley's Predictions are way more accurate, as everything that is important or mindblowing, both politically or spiritually, is already out there on the internet, but most people, especially youth, are too lazy to see that, and they would rather watch music videos, movies, pop culture etc... So the important stuff gets ignored, while the stupid stuff is consumed.

[@captaineflowchapka5535]

what the point of important idea if u don't grasp of it those book are for entertainment ,but as all creative thing , are profoundly politic , there vehicle a idea or ideologie. the problem is not that culture is dumb and so are the consumer, is that dumb is culture and there are made to be consume as is .

[@miguelpadeiro762]

Our society is increasingly consumerist

[@Trollge398]

Just like materialistic aspects spirituality is also used by people to escape harsh reality do you really think people Bible gita quran to achieve enlightenment to find their significant in these large universe no, instead they focus on religion to keep themselves distracted from the harsh reality. At past when there were no TV movies music people read religious book and scripture to keep themselves distracted in hard times

[@Trollge398]

@@miguelpadeiro762 it always was consumerist

[@miguelpadeiro762]

@@Trollge398 It wasn't "always", it has been for sometime, at least since ww2 in America and eventually in most of the world. You speak of the bible, but last time I checked a bible, I didn't get a bill to pay to consume it. That's the problem of modern mass-consumerism. We consume, big monopolies shit out average at best products and we take them, because we need them. Star wars, disney, pretty much most hollywood action flicks, all made with money first in mind, creative vision second.

[@kekero540]

1984 is better written imo both are equal in their social commentary. But 1984 has a more coherent and actually pretty brilliant storytelling. You peel back the layers of the world only to find out by the end of the book that there were no layers you know so little you don’t even know whether anything is true or not.

[@bb9a]

Yep

[@skylerthompson8652]

The terror of a brave new world isn't the brutality of the regime or horrific living conditions. The horror is the fact that all experiences aren't genuine. Everyone is guaranteed the means to exist but nobody is actually living life. The things that make life worth living, pain, joy, sadness, ecstasy, they don't exist in that universe. The horror of that universe is that people live an entire existence enslaved to contentment and never actually become something by their own terms.

[@internetuser4210]

Brave new world sounds like my Spore pacifist run ngl

[@Gallalad1]

That mechanicus ost though

[@jansvoboda4293]

Yeah, Children of Omissiah. The best fit with visuals though seems to be the video of cathedral dedicated to military. That really have some 40K vibes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3yydJ6ges95ntk

[@neptunestudio2857]

I think we can all agree that the worst society is a combination of both

[@Insane_kicks]

We're living in 1984, and brave new world is just a nicer version, either way they are both awful

[@lunaball1549]

There is an INGSOCball

[@chauchat1838]

*There is no hope under the black sun*

[@Trollge398]

the Aryan race can only thrive on the ashes of the old world

[@SkitGaming]

Did I miss something when reading 1984? I thought the book ended with Winston being successfully broken by the party, not the end of the regime

[@Dallows65]

"When you read about Brave New World's Dystopia, you'll want to be in it" No, no I wouldn't. Self Determination is intrinsic to being human, that is the ultimate detail that Brave New world forgets.

[@destroyer1667]

They have genetic engineering. They can simply remove that irrelevant detail

[@greatdays7050]

Then please stop complaining about genocide and rape

[@gronskko]

Both novels are great in their own right, but if I have to choose sides, I stick with Brave New World. There is something about the cleanliness, about the always perfect society, that is chilling. It's not really a critique to anything that had come before Huxley's time, but something he feared would come. It's the eternal fight of freedom versus safety, certainty versus free will. It's the eternal battle that wages on in history, in politics, in society and even in our daily lives. It's something very human, and that's why it's more appealing to me. 1984 is great, it's the fight for the truth against oppression and lies, but it's too simple (not in the bad sense of the word) for you to be directly inserted into it. However, Brave New World just perfectly manages to make you feel safe and at home in its magical and safe landscapes, nothing can ever go wrong, and you will always be content with what you have... but the Savage is there to remind us truly of the human spirit, of our free will to do as we desire, or as we think is morally right. To follow our passion and our heart, even if it leads us down to roads of misery. I'm a believer that a man should be able to choose his destiny, but when you witness the horrors of modern day society and its many mistakes.... it's hard to choose between free will or the safety of a perfect society where you just are a mere puppet of the controllers. It's certainly food for thought, but one thing is clear: each day that passes is a day we are closer to becoming the society of Huxley's work. Thanks for your video Ezekiel. As always, really good.

[@Nopal11-v5m]

You right! Maybe brave new world is better, but just because BNW is better in much aspect it not make 1984 bad,mediocre, or overrated, No!. 1984 have own unique idea and well execution, also this book used to critique totalitarian regime in east europe,so while BNW is more better in much aspect, in storyline i more prefer to 1984. So everyone had they own favorite thing and that’s normal 😉

[@springtrap54009]

screw both books, i want a better future, in which NO ONE IS EITHER DRUNK OR ON DRUGS AND COCAINE!

[@tmiedema1782]

You videos are always improving its great. I read both books for English and BNW has always been more influential for me. But i think is because we live in the west and 1984 is more probable to happen to a totalitarian society. (Als I recognize te background music you sir have good tast in game’s)

[@garethdavies7191]

When people say 1984 is both I think they mean how the backstory of the country and the ruling party takes elements of the rise of both fascism and communism and a lot of details about how the state is run is inspired by real historical events.

[@carlose4314]

Oceania could also be a North Korea-like rump state.

[@abramhinde8178]

north korea is literally oceania, its oceania but better since they have arcades.

[@jorgeigualbonilla9998]

Yep, I've to reread BNW

[@IshijimaKairo]

"we live in an age of progress" he said, while playing Children Of The Omnissiah, a theme used by heretics known for holding their much more powerful friends technologically hostage.

[@def3ndr887]

Because without hardships, we’ll never learn to truly love the things we have

[@Steyr32]

That's for the dumb people, smart people just need to think to be grateful.