2-Stroke vs 4-Stroke: 2023 KTM 300XC vs KTM 350XCF Back to Back GP/Woods Loop

[@worldwide1873]

Man I’m reallly torn between these two bikes right now. Great video! Awesome to see the difference and great commentary. Help me choose!! Haha 😆 will be a track and trail bike.

[@mxengineer1]

When I go to a new moto track and learn new jumps the 350 thumper is easier to ride. Once I learn the track and jumps then I go out on the 300 smoker. If you ride moto a little more the thumper may have a slight edge. If you ride woods and more technical trails the 300 smoker has a clear advantage. I always have a 350 thumper and 300 smoker in my garage!

[@tri7272]

The speed difference is the little weight difference. I MUCH prefer my 350excf over my buds brand new 300 mainly because engine breaking. I use engine breaking constantly. And for that reason I enjoy the 350. Not to mention the 300 leaks spooge out the taip pipe and smells like an ass to all the folks behind it.

[@breeno59]

The answer is always "one more bike"! I gave in and picked up a 350 to sit alongside the 300 in the garage. Just like kids, I love 'em both 🤣

[@mxengineer1]

And when your kids are old enough to ride each one will need a bike so that will help justify even more bikes in the garage!

[@breeno59]

@@mxengineer1 Alcoholics at the bar, yes we are 🤣

[@dalepetersen6533]

Im really impressed with your conditioning. I'd be gasping !! Good review.

[@mxengineer1]

Thanks!

[@jasonkellerman7534]

Great video. Hopefully, you can help me narrow my choice down to the right one... im 6'1", 250, and 46 years old. I will ride mostly woods but some mx track for fun. What bike would better suit me 350 xcf or 300 xc.. I rode most of my younger years and raced some as well. I want to have fun but may race some gncc's. Which bike would you recommend?

[@mxengineer1]

No wrong choice! Austrian 350's (KTM/Husky/Gas Gas) have been my favorite combination of Power/Weight/Handling in a 4-stroke dirt bike. The '23 300XC is such a capable bike and so good in the woods (almost stall proof and runs cooler than a 4-stroke). The 350 can give a more confident feel when learning new jumps on a moto track while the 300XC will feel better on tighter more technical woods riding. If you want to ride GNCC the 350XCF might have a slight edge. If you want to ride mostly woods the 300XC has a slight edge. My vote is to buy both! No wrong choice! Here is my 23 300XC Does it All review (rd 1)... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH2Yf4OOma2VoMU Here is my 350XCF Favorite 4-stroke review... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWnUZaSifbJ8iMU

[@johnkling3537]

Dual wheelies 🚀 and Air ⚡️

[@mxengineer1]

You know it!

[@Mikey97D]

I need to haul some rocks to add a rock garden to your loop! :) Awesome content as always. Interesting the new chassis with a 4 stroke motor isn't as nimble.

[@SkinnySkinch]

4 strokes never feel as nimble as 2 strokes. Its the motor not the chassis making it feel light and nimble even though theyre the same weight

[@Mikey97D]

@@SkinnySkinch always with that many moving parts. He mentioned in the video the new chassis 350 doesn't feel as nimble as the '22 350 chassis which was really my question not against the 2 stroke. I didn't explain it well enough.

[@SkinnySkinch]

@@Mikey97D Oh no worries I didnt even realize he said that. I think its fine to still describe it as the "chassis" feeling light. I was just mentioning the fact that the chassis isn't actually doing that, it's the motor. Considering the KTMs have been same or similar chassis from 2 to 4 strokes for a while now they will have same chassis same weight but yet the 2 stroke will always feel lighter and more nimble/agile. It's just bc of the motor. Kind of like how a 250 2 stroke feels WAY more nimble than a 300 2 stroke. The 300 doesn't rev as quickly.

[@Mikey97D]

@@SkinnySkinch a little off topic but I like the discussion! I was a long time 250 2T rider myself for those exact reasons. I went to the 300TX in '17 just for a change in pace. The newer motor does spin up a lot faster that the previous '16 and older 300 motors, but still isn't as nimble as a 250 can be simply cause of the gyro we are talking about. I am curious how the new 250 TBI bike will compare in power/torque to the previous models.

[@mxengineer1]

Lots of great discussion! What I describe is the '22 350 with previous chassis/engine (current chassis on Gas Gas models) is lighter and feels lighter in motion than the '23 350 with the new chassis and engine. The '23 chassis traded some quick steering for more stability at speed and it is noticeable on the track in the corners and in the woods. The '23 chassis with the all new 300 TBI engine is light feel and quick turning and still has good stability at speed...this new chassis works well with the new 300 TBI engine. I believe the '21/22 model year 250/300XC engines use the same crank and con rod so the inertia difference is in the weight of the piston and it is not so noticeable to me while riding as I rode a '21 250XC back to back with my '21 300XCW the other week...both felt very agile. Have not ridden a '23 250XC back to back with by '23 300XC yet.

[@mark_Hershey]

How many hours you got on your 300xc now? Have you had any kind of cutting out issue, like you hit the kill switch when you gassing on it. Mine started it a couple weeks ago, digging into the internet it seems to happen to other bikes. Not really a consensus on fix.

[@mxengineer1]

I sold my 23 KTM 300XC last fall with about 20 hours use and no issues. My 2023 Husky TX300 has about 18 hours on it now with no issues. Not hard to find quality issues in the 23/24 300 TBI owners groups on Facebook. Might be best to take your bike to a local KTM dealer and connect it to the XC2 tool and see if there are some fault codes. Good luck!

[@zhuff2222]

Being someone who has ridden a lot of different bikes, what is your opinion on mx bikes for someone who does 50/50 woods and track riding casually for fun? I'm interested in the 23 KTM 300 sx because I can find them in stock and it is almost $2k cheaper than the xc. I enjoy your videos. Keep it up!

[@mxengineer1]

Glad you enjoy the videos! I often ride MX bikes in the woods. The '23 300SX is a bargain for the performance of that engine. 300XC has 6 speed otherwise same engine spec so it will putt at near zero RPM's without stalling on tight technical trails or pull wheelies in 5th gear and rip around a MX track....enjoy that $2000 savings and have fun!

[@victorgailums6784]

I have an FC 450 and a TX 300 tpi I think that the 300 is by far the best all around bike. Of course, if on a large open track, the 450 is a tad better BUT the 300 does both very very well. The 450 for woods is crap. I am pondering trading both in next spring for the new tbi 300.

[@mxengineer1]

@@victorgailums6784 You might find a new 300 TBI engine bike does everything great for you...wide open riding or tight trails...my 4-strokes are not getting ridden much lately;)

[@mxengineer1]

@@victorgailums6784 The new 300 TBI engine is powerful enough that it may more than hold it's own on a large open track (like your 450) but still rips in the woods too!;)

[@victorgailums6784]

@@mxengineer1 I am sure it will. I am slow so the 450 is to much even on a moto track. Since my riding is 70 percent woods, the 450 is the one to go. Keep us posted on your experiences. appreciate it.

[@bmc664]

which one you taking to a gncc or scramble? sweet video.

[@mxengineer1]

For a GNCC/Scramble (more open terrain) probably the 350XCF...that bike worked pretty well for Kailub Russell!

[@brutus6328]

Here's an embarrassingly dumb question.....I get my 2023 KTM SX F 350 delivered tomorrow morning! Just got the manual and it says 95 gas.....Do you just fill with premium 93 from any pump or do I need an octane booster? Sorry, grew up on 2 strokes! THANKS in advance!

[@mxengineer1]

Congratulations on your new 350SXF! Enjoy your new bike! 93 Premium gas will work fine.

[@brutus6328]

@@mxengineer1 I greatly appreciate the reply!!! Seems as though the consensus is the KTM is tuned to run on 91 or better. The manual threw me off as it says "ROZ 95" and reading about the RON and ROZ can get confusing. Just seems so strange using gas straight from a regular pump! LOL I had been mixing for 2 strokes the last 20+years.

[@eighteenwheeler1]

Great video. I would love your opinion on something. I currently ride a 23' CRF 250F with the suspension all done up for me. The bike rides good and tbh, I am such a lax trail rider I dont push that bike to its limits, however I would like some more power. In addition my gf wants a 250f for herself, and instead of paying 4k for a 250f for her, I was thinking of spending 6 to 7k for a used KTM for myself. For Arizona desert trail riding, do you think I should look for a Enduro 300 or an Enduro 350 (no cross country bikes probably).

[@mxengineer1]

23 CRF250F is a very fun and capable bike - especially for trail riding. If you get an off road focused 250 like a KTM 250XCF or KTM 350XCWF you may be surprised how easily you adapt to lighter weight and more power than your CRF250F.

[@eighteenwheeler1]

@@mxengineer1 Thank you for the reply. That's what I figured after I rode a friend's KTM 250. I have a 06 450 CRF, but it's just not a good trail bike. Was tossing up between a 300 XC or a 350 EXC. Never rode a 2 stroke and I always heard they aren't as good at desert or riding slow.

[@mxengineer1]

@@eighteenwheeler1 300 2-strokes have broad (for a 2-stroke) powerbands with lots of low to mid power. Here is a back to back I did with a Gas Gas MC350 and my 23 TX300...both capable bikes. I think if you have a CRF450R you could adapt to a 300 smoker or 350F.

[@worldwide1873]

Do you find the engine breaking tiring? And do you find the top end of 300 to not be as fast since it sounds like it stops pulling when revving high?

[@mxengineer1]

If you come off riding a 300 2-stroke the engine braking on any 4-stroke is very noticeable. With the new Connectivity Unit Offroad (CUO) engine braking can be dialed back on the 23/24 350: it is subtle but noticeable and frees up the bike, especially corner entry. A 350 4-stroke has the broadest usable power RPM range of any bike....say 5000~13,000 rpm's. The 300 smoker is around 4000~9000 rpm's and the 2-stroke goes through the usable RPM range quickly making it "feel" like it goes flat. Both are fun to ride and very usable overall.

[@worldwide1873]

@@mxengineer1 thanks for the info. Very helpful. Planning on testing both at dealership. Last question, is the 300 not as planted feeling just a. Feeling or have you noticed that it’s truly more unstable? And that the 350 is truly more stable ? Feeling vs reality. As in actually tossed around on the 300 more whereas 350 doesn’t move

[@mxengineer1]

@@worldwide1873 4-strokes generally have a little more planted feel due to more engine inertia and engine braking - both which tend to load the front end a little more. 2-strokes have less engine inertia and almost no engine braking so they tend to float over the bumps and that can feel a little less stable. When the suspension is set up well the 300 and 350 both feel very good at speed on the rough ground with the latest chassis.

[@RC.56]

Nice ride…. What about adding a recluse to the 350? Or having the xcf-w? Or both. Thoughts? Trying to decide… first bike, 6’2 210

[@mxengineer1]

Rekluse removes stalling concern on 350XCF. The 350XCF-W does run much smoother at low engine RPM's. I prefer the extra power of the 350XCF over the lower power 350XCF-W...350XCF with Rekluse would be very tempting for me as it would work in the woods and still be fun for Vet moto!

[@RC.56]

@@mxengineer1 Thanks for the reply… I don’t know what vet moto is, but just want to putt around woods and open trails…. Might try a track just to learn and for fun if they have that… road lots of track with street bikes, never dirt bikes… sold all bikes, switching to dirt… Considered a xcf250, but think I could grow into a 350, so why not. Still researching changes between the Gens…Air sus vs spring, etc. the xcfw has a a pds read suspension, and xcf has linkage sus… one better over the other? So many question… weight.. frame….jeez.

[@mxengineer1]

@@RC.56 OK - for putting around the 350XCW-F is much better! The engine has very smooth power and resists stalling at low RPM. The non linkage (PDS) rear suspension is simple and lightweight and the 350XCW-F suspension setting is targeted at trail/woods riding so very absorbing and plush. The XPLOR forks have springs so no need to check or adjust air pressure. I would focus on 2016 and later 350XCF-W's (big update in 2016 to chassis and engine - much lighter). Depending on your budget there could be some incentives from KTM from February on 2023 KTM 350XCF-W's. Vet Moto is slowly riding around motocross tracks as an older rider (me!) Enjoy your new 350XCF-W!

[@RC.56]

@@mxengineer1 you and me both!

[@RC.56]

@@mxengineer1 the more research I do, the farther I get from a decision... they dont make a 350 xcf-w for 23. so its one of those you have there....

[@usa45v26]

Any concerns with buying a first year bike? I really want to pick one of these 300's up to go with my '21 450SXF FE. Looking for all around woods/GP style, not hard enduro rock crawling.

[@mxengineer1]

Being an engineer I tend to be an early adopter of new tech so my opinion is biased! I am also fortunate to have a local dealer that has a long history with KTM so if I have issues it is possible to get them resolved. Having said that this is a 300 2-stroke so the base engine is fairly simple. The fuel injection system and associated parts are similar to those used on a 4-stroke engine so all of those parts are well known and developed. My '23 300XC has been to the shop to clear the EFI code (though the bike ran perfectly with the light flashing). It also got an updated engine map and it runs the same after the Map update though if I push the starter button with the engine running it not longer triggers the EFI error code. For me the 23 KTM 300XC TBI had been perfect for all around woods/GP riding and the engine sets a new bar for 2-stroke engine performance and the bike really "Does it All".... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH2Yf4OOma2VoMU

[@usa45v26]

@@mxengineer1 Hopefully a smoother power delivery than my 450 (which i love), it just wears me out in 50+ C. Never intended on buying a 450, it was just too good of a deal to pass up! lol So, the woods GP bike needs to be easier to handle.

[@mxengineer1]

@@usa45v26 The 300 TBI engine is powerful and controllable and so easy to ride. Hope you get a chance to take a spin on one then you can decide if you like the power character. For me it is a no brainer...300 for the win!

[@usa45v26]

@@mxengineer1 Which one has more vibrations or tire you out quicker in your opinion? Theyre probably both less than my 450.

[@mxengineer1]

@@usa45v26 The counterbalanced KTM 250/300 2-stroke engines set the bar for vibration free engines - so smooth it helps you ride longer with less fatigue. The KTM 350 vibrates only a little less than the KTM 450 - both vibrate more than they should! The 350 is easier to ride longer compared to a 450 and 350's have always been my favorite combination of Power/Weight/Handling in a 4-stroke dirt bike. The new 300XC TBI would be a great addition to your garage and different riding experience from your 450SXF especially in the woods.

[@mschumaker1]

Surprised the time was the same I thought you were faster on the 300XC

[@mxengineer1]

I've done a lot of back to back ride on this GP/Woods loop and the 23 300XC (and now I ride 23 Husky TX300) are usually quickest. The KR350 is still my favorite 4-stroke. I am having fun on my current 300's: 24 Beta 300 Race Edition and 23 Husky TX300 Heritage Edition... kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWTFXpeFYtd6bLc

[@michaelanderson1727]

👍👍

[@LifeWideOpen780]

Do you just own ktms?

[@mxengineer1]

Seems like it but I own a few other brands