2002 NBA ReDraft: Yao Ming or Amar’e Stoudemire? | Bill Simmons’ Book of Basketball 2.0

[@ejrthree]

Man I love playing 2K with these on in the background

[@maplebear6527]

FR BRO!! haha i thought i was the only one.. You'll be doing some trades now haha

[@fernandos4231]

facts!

[@ejrthree]

@@maplebear6527 LMAO

[@Qstorm88]

Same!

[@nothere8822]

i just be playing park listening to these redraftables

[@alerog745]

Does anyone know if Bill had clippers season tickets in the 2000s?

[@maplebear6527]

He did, but they played in the wrong era

[@GuavaConQueso]

Alerog745 I kno right. He’s mentioned it for each edition of these.

[@waxl121]

36:42 LMAO

[@Kirbystare1992]

Alerog745 😂😂

[@wesmaly]

i had no idea despite him saying it every episode of this

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

"Is Antawn Jamison a hall of famer" Hell no. The dude never even made a single all-nba team. He never won anything, he was never seen as one of the best among his peers, he was just a dude who was an all star a coupe times.

[@rods7028]

Idk how this is even a topic. Jamison is so forgotten. Yes he can score but HE WAS NO HALL OF FAMER

[@ja8ames]

@@rods7028 Maybe it's attached to his college career, just that sort of visibility never really not being a part of how people think of him.

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

@@ja8ames He definitely had a good college career, no disagreements there, but so did Mike Bibby. It would be ridiculous of either of them to be in the BBall HoF though.

[@LucasDHill]

Simmons constantly bemoans the idea that Antawn Jamison is gonna get into the hall of fame as if it’s inevitable and uses it as an example of how it’s too easy to get in, it’s so strange.

[@dataslul]

I posted a very similar thing on another vid. Who cares if he scored 20K career points? At a certain point, standards have to change because of longevity. Walter Davis scored nearly 20K, and no one thinks he's a HoF player.

[@vanishing_girl]

Chris description of Boozer is so wrong, Boozer wasn't a 14/7 player lol. He was 16/10 for his career and a 20/10 guy in his prime.

[@jakesmooke3644]

They act like his mid range game wasn't smooth

[@Apochocolate]

Seriously. That Montrezl Harrell comparison makes no sense as well. Surprised no one called him out on that.

[@punchsmack]

He didn't say Boozer averaged 14/7, he was saying that era's PF that averaged 14 pts & grabbed 7-10 rebounds, which Boozer was near, doesn't have a place in today's game at all.

[@proximiiity4489]

@MANCHESTER UNITED F.C people like you are the reason why I hate soccer

[@andu1854]

He was the player I thought was going to be better than Mike Dunleavy (who also might be a crappy GM, To go along with him being super mediocre

[@patrickficklin]

Ringer getting me through the quarantine. Excellent content.

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Yeah this has been a great time waster. I'm new to the channel and it's pretty dope seeing people as big of NBA nerds as me haha.

[@danielabatabogdanov8586]

What quarantine?

[@patrickficklin]

@@danielabatabogdanov8586 2 months late brother

[@danielabatabogdanov8586]

@@patrickficklinmy bad im in sweden

[@lucrussell9363]

@Charlie Chamberlain for real

[@joenicedj]

Matt Barnes also played for all four California teams. Not sure anyone else in NBA history achieved that.

[@R.B.90]

He also played Phoenix, he played in the whole division. I wonder if any other player has played for a whole division. Any division that's crazy. He also only played in southern cities. The other two teams being Orlando and Memphis. Sacramento was the furthest north he played. Crazy for a guy who played for 7 teams might also be a weird useless record lol... edit: I'm wrong he played for 2 teams in the north Phi and NY... didnt know he played it for those teams.

[@nadiadaddy]

Yeah he's the only player so far to wear all 4 Cali jerseys

[@majedal-baghl4917]

Mitch Richmond played for the Warriors, Kings. and Lakers, but not the Clippers.

[@joenicedj]

Texas has three teams: Rockets, Spurs, and Mavericks. I know Steve Novak played for all three. I think Avery Johnson did the same.

[@danielclark6912]

Remember violence is never the answer... but sometimes it is

[@SonnyCortez333]

First time Ive ever heard STAT get the praise like this from someone that wasnt in the league. Hearing you guys pick him over Yao AND chris webber is refreshing to hear for all Suns fans

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Stringer Bell STAT had HOF talent these dudes sleeping

[@roboninja3194]

@@casualfandestroyer2503 Plenty of players have had HoF talent. What you do with that talent is what counts 😉 And remind me, did he ever win anything? Cause all i saw was early playoff exits and trash years with the Knicks. That is not a HoF player imo. HoF players should be the cream of the crop, clearly the best player at their position for their era or about a decade and winning ring helps a lot. But obviously a title is not a requirement. He played 8 seasons in PHX. 1 was only 3 games and 2 others were 50 games both because of injury. So roughly 6 seasons of above average play while winning no rings and not even making it to the finals is a HoF pedigree? Cmon now. And please don't say he was good in NY. He had 1 very good season and 1 average season. The other 3 were trash. Then he was non existent in Dallas and Miami. Now if he had stayed healthy his entire career and the Suns make 1 finals appearance i think he deserves HoF consideration.

[@razkable]

I think c webb at his peak was better....but he was not better for a long time or anything...c webb could playmake so that sets him apart for me...he legit could average 4.5 assists in a series without hurting you and close to 5 a night before he started to turn it over too much

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Asmosis Jones MUCH more playoff games than Yao and won Roy over him and also more seasons averaging 23+ ppg in a season and is the only player in nba history to average 259 plus 2 blocks and not make the hall of fame and finished top 10 in mvp voting 4 times Yao Ming= Rik smits Amar’e= Shawn Kemp with a deadly jumper

[@eddie9244]

his jumpshot improved so much after 2005-2006 microfracture surgery. my suns got robbed in 2007

[@H2A2I00]

Surprised that no one mentioned Luis Scola's role in argentina's "golden generation". He was a staple on those international teams, including the gold medal team

[@nextoesc]

They only talk about nba, didnt mention Gasols international career neither

[@maplebear6527]

24:00 mins in and Bill has JUST made his second "wrong era" analogy. Doing good today Bill, you actually went easy on the "wrong era's" today

[@pts5217]

Maple Bear He gets a lot of shit for that, but to me it seems like the point of this. Hindsight 20/20 and knowing how the game changed

[@maplebear6527]

@@pts5217 Thing is, he's right most of the time. It's just once it's a meme, it's hard to ignore lol

[@Juice-ig3jz]

Big Sky Blue I agree I don’t understand why people are bothered by it.

[@carlosg.delgado7996]

Juice facts bro, like anytime he mentions it he’s actually right 90% of the time imo, alot of these players would be good/elite in today’s game

[@maplebear6527]

@@carlosg.delgado7996 I wonder what his list would look like, if he was listing players who would struggle in the old era?

[@patrickl6987]

Amare, Arenas and Jermaine O'neal are the most forgotten elite players of that 2000-2010 decade.

[@guillermovazquez1084]

Baron Davis, Shawn Marion, Andre Kirlienko, they up there too might be a couple more

[@R.B.90]

@@guillermovazquez1084 I think your list is a lot better than the one given. No one has forgotten Arenas or Amare lol. Those names come up all the time. Amare tried to make a come back last year and arenas was in the news telling vince to retire.

[@floorgeneral309]

Man, Jermaine O’Neal just fell off the earth. Was arguably a top 5 player and MVP candidate in 2004

[@gregorycastillo4799]

I remember watching the blazers randomly n they put O’Neal in and he dunked left handed hard. And he ran around and I was like this guy is pretty good

[@guillermovazquez1084]

@@floorgeneral309 him an Artest but the brawl ruined their year

[@andyh4518]

For pure on the court productivity Amar'e is number one. But if you want to rake in the dough then Yao was the clear winner. The financial impact of getting in on the Chinese market was huge.

[@danielclark6912]

Right and now our country is suffering bc we wanted in Chinese markets

[@matthewgarcia7654]

@@danielclark6912 that's a bit different though... Yao brought in the Chinese CONSUMERS to the NBA market, which isnt the same as what lead to our indebtedness to China

[@danielclark6912]

@@matthewgarcia7654 its all intertwined.

[@nuraby_9228]

@@danielclark6912 Our country is suffering because morons like you vote republican lmao

[@chrissullivan6572]

Scola was solid. Can't believe he wanted to take Flip over him.

[@razkable]

goes to show these guys know very little while trying to add some comedy it makes little common sense to put flip and scola in the same category so it doesn't land....like I listened to their full podcast about this draft and ryan didn't know that haslem was undrafted bill didn't know he was way out of shape like insanely overweight to play in the nba and chris picked juan carlos navarro when asked by bill who he thinks is the best undrafted player from this draft who won a ring and played until recently in the nba and was the active leader in games played with one team..juan has been absent for over a decade now....why would he pick him?.. ...bill has some more albeit bias clarity and perspective research objectivity but he too forgot brad miller deshawn stevenson a few other borderline players he could of picked in other drafts instead of some of his choices like jay will who was trash after his injury..2 time all star brad miller not being picked was insane..

[@bigboner23]

Way better than gooden

[@ulovil]

they need Re-redraft

[@blc0179]

Yeah.. Flip had one good year with the Sonics when Ray Allen was hurt.. thats about it

[@mikeyoungblood1642]

This was the ultimate all-star reserves draft outside of Stoudemire and Yao

[@KingJohnTX]

The Yao disrespect is a little much, he was an All-NBA caliber player when healthy.

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

How did they disrespect him? They said they'd pick him 2nd, which is completely reasonable considering Yao was never an All-NBA 1st team player, and Stoudemire was (who also won ROY over Yao). There isn't anything wrong with what they said.

[@CheefChaos]

Amare was cheated out of a Finals appearance.

[@AndrewThrasher1987]

I kind of agree considering this series has been really open to looking past injury issues. Peak Yao was better than peak Amare IMO. He was a force at both ends of the floor.

[@KingJohnTX]

@@MysticMungusSlungus Not even about choosing Amare first, I'd take Yao but that's debatable. Saying it's not debatable and that the fact that Yao's the 2nd pick in a redraft shows how bad the draft is, is where the disrespect comes in.

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

@@KingJohnTX Ah, I understand where you're coming from. Yeah, it is certainly debatable, it's not like Amare was the clear #1 here, especially since his attitude was terrible (documented in SSOL). Personality/lockerroom wise, Yao would definitely be the better player to have.

[@bdictjames]

Luis Scola had a nice post-up game! That scoop shot was truly extraordinaire. Wish the Spurs would have kept him instead of traded him for nothing.

[@voiceofreason2674]

Lmao that thing where he goes into like an underhand skyhook ?

[@bdictjames]

@@voiceofreason2674 Lol yes.. I called it the scoop shot lol. Weird but it worked haha.

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Any player who ever averaged 25/9 with 2 blocks for a season made the hall of fame Amare will make HOF generational talent criminally underrated

[@tonyschimmoeller]

If Nets win the championship, that is a very real possibility.

[@alessandroolivieri7]

There was some hidden pearl in that draft. Luis Scola is undervalued guy, just because he entered late in the league but lasted for 10 years anyway, from when he was 27. And the last season he was effective i Toronto he shoot 40% from 3 and probably if he enter now in the league he would be a smaller Jokic for what he can do on the offensive hand. Meanwhile if he has entered earlier in his career he would have been a lot better because he was a tremendus post up player. And the fact that in the last Fiba Wolrd Cup he was the best player also among a lot of NBA players tells a lot on what his talent is. He should deserve the 7th or 8th pick for the redraft. Another two great player that never was in that draft were Nachbar and Navarro, the first arrived in the league in the wrong time (and wrong teams) and the NBA didn't love him so much, but now he would be a perfect 3&D forward (he has a 37.5% from 3 in his career). Navarro instead showed up just one season to try to have Gasol happy in Memphis and they traded Pau in the very same season! Of course he quit from the NBA, but maybe in another world if he arrived earlier in the league, how many rookies from Europe shot 5.3 times a game with a 36% from 3? He was good as fuck and he was just another player that just to say would be better than Jay Williams just based on raw talent. Also Navarro would be for sure in the HOF for what he did in Europe in the second best league in the world (and in Fiba Olympics and World Cup).

[@ryanmontague3377]

I would have taken Scola over Gooden and Haslem. Also Prince is pretty underrated and I would have taken him over Butler and maybe Nene

[@razkable]

i'm taking haslem over nene dunleavy and scola cause he could guard dirk sheed and score 12-14 a night in the finals in wins..simple ….next question no one else could do that outside of like 5 guys in this draft

[@alessandroolivieri7]

@@razkable Haslem never scored in double figure on average in a playoff run, and also he scored more than 10 points in a NBA Finals game only 3 times. 2 of them the Heat lost (all three against Dallas). Dirk against him had 23+11 the first time and 26+10 the second time. Not that great of a job (also Dirk chocked game 4 in the 2006, that gave momentum to the Heat).

[@jeancarlos8442]

@@razkable bad take

[@jakesmooke3644]

Definitely over Nene

[@jeancarlos8442]

@@jakesmooke3644 lmao in your dreams

[@almightysosa3007]

Crazy how nene turned himself into Kenneth Faried who then turned himself into Montrez Harrell

[@voiceofreason2674]

Lmao Montrez shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence as Nene tho. Trez acts so hard but he folds against everybody

[@EmilioMejia]

My favorite thing about Caron Butler is when he was traded to the Suns along with Eric Bledsoe, did their media day and modeled for their new orange unis, and then was traded before he played a single game.

[@benhaney5843]

Tayshaun Prince, like Michael Redd, another forgetten Redeam Teamer.

[@eboooo]

Because it should have been KD

[@mrmacross]

And Carlos Boozer.

[@eddie9244]

Michael Eyob a rookie KD over a prime michael redd and tayshaun prince for team USA.... nope

[@brianasilberberg]

Absolute travesty they were picked over AI. Like borderline evil to deny Iverson that

[@eboooo]

@@eddie9244 Redd and Prince were not in their primes.

[@paulwilliams5500]

I have absolutely loved this series. Thank you so much for doing this.

[@WTFref2]

Amare was horrible defensively, meanwhile Yao anchored multiple top 3 defenses. Yao protected them rim and spaced the floor, while being a mismatch offensively for almost everyone who was guarding him.

[@danielclark6912]

Amar'e was as good as dantoni told him to be and he was the best offensive big man in the late 2000s. He regularly bodied Duncan and nowitski.

[@WTFref2]

Daniel Clark he was not better offensively than Dirk in the late 2000’s. Dirk literally won an MVP due to his offense I’ve ability in the late 2000’s. You’re looking at dunks and highlights. Amare was less efficient due to his long mid range jumpers compared to dirk’s threes. And Duncan was much better defensively.

[@danielclark6912]

@@WTFref2 amare regularly out played both of them. Overall yes both are better players but amare still out scored and out played them. That's a big reason why phx had a better record than them most of the time and why phx never won a title (bc amare was always hurt)

[@voiceofreason2674]

If Yao Ming had got to the nba just two years earlier this career would’ve been so much more iconic. From day one in the nba he was the best Shaq antidote in the league.

[@bemoore4]

Bill mentioned the 3-way trade of Feb. 21, 2008. Where Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble going to the Seattle SuperSonics; the Chicago Bulls traded Joe Smith, Ben Wallace and a 2009 2nd round draft pick (Danny Green was later selected) to the Cleveland Cavaliers; the Chicago Bulls traded Adrian Griffin to the Seattle SuperSonics; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Shannon Brown, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes and Cedric Simmons to the Chicago Bulls; and the Seattle SuperSonics traded Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Got to be the only time in history that two Miami University Redhawks were involved in the same trade. (Proud Alum, Class of '87)

[@bemoore4]

@Jackson Gilmore Ira Newble and Wally Szczerbiak

[@thankyoujodi]

If this trade happened 3 years earlier...

[@reidanderson6953]

Yessss love these!!! Please do videos up to 2019 draft!!!

[@nadiadaddy]

On the first one Bill said they're gonna go up to 2016. 2019 may be too soon, but I'd watch it nonetheless.

[@xpadseyx]

I agree! I like all of these earlier years because almost all of these guys have played their entire careers so it's particularly satisfying to take a long view.

[@57wookie]

They managed to underrate Yao while picking him number 2

[@at0mly]

Pretty wild to not count the injury to Amar'e against him but to count Yao's health against him.

[@nuraby_9228]

1 is American and flashy, the other is Chinese and low-key. Plus Bill's never been afraid of showing his subconscious biases.

[@TonyJackaloni]

Amar'e was more fun to watch, so I agree 100% with Simmons.

[@eboooo]

Amare played more and played better

[@Young-ep8ik]

@@eboooo Amare scored more*. Yao was at least as good if not better when healthy. Anchored a perennial top 3 defense. Basically the same career defensive rating as KG (you won't find a big with better defensive rating in that era other than Duncan). And was the most skilled low post offensive player of all time. The only thing Amare was better at was scoring, but only by 1 point if you compare their peak ppg. If you look at scoring on per 36 basis Yao would pull ahead. And we haven't taken into account the pace Suns was playing at and the amount of transition scoring opportunities Amare had as a result. Yao was indisputably better on defense and half court offense.

[@hightide7662]

@@Young-ep8ik he’s not the most skilled low post player ever lmao

[@EmanCollins]

This was the best fucking episode, chemistry on point.

[@svgftw351]

I was waiting for this one

[@blainephillips3349]

Love this podcast series, keep em coming!

[@get_realnba]

Didn’t even realize I was subscribed to these guys but... happy I am because this is a great video thx

[@joenicedj]

That Carlos Boozer with the Bigen 88 Blue Black hair dye....unreal!

[@rods7028]

Lol

[@Kalinbuggs]

for the record.. Ben Wallace was NOT on the team that lost to the Cavs in 07

[@matthewbarry1746]

You're right. I was so sure he was on that Pistons team the Celtics beat in 2008. Maybe i should lay off the weed...

[@Kalinbuggs]

@@matthewbarry1746 he was on the Cavs tho

[@edoardosimonato]

I think Scola NBA career doesn't do justice to the great player he was (in Spain and for Argentina he was a monster)

[@full6330name]

In China world cup he was a monster. I didn't even understand it...and before NBA yes,in Tau Ceramica he was probably the best big men in europe at the time. He could easly make the basketball hall of fame.

[@chrismoseley349]

I'm more excited for their '03 redraft than I am for this year's actual draft. These are so entertaining.

[@fortynights1513]

Having seen their 03 video, yeah, that class was stacked.

[@TheDas9582]

Phoenix fan here. Stoudemire before he got hurt and went to the Knick’s was THE shit.

[@willbowden6897]

Still Yao Ming. As good as Stoudemire was, Yao is a Hall of Famer

[@wingstop5541]

- The knock against Yao is his longevity. 7 solid seasons and HOF, but he had limited playoff wins b/c of injuries to him and Tmac. So sad.

[@李彦宸-f4n]

I don't know. Yao ain't making the HOF if he's American, is more about his international influences not just nba performance. edit：But If he's American he won't have to play all the stupid Chinese national team game during offseason he might be able to have a 12+ year career and make it HOF. Cuz i think as a player he's good enough but he didn't have a career good enough Cuz of injuries.

[@Riles3152]

I mean no disrespect at all, but to me Yao Ming was more very good then Hall of Famer. He was a far more popular and wealthy man’s version of Ric Smits. He was never on Shaq’s level. Never Hakeem Olajuwon’s level. He was basically a very good big man who happened to be the first Chinese player that could legitimately play at the NBA level. But he was short having a Hall of Fame career or a Hall of Fame impact strictly as a player.

[@李彦宸-f4n]

@@Riles3152 yes his playing career alone won't make the hof. But u make him sounds like his Nick Collison. He was second team all nba, 19+9. And He only played 7 seasons due to injuries.

[@karlanthonymargate7362]

@@wingstop5541 yao never had any off season to rest his body. China would play him even when he was carrying a knock

[@kevinbillingslea2412]

Please continue the redraftables! I love this!

[@PorkTips]

I think Bruce Bowen might be the better perimeter defender of the mid 2000s

[@andresgirardo8481]

Come on Bill, I had to wait 36 min to hear you say "season tickets"!

[@BabylonGateLA]

You forgot Clippers season tickets

[@billbixby557]

I'm in this bar in the middle of a packed French Quarter during the Final Four years of Booser at Duke. Afternoon game I guess because it's broad daylight and this guy w a thick NYC accent is screaming and I mean SCREAMING about Booser's sweater of matted chest hair. People had tears in their eyes they were laughing so hard, good times. Great content, keep it coming.

[@NolimitatioNYC]

I dont get why Yao Ming doesn't get the benefit of doubt with other injury plague players. We never got to see the full potential of Yao because majority of his career he was injured. Shaq mentioned a healthy Yao would of won multiple titles in Houston.

[@bjensen]

Because sadly, the guys his size just don't stay healthy very long.

[@Young-ep8ik]

It was pretty clear rockets were the better team with Yao in that series vs lakers in 09. And that's with Tmac sitting on the bench. Had he not been injured that year, Rockets would have won at least 1 title. Kobe would likely have 2 less rings, because artest wouldn't have left to join the lakers. That was low key an injury that really changed NBA history.

[@1995Rebel]

Amare over yao ming is ridiculous b. There is no situation or team where amare could've helped more than yao.

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

1995Rebel this era ??? Amare revolutionized the center position

[@floorgeneral309]

You think the Suns w D’Antoni would’ve been better w/Yao? 🤣🤣🤣

[@mattlarghi]

@@casualfandestroyer2503 amare didnt revolutionize the center position. Draymond Green did. Amare was a huge defensive liability who helped prove, year after year, that small ball doesn't work in the playoffs. Nash won that second MVP because the Suns were nearly as good on offense without him (or Johnson) The suns would've won a title if they had kept Joe Johnson instead and traded amare for a solid PnR + defense big, Tyson chandler or something. They had the offense with Nash regardless. But you can't play championship defense with amare at center

[@eboooo]

@@mattlarghi the Suns would have won in 05 if Johnson didn't break his facebone, in 2006 he was hurt 07 they got screwed by the league with Suspensions. Every other time it was a Clooose loss to a great team.

[@eboooo]

@@mattlarghi don't put Draymond and Amare in the same category for frfr. I love draymond and his versatility but he was not the dynamic offensive threat that Amare was.

[@joenicedj]

I remember the those Wizards teams with Jamison, Arenas, and Caron. The play-by-play with Phil Chenier and Steve "Dagger" Buckhantz was excellent.

[@eboooo]

They got rid of Phil and Steve its so fucking unfortunate.

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Too bad they didn't have enough depth

[@joenicedj]

@@Buttington_Headerson they were toilet-bowl deep. Strangely enough, they had all these power forwards and centers on the team: Brendan Haywood Andray Blatche Michael Ruffin Etan Thomas And of course, Calvin Booth. The Eddie Jordan era was strangely productive in Washington at the MCI Center.

[@gregoryturner9530]

Loved Amar'e Stoudemire, dude was a beast. Even with the injuries, he was a stud. Still have a poster of Stoudemire just driving dunks home

[@taotaozhang4568]

I will not stand for this Chris Wilcox slander. Earl Watson to Chris Wilcox is a legendary connection and no one can convince me otherwise.

[@ChrisJones-cn1ew]

Did Bill have Clippers season tickets? 😆 I've watched several of these redrafts and I'm still not sure.

[@razkable]

remember these are the same guys who didn't draft 2 time all star brad miller and in a weak draft year deshawn stevenson as well as in another year ricky davis...they been making some mistakes and reaches but these three should of been picked

[@eboooo]

That's not a negative its a positive

[@benhaney5843]

Damn, you guys love Amare. Nash and the ten second offense really inflate his numbers. Sure, Yao got hurt, but so did Amare. Yaos WAY better. Also, Caron Butler the fifth best guy for Dallas? Before he got hurt he was their number 2 scorer behind Dirk.

[@Greenfrom3]

Ben Haney People act like every player who played with Nash and for the suns were trash. Amare, Marion, Johnson, Barbosa, Diaw were all good players who had success elsewhere. Amare dominated in NYC until Melo joined.

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Amare and Nash changed the game plus he would be a MUCH better fit in today’s game he would be even better

[@dtvball]

He averaged 25 and 8 his first year in New York which was his last full season. Amare was also much better in the postseason. I think it is Amare and not really that close.

[@mrmacross]

Amare Stoudemire averaged 35 and 10 on 55% shooting against the Spurs in the 2005 playoffs. When you're doing that against Duncan, you are the real deal. He also put up good numbers in his one healthy season with the Knicks. It wasn't all Nash, though playing with Nash made him a lot better. Yao was fundamentally strong, and huge, but Amare had a superior career. Yao was great on a per-minute basis, but playoff teams need their stars to log a lot of minutes, which is a big reason Yao only got out of the first round once.

[@atraingaming333]

I just came here to see them talk about Tayshaun Prince

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Underappreciated

[@razkable]

after butler who should of gone 4th not nene, its all down hill from there imo...this draft had 3 maybe 4 studs and 1 borderline superstar but not much after that...like when prince and nene are your 5th and 6th best players in a draft your draft is shit...sorry...

[@jimmabankspogo]

Please do the Cleveland trades video. I have really enjoyed and watched all of these re drafts. I also enjoy when you let us know about the trades the players have been involved in. Great stuff.

[@Paul-wu7xd]

I haven't been into basketball, since around 2005, but now I've gotten back into the game during the pandemic.

[@tobiogunyemi7631]

Please, PLEASE, do the podcast on all the trades Cleveland made during the LeBron eras - would definitely be here for that.

[@venitomendivil2533]

NO Don't even mention him here

[@imahobolin]

how yall just gonna talk about what-ifs with Amare's injuries but not Yao's? Y'all don't even talk about the skillsets Yao had, as a tower...dam y'all are underrating the hell of the big fella. I mean, just ask Shaq.

[@dtvball]

They did, they still took Amare over Yao.

[@GANGLYMAN117]

Yeah I was kinda hoping they wouldve taken more then just a minute about Yao. Some other redrafts they go on about people like darius miles for 4 minutes. Though it was mostly just nonchalant low jabs at the guy lol. I guess that's really the point of these though is to reflect on how even with redrafts past the 5 spot you don't get much returns.

[@jonathanfox676]

Matt Barnes once drove 90 miles just to beat some ass. That's a guy I want on my team. Dedicated

[@PorqueNoLosDos]

Be honest, who looked up Boozer's hair?

[@danieljackson6981]

I did

[@Eyoballin]

dont have to its such a vivid memory

[@askesl]

Wow, what a highlight for Drew Gooden at 28:10

[@connorf8638]

Aske Lund lol

[@sergiovanni5989]

I’m glad to know I’m not the only person that listens to these to fall asleep but also listen to them while playing 2k in the background lol

[@dylancyr1253]

Caron butler was not just a 3 and d guy he could take you off the dribble and he also had a nice post game

[@chrissullivan6572]

The Carlos Boozer bigen hair was iconic.

[@fernandos4231]

I won $500 skipping school one day when parents were out of town playing NBA 2K7 with Amare and that Suns team. ah, the days. Therefore, Amare >

[@Qstorm88]

Niice!

[@andrewvelazquez8833]

That game and that year specifically and THAT TEAM specifically not only got me into 2k but basketball in general. They played like the warriors ten years before

[@fernandos4231]

Jordan S that was another team of mine you wouldn’t of wanted that

[@dataslul]

Cannot wait for the 2011 version of this, because I don't think it's a givent that Kyrie is the number 1 pick. The 2011 draft is also weirdly loaded in a lopsided, scattered sort of way; Kawhi went 15 and Jimmy Butler went 30. You can make a case they're the first and second picks.

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Amare pre injuries= best finisher in nba history lead the league in ‘And 1s a couple times shot around 80% FT along with one of the highest TS% of all time

[@russellst.martin4255]

Couple summers back I was playing an outdoor show and I looked up mid-song to Caron Butler standing in front of me. I was like holy crap, Caron Butler is watching me play drums right now.

[@philipcallado5693]

The Jay Williams thing continues to haunt me. Had an okay rookie season, but a lot of that was due to then coach Bill Cartwright trying to force 18-22 year olds to run the triangle, which even veterans struggled to get the hang of. Also instead of playing him and Jamal Crawford together for the entire season, they started Williams and had Crawford come off the bench for most of the season. They finally played them together late and of course the team improved. Williams worked his butt off that summer and was set to breakout that season, but it never happened. I think a lot of my Damian Lillard fandom is because he plays a lot like Jay Williams used to. There should be a 30 for 30 on Williams.

[@fortynights1513]

It says a lot about this draft that Simmons liked his upside enough (his career aside because of injury) to spend a pick on him.

[@philipcallado5693]

@@fortynights1513 this draft was brutal. After Amare, Yao and Boozer it falls off a cliff. I actually regard Prince higher than Nene and Butler.

[@jamesR1990]

Tuff Juice is still my all time favorite player. Loved when Dallas picked him up for the title

[@bdictjames]

Salmons is at least a couple of spots higher. He was a solid player, more than 15 PPG scorer for a couple of seasons with the Bucks and Bulls there.

[@nolegoat4603]

On bad teams, who cares how much he scored

[@bdictjames]

@@nolegoat4603 Bucks and Bulls were in the playoffs some of those years.. albeit in the East. He was a good player, like a Josh Howard type.

[@charleskummerer]

"Amar'e first obviously" Uhm... definitely not obviously.

[@WTFref2]

Charles Kummerer exactly. They are under rating how good Yao was when healthy, while overlooking how bad Amare was defensively.

[@charleskummerer]

WTFref2 yep, they basically gave bonus points to Amar’e because of his upside if he he didn’t get injured he’d have been much better. Apply that logic to Yao and you have a top 5 center all time lol

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

WTFref2 Yao made it out the 1st round once despite having More than enough talent around him to get out the 1st round smh this man made Carlos boozer look crazy mobile

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Charles Kummerer that ain’t No top 5 center Amare really was a generational talent people forget he had a micro fracture surgery and still came back top 2 most dominant big in the league with Dwight when Duncan/Shaq got older even swept Duncan in 2010

[@charleskummerer]

knicks fan Shaq himself said Yao scared him. I’m not trying to downplay Amar’e at all. He was a stud. I’m saying that they are underrating Yao

[@bookaufman9643]

I live here in Durham and back in the day I had season tickets along with my wife's family to the Blue Devils and Carlos Boozer was a great Duke player on a great Duke team. I still love that 2001 Duke team. If you look at Carlos in the pros you would say that he may be the least likely Duke player of all time. For a team famous for Bobby Hurley and Christian laettner and Grant Hill and even Shane Battier somehow Carlos Boozer really sticks out. Maybe the only former Duke player who was really known as a real enforcer / tough guy kind of NBA player. Seems more like a Georgetown guy.

[@DingoDIDeatmybaby]

Depends. Does Yao still play for China every offseason? If yes, then I'm going Stoudemire.

[@nuraby_9228]

The problem is that Yao wanted to play, and China is so shitty at basketball without Yao that they needed him to spend his offseason playing in D-tier FIBA Asia tournaments like "The East Asian regional" and have him carry them against teams like Macao, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Guam.

[@ltrigga219]

“Foxhole coin flip” is an amazing term. Thank you.

[@stevesteve0521]

Nene over Caron Butler already makes this redraft a joke.

[@razkable]

haslem dropping behind dunleavy as well was a joke imo...he is borderline next to nene and just a hair behind him and a little bit behind prince ..it should of gone 4th butler 5th prince 6th nene 7th haslem and 8th dunleavy lets be real here...what did prince do greater than haslem?..they were both starters on finals teams but prince needed more minutes to get worse stats in total and nene had like one great season and dunleavy was just a bench scorer he was never a legit starter on a good team quality...butler was a stud when healthy from 2004-2011...I can argue haslem over nene I really could

[@stevesteve0521]

I like your rankings a whole lot better than theirs. I agree with you on prince yeah he made a couple nba all defensive teams but there was a reason the pistons had 4 all stars in 2006 and not 5. He was a solid 3 point shooter but not a good scorer, and his career really fizzled out once the pistons 2000s dynasty was over. In the case for Haslem at his peak he was a 12 point 9 rebound guy but it felt like he was giving you close to a double double every night. He had a really good 10 to 12 foot jump shot and he played a good role in the 2006 heat championship team. For a guy who played little to no minutes his last 5 nba seasons his career numbers of 8 points 7 rebounds and 1 block is pretty solid. Dunleavy was a good shooter who played no defense. He definitely didn’t live up to his 3rd pick hype he had about 2 decent to good seasons in his career with Indiana. I’ll compare him to a guy like Kyle korver but that’s just an insult to korver who’s a better and more efficient shooter. The nene and Haslem comparison is tricky because neither guys were all star guys but pretty solid starters at their peak. Haslem was a better rebounder and defender but nene was much more aggressive and reliable on offense. At the end though with Haslem’s longevity with the heat he’ll end up being the more memorable player.

[@roycema]

Chris always drafts poorly in everything

[@bon-chan7197]

That was funny thanks for the joke

[@Bikegod1]

Bill is contractually obligated to drop Antwan Jamison' name

[@chipogles7639]

Y’all could’ve skipped this we all know 2003 is about to be a banger

[@gifted1552]

I got to play against Amare "STAT" in HS he was no doubt NBA ready then!!!!!!!!

[@TomAndersonn]

I played with him in middle school, he was ready then too!

[@Buttington_Headerson]

I believe you. You from the O?

[@gifted1552]

@@Buttington_Headerson I have no need to lie, Its not a big deal it was high school lol .. Im from south florida. Went to Majory Stoneman Douglas (Parkland ,Fl) But it was a winter tournament "Orlando Shoot Out" It was Amare and a Freshman Darious Washington form Orlando Edge Water that were the two dominant guys

[@TomAndersonn]

@@gifted1552 I believe you but you have to believe me too!

[@gifted1552]

@Jackson Gilmore Unfortunately, the shooting took place long after I graduated in 2003

[@iscomoura7610]

I WAITED SO DAMN LONG FOR THIS HHAHAHA KEEP IT COMING

[@stevesteve0521]

Tough to choose between Yao or Amare because both guys careers were destroyed by injuries. I’ll still end of going with Yao just because he had a huge impact in basketball in general but stoudamire had the better career and was honestly the better player.

[@Irfanhill]

I would have taken Scola above Dunleavy, better peak and could even have done more in the NBA given what he did with Argentina. Great team player, very high basketball IQ. But I concess his NBA career was kind of short. Really not a good draft, especially after the first 2 players.

[@andu1854]

As a Dubs fan who hates Chris Cohen and all the incompetent morons he hired, I whole heartedly agree, I didn’t like the Dunleavy pick at all, Felt he was kinda slow, not very athletic, and when he didn’t have Jay Williams and the rest of that loaded Duke teams …

[@ogmike2010]

god i love this channel

[@gaborkiss650]

"Drew Gooden, he played 30 minutes a game for the 2007 NBA Finalist Cleveland Cavaliers putting up 11 & 8." Yes Bill, that happened. LeBron beat the Pistons with that team.

[@tonyschimmoeller]

He actually averaged 13 and 8 during that series on 50% from the field on 27 mpg. Considering he held Duncan to 18 on 45% I'd say he was pretty good that series.

[@AirCanada1J5]

Spent a little bit too much time on Carlos Boozer 😃

[@razkable]

in this draft boozer was 2nd in points 4th in assist 3rd in blocks and 1st in rebs by a lot..he deserved it

[@matthewgarcia7654]

Ever since Boozer joined my Bulls hes been one of my more memorable non superstar guys...I enjoyed the time they gave Boozer

[@mjlj2599]

Wow, I never realized the Philly or Philly area guys in this draft....Flip Murray, Rasual Butler (RIP), Dajuan Wagner and John Salmons

[@Cotswolds1913]

Tayshaun Prince should at the very least be #4. I'd take him #3

[@firstorder438]

I would have taken him 3 Butler and Nene over him is laughable.

[@Cotswolds1913]

@First Order Totally agree.

[@AgusleoHalim]

I thought Udonis was drafted in 2003?

[@Michigan_dad]

So underrated need more views!!

[@misternogood]

Chris Webber at his peak, and in his average, was significantly better than Amare lol

[@1995Rebel]

I agree they were both dogs but webb had a little more pure talent. Regardless I feel like amare over yao is brazy

[@rsoissong]

Yeah Amar'e over Webber is nuts. Webber was a 20+/10/4-5 guy in his prime and he did it for 9-10 years. Amar'e was explosive offense and rebounds. No defense, no facilitating.

[@misternogood]

@@rsoissong plus webber's best four years are better than Amar'e, and he had deeper playoff runs and was the best player on those teams. Of this entire series that might have been the worst take lol

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

misternogood amare averaged 25+ 3 diff times with insane FG/TS% webber only averaged over 25 once and whatever u say about amare playing with Nash why no one mentions Karl Malone having Stockton?? Kemp having Payton?? Blake having CP3? Webber was a choke artist as well never wanted that pressure in the playoffs

[@guillermovazquez1084]

Webber was a better passer than Amare

[@shorafarahani]

love how Nash gets dogged by so many (thankfully Bill is not one of them)... but EVERY player would show their true potential on that "Suns" team!

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Bullshit

[@FlyNavy906]

Holy crap the early 2000s drafts before 2003 were just garbage.

[@SuperMisteryMan01]

There is a lot of great players tho in these drafts don’t just get lost comparing them to Lebron or Dwade

[@tyleru96]

Idk. 2001 had some studs in it. Gasol and Tony Parker, for starters, to go along with the likes of Tyson Chandler, Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, and Gilbert Arenas. Not a garbage draft, by any means. The reality is that most guys who get drafted end up having forgettable careers, if they even manage to stick around in the league.

[@matthewgarcia7654]

These are lacking bonafide superstars but 2002 and the few before had incredible value

[@LeeGHThomas]

Cute exercise but Yao wasn’t going to be allowed to come to the nba unless he went first overall, and injuries aside he was a substantially better player than amare

[@Cotswolds1913]

No he wasn't, put him on the Suns in place of Amare and they are a worse team. Ditto for a majority of examples.

[@LeeGHThomas]

Evan Harriman yao nash pick and roll would have been better, and hell hes a hell or a lot better match up for the lakers so maybe they win a title after all. Glad to know you didnt watch any pre-broke foot yao though.

[@casualfandestroyer2503]

Thomas Lee no way Amare just as skilled as Yao with a lethal 1st step and hops Yao was just taller not better he couldn’t guard outside the post/rim either Amare always made big plays in big moments always electrified his team/crowd energy with any dunk

[@Cotswolds1913]

@@LeeGHThomas Did you actually just say Yao+Nash pick and roll would have been better? Rofl

[@LeeGHThomas]

knicks fan ok “knicks fan” thanks for your unbiased opinion

[@broncobilly4029]

Jay Williams is all or nothing. If he doesn't get hurt, he's a top 5 pick. If he does, he's not drafted.

[@igotchabeanpie439]

Gotta keep doing these

[@exprezzion]

Joe House: great face-voice combo, a real life cartoon

[@monkeyinalamborghini]

Honestly with a lot of big men their window is early not late. With 1-3 you can draft a guy and with luck he'll only get better. Once guys start getting over 6'8" you might have 5-7 years and after they're not playing above the rim or if they don't have a old man game their best days are behind them.

[@juanjaramillo96]

If I'm not wrong, Butler was the first guy drafted here with a ring. That's crazy. He also didn't play.

[@jackjr2673]

Tayshaun Prince thought: So the Pistons were getting our butt handed to use via Magic/Tracy Mcgrady and Like we had no answer for T-Mac and Rick Carlisle finally put Tayshaun on T-Mac and it changed the whole series. If I remember correctly the Pistons were down 3-1 and came back and won that series, that was his coming-out party.

[@vanslang5385]

Anyone remember Boozer rocking the spray on hair when he played for Chicago? He looked like a LEGO man😆

[@flypballer]

Plead do a bunch more of these.

[@johnnytimestamp8224]

Heres mine before watching: 2002 draft Yao, Amare, Tayshaun prince carlos boozer caron butler *Jay williams matt barnes drew gooden nene mike dunleavy luis scola fred jones kareem rush

[@mike04574]

Where’s the 2003 redraftables? Was it deleted?

[@the_auditor1017]

Cleveland maybe wins the Finals if they bring in Amare at the trade deadline in 2010. And who knows maybe Lebron never leaves