2012 WKC, Italy - Men Teams Final - match 3

2012 WKC in Novara, Italy - Men Teams Final - match 3

[@macavity-ql8hp]

Even though I am Japanese and have done Kendo since I was junior high school , I cannot understand why Korean player's Hiki Kote was not Ippon even he did Zanshin. So I think if he had been a little more polite at least in this game , every Kendo player might watch this game more happily ... Finally, I respect Korean Player 's Kendo! I am looking forward to another more good World Kendo Convention!

[@6shige9]

I think that majority of people must get annoyed by the audience booing more than the judges.

[@tubeaccmhaaa]

thansk a lot for the answer and explanation! and I appreciate your work on youtube!

[@iranmvak]

Dear KW, thanks for the videos! But can you fix this one so it shows shodai's do at full speed as well?

[@sungyoungha8458]

Okay, there's quite a lot of controversy on this one. I personally hate Korea vs Japan matches in sports because of so much unnecessary competition, and always want a fair match, but I have heard many claims, even from Japanese senseis that the referees do tend to favor Japan a bit. Personally, I think that the point criteria of the WKC itself is, ironically, a bit unconventional. But of course, the booing is absolutely not something you should do, and I'm pretty embarrassed myself. I really think that all countries participating, especially Korea and Japan should reflect on themselves and make the biggest world kendo competition what it should be like. For the validity of the Kote, I think that the WKC's criteria for a valid Kote is only when it's struck when the opponent is raising the kote, in other words, when the kote is pressed down(like a debana kote), and if that's the case(I think the WKC tends to weigh the process and chance of the strike more than how strongly and accurately the strikes actually connect), I don't have any objections, but I really think the scoring criteria should be refined, or at least be unified among the judges. Personally, I think those were beautiful points which would have cut right through if it was a real katana, and I heard from some 8-dan japanese senseis that they would have given the point too. But really, most professional Korean kendo players do this for life, and in order to be scouted into good teams on good conditions, whether they win or not is quite important for them. So it becomes really hard to treat kendo entirely as a martial art. I won't say too much, mostly because I don't know the details, but what I'm saying is that even though the attitude of the Korea team should really become more sophisticated, please cut them some slack and encourage them to do so rather than insult them. I really hope that kendo will bring the world together, not create another fight :)

[@andreaaiazzi4501]

I agree with you. In my opinion Korea need to accept that if they participate in competitions held by the WKC they need to accept the rules. Their attitude is obscene at those levels and gives a bad example. The booing crowd also was shameful. People are sick of the fact that shinpans still feel they need to favor japanese competitors but they can't act like that

[@pedrohm706]

Sung Young Ha, Said criteria does not exist! There is no excuse, the shinpan failed to demonstrate competence, and that is the ultimate truth to me. Kendo is one, and shiai rules are the same whether you are fencing in Italy, Japan, Korea, you name it (apart from formalities like sonkyo and flog colours which are different in Kumdo). Both hiki kote were clean, and there is absolutely no reason for them to not have been awarded ippon. It is very shameful to see such terrible refereeing at this level of Kendo. I am biased towards Japan, and I still completely agree with the Korean fencer's behaviour and the crowd's too in this point, I must admit. Years and years of training are committed from both sides, only for them to then be unfairly judged within a space of 5 minutes? Sounds very unreasonable to me.

[@soyellowsoviolent]

glad to see shodai in kendo scene again. he is faster than ever

[@KendoWorld]

Can reach further, but it is normally only done from jodan stance (as he does in the video). That competitor is Shodai, arguably the best jodan fighter in the world.

[@andresmdc78]

That do strike done by JPN was beautiful. I like how SK helped JPN up but after that I felt like he lost proper etiquette. Other than that, great match. They our both very skilled.

[@BenEmberley]

If you look at the slow-motion replay from the other side, you'll see it's not really on target.

[@kanekikirigaya3346]

I love the sportsmanship korea showed its a shame if korea was treated unfair because of the Japanese kendoka in the favor of most the korean scored really great points the should have counted.

[@84TheAce]

When an attack take you close to the opponent, you can attack with a strike from this close position, by putting your body wide from him. So in this phase you have to be in alert exactly as you are in "normal position", 'cause you can give and receive attacks.

[@macduuuuuux]

The judges did their job alright. They deserved more credit than they got. Some of the calls in the other matches that looked contentious actually looked obvious on slow motion. Good on them.

[@JPBelanger]

Well, I don't think we'll agree on this, as the video doesn't show where his kote was or at what angle it was struck. The shimpan with the best view is the one that gave the point, and he's the only one to have scored the men in the taisho match (Takanabe's men was picture perfect). He also refused kote in the first match. He was, in my opinion, the best judge out there.

[@Lodoss3800]

真剣ならば致命傷に至った完全たる胴でしたね。 これほど見事な胴はなかなかない！

[@user-vz9md7rr5k]

俺はやっぱり正代先生大好きです

[@user-tm6jf1up7r]

龍虎 龍虎 やっぱり カッコいいですよね！ 僕は正代選手のような上段になれるように今頑張っています 同じ 剣道をしている者として頑張りましょう！

[@deadswordsman]

It actually will :)

[@tubeaccmhaaa]

this sure was nice to look at, without knowing too much about Kendo... why did the Japanese take his right hand off the shinai so often?

[@tubeaccmhaaa]

why not?

[@JPBelanger]

That said, this match gave us the only moment of sportsmanship of the entire final: at 3:00, when the korean player helps the japanese player off the floor. This does not excuse the first two korean players absolutely dreadful behaviour, but it's good to see that their sentiment was not the only sentiment that there was.

[@DONKMCLEAN]

3:09 = awesome

[@_milova_]

oh man, such a raucous crowd!!

[@ddabali78]

You're right. It is not Boxing game

[@silkyjohns0n]

People complaining about the referee decisions should turn their attention instead to the crowd. I was there as a competitor, and there were two sections of the crowd behind the judging tables that really let them selves down. Along with a fair few on the competitors side..... those referees are the top of the top. End of story.

[@user-vc3yy9ud9k]

韓国の選手強い。 引き胴や小手も一本にしていい打ちがあった。 試合の荒らさはいいけど、勝負が着いたら潔く納めれば100点なのにな…

[@AgoNyShinya]

that's how you play kendo!

[@user-atpjttmmjjm]

袴くらいちゃんとしたの履いてほしい。

[@justilyou]

cos it is not a sword fighting, kendo is supposed to be something to discipkine your mental or heart or the soul.

[@virtualsleeep]

There seems to be confusion on whether that is a valid kote or not. If you search youtube for "a rare kote on jodan" you can see another instance in a japanese competition where the exact same kote was given. Migi kote is always a valid target, the chudan rule applies only to hidari kote. The shinpan on the far right gave it twice which was the right call in my opinion. He also made all the right calls in every match compared to the other two.

[@andreaaiazzi4501]

when kote is kept attached to the Do it would be impossible to cut it so it's considered not valid. That's was I have been told during my kendo practice btw, and it makes sense also because there's no opportunity as well as it is intentionally defensive.

[@pedrohm706]

Andrea Aiazzi That is simply incorrect. It would be probably impossible to score while going forwards because you would inevitably scrap the dou with the tip most likely, leading to a scrappy zanshin (though if you did somehow manage to do a clean cut, I don't see why ippon shouldn't be given). With hiki waza though, it is completely different, and we can see that the korean fencer hit 2 perfectly clean kote even though Shodai was embracing his dou. There is absolutely no rule stating that this shouldn't be scored, like you mentioned, so I have no idea why people are arguing in favour of the decision of the shinpan.

[@DiscordOfDave]

I know this is a four year old comment, but I’ve heard the exact same thing. Both kote are targets when you go into jodan. As a jodan player, my sensei warned me of that exact thing. He himself has been a jodan player for over twenty years. I don’t know where people are getting their info from.

[@TheMissingno]

Right, no matter where the kote is you have to hit with monouchi for it to be ippon... If the kote is against his doh, then it is impossible to hit with monouchi.

[@84TheAce]

at 1:59, i think that was an ippon... i was there... it s a difficult rule application, i don t know why but it's not clear the answer to this situation.

[@6shige9]

3:04 Pushing men instead of body with arms isn't okay. It happens with anyone. However, anyone should know that's not okay.

[@AgoNyShinya]

Yes. that is the match between japan and korea. :)) we all know what is going to happen.

[@macduuuuuux]

I guess those kotes may have been allowed in Kumdo. But pity this was the World KENDO Championships.

[@sgwolp]

Do their manoveurs really correspond with traditional Kendo rules?

[@kanekikirigaya3346]

and the kote korea landed was beautiful and should have counted.

[@JPBelanger]

The kote strike is actually allowed, as per the IKF rules. It was taught at the Kitamoto international seminar. It was a terrible non-call. By the way, one of the KENDO judges scored it.

[@bushidobullet]

the problem is that is nearly impossible hitting that kote clearly without touching the do too

[@user-rn8hd8fl6r]

これ審判はどこの国の人なの？

[@mkpomeroy]

well he hit his right kote....,

[@Lodoss3800]

kote which is not effective The crowd cannot understand.

[@macduuuuuux]

yes. It should be and would be called if the Kote was hanging away from the doh.

[@vulm300406]

真劍的長度跟竹劍的長度是不同的 事實上雖然最前端擊中但是是不會被定義成集中的 以我學劍道的記憶，竹劍靠近前端的第二的白點才是真劍的長度 如有錯請麻煩修正討論，謝謝

[@funnyface8029]

+蕭禹安 學劍道連中節皮是甚麼都不知道? 第一句更是令人傻眼

[@vulm300406]

+Meng-Lin HSU 謝謝嚴厲指教 我的認知是一般的日本刀沒有到118公分那麼長 但是我不是專業 講出來的話很傻眼希望你能體諒

[@leo19441895]

老實說我學劍道到現在基本動作大隻小隻初端我都會了，我不知道你們說什麼@@?我只知道反正中節會跑掉，移到前1/3就好

[@user-jz2nt9sr7i]

現代人很容易爆怒爆氣...呵呵!!

[@user-zq4ww6bb9i]

Чего уж воют. смысл иппон давать за отрубание руки, которая оружия не держит

[@JLee1293]

refs obviously favored the Japanese player.

[@user-zv2iw1br1z]

박병훈 선수 화이팅~~~~~!

[@TheMissingno]

I don't see what everyone was booing about... It looks like his kote was touching his doh. No way the Korean player could have hit with the monouchi as long as Shodai's kote was up against his doh.

[@hakurei0191029]

ブーイングとかやかましいわ

[@ArisgawaHana]

손목 득점 인정이 왜 안된걸까요.심판 한 명은 올렸다는건 득점 인정이 맞는 것 같은데 왜 나머지 둘은 인정하지 않았을까요. Why referees does not admit the point that Korean player achieved? I think one referees put his flag up, so it is admittable and the korean player hit the rights point. Is this cheating or what.

[@Yagi.B]

Shodai's gyaku-do BEST 15WKC ippon! EPIC!

[@Scoodlezz]

i wouldn't want to meet a kendo don in a dark ally if he has any sort of stick like object lol let alone a boken

[@7.5.]

1:58　これで一本じゃないのはおかしい

[@JIN1103JIN]

It looks like his kote was touching his doh. No way the Korean player could have hit with the monouchi as long as Shodai's kote was up against his doh.

[@Mrakoplasz]

Yeah, and what? Basketball or soccer won't save you either or will it? Kendo is not an art of self-defense, so no, it won't help you when you get attacked. Because that's not its purpose, get it?

[@user-ux2ts8ok8p]

상단세는 한손 놓으면 무적이 되는 것인가..

[@az_eagle]

오른손을 갑에 붙이고 왼손을 저렇게 하고있으면 역허리가 완전히 비어버리는 치명적인 약점이 존재합니다. 우리나라 특성상 심판분들이 역허리를 잘 인정 안해주시는데 저런 자세 혹은 와이퍼 자세로 유명한 머리부터 허리까지 다 막는 자세에서 역허리를 치면 왠만해서는 들어주십니다. 하지만 박병훈 선수가 역허리를 안치는 이유는 3:52 초 즈음 영상을 보시면 조금만 타격하려고 죽도를 내리면 바로 편수 머리를 날려버리는 괴물인지라 역허리를 시도 안한겁니다.

[@MatheusRebelo]

the fact is that the shinpan favorited the Japan...

[@KendoWorld]

You dont do it to look like you're sword fighting :)

[@user-kw7te6vr9n]

荒すぎる

[@nokubi01]

だから嫌なんだ。世界大会は。ブーイングとか選手の態度とか腹が立つ。

[@58TAKAO]

かばい手をいくら打っても駄目なんだよ 有効打突にはならない

[@vj6569]

それが韓国の選手には理解できなかったのでしょうね。kumdoでは1本と認められるのでしょう。私個人的には、上段のそれ、中段側からしたら面を竹刀でかばって片手で胴を隠し、突きしか打つところなくなるので、ずるいなぁと思っていたこともあり、十分な打ちであれば「有り」の方が公平な気がします。

[@user-qv5wp1kc3l]

@@vj6569 知ったかすんな

[@xxgoodideaxx]

Wow, Sodai sensei is great...the first do strike was pretty awesome! I (from my non-experienced view) really felt that it was really hard for park sensei to digest that two straight strikes to the kote don't cost an ippon. I do also believe that the booing was absolutely stupid. The Shimpan make their calls according to their own experience and shouldn't be booed at. But , I do think that a Shimpan's kendo could be questioned if he doesn't make a necessary call. Anyway, I

[@user-vq3ld4bw9p]

한국 선수 너무잘했다...

[@manekata01]

上段の人はさすがだな。 白いのはひどいな。

[@t1737567]

手を差し伸べた韓国チームの人がかっこよく見えるのは、「ジャイアン映画版の原理」。 みんな頭を冷やすんだｗ

[@TheGalaxy625]

일본 선수가 진득하게 플레이 하네 ...

[@valushka21]

Unfortunately, it won't help you if you got attacked on the way home late night

[@soulrebooting6234]

왜 아유를 하냐...저기 대부분 검도인일텐데 사무라이다운 면모좀 보여라

[@user-co5nh4bs9o]

外野がうるさい

[@abbhuse]

I think kendo is not competition Audience should shut up but this is great match

[@soulrebooting6234]

에휴...

[@user-li2hz3kx8e]

韓国の選手とか結構叩かれてる割にはなかなか強いし惜しい打突かなり多いよなww

[@user-atpjttmmjjm]

中学生かおのれらは、竹刀粗末にあつかうな。

[@user-zv6in5kd6o]

烏天狗こま 冗談の構えも知らないにわかに喋る権利があると思うな

[@lemon6008]

上段

[@user-fo1mc2wr1l]

韓国の選手のコテありでしょう

[@JIN1103JIN]

It looks like his kote was touching his doh. No way the Korean player could have hit with the monouchi as long as Shodai's kote was up against his doh.

[@user-gv7xx7xu2s]

剣道のけの字も知らないような輩が剣道をやって欲しくないし、見て欲しくもない。「剣道」という武道をなめないで欲しい。

[@user-mz7bs5fe1c]

韓国の選手は一生懸命練習してるからのこの動きでしょう。半端ではない