202 - Kursk, When Titans Clash - July 9, 1943

[@WorldWarTwo]

Join the TimeGhost Army: bit.ly/WW2_202_PI This is part one of a two part weekly episode, stay tuned for more! We're only able to tackle huge events like this because of all of you in the TimeGhost Army, so go sign up!

[@alexmclean760]

38 mins late lol my bad

[@ViridianDelta]

@@alexmclean760 Same. Damn it.

[@guillaumedeschamps1087]

Curse my lateness!

[@greg_mca]

Can the week by week regular episode playlist be updated again please. The episodes after mid march are out of order and there's a WAH episode in there for some reason

[@caryblack5985]

After that joke I am not surprised you hung up.

[@febrian0079]

The time when Zhukov said "it Zhukin time" and Zhuked the German army was one of the moment in military history

[@Spiderfisch]

But it only happens next year

[@WorldWarTwo]

Please refrain from using the verb 'Zhuked' because I feel bad for laughing at it. Also no spoilers

[@pocketmarcy6990]

He Zhuked the German army back in November as well

[@leeboy26]

Not before he punched the Sith Inquisitor in the stomach whilst shouting 'Not today'!

[@ziashaikh2683]

It's Zhorphin time!

[@Rbdpng]

It's crazy to think but when this war started, I had just graduated high school and was just starting university. Now I am an Aerospace Engineer working full time more than 500 miles from where I was born and raised. Reflecting on the huge milestones I've seen come and go in that time really puts the length of this conflict into perspective. Thank you for this incredible living exhibit.

[@stormstaunch6692]

@Christopher DeHart I can relate. I’ve been following this channel ever since I was a 12 year old. Now I’m going to be going to 11th grade next year, and by the time this series is over, I’ll be old enough to vote. It’s cool how time passes.

[@pbibbles]

When I was going for my BS in mechanical engineering some friends and I took a class called "Gas Turbines." We assumed that it was based on ground-based electrical-energy producing gas turbines. It turned out to be an aerothermodynamics based on jet aircraft. At first we were disappointed, but as class went on we all turned out to love it. I went on to take gas dynamics too, and loved it as well. Unfortunately, that was as deep as my school went with aeronautics/aerospace. Are you satisfied so far with your experience in aerospace, or are there any regrets about feeling pigeonholed?

[@SMichaelDeHart]

@Christopher DeHart may I ask where you're from?? I'm in southern West Virginia. My parents were from southwestern Virginia and southern West Virginia. I've got family in West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina.

[@Rbdpng]

@@pbibbles I certainly don’t feel pigeonholed. Airplanes and rocket have always been my passion (well that and history). If you want to work with either then a BS in aerospace is your ticket in

[@Rbdpng]

@@SMichaelDeHart amazing last name! Very rare to see a DeHart. I was raised around Charleston SC and now I live in northern VA

[@Bass_Playa_Two_Point.O]

A friend of mine who was a dentist served as a field medic during the battle of Kursk and was blown up/buried in an aid station dugout by either German aircraft or artillery, he didn't know which. He spent about 3 months in recovery and then they sent him to the medical complex for his dental training (in Minsk, I believe) where he met his future wife who was also training to be a dentist. I wrote a short biographical sketch of his life from Barbarossa to the end of the war.R.I.P. Sacha.

[@todornikolov2606]

can i see hes biographical sketch?

[@Bass_Playa_Two_Point.O]

@@todornikolov2606 I'll have to pull it up from my library of writings. I don't have it on my phone but when I get back to the office this coming Monday I'll see if there's some way to send it to you.

[@KingofHumility]

@@Bass_Playa_Two_Point.O please post it here for all of us to enjoy!

[@alexeipistoun9783]

Please send it to me as well

[@ieuanhunt552]

@@Bass_Playa_Two_Point.O It would be really neat if you could post it here

[@lawrencehudson9939]

Your narration of the beginning of the Kursk battle was excellent teaching me much. The detail of battery mounting in Ferdinans and Tigers was an issue I had not learned from any of the armor channels on these tanks. Well done I always like learning.

[@morteforte7033]

All the problems with the panthers didn't help either...from the start of the offensive to two days later, they went from 184 operational panthers to just 40.

[@Conn30Mtenor]

@@morteforte7033 All weapon systems, especially tanks, have a teething period where all the various systems have a had a chance to be used and their flaws made known in operational conditions. The Germans were as aware of this fact as anyone but they still went ahead. Insane.

[@tigertank06]

Could the Germans have won at Kursk?

[@morteforte7033]

@@Conn30Mtenor very true, but I ponder if 184 proven panzer IVs, or a mix of those and tigers,would have had far more impact than the unproven Panthers. The fascinating part of history, how strange consequences change events.

[@morteforte7033]

@@tigertank06 like many other battles during the war,I figure they could have....but I doubt it would have changed their ability to win eventually.

[@chazzerman286]

Some trivia on Kula Gulf: the Niizuki of radar-carrying fame was commissioned into the IJN on March 31st 1943. It sank approximately 14 weeks later making it one of the shortest-lived warships in all of WW2.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks Chompsky, great piece of info

[@mjpraetorian4386]

​@@davidw.2791 Finished in 36-8 period sank in 40-41

[@mjpraetorian4386]

@@davidw.2791 Ah no wozz. Thank the Sabaton History channel for it.

[@dougedsall3317]

The Panzerjäger Ferdinand did not have a mounted machine gun at this time, but the crews were issued with a loose MG 34, and MPs for defense of the vehicle. The Ferdinand has numerous pistol ports around it's fighting compartment for using these in addition to the hatches. Glad you guys mentioned the mines; the majority of the lost Ferdinand's were directly to mine damage or artillery fire Karl Heinz Munch has written good combat histories with the individual losses tallied. Also worth remembering that huge numbers of early StuG and other Panzerjäger also lacked mounted MGs

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for the info, Doug

[@lordbeaverhistory]

The Majority of the Ferdinads were blown up by their crews because the engine broke down, while driving a normal road or climbing a minor hill

[@gunman47]

A footnote this week on July 5 1943 is that the town of Boise City in Oklahoma in the United States is mistakenly bombed by a United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) B-17 Flying Fortress bomber during a training mission. The mistake happened because the pilots mistook the lights centred around the town’s main square as their practice target when they became disoriented during their practice mission. Fortunately, no one was injured with little damage as the main square was deserted when it happened and only practice bombs were used.

[@TrickiVicBB71]

I remember that from History Guy

[@totalwar1793]

Imagine some guy getting hit on the head by a practice bomb lol

[@420JackG]

Oh gosh, that's right. I've driven through there and I think there was a plaque or something.

[@davidwright7193]

So the bombs landed as close to the target as was usual for the USAF….

[@WorldWarTwo]

Dickson Phua Fascinating piece of historical trivia, thank you

[@901Sherman]

It's a helluva journey....and to think we're barely at the halfway point. Glad to see this channel's going strong as always(;

[@Zen-sx5io]

There's a lot more of hell to go through.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

We're actually past the halfway point by about 10 months. Which is still crazy to think about. Seems like yesterday I was getting recommended the Great War series.

[@AwoL205]

halfway point in actual time but it's already over for the Germans at this point and it all starts to dawn on them, if not by now then within the next few weeks for sure

[@AtomikNY]

@@AwoL205 Depends on which German you ask. Hitler reportedly didn't acknowledge that reality until the final days of the war.

[@himoffthequakeroatbox4320]

When Italy collapses the Allies will be in through the back door and it's game over. Christmas at the latest.

[@ADT1995]

On the fields of Prokorovka, Summer 1943, the tanks lined up in thousands, as far the eye can see

[@herrkommandant1876]

Ready for the onslaught Ready for the fight Waiting for the axis To march into their trap

[@peterspatling3151]

Mines have been placed in darkness, in the cover of the night

[@jancisbmb]

Waiting to be triggered, when the time is right

[@kemarisite]

Sabaton. Of course. "Thunder in the east", an echo from Attack of the Dead Men in the previous war.

[@todornikolov2606]

sabaton!!!!

[@elbeto191291]

I like Eriksen's paragraph quoted by Indy on this one; romantizing in some kind the, IMO, "weird beauty of both German and Soviet war machines deploying" while reminding the reader that this is war and soldiers on both sides were getting wounded and dying by the thousands. Such a nice episode this one, I find myself astonished by the sheer scale of the Battle of Kursk

[@squirreljenkins1542]

The air battle alone is utterly insane.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching, elbeto

[@rickhobson3211]

I think that this is the battle that really let the Germans know the jig was up. Really curious to see how it develops!

[@420JackG]

I'm pretty sure that after Stalingrad, the route at Midway, and the loss of N. Africa (and the utter collapse of the Italian Army) that the handwriting was on the wall plain enough for anyone with the sanity to read it.

[@eluc_s2510]

@@420JackG Not much sanity to go around in the Axis powers

[@102ndsmirnov7]

@@420JackG I doubt the Germans had much faith in the Italians and I don't think they cared much for what happened in the pacific. Most German Generals probably knew the war was lost by the end of Stalingrad at the latest.

[@lllordllloyd]

@@projectpitchfork860 Yes, Kursk itself wasn't too bad, but the series of massive blows the Red Army delivered... almost continuously... afterward, were devastating. But as the OP said, clearly many on the German side suspected Kursk would NOT be decisive, but just expose the Germans' weakness.

[@jtgd]

@@projectpitchfork860 yeah, but the Russians can replace those losses. The German much less so

[@petorian343]

So this episode was delayed to immerse us, and show how much Operation Citadel was itself delayed, right?

[@elektrotehnik94]

Comment of the day :D

[@larslundandersen7722]

It was probably just delayed, because they wanna space out videos just a little bit. The Special video, the WAH video and now this dropped within what 24 hours. It is good channel maintenance to let them get some attention, before another video is released. Although i get what you were trying to say ;)

[@WorldWarTwo]

Yes that is correct. We are continuing in Michael Haneke's traditon of breaking the fourth wall 😂

[@Sean_Coyne]

Coincidentally, almost to the day, the last Royalist army was destroyed in the Battle of Langport on 10 July 1645, during the first English Civil War...by the New Model Army.

[@420JackG]

That's the series we really need

[@420JackG]

@@davidw.2791 that makes it even better

[@kevinsullivan2341]

@@420JackG Audio only, but I highly recommend Mike Duncan's Revolutions podcast. I apologize for the months of your life it will take up

[@thanos_6.0]

Man! I can't believe we are already at the Battle of Kursk. THE turning point in the war in europe, where the axis armies went on full on defense from now on. It feels like yesterday, when Germany invaded Poland and started this horrible war. As always, I am very glad to support you via the Timeghost army.

[@worldwidewonders681]

I mean the turning point was already years earlier

[@102ndsmirnov7]

I'd say Stalingrad was the real turning point. Kursk was just a nail in the coffin.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

"went on full on defense from now on" Operation Doppelkopf and the Ardennes Offensive would like to know your location. Yeah, they weren't successful in their goals but they were still times when the Germans went on the attack.

[@zoomertoast3703]

@@102ndsmirnov7 I'd say the turning point of the war happened between late 1942 and early 1943 with Stalingrad, Guadalcanal and Operation Torch/Second battle of El Alamein being decisive allied victories in all three major theaters.

[@akhashdhillon2159]

I dont think that there ever was a turning point. Germany and the USSR were bound to get into a conflict at somepoint and they choses the best time - when the USSR was at its weakest. And look how that went.

[@rawchicken3463]

Some people were waiting nearly half an hour for this to start, wow

[@WorldWarTwo]

Our audience is steadfast, patient, and awesome.

[@razorboy251]

Everyone always focuses on Midway as the great Japanese naval defeat but the events of this week illustrate just how effective and professional the IJN continued to be.

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

Indeed, but it was, like the German army, a sharp scalpel made to perfection that once blunted in a war of attrition would never regain its former sharpness. The IJN never managed to recover from its losses and with the loss of each ship with its finely honed crew, the replacement and its never crew never became as good as what had been lost. And for every new ship that the Japanese managed to build and crew the US would produce and crew a multitude. 1943 saw the USN with only the Saratoga as its only operational aircraft carrier, by the end of the year they already had more then before the war and by 1944 it became a torrent.

[@stefanjoeres7149]

Sure but Midway was a huge battle stopping Japanese offensives actions in the Pacific and condemned them to a battle of attrition. No matter how good and effective they were, they had lost the initiative. Midway is an incredible example of how important intiative actually is.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Quite a succinct analogy, thank you.

[@tigertank06]

@@blockmasterscott And if the Japanese hadn’t?

[@Shymenyou]

New Model Army, those intro punts get better and better!

[@MightyAvengingLeo]

It's a really good bad pun.

[@bishop6218]

Indy already knows he's gonna burn in hell for that

[@WorldWarTwo]

😁

[@limonade7050]

Imagine being a German soldier on the eve of the offensive. Suddenly, 2 hours before you are set off to attack, the enemy starts an artillery barrage against your forces. Basically yelling you: We are ready and waiting for you.

[@greg_mca]

It's 2nd Marne all over again. And like 2nd Marne, they had to go forward anyway

[@lordbeaverhistory]

Its a quote from "Generation War" (Unsere Mütter unsere Väter): "They know that we are coming Wilhelm" "I know"

[@tapeesa2866]

Can’t wait! One of grandfathers fought in this battle, he piloted an IL-2

[@WorldWarTwo]

Tapeesa Thank you for sharing about him.

[@nikolajmadum8381]

Fantastic and captivating episode as always from you Indy :) I always been fascinated by the Battle of Kursk, it was a truly titanic battle.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks Nikolaj

[@thornshar]

I choose to believe that the "New Model Army" joke was about the British rock group as well as Cromwell's military. Indy seems the right age to have heard of them. :)

[@janiceduke1205]

"The German army is a machine, and machines can be broken! " Konstantin K. Rokossovskiy ​💯​✨​ (December 21, 1896 - August 3, 1968)

[@33z6i6]

Like the 5th Guards tank army? ;)

[@atheistyoda8915]

That reference, I understood.

[@gratius1394]

​@@33z6i6 Batov's boys did their part and their sacrifice is remembered.

[@Warmaker01]

@@33z6i6 Like the Hammer & Sickle being waved over Berlin.

[@33z6i6]

@@Warmaker01Oh, thats still a long way of burning T34...

[@LuGer212]

no matter how much I love to read about the 2nd world war, no matter how much I try to educate myself about it - when it comes to gripping, engaging delivery of the subject matter: Indy & team are the apex. much love from the Landsberg/Ammersee region over to you guys!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Lu Thank you for your very kind words of support. We appreciate it.

[@harpercharlie]

Awesome coverage! Thanks Mr. Neidell and team.

[@Nester42069]

The battle is raging once again

[@pauleohl]

For the benefit of those that did not understand the introductory phone call about Walter Model needing a new army, Oliver Cromwell's army that won the English Civil War in the 17th century was called the New Model Army.

[@MikeBison_]

I hope you guys talk about the ‘upgrades’ the Ferdinands get following the end of Citadel, and how the Germans made the incredibly intelligent decision of sending the newly upgraded Elefants to mountainous and rainy Italy

[@Masada1911]

This is going to be a big one

[@lllordllloyd]

Great work on those maps, fellows. Truly excellent.

[@WorldWarTwo]

lllordllloyd Thank you. The team works their butts off. Please join the TimeGhost Army so they can afford new butts for the next round of maps! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory

[@nogravitycn]

Thanks!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, L Y

[@Jorlaan42]

I legit had to pause for a moment after that new Model army joke, that got me.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, glad you liked it

[@rwm2986]

Well worth the extra day's wait - thank you!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you RWM!

[@conceptalfa]

You're real, real good om the WWII history, projecting it in such an increadibly interesting way!!! 👍👍👍

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you! 👍

[@Jwoods026]

Thank You TimeGhost Team for putting out great content. It feeds the"Beast" hungry for information on the minute details of this atrocious, yet interesting war.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Jwoods Thank you for watching. And the whole team really appreciates your kind words of support, please stay tuned

[@mjkelly9999]

The opening phone calls have been excellent. This episode is one of the best. (good writers!)

[@ericcarlson3746]

"the Great War" would have been better with Indy fielding a fake phone call every week from the tsarina Alexandra!

[@stokerino1905]

It's his exasperated gesture after putting the phone down that makes it. 😂

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you Marcus!

[@jmac5303]

Indy did yell him to do better last week.

[@bcvetkov8534]

I'm ecstatic to finally be here for the battle of Kursk. I had no clue this was happening at the same time as operation Husky either. Which is incredible. When I talk to my other history nerd friends we constantly debate the importance of certain battles. D-Day was big but Kursk was a whole new beast. I personally believe this was the most important battle in the war especially in the Eastern front. Not just because it was the largest tank battle in human history up until that point but because of how the Germans finally realizing how blatantly screwed they were in the long haul. The Germans fought their asses off here and would eventually score a 4:1 ratio of kills against Soviet armor and it still wasn't enough. If that wasn't enough to achieve victory, God help the other fronts. Ya know!?! Thanks again to Indy and the team for covering this.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Bcvetkov Thank you. Always will be debatable what the ultimate 'turning point' in the war was, but either way we're glad to bring this episode to such an immense audience of history enthusiasts. Thank you for watching

[@tc2851]

Greetings from 🇮🇪! Been following your channels since The Great War🤔😳😊. Great history, very well told and presented.

[@theoutlook55]

Ah, a fellow TGW viewer, eh? Those were fine days.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

Me too. Some of the highest quality content on KZbin.

[@dominatorN4]

TGW is still pretty good but without Indy it isn’t the same.

[@WorldWarTwo]

T C thanks for watching all this time, through both wars! Greetings to you my friend & please stay tuned 🇮🇪

[@flyhighsun1833]

Unbelievable stuff. Keep it up TG!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you! Our team busts their butts to produce this series, and your support helps us immensely. Stay tuned my friend

[@paauggie]

Absolutely fantastic - first time i've seen your channel and just brilliant to watch - liked and subscribed - thankyou for posting.

[@Ronald98]

You 100000% should watch the Stalingrad coverage and the Pearl Harbor mini series that they did, if you think this is amazing, then wait till you see those two! i highly recommend them!

[@420JackG]

Oh buddy, you are in for a treat. It really is a mind shattering binge watch... I always thought I understood the war, having grown up with access to lots of primary source material 'from the horse's mouth' as it were, but these guys remind me on a weekly basis how truly miniscule my knowledge is.

[@WorldWarTwo]

paauggie Thank you and WELCOME!! I'm always happy to greet a newcomer to our channel. Thanks for taking an interest in history & I hope you'll check out all our episodes and series up to this point in the war. We're already at July 1943, you have lots of content to catch up on if you want!

[@Crash103179]

Trivia: USS Helena is the last US surface combat ship larger than a destroyer sunk by the Japanese until USS Princeton during the battle of Leyte Gulf 10/24/44, 15 months later.

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

That sounds fantastic, unless if you're Japanese.

[@HaloFTW55]

I hope we get a special for the Battle off Samar. "Hold on boys, we're sucking them into 40mm range!"

[@Crash103179]

@Volksgrenadier Yes! Besides 4 escort carriers built on merchant hulls, the Indianapolis was the only other large American combatant actually sunk after the Princeton.

[@senorpepper3405]

​@Volksgrenadier leyte was before that

[@pbryan1967]

Absolutely love this channel.

[@WorldWarTwo]

We absolutely love you too, Paul. Thanks for exploring the war with us

[@rachelskit]

I’ve been waiting three years for this episode!!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for joining us, Thomas! I know the entire TimeGhost Army has been looking forward to our coverage of this, but we can't do it without your support! Join the TimeGhost Army today and help us make more of those specials! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory

[@Dustz92]

A couple of Movie recommendations for the Battle of Kursk: For the German POV, "Ein anderer Krieg (A Different War)", the second episode of the miniseries Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter (Generation War) (2013), often called the "German Band of Brothers". The second "episode" (with movie length) of this German miniseries is centered in the northern attack by the 9th Army (in particular the 292 infantry division, fighting at Ponyr), and does a pretty good job at depicting the hopelessness of the battle for the Germans. If you have to watch only one, watch this one as it's very well produced and directed. Period covered: May-September 1943 Historical accuracy: 4/5 - Pretty well done overall, although the depiction of Polish partisans has been controversial IMDB grade: 8.2/10 For the Soviet POV: "Proryv (The Fire Bulge)", the first episode of the film series Osvobozhdenie (Liberation) (1970). This film series released in 1970 is comprised of five films depicting the battles of the red army from 1943 to 1945. The first episode deals with the battle of Kursk, from the planning to the clash at Prokhorovka. Compared to the German POV film, it has a documentary feel, focusing almost exclusively in military matters depicting all major leaders and clashes. This one has shots with dozens of tanks rolling over the steppes if that's what you're looking for. Like most Soviet movies, is available for free in the Mosfilm youtube channel. Period covered: Early April-16 July 1943 Historical accuracy: 4/5 -As mentioned, it feels like a documentary at times, but some of the things shown are plain incorrect. IMDB grade: 7.6/10

[@duedman-alleswasknallt5775]

Man I just started watching that Russian movie and I'm already loving it! Thanks!

[@Rahel_Rashid]

Much thanks!

[@elektrotehnik94]

Soviet POV link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4vVkoBjiduFjqM

[@elektrotehnik94]

German POV: Piratebay friends, Piratebay... plenty of well-seeded torrents of this series there

[@elektrotehnik94]

Amazing recommendations, many thanks

[@HilaryGillesHMG]

Love the content fun little fact I might be mistaken but is that a captured Soviet La-5 Fighter plane at 7:30 it has German markings but it looks just like An La-5.

[@BestOfKillieFc]

80 Years later the 2nd battle of Kursk takes place

[@AtamiskxIx]

What an episode! Worth the wait and break in the streak! Job well done all!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Atamisk Thank you for your very kind words, your patience, and support.

[@davidsigalow7349]

This was an incredibly great episode - one of Indy's Finest Hours!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching, David!

[@AstroGremlinAmerican]

Excellent reporting of the battlefield action, heightened by the vest fighting desperately against the loud tie.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Astro Gremlin Thank you for watching

[@Tim-Sherer]

I'm sorry the map people had to work those 16 hour days. This is a very important episode, and was worth the long hours imo, thank you for the hard work :)

[@WorldWarTwo]

Tim Thanks for your kind words. Stay tuned for more

[@jedawgs]

Been waiting for this battle for years

[@WorldWarTwo]

We're glad to have you here with us as we explore it.

[@merdiolu]

Allied air commanders continued to make economical investments in their use of air power for the maintenance of air superiority. Spaatz and his subordinates in the NAAF made efficient use of their assets. While heavy and medium bombers struck airfields, often escorted by Spitfires from Malta or P-40s and P-38s from North Africa, fighter-bomber sorties patrolled the island for the hidden landing grounds used by Axis aircraft to avoid these potentially devastating raids. The difficulties experienced by the defending Axis air formations have been well documented. The German fighter force made one final attempt to intervene. General Galland attempted to concentrate three fighter wings on a single airfield in an effort to hit Allied bombers en-mass. While there was an element of risk involved, he felt that some effort had to be made instead of allowing fighter strength to dissipate. The result was extremely heavy air fighting. Technical Sergeant Robert S. Lash, a clerk flying his first mission as an observer with the 2nd Bombardment Group described the air battle on Independence Day 1943. During the raid on Catania aerodrome: “[F]ighters were raising hell. On several occasions I would be safe in saying that every plane [B-17] was sending bullets at fighters - most vivid 4th of July I’ve ever seen, with tracers all over the sky, a formation of bombers, fighters darting in and out and black puffs all around. The fighters followed for 40 minutes, then it ended rather abruptly.” On 5 July, the German concentration meant that the Gerbini complex of landing grounds became an ideal carpet bombing target as the whole plain was covered with aircraft. The ensuing air battle was a disaster for the Luftwaffe. The formation of fighters that managed to intercept the bombers turned out to be too small to deal with escorting fighters. Luftwaffe fighter commander Ulrich Steinhoff, who had already lost a pair of Bf 109s to bombing, was shot down by a Spitfire near Mount Etna. NAAF records indicate that while 100 German fighters were encountered during this first wave, a second wave bombed Gerbini without notable interference. Allied raids stretched Axis fighter defences to their limits. The Regia Aeronautica also suffered heavily during this period. For instance, on 5 July Allied efforts caused the deaths of two of the three leading Italian aces, Franco Lucchini and Leonardo Ferrulli. Super Aereo (Regia Aeronautica high command) statistical returns for the 18 May to 9 July period indicate that Italian bomber strength dropped by 122 aircraft while fighter strength also dropped by 39 aircraft. Bomber serviceability tumbled from 41 to 34 percent while fighter serviceability decreased from 55 to 51 percent. Although these statistics do not precisely reflect the Regia Aeronautia’s losses, they do illustrate that Italian airmen were also subject to the punishment unleashed on Axis airfields in the region. Weeks of air bombardment resulting in both aircraft/aircrew losses and significant damage to bases and technical installations added up. Luftflotte 2’s chief of staff later reported: "In the last few weeks before the landing all the aerodromes, operational airfields, and landing grounds on Sicily were so destroyed in continuous attacks by massed forces that it was only possible to get this or that airfield in running order again for a short time, mainly by mobilizing all available forces, including those of the German and Italian armies." Consequently, Axis aircraft were increasingly forced to turn to semi-permanent and improvised landing grounds in attempts to conceal their aircraft. Energetic resistance from Sicilian property owners and a lack of support on the part of Italian authorities led to difficulties in preparing these temporary sites though. The Germans reduced single-engine fighter strength on Sicily from 185 to 100 by 9 July in order to conserve strength for the landings themselves. At the same time they also withdrew Fw 190 formations from Sicily, thereafter using the island only as an advanced landing ground. Aircraft serviceability was also an issue. Serviceability rates of Sardinian-based fighter-bombers dropped from 55 to 35 percent, meaning fewer would be available for transfer to Sicily when the invasion came. In Sicily, Lieutenant-Colonel Steinhoff observed that “unserviceable aircraft were ruthlessly cannibalized, for the spare-part situation was truly catastrophic.” After the war, Field Marshal Kesselring conceded that by the time of the Allied landings on 10 July the Luftwaffe was unable to effectively intervene on the battlefield. Eagles Over Husky - Alexander Fitzgerald Black

[@emmano6340]

Fascinating !

[@merdiolu]

The margin of air superiority that the Allied air forces achieved paid immediate dividends in the protection of the convoys carrying the troops, supplies, and equipment for the landings in Sicily. The interconnectedness of these two tasks is best illustrated by the role of AHQ Malta, under the command of Air Vice-Marshal Sir Keith Park. While originally fielding five Spitfire squadrons, this number was increased to over 23 by the arrival of Tactical Air Force Spitfire squadrons in June. Among these units was No. 72 Squadron RAF and Flying Officer George Noel Keith. Keith became the first of his squadron to shoot down an enemy aircraft from their base in Malta. On 18 June 1943, Keith shot down German ace Major Gerhard Michalski. The Major was Gruppenkommandeur of II/JG 53, a fighter unit based at Comiso airfield in southern Sicily. Michalski suffered a broken ankle and wounded leg as he bailed out of his stricken Bf 109. He survived the descent and paid a visit to an Axis hospital in Ragusa. This significant increase in fighter strength allowed the island to provide daylight escorts for all convoys within a 50-mile radius. In total, the island’s fighters escorted approximately 2,000 ships during Operation HUSKY. Prior to the landings two-thirds of the island’s fighters were tasked with escort duties while the remaining one-third provided escorts to Strategic Air Force bombers hitting airfields in southeast Sicily. Thus, Malta effectively illustrates the connection between convoy protection and the air superiority battle. Spitbombers also supplemented the heavier raids by striking landing grounds and lines of communication. Malta was the assembly area for convoys prior to the landings. On 9 July there were no attacks on Allied convoys off Malta during daylight hours. As twilight fell, Malta-based night fighters maintained a screen between enemy airfields and shipping in the Sicilian Strait. These aircraft were managed by ground-controlled interception stations in Malta and aboard headquarters ships. Before the convoys reached Malta they had to make a long passage from embarkation ports as far away as the United Kingdom and the United States. Thankfully, the Allies had turned the Battle of the Atlantic to their favour during spring 1943. Although sinkings by Axis submarines in the Mediterranean occurred the most significant threat to the convoys perceived by Allied commanders was Axis aircraft. Air planners had written the air superiority campaign directly into the Coastal Air Force’s employment policy: the extent to which the enemy would be able to make attacks on HUSKY convoys would “depend on the weight of our attack on targets in Sicily, Sardinia, and Italy.” Day and night fighters, anti-aircraft guns, barrage balloons, and ground-controlled interception defences were improved all along the North African coast. AHQ Eastern Mediterranean was responsible for all convoys within 40 miles of the African coast on the eastern side of an imaginary line joining the Tunisian frontier to Malta, while the Coastal Air Force was responsible for all convoys to the west of this line. AHQ Eastern Mediterranean escorted its four primary charges, a pair of assault convoys and a pair of follow-up convoys carrying British Eighth Army to the waters around Malta, without significant incident. It was also briefly responsible for the Canadian 1st Infantry Division’s convoys from the United Kingdom while they were off Tripolitania. US Seventh Army’s convoys came from as far away as the United States and were escorted by the Coastal Air Force aircraft. While Axis bombers made attempts to interfere with these movements, they failed to disrupt the assembly. Eagles Over Husky - Alexander Fitzgerald Black

[@shawnr771]

Thank you for providing the additional information.

[@WorldWarTwo]

merdiolu Thanks for always bringing great context to our episodes

[@ypaulbrown]

Always fantastic Program....thank you so much......from Florida....Paul

[@angeledduirbonesu1989]

My grandfather was an Italian soldier defending the beach in south Sicily. Died few years ago, age 90. Can't imagine what he was thinking those days

[@coryhall7074]

My great uncle landed on southern Sicily with the US 45th division. He died many years ago when I was very young, he drank so much from the war. Crazy to think our families might have been forced to fight each other.

[@angeledduirbonesu1989]

Ones he told me that their gun had only 7 shells. Shei shot them all against the first assault wave, then finished all the ammo of their rifles and immediately surrendered. Americans took them pow and send them for a while outside italy. We still have pictures of my grandfather taken by american soldiers during the prison time.

[@coryhall7074]

​@@angeledduirbonesu1989 Do you have any idea where on Sicily he was stationed? My uncle came ashore near Scoglitti, I don't know what wave he was in.

[@matthewcreelman1347]

I imagine he was thinking some variation of "holy mother of God, there's so damned many of them! So many ships, so many planes! Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. How do I say 'I surrender' in English?" So, something like "santa madre di Dio, ce ne sono così maledettamente tanti! Tante navi, tanti aerei! Merda, merda, merda, merda, merda. Come si dice 'mi arrendo' in inglese?"

[@angeledduirbonesu1989]

@@coryhall7074 I can ask my aunt if she knows, she has all his photos. I'm sure he ones told me that he saw weeks (or months?) before the invasion the Italian King inspecting some areas of Sicily. Hope this info can help you out.

[@wekurtz72]

I know you guys hear this a lot, but thanks for another excellent chapter in the most comprehensive and entertaining resource for World War II ever created.

[@WorldWarTwo]

WE Kurtz We appreciate every kind comment we receive, no matter how repetitive it may be. This channel and you in our audience are unique, and it means the world to us having such a kind, caring audience. Thank you for the high praise and for exploring the war with us

[@ias400]

Right, a new model army. The axis better hope it has more PUNch than the first one.

[@antonytye3484]

As much PUNch maybe, the original NMA had a fair punch and was groundbreaking and very effective, which is all that could be hoped for.

[@bobharvey6957]

What an episode, can't wait for the one of next week

[@WorldWarTwo]

Stay tuned, bob

[@bobharvey6957]

@@WorldWarTwo btw i haven't seen any new posts on the day by day instagram for a few days, is it normal ?

[@nikitaponomarenko1263]

What a great episode! What a hook at the end planted

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, Nikita! Stay tuned

[@oliversherman2414]

I love your channel keep up the great stuff!!!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks!

[@oliversherman2414]

@@WorldWarTwo no worries mate 👍 Can you do a special episode about neutral Sweden during WW2? I'm half Swedish and would like to know more about what they were up to at the time

[@brokenbridge6316]

Yeah know I once saw a video on a little talked about aspect of the Battle of Kursk. The Battle in the Air. Most people don't focus on this. Needless to say at the end of it the Soviets suffered a lot. German losses were apparently manageable. But since the Soviets could replace their losses more easily than the Germans it was in the long run a greater loss for the Germans. Nice video.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, Broken Bridge. We'll have to wait and see how the battle shakes out before we can make any judgements of airpower…

[@brokenbridge6316]

@@WorldWarTwo---Your welcome. And okay. I just thought I'd mention that video I saw. Thought it would add something nice to the comments section.

[@jordanhicken7812]

Indy you are such a good host! Can’t praise you enough!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching, Jordan!

[@orderoftheyawgmoth]

Dear Indy and the rest of the group, I thank you for the journey thus far. I've enjoyed your coverage and I've also enjoyed your mythbusting moments. One of the myths busted in your first episodes was the Polish cavalry attacking German panzers with their sabers (something I heard many times in my youth). Thank you for burying the myth. Another often heard myth concerns the huge tank battle of Prokhorovka which is about to become relevant next week. According to old lore in my youth, hundreds of Soviet T-34s charged across the open steppe against hundreds of German Tiger, Panther and Ferdinand tanks smashing them to pieces in a massive and confusing tank melee while taking relatively low losses themselves thus making the battle a spectacular Soviet victory. As I've grown older more information has been released and the picture of this battle has dramatically changed. According to new info there were no Panthers let alone Ferdinands present at Prokhorovka. Ferdinands were sent exclusively to Model's Army Group Center and most of the Panther tanks had broken down. Also there never were "hundreds of German Tiger tanks" present at the battle, only like 5 (the rest were being repaired). The biggest news according to new studies is that the battle of Prokhorovka was not a smashing Soviet success but a massive debacle instead. Modern sources claim that German tank losses were relatively low with only scores of them being destroyed whereas Soviets were the ones losing hundreds of T-34s in the battle. Dear World War Two team, after openly addressing and busting so many myths along the way I kindly ask you to address the myths associated with the tank battle of Prokhorovka as well. Please note that some of the sources you use repeat the old lore and have many mistakes in them which should be corrected. For example Antony Beevor claims German foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop's son Rudolf was commanding a platoon of 7 Tiger tanks. This is not true, he was commanding 7 Panzer IVs. Thanks and greetings from Finland. See you next week when the tanks clash at Prokhorovka.

[@caryblack5985]

I would disagree with debacle. The Germans destroyed more Soviet tanks but failed in all their other aims. While Manstein was still trying to advance Model was not only thrown back but the Soviets launched their counteroffensive.

[@WorldWarTwo]

orderoftheyawgmoth Thanks for your kind words and yes, stay tuned to see how we tackle Prokhorovka. 🇫🇮

[@alih6953]

Great coverage and great image! You guys did an amazing job!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you Ali! Stay tuned for more each week

[@Nerathul1]

I feel like we never go more than two weeks before someone important dies in a plane crash. Those old planes were absolute deathtraps.

[@nivlacyevips]

They should have known what comics of the 1980s knew, just make the whole plane out of the same stuff the black box is made of.

[@the_mowron]

25,000 men died in aircraft accidents in the US army air corps during the war. The planes were rushed into production and the pilots were rushed through training. I'm sure the situation was similar for the other nations involved.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

@@the_mowron I read somewhere that 9,000 British aircrew members died in flying accidents during training. Most of them would have ended up in the meatgrinder of Bomber Command if they had survived training, but they did not get that far.

[@AtomikNY]

Also, the percentage of planes being shot at during the war was much higher than the post-war era. My grandfather's plane was shot down over Poland. Thankfully the Red Army found him before the Germans did.

[@TheBucketSkill]

LoL im just imagining a DC-3 crashing

[@yayazein222]

Great research work, kudos 👏 to the entire team

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you Ali

[@luciusdomitiusaurelianus5334]

OMG! IM SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS ONE

[@Crimethoughtfull]

You can't blame the phone for that horrendously awesome Dad Joke...

[@angelonunez8555]

Interesting observation--the aircraft shown at ~7:30 in German markings is actually a Soviet-made La-5 fighter.

[@martijn9568]

I noticed that too. It also wouldn't be the first time on this channel that you could make a video about just the short clip of archival footage. Sometimes they also make small mistakes only a knowledgeable person would see. For example I noticed they had once used a clip containing Lavochkin La-9 Soviet post- war propeller fighters. I suspect it was probably mislabelled in the archive by someone as a fighter from WW2. Still not a huge mistake, but it is there.

[@stefanronda3092]

Thank you for your knowledge and works

[@WorldWarTwo]

Stefan Thank you for watching

[@smudgetheignored]

My great uncle served on the USS Strong. Unfortunately I believe the Strong holds the record for the longest unguided torpedo strike. Luckily he survived the sinking.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for sharing about him

[@randallwong7196]

Spending over a year and a half without figuring out the Type 93 has a tremendous range.....

[@user-lq5yx1ke5k]

Nice homage to Glantz & House with the title :)

[@WorldWarTwo]

😉

[@maciejniedzielski7496]

Epicness of the episode beyond ALL

[@alexandersturnn4530]

It's very possible that my Great-Grandfather died in this battle. We don't know for sure, since my Grandmother was born in 1941 and didn't remember him at all and her family never got any reports on his exact fate...but since he died in Summer 1943 on the Eastern Front, it is likely he fell at Kursk during Operation Citadel.

[@Zen-sx5io]

What side did he fight on?

[@dros1161]

@@Zen-sx5io Read his name xd

[@Zen-sx5io]

@@dros1161 I did, but I wasn't sure.

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

Aww, sorry to hear it. You must be a young pup if grandma was born in 1941.

[@kemarisite]

@@Zen-sx5io between the somewhat Germanic name and the reference to the "Eastern front", seems safe to assume German.

[@bill_automated1226]

Love the show. Keep up the great work. I liked the UK band New Model Army in the 1980s. Nice pun.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks Bill. Stay tuned for more, and please consider joining the TimeGhost Army to help us produce more content you love www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory

[@Lematth88]

This week in French politics: The 3rd of July, admiral Robert yields, Martinique joins Free France. Robert stays at port and is the de facto governor while the CFLN sends a new governor for the Antilles and for Martinique, Henri Hoppenot. Hoppenot is a french ambassador. Secretary in 1917 in Rio de Janeiro’s ambassy under Paul Claudel (future poet and playwright). In 1933, he is councilor at the ambassy of Peking/ Beijing, in 1938 he is the Deputy director of the division Europe at the Foreign Affairs. After 1940, he is named by Vichy as a Minister Plenipotentiary in Metevideo in Uruguay. He was first for Giraud in the end of 1942 before changing sides and joining De Gaulle at the beginning of 1943. He then became Director of Civilian Services of the Military Mission in the United-States. In June, he was named representative of the CFLN in the US. The 7th of July, colonel Pierre Bilotte of the FFL (Free French Forces) is nominated secretary in the Military Committee. Bilotte is an officer captured in June 1940. He manages to escape in February 1941, and he joins the USSR, interned until Barbarossa, and became the Free France representative in Moscow. He is exchanged against Russian refugee in London and becomes the Chief of Staff of De Gaulle as a colonel.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Merci Lematth

[@krato890]

Fantastic episode!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you Link!

[@clamum9648]

8:06 The 48th Panzer Corp in the southern pincer were stunned to find a ton of minefields? Yikes. Did they really think they were surprising the Soviets with Citadel?

[@33z6i6]

No they weren't. The problem was that they didn't have enough detailed information on the sheer magnitude of the Soviet defensive system. They also lacked many of the mine clearing assets that 9th Army posessed. Another problem was the geographical situation that 48th Corps faced. The swampy ground on the east bank of the Pena river made mine clearing much more difficult. One also shouldn't ignore the fact that the CO of the Pz.Rgt.GD, von Strachwitz, acted pretty ruthless and thus did hinder the work of the pioneers. This also had drastic consequences for Pz.Rgt.39 (the Panthers). In contrast, both 3. Pz.Div and 11. Pz.Div. made much better progress, despite the minefields.

[@theeaselrider4032]

I actually laughed a bit ( sorry ), when the graphic of the Italian soldier drooped his head to show how low is morale was. Another good one, thanks.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching

[@hannahskipper2764]

Germans: Holy shit. This is really happening. Russians: Holy shit. This is really happening. Japanese: hehe. We have radar now. Americans: Well, damn.

[@oneshotme]

Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up

[@WorldWarTwo]

👍 Back at you

[@ekszentrik]

This trainwreck operation with to 1939 eyes eye-watering numbers is the definition of "mission creep" and "sunk cost fallacy".

[@chrisschumacher8553]

The thing about Citadel is that they always try to walk it in.

[@DaiElsan]

While this is firmly a land battle, just what did both airforces do to support the troops and machines on the ground? Considering how intense these opening stages have been, very little is being said about the roll of the airforce, either in the vital role of reconnaissance, attack and defence. From the beginning of Kursk the German's must have realised they had bitten off more than they could chew.

[@tieslang8657]

As always, great episode!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching!

[@constpegasus]

The final effort before the unending retreat.

[@02air]

I am beginning to think that Indy is not talking to anyone on the phone.

[@WorldWarTwo]

How preposterous 😀 Thanks for watching!

[@secretsfullofsaucers]

Kursk! Been looking forward to this! Also enjoyed the joke at the start :)

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, we know this is one our entire audience has been looking forward to.

[@eleanorkett1129]

This episode covers so much I had to rewind a few times. Husky begins in the midst of Kursk. I wonder if the allies did this on purpose. Were the British and Americans aware of Citadel while preparing for Husky?

[@WorldWarTwo]

They could not have known about Citadel at the planning stages of Husky, no.

[@gianniverschueren870]

From afar this tie kind of looks like a painter's pallet... Quite something. 3.5/5

[@WorldWarTwo]

Gianni Your tie appraisals make my day. This intern always looks forward to your comments. Thanks for being here as always

[@jacquesfuller2087]

In 1942, operation Torch and the battles of Stalingrad and Guadalcanal raged in three different parts of the world. Now in 1943, operations Husky, Zitadelle and the battle of New Georgia take course in , roughly, the same corners of Earth!

[@briceoka5623]

Next week is the last week of german offensive (in the strictest sense of the term) of the war. It's going to be one sided for 2 long years now. I have to say, I am not so well informed about what happens between the end of Kursk and D-Day on the eastern front so I am excited for the journey

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks for watching, Brice

[@something1600]

Strange to have an English civil war reference in the video about the battle of Kursk.

[@danielgreen3715]

There's an awful lot to be said about Minefields and Defence in Depth With Anti Tank Guns and Infantry especially when they are Dug in as well as they are..Takes a great deal of effort to Advance into Mutually supported Fire Zones As im sure Feldmarschall Model and the 4th Panzers are finding out!!

[@naveenraj2008eee]

Hi Indy Awesome video.. Worth to wait. Another offensive. Awaiting for next episode. Thanks.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you as always for watching. Please stay tuned, we'll see you next week

[@JHF_Gaming]

15:45 "It's over Adolf, I have the high ground." -- J. Stalin😀

[@basichistory]

Another great video, thank you.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for watching

[@janrolka557]

Hey, TimeGhost History. I can't emphasize how good your channel is. Thank you for your work. Can you recommend me any books and authors on the war in the Pacific? I know very little about it and I want to change it. Also have you read Boris Sokolov's books? I have one book written by him I have no idea whether he is reliable or not. You guys are great!

[@davidbush8765]

There are a number of good books on the War in the Pacific. I especially recommend Ian Toll's Pacific War Trilogy. For the Solomons' Campaign, you can't beat Hornfischer's books either.

[@Dustz92]

Richard B. Frank's Tower of Skulls is pretty good and was one of the main sources for them in 1942

[@yoloman544]

You should check out the War in the Pacific podcast and the video series with the same name and producer on the Kings and Generals Channel

[@craigclemens986]

Books by Samuel Elliot Morrison.

[@kemarisite]

@@Dustz92 which should then be followed up with his masterful work on the Guadalcanal campaign.

[@Shleemaa]

I wonder where did you get that shot of the La-5 fighter with Luftwaffe markings at 7:30?

[@bangscutter]

Tens of thousands casualties and hundreds of tanks disabled in just the first day! What were the Germans thinking, doing a frontal assault against a fortified position and against a numerically superior foe in in both soldiers and equipment? Can you imagine the Germans doing a frontal assault against the French Maginot Line in the early part of the war?

[@WorldWarTwo]

As a certain police chief once said, desperation is a stinky cologne.

[@angelonunez8555]

The losses on the first day were: 9th Army---7, 221, 4th Panzer Army---2, 527 and Army Detachment Kempf---3, 484, for a total of 13, 232, serious casualties, but not "tens of thousands". This was the worst single day, by quite a margin, in the entire battle for the Germans. The tank and SP gun losses weren't as high as "hundreds" implies. Source: Kursk 1943 A statical analysis by Niklas Zetterling and Anders Frankson.