2021 VW ID3 62 kWh degradation test after 2 years/48k km

[@moestrei]

There needs to be a standardised algorithm across all manufacturers for SOH to keep the guessing and gambling out when buying a 2nd hand EV.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

I have a Power Wall that is down to 75% of original capacity in three years. It doesn’t look like it is going to maintain the warranty 70% in ten years.

[@danielroden9424]

what are the daily in outs? how often do you go 100->0 %?

[@theslothonabike]

Harry said you're the man.

[@SwordfishEV]

My ID.3 still has 89% remaining capacity after exactly 100k km 3 years. I hope that things will go down more slowly now because the first 10% loss usually comes quickly.👍

[@MegaMaskedrider]

how do you read out

[@SwordfishEV]

@@MegaMaskedrider VW did a test at exactly 100k km with their tool but I've already done it at 90k with AVILOO.

[@tonyb3629]

Once the battery rot starts, that's it. Think about when you want to sell it on too - will anyone want it when the battery is degrading?

[@Stiversen1]

Vw warrenty for their electric car batteries. 78 % v. 3 Years or 60.000 km. 74 % v. 5 years or 100.000 km. 70 % v. 8 years or 160.000 km Looks like your batteri i well within the limit.

[@mymiphone1841]

Meanwhile my Renault Zoe still 97% after 5 years

[@Nelsonrgpereira]

Two notes about the software: 1- There are OTA updates but some(including the last one to 3.2) have to be installed at dealer because some cars had modules that wouldn't update, just to be safe they decided all should go to dealer, incluiding those that already had software 3.0 for instance(OTA). This 3.2 also makes the heating of the battery more consistent and this is the one that boosts charging for 130kW. 2- Only factory installed software is on 3.7, all other ones are like that one or at best at 3.2, this is the most recent software if you don't buy a new car. 2-

[@Taakeheim]

There's still no denying that VW promised OTA updates every 12 weeks about 3 years ago, and we have had what, 2 proper OTA updates so far? (Only one if you didn't get selected in the voluntary 3.0 OTA)

[@norfolkngood8960]

Ota updates except they screwed that up so it doesn't work, GENIUS

[@TomClaessens]

I received mine in Oct 2023, and it's currently on 3.5. So that means I have to get to the dealership as well to get 3.7? Interesting that you mention the charging for the 3.2 update, as I've been down to ~20% (lowest) and even on a charger capable of 130kW it only gets up to 42 (max) and avg. is around 30-35 I think.

[@Nelsonrgpereira]

​@@TomClaessenssupposedly all cars with 3.2 and up now will always get OTA updates when available. As for charge there are multiple factors that can impact the charging speed, but that doesn't change the fact the car can charge to up to XX kWh.

[@orbetobe]

LOL why on earth would i have to drive to the dealer for a software update in 2023? Dinosaurs ...

[@hwanju94]

I think you should tested degradations at same temp. Batteries at chill don't make kWh as same as when it is optimal temp.

[@kovadam69]

exactly, especially MEB BMS software is adjusting max energy content according to battery and outdoor temp... Mine fluctuates multiple kWh based on battery temp and outdoor temp. I was reading in late mid november, and I had 71600Wh max energy content on the battery. Next weekend I drowe 200+km on highway (130kmh) and also did a short DC fast charge, then I had max energy content more than 72600Wh (I don't remember the exact value, but it was around this, or bigger). So simply heating up a battery a bit, gave me back 1kWh of capacity. And even in summer I usually go over 73000Wh...

[@4EV-ER]

Yeah some newer cars seem to do this, while some older ones may show a more fixed number. In the end you may "gain some capacity back" when it gets warmer again and I suspect it is the case with this ID3 too.

[@BikeOnRoadLondon]

Exactly. And also relying on car scanner to show accurate charge data isn’t the correct way. Should be comparing charge put into the car at the same SoC between new and used to ascertain degradation without using complicated discharge and charge cycle analysis.

[@Tomaskom]

@@kovadam69 He started with the battery heated well, so that should be fine, starting with it fully loaded. The problem might be pulling out energy at the bottom when it got cold again...

[@patrickcrombez150]

Had an 77kwh id3 that i sold After 2 years/25k km with 66kwh available at 100%. less confidence with meb cars, back to Toyota Prius 5 Phev for the moment! 😮

[@KaiGoEnergy22]

You have to be careful about the battery capacity. VW states 58kWh net capacity. However, this includes the emergency reserve below 0% to reach the charger for hard core drivers. From 0-100% it is supposed to have 54kWh. German ADAC made this clear in a 100.000km test last year. They also had this mismatch and clarified it in communication with VW. About the i3, this is a special case as I found out in a video of Carmaniac and Aviloo. The i3 has a quite large buffer which BMW enables step by step. The tested i3 with (I think) 160.000km still had 100% SoH which is of course unreasonable. The Aviloo guy explained this by the buffer reserve that BMW decreases with increasing degradation.

[@venelerinov]

Hey Bjorn, I like your videos, but I think you should do some research for ID.3s. Most of them have battery and software recall from years 2020 and 2021 due to defective battery module that self discharges. The fact that your test car is still running on v2.3 means that it hasn't gone to VW dealership recently. Maybe you should test another id that has had the faulty module replaced for more accurate picture. Do your own research and check if the ID that you tested is affected by the battery recall compaign. I am pretty sure it is, but just because it was lease car or rental, it never got to the workshop, because it takes couple of days, if not weeks to repair. :)

[@frankbrune3101]

Thank you for going trough scary situations like this and sharing the experience so others dont have to

[@aidenzoray3716]

"ID. Software - John Carmack is turning in is bed now." 😆

[@haugstadianer]

Salting the roads lowers the "slippery" temperature of the road by 5-10 degrees, one of the downsides of the salting the roads.

[@Scrap-press]

Chris from battery life experienced similar degradation.

[@ricvergeer]

I think that by heating the outside in the garage, you heated the sensors more then the hole batterypack.

[@apekatt2007]

Did you even listen in to the video?

[@Tresla]

The battery pack has a hole in it?

[@maartenfikse6293]

There's 1 update at the dealer that enables OTA, this update also includes battery cell testing which needs to be done at the dealer for seemingly safety reasons. After that a lot of updates are OTA.

[@stefanvanvuuren3931]

Remember that BMW "hides" degradation by eating into the top and bottom buffer. So it might seem like less degradation but the usabile energy is just slowly released over time from the buffers. In my opinion this is very smart, but it depends on how you see it.

[@Rampage1979]

I believe Toyota is using the same idea with the Bz4x hiding 40 miles below 0% . After people complained the Bz4x didn't have enough range they released between 10 to 20 miles from the buffer . It means they still have 20ish miles left in the buffer. That's why Toyota guarantees 90% battery after 10years which is impressive.

[@stijnbode8448]

ID.3 1st Pro Performance owner here with ~78000km driven. I get about the same results. I have to say I was quite disappointed with this kind of degradation, should’ve opt for the bigger battery instead for my type of usage. I often drive 250+km a day and have to charge every day because of that. (On cold days sometimes even twice a day) I try to minimize fast charging but without the possibility to charge at home and only rely on public chargers it’s sometimes hard to manage. I do love the car though. It drives great and I really like the ACC Drive mode in ID cars. One thing that really bothers me is the software though. I had to wait for almost a year to get the software update 3.2, and now the app isn’t functioning for more than 2 months already and I can’t get my car connected because of a known bug ‘there working on it’ but it’s taking forever. To me it’s really a dealbreaker and my next car definitely won’t be a Volkswagen. Software became too important for these computers on wheels and VW is really lagging years behind on the competition. That combined with the degradation im seeing I have to say I’m quite disappointed with this car.

[@m.h.9244]

Hello björn. I was once licensing to a podcast with Aviloo and they toled in this podcast That the i3 has a very big buffer which is allowed to use when the car gets older so this might be the reason for low degradation.

[@bjornnyland]

I saw 129 Ah on a new 120 Ah car.

[@PetersBful]

I test my ID4 77 differently. Twice in a year I drive the same route with almost equal weather conditions, temperature, AC settings etc. After that I calculate the estimated range with 100% charge from what the vehicle estimates: eg. 356 km est. range x 100 / SoC in %. 35600 / 71 = 501 km at 100% SoC. After the 14 months an 37,000 km the max range stays the same. Of course it is an estimation only, still depending on a lot of variables. But using the heating eats up energy a lot compared to testing with 20° C, leading to worse results.

[@o00scorpion00o]

It would be interesting to know what your car records as usable Kwh which is 73.5 new usually measured at a battery temp of around 20 Deg C. My battery tells me I have 71.5 Kwh usable after 2 years 2 months and 70,000 Kms. I have the ID.3 Tour 5, quite a rare beast and I believe it's no longer in production only the id3 58 Kwh. I did a 250 Km trip recently in typical Irish shit weather, lots of Wind and Rain and still had 30% charge this was travelling at 110-120 Km/hr most of the way with some 100-110 Km/hr stints which is much the same as what I managed a year ago around this time.

[@PetersBful]

@@o00scorpion00o Hi. I am not diving so deep into the specs. I did before and it drove me crazy. Now I’m just driving the car and checking just the basics. So boring 😉

[@o00scorpion00o]

@@PetersBful Yeah I'm pretty much the same but am interested only keeping an eye on the battery capacity as it ages but so far after 2 years 2 months and 70.000 Kms the battery is doing good.

[@nickthegriffin]

This comment is exactly why I don't want a EV if this is the kind of stuff you feel necessary to do I'm out.

[@PetersBful]

@@nickthegriffin Actually I am saying that you do not need to dig into stats. Just fill the BEV up with energy and enjoy your ride until it’s almost empty and repeat. It’s boringly simple. These tests are clearly saying: nothing to worry about.

[@christophbrehm3997]

Björn we also had -10 degrees at night on 6.12.23 near Nuremberg/Bayreuth. A German newspaper has once again taken over your Kona Disaster to create a mood

[@kovaxzolika]

Its still better! We, used car buyers can buy cheaper EVs😅

[@TheNewcastlePilot]

Always enjoy watching your degradation and 1000km challenge videos. Good to see there are cars less efficient than my Mazda MX-30 with it's small 30kWh battery, but, I like the interior of my car so there is that.

[@TheJonazas]

I've been watching model 3 highland videos, and then looked at this video afterwards. This car looks 10 years old compared to the model 3.

[@bastianm5478]

What exactly do you mean? A 2019 model 3 compared to a 2024 model 3 also feels like ancient tech.

[@MrTeq333]

Im one of very few owners of 2021 ID4 1st with the smallest, 52 kWh battery. After 52000 km car scanner reports 47 kWh remaining capacity, which is roughly what I experience on trips. I also have the ancient 2.3 software with all the bugs included.

[@tomasthonell5445]

You havent experienced the 1.6 software in the id.3... THAT was buggy! :-)

[@hanslundstrom245]

I have the same MEB car the lightweight edition with the net 52kwh cap, today after 30.000km it holds 44.6kwh..I only charging slow .most time to 80% thats it..software 3.2 .max charge speed 65kw.. aver.43kwh. model 2022.

[@MrTeq333]

are you sure the battery is warm enough when charging? I recently made a 1200 km trip and I could charge at over 100 kW every time the battery was at 10-20% and 25C@@hanslundstrom245

[@nakfan]

The Return of The Red Turtle - proper cold, proper ninja 🥷

[@davi-sn3jf]

Hi Björn, interesting results. If you like, you could test mine. its also the "pro" version, now 3 years old and 69k km. It charged about 5 times per year to 100% and 80% rest of the time, overall more than 95% AC. My calculations are in the range of about 51kWh left. Located near Stuttgart, Germany.

[@pattuscheck]

Wow fast nur AC und trotzdem soviel schon weg.

[@hanslundstrom245]

Same with mine..Is this Battery Gate?

[@decimal1815]

Interesting to have a brief glimpse of Norwegian life at the recycling centre :)

[@mnorma12]

Totally agree that it’s late to the game, but my 2021 ID4 just had its first OTA. Here’s hoping!

[@eirik500]

Could you please do a cold weather charging of ID.4 or Enyaq? And discuss with VAG why they not yet have released manual preheating while making it for the 2024 models?

[@marcohillenga5068]

Yes, please do a test!

[@pilotandthecity8527]

@teslabjorn, this is why I sold my ID4 , and bought back a 2020 BMW I3s 42kWh. As mentioned before, probably a little outdated tech, but exceptional battery life. Still happy I switched back to the good old I3s. It would have been great if someone would give this car a aftermarket battery and charging upgrade.

[@850bimmer]

Thanks Bjørn. I'm looking at my Enyaq RS with CarScanner as well, it only charges to approx. 69.000Wh after 1 year/12.000km. I think it charged to 71.500Wh when new, maybe you have that number in your test spreadsheet, to me that is about 3,5% degradation in a very short time.

[@philipk89]

That John Carmack comment 😂 Björn classy as always

[@moestrei]

9 year old Tesla S 85P+ with 380.000km and only 13% degradation. 2/3 DC charging but stay always in 20% - 80% window and drive always in Chill mode.

[@Elaba_]

How many km did you drive it or did you buy it new? Can you list the expensive parts that got replaced?

[@moestrei]

@@Elaba_ It is a 85P+ signature which I bought (cheap, no one wanted it because of mileage) 5 years ago with 240000km and 2nd DU. Upgraded to MCU2. From 300000 to 350000 I replaced all 4 front control arms. 360000 the 12V battery. Upgraded HID lights from 25W to 35W. Did most of the work myself. Nothing else, super reliable, long lasting and cheap to run (on free SuC and excess solar at home). I know a number of other owners, same stories.

[@DentfreeEurope]

Thank You very much for all your efforts to study all that You did, and inform us as well !! Very Much appreciated !

[@eing9911]

Hi, I have an 2021 ID3 with the 58kWh battery which I have had since 2022. It had 9000km on the ODO when I bought it and now 2 years later it has almost 100000 km. I travel 150km every day to work and I almost never do any fast charge. I charge at home at around 6-8 kW. In the beginning I could do 1,5-2 trips to work (up to 300 km) if I charged it to 80%. Now at best the range is around 180-200 km @ 80% So I installed an ELM327 and the carscanner app and found out (depending on SOC) that it seems that my battery has about 61-64% capacity left (calculated from that the battery is 62kWh). So next step was to take it to the local VAG dealer and do a warranty claim. They wanted the car for two days for this test. After 2 hours day 1 they called and said that the fast test (that I didn´t know existed) showed no fault on the battery so no warranty. They also said that this test had up to 10% tolerance so in my world it is an useless test. They could also do a longer test if I paid more to do a better test...I did not proceed with that test...yet. I don´t know how I can proceed with this case. Any ideas?

[@marcohillenga5068]

Initial degradation is high, my car (Enyaq with 58 kWh battery) went from 55000wh to 52500 fairly quickly (6 months and 35.000km, It’s now at 50 kWh. (1.5 years and 108.000 km) Which goes to show that degradation will slow down a lot at a certain point. Car was charged to 100% a lot, last time it is sitting a lot on 50% SOC, because I have a job close at home now.

[@o00scorpion00o]

The id 3 and 4 with 82 Kwh battery have around 73.5 Kwh usable when new, not 77 Kwh. So the 58 Kwh Enyak if using the same buffer will have around 3.5 Kwh less or around 54.5 new usable. My car shows 71.5 Kwh usable after 2 years and 70,000 Kms or 2 Kwh loss in that time. So your Enyaq isn't looking bad but I'd like to know is that the max usable Kwh and are you calculating this via app or driving and then measuring the Kwh going in via charge point ? I am sceptical as to how the car calculates this anyway as I recently drove 250 Kms and the car showed 30% charge remaining which is in line with last years trip to the same location same time of year same shitty weather of strong wind and rain.

[@martinnilsson5295]

Why would u charge it to 100% its not recommended

[@marcohillenga5068]

@@martinnilsson5295 because I needed the full range everyday.

[@marcohillenga5068]

@@o00scorpion00o There’s another battery protection buffer at the bottom. When SOC BMS is also at 0%, it is still at 330V, which is still not empty, but rather a brick protection. When SOC BMS is at 96%, it is at true 96% full. (Almost 4.2V cell voltage) But what you mostly notice is range degradation. I can drive 15-25 km less in same conditions as when it was new. That’s the most important degradation measurement.

[@o00scorpion00o]

@@marcohillenga5068 I can't imagine you can measure a 15-25 Km range degradation, there are too many variables. Yes there is a huge buffer in the ID cars which is why the "77" Kwh only showed 73.5 Kwh available when new. I don't notice any range loss when travelling 250 Kms last weekend I still had 30% battery left and most of the trip was 110-120 Km/hr.

[@olaflanfermann7343]

Actual 3.2 is most acccesibla for Updates. Only new ID.3 gets 3.5 atm. For further OTA updates you need a manual update to 2.4 and a battery switch(12V). I did the Update to 2.4 in my old ID3. For one year i drive now the prefacelift with OS 3.2. Works fine for my. From version 3.0 the standard charging limit is 80%. You can manually overwrite this. But you'll get warning messages, until you stick to the list. With OS Version 3.2 the battery heating strategy changes. You'll never get a chance to ride the battery warm. Batterytemperature will be low. I still miss the manual heating option

[@o00scorpion00o]

What version ID3 had manual battery heating ? The thing that upsets me most about the id3 is having to be plugged in at 10% or less to get good charge current.

[@olaflanfermann7343]

@@o00scorpion00o None ID3 has. And i doubt, that that will happen. To be honest, even with my newer ID3 58kWh (OS3.2) i have bad charging experience every time. I spent my vacation in September in Norway (6000km trip) I was happy to get more than 65 kW. On the other hand, it make no different, if you use a triple charger or a HPC. Works for me, because i need fast charging only on vacation. Next time it will be 7500 km to the north cape. This will be at the end of summer. I hope the charging will be a bit better on higher temperature. We´ll see. .

[@o00scorpion00o]

@@olaflanfermann7343 Yes I know the id3 has no manual battery heating option sadly, I was just a bit confused when you said you miss the manual heating option which sounded a little like it was there before. You're correct, it probably won't happen, whether it happens automatically or not when navigating to charge points I doubt it also, seems like a waste of a battery heater. I do think the heater works when DC charging, next time I must connect up the app to see what's going on. Mostly I haven't seen beyond 60-65 Kw except last weekend when I got to an 300 Kw Ionity charger @7% battery charge, highest I saw was 122 Kw the most ever. This is the most frustrating thing about owning a VW EV currently is that you have to be plugged in a 10% or less to see anything close to 100 Kw it's extremely frustrating. I have the 82 Kwh id.3 Tour 5 which is a rare beast but I would never buy an ev with less than the usable 73 Kwh or 72 Kwh as I have now after 2 years 2 months and 70,000 Kms though I don't notice any loss of range so I am sceptical of the way that car calculates this as I recently did a 250 Km trip in foul weather, strong wind and lots of rain and still had 30% charge, this was travelling at speeds of 110-120 Km/hr most of the way, more at 120 Km/hr.

[@olaflanfermann7343]

@@o00scorpion00o Please excuse. I´m a native german speaker with trouble with the english language. I ment, that manual heating is still on my wishlist. I think the have trouble calculating the range, when the heating is involved automatically. You can use an obd2 dongle to and the carscanner pro app, to check out. But be carefull. From OS version 3.2 the car reacts a little spooky. When leaving the car, while the app is connected the intrusion allert is activated. Funny in the neighbourhood. I had in 3 years, 2 Cars an 70000 km only 2 times more than 110 kWh. For me, the bad charging perfomance doesn´t count. I charge while working for free. Company has 420 kWp PV on the roof. Every coworker is free to charge. I charge AC at 90%. Only on vacation DC is used. To be honest, I don’t care if charging takes 25 or 35 minutes. I plan reservetime and start the trip earlier. I thought the 77kWh version has a better charging performance (at least 135, if not 175kW). Usually I only have small trips (35km/d). I´m a really devensive driver. So in summer there are real 450 km in with the 58kWh battery. The vacation in Norway was an other thing. Still it was not an issue, but I´d liked to have a bigger battery. I think the calculation on range is influenced on your last drivings and the temperature. I recognized degradation from 59500 Wh to 54500 Whi n one year. But I think I have to check this in summer, again. On one hand I think “Maximum capacity of transaction battery” is not a real value. The BMS will manage the values to the battery needs. Actual the car gives me 300 km on the Guessometer. This is related to short trips with heavy involved heater. In Summer I expect 400 km +x, which is realistic. For me 400km of range is more or less enough. I´m looking forward to the ID2 with a range of 450 km. Slightly better and big enough for me. Probably the GTI version.

[@doublesdetailer7709]

The Sun will love this vlog. Oh the VW high voltage cell scandal. Then curve ball sale at the end😂. Another awesome vlog🫡

[@tryingtobehelpful]

I find it more effective to exercise the brakes at speed on a road with no vehicles behind you by shifting into neutral to bypass regen brake blending. Also, turn off OPD beforehand of course. Then, you are free to pulse the brakes to exercise and burn off any rust.

[@jrherita]

Lol @ John Carmack reference - good shit Bjorn!

[@sybaseguru]

My 4 yr old - 2nd UK shipment M3 SR+ gets parity (1 mile range = 1 mile actual) at 55mph with heated seats at 0 deg C. I've been down to less than 10 miles 4 times.

[@MrPesto-gy2lt]

Percentage is newer software. This here is 2.3. Would make a lot of sense to upgrade this, particularly 2.4 and then 3.+ for improved UI performance. 2.3. is way better than 2.0 or even older - but w/ all the woes they had/have in their s/w department, I think it should be a no-brainer to actually try to get the most recent version for improving practically *everything*.

[@MrPesto-gy2lt]

Ah, 2.4. was the 910 thingie. Ok, anyhow.

[@dominiquecharriere1285]

I inherited one of our company's Skoda Enyaq 80 with 57k Kms. I could get 522 Kms autonomy full charge but after I was installed the Me3 update I could not get better than 474 Kms and now, in Spanish winter (usually 8-10 degrees average) the best i can make is 324 Kms. But these 324 Kms in reality are 230 Kms if I drive on the motorway at 120 kmh. The car is useless in a place like Spain where we have very little public chargers. In 10 months I did 2,800 Kms when normally I would do 20k... No more EV for me, thank you!

[@wolfgangselle4307]

Looks that’s problem why a lot of people will not buy EV when u not live close to urban areas where u have a lot of chargers available or in cold climate. EV is not ready for this condition …

[@MietoK]

My 2011 Mazda 6 still goes around 700 km with one charge. I am quite happy with the range

[@mkmproductions9257]

I checked the capacity on my Cupra Born 58kWh with Car Scanner when it was new and the average capacity based on SOC Display and kWh for every 10% from 100% to 10% was then 56,55kWh. So even when it was new it did not have 58kWh! When checking again 6 months later the average value was 52,69kWh, a degradation of 6,8%! I will check again after 12 months to see if the degradation slows down.

[@hanslundstrom245]

Normally when new 55kwh.. This called BatteryGate

[@hanslundstrom245]

This is normal.

[@KaiGoEnergy22]

The 55kWh are due to the way VW defines the net capacity german ADAC clarified that last year. 0-100% is only around 54kWh. The other 4kWh of tje 58kWh net capacity are emergency reserve below 0% which allows you to reach the next charger in case you mess something up in your route planning 😉. You can see this also in CarScanner: is has a value for maximum energy content which is around 58kWh. But the the battery energy content parameter is always 54/55kWh at 100% SoC or if you divide the value by your current SoC. If you do the Aviloo Test (99€) and probably the easiest and most reliable test out there, they actually only give 54kWh (0-100%) capacity for the new battery .

[@marcohillenga5068]

It was the same on mine, fairly rapid degradation in the first year, now very slowly degrading, 132k km and 10% degradation, but it has been the same now for almost a year now.

[@glyngoold2659]

That's convinced me even more to stick to petrol.

[@unixtippse]

Our 2021 ID.3 45 kWh not only had the software updated at the dealership earlier this year, but also the battery checked and a cell replaced. With the car in this video obviously not having been properly serviced, it's hard to tell what to think of the coldgate and capacity issues.

[@zeventwaalf712]

My Born also. So can confirm this probably to be the case.

[@Raggadish.]

​@@zeventwaalf712who is Born?

[@mdfk4]

Exactly. There is even a recall for update to 3.2 on these older ID cars in Europe.

[@zeventwaalf712]

@@Raggadish. cupra born?

[@yvs6663]

Battery Life tested his id3 several times and had some fairly high degradation numbers to show for it. i doubt he is charging his car to 100% when it isn't needed. so the cells they were using might have just been a bad apple. no biggie, just remember to shop for a battery capacity thats one bigger than the one you would if the car was new if buying used.

[@karl-heinzoehling483]

I agree with the results from “Battery Life” compared with my ID.3. Batterie loss about 8.5% after 47Tkm.

[@marcelbeaucamp9330]

Hey Björn, could you do a winter ID.3 test with the recently updated ID.3 and the newest software?

[@GeoPoi86]

I think its a little bit bad when you say it has a lot degradation and then this car is for sale and its awesome 😅. Anyway Bjorn thumbs up for the content, keep up the excellent work ! ! !

[@Ultravore]

how is this car still on ID Software 2.3? someone should bring it to the dealer for update. ID Software 3.x is so much better

[@usefulrandom1855]

No OTA updates on these?

[@G-ra-ha-m]

Great video, I like the panic these EV's induce :D My cheap old diesel however, Just Works...

[@williammccoy7127]

A clutch an break and a gas pedal,a speed indicator a fuel indicator and some fault indicators. 8 years with no problems 210000 km . lucky I am. Only changed break pads and tyres. 😊

[@mouseanalyse]

Paused at 19:47 and was very surprised at the degradation rates. I had a Tesla Model S for about 4,5 years and 150.000km and experienced a range degradation at 90% charge of 436km when new down to 412km. That’s roughly 6%. I think the car was supercharged about 2/3 of the time. In the beginning to 90%, near the end to 95% SoC. No idea about the number of cycles. With the AC charger it was only occasionally charged full (slow charger 7,4kW). I found that degradation acceptable, especially now that I dicover your numberd 😵. Worry-free car btw. Only minor things to fix as opposed to some less lucky Tesla drivers. Thx for your review. Very insightful.

[@3204clivesinclair]

My 3 year old VW has zero degradation, capacity is still 100%.

[@testi2025]

That’s quite old version :D I believe that the new battery heating stuff came on 2.4? Those old ID3 cars can be updated to 3.2. The facelift has higher version and the all important battery pre-heating.

[@ricokaden6562]

Interesting to see an ID with such an old software by end of 2023 😅. VW actually changed the charging speed and the way how the battery is heated during cold weather a lot with version 2.3/2.4/3.0. Unfortunately, it behaves different between the packs and probably again different between cars with and without heat pump. I’m also not sure about the whole degradation numbers, but I’m sure VW is wrong about the usable energy in their packs.

[@sbirchsbirch6232]

If it ain't illegal, car manufacturers will lie to your face about the capabilities of their cars. Heck, they'll do it even if it IS illegal.

[@martinnilsson5295]

​@@sbirchsbirch6232vw been good doing that in the past

[@sunseeker-yb5qt]

Thanks Björn. How would a list of „things you should do to keep degradation low“ look like from your experience? Thanks👍

[@ATICrossX]

Most importantly, if you leave your car sitting for long period of time, make sure battery is around or slightly more than 50% SOC, try to stick to 20-80% charge, especially if you are fast charging, also don't charge your car to 100% and leave it for long time, and that's pretty much it.

[@colinbouckaert3450]

And don't leave it

[@icucode]

According to my understanding the best is to slow charge often and keep SOC around 50%. For example drive 5% and charge 5% seems to be the best.

[@marvin3935]

Depends on chemistry. LFP is good with 0-100%.

[@marcohillenga5068]

NMC/NCA chemistry, 20-80%, preferably 50% when car is not in use. LFP: Charge to 100% regularly.

[@cedarcanoe]

That’s why we like the BMW i3 much better!

[@Two4OneMusic]

Damn i would instantly buy your kWh/h tshirt 😂

[@ID.SuperFan-tq8xi]

That's perfectly valid unit in this context. It could also be MJ/h, for example. The only problem is Björn being an elitist.

[@dv8ug]

Insane, this is why I am driving my gas guzzler and thinking about wood gasifier :)

[@MartinNyxel]

While looking at this car's behaviour it's clear for me that whole software package is very very old and dealer update of everything will sort a lot of issues you're currently facing. Even the turtle mode behaves differently with current sw release...

[@luisfernandes4145]

"Oh master Bjørn, please let me be your padwan!" 😁

[@spikeydave7368]

Great video - got a like for the John Carmack reference 👍

[@AMGGT-tp8sv]

Good tests from IRL as always! 👍 Range, degradation and performance is one thing. But I still wonder why VW doesn’t ever lern to build cars with good quality? But still people buy these cars…? In the 90s the Passat had a terrible quality level and lots of overall problems and still in the mid to late 00s the Passat still had a terrible quality and also a lot of rust problems. In the latest 5 years VW had dropped around 15 positions in Swedish “Vi bilägares” quality ratings with input from owners. And I remember when the car magazines did the first tests on ID models, they had a lot of problems during the test and questioned why VW let these cars out on the market without extensive testing and long distance testing.

[@momatedise]

ID software 2.4 was also a new 12v battery upgrade and some other physical things changed so that's why you can't upgrade OTA past 2.3. My 2020 ID3 has v3.2 and it's alot better than 2.1 and 2.3 I had before. Never encountered these problems on the newer software, and it's free to upgrade. I don't think it's fair to test it on old software when it should've been updated long time ago

What other physical things are changed?

[@momatedise]

​@some electrical junction box I belive

[@janjer5361]

@@momatedisefalse. In 2.4 Software “recall” they update the car and change the 12V battery.

[@ID.SuperFan-tq8xi]

@@janjer5361 There was also an inspection recall for faulty battery cells. As this car is still running on 2.4 nothing has been done.

[@janjer5361]

@@ID.SuperFan-tq8xiindeed it was, but with 3.2 update

[@dragosi8980]

coming here from Harry's garage

[@ashleymarden6927]

I own a Nissan ev200 van- 65 k miles . Whilst the advertised range was clearly over optimistic I can and do achieve 135 miles from 100% to as low as I dare. The battery still has 100% capacity. Japanese tech superior to other brands I believe.

[@maxprilmuller9461]

If you pressurise water it’s boiling and freezing points rise. That’s why Skates work on ice: you actually slide on a small film of water. It’s ice that melts while your skate is atop of it, and re-freezes immediately once the pressure of the skate blade is gone. Maybe the same thing can happen to snow in freezing conditions?

[@bsdpowa]

No car reviewer will touch this subject. They all talk about the design and how nice the touchscreen feels. Nothing about what's actually important.

[@sortiztube]

The comment about John Carmack is so funny

[@leos7471]

Seems like some bad cells, maybe worth updating to latest software then checking the battery. The only maneuvering possible triggers when some cells hit the lower threshold, which maybe some cells with resistance hit

[@roohi-zz]

I follow the same procedure to measure degradation but I always have larger degradation in winter than summer so this ID3 should also be tested in summer.

[@JohnSmith-ef8nr]

My 23 year old diesel van with 170000 miles on the clock still has the same 680mile fuel range as when it was new.

[@malcolmwhite6588]

You’re kidding right - don’t you have to only partly fill and not run it to empty and drive very gently at times. Don’t run the heater in order to get that.😂 and 23 years old what amazing technology! Whatever type of vehicle that is, we should keep driving it

[@topdownsheba]

What scanner do you use? P.S. Love your videos

[@stinekristiansen2936]

AFAIK salting the road lower the slippery phase down quite a bit from 0 celcius. So you are surprised with slippery roads on what should be a premium winter road surface.

[@matthewaride2234]

My 2012 , 2013 registered Nissan leaf still has 81.29% battery SOH after 11 years despite no active cooling. People say the old Nissan leaf are the worst battery ever made. Well my battery was used in cooler weather but I like to see how the new cars hold up when driven like the leafs in warmer temperatures where high degradation were recorded in the leafs. After Tesla,it's the leaf for me in battery degradation

[@mondotv4216]

I think the i3 cheats a bit by allocating reserve battery as it degrades.

[@Tomaskom]

The degradation seems fine if the car does not try to hide the initial degradation by biting off the buffers (like the Koreans do). For example my e-208 has ~5.5% degradation. It had essentially the same when I bought it second hand 1.5 years and 20k km earlier. Hasn't really moved since, maybe 0.4-0.5% change. Based on what I see in a relevant FB group, they all do that, going to ~5% in the first 6-12 months and then mostly stay there. So I'd say it's not what the degradation is in absolute numbers (unless its really high), but how fast it's moving after the initial ~5% kick in that are mostly unavoidable, only can be hidden by eating buffers, which some brands do. But extrapolating from the absolute value will not get you relevant results if you don't take this effect into account.

[@bjornnyland]

But don't you think 55.6 kWh is a bit low considering that 58 kWh is by specification?

[@stefanvanvuuren3931]

⁠​⁠@@bjornnylandI dont think I understand your question? Cause the new ID3 you tested 3 years ago had 55,6 -55,8kWh new. If you are referring to the difference in specification and actual measurements, I'm not sure how VW determined it, cause the ID3 77kWh pack also was only ~75kWh new. So it seems like they measured the theoretical netto pack capacity. Back to the car you tested I think 6% in the first 3 years is still perfectly acceptable degradation, most people expect up to 10% in the first few years anyway.

[@Tomaskom]

​@@bjornnyland It's not far off from what I would expect. If I take the ~5% degratation that happens quickly regardless, (even if you drive little over the first year), what is extra degradation here would be actually pretty good at 48k km. What is not good is extrapolating from that based on km driven (that many people tend to do), it does not take into account the initial fast degradation. Let's look at my e-208 again. It had 94.8% health when I bought it at 6k km and 2 years old. If I did simple extrapolation, it would have 22% degradation now at 25k km 1.5 years later. Pure nonsense. It has 94.3% health, 0.5% degradation over 19k km. Not bad, eh? Simple comparison of km and degradation just does not work well. Only after the initial degradation has landed, an unbiased starting point can berecorded (instead of assuming 100% health at 0km/0y). Mine could be an extreme example (not driving much in the first 2 years, showroom car), but it applies anywhere. Not hiding the start in a buffer is just an engineering choice IMO. The rate at which it rises after it is what matters 🙂

[@Picsou313]

Yikes, I'll keep my petrol car thank you.

[@tomashenzl1363]

@@bjornnyland 55,6 is from 100 to 0% only, but there is a buffer over 100% (when you fully charge on hill and recuperate downhill then) and second buffer below 0 until it dies. When you take in account these then new was 58 kWh certainly, maybe more. I agree, VW doesn't hide initial degradation into buffer so it is the reason why the degradation seems to be high here...

[@martyndyer4444]

Welcome to the joy of CARIAD software on MEB cars from VW group. I have Skoda Enyaq 2.5 years and still waiting on first OTA update. Charging in cold weather is not fun!!

[@ma40]

After VW’s head of charging comments at IAA 2023 I seriously doubt we will see on route battery preconditioning for existing cars. 2024 cars (including the Enyaq) have additional hardware and as far as I can tell that feature working well on the new ID.7 etc.

[@sbirchsbirch6232]

@@ma40 Oh I saw an ID.7 yesterday, driving out from a VAG dealership. Wonder if it is worth checking out, or if one should stay well away from VAG EVs for a year more.

[@sbirchsbirch6232]

Hi brother. I was an ID.3'er until I sold it again last spring. The combination of cold weather range drop and awful charging experience made me decide to sell it. I did like driving it a lot and made 16k. I noticed that in this video the software is the same 2.3.0 as when I sold my ID.3 18 months ago. Worrisome.

[@ma40]

@@sbirchsbirch6232 I really like the ID.7, even more so in wagon form. I’d have no issue buying another if it has battery preconditioning. Regarding software: I’m running 3.2, upgraded in June 2023. In the summer I hit 160kW at 13% state of charge on a FastNed unif (ID.4 1st Edition 77kWh). Winter charging performance is still an issue though

[@MrThomas0304]

When will you be testing BMW i5?

[@karl23103]

TDI is the way to go!

[@simonm1447]

Somebody who buys a VW diesel has lost the control over his life

[@DevajnK]

Do a Polestar2 ( gen 1 ) degradation! :D

[@Ian-tj9xx]

Now the ID3 costs $17,588 after taxes in China,the price is not bad.But I've just started working and am still considering to buy my first car. There will be more car options in 2024

[@Mr.X3D]

Welcome to the future 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@mihaapala]

degradation on my model 3 after 100k km is 4%. I usually charge to 50-70%.

[@lukewdk2482]

What are you using to see the degradation? Thanks

[@mihaapala]

@@lukewdk2482 I charge to 100% and look at rated range

[@ataksnajpera]

@@lukewdk2482 eyes. You are welcome.

[@ernieschatz3783]

Bjorn aint 'fraid of no ice! :

[@flaviandd]

It's the same car you tested for heating a few days before ? The same that was left plugged for a week or so at 100% battery ? Wonder about degradation if they treat it like that ?

[@petyapyatochkin9630]

Would be nice to see Cell voltage min an max at bottom end. At 3.8% dash avg cell voltage is 3.46, which is quite high.

[@TheLastOilMan]

The Swedes always lacking in motoring Newsweek when they sold SAAB

[@ChewableMeteor]

When the highland tests @bjorn

[@ID.SuperFan-tq8xi]

Very reasonable degradation and depends on how the car has been charged. It's also not linear.

[@Marcoza3]

The best try is make the difference at the same temperature: Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and lowers the capacity.

[@steveurmah]

Oh no, the red turtle! Very entertaining 😂

[@joseflor5186]

hi are you using Scan My Tesla on this car? And something I have been meaning to ask. Are you only doing tests on EV and not self recharging Hybrids, Thank you for all your work. Best wishes

[@MattiasTidlund]

There is a recall for all(?) early ID3 where they measure the battery modules and replace modules that are defective. Might affect this car, mine was scheduled for this campaign together with the 3.x update. But I sold it before my scheduled appointment. Had one of the firat 1st editions. Drive Tesla MY RWD now. Miss the ID3 sometimes, some kind of Stockholm syndrome i guess 😀

[@ID.SuperFan-tq8xi]

ID.3 has so many things done right and in a "traditional" way. Like door handles and automatic wipers that just work.

[@HansMilling]

“John Carmack would be turning in his bed”, that is hilarious. I wonder how many understood that.

[@ph8077]

I currently have a 2023 RS5 Vorsprung Coupe. You won't ever get me into one of those pieces of crap until I have no choice!

[@danielkliche3053]

The red turtle it's here 😂I celebrate your videos.well done . greetings from Germany 😀

[@ValMartinIreland]

How will it be at 8 years old?

[@andreatoffolo3488]

“The sun hai entered the chat” you killed me😂😂😂😂

[@maxfuchs3387]

What is the software called you use in the left phone? With the green interface. And which dongle do you combine with it?