2024 Monk Subclass tier Ranking in D&D 5e

[@HorizonOfHope]

Fun fact: Each week the Dungeon Dudes actually legally change their names to the ones shown on-screen. The official government office responsible for helping them is Canadian and therefore too polite to ask them to stop.

[@jjsmithy13]

The Ontarian government is anything BUT "too polite" :(

[@Wintermute909]

A polite Canadian government that *isn't* an authoritarian nightmare? Hooboy, that takes me back a decade or two!

[@screwbigtechsanti-sciencem9438]

Bingo. Original commenter is still living pre-911

[@brianbarrett6316]

Fun fact: it's a blink 182 reference. In the liner notes they always had different "nicknames" for the first few records.

[@jarvinnightwind]

@@Wintermute909 lol wanna join us south of the border?

[@iammattis1479]

One of the funniest things I’ve seen a Mercy monk do is that in a one shot, we had a party member who was downed and had failed a death save, so the monk used a bonus action punch to fully kill him and then used the 17th-level feature to heal him for way more than a healing flurry would have done.

[@josephschubert6561]

That feels so thematic for a Mercy Monk 😂

[@sammyb528]

Gotta say lads, I love the new layout of the subclass features breakdown at the beginning that has them all laid out so we don't have to go scrolling back through each section of the video to find each individual ability again. Rock on guys!

[@JohnnyLocke]

Hey big same!

[@t-ram1227]

One thing that I do think is a big point in Open Hand's favor is that most of its abilities don't burn any Focus Points. Aside from Quivering Palm, it's all just stuff you get for free (or just has a limited number of uses in the case of Wholeness of Body). It's true that losing ki isn't as big of a problem as it was in 2014, but if you're playing in a campaign that goes a long time between rests, Open Hand will still have a lot more staying power than the others

[@r3dblur114]

I didn't notice that, that such a good point

[@erikwilliams1562]

True. Another fun thing is the Fleet Step combined with charger or Grappler is just.....beautiful. The lvl 6 ability is ass though

[@FromMan2Monkey-nb5fq]

Not only is the level 6 ability ass, it’s also boring as hell. It’s crazy they didn’t change it up.

[@jf_kein_k8590]

Open Hand is essentially putting more monk in your monk.

[@r3dblur114]

@@jf_kein_k8590 truth bro. A monkier monk

[@Zagrakhen]

For reference, this is what Monty & Kelly gave to the Monk subclasses in the D&D 5e 2014 : Way of Mercy (= Warrior of Mercy) : A Way of Shadow (= Warrior of Shadow) : A Way of the Four Elements (= Warrior of the Elements) : D Way of the Open Hand (= Warrior of the Open Hand) : A

[@nuadai]

Just a small correction (not that it changes the ranking): *Way of the Ascendant Dragon (= Warrior of the Elements) : D

[@aarons2557]

@@nuadai wdym way of the ascendant dragon, this subclass is replacing the four elements monk, not ascendant dragon

[@nuadai]

@@aarons2557 well... Yeah, officially, but only in name. If you look at the features you'll see which one is the rework of which, and which is the imposter. Hint: It's painfully obvious that the new Elements Monk is the successor of the old Dragon Monk

[@aarons2557]

@nuadai mechanically very similar yes but the flavor is different so I count it as a replacement of four elements because that's whats intended

[@moonlight2870]

No, it isn't. It may have borrowed features from that (and I woukd say it borrows more features from sun soul, bu I digress), but it's a replacement for the old 4 elements monk. The fact that it resembles one more than the other doesn't change that. ​@@nuadai

[@Auesis]

A couple of slightly understated elements with Shadow Monk's Darkness. I've been playing one for a few sessions now and the Darkness blocking has not been an issue. It's very easy to just put the Darkness next to enemies instead of on top of them, while you're standing inside it 5ft away. You get all the benefits of being unseen by the enemy but your party can fight them unimpeded. Sometimes you do want to block an enemy's sight for the benefit of the party, but you always have the choice on each turn to just make it work for yourself instead of annoy anyone else. No components *at all* means a couple of important things - first it can't be Counterspelled, but second, the part I love the most - there is absolutely no indication that you cast it. It just happens without any way of knowing it was you. This has all kinds of RP potential. It lasts up to 10 minutes so you can create so much panic and chaos with it in a crowded/urban setting (add a few uses of Minor Illusion on top for maximum confusion) and nobody can ever trace it back to you.

[@undoapandu]

Good to know how you use the darkness spell! I made a shadow monk character for a new game because the theme works for my concept but was worried about how i use darkness in combat!

[@jonathanashton794]

That's good advice. I've had a shadow monk drop darkness on all the enemies before now, giving everyone (except them) disadvantage, rogues can't sneak attack, casters can't see anything to cast at. What you describe is the difference between a considerate player and a noob/inconsiderate player

[@jonathanashton7522]

@@Chaddingway not 100% what you mean by "it" here, but I can't see and components at all for Shadow Monk's Darkness or Shadow Step. Could you clarify please?

[@Chaddingway]

@jonathanashton7522 Oops I misread the feature. I thought it said material components and not spell components. I was wrong.

[@jf_kein_k8590]

With how good the Four Elements Monk is now, and the improvements to the Monk in general, there is hope for the Sun Soul to get its chance to shine.

[@Gabernel_]

As a DM I'd allow players to do radiant damage with Way of Elements Monk just for Fun haha. I think its good while we wait for oficial Radiant Soul

[@jackhilton4285]

I played a lvl 3 elemental monk and got nerfed from dm in the latest of the fight. Since my deflect attack reduce the damge between 8-17 every round from evil paladin attacks. And he had polearm master and sentinel feat which was usless against my 15 ft of range!!! So dm decided I don't use deflect attacks ever. I actually felt broken because he was an 8th lvl paladin against 4 of us (technically 2 because our mages died in first round imo). So I let him do his thing. Didn't care much since it was my first time playing 2024 monk

[@keonilewis6482]

Bro they basically just made the Sun Soul into the Four Elements Monk, I doubt we'll get it again

[@asilva4956]

I have no idea what sun soul could even do now. I'd give them an damage aura, an ki blast that works as unarmed strike for all purposes and the ability to fly. Even then it would just be four elements but reflavored.

[@Unicharged]

I see what you did there

[@erikwilliams1562]

Any Monk with the Grappler feat is an absolute menace and I love it! I really hope they add Kensei to a later book

[@matthewmuir8884]

Same; kensei monk is the monk subclass that I find most interesting, and with the addition of weapon mastery in 2024 5e, it would be neat to see it get an update.

[@naruto4685]

I'm playing a shadow monk and I'm about to hit level 4. I can't decide between grappler and weapon mastery for daggers

[@ericgonzales419]

​@@matthewmuir8884 agree; Kinsei is an obvious choice for introducing weapon mastery to the class

[@SortKaffe]

*Mercy* is a particularly effective *Grappler,* since applying the *Poisoned* condition gives the target Disadvantage on checks to escape the Grapple.

[@Auesis]

@@naruto4685 Weapon Mastery might look nice on paper with a few more points of DPR but I would take Grappler over it any day. You're getting so much more utility (and possibly damage) by moving enemies or even friends around (get the Fighter up to the front with you so they can start attacking 1 round earlier and that's already more damage than your daggers). It's also another source of advantage outside of relying on the darkness which in many situations could end up as more damage anyway. I've also gone Shadow Monk and took Grappler but I do love the flavor of daggers, so I've reskinned the Empowered Strikes to be shadowy daggers that deal Force damage.

[@destinydragon8312]

The fact monk went from "you wanna multiclass out of monk bc you dont wanna play monk" to all A's is so amazing to me.

[@alphacanios]

Currently playing a Shadow Monk in Curse of Strahd, it has been a blast!

[@jackhilton4285]

I played a lvl 3 elemental monk and got nerfed from dm in the latest of the fight. Since my deflect attack reduce the damge between 8-17 every round from evil paladin attacks. And he had polearm master and sentinel feat which was usless against my 15 ft of range!!! So dm decided I don't use deflect attacks ever. I actually felt broken because he was an 8th lvl paladin against 4 of us (technically 2 because our mages died in first round imo). So I let him do his thing. Didn't care much since it was my first time playing 2024 monk

[@Theinstrument_Mayonaise]

Nothing better than a lord of darkness experiencing a can of whoop ass.

[@odintheterridorable8097]

⁠@@jackhilton4285the DM should not be nerfing this, this is not okay. Presumably a Paladin would have multiple attacks (3 at level 8 with Polearm Master) and you can only deflect one per round since you only get one reaction until the start of your next turn. This is not broken

[@lumisussy]

@@jackhilton4285 That sucks, there are lots of ways to get around your strengths for a challenging fight and I don't think I'd ever straight up turn off one of my player's abilities without a solid in-game reason.

[@undoapandu]

How have you been using the darkness spell so far? Is it just situational or most fights? Are you able to move it out of the way for the rest of your party in a way that works for you and them?

[@Weirdwolf22]

Right at 13:58 when Monty says “there’s nothing that makes me go-“ I got an ad that was just a marching band drummer. Timing was exquisite.

[@dabeef2112]

IMHO Mr. Miyagi was a mercy monk. I mean he did use his hands to heal Daniel...

[@theformation3781]

I think one incredible thing about open hand monk is it's consistency. Take a mid-level campaign for example, you're going to run into a devil with truesight or poison immunity, or a dragon with blindsight, or some other creatures too large to grapple or, as a weapon user, you have hard time toppling because topple targets con saves, basically situations where you will have issues flexing the entirety of your kit. Your open hand monk's got you though. They generate their own advantave just through a dex save topple, they move around the battlefield with a dash+flurry+disengage as well if there are well spaced enemies via addle, their action economy is actually incredible because flurry+addle+step of the wind gives you pretty much all you need in 1 bonus action, and their level 17 nuke potential is crazy, their average damage at level 17 is more than a wizard firing off a 9th level disintegrate (and they can do that for 3 rounds straight, using a resource that recharges entirely on a short rest). I don't necessarily disagree with open hand at B because it doesn't sell itself as well as the other classes but in terms of pure power it's pretty much on par. Other cool things btw: 1. Shadow monk capstone means combined with perfect metabolism they will never not have ki points for a combat since that plus darkness means they have everything they need for the entire combat. 2. The elements monk level 6 feature is also kind of mediocre and imo slightly worse than wholeness of body since at level 11 the latter can still work as a get out of jail card as it comes with dash+disengage built in if you use 1 ki point and fleet step. Some caster already has an AOE spell. 3. Fleet step also synergises with orc's bonus action dash, and since they are different features with separate names, you can move 180 feet at level 11 while keeping your action intact if you have speedy, or 240 feet if you dash as an action too. That, combined with bonus action healing means even relentless endurance is better than usual. Now, fleet step is also obviously really good on aasimar or a dragon born, but something to consider. Monks have been my favourite class and one of the reasons i half shifted to pathfinder 2e, it's been incredible seeing them finally fixed!

[@paulthomson8896]

I think this is a good point and an easy thing to overlook with the open hand monk. At low level topple weapon mastery is great, but from mid to high levels con saves go through the roof and dex saves gradually become one of the best to target, beaten out only by int.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

I somehow overlooked that Fleet Step is _any_ bonus action other than Step of the Wind, not just monk-class-provided bonus actions. I foresee lots of fun for monks with a few levels in another class (which I've had happen a couple times with a character starting out on another path before devoting themself to self-cultivation).

[@SortKaffe]

Being able to start with a Bonus Action attack _(or Flurry of Blows)_ for *Topple* is an amazing buff to Open Hand Monks that want to save their Attack action untill the enemy is *Prone,* ideally using the *Nick* weapon mastery to make 3 attacks with *Advantage.*

[@theformation3781]

@SortKaffe exactly, especially considering they get the most attacks out of a potential topple (2-3, instead of just 1-2 usually for other martials, though the latter can force that save at least twice) so mixed with it targeting a dex save, pretty good!

[@FromMan2Monkey-nb5fq]

If you have flying speed (or can jump high enough) you can continue to push enemies up with open hand technique similar to elements monk right? Since the wording is away and not directly away.

[@DungeonCrawlDave]

I live for the occasions when Monty and Kelly start arguing tongue in cheek about whether a subclass is A or A- The nerdiness and heart-warming friendship flies off the charts!

[@Sirfinchyyy]

Some things never change😊.

[@TandemTuba]

Elemental Monk scratches that Avatar itch better than I knew it was mechanically possible. Like grapple them with water, then use earth to encase them and keep them in place while I pepper them with air and fire blasts. I was smiling ear to ear the first time I heard you guys describe the subclass.

[@heathengypsy]

I swear you guys must of read my mind, here I am trying to create a monk for a brand new campaign I’m about to start and I thought, “well let’s see what the Dungeon Dudes say.” And you’d just uploaded a video on the subject. 😄😄 Perfect timing.

[@karatekoala4270]

22:45 its weird of Monty to say he let him get away with some things when shadows only don't exist in complete darkness. Shikamaru from Naruto shows just how common and sneaky shadows are.

[@AwesomeWookiee]

Warrior of the Elements can also deal Thunder damage, which is important if you want to play Spider-Man's deadliest foe: Upholstery Man! (Shocker)

[@syckledblayze]

I'm so happy to see a Shard sponsorship from you guys. I'm one of their partner DMs, and I did a doubletake when I heard the ad start.

[@verdurite]

Herbalism kit can help you craft potions of pugilism, so it is very good on way of mercy

[@griffalo1013]

Cool that the Monk has gone from "If you're not playing Open Hand you're doing it wrong" to "Eh, Open Hand is fine I guess."

[@Sethmacd0]

The main reasons for this are, the other subclasses got boosted and the quivering palm got nerfed

[@twoshu8940]

Mercy was better than open hand before, open hand was just fine. Bg3 is a diff beast

[@Yueff]

Warrior of Elements also has some great flavor for grappling opponents. Like you could say that you’re manipulating the earth around their feet to hold them in place or you shoot ice to freeze them or even an electrical shock.

[@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz]

32:00 Hmmm, a Monk Subclass without the need to dip fighter to get Weapon Masteries... Sign me up! 😁 'Warrior of the Serpent' redesign for DnD Beyond FTW!!! 😎

[@nocteexmortis979]

Hey guys, just a minor correction: most Monks will not be taking Crusher, as Crusher only works on Bludgeoning damage, and their ability to do damage shifts DRAMATICALLY at level 6 with the change to being able to do Force damage all the time with their Unarmed Strike. I mean, Crusher is nice, but Force damage is incredible, and nothing Crusher does really stands out with Tavern Brawler, Grappler, and Elements or Open Hand being available.

[@paulthomson8896]

A bit of an aside to this: Tavern Brawler is interesting for a monk. It feels really nice, but it's actually typically worth slightly less damage (0.42 damage per hit with a D6 scaling to 0.46 damage per hit with a D12 - which is then reduced by accuracy) than Savage Attacker, which is generally considered a really weak feat compared to something like Alert or Tough. Unless you really want the semi-regular 5ft push it's worth looking at other fun choices like Magic Initiate, or Alert for more turns in combat. This has the added benefit of not forcing a sailor or custom background.

[@MrSeals1000]

​@@paulthomson8896The push is the whole reason to take it. The microscopic increase in damage is just a nice tag along.

[@paulthomson8896]

​@@MrSeals1000 I agree, that's valid if you want to build that way. I still think it's interesting though, in looking more attractive than it ends up being. Two of the four monk subclasses (from the 2024 PHB) have repeated saves against 10/15ft pushes per turn baked in to their abilities, so a 5ft push probably doesn't make all that much difference for them. It's more attractive for Mercy and Shadow paths. Even then there's significant tension from mid levels onwards because Grappler, Tavern Brawler and Weapon Master all require use of attacks as part of an attack action and you only get two of those. Technically you can grapple and push on the same action, but that would usually be self defeating, which means the push can just end up as insurance from fairly early levels onwards, essentially seeing use only on levels 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7.

[@Zabber44]

Other things to note: As a DM I also went over it with one of my Players who is going to be a Monk Warrior Of The Elements in the new Campaign I am starting. I had mentioned that, out of technicality you can grapple 15ft with Elemental Attunement. (5ft base + 10ft extra reach) With that being said, while you're attune your Flying speed and Swim Speed equal to your movement. You can technically grapple someone off the ground and into the air like you're a Sith Lord. What's worse is, if another party member has x AoE in the vicinity of the monk / grappled creature, the grappled creature will take fall damage. (After falling the first ten feet, a character has a chance to receive 1d6 of fall damage. Every additional ten feet adds another d6, for a maximum of 20d6). This also doesn't include the AoE's effects / damage once entered. I'm not saying It's S tier but... You can do some S tier things with this build with a caster heavy party.

[@20storiesunder]

Ranged grapple doesn't persist beyond the attack mind you.

[@bernardofabrica]

One of the things i like about the open hand monk is that by RAW (as far as I can see) they are able to add their lvl 3 feat with the modifier from tavern brawler/charger/grappler. So in theory you could be a hill goliath monk which specializes in performing an opening suplex-into-hold every combat xD

[@erikwilliams1562]

I'm literally building a Fire Goliath open palm monk with charger and Grappler. Pretty much a big drunken brawler. Can't wait to try it! Don't know if you can topple or push enemies in the grappled condition though. ...🤔

[@bernardofabrica]

​@@erikwilliams1562 well, pushing and grappling seem pretty much mutually exclusive. But looking at the feats descriptions, I don't see why you couldn't apply the topple tech from open hand and the 1-per-turn free grapple from grappler to the same attack roll. In the same way, it seems that with a run up of 10 ft you can possibly push an enemy 30 ft away (5 Tavern Brawler+10 Charger+15 Open Hand). Not anything game breaking on its own, but with a party with the right synergies it can become very powerfull

[@greyelf1537]

Open Hand monk is a great candidate for grabbing a weapon mastery feat by grabbing a 1 level fighter dip for two weapon fighting and nick mastery, then using flurry of blows to trip a target, and then getting three more attacks with daggers with the attack action (assuming 5 monk/1 fighter). and I do think there is definitely value in opening up for more feat options by already having a few of them built into the subclass. It's the Champion of the monk class, but still good.

[@99subetai]

33:18 @Kelly McLaughlin: "I still think teleporting can't be understated." If something can't be "understated," then it's meaningless. If something is really important or powerful in the game, it can't be "overstated!" ;) Love ya, guys! Enjoyed your show for years. I've seen that error a few times, finally wanted to bring it up. Wish you well in all things.

[@ogrokun]

Honestly saying, I believe that Open Hand may be behind on some people tastes due to being a "vanilla monk", but I strongly believe all of the 4 monk subclasses are A tier material. Things that I found missing from your take on the Open Hand Monk: - Open Hand is the "Monkiest Monk", similar to Hunter for Ranger and Berserker for Barbarian. If you want to play a karateka/kungfu/judoca master that is not a ninja, doctor or anime character, Open Hand is your way to go - Yes, with Shadow your monk will have advantage on all attacks made against your enemies. And you will annoy all your allies that can't see in magical darkness. Open Hand on the other way, can use flurry to Topple the enemy (with no extra focus cost), and the whole party has advantage against it. The monk may even drag the enemy using what is left of their movement to a better position so everyone may beat it. - Open Hand with Grappler feat is also a great grappler character. Make the enemy prone with Topple, punch and grab with Grappler, and their speed becomes zero. This means that the enemy will only get up from prone condition if they escape from the grapple first. Poisoned condition may be cool, but lasts one round. This one may last longer without extra focus costs. - Wholeness of Body is more limited than Hands of Healing, but it does not uses focus. - As you well mentioned in Way of the Shadow, teleport adds a different mode of mobility to a class that is already mobile. But Shadow still have to choose their bonus action between teleporting or attacking. Fleet Step allows the OH to choose both. While Teleporting is movement unrestricted by barriers or enemies, I prefer the option to double dip in attacks + movement.

[@dustinwhite3800]

Oh I can’t wait for this one! I’ve been waiting for y’all to do monks ever since the PHB came out

[@gamepire5312]

i've already made a mercy monk with the new rules and i'm waiting in anticipation like a little child on christmas for the day when i get to play the new monk^^

[@M_M_ODonnell]

Is there a rule written somewhere that a grappled creature can only attempt to escape if they're within melee range of the grappler? If not, then with Way of Four Elements a grapple at least can make an enemy use their whole action to escape the grapple (unless they have something like Misty Step, etc.) instead of attacking, but the enemy isn't _completely_ helpless. Also - there's a vibe affinity between the Warrior of Mercy's "I'm going to beat the injuries out of you" and Grave Domain's "I'm going to wait until you _need_ healing (i.e. wait until you're at 0hp)" (hope they bring that subclass back for 2024e). Now if I can find a way to bring in Fallen London's "I sneak away from my wounds"...

[@robertjenkins417]

I think the Elemental Warrior should also get a Burrow speed when it gets Flying and Swimming. If Flying is Air/Fire, Swimming is Water, Burrow is Earth.

[@FromMan2Monkey-nb5fq]

That shit sounds broken, no? Isn’t burrowing speed really really powerful defensively?

[@MrSeals1000]

​@@FromMan2Monkey-nb5fqIn moooost cases it's no more broken than flying. But yeah, it's the reason why so many ethereal creatures _can_ phase into the ground, but they do so at half speed and take damage if they end their turn inside of something.

[@sauljaffe4268]

Here's a nice little combo (I think) if your DM is allowing 2014 species: tabaxi way of the shadow monk. Turn 1: use Feline Agility to double your speed and punch away. Turn 2: use Shadow Step (doesn't use movement) to get next to some creature and punch away. Turn 3: double your speed to move around and punch... rinse and repeat. Add Step of the Wind when you have movement if you need to for Dash/Disengage, and you can get pretty much anywhere on the battlefield as needed or catch up to most fleeing creatures, or escape combat...

[@themithralcanvas]

Really loving how solid the Warrior of Mercy feels as a basis for subclass design.

[@derekconnolly1157]

I really enjoy these videos and your discussions. I would like the description of SABCD tiers to be abbreviated since it’s in every one of them.

[@TheTimadin]

Open hand is an A. You can take ASI's instead of taking feats (like crusher and other mentioned in the video) and increase your dex and wisdom which makes your attacks hit more often, raises your AC, and makes stunning strike more effective.

[@MrHayden123982]

I’d say Warrior of Shadow does fit more of a B for me with Monty’s points. If it’s day out, yeah maybe you find a shadow but you have to teleport to a shadow too so how often is that actually where you want to go. Also, the darkness spell can be really difficult for any other martials in the party so somewhat of a subclass that depends on what your party is playing too and talking with them about your darkness spell

[@jefftaylor206]

Playing a tabaxi warrior of shadow monk in our new campaign. Already had crazy mobility but with Feline agility it is even more nuts. On first move can go 90ft (level 7) and if dashed even further. I am the only one that has not been hit yet in any of our encounters with deflect/redirect attacks and being able to run in attack, stun/push them away and run back out. I am loving it so far.

[@JasonJones-e7l]

I totally agree with the Kill Bill reference for Quivering palm, but as a father of lots of children, I envision it like the Wuxi Fingerhold!

[@dallinadams9422]

It's definitely fun when you can coordinate your party around certain strategies. Darkness is fun to coordinate as you can coordinate with a warlock as well as with people who take the blind fighting style to give the entire party advantage on attacks and disadvantage to the enemies.

[@BeanzimusPrime]

I think the one thing I really dig about Open Hand Monk is that it plays in to a non-magical character Fantasy. I'm about to play an Open Hand Monk 6 Battle master 3 with a Great Club and a Sling, and I'm just so, so excited to play a powerful character who has no reliance on magic at all thematically

[@mojojomoo]

I have made a hand full of 2024 characters so far but the first chance I got to play one I went with the Elements monk and so far it has been well worth it and a great choice. So much fun and so much grappling. Being a battlefield controller and disruptor is everything I had hoped it would be.

[@Klaital1]

I think elements is still S, it gives you concentration free flight, combined with 15 feet reach, that is such an amazing synergy.

[@20storiesunder]

And the ability to push/pull 3-5 times a turn.

[@PhoenixNorthstar]

As someone who has been playing Monks since 2nd E I do love what they've done with them. I've been wanting to play a mercy monk since that subclass was released and the 2024 rules only make it better. I do like the idea that was briefly mentioned of redesigning the Kensai subclass with the weapon mastery abilities. I could see it working like the 2024 Battlemaster Fighter, where you not only have your usual mastery for whatever weapon you are using but can have a small selection that the class is given and you can spend a focus point to add both the weapons standard mastery and one of your choice to a single attack. Throw in extra weapon options (I always wanted to make an Onabu-Geisha themed monk with a glaive), maybe a smite style extra damage option like the 2014 one had (make it free when you use the double weapon mastery?) Include the 2014 ability that says your monk weapons count as magical for overcoming resistance or straight up extend the force damage option from your unarmed strike to your kensai weapons, maybe upgrade it so the weapon you choose to designate as your kensai weapon gains other magical properties in your hands.

[@BlueCorvidae]

My dm just switched to the new rules, I was a ascended dragon monk, meaning at L6 I could fly I gave that up to switch to way of the elements grappler and am so excited. Finally! Real ranged attacks!

[@Voriclexx]

I’m with Monty, I’m a mage at heart and the new Element Monk makes me excited to play one. I might try out a Mercy monk if no one is playing a healer but Elements is very exciting

[@austenashtree9542]

I'm so exited for the warlock rankings! I also hope they add the tempest cleric back in a later book

[@anthonylvl4]

Me too! I hope they do them next

[@evancarlson5805]

Cool. You might notice that this video is about monks though lol

[@Exaltable]

@@evancarlson5805hey, it’s free to not be a dick

[@JugglingAddict]

@@anthonylvl4 Kobold getting free sorcerer cantrip is great for a tempest cleric.

[@jackhilton4285]

I'm really unfortunate now with wizards Our camp switches to 2024 in 1 month ahead and I'm the least changes between our warlock,paladin, driud and bard AnD they all are PH subclasses but mine is order of scribe so you can see it's not that great when you get basically nothing in New update. Class or subclass

[@MrVulcanidic]

I'm starting my first 2024 campaign tomorrow and I can't wait! I'm playing a human Charlatan (double skilled!) shadow monk. I'm a rogue monk and it's going to be awesome!

[@NartrachGaming]

Open hand monk is the monk that monk the most 41:33

[@superj1010]

14:52 Spoken like a true Shadow Sorcerer.

[@DungeonDudes]

I have a type…

[@altogrey9712]

36:26 Yes, the boss monster has Legendary Resistance, but I doubt any boss monster wants to deal with being stunned, and heart stopped twice, so if they just blow through their LegRes now, thats a win for the monk.

[@TheMemitim]

You forgot to mention that Mercy was changed from Tasha's in that the 11th level feature can only be used wisdom mod per long rest instead of just how much ki/focus you have. So that means if you assume 20 wisdom, and replaced 2 attacks with healing and 1 with harm, that's 3/5 uses down in 1 round.

[@colonelcabbage]

Yes, I think they missed that, but I also think that their out of combat scenario just used the 3rd level feature

[@victort478]

Yeah, that’s a big nerf indeed.

[@cenauge]

Elements probably comes closest to being S-tier. Elemental strikes get you around damage resistances (3 levels ahead of other monks) and let you take advantage of the odd weakness here and there. Increased attack reach is a level of safety other monks do not have, as you can Flurry of Blows and then move away rather than use Patient Defense or Step of the Wind. Elemental Burst is not a lot of damage, but it is a pretty big AoE and doing damage out at 120 feet range is completely foreign to other monks. Flight is just always good and not something that can be replicated by other monks (though Shadows can come closer through teleporting if the terrain allows) and being able to fly above targets and rain down elemental fists is again an increase in safety. That's to say nothing of the very fun and cinematic stuff you can do with this monk's maneuverability plus grappling. Elemental Epitome makes Step of the Wind deal damage to potentially every enemy on the field (potentially every round if there are enough enemies to make it worth it) which softens them up for your single-target damage dealing party members and AoE casters alike. And if there is no reason to use Step of the Wind, you still get an extra d12 damage on one of your strikes.

[@20storiesunder]

Well said!

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

Elemental Attunement's ability to pull people in is also very unique. While push effects are extremely common now, pull effects are rare-- the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Thorn Whip, Swarm Keeper, and Armorer. All of those have restrictions, but the monk ability doesn't.

[@20storiesunder]

@@NotYourAverageNothing I do wonder what the use case will be. I can see one cool thing. One, you can do a ranged grapple. This normally would only persist until the attack was completed - the extra range is only for the duration of the attack. However if you pull them in to you then they remain grappled. So imagine this, you strike the two bodyguards and push them away, move forward and hit their leader wizard. You pull them, grab them and move backwards out of the range of the bodyguards. You could be an extremely effective mage slayer.

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

@@20storiesunder While it's a feat you'd want anyway, Grappler's Punch and Grab is required to combine the push/pull effect with grappling because it only works when you deal one of the elemental damage types. So only once per turn, but still good though. A common use for this would be pulling enemies out of hazard spells so you can push them back in. And of course pulling enemies into the air for falling damage+prone.

[@20storiesunder]

@NotYourAverageNothing Oh yeah was assuming grappler, it's a no brainier for this subclass.

[@LoboDeNoche87]

So excited to try the new elements monk! I feel like the new PHB understood the assignment. All powerful and balanced just like the monk itself.

[@vladimirserpov6773]

DMed one-shot for 2 parties in 5.24, both had monks. Monks are wildly strong and very fun to play now, no matter which sub-class one picks :)

[@Dragongamz1]

I've always loved martial arts, in films, tv, and writing. I've always been a fan of the Monk class for the longest time. Now I'm absolutely excited to try out the new 2024 Monk. I'm most excited about the possibility of playing a Warrior of Mercy or Elements Monk

[@TrevBauer]

Your video going over the 2024 phb made me really want to play a monk. Our group is now level 2 and I'm trying to decide on what subclass I want to roll. Leaning hard towards warrior of elements because that battlefield control is so juicy! And grappling at 15ft gives me flashbacks of my brother holding me at arms length trying to hit him...

[@drakeking6745]

I think woth the warrior of mercy, the level 17 feature is around the time when paladins and rangers get 5th level spells, so i like that monk gets it aroundthe same time as them at least

[@brake2320]

No way guys! I was just trying to look if you already did a video about 2024 monk subclasses and now you posted. Thanks!

[@TheWeirdlyenough]

I think you guys did a great job rating all of the new sub classes, but you should reconsider four elements monk. This is due to how powerful it combos with emenation spells such as spirit guardians and conjure minor elementals. Giving a grappler build the mobility of a monk along side the ability to grapple more than one enemy from a distance could trivialize combat. To be fair, other monks could/would do the same thing anyway but if we agree that the four elements monk is the class that you want to be working with for focusing on grappling then i say it should be bumped up.

[@jamesknowles9236]

Open hand is to the monk like Champion is to the fighter. It's a very basic and simple subclass that new (or just lazy) players can take without adding the extra planning and bookkeeping required by the other subclasses.

[@joshlewis8860]

I already have a character and backup made, but 100% my next character is a grappling 4 elements monk. It looks like SO much fun

[@AMillennialNerd]

I'm gonna run a Tales of the Valiant campaign soon and my 10-year-old is going to play a Monk. He's a Dragon Ball and The Last Airbender fan (as am I), but in ToV the Elemental Monk subclass is not available yet, so I'm pretty excited to port it from the D&D 2024 PHB and make my baby happy! 🥰👊🏽

[@christopherroebuck5344]

I just played an Open Hand Monk in a one shot at level 6. I took Tavern Brawler and Crusher. Honestly I had so much fun just moving enemies around and I ended up having to rely on the wholeness of body feature quite a bit too because the DM started sending monsters after me. It’s firmly an A Tier subclass for me.

[@megaslayer321a]

I feel the archtype for Open Palm is that of the 'true' martial artist where everything comes back to the discipline, honour, and art of martial arts.

[@sammaertens7489]

Being a huge ATLA fan, when I initially read through the subclasses, I really thought that Elements was so much better and just really cool as a whole. It’s still cool, but the more times I went through things, the more it felt kind of bland, although still generically quite strong, especially at 3rd level. Reach - Always good Changing DMG type - Always good Potentially moving foes around - Always good Elementalism - Fluff It’s good, in combat, and it offers nothing else until flight at level 11. Even level 6 isn’t that great of a feature. Feel like they stuff Sun Soul, Ascendant Dragon, and Four Elements into one class. If that’s your thing, then you will have fun. Hopefully your DM allows you to grapple at 15 feet. Might still try it later down the line, but it’s just not selling for me.

[@Theinstrument_Mayonaise]

I would say mercy can also benefit from Grappler simple cause if I’m running around helping my allies I might as well carry them out of danger or move them to better positions while I’m running around. Or the best thing is I get advantage on grappler creature and with hand of harm I’m gonna want to crit fish if I can. But that’s what so great about the monk class now is that I’m not optimizing to make it playable it’s already playable I can just pick a feat that I think would work best

[@dallinadams9422]

Another fun thing about monks, they are great with dual wielding. They can essentially get 6 attacks per turn when given weapon masteries.

[@DrgnDrake]

Is there anything stopping a Warrior of the Elements from flying above (whether from their lvl 11 feature or another way) an enemy and pulling them 10 feet into the air every time they punch them, causing them to fall 10 ft with every hit?

[@nathanchortek6730]

Nope, and that’s exactly what you should do if you can! Additional 1d6 on every attack from the fall damage. The only caveat is that you have disadvantage attacking prone characters unless you’re within 5 feet of them, so you’ll want a method of generating advantage to counteract that (the Grappler feat is a great candidate here for the Monk)

[@JugglingAddict]

@@nathanchortek6730 Which makes dragonborn a pretty fun race, since we can replace an attack with a cone/line after bunching up a bunch of foes that are maybe also prone and be really disruptive. 🤣😆😁 Bonus points if we combine it with other spells/feature from party members.

[@DrgnDrake]

@@nathanchortek6730 Now that brings up a fascinating thought. If you grapple from range, can you still push or pull, or does doing so break the grapple? I think according to grapple rules as long as they are within your range it sticks so it'd be safe?

[@jackhilton4285]

With 50 feet of movement in turn (65 With race and speedy feat). You make 1 grapple attack, after success you spend 1 point for EA and make 1 attack and 3 more with FOB. Then drag them to the air (take grappler if you want full drag) and drop em That's 6d10+4d10+20 dmg. Not broken in this level but so crazy. And they are prone too

[@chrisg8989]

@@DrgnDrake nope. Super strong. Better yet, grapple 2 enemies and drag them over a long drop.

[@colonelcabbage]

Open Hand is an A. Sure level 6 is meh, but being able to add the Open Hand techniques on top of other attack conditions, and then use Fleet Step is amazing. You can grapple someone, do 5 attacks then drag them up a wall and drop them. Alternatively you can do 5 attacks and then take an ally with you with the level 10 Step of the Wind Feature.

[@sohkaswifteagle2604]

Shadow monk is not only movement to 11 he also dish out more damage then the monk of mercy by gaining advantage on all his attack. The free teleport also allows him to explore the dungeon way easier. Oha big porticulisthat would make a lot of noise if we open it and would attract all the guards? banf on the other side without being notice. And if he get discover... he can quickly banf back on the other side and it will take a few rounds for the enemies to open it. or if their is a illuminated room, you can skip it by teleporting across. Shadow monk give advantage to the monk attacks. No other monk have an inate way to gain advantage on ALL there attacks I did build a shadow monk for my girlfriend and when she cast her darkness spell, centered on herself (yes she could move the spell 60 at the beginning of the turn, but she can also have the spell cast on her dagger so the darkness spell follow her around) so with her 50ft movement she move in 25ft, attack with advantage using both her actions nd bonus action and move out (since the target do not see her there is no attack of opportunity) 25ft so the rest of the party can attack the target without being hindered by the darkness. Sure the healer cannot heal her with range healing spell that require to see the target, But if she really need healing she can stow the dagger in her pocket (completely covering it) as a free action after having moved to safety and voila the cleric can see her heal her. Then she can move back in combat, retrieve the dagger from her pocket (as part of the attack itself) and be back in complete darkness with free advantage. And even if she would get stuck near the target with her darkness active, that just mean the rest of the party cannot gain advantage nor disadvantage on there attacks and between skulsker giving blindsight, fighting style giving blind sight, warlock devil sight, find familiar (bat) that ANYONE can grab with magic initiate wizard origin feat at level 1 and see thought the eye of the blindsight bat, it's easy for anyone to adapt to a character using darkness. Sure in a setting like adventurer league, it might be a bit harder to do since you cannot always talk with all the party members to make a synergistic group. But in most home game, with a session 0 I can say: hey guys I intend to play a shadow monk using shadow so if you want to try to get a way to see through it it will benefit you as well... and as I said, simply take Magic initiate (Wizard) and grab find familiar as you spell level 1 (I suggest mage hand and minor illusion for the 2 cantrip) and you can benefit from all 3 spell even with a 8 intellect barbarian since none of those spell require a saving throw nor concentration Even outside on a bright day... I mean between the darkness spell, and only your campaign occur on a flat empty savana without any trees, anr rock, small creatures.... and even then I mean the party can CHOOSE to adventure at night and take the long rest during the day for example. And I mean session 0 exist for this reason. If during session 0 the DM warn us that this adventure will have many outdoor encounter maybe I'll go play that elemental monk who can fly instead, and if the DM warn us we will be stuck in dark cave with low ceiling all the time, well the flight ability of the elemental monk is less desirable but my shadow monk become more interesting.

[@st0nefingers]

Despite I also got excited with that article talking about grappling at 15ft, I'm still concerned about if that how it works RAW. Elements: "When you make an Unarmed Strike, your reach is 10 feet greater than normal...". Grapple: "The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you, and it must be within your reach". Grappled: "The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect". My trouble comes taking into account the condition that after you made your Unarmed Strike at +10ft, your reach is no longer more than 5ft (until you make another unarmed strike, and so on). I don't know if after you grappled at +10ft, the grapple would automatically end, because your extra reach ended. 🤔🤔 Help?

[@20storiesunder]

The article is wrong unfortunately. Those ddb articles are written by third parties, not designers. The grapple unfortunately breaks right after the attack, unless you pull them to you.

[@villesavolainen5793]

The Open Hand Monk is very thematic as a pure unarmed/martial fighter that doesn't have any weird magic stuff going on. Just bludgeoning damage in a fair melee combat and great mobility. Couple it with Tavern Brawler and Grappler, and all abilities are still mundane skills!

[@zero11010]

27:56 hardly matters because this is so late almost no one gets to this level … but … once per turn isn’t the same as once per round. If during another person’s turn you get to attack … like a battlemaster’s combat maneuver or an opportunity attack … it’s a different turn and you can do the extra damage again. That’s fun! It’s a very small amount of extra damage at this level …. But maybe getting to do it two or even three times per round could be fun!

[@Tusitala1967]

I like hearing references to Monty's Red Hand of Doom campaign. I'll run it one day.

[@Caliburn0s]

Yooo that tease 32:07 I’m so ready for a monk with weapons I want my gunk!!

[@stephancardenas-navarro127]

My issue with the open hand monk is the same one that I have with the Hunter subclass in the Ranger... Their stuff should be integrated with the main class instead of being a whole subclass. When THE dudes were saying "what makes the previous subclasses (A) worth, while Open Hand being only worth (B)", It popped out clearly "Subclasses are specializations" and "Open Hand is a Generalist", it simply does not deliver in that regard. Have the same limitations that red mages had within themselves in Final Fantasy series; they could use spells, meleé weapons and even some minor healing, but they were never the best or even good at any of those tasks. In this regard I really have preferred the mentioned Kensei or my favorite from Tasha's: Astral Monk (Wisdom based Jojo Stand with ora ora ora and muda muda muda flurry of blows) being added as fourth or fifth subclasses instead of Open Hand.

[@dustingibbs8150]

I had a hand of mercy monk in my 2 year strahd campaign. He could quite easily run 120ft every turn. And was just throwing out hands of healing all the time and never could be stopped because of mobile and used crusher in the most beautiful ways. This version is better than the 5e we had. For me, it's an S, but he was a very creative player and it was wonderful

[@satiricalsatyr9463]

the elemental monk can deal 4d6+3 times monk martial arts die in one round starting at level 11. You can do this by going 15 feet above an enemy, attacking them, grapple them as part of the first attack, move them 15 feet above you, and then finally push them 10 foot higher out of your grapple range which is 3 attacks in total and a 45 foot drop for the enemy

[@bigdream_dreambig]

I'm so glad we can now say that the Monk has been Fixed. I wish that was true of all the classes... I really hope that, when they publish the 2024-esque update to the Artificer, they take another run at the Ranger at the same time.

[@K3wlLevi]

Can't wait to play elements monk in our campaign!! Not picking up the grappler feat, but I'm taking advantage of the new hit die buff to make the Handaxes do more damage. The character plan is a Dragonborn Monk, strapped all over his body with a dozen Handaxes. Seriously so pumped for this load out!

[@20storiesunder]

Why no grappler? A dragonborn can grab someone, fly in the sky and absolutely destroy them.

[@TerribadAthlete]

Had a thought… the Elements monk sounds like you could flavor it in such a way that one could role play a Siren from the Borderlands series. I’m thinking specifically Amara because she changes elements more often than the others

[@violetbliss4399]

I think open hand is honestly still an A, but it is really really vanilla workhorse compared to the others. Not a bad thing maybe, but my last choice for sure. :D Oh, forgot to add, love the video! I think you laid it out really well.

[@khultak]

Something I didn't hear commented on, but the level 11 warrior of the elements fly doesn't require concentration which makes it so much better than spell versions.

[@shoulung6203]

As an alternate perspective, hand of healing detracts from what a monk does, punching things, by requiring on of their flurry of blows attacks.

[@sinlesskiller1741]

Hell yeah been waiting for this episode huge elemental monk fan

[@abydosianchulac2]

The Elemental Attunement seems to give some really interesting utility to those 15' grapples, because I'd argue it's hard to rationalize a bear hug would be acceptable but holding something "with your hands" wouldn't. Latch on a door is frozen shut, why can't you grab it with fire imbued to slowly thaw it out? Laying a trap for someone who'd been coming onto your property, why can't you grab your wrought iron fence with lightning imbued so you can find them when they yelp from the shock? Wandering through a maze, why can't you imbue your attacks with acid or fire and etch your path in any metal, stone, or wood elements you pass?

[@BobHerzog1962]

Woth Weapon Madter Feat and a Nick Monk Weapon you could sneak in a 6th attack in. But i guess that one couldn't be used in the quivering palm routine.

[@TandemTuba]

It almost feels like Open Hand suffers from the opposite of Elements in that it had such a small glow up the knee jerk is to rake it lower. Really sick seeing a class have such tight banding though. Solid B through A+ is like the dream of where you want all your subclasses to fall.

[@TheWanderersWit]

Flurry of Healing and Harm When you use Flurry of Blows, you can replace each of the Unarmed Strikes with a use of Hand of Healing without expending Focus Points for the healing. This gets kinda insane by 20. 1d12+7 Charisma Mod = 13.5 average healing. Heightened Focus = 3 Flurry of Blows attacks. 3* 13.5 = 40.5 average healing. You can do this 7 times at 20. 7*40.5=283.5 average healing for 7 focus points over the course of an adventuring day. By level 12 with a 4 charisma mod you're doing 28.5 four times for 114 average healing per long rest. Those are numbers that not only get an ally up, but can maybe even get them back in a fight. A d8 character with a +3 con is 99 health at 12. The monk can heal over a quarter of their health as a bonus action.

[@TheMemitim]

you can only replace a number of flurry of blows attacks wisdom mod per long rest.

[@ajdynon]

You mean Wisdom, not Charisma.

[@tabletopnephilim4633]

So to me, every Class needs a subclass that is "It's everything the Class was already doing, just more of it". Because as fun as some of these subclasses are in their flavor and world-building implications, sometimes you want a character that's a generalist and not hyperfixed to a specific gimmick. Something that says "You are the ___est ___ to ever ___." And for Monks, that's the Open Hand, the Monkest Monk to ever Monk.

[@nicoium6698]

It's amazing how they saved monks but doomed rangers to a point I would not play my favourite base class idea/fantasy (ranger) without huge homebrew.

[@DSpiritwolf]

When the mercy subclass first came out I was really excited because I thought a healing monk was very thematic. To heal someone though acupuncture feels pretty thematic (though I would have preferred if it was a more spiritual concept than a plague doctor but flavor is free.) Of course, I was a bit frustrated when I found out that the subclass for 2014 what's one of the strongest options because I didn't really want to play it to be a strong fighter but to be a support healer thematically. Basically what I'm saying is, I'm glad the Monk and it's sunglasses are overall better than what it used to be so now I don't have to feel so bad if I pick a high tier subclass just play a character concept. Lol

[@natw6857]

The Mercy monk with focus points to spare on a short rest is the party chiropractor. During a brawl, the monk becomes unarmed Xena with her pressure point attacks.

[@gaberielpendragon]

Darkness is mostly a wash, it gives advantage because the enemy can't see the attacker negating the disadvantage. It only affects things that require line of sight, which can cause issues with casters sometimes.

[@Adeptsoren]

I think open hand is an A, hot take. You can use feats on other fun things if you have crusher built in. Their capstone is just damage, it's a nova. And sometimes you need the guaranteed hit you don't have the luxury to give the enemy mage four turns assuming all your flurries hit. It's not a sexy A but I still think it's a technical one. Their other abilities don't spend focus points either iirc.

[@mikecarson7769]

new monk is soooo satisfying! The base class and all of the subclass options are super. my only little whiny point = personally, i dislike the name, artwork, and thematics of mercy monks ... yet certainly respect the powerful mechanics and of course can re-interpret anyway.

[@ptran2209]

Patiently waiting for your Sorcerers 2024 guide!

[@TheBlakery]

I think one of the things people are sleeping on for open hand monk are that their topple is not restricted by their target size, like almost every other similar feature. It’s also one of the few versions of that ability that target dexterity rather than strength. A halfling monk would have a pretty easy time, making the Tarrasque prone, or making it burn through all of its legendary resistances in a single turn if it didn’t want to be