2024 MT09 ECU Flash | Vcyclenut vs 2wdw - My experience and story

[@DeFinite_7]

By no means am I trying to make KZbin videos on the regular, but I did buy a better mic and plan on using a better camera in upcoming videos. The upcoming videos are only something I plan to make if I can gauge what people want to see. Are there any questions, curiosities, issues, you'd like for me to cover in a purpose built video to go over the bike and its features?

[@tjr2420]

So did the tune fix the "sluggish" 2nd gear issue?

[@DeFinite_7]

@@tjr2420 hell yeah it did! The bikes got power in every rpm in every gear now

[@RA-jt6sj]

I was going back and forth for months on deciding which tuner to use for my 2024 MT-09 with Yoshi exhaust and DNA filter. It was either 2WDW or Vcyclenut and decided to go with Dave at Vcycle. Reason being, you really cant find anything negative about Dave, only positive reviews. I found too many negatives with 2WDW mostly revolving around the attitudes. That's not to say 2 wheel hasn't done some good work for people, just that anyone that has had an issue seems to get an ongoing argument with no resolution. My tune from Vcyclenut was flawless and he is a super cool guy. We even chatted on the phone and he was very helpful with all my questions.

[@ar2043]

Oh I definitely am glad I found this video. I'm going to go watch it now but I can't imagine anybody being more methodical and more precise than Nate over at 2WDW..... I just can't… Can't imagine. Be back after the video.

[@th7321]

I’ve had 3 Yamaha triples tuned by David Verdecchia. Zero complaints ! Watch the 2wdw videos - I’m sure they’re good but the attitude is off putting

[@ryanwooton2475]

My experience with vcyclenut was great. Emailed a question, he responded that day with what I needed. Mailed the ECU for my 2023 xsr900 and he promptly flashed it and returned it. Extremely happy with the results.

[@adrenalinehoarder6246]

Had my 2024 Yamaha r7 tuned by 2wdw and im am really happy with it. Have an sc project exhaust... sounds and runs amazing!

[@DeFinite_7]

@@adrenalinehoarder6246 glad to hear! They did well on my CP2 as well

[@Antmanmoto]

David did my tune also. My throttle had the same issue but after the tune, it still does it a little bit. I read somewhere it’s the evap system, like a vapor lock condition of some sort. It really only does it when bike is hot….It cleans out after longer throttle inputs like cleaning out air bubbles in the fuel system. I read that the evap system can create that condition so that’s what I’m leaning towards. But David’s tune is freaking amazing.

[@DeFinite_7]

Interesting! Thanks for sharing this information. Definitely something to look into.

[@deano_s2k]

Selling tunes with borrowed bikes and only on the dyno will inherently always be inferior. Thanks for sharing!

[@motonate1639]

2wdw owns their own 4th gen MT-09, GSX8, Ninja 500 etc. They own multiple platforms

[@ChrisSauer-oe5ve]

This video shows the difference in styles of tuners & attitudes of tuners 💯👍 Glad you showed everyone & you have this right 👏👏

[@RJBiteanerd]

Had my XSR tuned by Vcycle and loved it. Next bike will also be tuned by him. Great guy to work with.

[@do.on2wheels38]

Had an fz09 and mt09sp all flash by Dave. Both of them were literally perfect. Dave is amazing and his flash for the 09 is so on point. I will say I have owned 3 fz07s as well and 1 was flashed by Dave and one by 2wdw. Both are great on the 07. Currently running the 07 on the track with the 2wdw flash and no complaints. Was considering a gen 4 09 next season and you bet your ass Dave will be flashing that one

[@Onereelrider]

I don't have a negative experience per say, but 2wdw told me my bike (22 CB1000R) is "untunable"...then Chris Moore comes out and cracks the code makes some videos then all the sudden 2w now offers a tune and talk as though they're the pioneers.

[@MarzuwanAriffAffendi]

Love the video. New knowledge for everyone. Would love to see a full walkaround and review on your bike. Been wanting to get the 2024 MT-09.

[@DeFinite_7]

I can certainly do that. Are there any details on the bike that you're curious about? I'd love to hear what you want to see so I know what to cover.

[@jacksoneakins5249]

Appreciate you making this video, I know who’s tuning my 23 mt09 now!

[@Clearsyde]

Thanks for making this video. I was actually deciding which one I was gonna go through to get my bike tuned.

[@grahamgraham4263]

Really appreciate you taking the time to make this video.... I had my 2021 MT 09 SP flashed by another company, but its not quite right so I reached out to 2WDW.... that enquiry hasnt progressed so will reach out to Vcyclenut instead....

[@ROckNCom]

Good to know and consistent with what I’ve seen from them on FB. Really happy with my MT10 flash from David as well and confident that post sale support will be there if ever needed. Enjoy the MT09 man!

[@JeremyHansenblue2kid3]

2wdw seems smart but also like an arrogant a hole in his videos. Glad I saw your video not going with his stuff

[@supaxr]

Great video...been following Dave's youtube for a while he knows his stuff 👌

[@HollybrookT7]

@cosmicbitflip, I don't think you should take this video down. I had my Tenere 700 flashed by 2WDW, and it was a painful process. Flash Tune had just released new software, and I ended up being their guinea pig because 2WDW was the first to run into the problems. They had my ECU three times before it was working correctly. The dialogue with Nate took much longer than it could have because his answers to my questions were terse and incomplete. I get that he is busy and talented, but think there is room for improvement in how he deals with customers when things are not going as expected. I am fully satisfied with the tune that I ultimately received and would use 2WDW again. For my Tracer 9 GT, I am debating between vcyclenut and 2WDW, and really appreciate your comparison of the companies and thief products.

[@gregmochty1836]

If you don't mind me asking, what part of Wisconsin are you in??? I'm around the millwaukee area. I had my gen3 tuned by vcycle nut!! Dave did a great job. Have a gen 4 now

[@DeFinite_7]

I'm about 3.5 hours north-west of you. I'm sure Milwaukee is an awesome place to rip around. Glad you enjoy your bike!

[@gregmochty1836]

@DeFinite_7 Nice area for sure!! We ride around the Mississippi River a few times a year!! Bought my 24 MT09 SP up your way! Safe riding

[@Ramgaruda]

I know this problem 😢 shit it’s so painful. Hope everything sorts out for you mate

[@DeFinite_7]

@@Ramgaruda All is well now that I had it tuned again! If you’re having the same issues, hit up David over at Vcyclenut. He’ll get you squared away

[@axel14243]

Got the same color! Going to Vcyclenut for sure. Ride safe.

[@DeFinite_7]

Likewise - ride safe.

[@OneSmallFavour]

My mt03 has the same throttle thing, before and after tube but usually when the engine is cold, it doesn’t effect riding at all, and never notice it unless I’m trying to rev it like that really fast haha. Probably can’t adjust quick enough or something. Try to rev it really fast under different loads like 20% throttle 50% throttle and 100% throttle blips lol

[@OneSmallFavour]

It’s about timing and knowing the feeling of the bike, try to get a better feel and time it and the issue goes away, your hitting an edge case in the mapping and could possible occur with the new tune as well, try and poke out a low rpm test

[@DeFinite_7]

I agree, it felt like an edge case. The new tune does not do it though. I tested the first day both cold and hot. It was my mistake for not adding this information to the video.

[@OneSmallFavour]

@@DeFinite_7 hmmm, can you post another video testing it, try a bunch of different throttle loads and rpm ranges and timings. It will happen again I feel like.

[@DeFinite_7]

@@OneSmallFavour You bet, I'll link the video below. I'll include two unlisted videos. The one demoing the old tune and a new one, filmed today, demoing the new tune. Please note the lower temp. If this is unsettling to you, I can 100% re-record this later. Also note that the high idle is not related to the lower temp. This new tune raises the idle a bit. Old: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2WQfo2nZ76pmM0 New (processing as of now, may not be viewable immediately): kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2evmJt3otOEsKc

[@SantiWax]

My 2016 MT07 does the same misfire thing from time to time when fast revving on/off throttle, its not tuned but it has an aftermarket exhaust. I live in Europe if not I'd get it tuned by vcyclenut.

[@DeFinite_7]

For what it's worth, vcyclenut does support international shipping. I do understand that international shipping can be quite expensive though. Unless your point is that the European bike is different - to that, I'd say that (as far as I'm aware), David actually disables the use of the O2 sensors so it should run fine regardless.

[@joshuaalbright]

I'm not here to talk you out of your feelings about your experience with 2WDW, but so that you're contemplating all information: 1) 2WDW field thousands and thousands of emails, phone calls and text messages, so it's not at all surprising that replies may be short and to the point. 2) I have nothing bad to say about Vcyclenut as I've not used any of their products, but bear in mind that the video they sent you appears to be of the prior generation MT09, and despite cosmetic similarities, there are substantial changes between that gen 2023- and the new 2024+. Some tuners are selling flashes for the 2023- generation to 2024 customers which is something I'd urge you to watch out for. Glad you're happy with your new bike and flash.

[@chaselovesbecca]

its a 2024 look at the dash and tank vents

[@ar2043]

Yes, but what he is saying is some people are selling the flash for the 2024 when it's really the flash for the 2023. The two are vastly different in the flashes and are not/should not be the same. Much much different parameters in the stock bike which means there has to be many many different parameters to the tune. Did you understand what he was trying to say, or no? Yeah, the bike might be a 2024 but did he get a new tune for said model or did he get a tune that works for the 2023 model and just slapped it in the 2024? That's what he's talking about.

[@damacknificent151]

Thanks for posting this. Lot's of us like to know this kinda stuff. I know David always answers my questions on videos. You should do more videos see how the bike feels any check engine light's coming back? What radiator guard is that?

[@DeFinite_7]

I can definitely shoot another video if it's something folks want to see. This was a radiator guard from a polish seller on eBay. Didn't really have a "brand" or "model" name but the seller was tom-ash1976

[@DeFinite_7]

Oh and yes - check engine came on for two riding sessions, 10 min each. Went away promptly.

[@damacknificent151]

@@DeFinite_7 oh, but keeps coming back on? Or is gone forever?

[@DeFinite_7]

@@damacknificent151 No, it's gone forever. Has not come back on. It came on just as David described and went away, also just as he described.

[@loganhenn209]

Nice video, you mentioned the vcyclenut tune as having less engine braking, is there other differences between the tunes you could go more in depth on?

[@DeFinite_7]

Hey Logan, I plan to make another video covering more technical details about the tune but here are the big differences I found: - From stock to tuned, each gear opened up so that it made power through and through whereas previously, stock ecu was configured to have "holes" in the mapping. This is done to preserve their emissions compliance standings. - The stock top speed limited is a "Soft" limit. It kicks in slowly and doesn't hard limit your speed. It makes it feel like the bike cannot go faster. With it removed, the bike just keeps pulling up to close to 150mph. - Between the two tunes, the biggest differences are the engine braking and the softness in which power is applied. I ride in Street mode most of the time and the power comes on smoother, but comes on at around the same time. It's a hard sensation to describe but it feels buttery smooth now to drive between slow and high speeds. - Rain mode in the Vcyclenut tune makes full power if needed but kicks in very very slowly. Extremely easy to ride. There's an engine mode 4 that can be used if this is too much power. Between the three states of stock, 2wdw, and Vcyclenut, I feel like I can genuinely trust the machine to behave how I'd expect underneath me. I feel more in sync with it and this is the exact sensation all of us riders should be chasing. The power comes on when I expect which is not something I can say about the stock ECU flash. 2wdw did a good job at that too but this feels that few percent better, although it could be me simply getting used to the bike still.

[@mikeb1303]

Thanks for this....

[@isaaclarson]

Were you a really early adopter on the software/flash? I thought I've heard where Woolich fixed the problems and 2WDW has refined the flashed now. Idk how long ago the flash was done since the video is pretty new.

[@banjoboy469]

Guy making the video is a complete n00b. The 2024 mt09 has a great auto blipper, so there's no reason to be blipping the throttle. 2wheeldyno is for real riders/racers because they have a real shop, with real technicians. They've flashed a few of my bikes with great results; then again, I don't blip the throttle 3 times every shift. 🤣

[@michaellb1880]

Thats interesting because 2wdw had some videos with this byke and maping on them looks good plus different exhausts….idk about service

[@ExticyOn2Wheels]

just curious why are you blipping the throttle to downshift when the '24 mt09 has QS/AutoBlip?

[@DeFinite_7]

Valid question! The truthful answer is that I'm so used to my previous MT07 that the quickshifter isn't something I utilize as much as I could in downshifts. The big reason for this is that my beginner knowledge on how quickshifters work lead me to believe that downshifts should be seamless while on and off the throttle (since the quickshifter supports that). Buuuut downshifts while on power felt absolutely horrible, so I just learned to downshift without it, so it's now a habit to not use it unless I'm driving super chill and rely on one handed riding.

[@ExticyOn2Wheels]

@@DeFinite_7 ah ok! Yeah the autoblip on most modern motorcycles that have it require very little to no throttle at all to be smooth. 🤙🏽

[@predalienftw]

pretty sure vcyclenut made a video about you, talking about tuners needing to street tune bikes lol

[@DeFinite_7]

@@predalienftw Lol I think you’re right! I just tuned in to the video after reading your comment and that definitely sounds like our conversation when I called before getting all this done.

[@SlavKinG667]

Thanks for the insights. How’s fuel economy now?

[@DeFinite_7]

It certainly didn't get better but I am not noticing it being any worse. I use a full tank of fuel for about 2 hours of spirited riding. I haven't looked at how many miles these trips are but they're normally closer to 80-100 miles.

[@PrestoninParadisus]

Fuel economy should never get better with a tune. This question is always asked by the bikes are lean from the factory and they add more fuel. This shouldn’t be an issue considering the main reason we want tunes: more power

[@hawkman996]

I feel Nates responses were perfectly fine. His explanation is spot on. Did the throttle actually act like that while you are riding and blipping the throttle to downshift? Never saw if you addressed that. Nate tunes full on race bikes for MotoAmerica so he knows what he is doing. I get the frustration though as Nate’s responses were very short and too the point but I think that is his personality. I have worked with Dave at Vcyclenut when I worked for a dealership. He is very professional and always ready to answer questions. His tuning worked as advertised. He is a one man operation from my understanding so the scale is smaller than 2wdw. Both are good options and more options are always better. Bummer you had a bad experience but glad you got the bike working how you wanted in the end.

[@DeFinite_7]

Hey @hawkman996, thanks for commenting. A part of me wants to re-make this video to better establish my experience surrounding the tangible differences between the tunes rather than dwell so much on the customer experience because: - you ask a valid point that I did not touch on well - the emotions surrounding feeling slighted by the team at 2wdw have subsided and I think I could do a better job now While in the video I did mention that downshifting quickly would have been a factor, I did not touch on how it was indeed a factor. The rate at which I can blip the throttle now is faster than what the 2wdw tune offered, especially when the blips are repeated. Combine that sensation with this blipping issue, it did indeed cause a riding condition where the bike wasn't able to put the power toward revving or the ground fast enough. I cannot tell if the following is placebo or not but it also feels like the quickshifter works better now as downshifts are more feasible whereas initially, the felt scary and hard on the transmission. I'll likely take this video down in the coming week and reshoot it with more of a focus on the bike itself rather than how I feel I was treated. Cheers

[@hawkman996]

@@DeFinite_7 This explanation makes more sense for how it felt in gear and actual riding conditions. So I see why you are sticking with the Vcyclenut tune. The emotion portrayed in your video is fine as that is real life. You felt pushed off by 2wdw so I understand the frustration and disappointment. I think Nate’s email explanations were fine but he definitely comes off more crass. If you watch his channels you will see this is his personality. Some people like that straightforward personality and others do not. Dave is more personable in his videos and even slightly goofy at times. I like them both. I’ve worked with enough tuners in the automotive world and powersports world to understand tunes can have personalities. Different people will like different tuners for the personalities those tunes exhibit. Better customer service always wins out in the end though no matter how good the product is.

[@mmatma31]

If you don’t mind where did you get the radiator guard looking for one for my 24

[@Sayo.451]

lol, Nate does come off as an asshole. I flashed my ninja 500 from 2wheeldyno and it did turnout great, but I think they were also really the only ones to actually put time in to flashing a ninja 500. So, they were my most trusted and only source. I did wish they were also more informative towards customers. I think it has alot to do with the fact that they work with big track people and tune specifically towards that only. My experience with them was okay. They flashed and sent it out quick, but response were the same as yours. But ninja 500's are so basic that there was almost no way to mess it up. Thanks for the video though. If i was to one day upgrade bikes, I know now to atleast explore my options. Also live in Wisconsin and I'm sorta somewhat near your hometown. Maybe I'll see ya around one day

[@DeFinite_7]

@@Sayo.451 Cheers to riding in Wisconsin! Hoping to get a couple more weeks in here before it gets below 60s. I hope to see ya around eventually

[@tjr2420]

So it ain't just me thinking 2nd gear seemed underwhelming

[@austinschmidt9429]

Oconomowoc or Oshkosh

[@DB-sd3cw]

Can either tune a tenere 700?

[@DeFinite_7]

@@DB-sd3cw as far as I know, the Tenere700 uses the CP2 motor. Since the CP2 motor has been tuned in the MT07, both should work just fine for you. Reach out to either. I’m fairly sure the answer will be “yes”

[@DB-sd3cw]

@@DeFinite_7 cool it with the antisemitic remarks

[@Adalvallan_Nataraja]

They are the cheapest ‘tuners’. I guess you get what you pay for

[@brianboggess852]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣