#208

It is episodes like this that make me feel like the luckiest man in the world.
In this week's conversation, I speak with Astrid Holleeder, the brave woman who risked her own life and freedom to put her brother, the most notorious criminal gangster in the modern history of the Netherlands, behind bars. Astrid is now unable to appear in public and lives in oscillation between freedom and fear, but with no regrets. You won't see her face if you decide to watch the video on KZbin (highly recommended and available with Dutch subtitles), but her voice says it all.
Joining me along with Astrid is her daughter Miljuschka, an iconic Dutch model, actress, and TV chef in the Netherlands who rose to fame advocating for living free and emotionally, mentally, and phyiscally healthy. Miljuschka is a beloved figure with millions of fans and a beacon of strength herself.
Speaking to these two women together, mother and daughter, makes it clear that courage can run in the family. You will see that most of this conversation is with Astrid as Miljuschka humbly gives her mother the rare chance to express herself publicly. We focus less on the unbelievable story that led to her bestselling book, Judas, and more on the storm of emotions and experiences that led her to a sense of peace despite an incredibly difficult childhood and adulthood.
This episode contains explicit language and themes. We felt it appropriate to leave this episode unaltered.
Listen as we discuss:
- How Astrid got the strength to completely upend her life for the sake of what's right.
- The horror of living in fear of her criminal brother and his threats and murders.
- The worst ultimatum: blind loyalty or death to your loved ones.
- Astrid living in survival mode and going to therapy to learn right from wrong.
- The moment she learned that not all father's are abusive and finally stood up to her's.
- Why Astrid never followed through on her plan to kill her own brother.
- How the internet and discovering psychology has rewired her brain to a place of peace.
- The one beautiful gift her brother gave her when he took away her freedom.
- What does Miljuschka wish for her mother?
- Astrid's last moments with her mother showed her more than a lifetime together.
- A discussion on death and its purpose.
- What does the universe have planned from this seemingly horrible story?
Other episodes referenced in this conversation:
Edith Eger: bit.ly/3pUojle
Pin Van Lommel: bit.ly/3pO9HUJ
KZbin: @mogawdatofficial (full episodes on video here)
Instagram: @mo_gawdat
Facebook: @mo.gawdat.official
Twitter: @mgawdat
LinkedIn: /in/mogawdat
Website: mogawdat.com
Connect with Miljuschka on Instagram @miljuschka and her website, miljuschka.nl
Don't forget to subscribe to Slo Mo for new episodes every Sunday. Only with your help can we reach One Billion Happy #onebillionhappy

[@russellboston]

I father is also a monster. He murdered many people, including my mother when I was two, as well as two British tourists in front of me ten years later. I told the police when I became an adult, but they didn’t believe me. I testified against him 38 years later and he took his own life while in custody. I felt horrible guilt, because I knew my betrayal of my own father caused him to die. But to paraphrase Astrid, when someone is defective, they need to be stopped. Thank you for your strength and doing the right thing, for the world, and all of those you saved.

[@lruiz9159]

Very nice conversation. I felt the love. Life is a beautiful miracle. Then you have circumstances and some are horrible and other ones are beautiful and then you have everything in between. Not too mention, they can be very complex at the same time. If we see them as an opportunity to growth and gain wisdom, we’ll have a chance for transformation. But easy to say right, especially when you are just a child. I don’t know the origin of this saying, but I heard that the Jesuits knew and would say, give me a child for the first seven years, and I’ll tell you the man he’ll become. By the time we are adults we have been programmed, it is so hard to change, but not impossible.

[@reneevankoot3686]

I'm from the Netherlands and just saw Judas2, the series. Although i never really followed the proces at the time, I was so impressed by Astrid's story and the strenght she found within herself. Somehow i ended up watching this interview. I was crying during the wise and beautifull things that were said. So inspirational for me during a hard time in my life, where i'm trying to make sense of what is happening to me, again. This has pushed me in the direction of seeing this 'hard' time as blessing instead of curse. Thank you all❤️🙏🏻

[@yousra2403]

Beautiful podcast! I know the story of Astrid and besides everything that is going on it is such a traumatising story. The way Mo is in the conversation makes it such a joy to look and listen at! Chapeau!

[@user-xe2cr4yf9q]

Astrid is a force of nature. But so are Sonja her sister and Sandra (his ex girlfriend) who also testified against him ... I wonder if Astrid is still in contact with Sandra ..?

[@ShirleyMcalpine]

Wow! Wow wow!! I just got the audiobook from the library. Thank you so much!

[@lisaillames9804]

Wow, thank you for this conversation, I am she in many ways!

[@illustravitae]

Thanks for sharing, much love for Miljuschka en Astrid

[@Shirleydepurley]

Astrid deserves a statue in de Jordaan ❤

[@saidaj3240]

Wow thanks for this wonderful podcast. As said nothing is a coincidence, these life lessons were intended for my ears. And from here I continue with my life path. Thanks again for sharing not just the words but the energy. 🙏🏾♥️♥️♥️

[@giorgiab244]

Thank u 🙏my heart s full💚

[@kakkar70]

Brilliant episode

[@jeyashreebhat3054]

Just WOW! what a remarkable and brave woman. God bless them both. Thanks Mo for this amazing episode.

[@LiNEKE-rs6wc]

Keep learning