21 Foot Rule and "proportional threat"

21 Foot Rule and "proportional threat"

[@carritohmc]

And that's if someone is expecting the other person is going to run at you imagine if you add a screaming baby, a lady cussing you out, lack of sleep, and low light.

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

And don't forget the previous crime scene the cop just visited where they had to scrape some victim's dripping brain matter and blood off their shirt because a third of someone's head was blown off. And then you wonder why that officer is tired of your bullshit at the next scene.

[@yourvehiclesextendedwarran8964]

With all of those people recording your every move on video and looking for a reason to condemn police officers. I couldn’t even imagine.

[@brettalexander220]

@@yourvehiclesextendedwarran8964 Chauvin did nothing wrong!

[@ki5895]

@@brettalexander220 I support cops but, that's just ignorant.

[@brettalexander220]

@@ki5895 no its not, he did society a big favor. Took one of THOSE off the streets forever

[@traveler1550]

was taught that in my CCW class. what people never realize is that you as a moral person will still make that split-second decision to shoot.

[@brettalexander220]

moral pondering can come later. if its me and my family under attack I would not hesitate to do what I had to do to protect us from an armed attacker. I'll cry about it later

[@JohnSmith-ct5jd]

"How do you always come out on top in so many gunfights?" "Well, son, no one was shooting back at you. I learned long ago that most men aren't willing. They will take a breath, bat an eye, before they pull a trigger. I won't." Lines from the John Wayne movie, The Shootist.

[@analogdistortion]

This rule of 21 feet also assumes that the instant a bullet leaves the chamber the threat is eliminated like in the movies. I've seen plenty of videos where entire mags are unloaded on a person and they just carry on regardless with all the power to run, jump, and swing whatever weapon they have with lethal force.

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

That's called the Stress Response (Fight or Flight or Faint or Freeze) and it's part of everyone's genetic makeup from cave dwelling times and Saber-Toothed Tigers.

[@analogdistortion]

@@zombieapocalypse3837 Yeah and it can be ultra-enhanced with drugs like PCP. Not that I recommend doing it :D

[@ak-488]

watch police videos, they have the gun trained on a nut even at 50 feet, 21 ft crock means your giving your attacker a fighting chance to kill you.

[@BETA00009]

@@ak-488that’s because police already know what’s going to happen. They literally have someone call 911 and say what’s happening. Which is not the case for a normal person with a ccw

[@azimuth361]

For reference, 21 feet is about the width of a two-car garage. A two-car door is 16' wide and the additional width is about two or three more feet each side.

[@nixon5452]

Well I certainly won't be trying to stab someone in a garage! Thank you kind sir

[@IskurBlast]

How exactly does a fact, the average man can cover 20ft in 1.5s, become an outdated concept.

[@internetrules8522]

i mean, think of it like this: if the police dont shoot and just let themselfs get killed, then the public will view them as much more compassionate, we must always refer to what the public would think of any action before taking such action. even if it will lead to the death of the entire counties police force. why do the police even need guns? that sounds like the job of the military.

[@amaterasouplel712]

@@internetrules8522 Please don't reproduce

[@internetrules8522]

Amaterasoup Lel fine, I can see you must obviously be a supporter of fully-semi-automatic-weapons-of-ghost-recon-sniper-elite-war-150-magazine-drum-clips. Btw I was joking

[@Baconatorz]

Well, people are much more obese these days. So the average time has gone up a bit.

[@silversadie9342]

Internet Rules This is sarcasm, right? Lol.

[@jaredpoon5869]

The tough thing is that public perception is often very, very wrong. Just from watching other people try to stop the 21 foot rule, it's clear that while you might be able to shoot a person at 21 feet, you will likely get stabbed. Now of course, there are times when police use too much force and are not prosecuted, and of course that's wrong, but people really overestimate how little time police really have. If you have to make a decision in 2 seconds, you react on instinct.

[@joelarrarte8486]

To the public everything is easy because it is in hindsight with context of the situation and outcome is already known. Put them in the situation where they need to evaluate and react and they would all go home in a body bag.

[@RavenAdventwings]

@@joelarrarte8486 Let's see them survive a round of CS:GO, or even better, 5 minutes jumping into Pochinki.

[@yewtewbstew547]

@@RavenAdventwings ngl I'm dead before I even see an enemy in CS:GO half the time lol.

[@RavenAdventwings]

@@yewtewbstew547 You're better than me. I usually end up dead within 3 minutes almost every game. (lol)

[@noncompliant4316]

As long as they apply the same standard to private citizens defending themselves or their family when finding someone within 21 feet of them in their house ... when they feel under threat.

[@kbowers8111]

When I took my concealed carry class the cop preached this same thing. On the range we had to draw from holster get 2 rounds on target as he ran up on us under a timer. If he taped your shoulder before 2 rounds on target you "died" no one "survived" id say the rule of thumb should by wider.

[@TimeForDunston]

But what if the knife carrier doesn't charge directly at the cop, telegraphing his attack? What if the knife wielder keeps it concealed until he's close and then? Well... perhaps John Wick could handle it, but we can't all be John Wick, knives are dangerous, never underestimate your attacker just because you have a firearm.

[@MiroPVP]

This is why police keep a distance from the suspect and will want see the suspects hands at all times

[@snafu673]

In some situations there will not be obstacles that you can maneuver behind to block the assailant, that is even if the Officer sees the knife.

[@davegrenier1160]

That's true, but trainees have to be presented with scenarios in which cover and other obstacles are available in order to train them to use them when they are available. The training doesn't teach them that there's always cover, it teaches them to use it when it's tactically prudent. A smart officer will place an impediment between himself and a subject whenever possible and will not wait to see a weapon. He will not come out from behind cover unless necessary, or until the subject shows compliance with officer commands (such as "Get down on your belly and put your hands behind your back.").

[@RandomCarrot2806]

@@davegrenier1160 Cover just makes it harder to draw your gun and aim accurately in an enclosed space too though. Or were you talking about small things like a chair or table that the assailant would have to jump over?

[@brettalexander220]

now you see why the 1911 pistol was developed. Moro rebels were known to charge with knives under the influence of narcotic teas and drugs. 38 wasnt cutting it

[@Shawn-rq4py]

We’re also taught to quickly take a step to the side as we draw and fire. If possible put something between the 2 to interrupt their run. At least my class was and we trained that way. So if someone was running full speed and we stepped to the side as we drew and got off one shot they couldn’t change course fast enough w o stumbling.

[@jamesmcdaniel9601]

@Shawn. But can you fire accurately to neutralize said threat? High stress situations usually make for lesser accuracy.

[@Shawn-rq4py]

@@jamesmcdaniel9601 well anytime you have to use Deadly force it’s a high stress situation. But yes we practiced that move along w all other firearms training. When I was at the academy they had a nice piece of equipment which was detrimental to our training. If I can accurately describe it. It was a target w a medium sized frame body target w an extended arm holding a paintball gun/barrel. In the center of the target was a 1’x1’ steel target. It was set up on a timer and we had to fire a number of rounds, sometimes one & up to 3 rounds, onto the steel target within an allotted time frame. Up to 4 seconds if I remember correctly. When the instructor started the timer we had to put rounds on target accurately or the target would fire paintballs at us. There were many different drills but one was the side step & shoot. When we did that we had 2 seconds to get off one round on target before we were shot. That’s the only way I know of to hone in your firearms training. There’s extra incentive when the target can shoot back and there’s a timeframe. Even though it was only paintballs we still didn’t want to be hit. But yes you’re correct accuracy under high stress is what training is for.

[@ak-488]

Ok Robo-cop ya gonna risk it, Attacker high on meth will stumble into you.

[@JohnSmith-ct5jd]

Right. When facing a knife, create distance.

[@justinewert2166]

Twitter brought me here after yesterday's shooting in Philly.

[@cynthiabowling9437]

Me too @Justin Ewert so what's your opinion here?

[@Conker1337]

the comment section of a lefty news site brought me here (no joke, even they have no words for that BLM riots)... xd

[@MegensBay]

Same here.

[@cheekyqueefs]

You’re all autistic that nigga was mentally ill athere was two cops already having gun unholsterd they mowed that nigga down with 14 bullets that’s a gang violence shit yeah that guy was threat but they did use exsessive force

[@likeabigboiii6324]

Cinema summary brought me here. Or nerd explains I forget

[@naardebioscoop]

Sgt Shannon Dillon sure is an engaging public speaker

[@likeabigboiii6324]

And fat as fuck

[@moddedinkling4168]

What's even scarier is the "21 rule," which refers to the speed of which an assailant could reach a gun before it is drawn, at a distance of under 21 feet away. This cop survived because of the amount of time for the hatchet guy to step out of the car.

[@codygordon5202]

The public needs to side with law abiding law enforcement officers and quit pushing for criminal rights. If a danger is posed, ELIMINATE IT. Why do people care so much about protecting criminals? It doesn’t make sense.

[@monkeyking9863]

the police need to stop protecting murdering psychopaths just because they are officers

[@seanreed9472]

@@monkeyking9863 the police need to stop protecting murdering psychopaths just because they are BLM....fixed :)

[@wesleydaub8002]

What makes a Revolver an underrated handgun is that it can be directly pushed or punched into the threat without fear of your handgun being knocked out of battery and rendered useless. Even if you end up getting stabbed the knifer won't be doing so well after taking six .357 rounds to the chest or stomach.

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

provided you can put six rounds in center of mass quickly, with a kicking magnum.

[@wesleydaub8002]

@@zombieapocalypse3837 It would be easier said than done at a distance but if it were me or any other large man directly pushing the muzzle and barrel of the Revolver into the knife or club attacker's chest at full contact all that would need to be worried about is a tight grip on the Magnum and that it doesn't fly out of the hand/hands. One Magnum round hitting the aggressor is all that matters where as some people can take 14 rounds of 9mm and STILL be able to club or stab you before dying. I'll admit that when it comes to handguns I'm a huge Revolver fanboy but for a handgun defense against a melee assault I don't think that round capacity is going to be much of an issue when you're the only one in consideration with bullets. Six or seven rounds (with plus models) of pure carnage with no possiblity of a stove pipe or magazine feed jam seems ideal for a firearms based defense in this situation. You might have one or two bad Revolver rounds but a stove pipe or feed jam will leave you with only a knife, club or bare fists to defend yourself with and the odds of every round in a cylinder being all duds are beyond very low.

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

@@wesleydaub8002 Remember the Stress Response (Fight or Flight or Faint or Freeze) and it's part of everyone's genetic makeup from cave dwelling times and Saber-Toothed Tigers. Unless you can hit their off switch it doesn't matter what kind of gun it is, magnum or not, it's shot placement, either the left ventricle(heart) or the brain and you have to do it quickly under duress.

[@mkaberli]

The "public" isn't the one who is facing a man armed with a knife. The life and well being of the "public" isn't being threatened.

[@percivalconcord9209]

mkaberli But the safety of a police officer is being threatened and a threat to a police officer might hinder a police officers ability to safeguard public safety.

[@laineyparker6403]

Absolutely it is because that officer could be what’s between innocent people and the assailant.

[@RavenAdventwings]

You must live in a nice gated neighborhood.

[@massimo4307]

​@@laineyparker6403That cop could be the one infringing an innocent person's rights. In which case, he is the threat to tbe public that needs to be disposed of. And quickly.

[@xxxxWARPATHxxxx]

If you think that you can just "talk it out" with a suspect with a Deadly Weapon, I would hate to see your police officers test your theory.

[@badgershade8119]

Just sit down and have some tea with the perp with an edged weapon. WhAt CoUlD gO wRoNg???

[@TitanFlare]

@@badgershade8119 it is possible to talk it out and it will probably end well, but that's the job of a trained negotiator with years of experience. It's completely impractical for people to expect every police officer in the country to be an expert on crisis negotiation

[@badgershade8119]

@@TitanFlare Yeah.

[@zogworth]

Our police do usually do that yes.

[@ItAbel-xy3xk]

This comment is relevant with the recent shooting, they wanted the cop to de escalate and talk down when the stabbing was attemped about 10 seconds after the cop pulled up.

[@deplorabledave1048]

I did armed security at a strip mall inn Miami graveyard shift. ANYBODY with out vehicle up after midnight was up to no good and potential threat. A large number of people IN vehicles were also up to no good and potential threats. To remain safe, I: 1) Kept the golf cart between me and potential attackers. (which were most people at that hour). There were seriously mentally ill, violent,. homeless who would often scream at me to "shoot them". Lots of armed drug dealers. 2) Got certified in ASP baton and SABRE RED OC spray. Carried both. Sometimes had them in my LEFT hand, leaving my right hand free to switch to lethal (Glock 9mm 124gr +P JHP Speer Gold Dot) means if needed. 3) Approached any vehicle from the rear and always assumed there was someone in the back seat who could shoot me. Windrows were so heavily tinted that you were stupid not to take the back seat in to consideration. 4) Realize that the local bad guys would shoot you in A SECOND and think nothing of it since you are ONLY armed security. The entire police population do NOT hunt for the murderer of an private armed security person. 5) If something were really sketchy, I would disable the retention loop on my holster and have my hand ON my gun. 6) Take all the tactical course you can and be deadly accurate, all the time, every time. Smooth is fast. 7) Became a Firearms Instructor. I sometimes taught LEO's to shoot better. Much better. 8) Take a medics course and carry a medical kit. For YOURSELF, not any bad guys. Ever. (Because: So MANY legal reasons) 9) KNOW the laws and carry your own body cam. NEVER use profanity. Call the worst scum of the earth "Sir or M'am or Miss"!! Be polite. Right up until it is time to act. Act swiftly and silently. 10) Quit after two years, and get a job at a high end condominium in a good area of Fort Lauderdale where you are INSIDE behind locked doors with a large bank of cameras in front of you.

[@randybarnett8226]

I'm a firearm instructor and a defensive edged weapons instructor, this 21 ft. rule is an old thought process that is not accurate. You would need to add another 10 ft. for the element of surprise, unlike this current video where the officer knows what is going to happen, also add another 10 ft. for the assailants momentum. This distance is now over 40 ft.

[@ariawebster9405]

Add feet for element of surprise? Wouldn’t it be reduce?

[@seanreed9472]

Just curious, where did you get your edged blade training? It was Inosanto system for me, 2 years.

[@johnschwartz3641]

@@ariawebster9405 if there is no weapon showing add feet to give you time to react

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

@@ariawebster9405 No, more distance between you and potential threat increases your safety, for the moment.

[@TheNutriarat]

Fuck what they "expect". I expect I will go home to my wife at the end of my shift. Moral of this story?......don't pull a knife on me.

[@wh5686]

find a new profession

[@nesano4735]

Trolls are always the same.

[@povilaspovilas1129]

Fully agree with you. In Lithuania we have even stricter rulles, but police dont hasitate to use deadlly force, and everybody knows what dangerous is that work. I have my licence to carry, and i know that even gun doesn't garantee my nothing

[@mitchconner2014]

i think it's completely fair for the public to have expectations of those who are supposed to "protect and serve." if you're that worried about gettin stabbed, then maybe dont be a police officer?

[@davegrenier1160]

In America, Americans have rights. Among those rights are the rights to life and the right to due judicial process. We do not hire police officers to protect themselves, we hire them to protect the communities they serve, including suspects who are not guilty until proven so in court (due process). The teaching "your job is to go home safely at the end of your shift" is wrong-headed. Anyone who wants to remain (relatively) safe should not become a cop. It's a dangerous job. But they don't become judge, jury, and executioner just because they have a badge. Police should be held to a higher standard than civilians in a use of force incident for several reasons: 1.) they're trained in the legal technicalities of use of force and therefore should know better when lethal force is allowed, and when it is not; 2.) they carry multiple weapons on their belts, giving them a spectrum of force available to meet a threat with like force (unlike the armed civilian who often has just a knife or a gun - no baton, no taser) 3.) they wear (or should be wearing) body armor, unlike nearly all civilians, and are therefore better protected from some weapons; 4.) they work (or should work) in pairs and have on-call back-up (that is often alerted as an incident develops), something not available to civilians; and 5.) because they are hired and paid to protect us, and not to shoot one of us accidentally every now and then.

[@Bwanar1]

And an officer can brandish his gun. Imagine how tough it is as a citizen to protect yourself and still stay within the laws!

[@PiscosAmerica]

In the great words of Chael Sonnen “I can’t let you get close” With that being said 21 foot rule indicates you mag dump them, reload and repeat until threat is neutralized. Average person can close that distance of 21 feet around 3 seconds.

[@tyb2526]

Having untrained civilians judging the actions of law enforcement is never a good idea. The majority of civilians have never been involved in an incident that threatened their life, and they are not acquainted with the violence that law enforcement encounters everyday. Most civilians also lack the disposition necessary to be a police officer. They know nothing of real violence, and the reason they are so ignorant is because men (police officers) are willing to do violence on their behalf. These administrations trying to coddle the emotions of the public should be ashamed of themselves. Woe to those who justify the wicked and vilify the righteous.

[@THEBLACKANARCHIST]

Lmaooooo this guy. Cops are WORTHLESS

[@monkeyking9863]

you do know cops are not gods right?

[@seanreed9472]

@@THEBLACKANARCHIST Scumbags like you are worthless.

[@seanreed9472]

@@monkeyking9863 No, they are normal people doing a difficult job.

[@monkeyking9863]

@@seanreed9472 you might have a point if they didnt actively fire police who reported bad behavior of other officers

[@kamara4700]

Watching this in 2020 during the riots - 4 years later. Seems like nothings changed

[@johns9652]

Aye, I just cited this video on another video on a Timcast video about the Atlanta situation.

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

Yep criminals still as violent towards police as always. But now they get statues for it. Sad.

[@nemomarcus5784]

The difference between a gun and a knife is that you have to aim to hit your target with a gun. Shoving a knife into someone's gut doesn't require aiming because the hand knows where to go immediately. A murderer can thrust a series of 10 knife cuts in the time it takes someone to draw, aim and fire their gun.

[@Alex-rn5hz]

ohhhhh hear that Philly !?

[@RJS1966USMC]

The 21 foot "rule" will never change, no matter what "policy" says. It is a fact that an attacker can cover that distance before anyone can draw and fire a single round. It's physics and human ability. Awareness of this capability must be experienced to convince police officers and civilians that danger can get to you faster than you think.

[@verticle2612]

This is all great, if you’re a police officer, but try this as a civilian and you’ll go to jail for 5-15 years. Remember this, I’d rather be judged by 11 than carried by 6.

[@badgershade8119]

Self defense is not outdated.

[@Coffee1776]

It is if you're a liberal.

[@noncompliant4316]

As long as they apply the same standard to private citizens defending themselves or their family when finding someone within 21 feet of them in their house ... when they feel under threat.

[@routeterror1236]

If there’s a guy standing 21 feet away from you with a knife, and he’s preparing to charge, your gun should already be out of its holster and aimed at him

[@pyroparagon8945]

While police always carry cocked and locked, for most CC carriers the distance is even farther. Many would have to draw, rack, aim... I'm a fast draw, but I'd need more room.

[@inkednpierced4u53]

If you don't carry with a round chambered you are wrong.

[@Squarehead45]

Police has to make a decision is a split second that lawyers and the Corrupt Media can take MONTHS to tear apart or condemn.

[@jannora4725]

Most of these “experts” would poop in their pants when faced with similar circumstances.

[@Torgo1969]

Massad Ayoob discusses the use of this exact reasoning in a trial from several decades ago, and it was successful. The ratio between the time allowed to the accused police officer and the time allowed to the lawyers and jury is a very powerful fact.

[@monkeyking9863]

@Führer des Benutzers except the majority of the time they aint criminals

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

@@Torgo1969 Massad Ayoob is my HERO from the 1980s and still today.

[@FrankBevins-kh7mq]

Who the hell would run at a police officer like that. Maybe someone harassed and encouraged to do that

[@maxrees8445]

As an officer or civilian learning to draw and shoot under 1second is critical. Speed is a tactic that saves lives.

[@seanreed9472]

Correct. Everyone goes to the range and shoots paper, but few practice getting out and on target. I used to, late at night so no one could see me, looked like something out of Taxi Driver, LOL.

[@panzerdeal8727]

Assuming A] there is NO obsticles behind the officers, and B] The opponet can't THROW the knife....

[@stargazer2042]

Officers have a rough job. When you call them to rescue you, they are putting their lives on the line.

[@neongirl]

The best solution is dodge the attack. No need to stand like a pillar and aim at the aggressor while he is running towards you. You draw your pistol while moving to the side to let your attacker pass. Inertia in any case will not allow him to immediately change direction. At this point, you increase the distance and open fire.

[@robinworkman3621]

What happens if the person with the gun side steps or backs up while drawing and shooting?

[@Alex-vz2jz]

That won't change much. The enemy has their eyes on you and will do everything in their power to hurt you. Because this officer hasn't drawn his weapon yet, the time it takes for him to draw his gun and move at the same time again isn't enough, like the video stated it takes about 2 seconds for the man to cover that distance. In many situations like this many officers already have their weapons drawn if they get a call saying their is a man with a knife. Side steps could work but you don't want to trip on your own feet or something and get yourself killed. Its happen where a cop was shot point blank while his partner couldn't react in time and when he did he slipped and fell then both were shortly killed by a shot in the head and chest area. All on captured on footage.

[@captaincodebook3200]

The 21 foot rule is an awareness rule. DON'T KEEP YOUR FEET PLANTED AND WAIT FOR THE ASSAILANT! Move and shoot.

[@brettalexander220]

cutting the vine is also a useful tactic, cover to cover in a semicircular pattern

[@ThinkTwice2222]

You assume I know he has a knife

[@ChipLinck]

What I expect is the officer orders someone with a weapon to stop. If they don't stop, it's fair game. Putting restrictions on officers just lets people know they can get away with actin' a fool.

[@5ohstang12]

Justified anyone?

[@flightofthebumblebee9529]

Hell yes! Lol.

[@johnj.baranski6553]

Danny Crow

[@nc2790]

hahahahha

[@sammgaming676]

Yep

[@jarrellmckenna2988]

Swear Danny I would have warned you if I knew . I didn’t see it either

[@JC-jk3kl]

It is not a rule nor the 21-foot "rule." It is called the Tueller Drill developed by former officer Dennis Tueller.

[@gregorymceaddy8884]

The best way is to deviate the straight line attack by creating an angle to make the perp change direction....it's all about situational awareness

[@Desperado3248]

Exactly. See my comment. Your feet are not glued to the floor

[@hollyrock911]

THEY ARE DISTORTING REALITY. ANY OFFICER WOULD HAVE DONE TAKEN 10 STEPS BACK AS HE IS RUSHED OR SIDE STEPPED, HE DOES NOT JUST STAND THERE

[@snrnsjd]

In real life situation, when officers do not see the weapon and the attacker is closer and does a surprise attack...the outcome is much different and worse

[@robertcarney7928]

All this shows is that it is best practice to draw your weapon and be ready if you think someone might run at you with their knife. Not that you should shoot them. Just be ready.

[@Darkestdarkify]

I mean from a legal standpoint they can claim they were defending themselves from your knife in panic with the only defense against your gun a measly knife

[@moontan91]

that is why officers should be trained in martial arts.

[@Desperado3248]

Here is where the argument falls apart. If you stand in one spot, his momentum in a straight line will carry him in. Move in a circular motions, firing as you move , he will lose momentum as he changes direction to track you. You keep shooting as you move and he will go down

[@frogdude21XXX]

I don't know if the aim of this piece was to attempt to debunk defensive shooting, but I assure you, there are simple methods to defeat close-quarters edged weapon attacks when armed with a firearm. I could show these officers (or anyone who knows how to operate their firearm) how to do it in less than 30 seconds. ✌🐸💨

[@tax905972]

The general public isn’t trained to be a police officer.

[@dwightbernheimer331]

That's why, you warn the person once, and if they blink, 2 to the body, 1 to the Head. You'd be surprised at the number of people legally carrying firearms that have no idea what the 21 foot rule is....

[@allencrist5797]

It's not a rule. It's a drill. It's a guideline.

[@rickreynolds5015]

It has been found by police that it should be 33 feet for the officer to actually get an aimed shot

[@frostyrobot7689]

I'm pretty sure that Raylan Givens settled this one...

[@emeraldstories3586]

"The officer can back up... or put a table in front of him" Or he could have his gun drawn, that would work too.

[@wadesworld6250]

They get criticized for having their gun drawn too. "All he had was a knife - there was no need to have your gun out."

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

@@wadesworld6250 What's the old saying, "better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

[@TheBuddyLama]

In the example suggesting the officer should back up or take cover behind an obstacle, the threat was obvious, the subject was brandishing a weapon, and the officer had drawn his gun and was already aiming it at the subject. If the officer already has his gun out and is pointing at the subject, distance becomes less of an issue or a non-issue, and cover is unnecessary. (Chit has already got real.)

[@deplorabledave1048]

Agreed. If your gun is already drawn, You need to be planted and ONLY concerned about AIMING AND TRIGGER CONTROL. More peace...from better accuracy.

[@jefferygreen4740]

The 21 foot rule came about during trining, but is NOT A RULE. It's a basic of reaction time. The 21' rule was based on training on a range, with no intervening factor, the officer is aware of the threat is dressed with no hinderance for the use of the weapon.

[@shoebert31]

Danny Crowe taught me this

[@althreedthree1375]

That’s not the point The point is if he is running at you before you draw your weapon Of course if your weapon is already drawn you have a chance 21 foot tueller principal was the concept that you have not yet drawn your weapon

[@johnmooney9444]

There is no such thing as the "21' rule". It's the result of a test using experienced police officers. It is the absolute minimum distance required by a trained individual, who knows what is about to happen, for a self-defense reaction. The actual distance for a trained professional in a real life situation required to effectively recognize and react to a threat is at least twice that distance. For a civilian, such myself, figure 70 ft or more.

[@brettalexander220]

magnum revolvers really shine in a charging assailant situation, one maybe two shots and done. these 9mm arent cutting it

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

What if it's dark, the muzzle flash will ruin your night vision. Do you wear your ear plugs/muffs all the time if not there goes your hearing. Two out the 5 senses, and in this case the very two senses you definitely need at the moment. So there better be only one attacker and you better hit him with a lethal shot the first time.

[@brettalexander220]

@@zombieapocalypse3837 Magnums tend to destroy limbs and craniums, there wouldn't need to be a second shot.

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

@@brettalexander220 Gotta get that first shot on target though, shot placement. And when adrenaline is surging through one's body and the 'fight or flight' response that is hardwired into everyone isn't tamed by realistic training things tend to go awry.

[@brettalexander220]

@@zombieapocalypse3837 thats more on the shooter than the type of gun itself.

[@skipmars7979]

Perhaps Kung-Fu classes are in order.

[@arsenic3714]

It would be better if there were multiple people and every time a random person would attack whilst other things going on in the background

[@eeNORMous1]

Damn cops have it bad

[@rjmprod]

What are you gonna drive and also stepped inside, so he can get the shot off and get out of the way of still attacking knife man..!

[@ciscokidkid6580]

Funny and some states say you need ten rounds only. Gun control is stupid.

[@rdg1244]

How about a 1000 lumen pistol light? Will that do anything?

[@Vladpryde]

More of these rioting clowns in Philly need to see this. And they need to stop getting their information from Hollywood action movies. It's called LETHAL Force.....not Wounding Force.

[@THEBLACKANARCHIST]

Lmaooooo this guy

[@Vladpryde]

@@THEBLACKANARCHIST I said nothing wrong. What part of LETHAL Force do you not understand? Or do you think police self-defense work should be based on Hollywood action movies?

[@THEBLACKANARCHIST]

@@Vladpryde I think all pigs should get slaughtered but that's just my opinion

[@Vladpryde]

@@THEBLACKANARCHIST So you didn't contribute anything constructive here, just tough guy talk from a radical Left-wing nutjob. Thanks for playing Chairman Mao.

[@danilsmith7292]

nice with the experement

[@nighttrails2walk]

Since when is the criminal the victim? Go woke get poked.

[@Falconing89]

Just standard tactic for any Cod Apex Csgo players

[@ethandumas6937]

What about private citizians do i.have to give my killer or rapist more advanrage than the 21 feer?

[@Torgo1969]

Massad Ayoob has many videos available (some on youtube) but he emphasizes Ability, Opportunity, and Jeopardy as the 3 criteria justifying deadly force, and all 3 must be present. If you use deadly force in self-defense and are prosecuted, you MUST be able to articulate to the judge and jury the facts. Such as the studies that demonstrate 21 feet in 1.5 seconds as the long-established baseline for an average knife-wielding assailant's ability. He also warns that MANY defense attorneys are not familiar with defending innocent clients, and such an attorney should be fired. There are organizations such as USCCA that have a number of specialized deadly-force attorneys, so I am a dues-paying member of that organization.

[@jerrycraig6522]

Hey, I have that same measure deal, I should have got the one with the bigger wheel!!!

[@scottdunkirk8198]

A MINIMUM OF 21 FEET

[@lorenzolohman451]

You might learn or teach them to side step an attacker. And knife defense from martial artists standpoint.

[@Simon-lq5uk]

Yeah that's kinda one thing I noticed. The officer doing the scenario didn't even try to dodge or sidestep the guy with the fake knife. Obviously you don't just wanna shoot and be stationary. You wanna attack and move away at the same time to increase your chances of survival.

[@matilda6851]

That’s not the point of the experiment tho. They’re showing you how easily someone can close the gap, not how to avoid it

[@BenderdickCumbersnatch]

I have a different, kinda novel idea: Don't charge at police with a knife if you want to live. Is that too much to ask of some dumb people of certain groups?

[@michaelshanahan4965]

Problem with this of course, it’s a setup and the officer knows what he’s going to do and is waiting for him. If you’re surprised (more than likely) and the weapon is concealed (more than likely) this wouldn’t e close. Situational awareness is your real defense.

[@emeraldstories3586]

If you're in that situation shouldn't your gun already be out? Seems pretty stupid to be giving them an advantage by keeping it holstered.

[@conundrumconundrum5589]

I KNEW THIS DAY WAS COMING, PUBLIC OPINION MORE IMPORTANT THAT FACT, REALITY AND SCIENCE. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO BE A COP GIVEN THAT ATTITUDE. YOU WILL DIE STUPIDLY AND NEVER MIND THE ONES THAT LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES TO LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES. CALL THE UNREALISTIC SOBs FROM PERF NEXT TIME YOU NEED SOMEONE TO SAVE YOUR LIFE. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT IS IN THEIR POLICY. LET THE LAWSUITS INCREASE AND WE THE CITIZENS HAVE TO PAY OUT MORE AND MORE. THE PUBLIC OPINION USE OF FORCE POLICY WILL CAUSE THE POLICE TO LOSE COURT EVERY TIME. THE POLICE MIGHT AS WELL SHUT THE DOORS AND GO HOME. WOW!

[@jbonegw]

conundrum conundrum unfortunately too much of society is oblivious to reality as they watch time pass by sheltered under their rocks.

[@lostinthemoonlight]

IRL: Person is unarmed, cop shoots anyway, sprinkles crack.

[@christopherkilian8826]

Dave Chappele?

[@mjohnstonflying]

before the media went totally woke.

[@Hunter-dl1gd]

Assuming there is more space in the house or outside no one accounts for the shooter to just backup a few steps when the running starts lol

[@Torgo1969]

Good point, as a civilian I practice at the range shooting at 7 yards with both hands on the pistol, but I practice shooting from retention at 5 yards.

[@poorsvids4738]

Might I sugest agin, a skul-gun for my head. Yesterday in Batery Park, some scum we all know pushes smack for NSF gets jumpy and draws. I take 2 .22's, 1 in flesh, 1 in augs, befor I can get out that dam asalt gun. If I could kil just by thought, it would be beter. Is it my job to be a human target-practis backstop?

[@adamweber1545]

And it should be generally accepted that a private citizen (civilian) needs more than 21 feet to react for self defense because they don’t have police training, so they are more vulnerable.

[@billfast]

Are these depts trying to get their cops killed?

[@IskurBlast]

Yep.

[@tyb2526]

This is what happens when old fat guys sitting behind a desk try to neuter the guys putting in the work.

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

If the guy with the knife is in a dead sprint you can probably side step as you’re drawing and gain some time

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

The only problem with sidestepping is it’s horrible for first shot accuracy. And that’s a shot you HAVE to land right on target, or else sidestepping ain’t gonna do shit for you

[@Torgo1969]

@@JohnMaxGriffin It may be horrible for 1st-shot accuracy, but then again the assailant is going to be maybe 2-3 yards away instead of the original 7 yards. Might this be a mitigating factor to improve accuracy?

[@jamesstpatrick8493]

Don't use gun, use your hands

[@Investing_WithDrake_Culver]

2nd step use a flame thrower

[@orgoon7697]

Годно, спасибо

[@likeabigboiii6324]

Pojolste

[@theresamusic3373]

Against a trained Marksman no go.

[@nickportlock2796]

Hope blm in philly are watching this.

[@user-bx3hz6wl5m]

In addition, backing up is a stupid idea. You never move where you can't see.

[@chrissawyer4060]

That's when I wouldn't be drawing my pistol but meet their momentum with a solid front kick and the stick. If someone brings a knife to a gunfight you better bet they know how to use it.

[@possemis]

this is the dumbest thing i heard all day, good luck fighting a knife wielding criminal in hand to hand.

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

Good Luck with that.

[@thomascapitalmgt]

Cops should train DAILY with quick draw, etc. I do weekly and I am a civilian...........Practice Jeff Cooper's technique....

[@OCLVIG]

In the martial arts it has always been 25 feet.

[@chasa4347]

Let's see; 21 feet may not be enough to keep you from getting stabbed, but John Q. Public thinks that is too far? Glad I'm not a LEO in this day and age. :(

[@martijnt6262]

👍

[@KaiTenSatsuma]

Is that Alex Jones?

[@marcgiles-sims6682]

Who just stands there

[@zombieapocalypse3837]

It's called the Stress Response (Fight or Flight or Faint or Freeze) and everyone responds in one of these four ways under duress.