2197 The Infinite CVT And Wind Turbine Control

[@IowaKeith]

I cannot imagine how much time you spend 3d printing all the parts for these episodes. Lol. We appreciate you and all you do for us.

[@Biggles732]

He can only be preparing two weeks in advance of his video posts . Not the night before.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@lunatik9696]

The $ to print - not that much, The time to design - a very long time

[@pauldymott8991]

Ha, brilliant, clever and simple. Nice one Rob

[@memejeff]

This is great. Thank you. I have genuinely needed something like this for a while. It solves so many little mechanical problems. Like a handcrank genrrator or even a small portable water wheel. So much potential.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@memejeff]

@@ThinkingandTinkeringNo problem :D

[@canonicaltom]

This is an old design, a type of differential drive, that takes more energy than it can deliver. So it isn't useful for generators or vehicles. Note that any torque that's delivered requires the electric motor to work just as much as the engine.

[@memejeff]

@@canonicaltom That's ok. I want to use it for a robot. Agility is key in it's design. I will just use two similar motors and probably use it as an aux set of wheels so that it will only be used as needed.

[@canonicaltom]

@@memejeff Sounds like a great idea.

[@gee3883]

I'd be happy to be a tenth as clever as this bloke, he never ceases to amaze me.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

lol - cheers mate

[@VEC7ORlt]

You're selling yourself short.

[@tcmtech7515]

Commercial wind turbines do it in the generator itself, not the gearbox, using what is called subsynchronous/super synchronous operation by using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) to produce a variable rotating field in the rotor of the generator itself that shifts the generator's primary synchronous speed up or down from its static mechanical one. No need for complex, heavy and expensive mechanical systems when a simple electrical solution already exists.

[@dh2032]

? explane i the demonstration video fire smoke and bits going everywhere then ?

[@tcmtech7515]

@@dh2032 I don't know what you are referring to.

[@GOAE7777]

​@@tcmtech7515 If you fully watched the video, you would see when he showed a clip of a wind turbine that burned up due to an overspeed condition. As great as electronics are, they are often more prone to failure than mechanical components, and despite you claiming it's "simple" it is very much not as simple as a set of gears and the simpler solutions are almost always more reliable. There's a reason wind turbines often have friction brakes and can feather, it's because using the generator as the sole speed regulator is just too risky; the generator is fine to use as a shock absorber to buffer sudden changes in turbine velocity, but only a complete fool would exclusively rely on it for speed control. If a permanent magnet breaks off (if one is used), a control board burns out, a ground fault in the electronics occurs, the coil insulation wears and shorts, etc you've got a potential runaway turbine. I'm glad people in aerospace figured out redundancy, because if they took your approach planes would be falling out of the sky regularly.

[@vink6163]

Wouldn't that just be for matching the grid frequency though? Whereas the demonstration in the video was using it to limit the maximum rotation speed of the generator to stop it from tearing itself apart. As far as I'm aware, commercial wind turbines don't use VFDs for that, they change the blade angle and apply the brakes, to avoid what you see at 6:50

[@tcmtech7515]

@@vink6163 They use multiple systems to keep them under control.

[@IzzyZon]

Although I wish I had you as my teacher in high school, being the very best.. I dropped maths etc., because I had horrible impatient teachers. Now I'm enjoying so much, how you show and explain. I admit I sometimes have to watch 2, 3 times before I 'get it'. Doesn't matter, even being 70 almost I dream of making little things and even understand what I'm making, all thanks to you!! ❤

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Wow, thank you mate

[@christopherd.winnan8701]

If the education system focussed less on the myth of 'learning disabitliies" and instead tried fixing the many existing and much more obvious "teaching disbilities" such as impatience and outdated pedagogies, then perhaps it would fail far less students.

[@IzzyZon]

@@christopherd.winnan8701 True, but it also had to do with the time. It was 55 y. ago when this happened. I had no learning disabilities, the opposite was true. But I was a young girl, easily intimidated by Bully teachers, who didn't like to have girls in science or maths classes. I wanted to become a tropical agricultural engineer. Although I passed all exams, I still was refused entry, because 1 girl and 150 boys was not done. I went to uni, studied childpsychology (got my degree but really hated it). Went on studying Soc. Cult. Anthropology specialising in... Tropical Indiginous Farming methods, in Central America. Still annoyed it costed me so much time, to get where I wanted to be, if it weren't for those Bully teachers.. Now I'm retired, Permaculture small farmer, almost off grid, almost self-sufficient, learning so so much and wish I had learned much more of science when I was a teen. Well, it keeps my brain working...

[@d.marbus1493]

I watch this too. My physics teacher pressed me to change subjects due to my math skills, (the dwawings, wiring and building were mostly ok). I had never taken maths as a subject because I thought it would be too difficult. On the plus side maths for chemistry, I could do. Maybe because I could picture the reactions in my mind. Pure maths is just too abstract!

[@kadmow]

yep - enter the planetary torque splitter - as seen in the Toyota Prius... (teaching people the similarities between a differential and an epicyclical gear opens avenues.. All are 3 I/O gear-trains.) NB. As used in oilfield work - with a hydraulic secondary, the fixed main prime mover speed allows for everything from full reverse through neutral and full forward without "affecting" available power... It also allows a whole range of "low torque" - or even "lower efficiency / higher loss, CVT types to work on the low torque side to achieve nearly any outcome - with lower losses than using the CVT as the primary torque path... However for idling a wind turbine - once we are dealing with complex systems - feathering and braked rotors are the other side of the "power" equation (generators still get overpowered - no matter the fangt gearing on the back end.. cheers for democratizing great feats of ingenuity. .

[@totherarf]

Looking at it the opposite way and having one input you get a Differential (assuming the right choice of ratio) just like the rear axle of your car! Truly interesting stuff to think about! Once again .... Thanks mate!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice comment - cheers mate

[@kadmow]

- and for fun, take a look at how spur-gear differentials work.. Another hybrid between epicycles (planetary gears) and regular spur gears - eliminating the bevels. Most interesting ways to retain the balanced shaft output without a final speed correction stage.

[@Jordan4Ibanez]

This can definitely stop wind turbines from blowing up actually. Excellent work!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@maltes.1007]

fun fact: modern wind turbines use this principle already. But nevertheless, very nice explanation!

[@glendenog9095]

the prius has been using the two motor planetary gearset for 20 odd years now, one of the things I like most about it (see: prius power split device). the wheels and mg2(motor/generator) are connected to the ring gear, mg1 connects to the sun gear, and the ice(engine) connects to the planet carrier. It starts the engine, provides traction, and reverse, and generation/regeneration. Sometimes it even takes power from the ICE to generate from mg1 to power mg2, what we referred to as "heretical mode" as nobody in the peanut gallery thought it made sense, not unlike the faster than the wind downwind affair. fwiw using the mg to hold the shaft doesn't take a whole lot of power since rpm is zero (power = rpm * torque). I'm not convinced it is a better fit for turbines than variable pitched blades however. And hopefully you will clarify that "it spins about the same rate" isn't because you have created a variable speed drive, but rather you have fixed the ratio of one input and therefore fixed the other, but it is about the same rate solely because it is a very low ratio, and would have the same problems and more once geared up for a generator. If you don't understand how fixing one input ratio fixes the other ratio, then you are well on your way to making free energy videos :)

[@lucywucyyy]

huh, i was tempted to buy a prius a long time ago but put off by the cvt because i thought it was one of those gross belt type ones

[@percypodger9067]

Another WOW! - curiously brilliant perception, complex yet simple, and all rolled into one, with real application. Well done yet again. (PS hoping 2170 weird machine grabs your further interest.)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Awesome! Thank you!- and i do like that motor

[@eliyahzayin5469]

Doing some quick calculations, it unfortunately looks like this system still has a constant mechanical advantage. However, you can get some insanely low reductions as the thinner the ring gear, the less the output shaft rotates.

[@MushookieMan]

I was just going to say because it is made of simple meshing gears it has to be equivalent to a constant mechanical advantage

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@petergerdes1094]

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But you do increase the mechanical advantage by driving the ring gear from the same source relative to not driving it (each config is still constant but moving from one to the other does increase your advantage). That's not a CVT but combine it with a one way ratchet and it's an interesting way to do a discrete transmission in a way which doesn't disconnect power to shift to a higher gear.

[@martinbonfiore7871]

Sorry, didn't see your post before. I just posted basically the same comment. Not at all a constant velocity but maybe useful for low reductions as you said. No relevance at all to keep wind turbines from blowing up as far as I can see.

[@mmparker42]

Absolutely brilliant design! Love the simplicity of the idler gear.

[@ashedtogether]

I don't understand the use of the idle gear at the end. Are you saying that introducing that idle gear ends up with a non-linear relationship between input and output speed? I just can't wrap my head around how that could be possible whilst still delivering torque. If input/output is still a linear relationship, what's the actual benefit of this setup? I think I'm missing something here.

[@altair7001]

The idle gear is just to reverse the rotation of the feedback component, he's adding negative feedback to limit the speed of the output. If the feedback was positive, the whole thing would runaway in seconds and explode.

[@ashedtogether]

​@@altair7001 I think the key part of my question is the 'non-linear' thing. If the feedback is linear, then it's subtraction from the final speed would also be linear no?

[@altair7001]

@@ashedtogether OK I get what you mean. Personally I don't see how this could produce a non-linear relationship between input & output if everything is geared together. There would have to be some external input that is independent from the rest. I would like to experiment with this to find what is the response of this actual setup presented here. Very intriguing!

[@altair7001]

I think that the geared feedback loop changes the slope of input speed vs output speed, as seen on a graph. The response is linear, but the slope is shallower than the 45 degree slope we would see if the input was connected directly to the output. But to get a real speed control, which would give on the graph, a rising slope that flattens out at some speed and then remains flat, I think that some independent input is necessary.

[@ashedtogether]

​@@altair7001 Likewise. I've a feeling though that the idle gear addition probably doesn't actually bring anything useful to the table, but I do think there could be some really interesting applications for the setup without. I'm sure you could make a kind of dynamic gear box and I can see that being potentially very useful for electric motor driven systems to maximise torque efficiency at different output speeds. [edit] about slope though, isn't that just generic gear ratio?

[@davidpeckham2405]

Neat set up. With two ring gears setups and the idler in the centre, I think you could use them to drive tracks on each side of a track vehicle. By driving the idler gear you could add rpm to one side and subtract rpm equally on the other side. At a stand still it would rotate the 0:15 track vehicle. You just solved the need for two trans missions in a tank!

[@frontagulus]

You'll be pleased to know that that approach has been invented and commercialized. Caterpillar introduced differential steering with their D8N bulldozer amongst others. Works well!

[@TimeSurfer206]

@@frontagulus O Dang! And here I was all impressed, when I got on a backhoe with JOYSTICKS!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that's cool - nice idea cheers mate

[@dondywondy]

Brilliant! Now I see why I CAN'T stop watching your videos!!!! Thank you for taking the time to think and tinker, discovering BEAUTIFUL ideas!

[@mikejward]

Amazing, just stumbled on your videos and thingyverse files. Learning a lot in just one day. 🙏

[@VinokDesign]

The prius 2 used this planetary gearbox system with 2 electric motors on it and 1 combustion engine on it. Yes already in 2000 ;-).... But that prius 2 was so ugly !!!so i dont want to listen how incredible it was what they made;-) it was a real cvt no gear switching ect. You get pushed in your seat and it stays like that untill you take of your foot on the pedal. Still driving its 370k km 🎉 best investment in a car 😅

[@VinokDesign]

Also have a look at the combustion cycle of the prius 2:" Atkinson cycle" it make more work than a normal car by making the explosion stroke longer then the compression stroke.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice - thanks for sharing mate

[@robertheinkel6225]

My new Sienna doesn’t have a tranny, but does have a planetary gear drive. So far nobody has been able to explain how it works or controlled.

[@MatthewTaylorAu]

The Prius still surprises me. Radical new drivetrain was a huge risk. Putting that new drivetrain in anything other than a conventional body shape seemed suicidal to me. I’m a practical person and the drivetrain efficiency appealed to me. The long delay in upgrading the Prius to a plug in hybrid and increasing battery range cause many to look elsewhere. Still a great car.

[@garethbaus5471]

@@MatthewTaylorAu I have one of the original plug in Prius. The lack of battery range is its biggest drawback.

[@andrewbernhardt3061]

Something doesn't quite make sense in my mind. If the output is a constant speed as you speed up the input, it should also be constant as you slow down the input. But if you slow the input until it reaches 0 RPM, the output must slow down to 0 RPM as well. How linear is the ratio of input to output speed?

[@grumpysavior]

yeah its not possible - another thing that shows this is that if you took a video of it working and sped the video up 2x, both the input gear and output gear would appear to speed up 2X. it looks like it works but it can't be working like he's saying

[@georgedowning5092]

So I think if you work out the maths of the gear ratios involved in this setup (and any similar setup), it all ends up as an equivalent linear gear with a very large gear ratio. This is why the speed doesn't appear to change

[@SaltGrains_Fready]

Intricate Food for thought. The makings of a self governing speed ratio without sensors and additional/external control structures are highly viable in many situations.

[@chriscurrie5238]

Very interesting. It feels like the gear equivalent of a pressure bypass valve on a pump, the higher the pressure the more the bypass opens to maintain pressure at the set point. Or negative feedback on an amplifier to tame the massive gain of a transistor.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Great point!

[@ronarmstrong835]

A while back, I sketched something like this, the difference being it used a differential instead of planetary gears. You setup is just as interesting.

[@peterwiley4383]

You never cease to amaze, Rob. So cool.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

lol - cheers mate

[@AndreaDingbatt]

❤ Fantastic Idea 💡👍 I'm just about to ask and you start explaining Exactly what I was going to ask,Lol 😆 Idle gearing system is the Answer to my Question!! You have So Much Fun, Robert I suspect this is not "Work" Lol!😎👍👍 (If you find a job you enjoy,, you never work again,, I've no idea who 1st said this but it's So True!!)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

oh wow - glad i could help

[@RaperJason]

You have just leveled up to genius mate very impressed 👍

[@pedtrog6443]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rotational speed of wind turbines is not dependent on wind speed but is controlled by alrering the pitch of the blades - much the same pricipal as applied on many propeller driven aircraft.

[@ridrugo182]

wait till the wind gets windier

[@EvenTheDogAgrees]

Of course, the reason you want to limit the blade speed is not just so you don't blow up the generator; you also want to keep the blades firmly attached to the hub. The faster they spin, the stronger the forces that want to rip them off.

[@daviddobravec1785]

Hvala.

[@Kiddieacat1]

I have loved gears since high school and I still love today at 59. And now a days we can 3d print them. Who said it can't been. Great Vid, Thank you 👍

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

I want this in hybrid cars. The simplicity of mechanics of this is actually out of this world

[@VinokDesign]

It's in a prius

[@stephenkeller8208]

It’s literally all Toyota hybrids. Prius, Crown, Camry Hybrid, anything with a blue-tint Toyota badge has this inside it.

[@551moley]

Some Aircraft use a constant speed drive unit (CSDU) to drive a generator at a precise frequency needed for the avionics systems, E-CVT in a Mitsubishi hybrid is also similar to the Toyota.

[@paulbrancato8262]

Ford, Toyota and Chrysler all use it. Been around for decades.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

apparently it already is!

[@matthewpacillo6888]

Thanks!

[@purdunetae2995]

Proof that the Sun and planets are flat and not sphere's! 🤣😂🤣 Another great video. Thanks very much Robert!

[@luizcarlosf2]

Do you know that the Rav4 Hybrid works in a similar way ? They use an 8KW motor between the wheels and the engine. The relative sincronization in terms of rpms generates the ratio

[@hazenwilson4944]

Definitely useful for a fly wheel. For a fly wheel you might want to be able to speed up the output instead of keep it constant that way if the fly wheel is spinning fast you can still add energy to it.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that's a god thought - thank you for sharing that idea

[@alexlo7708]

Connect the ring gear to the flywheel.

[@thewheelieguy]

Some city buses do in fact use a flywheel and variable mechanical drive to store energy from braking for acceleration.

[@wrekced]

Hey! That gearset that keeps the output speed close to the same speed for any speed of input works like an automatic gain control (AGC) circuit! The idle gear is the resistor in the feedback loop that sets the feedback level. Your current version with equal gears looks like a feedback loop that puts the output back in without reducing it. I also see some similarity to a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit as well. I wonder if other useful circuits could be made of gears. For instance, a zero volt switch (ZVS) circuit could be reproduced as a clutch that only engages when the input shaft is not moving.

[@j.christie2594]

Intresting thoughts tou have, somewhere on YT is Analog wooden computer. Gearing and latches were arranged together, antikythera device like. That clutch, think about Weights and Gyroscopic precession force and gearing. Bicycle back in the day tried a Automatic Shifter, levers and weights effectively shifting by Gyroscopic force. The faster speed, greater force on, orbiting lever(s) to gearing. Don't think this bike with shifter exists today, but I think it's not a bad idea using gyroscope's to act as switches.

[@RexAnothership]

Thant is brilliant indeed. The only problem I see is that of startup. The generator needs aprox. 3500 rpm. If the wind is light then you need a huge input torque to get it started as the constant speed will try to start the generator at 3500 RPM. It would make more sense to use the electric motor input controlled by a micro controller with wind speed and torque sensor to achieve a smooth controlled startup. Love the content. I'm sure this compact variable speed transmission will be a huge hit in the years to come.

[@Stefan-w7w]

Congratulations, Rob, great job!

[@johannbornman4000]

Such a pleasure to watch your content. Your knowledge base always amazes me. Thank You!!

[@DaremoKamen]

For a car, what if you had two electric motors. The power feed would have a fork, with one going directly into the more powerful drive motor and the other going into a variable resistor and then the smaller control motor? As you increase power to the control motor would you also reduce power to the drive motor? Thus slowing the output in two ways?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

interesting idea mate - i don't know - but i like it

[@charlesjmouse]

Very interesting, thank you. Curiosity: I wonder what would happen if you swapped the input and output? Would you have a self-regulating CVT that usefully varied it's output speed as a function of input torque and speed..?

[@jasonmorello1374]

primary thing that comes to mind for me, would be that this should be resulting in better torq at output as well, so if put out to an at the rim generator of 3-5 times the size and maybe instead of a direct idle, maybe something that curves the increase, which should allow the better torq thru more easily perhaps. This and a centripetal governor flywheel, and you have peak leveling as soon as you tune all this to go at the right time.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I would think so

[@saccaed]

What happens when the output shaft is driven of the final setup? Wondering if it becomes a constant speed input, variable speed output based on input torque.

[@Speaking_on_mute]

THATS interesting. Did you have any specific applications in mind? I gather that certain types of engines must remain at a nearly fixed rpm to perform efficiently. If the output of the (now reversed) system is stopped, torque would be maximum to get the mass moving. Once it’s moving, torque falls but rpm increases to continue to add force to the gathering momentum. It sounds perfect.

[@chronosferatu345]

Thanks for the video. Such a pleasure to watch and to think about. Now, I'm wondering how many Sun, Planet, Ring gears one can fit or set up, like a fractal, within a master Sun, Planet, Ring gear system and what it would do or what use it could be.

[@thewheelieguy]

There are Compound Planetary gear systems that use the outside of the ring gear as the sun for another set of planets and outer ring gear. I think you can get extra high reduction ratios this way.

[@Charlie-Oooooo]

Oh this is brilliant Robert! Mechanical feedback speed controller/governor. Awesome! 👍 Cheers!

[@shane9622]

Ingenious ideas good sir, wondering instead of having the constant drag from idler gear if there could be a vane and sail mechanism add to only engage the external ring gear when a certain rpm is met. Of course, we could install a tach on the idler gear but looking for something that could be engaged with mechanical means versus using energy to engage. Either way amazing video and great presentation of an cvt/evct.

[@dSquared0162]

This is really thought-provoking... Making me wonder if the same (or better) could also be achieved with magnet gears...? For wind turbines though, we want to reduce slow speed by relatively little and yet reduce high speed to a greater degree... which is where a 'feedback' controlled CVT sounds really interesting.

[@Speaking_on_mute]

Good question. Magnetic planetary gears?

[@AdamBechtol]

So neat how you think and solve similiar upcoming problems that I have been thinking about as well. Gj.

[@yngndrw.]

This reminds me of the differential steering mechanism used in tanks. Interesting idea to apply it to wind turbines.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@maltes.1007]

not a new idea but a demonstration of the gearing of modern wind turbines.

[@bobvalley2221]

Isn't this the basis of how a Toyota Prius "transmission" works?

[@toyotaprius79]

And the Ford Model T. But instead of two brake shoes for the gears, a Prius uses two motor generators that makes it a "series parallel" eCVT

[@Francois_Dupont]

cars CVT use a metal strap and conical pulley with centrifugal control. they might be hydroponically controlled, but its the same as a scooter. shorts/jKkaq1yvuZU

[@VinokDesign]

Yes it is :-) lovely how everybody hates the Prius in 2000-2010. I always was big fan of what they made. If you explain it to normal people without saying it was in that ugly hybrid it's amazing to see how every body reacts now: put in in a f1 ,make a patent. Use it in hybrids ect :-D

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

is it? - that's cool to know - it means i am not thinking crazy lol - thanks for that mate

[@Francois_Dupont]

@@ThinkingandTinkering it isnt. i had linked a video and explained it, but it was censored by youtube. basically a prius has a scooter transmission, its two conical pulled and a metal belt.

[@orpheuscreativeco9236]

Nice work Rob!!! Brilliant thinking as per usual ✌️ Thanks for sharing!

[@jamesross1003]

Loving this Rob! I had a thought, yes it would work great in a turbine but it would be brilliant in a simple gravity battery build. Biggest problem with gravity battery setups that I have worked with is a braking mechanism so as to not overheat the resistive load. Dump the excessive current into your feedback and problem solved. You turning your gears got my gears(in my head) moving LOL! That could be dangerous if I were to believe what those around me tell me. Thanks again!

[@ΚΩΝΣΤΑΝΤΙΝΟΣΓΡΗΓΟΡΙΑΔΗΣ-β3ο]

You have a gift talking for complex things with great simplicity. Thanks.

[@ducatiparts110mb]

Interesting, however couldn't follow the bit where you talked about the feedback path. But... don't wind turbines run at synchronous speed and change the blades' pitch to control the power being collected fromn the passing wind?

[@geoffkeeler5106]

Excellent, thanks for the brilliant idea and demo. As usual!

[@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542]

To make the compound gear assembly super precise, especially, without doing a whole lot of math, put a double cone clutch on it to alter your feedback rotor, and this can be controlled by either a centrifugal governor, or a hydraulic flow resistance governor.

[@philipspencer1834]

Fantastic. I really enjoyed that. Your enthusiasm is infectious 😎👍

[@rockyrodriguez2351]

Nice work and good explanation Robert, I’m one of your subscribers now.

[@HollisInman]

You have been so much inspiration for tech that will change the world.... And I do appreciate the finer points of mechanical systems... But the best thing to do is eliminate the biggest sin of any mechanical system: friction.

[@jackpalmer5067]

Fascinating concept not fully sure understand all of it for practical applications so if I put a term or turbine shaft down to the middle and hooked motors to the gears, is there a way to have the turbine drive the main and then be able to put charge to the planetary gears power output or am I just totally off base? Planetary gears hooked to three phase motors.

[@tommartello7690]

I had this idea also. I was thinking of higher power systems, like a vehicle. I got to the stage where I ..so far .. reasoned that the control input, i.e. the input controlling the gear ratio, would need to have a similar power to the main drive. Other than that, and maybe for low power systems, it is an excellent CVT transmission. I hope someone can counter my assertion here. I just love your channel !

[@RobertBeck-pp2ru]

Brilliance and enthusiasm. What a great combination!

[@Guardian_Arias]

I've seen CVTs with electronic speed controll concepts before. Never understood why they faded away. I also don't know why generators with variable out put aren't more prominent. Instead of using permanent magnets and a coil why not use a small PM Generator that feeds DC power to one set of coils of the bigger generator to adjust the voltage and current output of the primary generator as the speed and torque of the turbine fluctuates.

[@551moley]

Brushless generators do what you describe, either controlled with a capacitor to power the field windings or an AVR, (Automatic Voltage Regulator)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@crispycornbread]

Robert I'm going to have to agree with a few other commentors here that the last build was not a variable transmission, the speed of the gear driving the outside of the ring must be controlled independently of the sun for the ratio to vary. It does make me curious about how much power you would need to send to the outer gear in such a system for it to work, equal to the that going to the sun or could it be reduced?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I don't mind folks disagreeing with me mate - folks disagree all the time and I am just showing folks what did and what I think - if folks think differently - no issue for me - cheers

[@crispycornbread]

@@ThinkingandTinkering Maybe I'm just confused, regardless I'd be interested to see this topic elaborated upon. Great vidoes, god bless.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

apparently the system is already in the prius - I didn't know that until i read the comments but I am not unhappy to hear about it as it means I am not thinking crazy thoughts lol

[@NeilJB]

@@ThinkingandTinkering All of the gears are constant mesh, no clutches or fluid couplings. You made it constant-ratio the moment you put in that idler at the end. If you disagree, how about accurately measuring the input-to-output ratio at different speeds/loads?

[@r.c.obrien4595]

Hey Robert, i hav a suggestion for a video id like to see. I see alot of people online using 'crisco' vegetable shortening to create extremely long burning candles. Like, 24 days straight from a single candle. Im wondering if your forever wick would work and how this could be used to create an emergency heater. Also, it would be interesting to see whether its efficient or perhaps just false economy. Id like to see that video!!

[@jakobsutton5561]

Great video Robert! Quick question, when you add the feedback gear to this system, the output is constant no matter the input (I'm guessing this the extra speed is converted to torque). However, what happens when you run the system via the output shaft? Does the transmission keep the output(the new input) the same speed? If so, is it then when applying more torque it equates to more input (the new output) speed?

[@clivehaynes2183]

Very interesting and great to see in operation however would it be simpler to make a cv transmission using a belt and two coned pulleys with a bob weight type governor?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

surprisingly enough it isn't

[@moonfther]

always informative ideas to explore!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Glad you like them!

[@transfer2822]

One question. Can you test the output torque, because for wind turbine it may somehow work if both are inputs, but for other usage second "ring motor" that is slowing down in fact is "spending energy (torque) to cancel the sun motors torque". Real output torque is around 0. And yes it is working as CVT but only from constant 1:N -> 1:1 when two motors are working "together" in the same "direction". Otherwise, good idea!

[@karlh6692]

I didn't understand how fixed gear sizes were able to output a variable. can you update it showing the ratios between input and output changing?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

sure

[@nitsuadivad]

They can't. The only balance effect here is friction. Without that, fixed gears will give a fix gear ratio.

[@karlh6692]

@@nitsuadivad If it works on back pressure maybe a air resistance governor would allow it to change the ratio and increase the torque during high speed winds. Maybe extra windings could draw output in high wind also.

[@lostguy2025]

Man,... that's absolutely BRILLIANT I think. I'd love use that design in the gearbox of an ebike! ... Just totally ingenious.

[@martinbonfiore7871]

I don't think this is a CVT is the sense normally used. Take for example the CVT in my car. It takes power input from the engine and works as a transmission to trade rotational speed for torque to match driving needs. The CV part i.e. the continuously variable descriptor refers to the ability to control the reduction ratio (the gear ratio is a conventional transmission) from an input control supplied to the transmission. Thinking of this as a black box, there is one power input, one power output and one control input. The control input, in a first order sense does not supply power input to the transmission, only a control "signal". This is not the case for the described all gear architecture. The control input is via the electric motor which while it does control output gear ratio also is required to supply power. One way of thinking about this is asking the following question: can the all gear approach behave like the CVT car transmission i.e. it has one power input, one power output and one control input (the control input not a source of power input) and therefore, first order, the power output equal the power input with no contribution from the control input. Unfortunately, I don't think it can be done with only gears.

[@Cooliemasteroz]

This would also allow a greater torque output during high wind so that extra current can be supplied and the extra energy can be harvested during high winds rather than waisted if brakes were to be used.

[@francovance1]

I think something similar to this was used to steer Cat Challenger tractors, an hydraulic motor was geared to one of the outputs, its been a while, can't remember exactly how it was set up_the term Controlled Differential comes to mind.

[@ErikLevholt]

Doesn't that feedback mechanism just increase the gear ratio a constant amount and just always slow it down more?

[@mrunimog1582]

Absolutely. That "feedback" idea can’t work, it just gives that planetary gearset a fixed ratio. It worries me that I had to scroll down this far to find a comment pointing that out..

[@tonycrankhead3634]

We used a controlling arm for pushing the ring gear back n forth at its periphery - the arm being connected at its other end to an eccentric position on a gearing linked to the main sun drive in such a way as to to match the planetary gear ratio. This gives a cyclic drive output which is effectively a constant speed with a sinusoidal variation superimposed, which is what we needed for our new fan/generator technology.

[@evanranshaw4659]

Very interesting! Two thoughts: 1) Are you sure about the exact reason why overspeed conditions cause such spectacular wind turbine failures? Is it really just a matter of the generator spinning too fast, or does it have to do with some type of brake overheating? I would also think that tensile strength of the blades would be a factor at some point as they spin faster and faster, as well as potentially the blade tips starting to go transonic (I'm honestly not sure which would cause problems first, but keep in mind just how massive the diameter of that blade circle is). What about some kind of mechanism to adaptively increase the load on the blades as wind speed increases? (I'm aware that a brake fits that description, but I'm asking if you can think of a way to harvest that extra energy while holding the blades at their happy speed instead of simply using a brake to bleed off the excess as heat). 2) The application that I'm really most excited about for this effect would be the potential for designing a more robust automotive CVT. The current automotive CVT offerings are just junk! They are very fragile and problematic, and they're so different from existing fixed speed automatic transmission designs that most transmission shops won't touch them. You pretty much need a brand new specialist: someone who specializes in CVTs. Besides the aforementioned issues, the current automotive CVT designs don't seem to be able to be scaled up for anything larger than small cars or compact SUVs. Planetary gear sets are tried and true in all sorts of truly heavy duty applications, and they're a familiar part that all existing automotive transmission specialists recognize and are comfortable with. This modification to the operation of a "normal" planetary gear set seems like a small tweak that could realistically be incorporated in a robust way.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

1 - no 2 - like that idea well worth trying out

[@theclearsounds3911]

This thing seems counterproductive to me. You're giving the wind turbine the least amount of mechanical advantage in low wind conditions, and the best mechanical advantage in high wind conditions. Therefore, it won't spin until the wind picks up, then it will spin too fast, causing the blades to fly off. This is similar to what you're saying, which means I agree with you to a point. That being said, it's an ingenious device, and there could be amazing applications for it that are far beyond anything I can think of now.

[@GaryTheRCcar]

Toyota uses this for hybrids

[@Aussieguy72]

You should probably look at how Toyota did the eCVT on my Hybrid Camry, it is similar to what you printed but uses 2 electric motor/generators to get an infinite gear ratio, you could easily replace the hybrid battery with a Capacitor to make a DIY CVT. Most modern wind turbines pivot the blades to slow the spin rate down, the ones I worked on you can actually reverse the pivot on the blades to act as a brake slowing the revolutions to avoid over-spin. I have worked on them with zero rotation in gale force winds.

[@DestianLight]

What I would like to know is under load what then? Will it be harder to control the ratio.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

no idea

[@edwardcarr9702]

You are one smart cookie, brilliant demonstration

[@devtasingh]

Amazing Idea, to fit a feedback system in the gear itself. Thank You for this video! Wonderful. Thank you for your designs and for sharing them.

[@ColdWindPhoenix84]

I'm curious what the torque output does with this set up, and could you use this to maintain steady output to the alternator which would eliminate wild AC? Great idea.

[@karljay7473]

Pretty amazing, near constant speed output with variable speed input. So the torque of the output must be variable. I wonder how you'd make it constant torque output instead of constant speed output. Also, this would be amazing to adapt to a car or truck where you could idle down the freeway and save fuel.

[@JehuMcSpooran]

That's what I was wondering. Does the idler feedback to the ring gear cause an increase in torque when the sun gear increases in RPM?

[@matthewpacillo6888]

Hello my name is Matt ,I live in Maine ,in the USA . MY QUESTION ,because i have a large river closely near my house and it has a variable rate of flow , would it be possible to opperate a water wheel at a constant rpm , say for a genny head , that opperates at the constant of 1,800 rpm or at 3,600 rpm ,using a CVT DESIGNED TRANSMISSION ? SO THAT WHEN THE SPRING ITS able to take the fast flow of water and maintain the gennys needed rpm as such when the fall season its slower ,and have the CVT TRANSMISSION DO THE SAME TO KEEP THE GENNY AT THE CONSTANT NEEDED FOR THE SAME GENNY HEAD ? THANK YOU FOR YOUR CHANNEL AND A AS ALWAYS A TEST FOR THE BRAIN , HOW THE WORLD NEEDS THAT NOW MORE THAN EVER !

[@pauljcampbell2997]

How fantastic! I've never seen anything like it. Thanks very much for the video!

[@slommer5063]

Thanks for the video but I believe you are incorrect. By adding the idler gear you are locking in a given reduction ratio. The speed at your final output still varies with the speed of your input. If you are looking to vary the input speed while producing the same output speed (or vice versa) you will still need to vary the speed of the ring gear which can not be done with a fixed idler gear. Have a look at a the workings of a Constant Speed Drive.

[@NeilJB]

I agree. All he has built is an unnecessarily complicated fixed-ratio gearbox. All the talk about 'feedback' is BS.

[@barlscharkley5411]

I am not an engineer, so perhaps you can explain something to me in simple terms. Current wind turbine generators have an issue with excessive energy input, i.e., the wind blowing too hard and the prop spinning too fast, with the excess energy causing the generator to overheat. If the gear system as described in your video were implemented on such a wind turbine, it would protect the generator, but where would the excess energy go? Wouldn't it end up in the gearbox? How would the heat be dissipated?

[@H.R.F]

Oh, I like KZbin algorithms sometimes! Suddenly it promoted me your videos and your channel. Already subscribed 👍🏻

[@deusexaethera]

This is making my brain hurt. I'm trying to understand how the idler gear that you've added manages to cancel-out the extra input speed to produce the same output speed no matter what the input speed is. That feels like it should require a more complex mechanism than just a couple extra gears, because there's no sensors (electrical or mechanical) in the system.

[@ml3141]

Thus is totally AMAZING! You are a GENIUS!!! 😮 👍👍👍 🧡

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@andreassiegler2238]

Very interesting indeed! But here's a brain teaser: What happens to the input shaft, if you turn the output shaft with this arrangement? Will it arbitrarily change speeds, or find an equilibrium at some point? Then what are the factors?!

[@willclark491]

This is fascinating, but I have to wonder what the consequences are to the output. I feel like there has to be some trade-off here. Clearly, I understand you'll get energy loss from the extra gear train, but would you compromise power output in some other way too?

[@JC-cr5ty]

So this mechanism takes a variable speed and outputs a continuous speed with variable torque. Is there a similar mechanism with variable torque/speed input that outputs a continuous torque. Seems like this would be more useful if you are dealing with power tools. IE. being able to brand an electronic driver that boasts it can break loose the toughest nuts.

[@tigerstar1980]

Dear Robert, can you valutate the efficiency of you CVT? That' a double input gear box right? How much energy do you need for the electric controller for a 50Kw engine?

[@flyingsodwai1382]

Thanks for continuing to make videos!

[@azlandpilotcar4450]

I like the transmission, but I'm convused on the problem statement. You showed a video clip of the blades truning too fast in a windstorm, destroying the turbine. If the problem is variable wind turbine blade speed, don't we want to make that constant and vary the output? A high wind should turn the turbine with a higher torque, but at near constant speed.

[@jakobbb6405]

The problem that you have with these small "primitive" wind turbines is that you could end up turning your generator too fast and destroy it. Bigger wind turbines like the one in the clip generally don't have that problem as they have variable pitch propellers and brakes to stop them in case there are very high wind speeds

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

the gennie gets too hot mate

[@OrenBlau]

have you heard of Schwungsystem centrifugal gear? " Free Energy Mechanism (final year project) " by yogesh verma on youtube. looks like a planetary gear with A-Symmetric wights on the planetary gears. personally i think every open system that gets its force from an almost endless reservoir, can be considers free. dont know about this thing thou (tapping angular momentum perhaps?)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

i think it is based on Constantinescu CVT isn't it? see video 2086 mate

[@OrenBlau]

very interesting thank you, torque converter for sure @@ThinkingandTinkering

[@pompeymonkey3271]

Marvellous video. Thanks for making it. What about taking it a step further with generators that utilise all the available torque and turn it into increased current availability during stronger winds? Or is that already a thing? :)

[@sunindragupta9236]

where does the excess energy go?

[@ZappyOh]

Noise, heat, vibration and wear.

[@DamnedMonkey]

If I understand what you're asking correctly, the higher speed, yet lower Torque, Angular Velocity at the input is being converted to lower speed, yet higher Torque, Angular Velocity at the output, with of course, as @ZappyOh mentioned, some mechanical losses within the gear train. Just momentarily, and theoretically, assuming no gear train losses, the Power in equals the Power out.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

what excess energy?

[@WimsMill]

I think you will have to rethink the wind turbine system. If you put more energy in the blades, it needs to go somewhere. If it is not the generator, it is somewhere else. Also there is something called the tip speed ratio (TSR) which is more important. You cannot let the blades run faster then what they are built for. If you would try to run them at a lower speed(in lower winds), they will be under powered and stall.

[@bibliotek42]

I only understood about half of the mechanics involved, but it is as you say fantastisk. To create ac at 50 Hz you need a constant rotation, which you have created here. Is it affected by a variable load on the output?

[@pq9727]

Mmm, very interesting mechanism, I am sure there is an application for it somewhere, and understand where your coming from, but wouldn't it be better to alter the pitch of the blades to control the speed of the turbine blades. Or am I missing something here ? PS what happens to the input shaft if you drive the output shaft