22 Nosler Overview: Cartridge, Ballistics, AR-15 Conversion

[@gregrichardson2528]

Fairly new to rifles and never really researched what made these three cartridges different. Thanks for the great explanation.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Glad it was helpful Greg!

[@N556ND]

At this point in time I’m more excited to see where 224 Valkyrie goes. Especially after all of the trouble Johnny has been having.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Sounds interesting.

[@N556ND]

gavintoobe Another thought is how will 22 Nosler compare to 25-45 Sharps and then compare that to the 224 Valkyrie. Seems like the 25-45 isn’t as hot.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Different animals- 25-45 Sharps is 25 caliber and is all about knock down power. 224 Valkyrie is about high-bc bullets and velocity- a long-range game kind of thing.

[@-John-Doe-]

On paper it looks like it’s fine. I personally am not interested at all in blasting more and more powder in a long range dick measuring contest when we’re talking about carbines. It’s one thing if you can take the same capacity of powder burn as 5.56, which is already excessive. I have no interest in putting more powder into the ar15.

[@azdean6897]

Best info on the 22 Nosler I have seen! Thanks!

[@riflemanjim]

You should check out Johnny reloaders' page and his experience with reloading this round. Let's just say he didn't have good luck. Now there's the 224 valkerie..

[@Mrgunsngear]

great video

[@petersouthernboy6327]

In the spirit of the OP’s title and subject matter regarding AR-15 frame conversion, I think it best to confine discussion to calibers proven and commercially available in the AR-15 frame. Nosler supports the 22 Nosler. Federal supports the 224 Valkyrie. Calibers like 22-250 and 6.5 CM are not applicable to the AR-15 form factor.

[@Ultimatereloader]

That's right. :) Armchair ballisticians like to speculate with no first-hand experience, and by jumping to conclusions without evaluating all of the data/factors.

[@chadsangster252]

Great video thanks for the info I just got done putting a AR15 22 nosler together!

[@Ultimatereloader]

Awesome, had a chance to shoot it yet???

[@chadsangster252]

gavintoobe yes sir got about 40 rounds through her! So far pretty happy maybe one day we will get to see you at ncw gun club.

[@OzarkSpirit]

Show us your spent brass. How are you reloading it?

[@ryanmace8804]

That is one beautiful AR15! 😍

[@JOHNJCLARK]

I have a DTWS Arms 22 Nosler AR. Great caliber it feels like mac set your hair on fire speed. I agree that 22 250 is great in a bolt rifle.

[@brettrowlett9181]

I am curious about this cartridge. Someone else on KZbin had brass issues with 22 Nosler. I am would be interested in seeing if those issues generalize out to other loaders.

[@jacobdeem8187]

Did it chew up brass?

[@mikebarile30]

Love my 220 swift

[@crazyaz9468]

Maybe this question has already been asked and I am asking it at 7:00 into the video when you start talking about what is needed for this swap. Does the gas block or buffer need to be changed as well. I would think that with the added pressures, that there would be some over gassing issues. Maybe that is resolved with the shorter barrel though.

[@RideAdventurous]

I had a variety of rifles and frequently traded for different chamberings. In the last 20 years I’ve had everything from a 450 marlin (both pistol and rifle) to 221 fireball (a really fun pistol but it lacked a purpose , too slow on target for coyotes and was ballistically equivalent to the 223 in a awkward platform). And everything in between. I traded all of it away and have gone to three rifles. I own an AR with a 7.62x39 upper. A Ruger 77/357 and a M1A. My go to gun is the M1A. It can do everything that I need to do. All of this new stuff is just trying to make up for a lack of skill on the part of the shooter.

[@seanmatthews2082]

Sick fohawk bro

[@jamesmooney5348]

Hahaha

[@contactericjones]

Datum, Canonical... Love it!

[@fisoxlt]

Was your brass being trashed after one firing? That's what I've been seeing and hearing about 22 nosler. Johnnys Reloading Bench even started a series on reloading it but after 4 videos decided it wasn't worth it because the brass was getting beat up pretty bad after the first firing.

[@ryanmace8804]

Too much pressure ruining the cases?

[@Jolsen002]

224 Val vs 300 BO vs 223rem vs 22 Nosler?

[@GunFunZS]

IMO Get the BO, because it works well with nearly free cast projectiles. Action shoot the hell out of it. If you want precision, just use any flavor of adequate jacketed ammo based of a 308 case with a 6-7mm projectile.

[@ryanmace8804]

@wimmisky 300 Blackout was designed specifically for suppressor use right? 🤔

[@sqc281]

Thanks Gavin. I wonder how the 22 nosler would go up against 6.5grendel. Not the same velocity but really good BCs.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Kind of hard to compare a 6.5mm to a 22 cal. The Grendel is very cool however- but a different animal.

[@notrapmusic9883]

I think grendel still wins . grendel is nearly on the same level as 762nato . and its 26 or 28 caliber I believe . 22 will have better velocity. But grendel is very well balanced with velocity and energy . so grendel will win and with just a 16 inch barrel . Grendel isn't nuttered with barrel length like 22 calibers are

[@derekcooper7400]

Can the brass issues be helped with an adjustable gas block?

[@thompsonjerry3412]

if you are interested in what can go wrong with 22 nosler, check out Johnnies reloading bench.

[@sqc281]

Thompson Jerry yeah man. I felt his frustration. What was it like 4 powders 2x barrels and like 3x different sessions. Brass was destroyed and groups were sub par.

[@OzarkSpirit]

Thompson Jerry agreed, JRB found it to be trash for the reloader.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

I’ve had 3 custom builders tell me that their customers confirm 22 Nosler destroys brass unless you load it at the very light end of the power spectrum - which defeats the purpose. All 3 were very enthusiastic about 224 Valkyrie and the tougher Federal brass. That 90 gr SMK in 224 has a BC of .563 which is downright gaudy.

[@mikecarlson6083]

Have u seen the 22 grendel?

[@russellsmith2196]

The 223 Rem and 5.56 nato case are the same --------- The difference is in the throat of the barrel

[@Oldf0x]

Good luck with that!

[@geoffpickford1829]

Have not watched all the video yet but what about barrel life ?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Between .223 Remington and 22-250

[@reloadingwithjohnnyray-bac8775]

Great video brother.

[@lukelachmann9570]

Did anyone catch what kind of powder he's reloading with?

[@beecoo66]

Yes, what about h\the .224 Valkyrie.........

[@Baltic_Hammer6162]

One thing I learned over the years with new calibers....wait and see. Even in the last 10 or 20 years how many new cartridges came out and died a quick death? Some like the .30 RAR from Rem for their AR's had really good potential but a pathetic company killed it.

[@georgeaplustill6018]

What about the two to three wssm how's that compared to the 22 Nosler

[@rafaellastracom6411]

How does barrel wear/erosion of the 22 Nosler compare to the 223?

[@dillonhall6062]

"Consistency is the Key to accuracy" - Ryan Cleckner

[@valuedhumanoid6574]

I knew a rancher who used a 222 Swift. At that time, I believe it was the highest velocity cartridge out there. Something like 4000 fps. It would wear out a barrel in a dozen shots, but it was a smoker for sure.

[@duanehenicke6602]

220 swift.

[@DRANKWORLD]

Do you need to change anything about t

[@amym828]

I guess 224 Valkyrie is just too new to be mentioned in this video. Watch out 22 Nosler, 224 Valkyrie is coming your way.

[@sqc281]

Amy M same thing I was thinking. I wonder how these two are going to make out. People are really into pushing the 22s. To me the 22-250 literally has the crown and will for a bit.

[@colsoncustoms8994]

How heavy can you load 22-250 though? I usually only see 50ish grain loadings for it, with 64 grains being the highest I found on a quick ammo seek search just now. 90-100 grain 224 Valkyrie is a whole different kind of round.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Just reviewed the load tables - No way you can load pills in 22-250 with BC’s remotely close as the 90gr SMK. 224 Valkyrie stays supersonic for 1300 yards !

[@petersouthernboy6327]

wimmisky - you can’t use 22-250 or 6.5 CM in this particular discussion - neither are applicable to the AR-15 frame.

[@JOHNJCLARK]

Amy M do you have a Valkrike I'm thinking about getting one next year.

[@Dressagevids]

I like the look of this.......what is the twist rate on your 70 grain

[@Ultimatereloader]

1:8 !

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Just had three custom builders tell me NOT to bother with 22 Nosler if I reload - brass damage was rampant unless I loaded at the extreme light side of the spectrum which defeats the purpose of the cartridge entirely. Nuff Said !

[@Ultimatereloader]

Peter Southern Boy Wait for my next video- I reloaded a 22 Nosler case 10 times and the case was still usable 97% max load with H380 powder.

[@corytebay3742]

gavintoobe How are you getting your case heads clean? I called Midway this past week and was told that both uppers offered have case head damage complaints. I have the AR Stoner upper, with an after market tunable gas block. It didn't seem to help too much. Love this cartridge, and the upper is my favourite. My typical procedure is to file each head and run them over a buffing wheel to make them acceptable reloading candidates.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Cory Tebay - you can’t; there are two inherent design problems impossible to overcome: 1. Soft Nosler brass, and 2. The AR extractor design is incompatible with a rebated rim. It’s only a non-issue if you keep buying new Ammo and don’t reload.

[@corytebay3742]

Peter Southern Boy Thank you for your reply. I really do like my rifle is the problem (obviously I guess, changing gas blocks and reworking nearly every piece), so is there any out? I case anneal - is there any "opposite " that would make the heads harder? Without making them brittle? This rifle is consistently sub 1/2 MOA past 500 yards. Hence my attachment!

[@Liemciemdk89]

Brass sucks thats my review with first gen brass and the newer designed brass. Case has potential wait until another supplier of brass comes down the road.

[@colsoncustoms8994]

Pretty sure 224 Valkyrie has already made this round obsolete.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Colson Customs - I’ve had 3 custom builders tell me the same. If WOA and CLE point me to the 224 Valkyrie I’m inclined to listen. That 90 gr SMK has a G1 BC of .563. !

[@colsoncustoms8994]

It's impressive for sure. I keep trying to calculate load data for things like the 308 or 6.5 Grendel that will stay supersonic out past that 90 grain smk but i'm not having much luck so far. You can do it with 308 and some of the super high bc 185-200 grain bullets, but I'm pretty sure COL would be too long for most ar 10 /lr308 mags.

[@csteelerx1]

reloading 22 Nosler is a nightmare

[@Ultimatereloader]

Can you elaborate? The only issues I've had is with too hot of a load that I loaded...

[@csteelerx1]

brass getting torn up ot the Pont you cant reload it agene

[@TrevorSpencer]

the moment 224 Valkyrie came out it made 22 Nosler pointless

[@GunFunZS]

That way is what exactly?

[@TrevorSpencer]

GunFun ZS in basically every metric that matters....

[@GunFunZS]

I was replying to wimmisky, asking what he is saying Remington's design processes was. I'm aware of the theoretical advantages of 224 v, and still don't feel the need for either, but don't mind if other people want to buy niche cartridges.

[@GunFunZS]

Thanks for the explanation. I am vaguely aware of the mid 1960s magnum one upmanship craze, but I didn't know Rem was considered a poor performer there. 7mm rem mag has at least held up as a popular and useful cartridge. For me, you have to make a very compelling case to adopt a cartridge with oddball brass that can't be formed from something common in one or so steps. 300 BO is the only one that's won me over to be worth the hassle. I know I won't end up with an orphan gun there. I'd be tempted to get other guns on the cheap because they've already become orphans, but only if the brass can be made from something else, or if they are historically interesting.

[@jonlockhart8436]

All points already mentioned but as Johnny's Reloading Bench and others have shown the rims get tore up on extraction meaning you can't reload those cases. The damage appears to be do to the rebates rim. Forums people have been using Hagar brass in 22 Nosler dies with an SPC bolt, but with Valkyrie coming out that basically is the commercial version of those modified Nosler cases with Hagar.

[@mattvanourney128]

Is this sponsored content?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Matt- when I do in-depth content, I work directly with manufacturers. Nosler is one of those companies- they have provided a loaner upper and some components for the purposes of writing this article. More information about how I work with partners here: ultimatereloader.com/about/

[@mattvanourney128]

Thanks for the response. Did you see any issues with brass being damaged after initial use.

[@Ultimatereloader]

I did have some case head swipe and pressure signs as noted in the PRS blog posts/videos- I'll be addressing all that in the reloading follow-up. I have "2nd batch" brass- when not pushed too far has done fine so far.

[@Ultimatereloader]

With H-380 instead of Varget, brass has looked great, even in sweltering heat (where I had pressure issues).

[@stfuplsok]

sponsored by Stephen Paddock.

[@poorfatman5317]

What about 220 Swift it will push a 55 grain bullet 4100 feet per second

[@holdernewtshesrearin5471]

why not also compare some of the heavyweight .223 rem loads that are designed for long range shooting? the 68, 69 and in particular the 75 and 77 gr loads are much more capable at ranges beyond 400 yds. and the 80 gr loads may be even better for the hand loader. the 55 gr loads all peter out by 600 yds max and ballistically are far less capable than the much longer loads. i know they tend to eat into case capacity but regardless if its long range you need the heavyweight .22s are the only way to go.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Good call- I like that concept!

[@petersouthernboy6327]

If Compass Lake Engineering and Odin Works tells me “ go 224 Valkyrie “ I’m inclined to listen. If I can push a 90 gr SMK out to 1300 yards remaining supersonic it truly makes 22 Nosler pointless. I can’t go beyond 77 gr and keep COL mag length in 223 or 22 Nosler.

[@Ultimatereloader]

224 Valkyrie sounds interesting- but it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison- the 22 Nosler is about minimal rifle changes (Ex: same bolt as for .223 / 5.56) and increased 22 cal velocities.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

gavintoobe - had a really interesting discussion with White Oak Armory about this just Friday. ( they thought the 224 Valkyrie was a better choice also btw ). The only additional step change from 22 Nosler to 224 Valkyrie is a 6.8 bolt. Totally worth it - I get to stay with the 22 caliber, ditch that horrid rebated rim, but most importantly I get a shorter case with a longer neck - I can load the 90 grain Sierra Match King 🤴 with a G1 of .563 and use the AR 15 6.8 magazines !!! I cannot do that with a 22 Nosler - I’m limited to the 77 gr SMK and a G1 of .372 in a 6.8 magazine. I get ballistics close to Creedmoor out of an AR-15 frame. Hey, I have change barrels and mags either way but I am staying within caliber but with a bullet that stays supersonic out to 1300 yards. Love it.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Sounds interesting for sure- perhaps I'll do some content on it this year!

[@johnnyroyal3299]

22 250 can reach 1860 yards

[@riflemanjim]

Look up 6mm ar and 224 ar...

[@missey316]

Still not as fast as the 220 swift nor the 223 wssm

[@shermdog6969]

Make a great Antelope rifle.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Or 25-45 Sharps!

[@abelflores9642]

556 brass is not thicker than 223 brass.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Yes it is, did you see the picture in the article? They are the same on the exterior, and 5.56 has less case capacity, that's because the brass is thicker. That's also how the 5.56 can handle more pressure than .223 brass.

[@williamabrahams1468]

gavintoobe Brass thickness varies by brand. Some brands of 223 are thicker than LC 556 and some are thinner. Look at more cut aways and you will see.

[@abelflores9642]

gavintoobe I have cut down a bunch of different brands of 223 and 556 and some of the thickest brass has been in 223. I'm not trying to be a turd but look it up, you'll be surprised.

[@andyeighttre]

It would be worth it if the pressure was 62-63k. 224 Valkyrie or 22-204 Ruger are much better options. Even a 223 ai is a better option.

[@sandych33ks1]

Why create any new rounds. He said it 22-250 is the best. Just build a quality AR platform gun. If they did it in a quality gun company , they would sell easily.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Apples to oranges- 22-250 is killer if you have a bolt gun (or AR-10 if you can find one). This is all about the AR-15 form-factor with minimal changes and $$$ to convert.

[@michaelandersen5453]

I understand the slight velocity difference at 600 yrds but at a thousand they are almost all alike. check out Mark and Sam's Long Rang shooting.First they are incredible shooters with all calibers. But with there .223 bolt they hit 1704 yards with it. More than once. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWfNaYJjp6iZe8U

[@Ultimatereloader]

22 Nosler may not be for everyone, but it sure helped out my ballistics for the PRS match I was competing in...

[@KB-kw8ni]

Barrel killer

[@Ultimatereloader]

Any fast round will burn barrels. You have to choose from a bunch of trade-offs. :)

[@juniorimac]

Needs to be said over and over. The 22 Nosler is dead. The .224 Valkyrie killed it

[@Ultimatereloader]

I'd be curious to hear your personal experiences with both...

[@hickoryridgefarmer]

If a 223 doesn’t cut it step up to the 243. Just quit with the fad wildcat crap

[@kylewalton7005]

obviously you are sponsored by nosler. we get it they pay the bills. my 77g sierra tmks out of 16” barrel are doing 2700fps and still doing 1100fps at 1000yards thanks to a .420 bc. forget about those crapy noslers #longlivetheking.

[@stroudads]

What’s wrong with your hair?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Don't be a troll. We're here to talk about guns.

[@bustabass9025]

@@Ultimatereloader Trolls gotta do what a troll gotta do...ignore 'em I say. 😶

[@jamesmooney5348]

@@Ultimatereloader It was a fair question

[@jamesmooney5348]

That was a fair question..... Hahahaha....