22 Tuesday: Ballistic Gel Test, 29 gr Federal Punch v 32 gr CCI Stinger v 37 gr Winchester Silvertip

22 Tuesday Ballistic Gel Shooting Test: 29 grain Federal Punch v 32 grain CCI Stinger v 37 grain Winchester Silvertip featuring the 8-shot Smith & Wesson 317 revolver with its 3" barrel

[@frankbrowning328]

Great test! Interesting results. Who would have thought that the Punch, in such a short barrel, could actually penetrate more than 15'' of gel + the kitty litter jug filled with water? Amazing. The Stinger in the short barrel seems to be a perfect small game round.

[@DasDutchman56]

I'm glad I have Federal Punch & CCI Mini Mag for deterent purposes !

[@willyjilly9684]

Hope everyone had a wonderful day today and a lovely evening 💙

[@dangerman007]

The Silvertip would be my pick: The wound track from what I could see looked pretty nasty and almost 12 inches penetration is excellent.

[@coralinealgae]

Agreed

[@fondolon]

Agreed. I want all energy left in the target. That's why the stingers didn't preform that poorly. I .22 lr passing through the target is not optimal IMO.

[@johnpower8356]

You're calling it under penetration but that's because it expends ALL of it energy really early which is effective for major damage whereas a punch could go through with little destruction so of course it comes down to location of the hit, stingers are excellent for small game, they both do a specific task

[@GeographyCzar]

True.

[@trejamal5968]

finally a stinger vs punch vs silvertips video

[@richliu02]

Thanks for the testing. I would prefer the stinger for the impressive expension which should create more damage.

[@Charsept]

In my LCP 2 22lr, I can feel a big difference going from bulk ammo to punch. The sound, recoil and fireball from the muzzle. Heck of a hot load.

[@GeographyCzar]

If you can get them to feed reliably... neither of my autos like the Punch, but the revolver really drives them deep!

[@irish60plus]

They run fine through my Walther P22. Very accurate also. @@GeographyCzar

[@ShastaBean]

I found those Stingers to be pretty impressive to open up that much and still get 7". I know the whole 12-18" thingy deems 7" to be inadequate...but depending on the size of a threat, 7" might really do a number depending on shot placement. If I place a ruler to myself at a profile, 7" is going to go beyond the middle of my mid-section provided there's no bone being hit. I'm glad you did finally note its size and put the caliper to it.

[@fancyhitchpin8675]

The gel block isn't meant to perfectly mimic the human body, it's meant to be a consistent test medium that is an analog for real world performance. The 12-18 rule is based on how the gel tests translate to the real world. Rounds that consistently reach 12"+ have consistently performed well in real world shootings. When we're talking about the energy .22lr produces out of a handgun barrel, maximizing penetration is all that really matters.

[@ShastaBean]

@@fancyhitchpin8675 Yeah, and it's just one of many possible standards. And yes sure, it's become the one that everyone puts comparisons against these days, but has a ton of flaws when it comes to consistently measuring performance. Depending on what the target's form is & composition & shot-placement, even with .22LR, expansion could arguably be WAY more important than penetration. Poking .22" holes might have better outcome in some situations, but having it expand and travel 7" might be much more damaging in others. There's no definitive either/or when it comes to penetration vs expansion.

[@fancyhitchpin8675]

@@ShastaBean There may be a better standard IDK, but in the case of sub 100ft/lbs energy, prioritizing penetration over expansion will absolutely give the best probability of useful damage.

[@ShastaBean]

​@@fancyhitchpin8675 the word "absolutely" is absurd. For example, if a person is interested in selling pelts...does having a through-and-through exit hole in the fur, and the animal still trying to bite you because of almost no tissue damage give you "best probability of useful damage"? I can think of lots of examples where expansion, even if only 7" into gel, is way more desirable than whistling a 40gr projectile out of a 5.7x28, 22WMR or .22LR straight through a target. For that same 40gr projectile, you are talking about 3300 fps and still under 1000 ft-lbs...That standard you are suggesting sounds completely made-up and frankly, quite fictional.

[@fancyhitchpin8675]

@@ShastaBean My absolutely statement was referring to general self defense, so including, if not primarily, human threats. If we are talking exclusively about threats that are small enough to stomp on, then the stingers will be adequate, if not superior.

[@artfulalias3984]

Flat point of carefully selected meplat, sectional density, and velocity for the win. Its an old formula because it works.

[@FargoFX]

Well said

[@ftdefiance1]

I wonder if the Velocitor wouldn't be a a better choices then the Stinger

[@MegaAppleshit]

It would be. Rifle or pistol, velocitors were the go to for me if I was going to use a 22lr for carry or home defense until the Punch came out. I still prefer the Velocitors even over the punch if I were to use a 22lr rifle for home defense.

[@michaelheiss4456]

.22 Stinger dumped all it's energy in 7 inches made the biggest hole , I think it's the winner ! You didn't try the CCI mini mags they are solid point ammo too ! IMO

[@barrnyroyal1440]

I agree. That in my mind would make a person stop being mean and make him stop. My idea is not to kill someone but to stop them from wanting to go further

[@terrywadsworth5645]

7 inches gel penetration is insufficient. If bone is struck, vital organs will likely be unscathed. Since we Americans are too well fed, the Stinger will probably contend with several inches of fat. So the Punch is looking good. MiniMags solids are also a good choice as they are very reliable due to quality priming compound and properly crimped bullets. If Remington priming wasn't so crappy, the truncated cone solid Vipers would be great. If you can find them,CCI Velocitor are reliable penetrators.Subcompact autos are not reliable with. 22lr. 8 to10 shot revolvers are available. If recoil is problematic,one might consider a snubby loaded with .38spl wadcutters.

[@buddysumner4022]

You all do not understand ballistics one bit,

[@macdaddy8483]

Penetration is most important

[@rwdchannel2901]

22Plinkster shot a CCI .22LR Stinger out of a rifle and it went through both sides of a titanium golf club. Your video just shows it's not that great out of a handgun. I tried them out of a Walther P22 and got a lot of flash along with powder burns around the side of the plastic. The CCI Stinger needs a longer barrel to perform well. The punch is much better through a shorter barrel.

[@YellowHammer26]

Thanks Dave…….I’ve seen several videos on the punch and they seem to always penetrate pretty deep. As for the stinger it’s a good varmint round which is what it’s marketed for but not so much for self defense. 👍👍

[@incredible3214]

Nice review. Thank you. Regardless of what anyone prefers the ballistics info is invaluable.

[@gunmonkey6545]

I don’t know about your conclusion. I could see that expanded Stinger from space. 😀 I didn’t think it would fully expand out of a 3” barrel.

[@noahcount7132]

Interesting, enlightening head-to-head comparison, Dave. Thanks!

[@duenodenada2147]

Well in the other hand sylver tip its the best choices because it opens makes cavitie and penetrates as well

[@jeffrocx8599]

The stinger will still “F” up something. KelTec P17 has 3.8” length barrel with no gas loss. That will make a huge difference in all 3 rounds. I wouldn’t want to be shot with any of these.

[@DCmey]

I load Federal Punch and CCI Stinger back to back in magazines

[@KD-lb9bg]

Very nice, thanks for another fine 22 Tuesday.

[@jersey1470]

I bet the Cci did the most damage cause it expanded the punch is no different then a 40 grain solid

[@valeriyGennadyevich]

What's a point of that super deep penetration? Laser vs grande.... what would do more organ damage? With 5 rounds from silver tip in a stomach there will be mashed potato instead of intestines vs 5 tiny holes through from federal punch. It's like 9mm Civil deffense vs 9mm fmj.... one would tear organs inside like micro grenade and dump all the energy in the body vs other will go through with a moderate hole The only I see super penertation is better than segmented/ expanding round is when shooting straight into the forehead

[@Followme556]

If it's a 22 LR and I need it for serious use of any kind whatsoever it will be loaded with velocitors.

[@BobcatBart]

Maybe I missed the stated purpose of this test, but how did the Stinger's "severely under-penetrate"? They're designed for squirrels and other varmints, so they penetrated exactly as they should. With the Punch being designed to penetrate humans, it probably did too good of a job.

[@bigracer3867]

That punch is some expensive ammo in my neck of the woods.

[@sunnydelight4991]

10.99 worth it it is so reliable in a semi auto

[@TheStevopb]

Both buds and midway USA have it in stock 8.99 a box free shipping with $50+ (offer66666) from midway.

[@Crazypitbull16]

Only 9 bucks for box of 50 in Cali and preforms pretty damn good

[@r1sabotage]

$15 here in NYC

[@OKFrax-ys2op]

Work some overtime 🤔

[@robertkubrick3738]

I have no problem with Stingers from a 1.7/8 barrel because they aren't going to expand anyway.

[@ClashOfTheTITIN244]

What was the range of test in yards for the gel test, THX!

[@bobbarker5884]

Great video sir!!

[@Ammosexual69]

I carry federal punch in my ruger lcp2 .22lr. The reason why punch works so much better as a defensive round is because of the wide/flat nose design (truncated cone). It cuts through tissue/barriers/obstacles much better than a round nose or hollowpoint design. Federal is doing some fantastic things in the rimfire world right now. Before covid hit, Lehigh defense was formulating a .22lr extreme penetrator load and had even started testing it. When covid hit and manufacturing took a nose dive they scrapped the project. I honestly believe if they ever resume it and release an extreme penetrator round it might be the ONLY round that can hold a flame to federal punch. I hunt hogs with .22lr and specifically use federal punch. I also hunt with .22mag and carry a .22mag regularly and federal punch in .22mag is the only expanding round I trust.

[@GeographyCzar]

The new Federal Punch in 22 Mag is the best rimfire round for defensive handguns. The 22 lr isn't far behind.

[@2heavyb517]

my .22 cents worth., I'll take the stinger expansion. hits in the face and groin of a human will be effective. especially 15 or so rounds dumped in few seconds.

[@kirkhatleyjr5701]

Try the aguila interceptor fmj instead of the stinger much better all around round than the stinger but the stinger shines in its own ways just not self defense ways

[@mikem.2078]

Could you do this same test, but with wood, several 2 x 4s? Fed punch, stingers, and maybe a standard mini mag or Aguila.

[@CustomJeep]

Winchester silvertips are the least accurate ammo of anything Ive tested in all my rimfires. Sometimes I get some ridiculous extreme flyers.

[@goosee7776]

So far its most' effective 22 lr round fedral Punch is humm' , surpassed stinger hp so .. humm' the difference is s little but i didn't know' that ammo exzisted punch short solid nose humm' in 29 grains would do 1550 out my rifle 1600 18 in barrol b-a Savage...

[@joi8674]

I fired off these last weekend. If I was forced for home defense I've take stingers. At Range they are superior, they won't cause damage to the wall, they mushroom extremely well and they never mis-fire.

[@GeographyCzar]

Yes, if you're comfortable with 7 to 10 inches of penetration, Stingers are the only game in town as far as 22 LR are concerned. They're spectacular. A lot of people shoot CCI Velociters assuming they won't expand and thus penetrate deeper, but they are hollow points too, so I'm not as confident with them. Stingers perform pretty consistently, and so do the new Federal Punch (zero expansion by design). My favorites are the Stingers and the Punch for .22 pistol. It all depends on which application you're looking for. Velociters are for rifles.

[@joi8674]

@@GeographyCzar My issue with the punch is out of 75 rounds I had 7 misfire. Stingers I had 1 out of 100 and I believe that was only because I put 10 rounds of sub-sonic rounds prior that my gun did not like. I can't get my hands on cci velocitor as they are sold out everywhere. At 15 yards, out of 50 stinger rounds I had 43 on target. At 15 yards with the punch I had 22 out of 50.

[@GeographyCzar]

@@joi8674 ouch! 7? dang. Well, thanks for the range report. That's a terrible percentage for Federal Punch!

[@joi8674]

@@GeographyCzar I reallllly wanted to like the ammo. All the forums and youtube videos have crowned punch the best home-defense ammo. With that said I was firing out of a Beretta M9_22LR that I've seen some people say is a very picky gun on the ammo it likes. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

[@allenw969]

@GeographyCzar I use a Walther PPQ 22. I have about 120 rounds of Federal Punch .22lr through it, with no malfunctions of any kind.

[@charleshuyck6641]

A pistol barrel unless 5 inches wont even deform a 22 hollowpoint. Try the CCI Velocitor.

[@lonewolf286]

I was want to know have you ever tested the 22 long rifle in a Winchester vomit load another $23 of box for 50 rounds. I was just wondering if there's any good

[@Steve-og4ii]

I would love to have the punch in 22 Magnum, but can never find any.

[@unintendedpurposes]

A good self defense round makes a large wound and stays in the target. Over penetration is bad because anything behind the target, will be hit by the round. Thats bad. Federal ballistics testing states 12 inches of penetration is ideal. For a self defense round in an urban encounter. I dont have a hand in the race. I dont own nor have i used any of these rounds. Based on your testing, i would buy the Silvertip if i have to rely on a 22lr for a selfe defense round.

[@ronkonig630]

i agree

[@michaelshanahan4965]

I don’t buy 22lr if it’s slower than 1400 fps. I’ve never had a feed issue when using stuff that fast.

[@ronkonig630]

yes and in a bersa thunder 22 you need even more velocity

[@ronkonig630]

yes, and in mine too

[@bradclem6226]

Stingers is a hunting rd and the expansion is what u want. Iam sure u will reach the vitals on a human and with several rds fired it will stop the threat.☠️

[@BrokenBarBox]

29 grain short bullet in a long rifle case = the old .22 Long

[@GeographyCzar]

Well, the LR case is higher pressure I believe, but basically, yes.

[@DRAGONRIDER385]

👍

[@cuda4094]

Disagree Winchester wins. Excellent penetration plus fragmentation. Better for self-defense. Federal punch will go through too many walls in your 🏠

[@GeographyCzar]

Disagreement is welcomed here!

[@jasonste4lth614]

I mean, that Punch ammo just aint no f'ing about smh. Follow ups with Stinger rounds and ya got yourself a defense clip.

[@payup2023]

It's called a magazine.

[@erniewalden3050]

Stingers are for hunting med sized game and not home defence. Most people dont use 22 for home defence maby a little old lady that cant handle the recoil of a 38nor 380 hahahaha. Punch would be the worst 22 ammo you can get for hunting small game

[@GeographyCzar]

On small game, bullet diameter (initial as well as final expanded) is going to be gigantic relative to what it is on a human. The Stingers will absolutely destroy small game, I'm confident. Punch might not be as effective, although I think shot placement will be more relevant. In any case, most of the energy will be wasted with Punch as it is clearly designed to penetrate very deeply and there is no such depth to a squirrel or even most rabbit species. On Coyote, which I think of as "medium" game, either one should work ok out of a rifle. Not sure you could get within pistol range unless a sick, or very preoccupied animal (e.g., if the coyote was fighting with your dog).

[@mikepond8898]

@@GeographyCzar So true. A unfired 22lr bullet placed next to a rabbit's leg is like placing a unfired 30mm cannon bullet next to human's leg.

[@payup2023]

Defense

[@derekyates43]

Stinger won that your wrong

[@michaelsubi]

Punch is worthless for self defense in a pistol

[@mikem.2078]

Explain

[@SteveRogers370]

🤔🥸

[@charlesmarshall2697]

Federal Punch won't run in either of my LCP2s!

[@3Pillers]

👍