224 ‒ Dietary protein: amount needed, ideal timing, quality, and more | Don Layman, Ph.D.

[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:00 - Intro 0:00:08 - Don’s background: from growing up on a farm to studying nutritional biochemistry 0:04:39 - Don’s philosophy on nutrition, muscle, and metabolism 0:18:10 - The controversial relationship between saturated fat and atherosclerosis 0:26:30 - The basics of protein and amino acids 0:33:46 - Origin and limitations of the current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein intake 0:43:44 - Protein sources: determining quality, absorption rates, and how to track intake 0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids 0:57:35 - The vital role of ruminant animals in the production of quality protein 1:04:55 - The differing needs and impacts of dietary protein for a 16-year old compared to a 65-year old 1:12:50 - Consequences of protein deficiency in childhood 1:19:50 - Muscle protein synthesis: ideal timing, small meals vs. big meals, and more 1:27:51 - Protein needs of children 1:33:07 - How important is timing protein intake around training? 1:37:27 - The role of leucine in fatty acid oxidation by muscle 1:41:07 - High protein diets for fat loss: Results from Don’s clinical trials 1:55:24 - Influence of industry funding on nutrition studies 2:01:26 - Don’s thoughts on plant-based and synthetic “meats” 2:10:05 - Problems with epidemiological studies of dietary protein

[@precocioussceptic4967]

Can you pin this to the top of the comments?

[@majuscule8883]

You deserve a million subscribers before the end of this year. I don't understand why I get unsubscribed all the time. I subscribed many times already and I have to remember your name to avoid loosing your channel.

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

Wow. this is helpful 👍👍👍 Leucine activating mTor. Carbs activating too (through insulin I guess) 3.4g lysine (for protein synthesis) Low in plants 1g Methionine (for DNA RNA repair, synthesis of taurine, cysteine, glutathione) Low in Lentils Ruminants, cows. 60 grams plant protein into 100grams balances protein. 300g protein body needs daily 1.6 per kg body mass intake. worse synthesis efficiency with age Collagen turnover 100 days muscle protein 15-16days Muscle needs 50gram protein to respond with growth. Exercise is catabolic no growth then. But after with proteins leucine initiator 2 hours window after At night muscle is in catabolic state supplying organs which as liver still synthesise Stu Philips Doug Patton Jones Luke Van 20-60g protein window for muscle utilisation 100% for liver close to 50% protein dissolved before getting to blood 😲 except branch chained as leucine Leucine inhibits pyruvate from getting to mitochondria spares glucose, promotes glucose recycling, keeping in blood, inhibiting it's oxidation and promoting fat oxidation in mitochondria. Meals 30g 30 30 better than 10 20 60. first meal critical. Leucine activates mTor for 5 hours.

[@arallskiant9923]

it felt like "the religious realm" all along.... but when you were somewhat aware of it you still kindly (or blindly if one were less charitable) accepeted all his upcycler'cow lobbying bs. it also felt like given all the science (not only muscle fitness but also, health, zoonose, ecology etc) and/or philosophy pointing out to plant-based diet being superior some people will always be stuck at the tabbaco industry era... at least he still stated that the planet cannot run anymore animal protein (given all these are concentrated in the West and that the trophic level of human is 2.2, same as anchovy) and that health things are achievable as a non-carnist (ie. vegan). people I guess can still connect the dot to achieve a less obscurantist standpoint/behavior. A nonetheless somewhat interesting conversation if one weren't naive about the underlying yet obvious ideological defensive narrative...

[@riumudamc4686]

Please address the fact that the longest living people on the planet eat low protein diets. Icaria, Greece for example....

[@beachnap]

This is probably one of my favorite episodes you've done! I want to offer my own personal experience in case someone finds it helpful. 32 year old female, athletic my whole life, never been "overweight" in terms of BMI, but my weight has often fluctuated into the higher end of the normal range, mostly due to PCOS hormonal issues. At 30, I finally got my PCOS under control, lost a bit of weight and maintained that for 2 years. But this year I decided I was ready to finally lose those infamous "last 10lbs". I already eat healthy, natural, whole/unprocessed foods. I'm already lifting weights and running marathons. What to change? Calorie counting is very stressful and wasn't something I could maintain in past attempts, but I needed to find an easy way to ensure I wasn't overeating, while still being satiated and getting all the nutrition I need for my high exercise level. My doctor advised me exactly what Don states here. She convinced me to track only one metric: protein. As long as I hit a minimum of 100g of protein a day, and ideally closer to 120g, then the rest would likely fall into place. And she said another thing he did, which is to focus on getting the protein in every meal, split into 3-4 meals, starting with a good breakfast. I consumed most of the 100g of protein from meats, fish, eggs, dairy, and only used whey protein powder to top off if I wanted to reach 120g on hard training days. I still ate plenty of vegetables, legumes, seeds and some whole grain, but didn't even count the protein in some veg sources. In following this plan, I quickly realized a few things - how previously I was falling short of that goal ( I thought I ate plenty of protein, but upon tracking discovered I didn't, especially with breakfast). I also realized how in eating all of this protein, I was very satisfied, had way more energy, and also didn't negatively impact my hormones or metabolism. Most importantly, I was consuming overall less calories. Frankly, it's just really hard to overeat when your meal is rich in protein. In the end, I was able to finally lose those last pounds without tracking calories or feeling deprived or low energy. Such a big win and something that is not a quick fix diet but a way of eating I can maintain for the rest of my life. I strongly urge others to give this method a try.

[@pspence1963]

Can you be more specific about what you actually ate in a day. Very interested.

[@erastvandoren]

Bullshit, PCOS is hyperactivation of the theca-cells by insulin because of insulin resistance. Can be cured by a very low-fat diet.

[@Od.3056]

Did so much proteïne not effect your stool?

[@shelchicago8997]

Thank you for sharing! Very helpful info!!!

[@dossegundos7145]

@@pspence1963 she said it. Eggs, meat, fish mostly animal protein and way protein in multiple meals 5 to 6 meals, over 50 grams of protein for breakfast and 30 to 40 grams of protein per meal to get about 80 to 120 grams total per day

[@bobmciver6437]

Listened to maybe 2 dozen interviews with Don Layman over the last few years and the clarity of information in this podcast is in a league of its own.Every minute well spent...if only all interviews with researchers were this enlightening on the internet.

[@erastvandoren]

What? This was nothing but misinformation.

[@dannnyjos]

@@erastvandoren Explain....

[@greengraybear7925]

Mostly misinformation, from a guy who has made a career out of shilling for the egg and meat industry. Longevity research and long-lived populations both show that limited protein when younger and moderate protein when older are optimum for longevity. Bodybuilders are not known for longevity and while I enjoy some of Peter's podcasts, he is dead wrong on nutrition and is dismissive about research, because it doesn't conform to his own bias. And then he calls those who disagree "religious..."

[@dannnyjos]

@@greengraybear7925 Interesting points, I'll look into those. I'm not sure I agree about your assessment on bodybuilders though. Is it the high protein they consume, or the dozens of chemicals they put into their bodies?

[@deanberkowitz5376]

@GreenGrayBear They discussed exactly that when discussing lifespan vs healthspan, no? Lower protein may extend longevity, but it reduces reproductive health and health in general. That's a tradeoff you have to decide for yourself. Like yeah, your body doesn't turnover cells and age as quickly if you're not giving it the building blocks it needs to carry out its everyday functions, makes perfect sense. Which part is misinformation?

[@daroncresstwell1070]

Thank you for having experienced scientists talk about this stuff rather than fitness "influencers". Keep up the good work

[@Libertas_P77]

One really big concern I have with KZbin is the lack of qualification to actually give advice or post videos on these often highly complex, specialist areas. The algorithm only discriminates by popularity to view, not by accuracy or quality of the advice or information provided. That can be a concern with longevity related content, because it can lead to outright wrong conclusions being provided in clickbait format, over content such as this, which is long form and nuanced.

[@erastvandoren]

@@Libertas_P77 Exactly this episode was highly inaccurate and low quality.

[@markor8355]

@@erastvandoren please point us to a better quality information

[@erastvandoren]

@@markor8355 Episode 140 with Gerald Shulman, for example.

[@markor8355]

@@erastvandoren thank you erast

[@karenbeam3026]

As a RN and powerlifter (and nutrition nerd) I was so excited anticipating this podcast! I L-O-V-E this topic matter and it was delivered very eloquently and flawlessly. I can not get enough of this content. Thank you :) It is so nice to hear the items that nobody wants to discuss with me-riveting!!

[@Mohammed-r1b2s]

So what is he saying, are we eating enough or do we need to supplement?

[@jimthompson8052]

This was one of the most practically useful episodes I’ve heard yet. Fits into a very small area of a ven diagram of things I don’t know much about (nutrition), things that are practically important principles for daily life, and things that much of the common wisdom seems to be wrong about. Always love hearing someone who’s studied a topic for the majority of their life get asked basic practical questions about that topic, and then hearing them explain their answers. Incredibly helpful.

[@jeffrey4577]

The most useful of any except for episode about lipids or Omega 3 lol

[@erastvandoren]

One of the worst episodes. Doesn't beat Taubes, of course.

[@LenkaSaratoga]

Hello Jim, If you have a little time, and if it’s not a trouble, Could you please give couple of points, in terms of practice actionable takeaways. Please 🙏 Something like EAT THIS THIS MUCH THIS OFTEN

[@jmbii9545]

Ur small

[@AnnTsungMD]

Great it resonates 🙏 I cannot agree further! This is episode is very helpful and very practical.

[@paul_devos]

I listen to health and nutrition based podcasts every week. I've read the Muscle & Fitness since I was a young teen and grew up on a farm, played 3 sports competitively through high school... so protein ecosystems, nutrition, and fitness have been a big part of my life for decades. This is a top 10 all-time podcast I've ever listened to in terms of information. Wow.

[@DebraRN1195]

I love the comment at 1:48:50 regarding the carb eaters constantly talking about food, but not the protein eaters. Satiety!❤️

[@GaryHighFruit]

That's foolishness to use that as a knock against carbs. These unnatural low-carb diets simply make your body shut down appetite because it's not the diet the body wants. I've eaten a hgih-carb diet for 30 years, and I have a healthy appetite and eat large. I'm not fat, and recently got a clean bill of health. I eat the good carbs, not processed.

[@szghasem]

This is gold. Thank you so much Peter, for sharing this talk. It's jam packed with answers to my favorite questions, especially ones I've debated with others, like timing and amounts etc. You cannot imagine my enthusiasm listening to this entire show.

[@bryceherring946]

Love it, Don Laymen is the protein OG, good to see him on camera, we need to see him more on these popular podcasts and shows!

[@UsaqMadiq]

Him?

[@sharonp.6505]

I am a very fit and healthy 65 year old female (competitive cyclist) who became vegan 10 years ago. I was always careful to consume at least 50 to 60g of plant protein daily. I have always done resistance training. A few years ago I noticed that my once VERY muscular legs and glutes were slowly reducing in size. I dropped 2 pant sizes in this period at the same body weight. I finally had to change my diet to attempt to halt or even reverse the sarcopenia. It's only been 6 months of switching my protein sources to poultry, fish, eggs and non fat yogurt but I've put a full inch on my quads and a half inch on my calves. So even as a senior, it is totally possible to add muscle and avoid the tragedy of sarcopenia. I used to follow the vegan influencers (like Chef AJ, McDougal, Popper, Bernard, Esselstyn) and have always felt very uncomfortable with how sarcopenic they look. McDougal broke a hip in his shower last year and Chef AJ looks like a stiff wind would break her in half. I'm glad I stepped off that strict vegan religion. I plan to have a bone density scan this year to make sure I caught this problem in time.

[@m_m991]

50-60 g of protein per day is very little

[@stuffylamb3420]

Yeah vegans often look unhealthy. Says all there is to know about that diet.

[@Littlefurball7]

Wow! I’m so glad you commented! I am going off an 18 year vegan diet because as the years progressed; especially after age 40, I could not eat enough to ever be satiated. I also began having a chronic low level anxiety. I felt as though I could never stuff enough in; they kept up the same mantras of their echo chamber: ‘eat more starch, it’s the pleasure trap, keep a calm stable brain, it’s ok to eat large amounts’. The 1st 10 years I’d followed Dr Fuhrman to the letter and then began following the ones you’d mentioned. Anxiety was GONE within 48 hours of consuming 1G/ideal pound of body weight! Satiated with 1st meal and the entire last 8 days! I’ve already dropped about 7 or more pounds slowly over the 8 days, skin not nearly as dry, and random muscle discomforts, and rashes gone by day 6. So grateful to have stumbled upon this channel. So many people suffering and given the same response repeatedly! Hats off to those who strive on a vegan diet but we are all quite individualized.

[@Magar6]

How are the animals going, who were shot in the head? You''re concerned about a half inch on your calves, and an inch on your quads. You've taken everything from those innocent beings.

[@Magar6]

Have you seen The Game Changers yet?@@stuffylamb3420

[@clintpurches2765]

As an ex competitive drug free bodybuilder and a man of 55 I found this THE most helpful podcast I have listened to for a long time. Brilliant stuff.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Why? What was new here that you didn't already know if you were a competitive BB?

[@clintpurches2765]

@@Joseph1NJ optimal protein amounts, timing and sources, so much of we what do as competitors is passed down from coach to coach and or someone with something to sell with nothing more than trial and error or bias as it’s foundation. This was great science based information to help with the maintenance and increase in muscle mass to optimise health and health span to avoid sarcopenia. Being drug free I rely solely on hard training and nutrition so to have it so precisely laid out was extremely helpful going forward into my late 50’s and beyond.

[@oldroscoe2590]

The part early about mobility ... I put this on pause and that got me on the bike this morning. A few miles later, I'm back now and listening to the rest of the video. I'll be 74 in a couple of weeks. Animal protein is getting pretty expensive.

[@adem_gun]

I eat a bit less meat because of this but add a protein shake (brown rice) to get to my target macros.

[@barbarafairbanks4578]

@@adem_gun sorry... making up the difference in brown rice protein (?) doesn't fit at all with what Dr. Layman has said.

[@barbarafairbanks4578]

Old Roscoe - everything is getting expensive. Just sayin 😄 First...lifting weights is far better for mTOR (thus muscle protein synthesis forward), than is cardio, (i.e. your cycling). Press that bike over your head and do 3 sets of 6-10 squats with it 🤣 Second - high quality animal protein is, imo, not that cost prohibitive - to the point the average person's budget for their quality dietary protein intake would justify not cutting back on it (imo). High quality dietary protein is THAT important (especially in older adults), that our health status cannot afford to write it off, or cut back on it because. "It's gotten expensive.' (you've only said, 'its gotten expensive", so hopefully you aren't considering cutting back. I'd say, to that mindset... (again I realize you haven't said you are cutting back), but for those who might be thinking its too expensive to 'afford' - find a way! - there are lots of things in our life we can afford to cut back on (Starbucks, premium streaming services, entertainment, dining out, etc.) IMO, high quality protein (and resistance training)...neither of these are anything we should consider cutting back on. Just my 2 cents😃. (forgive the 'lecture' aspect of my 2 cents, please🙄)...not really directed at you, anyway. It's just that your post about the high expense of animal protein - prompted me to voice my opinion on the subject🤗

[@juliebutler8241]

@@adem_gun brown rice is high in arsenic, Dr. Berg says.

[@juliebutler8241]

@@barbarafairbanks4578 Agree very much with you. My health is built around grassfed and finished beef, lamb, seafood, although I search for 30 percent off conventional meat early mornings at my grocery. I get the right amount for my age, weight, and activity, and dont overindulge so it doesn't go to fat. I have cut alot of other products out. I'm low income, also living off savings since the poison dart prohibits my working as a nurse. Health first!

[@DuaneKSiebert]

Thank you for this. Grew up in DeKalb, IL (where corn is king) graduated from high school in '72. Had tons of friends who went to Illinois State and U of I. Thank you, Don (and Peter, as well) for teaching me at 67 years old what no one else has!

[@geopietro]

Hi Duane. I'm 70, grew up in Chicago and went to The U of I at Chicago Circle. I'm really proud of Don.

[@gloriasaliba3395]

Agreed!

[@DCampbell123456]

I didn’t know Don was an Illini!!

[@nickashton5242]

am 68 now going from one meal a day to two ,with first and last meal with protein increased thank you for this information

[@nightrunner14]

My knowledge about the relationship between protein and health has just been increased exponentially! Thanks for a GREAT episode!

[@toghrulmammadzada2090]

This is one of the most informative and practical sessions i have ever heard in any podcast or confrance. Thanks both to Peter and Don!

[@bellakrinkle9381]

Not enough protein...maybe why, after 12 hours, I'm ready for bed. These are all the topics I've been trying to learn about. I will definitely be increasing daily proteins. Much appreciated!

[@dana102083]

​@@bellakrinkle9381 have you read up on ketones and the brain? Your body may not be utilizing glucose effectively (may be insulin resistant, most people are) and worth shifting body into ketosis to be flexible to use both. This can highly impact your energy..this is coming from someone that is diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome..changed my life! Proteins and fats come together anyway ;)

[@JoJo-oc8oq]

I was hospitalized a year ago with diverticulitis, on antibiotics for a month, and I lost all my muscle, lost 16 lbs, went down to 109 from 126. I was working out 6X a week, in good shape at the time. It totally destroyed me, but I jumped right back in, took me a while, but I'm working out 6x week again. Still never gained it all back, just at 116 now. It's so hard.

[@howardjoffe8406]

This was so incredibly enlightening. I've always known that protein was important but having it explained in a more simple way puts things in perspective meal wise. I've been learning about nutrition for years now and I've not seen anyone say make sure you get your required protein first before anything else. It seems to be more of an aside such as eat a moderate amount of meat with lots of vegetables but now I feel it's the opposite and you don't need a lot of vegetables to get the required gut health effects.

[@cabolynn]

This is one of the most educational videos on protein that I have ever listened to. Thank you so much for interviewing Don.

[@Mountainhippiedude]

Wow. I believe this was the most beneficial podcast I've ever listened to. It is packed full of well researched information that has practical real world implications in our day to day lives. Well done!

[@allisonfalin8854]

I currently take in 134 grams protein daily (thank you Layne Norton Carbon Diet Coach app). Eggs, egg whites, fish, shellfish, beans, legumes and other animal based proteins daily. Don't really find it that hard once you start paying attention to it. It is a rare day that I have to take in protein powders. Enjoyed listening to this one immensely. My workouts have improved, my strength has improved and I am not getting hangry.

[@michellep5057]

What would you typically start your day with?

[@educational4434]

You know, something that frequently occurs to me is just how damn expensive daily protein intake is for achieving peak fitness really is. In other words, if one were just to think to yourself casually about what you think your protein needs would be post-workout and throughout the week you'd think you could just handle it with chicken breast and a few other sources which are of moderate expensiveness. Not so. Because realistically speaking, with the amount of protein people recommend for building muscle mass and peak fitness, you're looking at huge amounts of protein like 140 plus grams per day. No way is that being covered when you're just finishing up a workout with some chicken breast and a sandwich post-workout. And then if you get a wise-guy who says, "Well just buy protein powder", ok, see? Now we start getting pricey. Most of those gigantic tubosaurs of protein powder are only 7 to 14 days of powder and usually not enough in an average recommended serving to cover those daily needs without wiping out your supply in three or four days. I just don't get it. How are people achieving these massive numbers (to me) that are actually just the minimum numbers recommended without being inordinately wealthy, dedicating an inordinate amount of their weekly income to this venture, or eating protein-rich animal foods in giant amounts throughout the day?

[@allthingsbrazil]

dont forget 1 cup of peanuts a day! 40 grams of protein right there and take a shake if your calorie intake is too high with all that eating.

[@danielsanchez-qs9pf]

@@allthingsbrazil Who is this? Jimmy Carter?

[@GaryHighFruit]

You're thanking that MD fool for getting you to eat all that excess protein fat and toxins?

[@dineshverma9097]

Good morning Peter. Thank you for this episode and the wonderful guest Dr layman. What a incredible depth of knowledge. I got awnsrs to all my protein related questions depth I have had for years but never found with such clarity. I had no concept of so many of the facts presented by him. absolutely fantastic. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician and follow you regularly on your shows. This show will help me tremendously educate and treat my patients and improve my diet as well. GRATITUDE TO YOU AND DR LAYMAN.

[@AlexanderMoen]

I haven't watched this yet, but just wanted to comment how awesome it is that there's a Dr. Layman out there

[@patrickstarrfish4526]

I just wanted to comment how much a waste of space your super-intellectual comment is. I see your channel has a whopping big 504 subscribers, Moen. Mo money blues! I wonder what actually goes through the mind of someone to comment on a video they haven’t even watched! The very definition of a waste of oxygen.

[@Bijlsmaa]

This is just gold. Gold knowledge. A real conversation between experts, who click with good questions and complete answers and build a complete picture (EVEN for beginners like me). Turning 40 this year. Just worked myself out of very high stress. Learning a million thing (ultra processed, carbs, insuline, ketosis, fasting, fermeted foods, VO2 max....). Lost 15 kg. WAS in great shape, but couldn't figure out why my fitness was declining. I guess... now I do.

[@kardste8114]

Did any of the grant funders for Dr. Layman’s research allow him to focus on the relationship between animal protein and cancer growth? Did he ever ask the “Egg Board”, for example of which he headed.. if he could do a study on eggs affect on cancer? What about the affects After people have cancer? Correlation between animal protein and any affect on cancer? Positive or negative?

[@artkidolee2162]

Do vegetarians get cancers too?

[@kenster1682]

Yes but at lower rates of certain kinds

[@franciskeys9810]

This was a serious time commitment but worth it! I had to replay several sections along with copious googling to try to keep up with you guys. You've caused me to completely rethink my plans. I'm 59, about 6'1" and 200 pounds. I need to drop some fat, but I'm abandoning my plans to fast my way down. I think I'm just too old to risk loss of lean muscle. Instead, I'm going to focus on increasing activity, especially resistance training.

[@DonnaLHaney]

Cronometer calculates each amino acid found in your (mixed foods) diet. I don't think it accounts for absorption, but it can give you an idea of individual amino acid consumption.

[@loriecasbourne5743]

Thanks for this! As a 61 year old female attempting to build muscle after years of not having to try, this is GOLD!

[@michaelpugh609]

As a 55 year old I'm doing the same thing. I think this is the best advice I've heard in a long time!

[@freshtigertracksinthemud3052]

As a 63-year-old weightlifter, I’m concerned about the potential for intraglomular hypertension leading to chronic kidney disease at the protein intake levels recommended by Layman and Attia.

[@Eric3Frog]

@@freshtigertracksinthemud3052 that is an interesting concern that I’d like to see answered.

[@thecheapdvdstore]

I love plantbased milk , im stronger 💪 being plantbased than I ever was having dairy which is poison . The Dr definitely looks like he is the milky bar kid

[@C0d0ps]

@@thecheapdvdstore Dairy is not poison. Please stop spreading misinformation. As an omnivore I can guarantee I have less deficiencies than your diet. I am not lacking in any vitamins all I need is 5g fiber more.

[@Ragnar-Viking]

I was a kid that had a family that cared nothing of feeding me or healthy meals. Until I played sports, I had no clue until I witnessed normal families. I was a great QB ,but it was too late the damage was done. At 62 now, I am in probably better shape now, after some trying medical years, probably due to 16 years of bad everything as a child. This podcast was utterly amazing for me. I understand it now.

[@GigiRealtor]

Peter; you have the best guests and the best quality content. Lots of value. Just wanted to say that and THANK YOU! 🙏

[@dennisbauer3315]

I am really glad you learnt some very important things here Peter Attia MD about ruminant animals, and how the bacteria works to make our food from the process in the ruminant animals system. Your willingness to learn without embarrassment of a not previously known subject, or what you thought you knew, is very good. Thank you, it makes us all learn better.

[@esvedra2419]

We are so lucky to have opportunity to listen to these scientific discussions, no magazine bs!

[@donnakarr7561]

I am definitely a Dr Peter Attia groupie! This right here was amazing! 68 yr old female struggling getting in protein!!! Thank you for a deeper understanding. Thank you for the time you put into delivering such important information 🙏🏽❤️

[@boydhooper4080]

Great to hear, honest scientific perspective without any agenda or ideology. I’m nearly 60, and have no trouble maintaining muscle mass and strength and very respectable body fat. As Don suggested once people base their nutrition around quality protein, everything else falls into place. The anti-protein advocates are unfortunately locked into an ideology, rather than evidence paradigm. A final point: it’s actually easy to get 2+ grams of quality protein per KG of body weight (1g per pound) if you just supplement with one or two protein shakes a day. It really is that simple.

[@Fitin10nation]

This is probably the most interesting and well covered interview on dietary protein (and nutrition in general) that I’ve heard to date. Thank you Peter & Don!

[@alwayslearning4]

Another great episode, Peter. To have this information for free is a true blessing. Seriously - thank you man.

[@escorp991]

Fantastic interview! As a sports nutritionist, the information so succinctly presented by Don enriched my life and work. Thanks Peter!

[@Joy80JJ]

I listened to first hour doing my cardio. Now listening to last hour while eating my dinner. I learned alot & enjoyed this video.

[@bronze5420]

The best podcast episode I've ever listened to (of any podcast). You guys went from discussing the detailed science in an understandable way, all the way up to simple, actionable advice that is backed up by research, and the whole thing was very interesting.

[@ogeoge6000]

Thank you Don and thank you Peter. This is a fantastic interview, full of great information. This should be taught in every school, and to every adult.

[@nancykowalczyk2070]

One of my all-time favorite conversations about protein…love the deep dive. I’ve listened, almost 3 times…learned so much…so much more to learn! Thanks to both, for a fabulous discussion!!

[@calmoceans6668]

This discussion is solid gold. Thanks sincerely to all involved for making this happen.

[@theironforce3000]

Don is such a wealth of knowledge. I have to get major credit to Layne and Gabrielle Lyon for introducing me to him several years ago by name dropping and having him on there channels. This was a great interview, lot of important points covered here. I specifically like the ending 👏

[@harrybracey2232]

As a 71 year old , I can vouch for everything he says. It is very hard at my age to build muscle even lifting weights

[@lynnboyd9148]

Best discussion I’ve ever heard about protein. I’ll definitely listen again to really absorb the info presented. Thanks to both of you!!

[@jaghad]

I've listened to Don Layman before and he is just awesome. So thankful for putting him on. 😊

[@yesiamathinker1580]

I saved this discussion and was just soaking it in. Had to stop. It is TOO -FABULOUSLY -INFORMATIVE -AND -EXACTLY -WHAT -I -NEED -TO -KNOW -RIGHT -NOW...! I love it! By the time I grasp it all and figure out how to apply to my unique , uh, situation, I do believe I will have a most pleasurable, satisfied headache. 😊

[@cassieyjo]

Trying to learn about protein and need to rewatch this over and over. I must have done damage to my system being a vegetarian half my life not eating much protein at all. Only in the last few months have I been trying to intake protein but around 1:23 or so when we talk about older adults needing the full amount of protein to have effect is so helpful to learn. Thank you Dr. Attia and Dr. Layman!

[@GaryHighFruit]

Vegan diets don't lack protein. This myth is old and tired. I've eaten a semi-fruitarian vegan diet for 30 years, and recently got a clean bill of health. The animals people eat for protein, all eat plant-based.

[@larskoch6907]

Peter, I love your channel. I'm 65 and in pretty good shape. I believe that due to your channel, I have a better plan for my training and eating. Thank you for you/r efforts and research . I'm getting younger and in better shape thanks to you, In gratitude, Lars.

[@bigpicturegains]

This is one of those “mind blown” podcasts 🤯 Incredible information, thanks for sharing it with the world 🙏

[@YJakane]

What an incredible mind Don Layman has, thank you for bringing us this conversation

[@ashdgee]

As an athlete, I have never found an indepth podcast on protein like this one. Very eye opening

[@Libertas_P77]

Time for more from The Drive - doesn’t get any better than a Peter Attia deep dive into protein.

[@barbarafairbanks4578]

Agree!😀

[@carrielight3535]

Thank you so much for this episode Peter! I have watched and listened to it 5 times and every time I learn more and more from it. Such brilliant minds and I am so thankful that I am able to learn from the best! Thank you again for all your teachings!

[@treedom5094]

Thanks to Peter for being more personable and less adversarial than he has shown himself to be capable of being in conversation with Dave Feldman, even at times where the subject matter was revisited ... with Don pointing in very similar directions those in which Dave was pointing. Peter, please keep on bringing more people in to talk more, uninterrupted, who will help to dispel confusion about such studies as the Minnesota. Nick Lane. Peter Dobromylskyj. Douglas Wallace. Matthew Phillips ... etc.

[@stoenchu122]

Hands down the best podcast i have watched about protein

[@CashMoneyMoore]

On the Minnesota Coronary Experiment 20:45, I wish peter had said more about the possible interpretations of this study because I think it's an incredibly powerful study. LDL went down, and CVD went up. Saturated fat went down, and CVD went up. This was an incredibly well-controlled study since people couldn't leave and were being spoon-fed. This type of study is so expensive that it just can't be done cheaply and the fact that they didn't publish and hid data should tell you everything. I think the implications of the study are clear, and I'm curious why Peter has such a hard time accepting its results.

[@alainbrunner6658]

So true. Peter is extremely smart but IMO he is wrong on ApoB causing heart disease. He seems to have a strong bias in that regard.

[@careyjamesmajeski3203]

Thanks for the valuable comment.

[@robertsimpson2177]

I had a heart attack 6/5/23…cholesterol 140, ldl 90, …hdl 40, triglycerides 300

[@nataliajimenez1870]

He has a lot of friends that are vegans, so he's not willing to expressly say that a high saturated fat/animal protein diet is healthier than a high seed oil/high carb diet

[@rogerbrown9141]

I’ve listened to this podcast several times and learn more and more every time. Both participant are excellent . I do have one problem with the timing of protein in the meal and that is the fact that it takes something like 6 hours for protein to be “metabolizable” to all the amino acids. For that reason, I always thought that a morning (before 9 am) would be necessary to get the advantage of protein. Now I wonder how leucine does its work on mTor as is surmised.

[@esterig.9955]

This is so timely for me to confirm to focus on a constant amount of protein rather than the percentage and to front load. Thank you.

[@dsemianczuk151]

This is truly one of the best podcasts you've done.

[@erastvandoren]

Worst

[@wbeckmann6965]

@@erastvandoren you’re not very convincing

[@erastvandoren]

@@wbeckmann6965 Isn't it self-evident? Layman is industry-funded shill, zero knowledge, lots of mistakes.

[@boblulich7511]

I listened to 95% of this. Key question. I heard about 2 years ago that whey based protein (like protein powders) can raise insulin levels. Is that true and if so, what kind of percentage level? Of course when I heard that, I was 66. The reason I ask is that at 66 my a1c was 5.9. Through a keto diet my a1c is now 5.6 (still working on lowering that). As a side note, I went from 248 pounds (I'm 6'7") to 204 pounds. I weight lift 3 times per week to keep tone and do various forms of cardio both inside the gym and outside. Dr Attia, thanks for everything you provide!

[@zorinaganpaul1598]

2 hours of pure knowledge. Incredibly interesting. Thank-you

[@lisabeck5582]

Chock-full of really good, useful information brought about, in part, due to some excellent questions. Videos of this length are usually used to fall asleep to, but I decided to watch this on a television screen instead and I am glad I did. I thought I knew a lot about nutrition to include protein consumption and timing, but I learned so much more just from watching this one video. I took a lot of notes - the hallmark of a good, educational video. I’ve seen quite a few video shorts and longer length videos by or including Dr. Attis, and had assumed I was already a subscriber, but while watching this video I realized I had not yet clicked on the subscribe button. After watching this video, I definitely wanted to subscribe to this channel because it is one of the best on KZbin.

[@williammcgrail]

Life-altering...fabulous information...I really appreciate Peter's ability to circle back in his conversations..and focus on the practical..

[@chamuuemura5314]

It’s a great video, but I wish there was a simple calculator they could provide for protein goals in meals. For example, 3 generational family, 8 people, 2 grandparents 70 y/old (40-10-10-40g/protein over meals?) 2 parents, 35, husband athletic 75kg, wife lean 55kg (40-30-30-40g and 40-20-20-40g?), and kids 2-15 y/old 1/3 to 1/2 that? Do kids need less lysine too or just less total protein? Lots of follow up questions but this was a great initiation.

[@shakarovdee]

I learned so much in this interview. I'm RD and study ageing. Nutrition is so nuanced with a traditional lag in current guidelines reflecting the latest research and barriers to doing quality research. The "religion" of food ideologies and the inescapable need for funding of research by industry was explained well.

[@gloriasaliba3395]

This video deserves to be watched by many - I have always felt great on a high protein moderate fat low carbohydrate diet! Awesome video filled with vital information - Peter would love to see you facilitate an awesome 4-some, You - Don and Drs Ben Birken and Gabrielle Lyon

[@SanatoZen]

To this day one of if not the absolute best talk I have heard about nutrition in general. So insightful

[@jq8706]

This was an incredibly informative podcast. I listen to many podcasts and this has been one my favorite. Thanks, Peter! Much appreciated.

[@jbeebuchanan2136]

Wow, mind blown. What a great podcast. I have been so confused by the folks saying don't eat meat and the other side of the aisle saying eat 2 grams per pound. Don and Peter are just a wealth of knowledge

[@qingyuhu]

WOW! Information from Don Laymen is like a keystone and just connected so much of what I have learned and experienced together. Words cannot describe how amazing this information this is, my mind is completely blown!

[@KellieBell]

This is amazing and life changing, especially at 41 recovering from a lisfranc injury. So much information supporting things I used to know, but sort of got lost in this halo of health associated with fasting and plant only diet. I feel so vindicated in fighting against the tide of my vegan friends health shaming me. New to your channel, thank you so much. Love getting into the biochem details. I used to work in biochem research and appreciate when people offer research and evidence based on that most basic level of our biology. Really cuts thru the BS.

[@trismegistus3461]

0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids

[@LivingTheLifeRetired]

I have to agree with you closing words and this was fantastic. There were parts that I didn’t quite grasp like MTOR and the detailed discussion around the various amino acids but I stuck it out to them. I appreciated the parts were you paused to give little explainers to the audience. You brought up some interesting ideas or things that I never really thought about like spreading protein across the meals (others have said you should but no explanation) and maybe focusing on absolute protein numbers vs percent of calories. Overall outstanding interview.

[@nolanritcey8439]

The response here on alternative meats Beyond and Impossible was not informative. Beyond stock price and Burger King sales are irrelevant to nutrition. I'm glad this comment came immediately after the disclosure of funding/conflicts because it gives the viewer a better sense of the amplitude of those conflicts. However, follow up questions would be helpful. Which ingredients in which products lack FDA approval? (They are substantially different products - Impossible is GMO soy and Beyond is pea protein.) Is he referring to the GMO heme in Impossible? (The ingredients in Beyond are obvious no novel, even to a nutrition novice.) What do we know about the process they are using? Is there a difference between the soy and protein products of which people should be aware? The China comment is also bizzare since, if it refers to Beyond, that factory was opened specifically for Chinese market. I understand that the prevailing bias here is toward meat based diets given the science, but a balanced discussion would make this more informative for people who, for whatever reason, won't eat meat.

[@nancyevans5176]

I would so appreciate if the guest could answer my below comment; educate me on how to maintain a diet with a concern of heart disease, and still get enough protein. At 65. Thank you sir. Very interesting talk you need a podcast!

[@straightedgeveganbel2453]

Fascinating. I'm glad to hear some talk about older ppl, and frail ppl trying to build muscle....it's a little mind bending to put this all together as a very small woman who's only allotted so many calories in a day, but very active. I do have fluid retention in my lower body daily, like from the chest down....I may try upping my protein and spreading it out🤷‍♀️

[@docgonzo3517]

one of the best episodes to date. Particularly like how balanced he is on the plant protein front which is one of my concerns with current trends I feel are not beneficial [meaning these hyperprocessed plant foods and energy costs of scaling them as staples for large numbers of people]. FWIW I'm vegetarian and have been for decades (with occasional vegan periods) but I also have biochem (BSc hons) background and know how much effort it takes for me is not maintainable for average person. Despite I track my nutrition and training down to the minutia, my general advice to others and to my kids (eldest all left hown and grown up now) is to eat a healthy balanced diet with clean minimally processed animal proteins. Much much easier to get it right and with less effort when you don't start adding heavy constraints. Reasons why I do personally doesn't matter to others and takes more knowledge, interest and energy than most people would find works for them IMHO.

[@davidgrimes4726]

Easily one of the best episodes of The Drive ever! I just rewatched the whole thing. Don raises many subtle but important points worth thinking about in this one! I loved the discussion of ruminants as essentially the likely foundation of the human diet (historically at least), as well as some sense of reality about how we may need to learn to best incorporate plant proteins. But basing your diet on plants is not something to be taken lightly!

[@daverinker]

These insights are gold, thanks Don and Peter. We are here in Rochester MN in the shadow of Mayo (great work being done there), but Don’s work weaving through the state makes us happy. So much to apply to our healthy boys (10,6yrs) and my 40yrs protein weak! Body. Thanks.

[@josephamiltony]

24 minutes in and love the conversation so far, absolutely riveting!

[@danielyee1423]

This is one of the most insightful episodes I have heard regarding the importance of specific amino acids and the actual total protein requirements based on the source of the protein. Thank you.👍

[@garethf5131]

3rd time watching this. Such an important podcast to listen to for us all, as we continue to age. Thanks Peter and Don ❤

[@reneedevereaux8537]

Incredibly important interview! Thank you so much! As a certified nutritionist I'm particularly interested in the protein burden on the kidneys. I learned early in my career that the degradation of protein results in high ammonia which is likely to harm the kidneys. Please address this pertinent question. I'm deeply appreciative of all the information you share.

[@kellyabrahamson9139]

I’ve watched 20 of Dr Layman interviews, it’s been covered. Also look at Dr Gabrielle Lyon who he mentions.

[@heidisunshine2003]

Sooo good 😊 Loved listening to your conversation with Dr. Don Layman the OG of protein priority

[@gentleoldmoviefan5680]

what does OG mean?

[@heidisunshine2003]

@@gentleoldmoviefan5680 OG stands for Original Gangster. OG is an internet slang initialism used to describe an extraordinary person. It is a compliment. I have been following Dr Layman for years

[@gentleoldmoviefan5680]

@@heidisunshine2003 Thanks! Kind of you to answer. From other comments I have been reading here, it seems that many people hold him - and his work - in high regard.

[@jasondeets3445]

This was an excellent talk. I intend on listening to the whole thing over again tomorrow.

[@drichi07]

I love these deep dives on nutrition, being an American.

[@ammovette]

I know this video is a year old, but I am always amazed every time I listen to Dr. Layman.

[@io8787]

one of the best and most interesting podcast I have ever heard...fantastic job Peter!!!

[@danf6975]

This was the most amazing crash course into amino‘s all the way from origination as fibrous plants, to our consumption and rebalance, that I have ever seen.

[@kimberlylloyd5313]

This was fantastic content! My new favorite video! Dr. Layman and Dr. Gabrielle Lyon have helped me reshape my understanding of protein and to get incredible results in my own lifestyle and fitness goals.

[@getter_done]

Thank you Dr Attia & Dr Layman. Great discussion 👏👏

[@Theo-ul8qm]

Interesting conversation! The point about almond milk is something I’ve noticed myself. I’ve noticed that in some countries, almond ‘milk’ is not marketed as such. Nowhere on the label or carton / bottle does it say ‘milk’. It’s usually labeled ‘almond drink’. The same goes for all the other plant source ‘milks’ which, of course, is the more correct way to name it.

[@magentamagenta1274]

@Theo-ul8qm Nut milk is very easy to make you do not need to buy processed milk it’s not healthy. - recipe Soak 2 cups of raw almonds overnight or a few hours. Rinse and add 2 cups of filtered water Liquidise or blitz in a NutriBullet Add more water if you want a thin consistency Squeeze into a jug through muslin or a nut bag You can add cinnamon or vanilla a little pink Himalayan salt. The almond meal can also be used and frozen. You can dehydrate it, grind it to make almond flour. :)

[@kristinehatkinson7323]

What for? @@magentamagenta1274

[@timeslikethese6379]

The best interview, of several with Layman, I've seen. Pegged to watch again and again. Many thanks.

[@Nilsosmar]

Note to Peter: Please interview Dr. Gabrielle Lyon :) She has years of practical experience applying the principles Layman is discussing in this video. Re: this video, it's great - should clear up the confusion a lot of people have about protein needs, particularly if they've been listening to researchers such as Dr. Valter Longo. Longo is a good resource in terms of fasting and and fasting mimicking diets, but his "eat plant based/eat low protein" recommendations have (in my opinion) done more harm than good, and created a great deal of confusion. I do agree with him that Mediterranean diets can have benefits. But they're not all as uber-low in protein as the ones Longo recommends. My friends from Greece tell me they eat, for example, a lot of fish, poultry and lamb, much more than Longo recommends eating.

[@chuckleezodiac24]

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is an extremist, proselytizing cultish fanaticism devoted to the Church of Carni-Whoredom.

[@dajackalz]

Do you have any resources to help me reconcile the two extremes re protein quantity and longevity(cancer risk)?

[@jaghad]

@@dajackalz Go listen to Stuart Phillps. They did some research, not yet published, and he talks about it somewhere on an interview, and he pretty much debunked Longos talk about protein, Mtor etc. Longo is great to listen to when it comes to fasting and if you get cancer to fast before chemo etc.

[@Joseph1NJ]

Those recommendations happen to be exactly what the sentinarians in the blue zones. And yes of course there's a genetic factor to the longevity. But what does him discredit is selling a powdered soup diet for $200.

[@Nilsosmar]

@@Joseph1NJ Yeah, the ProLon diet is way too pricey. I bought it once to see what was in it then made my own version for about $50 for the five days instead of $200. Remember though that Longo doesn't profit from it. He said recently that he sometimes wishes that he did, because it's selling well. But to remove the profit motive from equation he set it up legally when he helped ProLong formulate it so that he would not get any money from the sales.

[@paulsteeper8019]

Clear, consice, respectful and nuanced. Thank you 👌

[@hammadahmed8785]

Please Peter ,have Dr. Stuart McGill on the podcast

[@TInyK12]

Agree.

[@rachelr589]

Absolutely amazing podcast. Best information on protein I’ve ever heard! Very informative and love the non religious and just science aspect.

[@frankfeather8548]

Many good points and observations, but am curious how they square this with all the studies that show a lower protein diets lead to increased longevity and better health compared to high protein consumption.

[@emmyt9304]

I will be listening to this podcast again. This was such an amazing interview and discussion!

[@laviniaflorist288]

Again and again and again 😄