224 Valkyrie - 6.5 vs 7 Twist Head-To-Head Range Test

Testing the 224 Valkyrie with heavy bullets in 1:6.5 and 1:7 twist barrels from White Oak Armament.
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[@dominickdelfino7552]

Johnny Ive shot sub moa groups with those factory fusion rounds all the way up to 4” myself comp;lately baffling. Head over to my channel if you want to take a look. I will be loading up my next set of tests with both the SMK 90gr as well as the 88gr ELD-M. Try Western powders “Big Game” powder if you can get your hands on it so far its given me the best accuracy.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've seen all of your videos but I need to go back and re-watch for your Fusion results. I was gobsmacked when they didn't fly. Big Game has been on my wish list for a long time but I don't think I've EVER seen it in a store. The next time I pay a hazmat I'll have to pick some up. I've heard good stuff about it and there's data for a lot of the rounds I load. I've been meaning to bitch at you for a couple weeks now. Between all of the messages we've exchanged back and forth over the last year you never once mentioned that you were making videos until your last email. That's bullcrap, man. lol You are doing a nice job and I'll try and send some viewers your way in one of my next Valkyrie videos.

[@dominickdelfino7552]

Johnny I guess I never mentioned it I mean it would be like a kid showing Leonardo Davinci his finger painting! :) If you havent tried powder valley give them a shot I find they have the best prices. Another great video as always as you know I am shooting a 1:7 so was wondering if that was the problem.

[@dominickdelfino7552]

Take a look at this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKfZlYmYit2sa5o you will see the first groups I talk about are the fusion groups, 2 5 shot groups 1 at under 1/2 MOA and the one to the right of it at 3 MOA, also the same exact issue as you with the brass!

[@marcrobert2603]

Big Game rocks in my 308, you have to try Wild Boar also. So much better thanVV 133 and VV140. I live where Ramshot is made.

[@i556xx4]

Hey Dom, just got back from the range, I used 26.9 grains of h4350 with the hornady 88 grains and it shot great, almost all the groups were sub moa and I was using sandbags and a 16x scope. The hornady match rounds did not shoot bad either. Im gonna sit tight and hope everyone works the kinks out.

[@lentztu]

I like the double rifle shooting...you even synced the shots. That' must have been time-consuming in editing. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@mcofield2291]

Thank you for your extensive study. Your video give me hope for my 1:7 barrel. People who don't reload do not know the time it takes or attention to detail it takes. Your very much appreciated here sir.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, brother. I really appreciate it.

[@davesweeney871]

I built a 7 twist 22-250 with a 26" shilen stainless steel barrel on a savage model 12 action. I've tested from 80 grain to 95 grain and stabilization was a non issue. I'm getting 2900ft/s with the 90 grain bergers. The sierra 90 grain hollow point match kings were way easier to tune as far as seating depth is concerned. The bergers basically need to kiss the lands

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I'm posting a little over at Instagram now. If that's your thing you can find me as @johnnysreloadingbench I'm sorry this video got delayed by a few days. My bullet seating problems, and the need to order a new die, are what caused it. We'll be talking a lot more about Valkyrie bullet seating in the next video. It's been a challenge.

[@shannonnunn]

Your shooting looks great.... No more free recoil.... Great video

[@jimhans1]

Johnny's Reloading Bench not surprised that the 1:7 twist is doing fine with these bullets. All of the Valk early barrel issues were the screwed up chambers I mentioned in the comments of your earlier Valk videos from the out-of-spec reamers with their incorrect throats. I’m glad you did this test, but still gonna stick to my 1:7 twist 18” gun for predator and varmint use, my 20” Krieger 1:6.5 twist will be the safe queen lol.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

@jimhans1is your 18" 1:7 shooting the Fusion okay? That failure really caught me off guard.

[@jimhans1]

Johnny's Reloading Bench I have not tested that round yet JRB, I ordered some today, will let you know as soon as it comes in!

[@geraldbondoc5974]

I wish you wouldn’t worry about your video length. I enjoy the details & learn a lot from them. I bet you didn’t get a lot of crap from your 9 hour live stream. There’s your evidence! Thx again bro!!! 👍👍👍

[@jasonfife2751]

Your killing it with these videos. Not even a close second (that I’ve seen). The editing on the side by side shots was impressive. I enjoy these longer videos, they’re great to watch while reloading. Job well done!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, brother! I'm glad to see the positive feedback on the side by side shots. I thought people might hate it.

[@Megahellastylin]

@@JohnnysReloadingBench I liked the side by side edit as well. Keep using it!

[@224valkyrieforum7]

We have seen the same results you are seeing. Federal brass currently is junk for reloading. Starline is "ok" if you stay 100-200fps below max velocity. The hornady brass is the best brass we have used (the ones with the staked primer pockets from the 88gr ELD factory ammo). We use a RCBS swage die, primers are nice and tight. We have had excellent results with 75gr ELD, 80gr ELD, 88gr ELD and 80gr berger VLD projectiles. We have found using RL-15 and Win760 are our go to powders along with PP-MR2000. 1" groups are easily obtainable with this cartridge. We actually prefer to shoot the valkyrie now instead of the creedmoor due to the low recoil and ease of verifying hits on target at distance. We will more than likely stay with 80-88gr projectiles due to the BC and being able to push them a little faster than the 90 or 95gr projectiles for long distance shooting. Keep up the great work! Your results pretty much mirror what we are seeing. One of our staff members uses a 1:7 twist 20" PSA barrel and has had zero accuracy issues. He noticed after he put on a gemtec flash hider that his groups decreased substantially. We plan to test 6.8SPC brass next and convert it to 224 valkyrie. We have a feeling this is going to be the best route to take.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I'll be interested to hear how your 6.8 SPC brass test goes! Have you heard of other folks with trouble stabilizing the Fusion bullet?

[@224valkyrieforum7]

Yes, we have had similar results with the fusion in 1:7 twist. My local gunstore actually has 20 boxes in stock right now... We tried converting hornady 6.8SPC to valkyrie and the neck was splitting. We will try annealing a little more and see what happens. Would really like to try some S&B brass to convert to valkyrie.

[@224valkyrieforum7]

If we can get the conversion to work properly we will send some converted 6.8SPC brass your way.

[@brianyamasaki1252]

@@224valkyrieforum7 Please post a video of your 6.8 conversion procedure. Do you think you'll have to turn the necks down at all?

[@deancubbedge65]

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[@waderussell6583]

That butterfly at 14:24 lol. Deathwish!

[@BoltActionReloading]

He really needs to wreck a group once just to shoot a fly or butterfly.

[@darrylryder8114]

Yeah that was pretty funny you waited

[@CoryHobbs2178]

That butterfly is a war hero!

[@C0R365]

I have done a good deal of testing on the Federal AE 75g FMJ .224 in a BA 18" 1/7 and it shoots a solid five shot 2MOA with the majority of rounds impacting inside 1MOA. I have over 300 rounds from various lots, and I have been recording and keeping the lots that shoot well. I have not been able to obtain Federal GMM 90g sadly. Fusion 90g consistently shoots POA cold barrel @100 yards, so I am confident in it as a hunting round which is the role of my rifle. Federal SMK 90g shoots 2MOA with an occasional 6MOA flyer: I have tested enough lots to determine it's consistent. I have shot 5 shot groups with 1MOA, but most groups 2MOA, and in ten shots groups it throws a flyer 2-6MOA. The Hornady 88g ELD that I have has shot the worst groups out of several boxes. So far the Federal AE 75g FMJ is the most consistent shooting close to POA cold bore and opening up with a 2MOA flyer. The groups tend to string excluding flyers. I have shot 1/2MOA three shots, but never five. In my case I may have been getting some contact on my gas block when the barrel heats updue to the small size of the front hand-guard. I shaved the gas block down this winter and made significant clearance so it should not be an issue this spring. I have been shooting from 0F to 90F with very similar results which is promising. The barrel is shooting very consistent, the cheaper Federal AE 75g is performing very well for a + MOA cartridge. The Fusion 90g is bullseye on @100y cold bore so I am happy. I would like to find a 1moa or 1/2moa cartridge: still searching. I shoot bulls fairly consistent so the majority of fundamental error is eliminated: it's cartridge and platform at this point. I use a bi-pod and a rear bag with a Burris XTRII. Being a hunting rifle, I have no interest in swapping the 18" for a 24." Feedback on video: Lot to lot Federal .224 is significant in everything I have been testing. When you find a lot that works stock up on what you need. I don't like the way you handle the single or partial box of Federal Fusion. You can't possibly test a single box without testing different lots, and come to a conclusion. Additionally it would be better to test same length barrels in 1/7 and 1/6.5 versus changing the barrel length and adding a second variable. Not too long ago buying Federal GMM 7.62N was a crapshoot, and most shooters would test lots and departments and divisions would buy lots that performed. I'm sure things have improved but to me, it's normal to test lots and not expect random boxes to perform. This is why folks reload, as you know. I would reload if I was a precision shooter for sure. I feel confident that the .224 has potential to be sub MOA accurate given the platform, cartridge, and shooter. I also feel out to 100 yards you are best served with 5.56N for accuracy until they produce factory cartridges that are more forgiving. This year I hope to get it out to 400 meters and test it's precision with 75g. I will test 88g and 90g, but probably not much due to the virus. I believe Bergers are the way to go, possibly 80g-90g: I hope to obtain some. Great work, my data is different, different hardware. If I do shit can my barrel if it fails to produce this summer, I will get a Larue and move on.

[@joshuaAgross]

I want to say that you make great videos. I've got a .224 Valkyrie 22" heavy barrel 6.5tw, Superlative Arm's piston system and I'm shooting 3 bullet projectiles 80gr Sierra HPBT FMJ, 88gr Hornady ELD, and Sierra 95gr HPBT FMJ... AR-COMP powder. I've got all my load data and shooting data. My data is different (22 inch barrel) but very similar data. I'm so happy with this rifle. It's flat, fast, & accurate shooting. I love my rifle...

[@CascadingDream]

I've heard it stated there was a problem with initial reamers that were used by most of the early barrel makers. Larue stated they never had a problem and continue to use 1:7 barrels but they make their own reamers.

[@mossranchoutdoors7249]

These chambering issues are astounding to me. Did their qc people take the day off or what?

[@TheGunCollective]

Really surprising results throughout. I've not had good luck with the 90gr SMK factory loads at all. We certainly haven't put as many rounds down range as you but still underwhelming on my end. I'm going to keep tracking this series to see which load ends up being your winner.

[@uncleremis69]

That was a ton of work. Thank you so much for this and all your videos

[@stevereynolds1739]

Hello Johnny, Steve here. I would thank you for your time energy and resources on this video. The targets that you show at 26:15 on the video head to head 6.5 vs 7.0 twist confirmed what suspected. Doing a little math the 6.5 to 1 twist rate outperforms the 7.0 to 1 by at least 60% . I have on order a PSA 224 upper 20" barrel 7 to 1 twist. Got an excellent price. More than likely I will be change the barrel to a 24" or 26" with a 6.5 twist. This caliber has been advertised a long range but not sure how it will live up to high expectations. When th 223 guys shoot long range they use 90 grains single feed and most have at least a 6.7 to 1 of faster. The 24 o 26 inch barrel will give me the velocity with out having to jacking up the charge wts. The 6.5 twist will give me the stability I think is necessary for consistent groupings.

[@i556xx4]

Johnny your 26.9gr load and 88 grains shot great today out of my 6.5 twist.Keep up the good videos.

[@pawswet9476]

First, thanks for doing these videos! Awesome. Very creative way to deliver the info quickly. That’s some impressive video editing JRB. You must have the patience of Job. I think twist rate gets blamed unfairly for a number of variables that affect stability. There are limits, sure, but not all stability issues are due to twist. If the bullet manufacturing process is not under control, it’s going to wobble or throw fliers. Bullet manufacturers would love to blame results of unbalanced bullets on the barrels, but that’s not always the case. In their defense, think about how difficult it must be to control the manufacturing process well enough to make a uniform lot of true match grade bullets! It would be fun to see longer range shots (300yards +) with slower than recommended twist rates to see if these match bullets remain stable. Lots of cool (and frustrating) stuff happens well after the first hundred yards!

[@astacrouse]

This weekend I came away from the range with 6 sub-moa loads using IMR8208XBR. All Sierra bullets: 65 (Game King) 69, 77, 95 (Match King, non-tipped) Everything stabilized in my PSA 20" 1:7 except the 95 with very slightly jagged holes. I wouldn't rule out the 90's just yet, but couldn't find any at the local shop. I'll also second the primer pocket issue on factory ammo. These are my first fires on fresh Starline brass, I haven't seen what shape they are in. Using Lee Pacesetter die set, the seater marks up the 95gr as well.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks for the info! I was wondering about the Lee seater. The Redding VLD seating stem for their die seems to be the best, but I haven't been able to justify the cost of that guy. I am loving the Hornady dies and the ELD stem actually fits the 90 and 95 SMK really well. I forgot to mention that when I was talking about how they didn't quite fit the 88 properly. I feel sure they'll release a stem for the 88 sometime soon. The 90 SMKs have been hard to find but they seem to be coming back in stock recently.

[@adeniranm7647]

Love the side-by-side shooting comparison

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks! I figured people would either love it or hate it. It makes for a lot of info to process at one time! I'm glad to see the feedback is positive so far.

[@riflemanr15]

I also couldn't stabilize the fusions in my 7 twist good to see someone else who couldn't

[@annasajerk]

I hope you realize just how much we appreciate your content, JRB. Please dont go anywhere

[@garykondek5231]

10 shot groups, luv them. Side by side editing, great. Best video yet! Thanks for keeping at it.

[@jeffhuntley2921]

So much information to absorb:) very well put together video! I’m going to have to watch it again to make sure it sets into my brain. There’s no way I could afford to do this kind of testing on my own, so I hope you understand that all this hard work is really appreciated!

[@klevee6076]

Those rifles shoot well. Seven to ten shot groups truly represent what a rifle and load are consistently capable of. Really informative. I built a 7 twist 26" 22-250 save. Slings those 95 grain into one hole at 100 meters. Great product. The 90 berger vld are nice too. Thanks for the vid

[@tedweldon8442]

I can confirm the primer pocket issues, I went through the 200 I’ve been using for load development and 40 failed the primer no go gauge. I’m not surprised as 6.8 SPC has the same issue. If they are the max charges you load and start to show pressure signs the primer pockets will fail. The case for the Valkyrie are Federal, 6.8 SPC are Hornady. But the base case is that 6.8 SPC. I’ve also kept track on my Grendel and .223 they are not near that high of primer pocket failure, less than 5%. They fail with base separation on neck fractures.

[@phillyeagle6942]

Johnny, first of all thanks for all your effort and leading the way in testing the Valkyrie. I've had bullet breakup issues with the Hornady 68 match bullet. Using 25 grains of Varget with velocities of about 2900 fps, my bullet failure rate was about 20%. This lead to a lot of problems during rapids in a high power match. I have decided to not use the 68 Hornady for any further work with my 6.5 twist WOA barrel. The 69 SMK seem to be OK with the same load, but i still have to do more verification on that. I'm still working with the 80 and 90 SMKs. They seem OK. I don't have the problems with the loose primers that you do, but my loads are not as aggressive as yours. I usually stop at about 1/2 grain less than you. However, I did lose a number of cases due to case shoulder to neck splits since I was using small base dies at first. Those dies overwork the brass. Another problem I had was with the WOA barrel. The gas port was a bit undersized causing problems with bolt cycling during rapids. Opened the port by about 0.005 and now I get good action cycling.

[@PC-vq5ud]

FANTASTIC WORK! The factory and vendor support you get validates your work!

[@troynichols9788]

Ok. You had me at '10 hours of range footage and 64 groups to show you'. WTF. That makes you an authority on this subject like no other ... and more importantly just a downright good human being for doing the work so guys like me could watch this in just a little bit more time than it took me to drink a really good cold beer. I'm flat-out impressed. (ok, whatever, two beers)

[@squib3083]

your videos have incredible amount of information and style of presentation is perfect. thank you for sharing your findings.

[@marbo40k35]

Really liking the side-by-side target comparison. A great visual for head to head testing. Great work as usual.

[@gunsaccessories8853]

Dude you spent a stupid amount of time putting this video together! And it is totally worth it. Great video!

[@number40Fan]

Not my cup of tea (cartridge), but I do appreciate the time put into the video. And don't cut yourself short. Those hour long videos you use to make, I watched them all. 4 hour chat...yep.

[@No1JetDoc]

👍Great video! Thank you, I've been waiting anxiously to step into 224V. Looks like at least White Oak has the barrels figured out. None of it matters if the primer pockets are opening up in 1 or 2 loadings. Please keep us posted on the brass life. Thanks again for such a great channel!

[@WestDesertShooter]

So owning a 1:7 22” barrel I’m really happy with my setup assuming it will shoot similar. I didn’t see anything that made me think otherwise. Even with your crazy group with fusion, I’ve already tested that in mine and it did okay. Not great but decent. Thanks so much for the hard work. I was a bit disappointed in the RL17 groups but I will see if my barrel likes it. Worse case it will work great in my Creedmoor

[@brettr6895]

Barrel length is underated when it comes to stabilization. My 22" vs an 18" with the same 1/7 twist will stabilize a heavier and longer bullet. I'm happy with my Craddock Precision 22" 1/7 bbl. It groups 90 smks @ less than 1" @ 100 yds no problem. No keyholing like jrb experiences.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Chat at IV8888 is having great luck with RL17, so don't give up hope. The velocities are awesome. I'll be testing more with it as well. Hopefully I just landed on some bad loads in this video, or the compressed charges were screwing up bullet seating.

[@DB.KOOPER]

Love how deep and objectively you dive into subjects. Absolutely fabulous source of information and real world data. Thanks as always for the time you put into these videos. Cheers.

[@billybrown5701]

I shot the 90 grain fusion yesterday. My groups looked almost identical to yours. I would put two together almost touching and then two or three spread out as much as three or 4 inches. What is crazy is at 50 yards a couple of months ago they were very accurate. Maybe it started to wobble after 50? I would think that is unusual, Maybe between 100 and 200 yards? Who knows.Great video very informative

[@MrUberMetal]

I don't know what it is, but If you ran for govt. office I would vote for you.

[@sd3gunner]

I really like seeing you shoot groups withOUT you suppressor. I realize that most of the time you get better groups especially with your TC! The problem is that most Most of us watching do not have suppressors so you finding good groups with it on and bad groups without it really doesn't do Most of us much good, besides the fact of pure entertainment value... for groups and load development that is. Love your vids hope this wont get taken wrong

[@tedweldon8442]

I retired all my forester dies and went over to Hornady seating dies with the micro-adjust last year. I love the versatility with the different stems.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Yup, I'm officially a Hornady seating die guy now. They're pretty darn awesome and the price is great. I'm sick of the Forster problems.

[@JGoodZX6R]

Johnny! Extensive amount of time and effort put into this. Great work buddy!

[@CoryHobbs2178]

My wife doesn't understand why I watch endless hours of holes being punched into targets and gun videos. Interesting video you have here!

[@nataliconti7222]

20 inch 1:6.5 twist gave me a 1.5 inch at 500 yards. Thank you for helping me choose!

[@darrylryder8114]

Which upper did you go with? I'm looking at them but very few upper I can find with 1:6.5

[@TuanNguyen-oe5yr]

Hi Johnny, i appreciated your research i just concentrated to the 90g SMK vs the 95g SMK, average 6 shoot groups were 1.106 MOA for the 90g SMK in 1/ 6.5 twist vs 1.607 MOA/1/7 twist and for the 95 SMK 1.091 MOA/1/6.5 twist vs 1.515 MOA/1/7 twist, so consider everything was equal, the 6.5 twist barrel is more accurate than the 7 twist barrel for the 90g, 95g SMK, I'm just in love with the bc .600 of the 95g SMK

[@richardpiotrowski1043]

You know what was really cool.....? That Black Rifle Coffee Company ad they put in the middle of your video... about the SEAL that turned into a Ski Patrol Pro after end of service!

[@timl8302]

The Federal Fusion is made for hunting. It has a very large metplat. Great video.

[@8ballphilc]

Wow! Really appreciate the effort put into this and the detailed format it was presented in! Extremely well done! Much respect.

[@BoltActionReloading]

Great video and great info. I just ordered another project myself, like I needed another, but couldn't resist. Stability and twist rate seems to be the controversy that will never end.

[@robertturnbull2903]

What did you get any hints?

[@BoltActionReloading]

I have been looking into something in a 6mm projectile.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I noticed just the other day that White Oak has 6mm Creedmoor Ruger RPR barrels on their site. I doubt your 6.5 is shot out already, but that might be something to consider down the road. I've been getting a 6mm itch lately as well. Once my Weaver scope gets repaired for my 6 PPC I'll be doing some videos on that. Hopefully that's enough to scratch the itch because I've got way too much crap going on to get another rifle!

[@BoltActionReloading]

@@JohnnysReloadingBench I picked up some 107 smks, 110smks, 105 bergers, and some 115Dtacs to get started.

[@thebaddest2562]

Sweet a jrb video. This makes my labor day perfect.

[@zakattack467]

Just bought a 18" savage msr 1:7. I know I'm not going to get moa groups at 1300 yards, but that's not why I bought it. I'll be happy to shoot 600 yards for half the price for ammo as my 243, plus I can get a cheap 5.56 upper for plinking if I want. I'm stoked.

[@307outdoors8]

It's good to see some real world data. I built mine a week ago and doing some load data, this really helped me out. I went with the 6.5 twist in out of availability. I wish they made some hunting style loads for predators. Something that can save some fur but knock em down

[@mrowoofers101]

14:22 The butterfly was like "don't mind me, I am a couple centimeters away!"

[@BenAtTheTube]

Thanks, great video. Plenty of information to justify the length. I don't have a .224 Valkyrie and you are convincing me I don't need one! My .270 Win achieves 3000 fps easily with 130-grain bullets. I never load any ammunition compressed - it is too hard to light the powder evenly so poor uniformity. Use the next faster burning powder with a charge that actually fits the case volume well, and that is as fast as that case/bullet should run.

[@TexasTrained]

I did nit like my 224 Valkyrie at first.It was mainly a feeding and ejection problem.With a little accuracy thrown in.A new adjustable gas block and heavier bullets and now I love it. The Federal 75gr shot ok at 600 yds but the 88gr ELD-M Shot really good. At 600 yds

[@shanerhodes925]

Hey nice timing Johnny just as I was thinking about reloading some 556 for the first time your video popped up. Thanks for letting me watch a new video while I start this adventure

[@Carlyle_SFFS]

Its interesting on the 6.5 vs 7 twist rifle. I built a 224 Valkyrie with a 24" heavy barrel. Shot the 90 grain fusion, same as you, couldn't get it to group under 5" center to center. Since then the round i use is the 88 gr ELD Match and the 80.5 Berger with great results

[@redraiderreloading7612]

This is like a cup of Folgers, I wake to Jrb video..

[@FullSendPrecision]

Dont trash brass! Brass is recyclable and well worth the money

[@AZIROC]

Just wanted to say tha is for revisiting 224 Valkyrie. I'm "all in" on my build but since its summer in Phoenix, I haven't gone out to do load work ups yet. These videos are really helping me figure out what powders I'll need to try. Was hoping XBR would have given better fps/results. Same for Varget. R17 and h4350 may be in me near future.

[@darren996]

I tested all 4 Federal factory bullets out of my CMMG 1:7 twist this weekend and got completely differing results. Very strange. The Fusion produced the best group, followed by the Nosler, then the SMK, and of course lastly the 75G TMJ. Definitely surprising... after I watch YOUR results. A head-scratcher.

[@drtracyst]

outstanding videos. problem- the wifes not happy lol just ordered a bunch of reloading supplies. you do an excellent job in you explanations. cant wait to get back to developing my own loads. also have a alpha shooting sports 224 upper coming. you give the perfect starting points. finally found a load that my bushmaster will stack at 100. dont rem specifics, written down at home. keep up the great work.

[@dang3]

I was all excited about this round until I started hearing it wasn’t living up to the hype. After hearing all the excuses why it might not be shooting that good I’m now on the fence about getting one. I really appreciate you taking the time to really test different bullets, powders and twist rates to see if any of those excuses were the reason. I’m following your videos on this round like an obsessive stocker follows their ex on Facebook.

[@Dadguy86]

I've been kicking around the idea of trying a slow powder like 4320 in a 24" 1:7. I found a velocity node around 2666-2670 fps with rl15 and an 88 gr eld, havent had time to experiment with it any further yet.. I like the videos, interesting results to say the least!

[@anthonylandino7709]

I stupidly bought several boxes of the 90 gr. Federal Fusion factory Ammo.. They shot so badly I called my armorer who built my .224. He said all his friends had the same terrible results with the 90 gr. Federal Fusion Ammo. He recommended the 88 gr. Hornady ELD Match. There are several blogs which talked of the terrible results with the Fusion. A couple of sites even insinuated that Federal knew of this problem with the early Fusion batches. The punchline is that I would up selling the remaining ammo at about 50% of what I had paid. I just bought 2 boxes of the Hornady Black 75gr. BTHP Ammo which I will try at the range this week. This Ammo has very high velocity so I have great hopes for it.

[@rider547]

Thanks for all the great info Johnny. Many of my discoveries in reloading for my PSA 20” 1:7 upper go right along with your video. I’ve used RL17 to get the velocity but it is compressed. I’ve had real good luck with Varget and Hornady’s 75 gr HPBT out to 600 yards. I really want to try the H414 next with the Hornady 88 gr. Keep up the great videos!!!!

[@530eman]

Great video, thank you. My .224 Valkyrie upper from Aero precision is 22" and a 1:7 twist. I was hitting steel at 1000yds with Federal 75gr factory loads... Don't know what to say...Heading out next month to try other factory loads...

[@darrylryder8114]

I think its interesting that very few manufacturers build a 1:6.5. I'd even like to see Federal produce a 1:6.7 seeing how they said that round would like that twist better

[@davesweeney871]

The 90 grain bergers shot best in my 22-250 7 twist shilen kissing the lands,however if you're having a problem with seating depth berger's website has an excellent tutorial on their website that covers all the bases efficiently. keep exploring using very slow,"magnum" powders,like retumbo and h1000 with heavy for cartridge bullets. I'm seeing crazy low sd and es. Single digits is achievable pretty simply. The key is to minimize airspace in the case. This keeps velocities consistent and because they are slow burning they aren't as hard on the throats. Gotta find the optimal burn for your barrel length. I'm 26" long which allows me to use slower burning powders and achieve higher velocities. Just spitballing

[@reedpond6867]

There is the twist rate and the rifling profiles. A 1/7 5R barrel at 20 to 22 inches might be the "magic ticket" for the .224 Valkyrie. Myself would be interested in a 26" 1/7 5R and a 26" 1/6.5 5R barrels to do more load development with. Start at 26" and go shorter to find the sweet spot if at all possible.

[@bobbygetsbanned6049]

I like the 224 Valkyrie ballistics but damn I think it holds the record for the touchiest round ever. Every gun seems to only shoot very specific ammo well.

[@jordanhays732]

I really enjoyed this video Johnny. Your video editing was awesome. Your data on reloading is unparalleled. I’ve been thinking on joining the Valkyrie band wagon. However I have yet to pull the trigger. Pun intended. Love every video as always keep up the great work.

[@stevejorgensen5274]

If you increased range out to 500 yards you would have profiles of bullets in targets. Bullet length not weight is what determines twist needed. I still have about 500 90grain JLK bullets. I shoot them out of my 6.5 twist barrel with a 223 chamber. Bullets are loaded out to lands. It will do 1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 200 yards when loaded over 24 grains of RL15. The green hill formula is how you can determine twist needed.

[@KurtOnoIR]

Yes I had terrible results with the federal fusion. Off the paper at 100yd, sideways and shedding jackets, tried three boxes bought at three different times and places. Mine is a 1in7 24" barrel from ballistic advantage. Not the most expensive barrel but it's shooting decent. Honestly the best have been the Hornady black 75 grn for factory. Handloads are going good now, I gotta keep them below 2700 for heaviest bullets tho.

[@Buddyhall04]

Enjoyed the video. I've been reloading about 50yrs. One of my favorite slow burning powders for heavy bullets 180 gr or so is, H4831. Might work with your 90 hrs. 224. A favorite fast burning powder is, IMR 4064. I've always had good luck with it, but every gun barrel has a bullet it likes. Just a thought. Keep Shooting.

[@bigb0r3]

Even at 37minutes you cram a LOT of data into the video. Well done!

[@SearchingMessenger]

On my 24" BSF 6.5 Twist, the 55 Berger at 3,500 FPS was coming apart. It must be right on the border because some were good - some were not. The 20" 7.7 ARP barrel was fine with it at under 3,400 FPS.

[@BrianSanner-rr6lp]

Excellent job in your comparison, and I hope this caliber is more accurate than this. This is just me, but I'd never allow this rifle to set in my safe..

[@adeniranm7647]

Johnny's Reloading Bench is back! 🙂

[@FeiTongWen]

Your methodology is impeccable. My science mentor Dr. C. Scott would have given you straight "A"s for the work you do. Kudos to you, and I hope other shooters pay attention to your meticulous attention to detail. Keep it up!!!

[@xjjeepin1]

I have had the same result with the fusions out of my 1:7 barrel

[@1112eo]

Still interested in barnes 85 grains. thanks for all your great work have not gotten my dies yet so I will be glad to see where you land on those.

[@tjh44961]

I always enjoy your videos, I think it's the amount of thought that you put into your narration. I've never heard anything that I consider to be unclear or not well thought out. The thing about bullet length in relation to the twist rate is that, for the most part, the length of the bullet is also related to its weight. The Fusion bullet is the same weight as the SMK, but has a smaller radius ogive, so it carries its weight closer to the back of the bullet, so the bullet can be shorter. I wonder if Starline needs to make some large primer brass? That would spread the pressure out over a greater area, maybe extend the life of the primer pocket? I think the head is big enough.

[@SearchingMessenger]

Yes on primer pocket failures for me, too. I end up setting m max at zero failures on 10 shots. I use exclusively CCI #41. Starline seems slightly better than Hornady - but not enough to stop using Hornady if available.

[@Warthog71]

Thx Johnny. You I’m gonna buy the Hornady die. I haven’t yet began to load for my 224, but in the mean time, my 20” 1/7 shoots 75gr federal AE incredibly. I am hoping to produce that same grouping and consistency with a heavier bullet, so I can put e day reach further out.

[@toms8788]

I have an 18 inch one and seven twist bear creek arsenal barrel loves the 75 grain heavier stuffed up not as tight and had exact same results with the federal fusion they were everywhere

[@alexiezante3663]

First comment from me on your content--I really like how you edited the footage for head to head comparisons. I look forward to similar videos.

[@speedbuggie]

Just like to say Great job on an extensive video of the 244 Valkyrie round! I would love to see something int 100 to 110 gr range. Thanks Awesome job!

[@bigbadjohn8207]

Vld bullets like the jlks are usually jump sensitive. They normally like .005 off the lands or less. I use a Wilson hand die for my .223 and love it! Def. worth the money. Federal brass has always been a problem in the .223 loose primers. Also, I’ve been shooting service rifle for 15yrs now and really love the 73gr Berger’s. Might shoot well for ya in that valkyrie.

[@joelclark2130]

Awesome video thank you for your due diligence .and thank you again for your time and patience with that cartridge. I think all the bugs are not worked out of it yet I think it's a problem child and I'll stick with my 223, and my next to cartridges 6.5 x55 and 260 Remington.

[@johnkeisterelquattro2553]

Badass man!! Great research. Seems like that H414 is a great powder for this platform

[@hardtarget2359]

I knew the 1/7 would handle the 95gr smk. The Grendel and Creedmoor have a 1/8 standard twist and they can shoot up to 147gr projectiles. Granted the diameter of the bullet is just a little bit bigger. But looking at the length of both the heavy 6.5 bullet to the heavy 224 bullets the 6.5's are just a little longer. But they stabilize well in a1/8. So why wouldn't the 224 stabilize in a 1/7. I think the 224 bullets are a little more picky when it comes to barrel quality however.

[@turbonium96]

I was going to use some starline grendel for my .224 grendel, tested some loads, was blowing primers out 2 grains less than, hornadys max charge, tried some fire forming after necking the case down, 26 grains of cfe223 with a hornady 62 grain hpbt, it was getting ejector swipes, with that much more case capacity, pressure shouldn't have been a concerned at all.

[@guitarrocker0991]

Interesting video. I've been working with some lighter bullets out of my 24" Faxon heavy valkyrie barrel and I've seen some good results with 60gr VMax with 26.5gr CFE223. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get the 90gr below 1" at 100yards. I've also been loading them super hot though up to 1gr hotter than Sierra recommendations. I've also pushed 3450fps with the 60gr and not seen separation with them, but that is a different bullet and all. Looking forward to trying more with the heavy projectiles after seeing this though.

[@davesweeney871]

Try a slower powder. Im testing retumbo with the 90 grain smk. Literally filling the case full and pouring out 15 kernels in order to fit the bullet without compressing the load. I wanted to see the velocity and whether its a viable option as a powdeer. Doing the same thing with my 260. Fill er up........

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Bless your heart. Thanks for the diligence & dedication.

[@matthouston8411]

One day I shot my handloads into a 10 shot all touching group, couple weeks later that ammo was the worst of the bunch. I've decided my astigmatism is worse than any ammo. So now I reload for cheaper copper hunting rounds or really just because I can't find copper hunting rounds here in CA yet those are required, and anything that can be cheaper, but if I found a few boxes of good quality hunting ammo in a store I'd use that too. ramble ramble

[@devildear6900]

Yes Hornady is having the same problem my buddy has a Valkyrie and he's having the same issues the primer pockets

[@mtnshooter2487]

Thx for the hard work John

[@monkeybuttdevinlane]

Wish I had watched this two days ago. Just ordered bullets, dies, mags, ammo, and brass for the 224 upper that I was going to put on the lower I just got. I knew about some of the reported problems in 1/7", but didn't plan on using the heavy bullets much anyway, since it's hard to get over 500yds in my area. Based on your findings, it looks like overall the caliber may not be worth the hassle and cost to get it to work consistently over a broad range of applications, especially if the brass doesn't hold up. I guess i will at least have the bcg and mags for 6.8 when I start building the next upper.....

[@ashleynicely1046]

I dont reload and I have a 223, not a 224. But this was an excellent video, I'd love to see one like it on 223.

[@preacherbiggin]

Once again another TOP NOTCH VIDEO & PRODUCTION! Thanks for such awesome content sir! Any thought/plans on doing a .50 Beowulf video?

[@boblane5169]

Another very informative video Johnny thank you for all your work on doing this testing! I must say though at this point I am glad that I did not jump on the Valkyrie band wagon.....

[@diablo114873]

Underwood ammo is making the 224 controled chaos ammunition 72 grain shoots great check out out