22TCM vs 5.7x28 Penetration Testing

[@udmbfckx2916]

So the 22TCM coming out of a slower (pistol) barrel outperforms the 5.7 out of a faster (longer) barrel. What impressed me the most was the 22LR !

[@michaeljoyce3153]

udmbfck x the 22tcm is a soft point allowing for more penetration but acting as a hollow point. The 5.7x28 opened like it was supposed to the 22tcm didn't also allowing for more penetration.

[@Pancho_III]

Depends on the round of the 5.7, that round is made to break apart and is not made for penetrating; there are rounds that go through 16" ballistic gel, and go through multiple jugs. This is a round made for the range.

[@austinhowze6280]

They shooting water the slower the better

[@chaseprovost3825]

@@austinhowze6280 this is true

[@zdub8438]

Love my ria standard doublestack .22tcm/9mm. The pointed shape and angled case neck of the 22tcm aids in reliable feeding and the velocity ensures a massive energy dump and large permanent wound channel. I wouldn't feel undergunned with a. 22tcm.

[@BobcatBart]

A 5.7 round designed to almost immediately fragment while being shot out of a rifle (higher velocity), vs. a non-fragmenting round shot out of a pistol (lower velocity). Sadly, this video has no point.

[@BobcatBart]

Jack Attack - Exactly, depends on the round. The armor piercing rounds are only sold to LE and military.

[@QarthCEO]

Jack, The SS197SR he is using is designed to fragment.

[@zacht9447]

The velocity difference between these 2 is only about 300 max and 100 minimum, .22 tcm out of a 5 inch barrel should be around 2000 fps and 5.7 out of a 10 inch barrel is around 2300

[@fin_jan]

Pun intended?

[@PatriotNC1]

Since hollowpoints aren't known for their penetration, perhaps if Armscorp comes out with a FMJ round for the .22 TCM, it would show an even better performance in your tests.

[@repentttoday]

You see when you have a pretty girl with a gun on your video, your numbers are much higher

[@Bigshooterist]

+Jamie Dubree Imagine that...... :-)

[@repentttoday]

Love the class on youtube very informative. Yes I called it class that how I see it. Thanks!

[@bryceharrington842]

You got'a love it when a women says penitration and can't keep a straight face.

[@betoestrada3248]

Hell yea

[@bvancere]

Hahaha she was thinking some other kind of penetration

[@Fctsdntcarebouturfeelings]

Nah, I prefer self respect. Immaturity and immorality is widespread. You, your 44 likes, and the other genius who commented, is further proof.

[@SatanAzerath]

Water acts funny. Can't wait to see the video with ballistic gel. Also would love to see the .22 TCM round in a FMJ

[@savagesupreme921]

they never did follow up on this... good job

[@Bigshooterist]

I think the gel testing will show it is quite a different animal in regards to the amount of energy it dumps in a quick fashion. The best part of testing this stuff is when the performance is different than we think it is for me. I have plenty to learn and it is fun to share the information.

[@skitso8948]

Mostly impressed with the expansion of the 22TCM. Thanks for doing this vid,seriously looking at getting one now.

[@Bigshooterist]

We used the SR197SR rather than the SS195L.F. We will be testing several of their loads with this, Gel, glass and more in the near future.

[@SDMF04]

Went looking for a new sidearm, i was directed to the RAI section of the gun store, looking through the .45 pistols, the owner presented the 22 TCM. At first I had zero interest, then he showed me the 22 TCM round, then my interest peaked. I then started looking on the web & saw your tests. I knew then that the 22 TCM was my next purchase. I am very impressed with this pistol & believe if you love guns, the 22 TCM is a must own, at the very least you have to shoot this pistol. Thanks for the vid

[@mimixownzall]

The 5.7 performed the way it was designed to. Penetration is not what you want in a bullet. You want all of the energy to be expended in the flesh of your target. The velocity and the ballistic tip of the 5.7 is what causes it to disintegrate on impact and the reason why there was only 6 grains of bullet found. The other 34 grains were scattered throughout the jug which would mean tearing of organs and massive internal bleeding. The other rounds just mean damage in the path of the bullet. The lower velocity actually helps it maintain its integrity through the jugs. Just watch the mythbusters episode where they test if you only need to be a couple of feet below the water to avoid being fatally hit. The high velocity rounds explode when they hit the water. Even the .50 doesn't go very far, but the lower velocity rounds make it much deeper.

[@Bigshooterist]

I have had several express interest in joining in but Morgan is fast becoming the "Official" voice of the lady shooter for the channel :-)

[@vladmordekeiser1054]

She is so beautiful. I actually got surprised by it. AND I am from Brazil... Not exactly lacking beautiful women here...

[@greedyphx]

The 5.7 did exactly what it was suppost to do, fragmented into pieces to cause more damage with no over penatration. I EDC a fn 5.7 and was alittle sceptical of the round for protection but after watching alot of videos on this caliber I trust it can do what I need it to do. Great video!

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

Great Video ! The 22 TCM is actually a .223 Remington bullet that is shortened. You Know the AR 14 bullet as Joe Biden says! :) So basically you are shooting a rifle bullet in a handgun, that is why the speed is crazy at up to 2100 FPS and almost 400 ftlbs of energy. Its about the same overall power as a 9mm . The +P 9mm rounds have a bit more total power. I would add, Its extremely economical to shoot. Its April 2020 and I just purchased 1200 rounds of nickel plated brand new 40 gr. brass ammo for 329.00 (almost $.27 cents a round) After shooting, I can reload them for about 14 cents! This is even cheaper to reload than my .45 acp and much more lazer like accurate out to about 300 yards or so. Farther than I can shoot a handgun for sure. Also, They make these guns in 8 +1 round single stack or 17 +1 double stack models! So You can now walk around with a 1911 with as many rounds as a Glock in 22 TCM or 9mm! Its extremely easy to rack the slide on these because it takes a low pressure slide spring. So If you have arthritis or a wrist injury this may be your ticket to a semi auto! The recoil is extremely mild so for small framed women or young shooters, this is perfect until they grow into more powerful rounds.

[@deanbenson6879]

Surprised at the penetration of the 22LR!

[@tkarlmann]

I would like to see a .22WMR added.

[@patrickcotter4386]

agreed

[@Aliyah_666]

Why it's just categorically weaker...don't get me wrong I like 22mag but it's no 5.7 or .22 tcm it just doesn't have near the same case capacity

[@zatiboy72]

40grn 22tcm out of a pistol beats 5.7x28 out of a p90?

[@independentthinker8930]

Penetrates level 3 regularly

[@aaronp9835]

500 fps more on the .22tcm

[@MrNiceKnife]

Great video man thanks for taking the time. 22lr for the win!

[@kennethschmidt3721]

Nice video. Would have been interesting if .22 Magnum was added to the mix.

[@82luft49]

But is was, Ken. The second go around after the 5.7 round.

[@ThalamusMinimus]

Why? When 22LR outperforms 5.7x28 AND 22 TCM, you know smething's wrong in the test protocol, so it's worthless anyway.

[@davidcollis4758]

That was .22 LR. Not the same as .22 WMR.

[@ziegenarty6188]

Kenneth Schmidt 22lr didn't out preform. it just moves much slower. slower moving projectiles will go further in water. however it causes much less Hydrostatic damage than the faster moving projectiles.

[@cronos222]

Morgan is a CUTIE pie ! Oh, and the ammo test was great bla bla bla .....

[@cronos222]

So would I and I'm a 46 year old man . Also I wouldn't be even nearly as attractive in torn up jeans ....trust me on that :P

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

Morgan WANTS me! My Probation Officer told me so. Said something like: "She 'WANTS' you to STAY AWAY!" I even got autographed paperwork from the court judge, too, but I'm confused what they are trying to say. LMAO

[@bullheadedgideon1673]

A...MEN! She is SUPER cute lmao I'm surprised the 22lr went further thru the bottles than the TCM & 5.7. Would that be sure to the increased velocity in the latter rounds? Making them tumble quicker???

[@austinhowze6280]

@@bullheadedgideon1673 it's a water thing the harder you hit it the more damage it does a bb gun would out shoot them

[@bullheadedgideon1673]

@@austinhowze6280 Hmm. That's interesting. Thanks for the reply man.

[@ArcMasterArc]

Great video. Keep up the good work. I am a 1911 man and carry one most of the time, but sometimes I carry my Ruger SR22 pistol. I now have even more confidence that a 22 can get the job done with good shot placement.

[@troy9er]

Nice, thanks for posting! I went to a local hardware store the other day, they in the past had TCM guns and ammo. Nothing this time. The guy said ammo has been very hard to come by. He hasn’t had a TCM gun or ammo for months!!!

[@Bigshooterist]

The composition of the projectile is as important as the muzzle velocity. If you look at some of the other tests we did comparing ball ammo to hollowpoints you can see it very clearly. While FMJ ammo retains its weight and shape, slowly releasing energy, hollowpoint and softpoint ammo releases its energy very fast, reducing penetration and creating a MUCH larger primary and secondary wound channel.

[@MrGsteele]

257,350 views - 9 for the ballistics, 257,341 for Morgan. That's reality in showbiz.

[@Bigshooterist]

😆

[@kentwilliams4152]

Thank you for using the correct term of “Hydraulic” and not hydro-static. Also could be called, “Hydro-dynamic.”

[@Bigshooterist]

Thanks for the kind words. I like the .22TCM a lot. The best part of working in this industry is having the ability to stay on top of many of the new offerings. Some are a fad or "flash in the pan" while others are really well received and stick. The 300 AAC Blackout is a good example of the latter category.

[@Bigshooterist]

A good "gel" test would tell much more than the water and this was just a small piece of the entire picture. You are spot on with "energy transfer" that the 22lr lacked and the penetration is important but a very small data point in the overall evaluation. This was not done for "winner vs loser" but just to add information to the overall picture. Great comment. Thanks! - Jeff

[@Tshade67]

7.62x25mm!

[@bmcgraw3840]

Yes!

[@aaronp9835]

Hell ya

[@mikhailsiderman2191]

Very good caliber comparison. Thank you.

[@BuffRANGE]

yeah .22LR and .22WMR penetrate a decent bit in soft tissue because they don't yaw, fragment, tumble, expand so they are poking small holes

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

It's an apples and oranges all the way around. The Hornady Vmax was designed to have extreme expansion/fragmentation, to dump its energy very rapidly. This is why it didn't retain hardly any of its original weight. If they shoot like-for-like projectiles, I think you'd see a very different story unfold. Likewise, ballistics gel tells a much clearer story than a few jugs of water. They were doing they best they could with what they had.

[@BuffRANGE]

Civilian ammo can and does penetrate armor. One civi loading will penetrate 3 level IIIA panels just like SS190 and offer more tissue damage after penetrating than SS190. Energy is only one aspect. Depending on load, the 5.7 available loads have equal and or more energy than common 9mm JHP choices :)

[@KyleAndRyanProgram]

I agree, barrel length matters. For a true test try to keep barrel length as close as possible.

[@1WEEBLE1]

Enjoyed it, but use more Morgan

[@patrickconkright460]

Love the Ted track at the end. Yes please more 😘 more Morgan you 2 are a great looking couple. Just saying. Lol 🤣

[@Bigshooterist]

There are several reasons why the 22 performed like it did. There are a LOT of factors to take into consideration. While it went far, it displaced very little energy. If it were a "gel" test it would be obvious the primary wound channel would be TINY in comparison to the others. It was only added because so many people asked for the comparison.

[@bradleydavis4383]

I'm not sure if you still reply or even read the comments, but I was wondering if you'd ever seen any tests with the .22TCM on drywall? I'm very curious as to how drywall holds up to this round. It seems like it would be good for home defense.

[@Bigshooterist]

+Bradley Davis Great question! Ill do a little homework and see what I can find for data. 👍

[@bradleydavis4383]

Thank you sir, I look forward to anything you can find on it.

[@whylie74]

It's lack of velocity and energy compared to the other two rounds is what helped.

[@daveseel8869]

This is no surprise that water is a bad medium for ballistics comparison. The higher the velocity = less penetration, which is why a sub sonic round is required for shooting effectively under water.

[@BuffRANGE]

well one shot on target with good placement is what's king. I think we all can find those articles of guys who took 20+ rounds of .45 ACP and lived.

[@paulkersey7904]

That .22tcm seems like it has more energy for sure. At least the 1st 2 shots vs eachother

[@xzaviercleric3771]

Hey man, I really love your channel. Your videos are well put together, practical, and informative. Not to mention that your assistant is lovely as well. Keep it up ;)

[@Vydonis]

The original 5.7x28 ammo is military grade +P. The stuff we can get is nowhere near what the reloading you can push on these. I think they also regulate that by making sure the barrels they supply are also not +P standards, so you see lots of blown op five sevens on google pictures.

[@mohammedcohen]

That's a relief, dude...Good stuff as always...thanx. I look foward to each production. Is the .22 TCM anything like the old .224 Boz??? CB in FL

[@DevTheBigManUno]

Water and fluid dynamics... You've got to love it.

[@napamodesto8001]

I would agree. Each round did exactly it it was designed to do. The FN 5.7 and .22 TCM didnt overpenetrate and released most of their energy on the first jug. As for the jacketed .22 LR it penetrated a bit more. What amazes me however is how violent the .22 TCM obliterated the first jug as evidenced by the shooters wet shirt. I suspect it may deliver more energy then the FN5.7 and we need a better comparison test although I wouldnt know exactly how to measure that.

[@jayblueeyez76]

great Job!! A lot of people underestimate the good ole 22 LR... but they can be quite effective at shorter distances!

[@BuffRANGE]

okay I think that's the PD loading. I think the target loading is 1800-1900 IIRC

[@Bigshooterist]

The ammo I have runs through the chrono at @2100fps if memory serves me right. I would have to go back and check the original data.

[@kentawagi]

i carry 22 ruger mark 2 and armscore 22 tcm because i travel alot in a place with gun crazed people area,, replacing my beretta.it doesn't do that much to through in a wind shield when i saw a business man tried to fight back with armed robbers with 9mm it truly suck but good for him that he carry a 357 at that time to shoot a guy behind a tree and injured the culprit.

[@CPHannigan]

This is going to sound stupid, but I only read your original comment at a glance. I thought it said watermelon instead of water. I just thought to myself "Shoot a watermelon with 5.56 and see what happens." I've seen that episode of Mythbusters. It was very interesting. Sorry for my mistake, you're right about slow and heavy doing better in water than fast and light.

[@Bigshooterist]

Thanks much! I learn something every day and enjoy "passing it on" when I can. - Jeff

[@eagleace67]

that's why there is a 22lr sniper rifle used by some military forces and have been a favorite short range silent weapon by militants and hitmen be it pistol or rifle.

[@leapdrive]

Apples to oranges comparison. You used a soft point with the 22TCM vs. a hard point for the 22lr. Naturally the soft point will mushroom and resist deeper penetration.

[@keysersmokey]

Great channel and a great lookin' guest. Subscribed to you both.

[@vfonte218]

The factor with deeper penetration in water has to do with the speed of the projectile. The faster the bullet the more it will break apart. Mythbusters did a test in a pool and a .50 bmg penetrated less then a musket ball in water.

[@GunsNBudder]

I've lived in NH for 2 years now. Morgan is the hottest girl in the state, I think. People are fairly ugly here in general, I've only seen one other female this good looking since I've been here.

[@gdnctr9779]

GunsNBudder Sounds like most of the good looking women in NH are tourists...

[@tribeofbenjamin3404]

GunsNBudder if that chick is the hottest one in NH you've seen you seriously need to move because she is average at best...lol. Here in Atlanta she wouldn't even make a 6

[@garyK.45ACP]

You should move.

[@pepelepewpewpew8573]

Penetration - Morgan ............................

[@threexfromwsg]

LMBO

[@Bigshooterist]

Coming soon. We just completed several tests with 9mm in gel and in a ballistic lab. We also tested the HALO Point ammo with gel.

[@chrischiampo7647]

Nice Shooting Morgan 🔫😎😀👍🏼

[@BuffRANGE]

It's not much different than bottlenect cartridges, just that it's really sensistive to powder charge variances.. The cases are easily prepped with simple green for cleaning because of the polymer coating :) I carry mine everyday IWB :) I have been told I can't use it in IPDA (been told an unfair advantage- umm it's a stock EDC gun), and yeah I don't hunt with pistols :)

[@Cbwilson95]

The accent is killing me

[@RollerCam]

Wicked good, eh?

[@TOBORE8THMAN]

That God awful New England accent...it's as grating on the ear as Vietnamese. But I like his channel so I just deal with it.

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

@@TOBORE8THMAN, agreed. It's like having glass dust in my eyes it is so disturbing! GREATGOBSOFGOOSESHIT!!

[@billerickson806]

Pahk dah cah in dah yahd!

[@davidgomez9759]

Probably from New Hampshire.

[@Carnage88]

The blackout isn't new by any means its what the original M4 was chambered in and tested in.

[@LonghornShootingSports]

:) I was being silly and sarcastic. I own the FsN and use it, regularly. I know the capabilities and was just reiterating what a lot of ignorant people say, online. Thanks for sharing the video!

[@Bigshooterist]

40gr jhp 22TCM and 40gr Ss197SR Hornady VMax 5.7x28mm. Next test will include several loadings in gel for much more data.

[@d10dozerman2]

The 22lr has always been underestimated by a lot of people.

[@sarinhighwind]

Okay. I know the Military 5.7 round will penetrate body armor at pretty good distances. But then, it wouldn't' be fair to compare that with the 22tcm, which I honestly have not heard of. I'll have to look it up.

[@1offjay601]

Also the 5.7x28 ammo is designed to do something totally different

[@scrajet]

5.7 was developed to stay in the target. I dont think this test was thought out.... BUT I wanted to see the comparison:) thumbs up

[@rascal0175]

Please consider adding the old school S&W Model 53 revolver in .22 Remington Jet caliber for comparison. I suggest using an 8 3/8” barrel and original Remington Jet ammo. If you can do it I think you will enjoy the experience.

[@Bigshooterist]

My pleasure. Thanks for the note! - Jeff

[@accounttwo5144]

I think penetration is a bad test for the 5.7, because I've heard that it was specifically designed not to over penetrate.

[@GrOuNdZeRo7777]

Seems the .22LR doesn't want to look out performed! I guess you don't mess with a .22LR at all but the more I see about the .22TCM the more I like it.

[@ap1s2k78]

Awesome muzzle flash on that 1911

[@Bigshooterist]

+AP1 S2K It's a muzzle flash monster! Do a search for "giant fireballs" or "22TCM" on my channel and you'll see videos featuring it. Massive fireballs.

[@madsbs123]

5.7x28 T6B elite ammunition. Best Pistol bullet in the world in my opinion.

[@user-td1zo3tv9p]

Well, like belly buttons and a**holes, we all have opinions, eh?

[@Bigshooterist]

I like the 1911s a lot too. Hard to beat after spending a little time on them. If the magazine capacity were a little higher I think there would be even more 1911 enthusiests.

[@gcanaday1]

I know this is a super old post, but that pistol also comes in a 17rnd double stack version.

[@ChatsworthATVRentals]

Then why did the 22TCM retain most of it's mass?

[@Bigshooterist]

The ballistic gel testing will be more telling than this, but yes, the. 22lr does perform better than most people think. Penetration like this isn't bad but the cavity is small. Good stuff. :-)

[@BuffRANGE]

Yikes that's way too much. They had a shortage, but it's coming back in stock. I generally get it for $18.50/20 a box of 50

[@saintnick8290]

Don’t by the double stack 1911 TCM MAJOR feed issues. Single stack works great. Love the round!

[@Chris090883]

I've never heard of the 22TCM, I noticed you were shooing it from a 1911 Based platform tho. Might have to do some research on that little puppy.

[@Tankerrob]

Excellent video! Shocked at the 1st round recovery location

[@wekker090]

slow rounds do better in water then fast rounds.

[@kevinwalters9143]

The only flaw in the milk jug test is the shape of the jug when hitting the upper half of the jug. I wish all shots would have been placed 2" from the bottom. Shot from a slightly kneeling position as to not go out the bottom.

[@SethWilcox82]

Once again you pointed at the number of videos you have! :)

[@marklibatique4959]

Great demo. real informative . i'm now a subscriber.

[@tmmmedia731]

Dude, please don't hate me, but your the REAL DR. ROBOTNIK!!

[@ajtorres9939]

so comparing a "short" rifle 5.7 to a pistol tcm. not very fair. how about a fiveseven pistol vs that RIA

[@BuffRANGE]

they offer the "slower" 40gr JHP for target and the faster same 40gr for personal defense in the .22 TCM.. Which one was it :)

[@junandan6580]

.22TCM has a very good penetrating power and a very good expansion.

[@Pancho_III]

You'll only find people comparing the sporting round of the 5.7, cause any of the other 5.7 rounds will out perform any pistol cartridge. Look up rounds like the T6B

[@Wysiwyg101]

Great video and great channel with great content. Thanks. Here's my question. If you have a zombie horde in front of you and you fire a round into the forehead of one, will it penetrate enough to go through into the head of a zombie behind it? Or will the density of the first skull prevent that and cause it to tumble around in the zombie's head? Come on now, you know thousands of zombie apocalypse believers want to know...lol. Take care and stay safe and shoot straight.

[@stephaniesantelmann210]

5.7x28mm pistol for me, that’s what I carry daily! SS190 will blow through (5) bullet proof vest at up to 200 meters. Even the SubSonic SB193 traveling at only 1026 FPS will blast through a LEVEL IIIA VEST. the round is locally available, and Gemtech even makes a suppressor for the pistol! The quality of FN’s own Five-SeveN, and PS90 should make this a clear choice. The 5.7 is going to tumble on impact creating extreme trauma, and massive blood loss.

[@playsportfun3356]

It will do if you don't own a 22TCM

[@Bigshooterist]

Check the channel for a few videos relating to bump fire. We have shot a few and they perform quite well. Amazingly well actually! It's nice to have alternatives. :-)

[@ibapa888]

Wow the 22LR out-penetrated the civilian 5.7 and .22 TCM?

[@Bigshooterist]

Definitely. I had to rush this one out while on a crazy print deadline and the sound was low during editing. As soon as I watched the upload I caught that too. :-(. Can't rush and expect great work I guess. Thanks!

[@ChrisPenta]

I reload most of my ammo, but 5.7 isn't something thats known for being an easy reload. Just too expensive for what it offers me. I can't shoot it in competition, the guns are too big to carry, and I can't handgun hunt with it. Its a fine military cartridge, though.

[@jeffwomack5821]

First one of your videos I've seen and I did read some of the comments. Seems everyone is more interested in your accent or Morgan. Apparently people don't understand that different parts of the country have different accents and Morgan is beautiful with a smile to cause many divorces but the video was about a comparison between caliber's and I thought you did a good job demonstrating that. Enough that I am your newest subscriber.

[@Bigshooterist]

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

[@kevinbietry7527]

Is this the only .22tcm vs 5.7 vid on KZbin?

[@Pancho_III]

You'll only find people comparing the sporting round of the 5.7, cause any of the other 5.7 rounds will out perform any pistol cartridge

[@BuffRANGE]

waiting on the .22 TCM gel tests. are you using the practice ammo, or their self defense line? More fair comparison would be using the FSN if you had one