25. Birthpangs!

[@angelakatsapas7894]

I always look forward to the next installment of this series. Thank you brother Gore.

[@josephsummers1148]

I really appreciate these videos and this teaching! Thank you brother Gore! I was Dispensational Premill, but have started seeing this approach as the correct view of eschatology and it is amazing!! Makes so much more sense historically and in context of Scripture. God Bless you Bruce Gore!

[@GoreBruce]

I’m grateful for the feedback. Thank you!

[@LorriesWorld]

Hey Bruce...still relatively new to the bible and wanted to pop in a comment to let you know how much I appreciate your teaching. Some of your historical lessons have been most helpful, and this is my 2nd , but surely not final, time through the apocalypse series

[@GoreBruce]

Thank you!

[@martinhansen5317]

Amazing! Again! Thank you so much - so blessed by your teaching.

[@jeffduncan6126]

All our Sunday morning preachers have been preaching false doctrine .I am so great ful for this man.

[@billiamnotbob]

Don't be so quick to throw around the term 'false doctrine'. There are differing views and there are scholars and teachers who can make the case for each. Do you judge their hearts? I know people who see this differently than I do and they love Jesus and submit to His Lordship. Please be more careful.

[@aktrapper6126]

I really appreciate your preterist approach to this chapter, I'm just now getting a handle on this method of interpretation and I must say it ties a lot of scripture together in a very logical unity. I do however see Israel as being "archtypical" of the world and fallen mankind in general. History has a way of repeating itself and Scripture bears this out. Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. We know at the end of this age Jesus will judge not only "his house" but also the whole world. He will separate the sheep nations from the goat nations, the wheat from the tares, the wise virgins from the foolish ect. I see the judgement of Jerusalem as the fulfillment of a lot of prophecy but I also see it as archtypical of the judgement at the end. I've learned much from you and I know I still have much to learn is I divest myself of the leaven I've received from my previous "dispensation" teachers. Thanks for sharing these teaching. I appreciate them greatly.

[@debblouin]

You wrote this several years ago so I wonder if you have had any subsequent thoughts. You wrote “at the end of this age” but you referenced the verses that specifically applied to Israel at the end of the Mosaic Covenant age. To what age do you think we are in now? I ask because that seems a dispensational comment.

[@aktrapper6126]

@@debblouin Its interesting that you associate the word age with dispensation theology. We are in the time 'age' of the new covenant. The bible does make a distinction of ages but not the seven often associated with dispensation theoloy. It also distinguishes between 3 worlds in 2 Peter chapter 3. To believe that Jesus will come back before the third world begins and seperate the sheep from the goats is not a dispensation doctrine its a Christain doctrine. Its been four years and my memory is being strained here but what I've learned is a lot of scriptures that I originally learned through the lens of dispensation theology as being yet future were fulfilled in the past with the destruction of Jerusalem and the bringing in of a better covenant and the culmination of the old. Danial 9 and Mathew 24 being the prime chapters. Much of Revelation I now see as fulfilled. Not all but much of it. Hope this answers your question. Its been a long journey for me, almost 50 years of learning and unlearning. Its not over yet I'm sure.

[@aktrapper6126]

@@debblouin Another anomaly I have found and actually said myself is "nothing new under the sun". Yet God says "behold I make all things New. So which is it. I'll go with all things new. A new world, a new Covenant, a new creation.

[@TWJfdsa]

thank you

[@rogercastle5242]

I had a thought as you were talking about Saul of Tarsus (Paul) having persecuted the saints. It occurred to me that God's vengeance would come upon the "unrepentant". You mentioned that Saul had persecuted, and had put in prison and killed the saints, starting with Stephen, BEFORE his conversion. This, to me, shows that God will forgive even that if the person truly repents and turns their life over to Christ. Paul is an example of that fact. Could it be possible that Paul was thinking about that very thing when he wrote, "For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"? Our prayers should be, as you said, FOR those who persecute us, that their hearts be softened, and they see the light so that God can be glorified.

[@GoreBruce]

Amen to that! Well said.

[@TK-qu1ht]

Thanx Bruce!

[@tobystewart4403]

Josephus has quite the verbose turn of phrase, for a man of his time. Writing in Greek. About the modern history of Judea. For whomsoever he was writing for. Still, it is well that we have dear Josephus, for otherwise, how could we have been so vividly entertained, all these many years? Thanks Bruce, for a very interesting sermon on a very curious book.

[@irishhomedeemob677]

Amen !

[@frankjackson9821]

Very good job my friend!!!!

[@boycotthell71]

Brother Bruce, I enjoy all of your biblical teachings, particularly the historical settings and context. I, too, take the partial preterist view of eschatology. Question: If this letter was written to the specific 7 churches in Asia Minor, why would the destruction of Jerusalem be important for them to know about (“come out of her my people”)? Why not have a letter specifically written to the church in Jerusalem? Is it because this letter was intended to be circulated throughout, not only the 7 churches of Asia Minor, but also to Jerusalem as well? Thanks for your help.

[@GoreBruce]

Good question. At least three reasons: 1) the letter was written originally to the seven churches of Asia Minor, but it would be common and expected that it would be copied and circulated by 'readers' throughout the Christian world quite rapidly, 2) the fall of Jerusalem shook the entire Roman world, so Christians everywhere needed to understand the nature of the great events, and 3) the persecution and upset connected with the persecution of Christians reached every quarter of the Christian world, so the encouragement was for everyone. In addition, Christians needed to understand that the Christian church was being 'untethered' from Jerusalem, but that God's people in the city, brothers and sisters in Christ, were fully protected by Christ in the process.

[@boycotthell71]

Thanks!

[@CaioLopes1989]

@@boycotthell71 Feasts like the Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles required that Jews from all parts of the world must come to Jerusalem to celebrate (Acts 2:1-12). In Acts 2:9, the province of Asia was included. So there were Jews there. They tried to conquer the naive christians from the 7 churches in the province of Asia through obeying the old covenant. Remember, these Christians were former Jews in Acts 2, 40 years earlier, before their conversion to faith in Jesus! Several Christians fell away from grace in that time because the persuasive persecution by the Jews. The doctrinal challenge was very hard. So these weak Christians would become Jews once again, and now they should obey the Law, and the Law requires their pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Revelation was an warning to those weak Christians. Jesus was saying: Don't go to Jerusalem to celebrate the Jewish Feasts! Or else you will be sorrounded by armies and die to the Romans!

[@glenbsmith1863]

Insightful question, Eric Nixon. Because The Book of Revelation was addressed to seven congregations in Asia Minor, that fact impinges directly on the date of composition. Why seven and why Asia Minor? There were at least ten cities with Christian congregations in Asia minor. The Bible student can only suppose that The Book of Revelation was addressed to only seven of the congregations for symbolic and stylistic purposes. The important question was why was the epistle not sent to the congregations in Jerusalem, Judea, and Galilee that were to experience the war with Rome? This question assumes a date for the composition at the beginning of the war or before A. D. 66. Because these congregation were not listed recipients, it would be acceptable for the Bible student to assume the war with Rome had already begun in Jerusalem, Judea, and Galilee, and many Christians were refugees with other congregations outside the war zone. Christians of the first century expected the impending return of the Lord Jesus. They expected the defeat of Rome and the rule of Christ were to be forth coming. When the return of Christ seemed to be delayed and the Roman armies were victorious, Christians needed some semblance of an explanation, and the Christian refugees required consoling. Whatever the Bible student’s belief about the theme of The Book of Revelation, it has been a proclamation of assurance in times of tribulation to Christians for two thousand years. The evidence for this is that there are more than 2,500 hymns that reference The Book of Revelation and over 500 hymns referencing just chapter 5. Given this background, The Book of Revelation could have been addressed to these seven particular congregations as representative of the places to which Christians refugees went from the war torn Promised Land. Dr. Elaine Pagels has suggested that The Book of Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem to comfort the refugees and Christian congregations. Some explanation should be made as to why the congregations that were to experience war with Rome were not those to whom The Book of Revelation was addressed. Of course, those who find the late date of about A. D. 95 for the composition of The Book of Revelation more believable, they do not have to contend with the question raised by the seven congregations. These congregations were the Christians to whom John had ministered while in the city of Ephesus.

[@thomasarnoldcoe6527]

Great work, mate

[@duaneking273]

Psalms 45:5 Speaks of Christs arrows being sharp in the heart of the kings enemies. Just saw that verse and these lessons are wonderful. Didn’t know if that may help or not.

[@joeregan.]

Its also possible the harm the wheat and the barley but not the oil and the wine is referring to the famine lasting during the spring but not the summer or winter. (Grapes were a summer crop and olives a fall or winter if I remember correctly.). Outside the gates would have plenty of wheat and wine, and inside would not have anything.

[@2010PJS]

Thank you. I always thought that "hurt not the oil and the wine" was declaring protection for the body of Christ, with the oil representing the indwelling/anointing of the Holy Spirit and the wine being the 'new wine' of the New Covenant. Do you think this is a plausible alternative interpretation?

[@GoreBruce]

Certainly!

[@careylou]

I have been binge watching this series! 🎉

[@dcrunicycles]

Thank you. Jesusofnazarethkingofthejews bless you and yours.

[@pfrodigal]

Fantastic!

[@jasonfowler1986]

The biggest catch 22 in the new testament for those that have eyes that want to see. There are two witnesses (of 1 body in the original language) that can cause plagues etc.& if anyone adds to the Book then plagues will be added to them. The HOLY SPIRIT is the inspiration of all scripture so if anything is added to legitimately than the author and the finisher of the faith would be the source of it and whatever you do to the least of HIS brethren then you have done it unto the one who is with us until the end of the age. But though you are crucified with CHRIST still you shall let live maybe even be raised from the dead in three and a half days.

[@Vetforlife]

In regards to the rider on the White Horse with the bow, how can Jesus "being the Lamb", essentially be sending himself as that White Horse rider?

[@GoreBruce]

The same way that God came in judgment against Jerusalem using Nebuchadnezzar. Thanks for your interest!

[@jaquirox6579]

Thank you for this entire series Bruce! Just a note, the title of this one is not following the same format as the rest. It needs the scriptures studied added. :)

[@GoreBruce]

Thank you!

[@jaquirox6579]

@@GoreBruce Of course friend! Your sort of seminar style teachings are really edifying me. I consume large amounts of info quickly, and I’m able to plow through these at a pace perfect for me. Do you have any favorite teachers to recommend me, for after this? I’m a post mil gal, limited at a dispensational church in Montana. I’m really struggling with the dispy perspective in my local body. 🙏🏽♥️

[@GoreBruce]

@@jaquirox6579 You might enjoy the videos in this Playlist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJTLpmBjgLypetk

[@jaquirox6579]

@@GoreBruce Thanks! I’ll look over there too. 🙏🏽

[@jaquirox6579]

@@GoreBruce In that playlist, the first video just has me absolutely captivated!! How have I never seen that before?! It’s only 2 years old and has uncle Doug in it!

[@rickshafer6688]

That is good . 2).The sword as opposed to knife. 1). The archer opposed to Lord. 2). The red horse w/ rider bearing a knife most assuredly denotes sacrifice. 1). The white horse: When has Jesus ( God ), ever shot someone by an arrow, as if from behind an hedge? He faces to face. Thus sword, not archer.

[@rickshafer6688]

Why the first horse white ? Maybe because people expect their governments to work on God's behalf. It's a clean horse, fit with the latest weapons to take out the evil.

[@TheAngelin2000]

you believe in the rapture. if yes, is it pre, post or mid

[@GoreBruce]

I believe in the second coming of Christ in glory at the consummation of human history.

[@johnnilan8240]

Preterist - smeterist -- Jesus has still not come back yet -- unless you are a Jehovah's Witness. Then He lives and reigns in Brooklyn, NY.

[@J.F.331]

You’re assumption is presupposing that the coming mentioned is referring to the Second Coming. This is the folly of Dispensationalism.

[@debblouin]

That is such a scholarly and spiritually mature argument. 🤨

[@tammyhicks1460]

Matthew 6:6

[@SoulSeeker770]

The interpretation herein is a bit of a stretch. It feels like an eisegesis.

[@J-PLeigh8409]

I completely disagree, Mr Gore takes the correct & complete context, exegetically, whether historical, textual, intended audience, literary form, timing of events & most of all uses the Old Test to shine light & interpret the New, in this case, Revelation of Jesus Christ to John to the 7 Churches in 1st cent, primarily events leading to & of 70 A.D. the more you research & study this it is remarkable & I would say a literal futurist view would be eisegesis. I would love to know why you think this tho, if u dont mind discussing, as members of the body of Christ we should be able to discuss scripture or any issues, thanks

[@SoulSeeker770]

Completely agree. There is so much said that isn't in the text!

[@goatboy150]

Yeah I don't buy the, "You're reading it wrong," method with any written text. It's arrogant. Job 38.

[@debblouin]

It might seem that way when it comes against the eisegesis of dispensationalism. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. Funny thing about that phrase: the pot called the kettle black because it saw its own reflection in the metal of the kettle (when kettles were shiny and not bought on Amazon in vibrant pink.)

[@70x7x]

So much left unfulfilled in the first century though. When, in the first century, did the kings of the earth hide themselves in the dens and mountains from the face of the Lord? When did every eye see him and howl, weep, and mourn? Such events should be recorded in secular history. Further, when was the great and mighty earthquake, as had never been since men were on the earth? In Noah's day, the fountains of the deep broke open, mountains arose, continents moved.. an absolutely devastating event. The whole earth was wiped clean of life. When, in the first century was there seismic activity that topped this in scale? The answer can only be, there hasn't been. Nowhere near. Yet. Revelation tells us every mountain and island are moved out of place. From Isaiah we are told the earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, I believe this is describing the same event, and is yet unfulfilled. Please don't take anyone else's opinion on these matters as fact, including mine. Study for yourself. We are warned by Christ to not be caught unaware and unprepared or unexpectant.

[@GoreBruce]

Thanks for that. If you have the patience, I treat all of these questions in subsequent discussions.

[@Shevytruck8]

Please go through and watch some of Bruce scores videos on these subjects you mentioned. He can help you a lot your Flawed interpretation

[@chrisphillips4021]

Jocephous takes an account of everything u just mentioned. Read his historical account. It's a long read but it's all there

[@glenbsmith1863]

You understand these descriptions as literal. They are the same ideas as many Old Testament descriptions that were not fulfilled literally but symbolically represented actual events. Such language is the literary style of apocalyptic language which uses hyperbole/exaggeration as well as fantasy (beasts, dragons, stars falling to the earth, etc.). There are about 600 Old Testament references made in The Book of Revelation. It is necessary to understand how the language was used in the Old Testament to measure its possible meaning when used in the Book of Revelation. What you understand as unfulfilled will never be fulfilled.

[@MattKingsley-zy7dn]

@@chrisphillips4021 It is truly amazing as you read Josephus, how it is the full on narration describing the olivet discourse and the 7 seals and 7 trumpets and 7 bowls. Specifically for that nation and that generation.