25 Foot Long Telescoping Whip Antenna by Chameleon: SS25 - GAME CHANGER - Use, Review & Comparison

[@HOAHamRadio]

UPDATES SINCE VIDEO POSTING: 1) If you missed this, I stated both the 17 and the 25 foot whips were fully extended for all tests 2) Both whips were connected to a CHA Hybrid Micro matching unit for all tests 3) NO turner was used for any of the testing 4) Both WSPR transmitters were transmitting simultaneously through the night, ~ 9PM to 7AM, 12 - 80. Again, no tuning; my WSPR transmitters don't care about SWR 5) I am demonstrating the vertical use of the SS25; there is currently no TDL design or version of this for sale

[@brentOhlookAsnake]

What are your thoughts on using the 25 with the Mill extension by chameleon. I use the SS17 and mil extension, guyed down with the hybrid micro and stake. Works amazing for me. But I’ll be curious how the SS25 with the extra length of the mill extension would work

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@brentOhlookAsnake If you do this, continue with guying it for sure. I have not done this set up, by my expectation would be the SS25 would outperform the SS17 just like it did on my testing ground mounted.

[@brentOhlookAsnake]

@@HOAHamRadio the SS17, extension and micro are as close to a rybacov antenna that I have. The 25’ would probably be amazing with that little extra length. Your video was awesome to see how it did. I think this will Be a huge thing in the portable game soon

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@brentOhlookAsnake Yep, I used the SS25 set up like a rybakov last week. Will take me a bit to get the video up but it was impressive.

[@brentOhlookAsnake]

@@HOAHamRadio that’s great. My first time using the set up I made contacts on all bands from 10 down to 75. Even 60 meters got over a dozen QSOs. I’ll look forward to your video

[@wileytraylor5404]

Gotta respect the data from a man who can master the Pivot table.!!

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes indeed! Pretty much AWESOME! Pivot table master!

[@HOAHamRadio]

LOL, thanks for noticing. The skill comes in quite handy for quick data analytics.

[@danielzdanowicz6899]

Wow!! 25 foot collapsable. Awesome. Thanks for introducing this to the community. I have been a big fan of the 17 footer. Great video Bob. Best 73s Dan K1YPB - On the air since 1962.

[@HOAHamRadio]

1962, the year I was born. You've been on the air 61 years, that is FANTASTIC!

[@BLACKHEAT1028]

Hey Bob, I just got mine along with their stinger permanent kit and used their 5:1 from the IMPAS 2.0 and put that on a tripod and made my first contact. NYC to Brazil a little over 4,050 miles. 17M 18.135

[@HOAHamRadio]

Fantastic! This 25' whip is going to shake things up a bit.

[@nateitkin8279]

Thanks for making the video. I learn a lot from ham videos on YT so I'm glad ops are making them. I'm also a huge fan of Chameleon quality. In a world of junk designed to fail, it's very refreshing. I would much rather buy quality once than to buy junk ten times. Nobody even comes close to Chameleon in terms of quality. All things being equal, of course I would buy the 25' whip but what does the 25' whip offer that the 17' whip doesn't other than extending resonance to 30m and getting another 8' in the air? Not that those things are trivial, but they're prima facie benefits. I suspect that extra 8' (height is might) and access to 30m may account for your differences. A better test would have been to get the 17' whip up another 8' off the ground using a surveying tripod or something like that. Regarding something to compare with, I would like to see the 25' whip compared to a Rybakov 806 vertical because building a Rybakov would be a fraction of the cost even with very high quality components.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for the feedback and perspective. Chameleon engineering, performance, and quality is what sets them apart.

[@gregmihran8616]

For me, this is a GAME CHANGER because the 25' telescoping whip will now provide us a pure HALFWAVE vertical element on 15M through 6M for more gain and lower angle of radiation than a quarterwave! Pair it with your favorite 49:1 transformer (mine is the TennTennas) and you've got an efficient halfwave for POTA activations. I will mount mine on a Chameleon spike with a short PVC 'insulator' between them. Out for delivery today! 😀 73 KJ6ER

[@carlosroig5315]

A half wave on 20m is 33'. It will provide a quarter wavelength up to 30m.

[@tincanblower]

I only work in metric, but surely a half wave for 20m is 33ft?

[@gregmihran8616]

@@tincanblower LOL yes u are correct, I got ahead of myself! 🤣 It is a full halfwave for 15M-6M (which is great). I'll likely insert a short wire to make up for the extra 1.5' for 17M halfwave and perhaps use an 8' wire at an angle for 20M. I love halfwave antennas and this makes it even easier to implement 🙂 73 KJ6ER

[@rogerlafrance6355]

One can use mast section to get to 33 feet for half wave on 20 and quarter wave on forty. On 80 you can't have too much antenna but. horizontal works better on 40 and 80 in most case.

[@gregmihran8616]

@@carlosroig5315 Correct! My brain was thinking 15M as I was typing but my fingers typed 20M (wishful thinking) ... thanks for the heads-up! I edited my comment ☺ 73 KJ6ER

[@jasonjenkins-ferris]

Great vid Bob. Keep up the great work! You are a true asset to the YT Ham community. I wish I could shake your hand some day, but probably won't as I was in the hospital recently and still working on getting back out of the house. grrrr. If I can't make it to the grocery store or Walmart, I'm probably not going to meet you at a ham fest for example. such is life. At least we get this great technology to connect.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Such kind words; thank you so much. Perhaps we will meet on the air someday!

[@jasonjenkins-ferris]

@@HOAHamRadio I hope so!

[@gerardorincon9881]

Thank you for he review. It was excellent. I just purchased one and tested it as well. My tests were all in Phone using an FT-891, I use a Mini transformer (not a micro), use four - 12 foot radials with the spike, and a Mat-30 tuner. I found SWRs around 1.8 through 2.1 across the bands. Most of the band were around 2.0 SWR. The ground has been soak-wet so i don't know if that has impacted the SWRs. I received excellent reception mostly within the US and a few international: France, Brasil, Slovenia, Canada. Received reports of 5/5 - 1700 miles away in the 20 m. band I would say on the average I received reports around 5/4 during the day. I had winds of 10 to 15 mile/hr and the SS25 attached to the CHA spike handled it with no problem. QUESTION: I do not own a Micro transformer, I have a Mini, would it be a difference in performance and SRWs between the Mini and micro?

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for the great feedback! The Micro vrs Mini is really more about the power they can handle. SWR should be very similar.

[@Thunderontheroad]

Perfect timing for the review just ordered mine after I watched you.

[@HOAHamRadio]

I think you're gonna be happy with this! For me, its a no brainer.

[@W6IWN_Radio]

Very thorough video, Bob. I appreciate you taking the time to make and share this!

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for stopping by and offering feedback.

[@DaveW6OOD]

Yeah , I was on the fence waiting for this video and you pushed me off. I'm looking forward to pairing this with the 8' CHA mil EXT for a full size 40m Quarter wave ground mounted antenna....hmmm. That whole CHA MCH document is blowing my mind and hope you do more with that document and this new SS25.

[@HOAHamRadio]

I haven't put the SS25 on the Mil Ext, but its on the list to do. Chameleon is suggesting guying in this use case.

[@DaveW6OOD]

@@HOAHamRadio Yeah...I plan to guy it with the TDL Hub inline and a set of guy cords I built just like what is shown in the CHA MCH doc. ( I will have to use a transformer-less feed point for the 1/4 wave option, like say a CB mirror mount spiked into the ground)

[@DaveW6OOD]

Hey, I just received this SS25. Wow, what a monster. This thing is beefy and looooong. I think the fourth section up is the size of the SS17. I keep my SS17s in a capped 3/4” pvc pipe for protection, this one will need a full 1” tube.

[@W9HJBill]

Hopefully it is more rugged. The 17 footers from my MFJ "Big Ears" have been rock solid. The 17 footer from my Chameleon antenna "pulled out" when setting it up one time (the majority of the antenna from the first segment).

[@mgoben6499]

Same issue with my CHA 17. Tip came off in my hand. Story of my life lol.

[@charleswoods2996]

@@mgoben6499 😆

[@TheTdub]

Try the Alpha antenna on your next purchase, I think their quality is above the Chameleon they use a single piece for their base extension and the rest of their sections are are a bit thicker(more stout) than their competitor's

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

@@TheTdub Suuuurre! LOL

[@shreditfastdotcom]

Have you informed Chameleon folks about this and gotten any help?

[@michael_KD8GIJ]

Interesting analytics and timing. I just ordered mine last Tuesday; it should be here early next week. I also though it was interesting you mentioned the TDL (so the 17' whips are likely to be available for quite a while). I almost ordered two SS25s to use in the TDL configuration (would just need a longer cross-wire, easy enough to make. I may just try it with one SS25 and one SS17, just to see what the results might be). That may be a spring project for me next year. Good video!

[@HOAHamRadio]

Hold on the 25' TDL; I know Chameleon is looking at this option but at the moment the top section will bend too much. I'll be sure to update this on the channel as it develops.

[@MVBriscoVolante]

If CHA do go that route with the SS25 I hope they have a reasonably priced upgrade for the connector wire. While I liked the lazy sloper wire, the price was really oof

[@MrStanwyck]

Great video Bob. I’ve already placed my order for the SS25.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Of course you did @MrStanwyck; you've go an inside track to what's coming from Chameleon. Rumor has it there is another package on the way to me...hmmmmm.

[@MrStanwyck]

@@HOAHamRadio you’re such a tease Bob. LOL 😆

[@ac4fdrandy106]

Great Review and kind of what I would expect on the lower bands. My big question though would be... why does the SS25 outperform the 17 on the higher bands where you admit that you adjust them to the same length? 1 or 2 of them better... OK ... but all 3 makes me think there's something else happening. I think to be fair I would switch locations and run the test again just to be sure there weren't other factors at play. Thanks again for the nice review!

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The main issue with the test that Bob did was due to the VERY poor band conditions and the availability of other stations on the test. The performance of the SS25 will be for sure better on lower frequencies if you set it up where you aren't in a urban area where buildings and structures block your TX. Elevating the SS25 with a CHA MIL EXT can solver that problem tremendously! The SS25 is 50% longer than the SS17 - so if you try to reach 1/2 wave or longer on the higher bands - it will make a BIG difference! Just deploy the right counterpoises and you should be in business!

[@spareiChan]

@@Chameleon_Antenna ""Elevating the SS25 with a CHA MIL EXT can solver that problem tremendously!" That was the first thing that came to my mind was using the CHA MIL EXT to with my Hybrid Micro unun with the SS25 on top and guy it down at the unun. My though was that the CHA MIL EXT could act as the counterpoise to the antenna creating basically a "no-ground plane" vertical (i guess technically an OCF vertical).

[@mikeramsey9747]

I received my CHA SS25 several weeks ago but finally got the opportunity to use it today 9/8. As I was extending the antenna section 3 pulled completely out of section 4. When I inspected the antenna I discovered where section 4 is crimped to hold in section 3 it was split, so section 3 would collapse back down. I'm hoping that Chameleon will just replace the antenna. I have the SS17 and it has worked flawlessly so imagine my disappointment with the SS25 not holding up. Now the challenge is getting in touch with Chameleon.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Well that's not a pleasant experience. Chameleon is known for standing behind their product so I hope your experience from this point is a good one.

[@JamesHindsW5ATJ]

Great video Bob. This does look like a game changer. Thanks, Jim

[@unclemikeyplays]

Were you using a tuner at all with these, or just letting the Hybrid Micro handle the transforms? I would expect a 25' to behave like a random wire and need a tuner!

[@charleswoods2996]

With the CHA MIL transformers, by my experience, you're going to NEED an antenna tuner. KD8EFQ/73

[@HOAHamRadio]

No tuner for the testing. The WSPR transmitters I use 1) don't care about SWR, and 2) because I run WSPR non-stop for 10 hours jumping from 12 to 80, I would have no way to tune with each band change. The WSPR transmitters I use are perfectly suited for this type of testing. If I were transmitting on my 7300, then yes, I would tune for each band that required it.

[@mikepowell5488]

The second I saw this video, I wondered what the delta loop would be like with 2 25's and a longer length of wire. I'll for sure be buying a 25

[@HOAHamRadio]

Use as a vertical for now; hold on the 25' TDL. I know Chameleon is looking at this option but at the moment the top section will bend too much. I'll be sure to update this on the channel as it develops.

[@mikepowell5488]

@HOAHamRadio love the videos ave the knowledge thank you for what you do

[@stellarpod]

As an owner of the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 modular system, I'm interested to see whether people start using the 25' whip in lieu of the Antenna Extension and Mil Whip, as it's much easier to deal with the whip than the two ungainly components that come with the kit. Also, the ability to easily adjust the 25' whip beats the standard MPAs 2.0 components hands down. I've purchased the 25' whip but have not yet had the chance to sub it into my MPAS system. But I have no doubt that I'll be using that whip from now on. As always, thanks much for sharing. Steve

[@HOAHamRadio]

Glad to Steve and thanks for dropping by. I expect this will become the standard is a short period of time.

[@oldsoldier181]

This is my use case as well. I use Chameleon antennas exclusively, and the MPAS 2.0 is my go to vertical when deploying it for field use. I recently picked up a used surveyors tripod, that you can stomp into the ground. I want to use this in my back yard as a semi permanent setup (I live in a condo), where I can clamp the micro to an upright, screw on the whip, and activate. Then, when I go into the field, I can take the spike, and use that, keeping the tripod at home. Thats my ideal way of doing it-just waiting on Chameleon to restock!

[@acepharmer]

Someone is always going to find fault in the way you do something. I have a science background and I appreciate your methodology and efforts to make all things as equal as possible. If they were paying you to do these tests then they could complain. But until then I say kudos sir.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for those kind words. My goal is to show others how they can do practical tests / experiments. Provide an example of the how and others can adapt to their needs and circumstances, and arrive at their own conclusions.

[@joejoslyn7667]

Always good videos. Nicely done. Not a whisper fan yet. but close enough to ft8 for me! Looking forward to them doing a delta loop link wire.

[@HOAHamRadio]

No TDL yet...keep that to the 17' whips for now. Appreciate the kind words.

[@jeffb5781]

This was excellent Bob. Question - If I used an 8' portable mast with the 17' whip, would that give me the same performance as a 25' whip?

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for the compliment. If the 8' mast is not radiating then you just have a 17' antenna 8' in the air; you don't have a 25' radiator. So they would not be equivalent.

[@johnleonardelli_VE3IPS]

A 26 foot wire is a game changer as well but let's wait for longer term durability testing as there are numerous cases of these whips from MFJ and Chameleon falling apart. So yes longer is better but we went through this with telescopic fiberglass mats. A 25 ft whip at 17 ft is more rugged

[@timg5tm941]

Totally agree

[@YllaStar95970]

A nice touch that would set Chameleon apart from all the others, would be the quality, plus resonance marks on the whip. You can get one or the other, but so far you cannot get them both. Everyone wants to spend the least amount of time in the Sun, rain, or snow, and the most amount of time on their radio.👍

[@HOAHamRadio]

You're right about that, "everyone wants to spend the least amount of time in the Sun, rain, or snow, and the most amount of time on their radio"

[@Andrew-yx7sf]

I am definitely getting one !

[@HOAHamRadio]

You should find this a great addition to your kit.

[@charleswoods2996]

My experience with the SS17 telescoping whip as a base station apartment balcony antenna is GREAT! Until it rains and fills up with water, it has to be dismounted, taken down, and drained. KD8EFQ/73

[@HOAHamRadio]

I think that is common with all telescoping whips; at least the ones I've used. My WRC do the same; I didn't have them on the table because they are less than 17' You can heat shrink the joints....but you would only do that for a permanent install; otherwise your constantly cutting off the wrap.

[@WECB640]

Only time will tell if this longer antenna is built strongly enough to not break under the larger stresses that come from a longer length. Particular attention should be focused on the bottom threaded part as these often have their threads destroyed due to the physical vibration of the wind against the antenna. Also how the bottom end is mechanically mounted to the bottom section of SS tubing as this is a mechanical stress point. The amount of overlap between tubes when fully extended will also be a stress point and it may be advisable to not extend each section fully. A good test would be to screw each antenna into a typical mount but in a fully horizontal position, fully extended and then add weight to the far end and measure which one breaks first. I look forward to seeing further testing on the product(s). 73

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The thread at the bottom connectors are made of stainless steel - NOT CHROMED BRASS!

[@WECB640]

@@Chameleon_Antenna Any company that yells at their customer should be ashamed, and any customer that is yelled at by a company should never do business with them. Have a nice day.

[@Kinetic79]

My primary request when doing these tests with antennas so close together is to at least swap their positions halfway through. There will be some directivity created by the proximity of the two radiators; and it will be more pronounced at certain frequencies. But I think we know fairly definitively that longer radiators will work better for DX up to something like 67% of a wavelength, as a result of increased radiation resistance (assuming an equally good impedance match) and enhanced low angle radiation. From a pure radiation resistance standpoint I think a half-wave is the target… but you can still eke out additional distance due to radiation angle as you go longer-up to a point. Tim G5TM illustrated that excellently in a couple of his videos on verticals. … and the nice thing about telescopic, is that you can always back off on the length for high band operation, to get the characteristics that you’re looking for.

[@dougsmith3353]

Thank Bob for a great and very informative video. You certainly did a FB job for those of use wishing to go into POTA operation. 73, de Doug N8HI

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks Doug for the kind words; glad you found this useful.

[@brewer3ddesign757]

Options are good. I would like the SS25 for home use or POTA and reserve the SS17 for travel or SOTA if trying to save some weight.

[@mrkopecky]

I was waiting on your opinion before making a purchase. Thanks. KM4AT

[@HOAHamRadio]

KM4AT, first impression is pretty high! Unless you have a specific reason, for me, its a no brainer when both are ~ the same length collapsed.

[@amham48]

Terrific review. One question, with the 17 beating the 25 in the lowest SNR tests, why would you expect the 25 being the superior antenna with those results as you stated? Or did I misunderstand you?

[@HOAHamRadio]

Because of the overwhelming larger number of contacts made by the SS25; that it didn't have those few now SNR ratings just means those contacts were likely made at a higher SNR. There was really no comparison in this test; hands down the SS25 was superior in performance, which is what we would have expected.

[@benkorbel]

great video @HOAHamRadio thank you. Awesome yet suprising gain and increased contact performace for the extra length. Did you just adjust swr with a coil per band, while keeping it at 25' across the tests? Thanks in advance.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Both full length antennas attached to a Hybrid Micro matching unit, no tuning with length, coil, or radio.

[@benkorbel]

nice, thanks!

[@billmcgee4446]

Did you use radials in the test or just vertical?

[@HOAHamRadio]

Yes, each antenna was set up with one 21' radial. Both were oriented in the same direction.

[@ve2zdx]

I like this whip. I wish they did something with 10 meters long so I could build a vertical for 40m without any sort of transformer or coil. If they put some sections at the bottom and at the top, making it a bit thinner, I think it would work. 73!

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

You can do it with the CHA MIL EXT = 34’

[@MichaelLivesInIdaho]

Get a DX Commander pole and a piece of wire for 1/3 the cost.

[@w4mkh]

Hi Bob. Great review. Was there any unun/balun in the setup you used and did you check the SWR of the two setups? I’m curious if the radio’s built in tuner can handle the SWR. Do you have a link to the pegboard and shelves that you have behind you that holds your HTs? I need to do something like that in my shack.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Would you believe I forgot to measure SWR? I was so eager to get to WSPR I just lost track of it. I have several other projects in play at the moment so it might be some time before I can get back to it...sorry about that. Here is a link to the metal peg board: amzn.to/46w16dO

[@w4mkh]

@@HOAHamRadio LOL. I’m looking for a reasonably priced vertical that doesn’t need mechanical tuning or has lots of radials. I’m not running outside to adjust an antenna when I change bands and I have to keep deer from destroying my antennas.

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@w4mkh I hear you! Several people have commented about adding a coil and getting resonant on a specific band -- I do understand that, but.... I see this as a multiband vertical where I can just sit in my shack, switch bands, and hit the tune button!! If the RF does the work, I don't mind being a little lazy. I think I'm gonna have to bump another test to the front of the line...maybe even this week. I'll let you know.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

If you use the MINI or the MICRO - any internal tuners will work with the S17 or the SS25.

[@HamAround23]

I bought one of these after seeing the review and it gives me some ideas for some different uses. This can be used as a 1/4 wave on 30-6 but i also want to try it out as a 25ft random vertical "rybakov" antenna with a 4:1 unun. Then is can also operate as a halfwave on 15-6 with a 49:1 like kj6er has said.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Experimenting with the new tools available... Fantastic!

[@MVBriscoVolante]

Holy crap I had no idea this was only a teeny bit longer collapsed. I assumed it would have been another foot. Instant buy now, practically a rigid rybakov

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes indeed - with the MINI or MICRO = instant setup!

[@HOAHamRadio]

Bingo!! You get it.

[@JohnMacFarlane-j3f]

Did you use this whip with a loading coil? Have you tried it with a loading coil? As a fan of the 17' whip I was convinced to order the 25' version as a result of your video.

[@HOAHamRadio]

No loading coil or tuning; just fully extended whips attached to Hybrid Mini.

[@craiger953]

I tune a WRC 213” whip for each band above 7 MHz. You indicated that you used the 25’ whip fully extended for all tests. Wouldn’t a tuned resonant vertical be more efficient that the fully extended 25’ whip? You used “as expected” numerous times. I might be missing the point, but why do you expect a 25’ whip, which I’m assuming would be a random length would tune throug a 9:1, have an advantage? Is the advantage that you can fully extend the 25’ whip and use it as a vertical EFRW and not have to tine the length with each band change? Thanks. KC1NE

[@HOAHamRadio]

Yes, the objective is full length on the whip, and rapid switching band to band, by using an unun and tuner if needed. It's about ease and convenience.

[@ppfd]

Have you tried the 60’ sloper wire on the 25 yet? I just picked up the CHA mini 17’ and wire after watching the video you did on it.

[@HOAHamRadio]

I have not; the SS17 has a good bit of flex and I would expect it would increase with the SS25. Perhaps an experiment for another day. You could guy it and pull that off...I'm too lazy to guy my antennas as part of my normal operation : )

[@ThunderWarrior01]

I’m totally new to the Ham Radio hobby and this looks absolutely perfect for me. One question: what else would i require to set it up ie base and connection to radio?

[@HOAHamRadio]

Shoot me an email and we can talk through this: [e-mail] There are sooooo many different ways to go; perhaps I can offer some guidance one I understand more what you use case is.

[@ThunderWarrior01]

@@HOAHamRadio when a get a spare minute or two i will,thank you

[@philippehaake6123]

hello, how do you make when it is windy??? 73 qro HB9GUR

[@Cliff-KI5OPP]

Ordered

[@HOAHamRadio]

Well that was easy : ) Hope your experience matches mine.

[@twissmueller]

Very interesting and thank you for all your awesome work! Another maybe interesting comparison: SS25 vs SS25 + Mil. Ext. 73 DN9LD

[@HOAHamRadio]

That SS25 + Mill Ext...I see that happening some day in the future.

[@w4grw]

Sounds like a great antenna,but like new cars, you always wait for the second model year to work out any bugs.... Bob, any coupon codes for early adopters?

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Not on new products!

[@HOAHamRadio]

I look at this as a mod to the 17' whip...exact same materials and design, with the exception of a beefier all stainless base with the 3/8 X 24.

[@thomascecchino7066]

I live not far from you in Hudson Florida and I have the same HOA issue. I saw you last video with the ridge antenna but my roof doesn't have that. Is there another solution that can be used in doors like the attic or inside the garage. I am new to Florida and had a dipole antenna on my home in New York and that was no problem .I still have it and someone said I can lay i horizontal on my attic floor or hanging horizontal on my garage wall above the door. What do you think?????

[@HOAHamRadio]

Depending on the home construction, attic antennas may be the way to go. I have a few in my attic. The main thing is you cannot have any roof sheeting with radiant barrier; its a metal coating that will kill the signal.

[@stephensussman-fort5786]

What is inside the hybrid micro matching unit? My guess is a ferrite core which introduces loss to improve the match. How about comparing a true quarter-wave vertical with a decent ground system (Faraday fabric, 6 Comet ground wires, etc.) to the performance of what you measured? The big unmentioned advantage of the SS25 is that you can erect a full quarter-wave vertical for 30M.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

It’s a simple 5:1 creatin some sort of a Rybakov antenna!

[@n0hr]

Here's a comparison to test - 20m only head to head 17ft antenna without the Hybrid Micro matching unit - tuned simply for 20m vs the 25ft SS whip with the hybrid micro matching unit vs the 17 ft with the matching unit I'd be interested in the results of that test...

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

It will be possible when will release our CHA BLANK mount to feed the SS17 and SS25 directly. On 20M the SS25 is about 3/8 wave! So performances are going to be great!

[@HOAHamRadio]

That does indeed sound like a great test idea.

[@marcrosen5495]

Bob - maybe I missed this, when comparing the 2 antennas on 20m for example - the 17' is approx 1/4 λ, were you using the Cha Hybrid mini/micro and a tuner? Asking because I usually do 1/4 wave vertical w radials and 25' is approx 1/4 wave for 30m Are you are using a transformer, for effectively an off center fed half wave?

[@HOAHamRadio]

No tuner on any test. Each whip was fully extended, in a CHA Hybrid Micro, 10 hours through the night WSPR testing, automatic band hoping through two separate stand alone WSPR transmitters. Same for the sound / visual check on my 7300; no tuner, same set up on the whips, each fully extended in a CHA Hybrid Micro; that was probably 9ish in the evening.

[@marcrosen5495]

Thanks Bob - it will be interesting to test the hybrid micro setup vs a more efficient setup. I wonder how the hybrid micro config on 20m w 17 or 25' whip compares to a 1/4 vertical w elevated radials or ground radials/faraday cloth ? Or a 40m test with the CHA coil and radials vs the hybrid mini

[@jacobmcblane2950]

It's obvious that if you used these two antennas as quarter wave ground planes, they would perform the same... But have you compared using the 17' as a quarter wave vs the 25' with the matching unit? I run a 17' telescoping whip from China as a quarter wave for portable. It's fantastic, and performs as well as my EFHW antennas, save that the wire is better if I want to work NVIS. I can't see why you would want to use the 17' whip with a matching unit unless you really didn't want to go adjust the whip quickly for the band switch... But is it worth the loss in efficiency? With the G90, it's so easy to just turn on the analyzer and go bring the whip down to where it is resonant. Plus, switching to 40 is just as simple as screwing in-line a loading coil... And I put together the whole kit for less than the Chameleon 17' whip alone! Granted, I expect the build quality on the Chameleon product to be outstanding, and I do not fault them for their prices. I understand the cost of overhead, labor, and quality, and there is value in that.

[@GordonHudson]

24 feet is a 3/8 wavelength on 14 MHz. That length has a very low angle of radiation but the impedance is about 200 ohms so you need an unun to make it work efficiently. Its an interesting idea. GM4SVM

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

With some counterpoises - someone should be able to get the SWR down under 1.5:1 or less.

[@GordonHudson]

@@Chameleon_Antenna Normally a 4:1 unun is used with a 3/8. It makes a very good antenna. People tend to do a 3/4 but that has quite a high angle of radiation and is really big. 3/8 is far better.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The you could use the HYBRID which is a 5:1 UNUN.

[@timg5tm941]

El cheapo LDG 4:1 unun would do the job. Fewer ground radials also required compared with a 1/4 wave.

[@Steven-u5w]

What's the diameter of the Freed is it 3"8 or smaller for a buddy pole?

[@HOAHamRadio]

"...Freed is it 3"8..."?? Not sure what you are asking. If it is the thread diameter / pitch, it is 3/8 X 24

[@Siskiyous6]

How does it look Horizontal? I use a pair of 17s for a portable dipole, extending it the length required for the band. I would like to have it 22 foot per side like the "NorCal" dipoles length. I am building a solid element one for a base rotatable dipole, these would be a lot lighter than the sections of aluminum I have for it now. If I used Verticals I would make a Rybakof using this for a multiband option, that design uses a 25 foot wire.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

You can do it but you’ll need to use the CHA HUB and install the ship with the holes that are located at about 45 degree to prevent the whip to bend down too much.

[@Mtgavin55]

@HOAHamRadio can you still use the CHA Hub Kit w/25' wire on the SS25? I currently do not have the SS17, Both are out of stock at Chameleon. Thanks

[@HOAHamRadio]

If you mean to create a Tactical Delts Loop with two SS25 whips, no. The added lengths of the SS25 make them open to damage if you try to do a TDL (to much stress on them in that configuration). If you mean to collapse two 25 down to the 17 foot size and make the TDL, well I don't know if anyone has tried that...I haven't.

[@Mtgavin55]

@@HOAHamRadio Thanks Bob. I should have listened to the whole video first before asking my question. Great videos by the way. Really enjoy your channel. I'm hamstrung by HOA here in Boise so I feel your pain. But much worse. Stuck down in a Valley. Have to get in the car and drive up to a hill top to TX. 😭

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@Mtgavin55 As if one challenge wasn't enough, you have a double whammy.

[@Mtgavin55]

@@HOAHamRadio Bob you were using the IC-7300 do you think you would obtain the same results vs the IC-705 or does it need that 100W power from the7300? Would you just hook your XPA125B to the 705 to match it?

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@Mtgavin55 How the antenna performs would be exactly the same. The amount of watts is reduced, and, well, one never knows if 10 will get the same job done as 100 until you try. One day it may, the next day it may not. This is more about propagation and band conditions than it is the antenna. Many people use the CHA Hybrid Micro or Mini QRP with success, so I say its worth a try.

[@texasfrontiersman8245]

Now, can you put that 25 foot on top of the CHA Mill whip extension?

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes indeed but you’ll need the CHA UGS to keep everything straight due to wind load.

[@HOAHamRadio]

I'll have to demo that someday when I get some free time....

[@N4GW]

great video

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks for giving it a look N4GW

[@goodoz9942]

Now I have to go check and see if they make a cable kit for the TDL !!

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes we do! We’ve the HUB and the wire.

[@marcrosen5495]

They said the elements are not strong enough to support the wire

[@jackkelley890]

Love to see 2 of the ss25 setup in the Tactical Delta Loop configuration. Also with the ss25 what's was the swr fully extended? Thanks for posting

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

Company told me no.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Ya know, I didn't even check SWR....how could I have missed that opportunity! My WSPR transmitters don't care about SWR so I just went at it.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

It cannot be done yet - we've to experiment with ULTRA light wire suck as 30 gauge or more!

[@christophersmith1155]

if i use a antenna analyzer and get the antenna resonant for 11 meters. around 18 feet 1/2 wave for 11 meters , do i still need to use a balun or unun ?

[@HOAHamRadio]

No balun or unun needed; you can tune the antenna to resonance and be good. I was using a matching unit to be broad banded.

[@haxwithaxe]

Do you stagger the WSPR transmissions or are they simultaneous?

[@HOAHamRadio]

The two WSPR transmitters were operating simultaneously.

[@Bill_WE8D]

Bob what are you using with each set up for counterpoise radials, length and how many ?

[@HOAHamRadio]

I was using one 21' radial on each, both oriented North away from the antenna. I was curious about my 80 meter directionality, so someday in the future I'm going to add 4 radials and see what changes.

[@Bill_WE8D]

I have tried a single 25ft CHA Radial w/ SWR's 1.1 to 1.9 across 10-40, I Tried 5x 25ft CHA Radials and SWR went up to 2.0 to 3.4 10-40. Both set ups used CHA Mini Coil and Spike.

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@Bill_WE8D Radials, oh radials; ya just never know. I was operating at the beach a few months ago and I had to go with ZERO radials to get an acceptable SWR. Go with what works!

[@rec929]

What is that software that pictures contacts in the world map? Thanks in advance

[@HOAHamRadio]

www.wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

[@bitemykrank1970]

Stick one on an 8 foot riser, and your right at the "Mythical" 33 foot vertical, then all you need is 16 x 30 foot radials and you too could try to get a tune inside 20khz of the 160m band.....

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes - exactly! The CHA MIL EXT + CHA SS25 = 34' which is a 1/4 wave on 40M!

[@haxwithaxe]

I really like that you show the measurements. As someone watching on a phone I'd like to see them zoomed in a little, but I realize that might not be practical.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Yeah, I could've said them out loud. I sometimes forget all the different devises people have to use. I don't watch videos on my phone...but that's all my wife uses. She states when its close to her eyes its just like a big screen TV : )

[@adamfunk5812]

I wonder if we could collapse the ss25 to the 17’ length and use it as the other leg of the TDL. I am still a new ham and just got into antenna building and that world so I am looking at the Hub and another SS17 but if the SS25 is only a few more bucks I’d rather have both just for more options.

[@unclemikeyplays]

What I'm more interested to see is if they release a Mega TDL with 2x25' and a longer wire between their tips, and how that performs.

[@HOAHamRadio]

I think I'd shy away from trying to turn two SS25's into 17 footers for a TDL. Since you would be collapsing sections into themselves, I don't envision them flexing as needed when you try to attach the wire. Now, to be fair, I haven't tried it; but that is my educated guess.

[@KS0JD]

It woulld be interesting to see the wind loading between the two as well as the stability. 73

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The SS25 will definitively going to bend more under the wind but testing it for few weeks here in Phoenix Arizona at the beginning of the year without any problems!

[@moga864]

VERY DIFFERENT. Recently, I had to guy the SS25 at about 7' under mind wind conditions that would not have been a concern had I used the SS17. My setup involves mounting either whip at about 4' above ground on a mega tripod mount from WRC. I expect improved performance 60 and 75 meters voice using an inductance coil with the SS25 at over the SS17. Otherwise, for my uses, its not worth the bother to setup until I test and evaluate the whip in the Rybakov configuration later on.

[@puddleduck112]

Trying to operate in 20M. Getting higher SWR 1.8:1 with whip fully extended. Is this within expectations?

[@HOAHamRadio]

The SS25 is not resonant on 20; I was using it with a matching unit (CHA Hybrid Micro) and tuning. Not sure what set up you are using.

[@puddleduck112]

@@HOAHamRadio I’m using the CHA hybrid mini with the permanent stinger kit on a small tripod. What band should it be resonant on? Can’t I change resonance by adjusting height? I also have a chelegance MC750 17’ whip that has markings so you know what height to adjust too for different bands.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Send me an email at [e-mail] and I can provide more detail that will help.

[@ronniet5680]

Still better than a 20, 30, 40 foot pole sticking up in the air. I enjoy the 17 foot stainless pole because it seem to attract less people

[@HOAHamRadio]

Totally agree; the stainless whips disappear into the sky

[@markdeweese9288]

Will these work with supper mp1 antanna

[@HOAHamRadio]

The MP1 coil doesn't have a stop of device to hold it in place. I think the weight of the SS25 would force the coil to "collapse" taking you off frequency.

[@MW-lw8em]

How would two SS25 work in a delta loop configuration.

[@HOAHamRadio]

No TDL yet, Chameleon is testing ways to pull it off; so for now that configuration is relegated to the SS17.

[@corradoQC]

Is there any maximum wind rating for these antenna, I've been looking but didn't find anything.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The unit can handle some serious wind. It will simply bend over.

[@corradoQC]

@@Chameleon_Antenna So it's OK to put it up at 100mph wind ?

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

@@corradoQC That might be too much for just any vertical whip antennas!

[@corradoQC]

@@Chameleon_Antenna I understand, but I'd like to avoid braking my SS17 and would appreciate a ball park figure of what would be considered excessive wind for that antenna. I'd like to avoid the costly experimentation on my end.

[@Aloysius-73]

i wonder if you can use the 25' whip with the CHA MIL EXT 2.0 and the CHA UGS guy kit to make a halfwave antenna on 20m.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Yes you can!

[@Aloysius-73]

@@Chameleon_Antenna Thanks. I just ordered the 25' whip. I'll get the CHA MIL EXT next month and try it.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

@@Aloysius-73 That will create a 34' long vertical! which is 1/4 wave on 40M!

[@Aloysius-73]

@@Chameleon_Antenna It just keeps getting better!!!

[@HOAHamRadio]

...with all this talk, now I'm gonna have to give it a try!

[@W4TRI_Ronny]

Bob do you have a discount code for Chameleon?

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

No discount on new products.

[@W4TRI_Ronny]

@@Chameleon_Antenna I meant in general. I kinda already figured on letting loose of 250.00 ish for the pair of 25s I just ordered. You are changing my mind on this company. Now if they can do the same by getting these here in good shape.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

We don’t have issues with our shipping department. They pack the product VERY WELL! 👍

[@HOAHamRadio]

The SS17 I received was packed incredibly well! Carriers, well, they're as undependable as can be...never know how much abuse they are going to apply.

[@drsysop]

I seen them work well on 10, 11 & 12 meters. -73's

[@HOAHamRadio]

Yep, I was testing through the evening hours; certainly had an impact.

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

I was told you can't make a bigger TDL with these whips.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

At the moment - we can't do a TDL with the SS25. The top section will bend too much.

[@enigmarbs2886]

Time will show, if this antenna is worth the lot of money. I doubt, that a telescopic whip will withstand any greather wind gust, without bending or loosen segments. For me I would prefer an telescopic fiberglass mast, a piece of linked wire for the different bands, an pulley for lift it up and down for band changes. That's quite durable and low on costs.

[@HOAHamRadio]

Tradeoffs abound for sure. Pick what works for your use case / preferences / budget, and be sure to insist on quality materials and craftsmanship.

[@c.a.r.s.carsandrelevantspecs]

Fantastic review! Thank you for this helpful information!!! ~ 73 ~ AC7WH

[@HOAHamRadio]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and the support!

[@chrisnmichelle0218]

I like it, but I'm not changing my game, i like playing pota too much 😊

[@ronniet5680]

Quick, hook it up to the window screen

[@q07906]

Say no more! Sold!

[@HOAHamRadio]

LOL, sorry for making your money disappear!

[@DEKINDY6065]

I get great performance from the 17' and prefer not to have an antenna of this type any higher in the air. If I want to go higher, I would go 33' and fiberglass and guy it. Not excited about this product at all and doubt that it will excite others.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

The SS25 + CHA MIL EXT = 34’. Almost 250 units under 24 hours!

[@HOAHamRadio]

We all get to have our opinions, and on top of that, we have lots of choices; what a time to be an amateur operator! Given this is my highest viewed video in the first 8 hours, ever released, it seems the excitement is quite high.

[@FosterFarmsOk]

if i hook it up to my boombox i could get FM stations states away

[@scottgarvy]

But twice the cost for 8ft. And besides, I bought the SS17 2 weeks ago! 😳

[@HOAHamRadio]

@scottgarvy, your SS17 will definitely serve you well; its been the standard for years. $70 for the SS17, $100 for the SS25, a $30 difference...there will be a long line at the Chameleon checkout for this.

[@scottgarvy]

@HOAHamRadio I paid $49 for mine new + shipping so it is twice as much. The SS17 will work fine for me.

[@HOAHamRadio]

@@scottgarvy wow, that’s a steal!

[@carlosroig5315]

Would like to see two of them as a Tactical Delta Loop.

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

Company said no.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

Currently - a TDL cannot be achieved with the SS25. More testing with ULTRA THIN gauge wire will be required!

[@Sagart999]

And, of course, I just bought an SS17......

[@HOAHamRadio]

Its been an industry standard and will serve you well! No one saw the SS25 coming...paradigm breaker.

[@sk8crk]

roll pin > not a stake

[@KU9L]

My MFJ-1979 does not appear to have that secure bottom pin & after a few heavy winds I have noticed variable connectivity which slightly varies the settings required for an expected VSWR for repeatability. I enjoy this antenna even though I am still sorting out how I do the counterpoises. 20M & up I have great results with using two 48x84" aluminum window screens. Because I only use 1-2 radials for POTA, the window screen on 40M seems to be a wash used there instead. I can't wait to try the SS-25. Cheers, Davey - KU9L

[@HOAHamRadio]

If I'm not mistaken, Chameleon is the only manufacturer to pin the bottom section for a secure attachment. Radials is often the trickiest part, because there are so many variables to take into account. One almost always has to experiment a bit with the location before they arrive at an acceptable operating SWR.

[@Chameleon_Antenna]

@@HOAHamRadio Yes indeed we’re the only company manufacturing and pinning a stainless steel bottom connectors to all our vertical whips!

[@dylanschulz2404]

You could compare it to a $5 piece of wire hanging out of a tree? 🤣 Sorry had to go there. Pretty impressive whip though. Thanks for the video!

[@HOAHamRadio]

Wires or whips, always a question of preference and use case. I too like wire. For those who like the simplicity of a vertical and don't want to have to find a tree....

[@Kinetic79]

Right … if you’re willing to use a tree or your fiberglass pole with a wire on it, you can certainly compete on performance for the price. When a decent piece of speaker wire should be more performant than a stainless steel whip… but the effective gauge on steel tubing helps provide more surface area. But all-in-all, it’s a nice form factor, which is easy to incorporate into existing bits and bobs we already have in our kits (like ground stakes and strong jaw clamps). Thanks Bob & Chameleon - it’s awesome to have choices