.2moa, all day everyday ???

[@brettcleveland6335]

I'm guessing you are probably familiar with Bryan Litz study on rifle precision? Basically from memory if you shoot 1000 yards at a 10 inch plate the difference between a 1 MOA rifle/ammo set up vs a 1/2 MOA set up with all other things equal amounts to less than 5% better hit probability. On paper at least, but the take home message is the same as yours. You have great info for all experience levels on your channel and I'm genuinely surprised you don't have alot more subscribers. Boring old factual information and knowledge gained from experience isn't for everyone I guess.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Brett, and agreed, lol, cheers

[@arkiedave]

Binge watched the "King of Two Miles" videos a few weeks ago. Seeing the difficulties world class shooters had using world class equipment makes your video just common sense.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, just how it is, top to bottom, lol, Cheers

[@peterrobins3708]

I think every firearm I've ever fired is actually more accurate & consistent than I am. Think that's the only precise claim I can make about accuracy :-)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers Peter, thanks

[@fredmetcalf]

That's true for almost everyone.....

[@ourvaluesarewhoweareinadem4093]

Me and my rifle are so amazing that I shoot negative MOA groups. I am so accurate that the bullets seal up the holes in the paper as they go through. I can do this all day, every day, and all night, every night. So when you see me at the range and it appears as if I am just totally missing the target, know that it is the exact opposite that is happening. So just sit back and admire my i^2 inch groups. Great vid as always. You guys are a font of wisdom and knowledge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yes we get it, glad you liked, Cheers and all the best.

[@rob1135]

Hysterical

[@itsascam6125]

You have one of those rifles to?

[@johnsullivan6709]

Ha ha ha i can shoot like that with my eyes shut ha ha

[@TAR3N]

I love how f**king honest you are !!! Dear EVERYONE at the range !!! Take a hint from Mark - your rifle and load may be a laser at 50 yards ... you however, are not !

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers Man, thank you.

[@zl1booker]

i love it.....lol how about this one? ATTENTION EVERYONE AT THE RANGE......You may not care about mirage or temperature or elevation or environment or dare i say YOU'RE human but the bullet does.

[@DakotaDinwoodie]

Haha! Favourite monologue yet. I still save pictures of my tiny little long range groups knowing darn well it was likely 1 good shot and 4 flukes! 😁

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, still got have lots sorted real well to fluke that good, glad you liked, Cheers

[@jamest151]

SPOT ON! I constantly badger my friends to go shoot on the 115+ days here in Arizona. The heat does some crazy things along with the mirage and add some hideous winds... Yet I get the same answers. "Too windy, too hot, I wont hit anything" etc, etc. That's the point of going and learning! So I show the Mark & Sam crew with hideous wind noise behind them while they shoot...... " Oh well they shoot all the time" Your killing me Smalls!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, thanks James, Cheers and all the best.

[@jdirt1982]

I hope there not using rl 26 in that heat jeebus

[@paststeve1]

Thanks Mark! Well said. I have found there are those few whose proclivity to sling bovine scat on conversation better than they can sling lead on target need only to be asked to show proof. That is when one will smell the dung of their tongue. Cheers to you and Sam!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, well said, Cheers and all the best

[@PopShot76]

My gun shoots 0.5 moa.... when it's not shooting 1.1 moa🤷

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Wyo2Wis]

My daughter's ex boyfriend told me he could shoot 1/2" at 500yds with his .300 Win Mag. I asked him how much the group opened up with his second shot. You noted "ex."

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, noted, lol, Cheers

[@williameddy7217]

Thats what i call saying "IT" like it is ..well Spoke. Thanks for the Video

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Will, thanks

[@deathsicon]

I just laugh when you hit 2-3 inch groups at 2500 yards like your ordering lunch, no excitement at all, and here I'm just trying to recreate my 1 inch group at 300 yards

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, we all have the goods ones, glad you liked, Cheers

[@ptm4view]

Thanks! Refreshingly honest and down to earth advise.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Paul, thanks

[@BlueTJay]

For those who gave a thumbs down, either go away or tell Mark and Sam what is it you disagree with! Thanks Mark and Sam, after 52 years of reloading and hunting, i dont waste powder and bullets to prove some dumb point! I love hunting... that is my calling!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Tom, thanks

[@ronaldhendricks3876]

I appreciate the honesty and transparency in your guys videos! I got a Ruger American Predator chambered in .223. Its a $450 rifle with a very budget friendly optic on it. I bought/built it to be a long range trainer and varmint rifle. It works great for those applications. Ive taken it out and printed clover leafs at 100yds. I’ve also taken it out and wanted to put it right back after a few strings of fire. Yes, ammo, conditions and the like all played into it. But when i look back at my notes and results the biggest inconsistency was the loose nut behind the trigger. God bless and I appreciate the content.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Ron, thanks

[@redrock425]

Sounds like people's perception of what matters is the biggest factor. At the end of the day you're firing a bullet through a fluid, chaotic medium, that's definitely not under your control. As you say 3 shots can be a fluke, put 50 down and it'll be a different story!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep.... Cheers

[@nt_wicked_bunch2717]

I always say if a guy spent as much time studying wind as he does at the bench he’d be very well off. Great video as usual sir. And the honesty is greatly appreciated.

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers Man, thanks

[@justanothernoobe]

Stop talking so much bloody common sense! 🤣 It's amazing how easily people will believe the implausible ... usually when it's what they WANT to believe! Good to keep feet planted on terra firma :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Yep, Cheers

[@lmbear]

Great video again. I love the honesty. Everyone on the net is a 1/2 moa shooter. I see it all the time. Funny thing is when I shoot comp and the targets are small, there are only a few that can really prove it. Its the same way at every range and club I visit. Hmmm, those guys need to spend more time on the computer I guess. ha ha... I also like your ideas on the guys that focus too much on SD ES's. I see a lot of that crap too. I do, however, shoot a lot of groups to confirm my rifle is doing its part. The more downrange in that group is also more telling of rifle, shooter and load combination and how they are working together. That especially comes in to play when developing loads. Shoot a minimum of 5 shots per group, because I've seen some fluke 3 shot groups. Then to confirm your load, shoot some 10 shot groups. Never discount fliers if you are getting them. Watch the dispersion of your groups. Are you getting double grouping? You won't see that with 3 shots, it becomes more noticeable with 5 shots on paper. That's an indication you need to play with OAL. Let your rifle and load tell you what you need to do to improve it. I've developed loads this way and later checked sd and es, just for shits and giggles and you guessed it, the numbers were low, but I didn't intentionally focus on SD and ES. Checking velocities was my main concern for input into ballistic calculators for dope and then realize that those calculators are like hand grenades and horse shoes. They only get you in close, you'll have to confirm with real life shooting at those distances... As always, great video. I always appreciate your approach and mechanical minded views.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, agreed and glad you liked, cheers

[@jasonneighbors7162]

Watched a bunch of benchrest guys at my club practicing one day. Some of their guns cost more than my truck. The one thing everyone of those guys have in common. Everyone of them have a “one hole” gun it just “won’t do it today”………lol

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers

[@pijnto]

So true, I set up my budget LR 6.5x55 rifle and went to my friends property there was no wind it was a mild day I managed 3 centirmetre group at 600m everything fell into place, I have not managed to to repeat it yet

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, sure happens, Cheers

[@phil20_20]

My rifle is shooting zero MOA right now. I'm sitting here looking at it.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@jdirt1982]

My grandmas cat once shot a gnats ass at 2.8 miles with a 22lr, but she was George Gardners first cousin........ so I believed it

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep

[@EverydayPeople744]

Absolutely spot on, go out and have fun with what you got, and learn. Beautiful brake you have made btw. Will try it out soon.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, thanks Doug, cheers

[@sonnyburnett2417]

Yes! Sometimes our small mistakes can decrease group size when we pull the bullet the right way. This is far more rare than our mistakes increasing group size, but it can (and does) happen. Nobody else has ever talked about this as far as I've seen.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Sonny, glad you like, Cheers

[@chrissmith2444]

Great video! This is the truth of shooting..... nice to see this kind of transparency without the bullshit..... great job

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Chris, thanks

[@stephenland9361]

People tend to remember their really good days and blissfully forget their bad days. Sometimes everything lines up. Usually they don't. If you shoot twenty groups at 1000 yards, chances are one of them will be fantastic. The other nineteen... not so much. "But my rifle can shoot a two inch group at 1000 yards!" Right... once out of twenty which is to say, it was dumb luck. Your rifle shoots the average of all twenty groups. What matters is how it does day after day after day.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Agreed, thanks Stephen, Cheers man, all the best.

[@santiagopanzardi3482]

I started reloading recently seeking for that perfect load, seating depth, looking for the rifle node, and driving myself crazy. THANK YOU for this video, I snapped out of it. 2 days later had my 1st time at 1000yds and everything I already had work perfectly. Thanks again for all the wisdom you shared with us.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Santiago, glad to have helped. Cheers

[@ericwilliams2317]

Mark, I can never understand why some give your very informative videos a 'thumbs down'. Don't people want to learn from someone who knows what they're on about?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, some folks just have to, always, Cheers

[@communicationiskey-]

Excellent and well shared information.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@mikebarone4902]

Hit the nail on the head on this video mate

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheer mike, thanks

[@bobwiese6128]

Great insight Mark. You are open, honest, and Brilliant!! Thank you for keeping things R E A L. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thank you Bob, glad you liked, Cheers

[@chrisgabbert658]

So holding your mouth just right isn’t a factor 🤷‍♂️

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@chrisgabbert658]

MarkandSam AfterWork 👍 y’all take care 😁

[@drakkondarkblood6638]

Whenever talking about my target rifles and that, I've also responded with, "Well it can definitely shoot a lot better than I can". I've always told new people to the sport that it doesn't matter if you have the best equipment out, if the person behind it can't shoot for crap it's not going to make a difference, so don't go out and spend 10k on equipment and expect to shoot 1 hole grps, get a cheap/second hand rifle and get use to shooting, shoot in conditions before going out and spending that kind of money.. Just last weekend at 600yrds I had a shot that I was like ooooh that's not a good shot and it came up as a centre (just pure luck). Told the coach straight away that it wasn't a good shot, so he could make adjustments (had been raining and flags were wet, made it hard to know how much wind there actually was lol).

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers man, thanks

[@tobiasmeyer2434]

Man, I love this guy so much! xD

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers Tobias, thanks

[@mattfleming86]

That was something discussed in the LE/Mil arena a lot. They get an issue rifle that's 3/4 minute on a GOODw day. Issue ammo. ALL of the fiddly bits are stripped away. Look at some of the record shots and long-shot stories. It will blow your mind. It is ALL about the conditions. A first-round hit is one of the hardest things to do. Most accomplished shooters say the same thing you just said. An accurate rifle can help. Good ammo can help (good bullet MORE so than perfect load.) But the person that can assess the conditions the best os the one making hits. Its 80% Wind, 20% Everything else. Beautiful episode brother. Cheers!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Matt, thanks for that, glad you liked, thanks

[@timothybarry508]

I’m new to shooting beyond 300 yards. My local 300-yard range is very well (too well) protected from wind; environmental effects are pretty minor & learning anything there about accounting for conditions is problematic. My skill in reading conditions at longer ranges (I’ve gone out to 1100) is nonexistent. So, as a newbie, when I shoot and the impact is not where I want it to be at these longer ranges, I don’t know if its my technique, my failure to read conditions, or my load. If I had a laser beam load, I’d place my bet on failure to read conditions. Most of my loads are pretty good but not lasers. Absent a laser, I’m struggling with two simultaneous variables. Component availability (almost none) and sky-high prices complicated the situation. BTW … your bipod shooting technique, even with those high-recoil cartridges, is amazing and inspiring. Love your channel … keep up the exemplary work.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Glad you liked, Tim, Cheers and all the best.

[@Tikka300-]

Mark you are my shooting encyclopaedia mate,,learn so much of your videos keep them coming 👍👍👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man, glad you like em, cheers

[@joshcoffey2567]

Yep, I’ve shot about a 4.5” group out of my very accurate 6.5x55AI at 1136 metres. BUT…… not only were conditions perfect, I still think it was a fluke and I’ll probably never pull that off again. It wasn’t me or the rifle, it’s just how they ended up landing after going that distance. I will qualify that with it is capable of hitting a 10” plate 4 out of 5 shots at 1000metres and hitting that plate on the first shot after knowing my DOPE and holding a little too much for wind on one shot, but again, conditions have also made more shots miss than hit. Learning to read conditions will do more at long range than anything else even if you have all the ducks lined up in a row with rifle setup and ammo load. Sometimes the conditions agree with me and sometimes I suck 😂

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@bootsandall3612]

Thank you sir. Bottom line is, enjoy it!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Sure helps, Cheers

[@janne65olsson]

Finaly some one tell how it is. 🤭👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@CplSkiUSMC]

Getting to a .1 or .2 MOA load/rifle combination eliminates 1 variable. It's an important one, but there are many many other variables that influence your impact at distance. Well said mate. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, as said, but my other point is, no one is getting .2 "average", let alone .1, lol, Cheers

[@bigjeep127]

Love this video. I just got done developing my first load ever, and it was a fun but sometimes frustrating process. I've been watching these F class guys shoot 0.1MOA and thinking "I want to do that". I've shot some really great groups along the way. 0.15MOA was my best (3 shots), and honestly felt like I pulled one lol. I definitely feel like I'm the limiting factor, heck, my heartbeat alone seems to move the reticle about 0.3MOA, maybe more if I just had coffee. So after I got my load worked out I tried it out the next day, and shot around 0.5-0.7MOA (5 shot groups). Not bad, but I thought I had a more accurate gun/load at that point. I think I'm going to reset my expectations to 5 shot ~0.5MOA groups, and not get bent out of shape if I have a bad day. Great video, cheers!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Keep in mind, that those guys also tend to show the best 5% or less, not the rest 95% or more, and yes your new plan will sure help, Cheers

[@willo7734]

All my rifles are 0.25 MOA! (except for the flyers, and the practice groups, and the ones I pulled, and…)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@Lemur70]

Very nice information. Thank you. I've been playing with reloading and target shooting for just a few years. Consider myself very new compared to most. I learn a lot from you and a few others and really appreciate your willing to share information. Love watching you and Sam. Both of you are quite talented. And wow what a spotter Sam is, incredible. Keep on keeping on. 😁

[@markandsamafterwork]

✔✔

[@TheLoveFindersBand]

Absolutely agree. The elements may conspire against you and you'll get flyers, or just as often it works for you. I found that a lot shooting muzzleloaders off hand. You have a great way of presenting and keeping it real.

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man

[@JamesMcClure-l3v]

You’re bang on! Thanks for shedding some light on the reality of shooting well and what’s involved. We all need to be focused on our own consistency, not other peoples “good day’s”.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Agreed, Cheers James

[@paulcox9366]

Learning everything by myself. I'm trying to get a group under 4 inches at 100. I'm sure the gun is fine. Not sure about the ammo as I have only used one type at the moment. But that 4 inches should be good for a double lung shot at 100 or under.....just finding confidence before I take that shot. Thanks again

[@markandsamafterwork]

Great to hear, thanks Paul

[@kentuckyboy9422]

Damn I’m on the wrong page lol, talkin about 1000 yards and getting sub MOA I’m still trying to get that at 100 yards lmao, but in my defense I just started reloading a few weeks ago, still trying to work up a good load that can get sub MOA at 100. If I can hit the target at all at 6-700 I’ll be happy. Shooting a bone stock axis .223 with an Athlon 4x16.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@tommysaulter9171]

I agree with your statement at 7:00-8:00 mark. Nearly all of my best groups are shot by accident... .25 to .5 moa is about average for me. I'm perfectly happy with 7" groups at 1000yds and anything under 1moa past that...!!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Tommy, thanks

[@travisbonnett491]

I 100% agree with Mark about group size, but you have to factor ALL factors, 75% of the errors are on the HUMAN behind the trigger. The biggest thing is having fun, recording what happened, keep your targets, range-find your distances.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Travis, Cheers

[@ridin1314]

I shoot 0 moa groups in all conditions. It’s easy at 1000 1/64’s. Somebody must have been blowing marks inbox up asking why he can’t shoot like him. Rifles are very accurate, humans not so much.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@johnsullivan6709]

Could be wrong ( probably are ) but I've always thought that every rifle ( badly built excepted) is capable of shooting 0 moa. The barrel and action is the only constant ( wear included ) everything else is the variable. Also many thanks for your talks, helping to understand and reduce those variables is much appreciated.

[@markandsamafterwork]

0 moa, maybe a little far, but yes on the same page, Cheers

[@Master...deBater]

My rife finally shot a zero MOA 3 shot group...though I did have 2 flyers about a half inch away!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@jimjones-mz1wh]

Good information as always. Very common sense approach. We all get hung up on going down the rabbit hole into extreme measures thinking that the most minute details in reloading or equipment is what's missing when allot of it doesn't matter. Thanks Mark for the common sense video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Jim, thanks Man

[@andrew13651]

"I forgot to include Coriolis effect on my 100yd grouping - thats why my group sucked today, lol"

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers

[@garytree7729]

"I don't want to be rude, but........" ha ha ha ha....!!! Classic. ...!!!! Great channel this.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@Jeff_Seely]

The points that you are making in this video are completely true and non-abrasive to someone who is honest and realistic. And there are similarities about what I've always said about ELR hunting and how I would never do it on large game. After 400 and 500yards, I start adding factors that I cannot control and I do not feel very good about wounding large game that I will not recover. And those statements, I hope, are not abrasive to anyone but I think they should be considered. Thanks Mark!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thank you Jeff, glad you liked

[@davesnothere.]

My best friend bowls perfect games like it's nothing, Strike after strike in bowling, in a well groomed indoor bowling alley with a $1000 ball. He would not do so well if he tried to bowl on the street.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dave, Cheers

[@markbrook8395]

Thank you for this video. You are absolutely correct with your assessment of this topic. That, my friend, got you a new subscriber.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thank you Mark. Cheers

[@Rico11b]

Funny statement about people discounting a shot from a group and saying the group is smaller. I've seen many videos lately of guys shooting a 10 shot group and they'll have 3 or 4 flyers that opens up the group. Then they say they won't count the flyers and thus they has a .50 moa group when in reality they printed a 1.5 moa group. It just makes me laugh, and have a facepalm moment.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, well, laugh or cry, lol, glad you liked, Cheers

[@tassiehunter7184]

I know exactly where your coming from, I tried all that cartridge work and other bull crap. Turns out it was me and my loose posture. I seemed to always hit higher the more I went out. Fixed by putting some preload on that bitch and keeping it level. That’s my little story

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, cheers Man, thanks

[@juliusjames5577]

I need a .0 MOA rifle. Haven’t found one in 30 years, but the day I do I’m going to be a winning machine.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@liftthrowrepeat9214]

Best Quote Ever! "I'm calling BullScat!"

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@berettasp]

Everytime i hear someone say they shoot .2moa groups all day i say sweet lets go to the range if you shoot a .2 group ill give you $200 ive never given any money away. If you are shooting .2 groups its time to take up bench rest shooting youll do well

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers

[@jeffhill8747]

liked the video.i do a lot of the same thing here i like stealing your ideas some works for me some don’t 1000 yds with a 22 i can but mostly not but have fun trying have a sako trg a1 and a anschutz 22 and both still out shoot me thanks from texas telling everyone to try elr and watch you all

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jeff, Cheers

[@hotchihuahua1546]

Some people are legends in their own minds but we know better . How do I know this you ask …. because in my youth I once thought the same . 😂

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@JamesS.254]

People can be consistent, firearms can be consistent, and ammo can be consistent, but once the bullet leaves the barrel the consistency is gone and it's a different flight every single time.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers

[@VaMike9]

You tell it like it is Mark, I respect that. Keep it up brother.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mike, Cheers

[@samuelcottril525]

You guys should really put together a podcast. I'd listen to every episode.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Sam

[@thecheapshot1065]

I swear someday is I can put bullets on top of bullets all day long and with my gun then other days I just am not feeling it whether it's temperature weather ammo or I'm just not getting behind the gun in the same position that I normally do today was a bad day. Today was the type of day that makes me want to put my long gone away and just shoot pistols for a while at least I playing the steel 8 out of 10 times with the pistol

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@craig243ful]

if your rifle is consistant even if its 1.5 moa just shoot at biger targests you'll learn just as much

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Yep that work, Cheers

[@ericgriffinoutdoorsandmore7584]

My 9yo son centered a bulls eye at 300 yard's the other 3 were 6 inches to the right but he only saw the one. Lol

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Eric

[@guncaine1]

Once again... brilliant observations

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@themountainraven]

I agree, be sensible with really what kind of numbers you see and claim.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, thanks man, Cheers

[@lifewithabe312]

This was a huge eye opener to myself! Thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@gregr3283]

All my rifles shoot better than I do, some days I can catch up.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@aaawman2280]

Mine shots 0 moa, cause it's never under 1 moa lol.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@SnipersGuide2LRS]

😂 Love it! “You Yinn’d, and it Yang’d!😂

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers

[@alexduke5402]

This whole world could benefit from a bit more honesty

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, sure could, Cheers

[@titot2370]

Reminds me of the texas sharp shooter phenomenon in statistics.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep sort of, Cheers

[@briancullen5183]

Well said Mark. Practice, practice , practice.

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers Brian, thanks

[@doomfathertm8771]

The man knows his stuff

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@imadogsass6717]

I don’t see many holes in your argument.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@walterluiz4694]

Perfect.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Walter, thanks

[@chuckd5479]

Great summary. So many people don't understand that. My 338 Edge, shooting 300gr bullets at 2995fps has a 1.5 mrad wind bracket at 2900yds with a 5 to 8 mph full value wind. There is no sub-moa group in this conditions. (At least not intentionally) Thanks for calling BS. Haha.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers chuck, thanks man.

[@fomerbu]

This is a hard truth all shooters need to know

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Fred, Cheers

[@anthonykhalil70]

Wise words. We blame equipment more than ourselves.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, sure a big part, Cheers

[@jeanclaudelacrotte6473]

It depends on your gear and how steady is your position. I know some people at the range always blaming themselves for bad results, it doesn't help neither. If your ignore when your gear isnt enough accurate (rifle, barrel, load), you just can't identify your faults so there's no way to improve.

[@loadmastergod1961]

I find it fun to chase the itty bitty groups, but I won't likely do it again after burning thru a barrel in 10 months back when supplies were available. I am happy with the way my .8moa load shots in my 6gt with only 1 competition on it so far. Doubled my average points but learned I need to really learn wind MUCH better. Thanks again for your bountiful knowledge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@jeffnaylor8894]

Well said Mark. I put 600 rnds through a 284 I built chasing the small group. A Mauser action with an inexpensive scope. I've hit at a mile a couple times. I just go shoot and have fun. It is a . 5 moa rifle on a good day. Wind is the biggest challenge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, thanks Jeff Cheers

[@DanielBoone337]

The absolute best group I've ever shot was a .15" group and oddly enough the SD I got during that string of fire was 38fps and a pretty high ES and I've shot horrible groups with single digit SD/ES.... Reloading and shooting is weird sometimes... LOL Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes that is how it can be, glad you liked, Cheers

[@kencrowe1965]

Fantastic Video!!! Really needed to see this! Sometimes being on forums or seeing all the stuff on youtube and endless amounts of information on the internet, I wonder how we EVER were shooters before. That's why I love your channel, because you explain things like they really are. Do I shoot as well as I did 40 years ago, no. But, I still do ok. They've been days where I could shoot a 3-shot group from a .300 Weatherby and cover the group with a dime. Then there have been days that I couldn't get a 30-06 to group less than 1.5", all at 100 yds. There are so many factors that go into each trip to the range, it's not always the equipment. But my 30-06 shoots better then 1.5" and my .300 Weatherby doesn't shoot that good all the time, my shoulder won't allow that, lol!!! Great information as always, Thank You!!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Ken, thanks

[@MrRanggong]

Dang, I love how you wade into the fray when you sense too much BS being spread around. Excellent points. You have freed me from spending all day at my loading bench trying to craft the perfect round for 10 minutes worth of shooting trying for a 1/4" group while my Kestrel Elite with AB lies in a drawer unused.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chaz, glad you like them and even better if they help, Cheers

[@K3Flyguy]

Everybody's all John Wayne and gangsta until, the wind changes, or the distance changes, or the barrel warms up, or the cartridge sits in the sun, there's a million reasons bullets don't go in the same hole all the time. Just dump $$$$$$$ into your rig and all will be fine! Lolol Honestly though your video really was refreshingly right on target, thanks for you sincere analogy of the subject!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mike, glad you liked, cheers

[@Happy-Trails-To-You]

That was excellent Mark. My friend and I consistently shoot sub MOA at 600 yards (except for flyers :-) and we feel like we must do better before we shoot out at 1000+ yards. After watching this video, I am satisfied with my occasional 1/2 MOA group at 600 yards and it is time to move out. I shoot factory loads and a Tikka precision rifle. My scope is modest. Achieving perfection as 600 yards is no longer my "aim". I want to go the distance. Hearing this from you has so much meaning.Thank you for that candid video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Gary, thanks

[@grosminetytp5520]

Hello, I have 2 Tikkas for years. I think the average is around 0.4 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yds ; this is an average with the best loads, so sometimes a bit more or less. It's a good start for this kind of rifle, but I don't expect to get its accuracy at long range for the reasons that you told. I just consider it as the rifle's potential accuracy. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@sf2189]

So on the on the money!! I have a ,2 MOA rifle and load. All that means is that in 3-5 shot groups when the conditions are the same, the harmonics are good and I can be confident that I’m the one thats messing and not that the rifle is bad. I’m a sub MOA shooter, that means that when we use the law of large numbers and shoot more than 27 rounds, my point of impact is within 1 MOA of my point of aim 67% of the time (sub 1 MOA SD). However, my ES spread is going to 3 MOA 99% of the time (3 SDs). I have seen this time and time again when measuring large strings of fire (which by the way should be measured in impact distance because the labradar velocities arent always right). Like you say, to an extent, ES and SD are useless because in 30-60 rounds shot, those conditions change, from how you shoot the rifle to the environmental impact. Additionally, when I see an ES of less than 3x the SD that just tells me there arent enough shots fired to let the statistics work out as they should; it also tells you that its futile exercise because once the conditions change so does the experiment. Its kind of freeing to know this because once you confirm your gun shoots, you just focus on hitting targets and getting better at it. Love your channel, learned to properly shoot a bi-pod from your instructions.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks for the brake down, glad you liked video, cheers

[@fisherus]

Hah, how right you are, Mark. If you want to hear some of the biggest lies ever told, just listen to some shooters brag about how tight of groups their rifles shoot. I soon found that the biggest hindrance in shooting ELR was the inability of having enough adjustment for range, even though I had machined a 60 MOA rail I had mounted on my rifle. Now, to watch you adjust over 300 MOA for a shot makes my mouth water. You have advanced this sport remarkably well with the knowledge you have learned and I applaud you for what you are doing and have done. My only wish is that I was years younger to take advantage of your efforts and hopefully further advance this sport I have been involved with for the past 20 some odd years.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Craig, yes being able to dial as far as we can now sure makes this work better, glad you liked the video, all the best man, Cheers

[@treece1]

People want a better cold bore long range zero. Most of people I know don't even understand cold bore

[@br4713]

It's more often a "clean bore" problem than "cold bore". It depends on the barrels, on one of my rifles I noticed that the first bullet after cleaning was always about 60fps slower than the others (almost always a different POI for this first bullet).

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, Cheers

[@devinb3397]

As long as a gun can shoot under moa consistently id say it’s all sweet. That’s plenty enough for most people. That’s a 12 inch circle at 1000m if you hold dead on.. once you get into hunting and add breathing, wind, heartrate and a freehand, you’re lucky to shoot 10moa at 100m

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers