#3. I’m a Writer with ‘No Imagination’ aka APHANTASIA

[@jessieartsdaily]

This is such a helpful topic for me! I think I have this. When I try to picture the apple or the table I know what they are, but I can't close my eyes and see them. I just think the word 'apple' or 'table'. I have a hard time with descriptions of rooms and my characters. I usually have to find a picture to look at (mood boards are a saving grace). My only exception is when I'm asleep. I have extremely vivid dreams. They're so "real" that I sometimes double-check with myself or others to ensure something I dreamed didn't really happen. Many of the stories I think of come from my dreams, but when I wake it's like something switches off and I can't "see" in my mind anymore. I love to draw, but I can't 'visualize' what a piece will look like. Your words have made me feel less alone and more confident that I can still accomplish this thing that I love - writing. Thank you.

[@lynndjung]

OMG I also used to have really frequent vivid dreams that fed into my writing, but I haven't dreamt very much lately and when I do it's just boring scenarios about my life haha. It's so weird how that switch shifts into place, I remember having a dream once where everything was rendered in watercolors but when I woke up, all I had in my head was the concept of watercolors?? So weird. I'm glad I could make you feel less alone!! Thank you for watching :)

[@minahl5167]

I have aphantasia. I have a few writer friends and they all have very vivid imaginations and see their stories as movies in their heads. I've always been very jealous of this. I used to be able to visualize as a child but lost the ability by the time I reached adulthood, probably because I developed a dissociative disorder in that time, though there's no way of knowing. I can still see color, I just can't see shapes or details or several colors at once. If I think of a polar bear I see the color white but I can't see the bear. If I think of trees I see the color green but I can't see the leaves. I used to write fantasy as a child but since I can't visualize anymore I've lost interest in world-building and character design. I still love magic realism and short sci-fi stories, but I think that has more to do with allegories, metaphors, symbolism etc. I have a constant inner monologue. I would love to experience having no thoughts / no monologue for a minute!

[@lynndjung]

that's so interesting that you lost it over time and the bit about color-reminds me of my thing with movement, just the vague impressions of visuals. I still love worldbuilding and character design even without visualization-I hope you're able to find your way back to fantasy someday if that's something you want!! It's so weird because I definitely have thoughts they just aren't... articulated in the way I would think an inner monologue is!! but my mind is usually racing with lists and plans and Big Concepts and ideas lol so it still is a bother

[@LiteraryStoner]

Makes sense to me, I also have aphantasia and i'm a writer to! I hate the term "no imagination". I have an imagination, it's just different from those without aphantasia. Different methods of thought, yes! And I think that's a beautiful part of life, our different ways of thinking are all needed in some way. It'd be an awful world if we all thought exactly the same. And awfully boring. I'm also autistic and adhd, so link or no link it fits me personally. I skip a lot of description in my rough drafts. It's not that I can't do description but it takes me more effort and thought so in order to get the story down I skip most of the description in the rough draft. I'm very character-driven though. I think we all have strengths and weaknesses. :) I don't audibly hear my thoughts at all. I can think in silent words, or as like a concept I guess, abstract, just know what i'm thinking of. It's hard to describe but some thoughts just...are, where as I can also think in words I just don't literally hear the words in my head, so, silent words.

[@laurenct]

wowow i’m so late but this discussion on aphantasia was SO fascinating,,,i feel like i see concepts or ideas in my writing, like fragments of a scene or singled-out vibes (i.e it’s raining, they’re smiling at each other and the lights reflecting from their eyes) but the wider details are vague and blurry…i WISH i could see the atmosphere of a scene so clearly in my head like that, but often it’s just not a Thing that happens so i get that visualization aspect!!! this was such a good episode ughh

[@lynndjung]

thank you!! it never fails to fascinate me to hear about all the different ways we think, I also think I'm very much a vibes-based writer and the big picture is hard, but when I read I also tend to resonate with more interesting and close-up details if that makes sense so I dont think that's a bad thing!! ty for watching

[@mhjmakes3631]

Aphantasia is very fascinating to me, because for me, visualizing things is like wearing a VR helmet equipped with touch and smell sensors. It's like I'm practically transported to whatever world that I'm visualizing. I've sent chills down my spine, imagining drifting to the bottom of the ocean, forgetting that it's all just a vision in my head. ...that still hasn't stopped me from having the worst "white room syndrome" known to man though. 😬 I don't know why, but I just do not like writing lengthy descriptions for things, and when I'm reading something, and the author goes into extensive sensory detail describing the scene, my brain kind of just tunes it out. Then I catch myself zoning out and try to re-read it...only for me to do the same thing again. Rinse and repeat, and maybe by the 5th time or so, I've finally internalized what was written. Haha (On a side note, in recent years I've transitioned to writing in a more screenplay style, and I think it's partially because lengthy descriptions like that are generally a no-no for those.)

[@lynndjung]

That is so interesting and such a good description of how you experience your thoughts! that makes sense, like visualization doesn't necessarily translate smoothly into words (and vice versa)... especially with such a complete picture in your mind with so many details and sensations. I totally get what you mean, and thank you for sharing!!

[@KrisMF]

omg I'm so glad you covered this topic!! I remember when we were talking about this before and I just couldn't wrap my head around it at first because I'm a writer that literally sees a whole ass TV show series in my head and it's so integral to how I write. I love learning about how writers approach their craft and I loved this episode so much !!

[@lynndjung]

THANK YOU that conversation definitely inspired this ep a lot LOL. It's so fascinating and cool that you can see it play out like a show or movie haha do you think you'd ever experiment with a more visual form of storytelling?? YES oh my gosh I remember that tweet. Totally agree 100%, we all bring something different and unique to the table and i love that about writing and other individual art forms.

[@KrisMF]

@@lynndjung omgggg i would love to be involved in the screenplay adaptations of my books like that is my PIPE DREAM . i see cold opens of episodes in my head,, im not even kidding aldnnfkgng

[@shebreathesingold8043]

Wow. It's so interesting that you have aphantasia and almost no inner monologue. I wish I could trade my inner monlogue for being able to see visuals because my ADHD causes my inner monologue to be nonstop and its hard to turn off at night. I'd much rather have quiet visuals.

[@lynndjung]

honestly i don't even know if i can say either of things with an degree of certainty because it's so hard to gauge how my thoughts are processed differently from others because they just... are lol. that does sound annoying though!! i wonder if vivid visualizations can be disruptive like that

[@futurestoryteller]

I recall when I was very little I used to associate words and images at all times. Like those "A for apples" things, or a 2010's KZbin video. Eventually my brain became over-reliant on language and I've always partially attibuted this to my reduced imagination in adulthood. Personally

[@halixmm]

All the comments here are so interesting omg. I have ADHD, heavy inner monologue, and visual imagination. 2 days ago my friend and I were talking about how with ADHD your brain does not shut up Ever. I brought up the inner monologue thing, how we are beginning to understand different thought processes more as we (humanity, or at least people that use the internet) have these conversations about inner monologue. I cannot conceive of the idea of not having inner monologue, though I can conceive of the idea of not having visual imagination. Sometimes I feel like I don't have the best imagination or creativity, despite being a visual artist and writer. And @futurestoryteller I feel like I relate to that on some level... I often see words spelled out when thinking about the word, through image or just the audio of the word, spoken by myself or others.

[@charleeraewrites]

This is so interesting. It's so hard to imagine what it would be like to not be able to picture things/hear your thoughts. Obviously, people without an internal monologue have thoughts but what is that REALLY like? It's difficult to wrap my mind around. Fellow ADHDer here: I do NOT have aphantasia. On John Greene's scale I would be a 1. I also have an internal monologue (count yourself blessed because it's annoying and at least for me does not have any impact on me not making stupid decisions). When I get a story idea it always comes to me first as an image and then turns into a "movie" of sorts. I see the words I think but I can hear my thoughts too.

[@lynndjung]

ikr it's so hard to conceptualize, but I also love the angle that brings to us as writers-we're just trying our best to convey what's in our head and that can be interpreted and picked up in different ways by readers with different methods of thought, and that's so cool! A good friend of mine who also has ADHD is an INCREDIBLE visual artist and thinks it's so weird I can't see images lol so I think that link is shaky at best. ty for watching!!

[@TakeBackOurCountry-RFKJ24]

Hello! Thanks for posting this! I have aphantasia and I don't see people talking about being a writer with it at all. I personally am also a 5 (no visuals at all) while conscious. I can sometimes visually dream but once I wake up the visuals disappear very quickly and it's more like a story I'm retelling. It's the same with general memory recall, my memories are not visual, they're stored as stories with no pictures. I think in words. I don't narrate everything I'm doing but there is a voice when I write, read, or think to myself. I don't have conversations with myself, the voice is just me. When it comes to visuals and writing I have concepts and references in my mind. So when you gave the table and bowl example I can't see it, but as you asked questions I went with the first word that popped up, like word association. So I can't see the bowl, but as soon as you asked what color the bowl was the word blue immediately popped up. Where is the bowl? "In the middle". So for me, I can't see the images in my head like a movie as some writers do I'm just making 1000000 rapid-fire decisions when writing. Which can lead to some fatigue because I do have to consciously select every detail about an image I'm trying to create. Which often also leads me to lean into symbolism more than my friends. I do think that my lack of visualizing does cause me as a writer to focus more on interiority. I write a lot about my characters thoughts and feelings. I also find that my thinking in words sometimes lead to focusing more on dialogue (which I think is a strength of mine) and senses other than sight. It does cause issues with layouts in novels, like being able to understand where people are and where they're moving in space. Playlist, vision boards, and drawing floorplans or whatever I need to "visualize" are all helpful for me as a writer with aphantasia. I've found it also creates some spacial issues because I can't always conceptualize how big something...or like if all my furniture will fit in a room. I'm definitely a hands on learner paired with lecture. So talking me through something as I do it is the best for me.

[@PsychOnlineAldrian]

I like your explanation of the Problem of Other Minds. I am extremely good at face recognition and my spouse and kids not so much. I think we just have to be okay with differences. And we all have strengths in writing. Mine is dialogue. But no judgment. Thanks for sharing.

[@kellyebrown3758]

I have aphantasia. There is nothing but blank, black screen when I close my eyes and try to visualize anything. I do have a constant inner dialogue though--it never stops. I have horrible insomnia at night because it's nearly impossible to turn it off...for those trying to imagine what it would be like, think of it like you are in a meeting room with 50 other people and everyone is mingling, so you're going around the room having all these little conversations and hearing everyone else converse in the background. There's a constant background hum of dialogue going along with the main inner dialogue of thoughts. I can't see movement like you...that's really cool...I have to actually get up and move around the way I'm trying to describe in order to think through the movements. I will say that it's made things very easy for me with using words, because I'm used to having to verbally describe details in my mind, so I've found that I can give really detailed descriptions of things, but it makes the editing process very difficult because I have the problem of giving too much detail and too much backstory in doing so.

[@tstraus4129]

I found this discussion really interesting. I was diagnosed later in life with ADHD, and I have been suspecting I may have aphantasia as well. I understand your idea of visualizing motion. I don't see it but I feel like I'm watching something, if that makes sense? Internal monologue VS inner speech, I can "hear" when I'm reading or writing but if I was bored I would feel it, not have my thoughts say "I'm bored". Or if I notice it's getting late and I should start going to bed. I would think, it's getting late I should start going to bed as a concept not "I should go to bed, it's getting late, I have work in 6 hours..." or anything like that. Anyways, I found you to be super relatable haha.

[@lynndjung]

In regards to the visualization of motion still not feeling like I'm watching something: yes!! It's still not something I 'see,' it's closer to something I can feel, but isn't even that. The mind is so weird. ty for watching!!

[@markmuller7962]

1:09 That's very fascinating, I guess the human brain is very powerful no matter what you do with it

[@ajcrwley]

I would love for a future video topic to be outlining, or the general zero draft for some! It would also be a cool guest episode because you can compare the way you outline. Also - mechanical keyboards make all the difference. HIGHLY recommend Akko -- that's where mine is from and it's the BEST.

[@lynndjung]

That's a fantastic idea!! I'll definitely put that on the roster

[@billyalarie929]

THIS VIDEO IS CHANGING MY MF LIFE. The idea that it is something of a boon and advantage to think with words first in order to get an idea of a visual across in a novel (ESPECIALLY BC IT IS A TEXT-BASED MEDIUM LIKE HELLO???) is VERY relieving because, to me, you can talk about a spooky house and it can either be akin to a free kindle book of the day, digestible in one sitting, OR it can be a symbol of sooooooo many different themes and discussions, and you have to decide that with words. Because you can only DO that, make that decision, with words. You can describe using the language of themes. I think it’s often way too on the nose to be fully descriptive, evoking a literal picture in your reader’s mind.

[@billyalarie929]

ALSO YOUR POINT ON ACTION BEATS/DESCRIPTIONS OF MOVEMENTS OH WOW OH WOW WOW WOW

[@lynndjung]

LOL thank you for watching!! Yes absolutely, there is sooo much more to making an image significant to a story than just... describing it lol. I definitely use more abstract language when describing characters in particular, focusing more on their body language and personality traits and I bet that comes from having aphantasia!!

[@lydiabell7304]

Your discussion about aphantasia is so interesting, thank you for sharing!! I also read Chlorine last year and whilst it wasn't a solid fave, it really stuck with me!

[@lynndjung]

Thank you for watching!! RIGHT it's so interesting because I truly could not tell you if I enjoyed the reading experience or not... but it definitely was a memorable one in a way a book hasn't been in a long time?? Which is kind of awesome in its own way!!

[@lydiabell7304]

@@lynndjung Yeah!!! I agree, I think that if a book takes a while to figure out and is also memorable at the same time then it's done part of it's job at least! I wasn't too keen on how it ended but I read it by the pool in Greece and the vibes did match I gotta say 🤣

[@scatteredperceptions890]

Interesting discussion ❤ I relate to a lot of your strengths and weaknesses in writing but I can visualise and have an internal monologue

[@idleglow]

Thank you for this video! I always had problem with imagining scenes for writing them, especially when a lot of details are needed, but I just thought I lacked the knowledge. I didn't even realise usual people can imagine whole movies in their head with perfect images and lots of detals But it seems like everyone is experiencing aphantasia differently? Bc for me it's different from what your described - I do see some images in my mind but they're all abstract and not 100% copies of real life photos or pictures. For example I can imagine a person but I won't really see their face and they're gonna be like covered in a shadow But I can't see their clothes so to think of them I imagine different picture of the clothes, but again not a detailed one, just an abstract image. Interestingly, it's 100% the same for my dreams. I don't see faces, just the figure in shadow, and I just who it is bc I know that, but not becasuse I actually see them Also interesting fact, my twin also has the same thing, so I wonder if it's inborn or something we develop during our lifetime

[@LaurelMoring]

How am I just now realizing that I too am a writer with aphantasia? I do have a strong, non-stop inner monologue, however. Your points on fine art also make me wonder if one of my kiddos has it as well. He is a talented artist, but has a really hard time doing anything “from his brain”, as opposed to having instructions, or at least a reference image to work from. I thought we needed to better nurture his creativity, but maybe he just can’t picture things in his brain. Definitely going to investigate this further! Thanks so much for talking about this, I am definitely going to keep it in mind when trying to describe things in my writing.

[@kelleyiswriting]

I loved this episode!! And yes mechnical keyboards FTW HEHE. Your answers were all great to those writing woes, I stand by all of them!! I don't know how I visualize tbh whenever I play pictionary, my drawings always come out horrendous because, for the longest time, I thought I couldn't visualize very well. (I drew a spoon once and someone thought it was a spade, and a knife turned out to be a trident LOL) I feel like reading and writing is really different for me but I can't articulate it that well either. Thanks for spreading more awareness on this topic but also emphasizing that writing is 100% STILL possible with aphantasia

[@lynndjung]

I want one so bad it's not even funny lol. It's so interesting how a few people have said their ability to visualize changed in some way over time, like wow the human brain is so weird?? Thank you Kelley

[@MsWOCReader]

If I'm lucky I can see scenery while reading but never faces! I find I do have to work a little harder writing descriptions just because my mind isn't wired to see the scenes so clearly.

[@lynndjung]

That is so interesting!! Maybe it has to do with the level of detail?? I love hearing how different people's thoughts work!

[@markmuller7962]

The scientific communication is beginnings to identify Aphantasia as a memory disorder

[@vikillustrations]

soo I have the opposite, where I have a very vivid imagination, to the point it can overlay my actual eye sight at times... it does an odd thing to writing tho. I can see the image clearly in my head, but I cannot put it to words properly. My descriptions of setting are meh at best, and action is just odd. That is why my writing is very dialogue driven, because that is something I am good at. But the stuff in between? Not so much. That is why I often actually have to draw and sketch out my scenes after, or inlude illustrations in the manuscript. Also despite being an artist, I have hard time visualizing faces with any sort of clarity, without a fuzz around them

[@futurestoryteller]

I don't understand how aphantasia can be a thing. They say everybody dreams (they can analyze what happens in the brain while you sleep) even if they can't remember it when they wake up. (Rapid memory loss of dreams upon waking is very common anyway, and progresses pretty much throughout the day.) This seems to suggest that a person's brain conjures vivid images in their sleep, but can't even manage to call up a vague heat mirage from waking. Very weird.

[@lynndjung]

YES I think I actually do have visuals while I dream, but I can never hold onto them once I'm fully awake. It is so weird!! The human brain is funky

[@TakeBackOurCountry-RFKJ24]

This is me. I have visuals when I dream but nothing when I'm awake. It also stinks because I can't visually recall memories either, they're stored as stories. No pictures.

[@markmuller7962]

There's no connection between Aphantasia and ADHD, only Aphantasia and ASD