3 Ways Lies of P Outclassed From Software

[@patrickowens89]

Also: dropping your death-Ergo outside the boss-wall was such a merciful courtesy.

[@ankitvashisht9477]

that just too good to be true

[@diddygt]

I was looking for this comment. Shadow of the Erdtree made me think they might've implemented this when I first lost to the boss in the Western Mausoleum, but it turned out to just be a glitch that sometimes happens.

[@gtx1650max-q]

I played Lies of P before any from soft souls games. And when I completed LoP and then started elden ring. I lost my mind on this, it was so unnecessarily punishing leaving the runes in boss arena.

[@KobytheHero]

The point about quests is so true. I love souls-likes but I absolutely hate how needlessly obtuse the quest structure is

[@TheeOddOrange]

My thoughts exactly

[@AtomicZamurai]

Didn't Miyazaki said they would improve in this aspect in future ips?

[@gibbygibbstein7858]

I think it was absolutely made even worse in Elden ring. Elden ring fanboys love to pretend the game is perfect but it by no means is. In other souls games while obtuse, it wasn't nearly as difficult tracking quests down, as the maps were a smaller, linear size. In elden ring, you have this massive open world where most quests don't have a clear direction of where you're supposed to go, and to make it worse if you progress to a certain point without finding these places/items first you miss out on them until a future playthrough. Anyone that says Elden Ring quest structure was fine absolutely googled how to complete them. I seriously doubt 99% of people just completed them without help. They're either very straight forward or very obtuse.

[@boiya9327]

@@gibbygibbstein7858 I don't think everyone have the time to score every gap and detail of the world just to complete a quest, just cause the lore are so linear and large

[@pajeetsingh]

Different people different choice. Some are straight some are gay.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

One thing I haven't heard anyone mention is the upgrades, in Lies of P you get a renewable tier of upgrade material at the same time the next tier is getting introduced. This encourages experimenting with weapons as no matter what, they wont feel underpowered.

[@TheeOddOrange]

I wish I thought to mention this, that's a good point

[@ryandavid1277]

Great point!

[@79bull]

That’s a great mechanic… I am considering buying the game and I think this just persuaded me, thanks 🙏

[@blizzardgaming7070]

@@79bull definitely get it, it is pretty difficult but really fun once you get the hang of it.

[@Monnisti]

Thats awesome i agree, and i adore this game. But having full covenant moonstones only for 2 boss weapons per playthrough and half of them right before the end is just unacceptable design. Doesnt matter that going to 3rd playthrough is encouraged by awesome phase 7 porgan, you still have only boss 2 weapons to play with until u get to end of playthrough 2

[@spergnation1859]

"What the hell is going on?" I never once said that playing Lies of P. Beautifully told story. Easy to follow but still has a lot of moving parts to it.

[@Soap010]

Well but that's like your opinion man If you don't like it fine but that's the whole point of it

[@noscotti]

@@Soap010it was cool when it was an indie game but now it just feels lazy, Elden rings story is completely in ur face and there’s not much it hides from you let’s say dark souls but there isn’t a large amount of story content

[@Ms.DreadWoof]

@@Soap010 It's time for Fromsoft to do an actual story instead of lore dumps.

[@momame8258]

@@Ms.DreadWoof just because they don’t do them in a straight forward style doesn’t mean we gotta dismiss the narrative and the writing of their games. Miyazaki's environmental storytelling is second to none ,the lore and the mystery surrounding his game's worlds is what makes him one of the greatest writers of the medium

[@Ms.DreadWoof]

@@momame8258 It's been like that for years tho and I want to see them actually do something with the characters they create. I don't believe it's good to hide important story elements in ways that are so obscure, you need to look them up online to understand what the hell is going on. That's just my opinion though and you don't have to agree with me.

[@theespressokid1]

You can literally break the opening quest lines of Shadow of the Erdtree by riding your horse over an invisible line on the map.

[@TheeOddOrange]

I never even knew that wtf haha, but that's exactly the issues I'm talking about

[@valentinvas6454]

Yeah that is so annoying and dumb. I thought it only happens if you go near the Shadow Keep but apparently no. If you go from Bonny Village towards Ymyr the same thing happen.

[@firelightning5018]

there's an opening quest??!

[@GregoryJohnson-l1g]

​@@firelightning5018 I think they just mean all the opening interactions with the NPCs that get skipped if you get too close to the Shadow Keep

[@egg_64.]

Like what? I don't know what you mean.

[@bboyExia]

The pulse cell recharge is so clutch. And really makes you lock in or at least never give up on a run. I beat nameless this way. Got the pulse cell recharge like 3 times jn the last ohase. Everytime i almost died. The ding came in. I got one more in me!

[@bboyExia]

I feel sekiros healing is fine tho. Considering all the avenues of healing. Kills, pills, rice, gourd, grass

[@gothxm]

yea lies of p definitely has some ideas that are amazing. i hope fs takes note but also still does their own thing.

[@Siaynoq8]

Elden's questing was just irritating as hell. It's a very long game and I don't know if I'm gonna replay it, so of course I don't wanna miss some of the biggest questlines (which can easily happen). Lies of P was the most refreshing pleasant surprise of a game. I'm really anxious for its DLC.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Yeah, I've heard a few say that, I'm anxious but also excited for it 😎

[@Nygex2024]

I'm a bit of a diehards souls player having played them in sequence since the release day of Demon's Souls. With that said, I really enjoyed Lies of P and rooting for other developers to start putting out games to compete. With that said, I have no problem with the questlines in any of the souls games as I recognize they are meant to be played more than once. I could be wrong but, as a single player game, the lack of any info somewhat forces you to engage with other players to share information, almost making it feel like more of a multiplayer experience. Again, I absolutely loved Lies of P and put it right up there with any FromSoftaware game. Only one other game I'd put in the same conversation is Nioh 2.

[@sothis8900]

I think Elden Ring’s lack of handholding is one of the biggest things I enjoyed about it tbh

[@TheeOddOrange]

Good to hear some people are enjoying it, because a lot don't like this aspect of the game 😅

[@gibbygibbstein7858]

@sothis8900 The lack of handholding is nice, but that doesn't necessarily make it good for every single thing. Sidequests are a pretty good example, they're absolutely obtuse in Elden Ring with very little direction as to where to go in most cases. This wasn't as big of an issue in previous soulsborne titles because the maps were smaller and linear. So there was a good chance you just naturally came across them anyway. It's made even more egregious, with these quests easily being missable if you progress to a certain point, and you'd never know. These quests very often rely on you being in "the right place at the right time" mindset, and that's not really a good thing especially with no in game way of tracking them, and if you missed it guess what? You missed it until the next playthrough. For example, to this day I have yet to meet Ranni at the church of Elleh. While it isn't needed to progress her questline it's still pretty important to it as it's how you'd normally be introduced to her, but I miss her simply by playing the game normally and exploring because there's literally 0 indicator or implication I should ever go there to meet her. Another example, the other day my friend was doing Nepheli's questline, and because he missed 1 step Seluvis was dead and he couldn't progress it.

[@freddyvalentine]

Lack of handholding and lack of any discernable story without hearing about it on KZbin.

[@GenUrobutcher]

A bad questline design it's not the same as no handholding lol, it's a terrible design choice

[@ronaldcoley9982]

@@freddyvalentine agreed! I don’t mind the handholding, but when the story is convoluted at best, then we’ve got a problem.

[@riskyumbrella4874]

Also your souls are put in front of the boss door when you die to a boss. Thats insanely help

[@JujuInFlames]

I definitely think endings need a reward that’s more than a cutscene. Give maybe like an exclusive item and heck if you get the items from each ending you unlock a secret boss or something just spitballing, especially knowing that you disappointingly don’t get the frenzied flame head if you get the madness ending

[@craziemosh]

did u give gepetto your heart ?

[@JujuInFlames]

@@craziemosh I was talking about Elden ring I haven’t played lies of p

[@phamtasticbaby6124]

@@craziemosh *SPOILERS* I was so surprised how all the NPCs at the hotel changed when I gave Geppetto my heart at the end!

[@natdragomirova722]

I know you mentioned that to you these were the big three but honestly there were so many things that i greatly missed from lies of p while playing shadow of the erdtree: Infinite respec. The gold coin tree was such a fantastic idea that could have really benefitted SotE. There were so many new weapons and styles to try but the bosses were far more challenging that i didn't know if i was only going to respec to get pancaked on a different way. So i kept my original build because i didn't want to get stuck on a playstyle that maybe i didn't enjoy. For that matter the trying out new weapons. I could test the waters by keeping my upgraded blade but changing the handle to have a better idea of how they played. A huge one for me! The npc's were affected by my chosen my ending: best/good ending they tell you idk what happened but i know you were the one who saved us while in the bad ending you get those really creepy puppets masquerading as our friends to hammer how fucked up that ending is. In elden ring it felt like i killed basically god and no one noticed, not a single mention from anyone. The souls/ergo outside the bosses arena when you die. The souls/ergo turning into a different color whenever i had enough to level up. I really loved lies of p and i can't wait for the DLC.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@natdragomirova722 fantastic comment to read, definitely felt the same when playing both

[@gothxm]

what puppets masquerading as our friends?

[@theoneandonly9775]

Another small but big improvment is that the ergo/rune/soul counter goes from white to blue if you have enough to level up, no need to check in a menu how much you still need or if you have enough Plus yeah quests can be a nightmare in fromsoft games, i feel like its easier to complete a cod zombies easter egg then figure out the quests on your own (at times). They dont have to be spelled out but finding out i had to do a certain emote, at a certain time to find a item, i then have to use near a tree to get dialog from a npc on the other side of the map, only for them to die so i can get a spell i will never use is a bit much (i never got the spell,i was 5 steps to close to a fog wall so half the npcs already died anyway)

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@theoneandonly9775 yeah that ergo counter is a good point, and I like the cod zombies comparison because those were abstract too but also quite do able

[@theoneandonly9775]

@@TheeOddOrange right? I mean there are a few easter eggs that are brutal but i feel like quite a few are rather nice to understand

[@whateverusername]

FromSoft and Elden Ring are so loved in the gaming community that it can feel like blasphemy to criticize them, but i think it's good that we do so that more games like Lies of P can come out and improve on their formula. As much as I loved Elden Ring, always in the back of my mind it felt like it was held back by its predecessors rather than helped; I even wondered if maybe this game would have been better if it wasn't a souls-like game, because a lot of the souls mechanics really don't fit the open world design. The quest design did not translate well in the slightest in my opinion, mainly due to the sheer size of the game. Nobody can keep track of ten different NPC quests while exploring, trying not to die, and progressing the main story all at once. The only way to do the quests is to use the wiki, every one of them has some random step that you would never predict based on the information given. The magic system is also super outdated and feels awful, nobody should ever have to scroll through a list of spells mid-combat. Upgrading weapons feels like shit, they added hundreds of weapons to the game but it was basically pointless because switching to a new one requires that you give your character the right levels, find a bunch of special rocks, and then finally upgrade it, only to eventually need to do it all over again when a boss resists that weapon type. Every single person I've watched play the game (also me) used 2-3 weapons max in their entire first playthrough, which is ridiculous for a game that takes 100+ hours to complete. They should have just made your damage scale with character level or something. I've always thought the worst-designed areas in FromSoft games were the ones where you could just run past the enemies without penalty, but Elden Ring gives you Torrent which allows you to skip probably 90% of the enemies in the game--and many areas they can just be sprinted past because of the more open area design. Which begs the question, why even bother having them if you don't need to fight them? Most wandering enemies feel more like annoyances than actual fights. Enemies in the Dark Souls series always felt like active obstacles to my progress rather than set dressing for reviewers to point at as proof of how "big" the game is. Avoiding damage in fights is still 90% how good you are at rolling, sure there are shields, parries, ashes of war, jumps, etc. which all allow you to avoid damage in other ways, but they all have pretty significant downsides while rolling is effective against every attack and has zero downside aside from locking you in an animation (which everything else in the game already does). Lies of P fixed this issue by borrowing the parry mechanic from Sekiro and the health-regain from Bloodborne when you're blocking, making all three of them into viable options and I found myself needing to master all three to beat the game. The pulse cell regain that you mentioned is such an obvious and amazing quality of life change that I can't believe From never added it in any of their games. I can think of so many times I got to a boss's arena after fighting all the enemies on the way there and then just died instantly because I couldn't heal. Overall I thought Elden Ring was a pretty good game that could have been so much better if they fixed the issues with the original souls formula before making a giant behemoth of a game out of it. Lies of P did a great job of fixing these issues, I absolutely loved the game and I'm absolutely buying the sequel when it comes out.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Such an awesome comment to read, Its funny I actually mentioned stuff like this in my other video too so I agree with a lot of what is being said here haha. I honestly think lies of P is better than some fromsoft games so I'm keen for the next thing too

[@arondeemusic]

Absolute facts

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@arondeemusic such a good comment aye

[@gibbygibbstein7858]

Bro woke up and cooked. I only disagreed with the "Why have them if you can run by them?" While it's true, fights felt more impactful in older games as they almost always served as obstacles, taking away enemies roaming the open world in Elden Ring would just make the world feel even more empty than it does at times. I think a better way would've been to incentivize players to engage with random fights more, so they run away less.

[@whateverusername]

@@gibbygibbstein7858 Yeah for me when I was playing through the game I had a rule for myself that I had to kill all the enemies the first time I went through an area, I would like to see something that incentivizes that so ppl at least fight them the first time instead of running past

[@JayLamm]

Here are three other things From Software needs to adapt that Lies of P did right: 1) Dropping your "souls" or "ergo" OUTSIDE the boss room after you die. 2) Enemies de-aggro once you get close enough to the boss door, allowing you to do what you gotta do to your character before entering. 3) Elevators or lifts are automatically adjusted when you die. So, no more having to pull a lever or sending an elevator down on the chance you may die.

[@Soubhagya_CHE]

From what i have seen FromSoftware doesn't add any depth or any character development to the main character of the game. It's okay and cool to learn about Radahn, Godfrey, Miquella and all, but i also want to see the character i am playing develop too. Even characters like Melina who has one of the least screen time, have a decently established plot focusing on who she is, and what's her purpose. The only time there was a decent depth to the main character was Sekiro . While, Lies of P does focus on character development and i think that's a W.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Dude yes, awesome to read this, would be totally cool to have some character development for your own character in those games

[@kdnu27]

Yeah, but even the main bosses are not that developed. You can read about them a bit, but it's not enough to form any kind of emotional connection with them. In God of War Ragnarok I spent enough time with Heimdall to make me want to punch his face really hard, so when I finally got the opportunity it was immensely satisfying. You don't get the same in FromSoft games, which is a flaw in my opinion. Except for Sekiro, which is my favourite game made by FS. Because of fight mechanics and a bigger focus on the story.

[@DatAsianGuy]

that comes just with the territory of wanting to give players freedom. if you establish them too much, then certain choices feel out of character, make not enough establishing characteristics (like in ER) then you have to make the player build him up through choices, but there aren't that many significant choices in the game, especially choices that feel like they actually inform or shape your character. going down the frenzied flame path is how he describes somewhat meaningless. Your character has no reaction, nothing changes. they are the same old tarnished in every sense, except now they have cool yellow frenzy flame eyes.

[@ShadowAraun]

@@kdnu27 yes but God of War Ragnarok is a hallway for most of the game with some open areas sprinkled in for flavor.

[@junichiroyamashita]

That was exactly why Dark Souls was so popular,it had different system of storyrelling. Characters set in stone,like myths,you can see this even more in Elden Ring,where the mythological approach is to the roof. It gives a very eastern charm. But what you are complaining about,is exactly what intrigued people so much when they first saw it,i mean.

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

Lies of p is what the souls games and souls like should be, what they must evolve. Round 8 studio and this game truly outclass from software in many areas that they need to improve if they don't want to be left behind this developer and others. The only games they have which can be considered objectively above lies of p are dark souls and bloodborne, but now they need to evolve with the others to new heights. I cannot wait for the reveal of the upcoming lies of p dlc 🔥

[@raphael.portela]

shut ur ass , you trash player, i played all soulslike, and i dont want to play lies of p

[@samuelleon3525]

The sekiro parry, the bloodborne quickstep, the dodge roll of souls and elden ring seamlessly integrated, the refilling one flask if you get good, the system of being able to assemble new weapons using blades and handles, the fact that you can break weapons of enemies by parrying including bosses… Shadow of the Erdtree is a masterpiece, but I truly think the best souls battle system rn belongs to Lies of P and fromsoft should take note

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@samuelleon3525 yeah I agree, if it was implemented into elden ring the combat would actually be insane I reckon

[@arondeemusic]

I enjoyed most of Lies of P's boss fights more than Elden ring fights tbh, felt less spammy and more tactical

[@TheeOddOrange]

Yeah across the board I felt the same actually, cheers for the music b

[@pablosuarez9211]

For quests and lore, I agree that LOP might seem more convenient but I don’t think it means froms design is bad, just a different approach to make the game more immersive and mysterious that might backfire. ER is rly where these points are relevant because it’s open world doesn’t align super well with froms quests or storytelling. It’s still good just flawed. As for healing I think hollow knight has the best possible system of having hits give you mana (soul) you can then use to heal or cast spells. I rly hope this system is implemented into a from game someday.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Woah I never considered hollow knights version of it but thats a good point, loved that game also

[@rodneyabrett]

Felt the same way on every point.. and I'm a pretty hardcore FROM software fan. My only complaint with P was the sometimes unforgiving parry window on some enemies and bosses which is extremely tight. So much so that after I finished P, I went and replayed Sekiro again and was a parry god blowing through the game with such ease. The good thing is that you have options with P, so you don't have to use the parry. The game gives you choices to how you're going to take down enemies and bosses.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@rodneyabrett Me too, this was great to read man! I felt about the same when I played it, if I couldn't parry I would try dodge instead

[@Locomotion94]

The parry mechanic was pretty hard at first but it wasn't until NG+ i got really good at it because it kinda clicked. What helped me was to always look at the enemies limbs/weapon when they are about unleash an unblockable and just press block as soon as their arm/weapon almost touched P.

[@rodneyabrett]

@@Locomotion94 Oh, interesting. I'll have to look for those specific tells you mentioned. Thanks!

[@danielantony1882]

The only reason the parry windows are tight is because you are tapping it. Tapping the button removes parry frames. You have to hold it.

[@rodneyabrett]

@@danielantony1882 Oh, interesting. I may actually be doing that. Thanks!

[@qwerty7240]

I like the design of the map. I usually get confused in games even if I have a map and a minimap, but in Lies of P navigation has never been annoying. It always was a pleasure to discover a very useful shortcut. In addition, common enemies, mini-bosses and bosses are very optimal placed on the way. Nothing pisses me off, it's very nice to run from one stargazer to another.

[@Robzi_1000]

You could fix Elden rings quest issue by simply keeping discovered npcs on the map no matter where they move to, this way it keeps it mysterious the way form likes it and also allows you to keep track of npcs in a way if one has moved you can assume it’s in the next quest phase.

[@galaxyvulture6649]

Lies of p is so good it actually feels like itself a souls game. Its actually my second favorite game now and I hope fromsoft is add some of its quality of life changes to future titles. I even love the actual quests in general more since you actually can save people and the characters grow from the events. Vegnini is by my favorite souls like npc and his goals are so admirable.

[@TheeOddOrange]

100% agree with this, Lies of P is a seriously good game

[@Vexerino]

FromSoft should put a feature where you could toggle on and off a quest log after beating the game once tbh.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Fully agree

[@raphael.portela]

nah

[@ETY20]

Love your closing thought - it's great that there are now two companies that can give us games on this level.

[@neID_]

Really great points. I also think Lies of P is doing an amazing job of combining different elements of the Souls combat system, giving players multiple ways to approach each fight. You can go with a classic roll, a Bloodborne-style dodge, a Sekiro-style perfect parry + hand abilities, or use some great throwables. This mix of different approaches is very refreshing and makes the fights incredibly interesting.

[@Barney_rubble983]

The pulse cell recharge also really helps you to learn the game. I found myself slowing down and trying to let it charge.. I also like the story being more accessible, like sekiro my favourite from soft game.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Exactly the same here, Sekiro is absolutely awesome

[@neatoz3221]

Lies of p really came out of nowhere and took the "souls like" genre to the next level. Every souls like should take a leaf out of its book and bring in it's own unique mechanics rather than completely copying the souls formula

[@TheeOddOrange]

Nice comment man, fully agree 🦵

[@crashMYbandicoot-iv8mw]

Nah sekiro by fromsoft did it first its combat is unmatched fight me

[@VuTuan-kb3sv]

@@crashMYbandicoot-iv8mw P combat is supperior due to your ability to do both dodge like BB and parry like sekiro

[@chadwolf3840]

Lies of P is the one souls-like that has truly crushed it. Enotria looks to be a contender as well when it comes out in September, fingers crossed.

[@Lothnar5070]

Exactly, lies of P was the most overrated crap I've played in years. A very disappointing experience

[@mytho3286]

After playing ER DLC i must say that FS could also learn from Neowiz how to make challenging but fun bosses.

[@LiloDemon]

I can say a lot, For example: - The Quests Markers. - A Souls/Eergo counter changes color when you have e nough to level up, - A Training Room to test your weapon's moveset and even a Puppet to Train parry, wich they had in Sekiro at Leasts. - More optional Dialogues to explain more about the Story. - If you use Lift/elevator and die after, it respawns back in time as well so you can go ahead with no need of calling it back. - Souls in front of boss Room when you die. - The fact you can Change the HUB's music as well. Damn, sometimes I catch myself listening to the songs while training some weapon it's SOOO good. - Big Enemies when killed by Critical Hits, Fable Arts or even Charge Attacks get absolutely DESTRYOED wich gives me a sense of power and finesse. Now about the game itself: As souls games have gameplay/combat as their core, i liked how they added some Fighting Games mechanics in it. For example: THe Fables Arts gauge work as the energy bars in Fightning games, fill them to use a Super. And those mixture of Bloodborne Rally system activated ONLY when defending reminded me a lot of Street Fighter 5.

[@camodeano3003]

The FromSoft games tell their stories in such a terrible way. Like I remember playing the first Dark Souls game in my friend’s dorm room in college and I just kept asking “Wtf is this story? What are we even doing? What am I even fighting for?!” For that reason, I didn’t even bother picking up another game until Elden Ring because the games are hard but I felt like the story didn’t motivate you to overcome the challenge smh.

[@rikuthe1st14]

Another crucial improvement to pulse cells over flasks is the speed of the animation, LOP has it's pulse cell animation take half or less time than ER's flask. It's always bugged me that you can end up in a healing loop in ER, and LOP's faster animation makes that far lees likely to happen.

[@poppornprakin7382]

My plays style on every souls game is blind run on 1st playthrough and then 2nd playthrough with details on the internet, and that's what make me attached to the game for 100+ hours. Lies of P is one of my fevorite souls-like game for sure. Good story, good mechanics, good in every aspect, but after I complete my 1st playthrough of the game, I lost my interesting to play it over again. This is the main different between souls and souls-like game for me.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Thats a great perspective actually

[@natus5494]

I also love about the quest system is when you get a quest item gemine will say something like “isn’t that what ____ asked for”

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@natus5494 thats a really good point actually

[@celinapeck3054]

These are actually good points

[@TheeOddOrange]

Thank you!

[@riplix20]

3:57 this happened to me in the Elden Ring dlc, walked too close to a castle near the beginning and lost the first couple steps of most quest lines, joy. It isn’t even like I could just remake my character considering the location of the DLC, screw running through the game and regrabbing a full playthroughs worth of gear

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@riplix20 i know what you mean, I missed some stuff too because of progression like that

[@SirGellette]

Questing is definitely a solid point. I’d like to think Gemini was the one in charge of navigation, since P was a newly formed puppet that didn’t know his way around, but the Tarnished had Melina, so it’s absolutely possible for Melina to have more interaction with the NPCs and serve as a guide for quest navigation.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@SirGellette great point, totally could have had her voice come in at times to add more context to certain things

[@scarvello]

Lop was amazing it really shocked me by how much it immersed me.

[@tgs5725]

The story being understandable was so nice. I really enjoy games with a good story.

[@stut7177]

On point number 2 I do agree that the npc quests in Elden Ring can get a little messy such as the example you gave with Millicent. However, playing through Dark Souls the first few times and each play through being a little different and offering something new due to discovering an NPC quest you missed or something like finding Kaathe or the Sif cutscene after the DLC is way more interesting to me than the game telling me where to find all that stuff. Stumbling into Ash Lake by blindly exploring has so much more impact than a map telling you where it is in my opinion. Think about Solaire's quest on you first few playthroughs he dies to the sunlight maggot. Then on a subsequent playthrough you decide to do the chaos covenant and you kill the maggot before it gets him and he makes it to the end of the game. The surprise you'd get from these thing would be almost non existent if the game told you where to get them.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@stut7177 the thing with solaires quest is most people had to look it up because the window to do the chaos covenant was so small that it was easy to mess his quest up, I think it applies even for the older games sometimes too

[@stut7177]

@@TheeOddOrange I get what you're saying but it's not unrealistic for someone to discover it organically. Most players probably won't find it but I think From does that kind of thing intentionally to a) make it more special when you do find it, and b) you get that 'new discovery' moment in the community which is also pretty great.

[@sebastienshalaj6429]

A cool thing they did, is having you understand the language of the puppets on ng +, just like in ff10 where you would understand al bhed on your 2dn playthrough... given the fact you found all the manuals on your first one of course

[@TheeOddOrange]

I didn't actually know this, but this is so cool

[@VREMEPLOV1]

Lies of P is one of the best games I’ve ever played, hands down. Can’t wait for dlc and future projects. KUDOS to the team! Enjoyed every second of the game. FS could really benefit from implementing some LoP features, particularly when it comes to weapon and quest design. Combining the best features from Dark souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro was a jackpot.

[@Kenzaki1010]

Little things like drop soul in front of boss room, letting you know if you have enough soul to level up, remake Bloodborne's rally system to give you more control etc. make Lies of P more user friendly.

[@lucasalkimim564]

i did milicent quest without guide, buuuut, i was playing with two other friend and we made our mission to uncover the games lore on our 1st run, so we read items and shared info, that way we didnt lose too many quests . (in this 1st playtrough we even got angry at from cause some of the quest werent finished ")

[@rttrtt1374]

To the first point, there is damn near always a grace infront of the boss room. If you panic chug too many out of your flasks....thats on you.

[@TheRockhound119]

I did actually do Millicent's quest fully without walkthroughs by pure chance. Cannot say that about 3/4 of the npcs though.

[@FizzlyFiz579-_-]

Not to mention no boring boss repetition, the only ones repeated in LoP is the Brotherhood which was an awesome part of the story line

[@CrowScareify]

Lies Of P is a superb game. I cannot wait to see what they do next.

[@Prince_Sidon]

Elden Ring is a different experience ; the fact that you'd unalive yourself after your last Estus flask is what they want ; so you start again. Remember it's Miyazaki we're talking about. While a recharging pulse cell in Lies of P is necessary since just get 3-4; maybe 5, idk.

[@altarego7]

Great video, subscribed. Please keep making these videos, you're off to a great start on this channel!

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@altarego7 thank you so much, I truly appreciate the kind words. I'm currently working on the new video as I write this comment 😎

[@Etheral101]

Problem with Elden Ring is you need to google every quest. Yeah I get no map markers but a journal would of been great.

[@JellyJman]

⁠I honestly didn’t have any problems with Elden Ring quests when I played it first time blind because I kept a literal note journal and quest log for everything going on and was able to find Malenia, and finish Dialos, Millicent. Alexander, Boc, Patche(although I got lucky and found him by chance in the shaded castle) and Ranni’s questline completely on my own. I was also able to do the dlc quests too because of keeping an actual quest log. I don’t think it’s bad if you do this, now you may think that keeping a literal quest log is silly but I find it very atmospheric and enjoyable lol 😂 to each their own.

[@noname-dg4oy]

FromSoft fanboys be writing the story for Miyazaki

[@michaeldones2320]

I love that the lock on feels like a sword fight in Lies of P. You are not just dodging and trying to kill a monster by cutting it in the ass

[@Harpy-with-Legs]

Holy cannoli the amount I care is second to none in the sheer little of a it that exists

[@dantv517]

I’ve grown numb to most of Elden Ring. It’s so big many areas feel samey. Never felt that with bloodborne, ds1, or ds3 which are my favorites

[@TheeOddOrange]

Definitely felt this at times in elden ring, the dlc fixes it a bit, but I know what you mean by the older games

[@Kovar99YT]

In my opinion they made the game much easier, better checkpoints, a lore that's easier to understand, and a better explanation of stats and items compared to most "souls like" games, overall the game was 8/10 imo, It was really short but great !, cant wait for the dlc to come out later this year

[@naturalfitness-1]

I would add the ability to break enemy weapons and your souls spawning outside the boss fog after you die

[@TheeOddOrange]

I agree with this for sure

[@youngcody1]

It's strange, I agree with a lot here but I'd hate to see FromSoft implement them. I love FromSofts formula, I just completed my very first play through of Dark Souls & I can't detail just how good it is. I think it's great to see others be inspired & have their own take on it, I just love FromSofts uniqueness & hope it remains so for more years to come. Lies of P was fantastic, also loved The Lords of the Fallen

[@Mzlanders]

I’m 20 hours into Lies of P after a 380 hr run in Elden Ring. I must say, this video is spot on. Elden Ring is up there with the greatest games ever made, but a lot of what you said here was dead on, man. Great video and deserves a lot more views than it has.

[@nomercy8989]

After playing the Shadow of the Erdtree I have to say... I enjoyed playing Lies of P last year more. I'm sick of huge open worlds. Give me linear on foot exploration...

[@TheeOddOrange]

Been hearing this a few times actually, goes to show how good lies of p is 🤔

[@MrPangahas]

a good mix of both is ideal.smaller open world levels leading to more tightly designed linear ones then opening up once again going into the next area.

[@pedropaulo13220]

it was sooo empty and all the areas look the same with different colors

[@Terron29]

Yup I really like elden ring but def prefer Lies of P for sure. The highs of ER are high but it has a fair bit of filler and empty space/repetative reused bosses. In Lies it was much smaller but almost entirely great from start to finish.

[@okpoiiika_b_kopblte_ctaca7084]

How about God of War? Playing it right now and the semi-open world is satisfying as hell

[@jonayarrocha4009]

This game is not only challenging... Is fun. That's where From Software fails, it's all about difficulty. The best example is Elden Ring dlc. This game has great story, great weapons, great bosses, graphics, soundtrack... It has everything. I can't wait for the dlc to come out.

[@Lemoncit0]

The reason Lies of P combat is so good is because it follows one core philosophy, if you want to deal the most amount of damage you need to be close to the enemy. Elden ring encourages to move away from it. If you want to deal the most amount of damage in Lies of P you need to parry every attack forcing you to be in the most danger, you can choose what attacks to parry, evade or block allowing you to dinamycally change the difficulty through combat while rewarding risky aggressive behaviour. In Elden ring if you want to deal the most amount of damage you should summon mimic tear and stay as far as possible casting spells. The risk/reward makes no sense. How is an aggressive strategy dealing less damage than a defensive one.

[@TheeOddOrange]

Well thought out comment, makes wonder what elden ring would be like with a parry mechanic 🤔

[@Lemoncit0]

@@TheeOddOrange probably would solve most of the problems for me but the game should focus in giving more options for evading attacks rather than attacking options, rolling is better than jumping so there's no reason to ever use it. I think to completely fix we might need a whole bunch of new mechanics. Maybe tune more attacks to make them jumpable but give the player is slight damage boost if they land a jump attack with the same jump they evaded. This would not only encourage the player to use jumping as an evasion strategy but also to stay closer to the boss. Most attack combos would need to be tuned so that rolling is viable or heavily reducing recovery frames so that I don't get hit right after perfectly dodging one attack Sekiro-like parry might work but I think it would be better to lower their defenses for like 10 seconds so that the player wants to actually attack. This effect should stack so that the player is encouraged to parry multiple attacks. These are just some ideas from someone who never made a game. I loved the exploration in ER but boss combat was extremely disappointing because sekiro did it so well

[@TheeOddOrange]

​@@Lemoncit0can tell you have put a lot of thought into it, there is definitely some tweaks fromsoft could use for combat, its a shame they can't see this comment 😅

[@meromoz]

The game has a variaty of choices for you to choose to become a close quarter combatant or a mage that like spells casting?

[@AtomicZamurai]

After playing shadow of the erd tree I really don't think elden ring encourages to stay away. The bosses attack will hit harder if you don't stay close enough to punish their attacks and dodge immediately. Consort radhan and renalla literally have attacks on attacks. If you dodge away you get killed

[@jakeniclaz5393]

I like the obscure quests, but I higly agree with feeling like your choice doesn´t matter sometimes

[@MIbra96]

Sekiro is my favorite fromsoft game. Never finished Elden Ring. Maybe I'll give Lies of P a shot.

[@FizzlyFiz579-_-]

You will not regret, at all

[@nicco1295]

No game is difficult till you understand mechanics

[@griffonu]

The entire idea in games like Elden Ring or - gasp! - FFXI Online, is that there's a huge power within the community. Even very unlikely quests will get solved and shared with others. It's a naturalistic approach to world discovery which brings with it some FOMO risks but also great joy. That being said, the decision making part of the video is spot on!

[@soml0t]

nothing particularly "natural" with stopping the game so that you can google how to do one quest or another

[@Cconkyy]

I couldn't put this game down... played through 6 times before I stopped.. and I will definitely play again.. and the DLC.. and the sequel

[@TheeOddOrange]

That's actually awesome to hear

[@Cconkyy]

@@TheeOddOrange its the first game I ever got the plat trophy on besides Minecraft years ago playing with my daughter.. I have since gotten plat on Elden Ring as well.. there's something special about that they did with this game.. love it!

[@Luxuriouswhite]

Lies of P is fantastic and has a lot going for it. I would say if they cleaned up the animations/telegraphs of boss attacks it would be tied with Fromsoft games for me. A lot of the attacks in the game just come out in such strange manner that leads to a frustrating learning experience sometimes

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@Luxuriouswhite thats interesting man, I actually found lies of P easier to get a grip on than elden ring in terms of combat 🤔

[@GatoMichito]

Man, Lies of P is such a good game but idk i never really got into the game, i know that the game is good, completed the game in 7 hours and never touched it again, idk why i felt like i had to complete it as fast as possible, to take it out of the way. Never had this feeling before.

[@Brutalcel]

Lies of P crushed Elden rings combat

[@gabrielgutierrez6086]

I love ER but after playing Lies of P I felt that something was missing.

[@Rich0029]

I think Lies of P is better no stuttering or bad frame rates.

[@icebear3052]

The music is also a great addition to

[@wuuduu609]

you dont need to be held by hand, to progress quests in FromSoftware games

[@TheeOddOrange]

In elden ring I would argue you have to, but lies of P is giving incredibly small hints, not holding your hand 😊

[@johnhealey6455]

I enjoyed Lies of P more than Elden Ring.

[@slymufasa15]

People need to understand the difference between a genuine issue and preferences the regain system isn’t an inherent problem

[@daddysmurf2266]

story telling and quests realy need massive improvements by fromsoft

[@odious5317]

FromSoft’s best game, in my opinion, is Sekiro. The story, and the quests were easier to follow, but could still be a bit obtuse. The combat system is responsive, engaging, fun, and fast-paced. Lies Of P utilized the deflect system from Sekiro. They implemented it very well.

[@nathaniel9526]

Everyone says elden ring quest structure is weird but I enjoyed it, because it feels like I’m just a small part in this large world, and that I don’t HAVE to do anything, but the choice is whamatters

[@TheeOddOrange]

I know what you mean, I think the reason we complain about the structure is because you can break so many quests just by moving too far in the wrong direction

[@99Livesx]

Fidelity, characterization, and story

[@LordBackuro]

God i love Elden Ring it’s truly deserving of being, in the top 20 games of all time list if there was one. But the quest systems, truly are too complicated it’s horrendous. Like dawg I would like to do them without mostly needing, to rely on KZbin guides i'd rather have it be just like in Skyrim and be able to do them on my own. For their next game especially a open world one, I truly hope that Fromsoft creates a consistent and well structured quest and general NPC system. It’s a open world game it shouldn’t feel linear, but the current way it is makes it feel very linear. It’s too open if that, is a way to say it. I also think they should do a better job, at the system for NPC’s they have where doing one quest line might cancel another. That should be handled far better.

[@shad3115]

The best thing about Lies of P is the song ‘Feel’.

[@ky58065]

Elevators automatically resetting as well .

[@TheeOddOrange]

I didn't even notice this, but thats pretty cool

[@w_419]

I think Lies of P was a love letter to fromsoft. There are a lot of things that lies of P did right but it also did somethings wrong.

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

Quick comment that this isn’t exclusive to Lies of P. Team Ninja is the TRUE direct competitor of FROM. Mastering Nioh means that bosses that everyone cries about like Miquella/Radahn are EZ! Literally! The moves are super telegraphed and make a fun dance. But because gaming always aims to be more accessible there are now a lot of people in the endgame who never learned to dance properly. Code Vein is another Souls like that did something unique. It is the Souls game that encourages trying new builds the most! With “Blood Code” mechanic you need to switch the code to earn “universal skills”. Do this enough and you will have the strongest build with many abilities you’re familiar with! Even the first Souls like, Lords of the Fallen, rewarded the “chess” gameplay of old Souls. Fight with the correct rhythm when attacking and now you will consume less Stamina when fighting!

[@SirenSong207]

I have heard (but have never played) that Bloodborne offered a rally system.

[@Oxrenn]

This games just too good. So much quality of life and the bosses and combat in this game were my favorite out of any souls-like/soulsborne

[@AXZT-kt6lr]

Everything in this video is such a good point. In my eyes, sekiro was the first step of evolution for fromsoft, moving forward and away from their "dodge-roll" and "hidden story" formula. I expected the next games after sekiro to then be the further evolution in both combat mechanics and story. However, once elden ring came out, it felt like they took a whole step back in terms of game design and went back to the old outdated ways. I was dissapointed, but elden ring is still a good game, i just think if they furthered what they learned from sekiro into elden ring, it would've truly outshined all games. That being said, lies of P is great in what it accomplishes, I just wish souls fans weren't so braindead with the mentality that any criticism towards fromsoft is only made because "player bad"

[@TheeOddOrange]

First off all thank you and I Fully agree with what you're saying here, elden ring definitely should have taken things from sekiro, good point

[@soml0t]

just rlly wish fromsoft games had a quest journal. having to pull out my phone to write things down or google shit isn't skillful - just dumb, tedious, and unimmersive.

[@oudt3762]

I don't feel the same about this game, but I think it could help fromsoft what not to do with game not what to do.

[@arunmax8319]

I played and Love Lies of P. Only Bad thing about it was I could defeat 2nd phase of any boss by throwing random throwable items.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@arunmax8319 hahaha true, the random throwables were actually way too good in this game

[@MichaelRazafiarison-u5h]

the only issue is the environnent, there are not enough immesiveness with boss fights due to the ground being always flat. But combat-wise it is great (more like sekiro) which needs reflexes

[@thatheway]

lies of p is alright nothing ground breaking

[@allandm]

I gotta say, I never care about anything that happens in fromsoft games.

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@allandm yeah I sometimes get that feeling in those games too

[@kdnu27]

It's hard to care when you're thrown in the post apocalyptic world where you cannot participate in any important events but at best read about them. And FS is replicating this formula in every game except for Sekiro.

[@okpoiiika_b_kopblte_ctaca7084]

Because the main part of the good story are characters but not events. The only characters I like are Patches, Siegmeyer and Siegward

[@ارشيفعندليبالفيديوجيمز]

said what i always knew but afraid to say great video

[@TheeOddOrange]

@@ارشيفعندليبالفيديوجيمز thank you, I appreciate that

[@Areis1997]

Elden ring did need some quest markers for more npcs

[@c3ramics]

Elden Ring: Can’t keep my name out of your mouth huh

[@Kyou-S]

The only problem of Lies of P is the map is too linear not so much secret path to explore

[@okpoiiika_b_kopblte_ctaca7084]

And no optional locations like Untended Graves or River Sioffra

[@lesanikuniku2153]

Agree. if Lies of P wasnt too linear it wouldve been perfect. But i think why from soft didnt do these QoL quest improvements is so that the replayability of the game is there.

[@TheeOddOrange]

True to an extent but elden rings replayability kinda sucks I reckon 😅