34 keys is all you need: an ergonomic keyboard journey

[@JuKa.H]

I'm down to 8 keys. I just memorized the whole UTF-8 Unicode Encoding and insert the bytes I need with each finger being a bit.

[@nodidog]

This seems reasonable

[@Wren6991]

How do you type a null byte?

[@JuKa.H]

@@Wren6991 just how you type it with any other keyboard. You don't :D

[@barendscholtus1786]

You would still need a LOAD type of key to commit/push a byte ?? And another LOAD key to commit/push a character bc utf8 is variable length

[@Hector-bj3ls]

You could reduce to two keys. Just 0 and 1, and insert a single bit at a time.

[@rexbaumeister7377]

Gotta love a presentation where the speaker opens with "I'm not crazy, I swear'

[@tamfang]

Not _totally_ deranged

[@Tabaskuh]

Just to clarify. It is not A Rabbithole, it is the mother of all rabbit holes. Behind each component and choice there is a rabbit hole behind it. At least one. Choose wisely :)

[@subrezon]

I learned Colemak-DH on a regular laptop keyboard, by doing 30 minutes of practice every day, but continued using QWERTY for work. After ~1 week, I fully stopped looking at the layout cheat sheet. After ~2.5 weeks, it became very confusing to use QWERTY, so I switched to Colemak-DH full-time. After ~4 weeks, I reached 60 WPM, which I consider to be enough to keep up with how fast I think. After 2 months I surpassed my top QWERTY speed of 80 WPM. I then reached 90 WPM (after 4 months), and then 100 WPM (~1 year), and can now do around 110 WPM (~2.5 years since the switch). Compared to that, switching to a split keyboard was super easy. I became very comfortable with it nearly instantly. I designed my own layout from scratch.

[@mgjulesdev]

You are an inspiration. Well done!

[@inertia_dagger]

good job. I peak at 80 wpm with QWERTY, was wondering what exactly am I doing wrong

[@PaulSebastianM]

Had a similar experience in college when switching from qwerty to dvorak but I stopped using it after 1 year. It was awesome to be honest. But now I think I might not have the clean brain to relearn another layout...

[@biblical.languages]

I am just wondering if you think the focused practice (independent of keyboard layout) improved your speed generally? I currently do 110-120wpm on QWERTY depending on the day and I am really on the fence regarding if it's worth making the switch. I agree Colemak is going to be miles better, but is it that much better?

[@PaulSebastianM]

@@biblical.languages at that speed you shouldn't care. The best improvement a new layout gives you is better ergonomics, really. Less finger movement, etc. I stuck with QWERTY because I want to be able to type on any keyboard. Currently I have switched to the Glove 80 for the ergonomics and it's an improvement. I feel less tension in my wrists. The only problem is I'm back to 38-40 WPM because of the columnar layout. It was really throwing me off at first but after one weeks it's now down to creating that muscle memory, so I can get rid of some mistakes and do less thinking when correcting myself.

[@DygmaLab]

Hey just so you know, the Dygma Raise's software (and firmware) is open source.

[@s_i_m_o_n_e_n_g_e_l]

Now we need this type of keyboard for the new Framework laptop

[@qwerty11111122]

Origami keyboard that folds flat!

[@BHBalast]

Great video, it's actually like 70% of info that I needed when I decided to make my own split keyboard! :)

[@michbushi]

Switching from "ergonomic" keyboards such a Microsoft Ergonomic Kbd/Logitech equivalent to first Truly Ergonomic Computer Keyboard and later to Ergodox, has completely fixed my very very painful RSI. I was wearing a wrist brace full time, and it was very painful. I recommend modern split ergo keebs to everyone who HASN'T yet developed RSI, but people are very reluctant.

[@mgjulesdev]

Glad you managed to fix your RSI. I saw a friend suffering from RSI and wore wrist brace. I just said nope, got a split keeb and thumb trackball mouse. 😅 P.S and also switched to Colemak DHm

[@medhavimiddha9882]

Do you have any recommendations for someone wanting to get into this?

[@agatasoda]

I love the subtitles switching qwerty layout with square teeth layout gave me a good chuckle

[@AlexdeJesusR]

Last dawn a had I lot of ideias before sleep to make a video about this very specific subject. After wake, one friend has send me this video. It was like the algorithm has read my mind and persuade another person to send me xD

[@kasperkondzielski3028]

Same, but I am going to make another one anyway :D

[@AlexdeJesusR]

Just post it

[@kouhaiii3182]

where I'm from, we call that coincidence

[@bear532]

I want to add that with the wooting analog design, when it’s shrunk, it will be extremely useful for this type of board. Fr example, the hold-tap behavior can be replaces with shallow taps and full taps.

[@chips7049]

that's gonna be hard with people moving from full sized to low profile switches.

[@SNTASCND]

Great talk!, I’m on 42 keys now with Corne, thinking to go down to 34, but I think I will remain in QWERTY

[@omega_no_commentary]

11:41 What if you need to press CTRL + Shift + F?

[@kouhaiii3182]

you hold "mod" keys with your right hand, and then press F with you left

[@usercommon1]

thanks for keys layout idea!

[@EverSoJoe]

I just switched to a 42 key corne and still getting used to it. The outer column is still rather important to me as I rellay don't want to get used to key combos and with those columns I can still use just two layers and get everything done

[@ÁkiBaldur]

at 1:08. what is the bottom most keyboard's name?

[@nickgoogle4525]

For some languages you will need a few extra keys, so one extra column on the left and right side (for the pinky) is needed in that case IMO. But the general idea to not to use too many keys (regularly) is surely good.

[@vaffens]

Some people just abstract that to other layers. Personally I use ANSI the US layout for Danish in macOS. ÆØÅ are just [Options]+a, [Options]+o, etc ...And I've gotten used to it. Not a big deal really.

[@HiltonT69]

I was noticing RSI issues in both wrists and switched to both a MS Ergo (full-sized, Alice-style layout) keyboard and also a Logitech thumb trackball and, after some time (a few months, I type like poo anyway) I noticed the reduction and eventual disappearance of my RSI. I really want to want to move to a true split 34-key keyboard but something is still holding me back. Probably not looking forward to the bigger change than the last change, but realistically sticking to a Qwerty-based layout will mean regular laptop keyboards (and tablet OSK) shouldn't be much of an issue - especially with the portability and BT connectability of one of these... Hhhhmmmmmm...

[@augustin_gan]

Hi, my advice for you would be to learn a new logical layout (Workman, Colemak, Dvorak, etc) along with the new physical layout (insert ergo split keeb of choice here). This will allow you to retain ur QWERTY touch typing ability, without interfering, by much at least, with your learning/getting accustomed to the new layout. As much as we want to use our custom keebs all the time, u will find yourself having to use the century old staggered QWERTY so it's a good idea to retain your qwerty typing skills. As for 34 keys being too high a jump, it depends... Just imagine using a 34 split ergo - would tuning your homerow mod-tap delays every time your typing speed increases be too troublesome? Is it too difficult to remember your combos? If so, you could go for something more 40%-50% with more thumb keys (dactyl manuform, kyria, corne, and other 4x5 layouts) or something that has that 6th column because u need those pinky mods after trying and finding out homerow mods isn't for you or because instead of numpad layout u prefer the same-old, less efficient number row & Fkey row (under a layer of course) or u want some extra keys for dedicated mute/ptt, prntscrn because you use it all day everyday (on this note, some have advised to just build a macropad w encoder to complement your keeb, but some of us prefer to connect 1 peripheral, especially on the go). For a low cost "try-before-you-commit" keeb, I strongly recommend the Cantor/Piantor (4x6) or Cantor remix (4x5) as a cheap entry into 42key or 36key split ergo. It is a diode-less design, making it really beginner friendly for people who don't have any experience soldering. The MCU it's designed with is also really affordable, you don't even need to 3d print or use a case, just stick rubber-bump-ons direct to the PCB (as the author's github page pictures), saving you some extra $. (disclaimer: availability may vary depending on where you live, but there are many vendors that sell internationally) To anyone who actually read all that, hope it was helpful advice, ping me w ur build if you do end up jumping into this rabbit hole!

[@KanoKendama]

The only thing keeping me back from switching tho I really want to is that I game on PC and work on Mac and hate wires or having more than 1 set of peripherals in my workspace. Rn I have both a mouse and keyboard with 2.4ghz connectivity for pc gaming and bt connectivity for work. If a day ever comes where both types of connectivity come to this formfactor i will switch INSTANTLY

[@JustAGuyWithThoughts]

Nice!nano controllers are bluetooth capable, and there are many many split wireless keebs out there, check out the Corne as a good starting point for example. You can also set a number of bluetooth profiles to swap between different devices on the fly, personally I used to run with three profiles, one for my mac, one for my windows work pc and one for my ipad.

[@christiantaylor12]

I'm not 100% sure if it solves all of what you're looking for but KVM switches exist so you would be able to use 1 keyboard, monitor, and mouse across multiple computers. I would assume you have wires running to your monitor or have it hidden and would expect you could hide the wires from the kvm to the monitor in a similar manner.

[@Laura-z2z9p]

the ferris sweep can be used over Bluetooth, the latency is negligible. the battery life is awesome

[@Goooogle]

I'm completely sold, but where can I buy one of these keyboards in Europe?

[@tbqhwyf]

You can't buy one, you need to assemble it

[@Chris-ln3xe]

I built a Redox (mentioned in beginning of video) with zero experience and had no issues. Love the thing

[@Danielo515]

You can, just search redox keyboard or things like that

[@rfmarves]

I'm using a Moonlander, by ZSA. They ship worldwide. It's not exactly the same, but works great and it's a good starting point to shrink your keyboard without any downtime. Alternatively, Bastard Keyboards offers some great options, including one with a trackball, served from Europe. An internet search will give you even more options.

[@Brianjp93]

I have a moonlander and love it

[@ppprzzi]

They are all the same, I also like nvim, sway, corne, etc., but when using home raw key, there is a problem, that is, it conflicts with vim keys, so what should I do, such as j key, usually in vim layout all down arrow keys.

[@Person1873]

the radio operators of the late 19th century called, they invented the 1 key keyboard before it was cool

[@ZigUncut]

I like to have my cursor keys (and home end etc) in a wash style layout using esdf for cursor a for line home g for line end for example

[@SalvatoreCoppola84]

Amazing!

[@MCgranat999]

I'm still wondering how would I use this with Blender or any other software with a lot of key combinations.

[@raenastra]

Having used home row mods for a while - it's not much different, but key combinations are all easier to hit

[@raenastra]

@@AlanPerfettini I haven't had any weird key combo like that, but if it comes up, you can also add mods to your symbol layer

[@raenastra]

@@AlanPerfettini True, it depends on what you need out of your setup. If you have a few of these combos you hit often, you could even assign them to single keys on another layer. Maybe that's at least more productive than Shift-Option-], which seems like it would be awkward to hit on a standard keyboard layout. Productivity is relative; putting modifiers in a comfortable spot to me is more productive than the wrist problems I had before using home row mods. Doesn't mean everyone should use it, but they work well for me.

[@jorge28624]

I guess you could get another smaller and simpler keyboard and assign those weird key combinations to its keys

[@deletedchanneI]

I know ergo-splits are about typing and productivity but is it really comfortable to game on it? Answer in video is too wide to believe

[@Zachary910]

Ye, it is better. You can have your mouse in better shoulder alignment and have a dedicated gaming layer.

[@drac8854]

What are these keyboard called? What do i enter in amazon?

[@THEMithrandir09]

So if you set your layout, do you flash the layout to the keyboard or do you just configure a driver on the PC? I am really intrigued to get a more minimal keyboard and switch to an ergonomic layout; but what you hear everywhere is that you'll forget QWERTY or become really slow at it and staying trained in both is probably really hard/will slow down learning a new layout. For my day-to-day use I expect to use other PCs a few times a week (e.g. during pair-programming or working on a server directly). Since these keyboard are so minimal, carring them around and plugging them in seems like a non-issue, but installing a config everywhere would be. Does something like the corne just register as a regular keyboard and work out of the box? Or do you have to install your configured driver everywhere?

[@enkvadrat_]

I believe they work out of the box

[@eltreum1]

The layout is saved in the firmware flash memory of the keyboard itself and requires no special software to use on a host device if USB compatible. It shows up as a USB generic keyboard/mouse and works in Linux, Mac, Windows and cell phones like any OEM USB KB. They also work as a Bluetooth keyboard if equipped with BT modules. You only need special software if you want to reprogram the keyboard by flashing its firmware with a new config image. The QMK firmware lets you store ~12 layers of keymaps with an optional website to make maps interactively if you do not know how to program MCUs. Most of these are using Arduino pro micro Atmega 32u4's as the microcontroller so they are totally customizable if you know how to code for Arduino. ESP32s and ARM MCUs are getting popular for these too because some are Arduino compatible and have built in Bluetooth wireless LE and optimized for longer battery life.

[@alanbarnett328]

When I learned Colemak Mod-dh I was around 120-140 with qwerty. It didn't take long to get Colemak to around 60, around a week or two. During this time I still did some qwerty typing tests to keep it in muscle memory, and eventually stopped using it at all unless I was at a different computer. Now 5 or so years later, and my qwerty and Colemak speeds are around 110-130. I use Colemak on all of my computers and at work, but whenever I have to switch to a coworker's computer there's no issue at all. It's definitely possible to retain both, and now after a few days of learning Dvorak on the side, using colemak for work, and qwerty every now and again, I'll have three layouts juggling around. As an aside, I'm trying Dvorak for a few reasons: doing layoutfluid typing tests (three different layouts mid-typing test), and I wanted to see how different it felt from Colemak. I'm still only 5 days and about 40wpm in so no final conclusions yet, but it's pretty fun!

[@fredeisele1895]

The presentation is done on a Mac with the old keyboard. How difficult would it be to retrofit a laptop keyboard?

[@MichaelLeonard]

It would be incredibly difficult to do significant changes to keyboard layout on any recent "unibody" MacBook since the whole body is a single piece of aluminum and has set cutouts for the keys. It would probably be doable if you start with a laptop that has a plastic top that can easily be separated from the bottom of the case. You'd then just have to figure out rewiring, 3d print a compatible top, and pick thin switches/keycaps to avoid pushing into the screen when the lid is closed. So, possible, but still not easy.

[@j03y__]

What was the 3d printed split keyboard called?

[@thecompanioncube4211]

Corne

[@MrHapini]

Nice talk

[@qwerty11111122]

I use just 5 keys. I use a combination of all 5 keys and holding pattern to get over 3000 different accessible commands /s

[@JaphethAwah]

I have the ergodoz ez and took out all the keys that i don't need, and have 36 keys

[@lefrax762]

Technically the endgame is also the first ever keyboard created : the Telegraph.

[@GuyManley]

Commenting with a ferris sweep I built myself.

[@LEXIXON]

10 keys are enough for everything!

[@LEXIXON]

Example: Your layers = shifted Your Tap Hold = long double analog magnetic keyboard = shallow / deep Combinated up Shifted = Syn(c) / Asyn(c) / and more ...

[@Moonwired]

How is thump being your strongest finger relevant, it’s not like we press keys more easily by using force. My thumbs are BY far the least dexterous digit I have with the least amount of accuracy, maybe that’s due to training. Even so, it’s a pretty dumb argument to advocate for giving it more keys to press. Not that I disagree that it can be used for more keys, it should.

[@Albaer]

I think the idea is that a strong finger is less likely to strain than a weaker one. So it's about endurance rather than force.

[@thecompanioncube4211]

Pinky has the most amount of travel dedicated to it on stadard qwerty. If you're touch typing just think about how many places pinky as to go to do stuff. Symbols like : ; " ' () {} [] Enter backspace shift control are ALL done by pinkies. It either fatigues way fast or induces bad (slowing down) habits where you use other stronger fingers to press those keys. Over use of pinky really strains your wrist muscles leading to RSI. Those things are shifted to either Thumb or Thumb+homerow mods. Also thumb being the least dextrous of all digits is simply not true as us humans have built our entire empire based on dexterity of our thumbs. It's just matter of a bit practice

[@vegetableball]

Stacking all things into XXX-tap increases so much mistakes in typing. It is not ergonomic to my brain. PS: I uses 48 keys which is more reasonable.

[@KW-oi4bi]

If using nvim + i3 in a company is weird then i guess I'm one of the weirdo

[@rodrigofoggiato]

one key morse coding my way to 10 wpm

[@whereIsJerome]

correction: 32 keys is all you need.

[@midmeh]

28 keys are all you need

[@edd6927]

His slides are incomplete, he's not showing all symbols which would be of must importance to anyone programming. Just mentioning them it's a huge oversight specially when he spent so much time on other nonsense.

[@Laura-z2z9p]

just add more layers for more symbols, not much to explain

[@typingcat]

The thumbs are working hard on smartphones, so maybe let them rest a little bit when using a PC by making them hit only one key.

[@remi1771]

No

[@kouhaiii3182]

fair

[@calmpuffin]

Fantastic!