#38: Jay DEBUNKS MECCA 15 WAYS in 30 MINUTES, followed by Q&A!

Having finished a series of 37 episodes on the historical problems with the Origins of Islam, Jay now consolidates the 3 primary areas of concern; namely, Mecca, Muhammad and the Qur'an using 3 talks he gave a few weeks ago on these 3 areas to a group of Doctors and Dentists from the "International Christian Medical and Dentistry Association" (ICMDA) an organization with over 60,000 Doctors, Nurses and Dentists.
This first talk, moderated by Dr Peter Saunders, the president of ICMDA , centered on a question he entertained concerning the historical problems with the city of Mecca.
Jay responded by pinpointing 15 historical areas of concern:
1) If this is the oldest city in history, then why is so little known about it before the 8th century?
2) If this city is so central to the Qur'an's narrative, then why is there only 1 reference to it in the entire Qur'an (Surah 48:24)?
3) Why do all the myriad of references in the Traditions of a fertile place with much vegetation and water not fit Mecca?
4) Why do the 65 geographical locations in the Qur'an fit places 600 miles to the north of Mecca, and not the city itself?
5) Why is the Arabic used in the Qur'an not from Mecca at all, but is Nabataean Aramaic, which was used over 600 miles to the north?
6) Why can't we find any remains of the almost 300 prophets who were buried in Mecca, especially considering the enormous buildings which are being constructed there?
7) Why is the earliest documented reference to Mecca not until 741 AD, a good 100 years after Muhammad supposedly lived there?
8) Why do the great geographer Ptolemy's 2nd century maps not have one reference to Mecca on them?
9) Why do all of the 7th century Qiblas face Petra, and don't even begin to face Mecca until after 715 AD, almost 100 years too late?
10) Why has Montgomery Watt's 'Trade Route Theory' about Meccan trade been proven wrong, as all the trade was maritime, and not across Arabia?
11) Why did all the trade go up the Western African coast of the Red Sea, and none of it via the Eastern Arabian coast close to where Mecca is located?
12) Why did none of the 12 civilizations surrounding Mecca know anything about this city prior to the 8th century?
13) Why was Mecca chosen in a desert location with no water or food to support any population of people or trades?
14) Why are the 5 stages of the Hajj (Pilgrimage) currently employed in Mecca not original, but were all borrowed from either Petra or Jerusalem?
15) If Mecca is the oldest city in history, then someone, somewhere, at some time should have known about this city, yet no-one anywhere, nor at any time has, proving that it never existed at the time of Muhammad, nor during early Islam.
Following this talk, Dr Saunders asked a number of brilliant questions which were posed by some of the Doctors and Dentists. Watch how Dr Smith responds to them, as they are probably the same questions you may have.
You can see the original ICMDA seminar with Dr Jay Smith and Dr Peter Saunders at this KZbin site: • Webinar: Dr Jay Smith ...
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, July 21, 2023
(82,920)

[@Digimonster90]

Not one Malaysian know about this. Not one Muslim Malaysian know about this..... Not good enough. We need to share it all over the world. Share it with love

[@AbdulDanmalan]

Don't make a fool out of yourself

[@patrickhouston2610]

Go for it, suggest do not push, it will get there sooner or later, good on you.

[@patrickhouston2610]

@@AbdulDanmalan ha ha it is unstoppable, the Internet is becoming more available to many more countries, in the dark at the moment but the light of the Internet will come, bringing the good news.

[@Aishas_Goat]

@@AbdulDanmalanhave you noticed what rhymes with “a fool”? Abdool

[@leedza]

Jay is a hero, Muslims have been cancelling criticism long before cancel culture was a thing.

[@azeez8399]

Jay is a joke. 😂

[@keyaamabrahams7984]

@@violetsplace524 The fact that Non Muslims scholars, acedemics and orientalist debunk his findings.

[@keyaamabrahams7984]

@@violetsplace524 I said Non-Muslim scholars and Acedemics and I might include historians too.

[@keyaamabrahams7984]

@@violetsplace524 You can debate that but the idea that people created the city out of nothing to coinceid with their narrative is kind of ridiculous. I said most acedemics not all debunk because some Western scholars also believe that its fictional just becuase the sources for Mecca's existence is only from Arabs and Muslim. It is only excepteble if it comes from Western sources according to them.

[@keyaamabrahams7984]

Just because a place called Mecca did not exist back in Abraham's time does not meam it did not exist or a city to forn later. Most of the stuff he says can be debunked by just goggling it.

[@christianchris6504]

Really enjoy all the videos and history lessons. God bless 🙏✝️

[@Anadoluyarimadasi]

😢😢😢😢4.000 İncil yazıldı sonradan , Kur'an ise bir tanedir , her yerde aynıdır❤❤❤❤

[@pauljansentextor1788lx]

Great summery that covers a lot of material of your PfanderFilms videos! Thanks Dr. Jay!

[@stuckinparadise9676]

Now this is the true Sword of Damocles. The three-pronged stool of Islam will be decimated just on the question of Makkah alone. We haven't even touched on Muhammad or the Quran yet!!! Amazing. It needs to get viral

[@Draezeth]

For this to go viral, it needs to be broken down into a smaller, more visual, and more consumable video format.

[@magatism]

Jay is legendry and quite underrated.

[@asifbrettishmaelmakki9]

Hi Magatism.Mary Harb and Bob the builder did a live stream a few days ago.Mary suggests that the Saudi Mecca area of today was an active area before Muhammad was born,and they dug wells,and Islam was only for Arabs.

[@akkafietje137]

Agree, but still I am afraid about his security

[@magatism]

@@akkafietje137 Yes, that is a risk, any odd group can target him to become famous. But if push comes to shove, we will return in kind. Many algerians, eritreans, nigerians, albenians, libyans, kurds, syrians, mexicans, south Americans, norsemen, vikings, irish who could take down their influencers without batting an eye for enough money.

[@akkafietje137]

@@magatism It's good to see that there are still heros, we need to pray for him

[@magatism]

@@akkafietje137 We pray for them, even for those who wish us harm. But we stand for the Good Samaritan Creed who would defend any victim irrespective of his religion, caste, creed, social station as an obligation to our God. Pray that no soul is lost...

[@freedominion7369]

Remarkable scholarship, an important discussion and thanks for posting! 🙏✝️

[@salancy3279]

❤️✝️💐🙏👍 our prayers and love, God's grace and blessings always be with you brother 🙏🙏

[@AAa-rz6sy]

Jesus never would have persecuted muslims

[@stats4861]

@@AAa-rz6sy persecution? having debates and talks about another religions legitimacy is not persecution.

[@AAa-rz6sy]

@@stats4861 I was going a bit off-topic but the point is that many people hate Muslims and accuse them of persecution when they haven't even met them. If 2 billion people were terrorists the whole world would have ended by now. This isn't to do with the video

[@foundthetruth2003]

@@AAa-rz6syI wonder what you believe?

[@collybever]

@@AAa-rz6sy He would challenge their thinking, if he believed they were wrong. He dd that with groups in his own time. He was no jihadi though, forcing his beliefs on people, he gave people the choice to listen or not.

[@user-yy3vd9vx7y]

Thank you for what you do for humanity!🙏✝️🌐2.6billions solidarity 🤝

[@democracyforall]

Jay believes in his own history ha ha ha good luck to him since no one else with brain can believe it ha ha ha

[@EtherealAiArt313]

Number been lied to by Roman's for the story of Osiris isis horus

[@houtmansimanjuntak3600]

Thank you Dr. Smith; great jobs.

[@gospelofyashua]

Absolutely brilliant, Dr. Jay. Thanks🙏

[@jamalkhan3708]

Very informative and interesting. Thank you for sharing.

[@sheikhboyardee556]

Wonderful & informative video. This sums up much of what we have already heard but it is one video. Good job!

[@j2shoes288]

You're having a laugh. He didn't even know that Egypt wasn't a islamic country until long time after uthman had dispatched copies of the Quran. What an ignoramus

[@Eli-hg5er]

In non-Islamic countries, Muslims are free to speak their faith. But in Islamic countries, anyone who carries a Bible and teaches another religion or Christianity is arrested and imprisoned. Where is the spiritual meaning in that? What are Muslims afraid of?

[@johnniewalker7512]

They are afraid of competition and comparison, what is called Comparative Teology.

[@danieladedosugbadero7373]

Christians have accepted and tolerated this double standard for far too long,

[@simonlow3039]

Afraid of truth

[@som9097]

Don't go for competition--- hence their "Jihad"

[@tropicalstrings]

They are not afraid. They want to dominate and have our money.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

May our Lord Jesus continue to bless you Dr. Jay. Your videos and collaborations with so many others have strengthened my faith in the Triune God.

[@Bebe777333]

Excellent work!

[@simonhengle8316]

Excellent Dr. Jay Smith

[@margahe9157]

Amazing, so good! 👍👍👍👍👍 and 2 extra! 👍👍

[@ryanparris1021]

Bigfoot. Loch Ness Monster. Mecca in the 7th Century. Alonzo Harris whenever this topic is raised. The most elusive things in History. In ascending order.

[@alonzoharris9049]

The trinity is three gods.

[@SaintRamona]

@@alonzoharris9049of course Your favorite punch line😂💀

[@alonzoharris9049]

@@SaintRamona I know this is your motivation. You want to try to avoid serious theological discussions. That’s why you support an online clown like Jay Smith. Your whole movement is a controlled platform with yes men without any engagement with experts in the field. You are a sect. If you are not willing to seriously engage with people. I have only one medicine for you. The trinity is three gods.🫠

[@TesseRact7228]

@@alonzoharris9049 The Muslim butt-dragon has 9 heads.

[@user-tp3hg4se1s]

​​​​​​​@@alonzoharris9049All the dammed sentenced burning in hell are now All believers in the gospel Once sentenced you are sentenced for eternity About one the one true God who came in human form died went to hell rose again and ascended into heaven to Save you from death and hell ✝️ His name is Jesus Christ to Save you!

[@collybever]

You marshalled the evidence very well there, it's very convincing about Mecca's lack of centrality before the 8C. Will be interesting to see if any muslim can respond to the arguments, rather than the usual deflections and ad hominem slurs.

[@BBFLYRISEN]

No. No they can not.👀

[@Hutchie2112]

That was amazing, enlightening and empowering. Thank you!

[@johnperry5660]

Jay Smith makes it easy for us to learn these important topics, we must all learn and then teach this material to everyone we know, THANKS DR SMITH

[@pankaja7974]

Lovely series Jaysaab. Bahut maza aaya 😍

[@EtherealAiArt313]

Baphmut shaltot

[@Letdpoorbreathe]

Great work. Thanks.❤

[@metagalaxy-go-the-distance]

Dr. Jay. Book is best option. Will it come in book form in future. If there are already, you can mention here. Thank you

[@gregash7683]

Excellent series! I like asking questions that are not tainted with anti-Islam bias. Historical claims are not accepted because they are old and previously unchallenged. Answer the questions! Provide archeological and documental evidence that is 'neutral hard evidence' showing that SIN is true. That's all that is being asked.

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

You must be very gullible to say that this series was excellent, I thought you want hard evidence but Jay the Compulsive liar is talking you for fools😅 Ask Jay to provide proof as he is making the allegations. ASK HIm * Where in the ISLAMIC NARRATIVE does it say that MECCA is the oldest city😅

[@frederickpaul8205]

Excellent brother Jay, I never knew about this history. Good job brother keep it up God Bless You.

[@Weissguys6]

Bravo! I loved the final points especially. The questioning of our faith must not shake us, it must STRENGTHEN us as we learn the truth. If you are wrong in the most important decision you can make, where you will spend eternity, don’t you want to know? May God continue to bless us all as we seek Truth. This former “raging atheist” now washed in the blood of her Precious Lord and Savior thanks you wholeheartedly. ❤️

[@Weissguys6]

@@peterfryer6915 I don’t think you want me to really write a book in the comment section, do you? 🥰😂

[@gokaek979]

Thanks Sir for your dedication to God’s work

[@ismaelsiwi9953]

God bless you Jsmit.God to see you well and in good condition..God bless you

[@leedza]

I was pondering about this, creating the parallels and reducing Islam to non-trinitarian Christianity with a belief in Jesus as the Messiah who will return to establish God's Kingdom as narrated by the Qur'an, this makes a strong basis on having the discussion on how Muslims are following Jesus and are their traditions telling them anything about being followers of Jesus. It seems the Hadith are missing the fundamental doctrine that helps them believe in Messiah and the last day.

[@Val.Kyrie.]

They’re an Arian and pagan mixed cult.

[@kaysadek5012]

Good to see you again Mr Jay, you never disappoint us came back with another great educational video god bless you my friend keep it up with the amazing work 👍

[@verity4917]

MR. JAY, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME SEARCHING, PICKING UP OBSOLETE DETAILS IN ISLAM. YOUR VIDEOS WILL NEVER PREVENT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CONVERTING TO ISLAM EVERYDAY ALL OVER THE WORLD!🤔

[@garaientinggie6104]

​@verity4917 It also doesn't prevent thousands of moslems from denounced Islam. Aljazeera claim that 16000 moslems denounced islam everyday.

[@kaysadek5012]

@@verity4917 wrong I was one of these Muslims who knew nothing about my own religion but through people especially like Dr Jay showed me all about Islam's terrible, filthy and dark side now I am a free man and feel proud of myself.

[@foundthetruth2003]

@@verity4917 Jay Smith is doing what all Christians are commanded to do : go and save the lost, he’s reached millions.

[@louisecordier9428]

@@verity4917sure they will!! Thousands are already leaving Islam everyday!

[@user-rs4ci3fn2d]

Great content

[@miltonbradley4249]

Excellent , well done 👍 when can we go see all the mecca artifacts at the MECCA MUSEUM? With all that history it must be a big building

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

There are many museums in Mecca, Medina and in Turkey, Topkapi where ancient artifacts from Islam are kept. EDUCATE YOURSELF.

[@karenthompson1337]

@@user-by7zt1ns8g nothing but an Ottoman fort has been found in Mecca, no archaeological items at all. Topkapi Museum has ridiculous things like hair supposedly from Mohammad’s beard, a couple of different sized footprints attributed to Mohammad. 😂 Even sorrier is the pitiful area in the Louvre for Islam to show its stuff - little to nothing for ancient Mecca. Islam is a fairytale like King Arthur & Camelot.

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

​@@karenthompson1337 LOGIC DICTATES that Archeological proof is required when there is no city but Mecca is there...since the time when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the foundations from Adam... QUESTION What do your bible scholars say about Mecca and Medina, instead of believing these ISLAMOPHOBES?

[@Val.Kyrie.]

@@karenthompson1337King Arthur and Camelot may he been a record of a king from the Saxon invasion. More historical than Mecca and mo.

[@karenthompson1337]

@@Val.Kyrie. yes. And Mo is likely based on a composite of a couple of actual Arab leaders who were well respected and successful.

[@user-ht8bs1pj6d]

Was in daily contact, he flew there on the back of a donkey.

[@suj3919]

Thanks WOW THAT'S AWESOME 👍

[@caroliner2029]

Thank you gentlemen for this informative and useful tutorial. God bless and strengthen you both. Listening from Australia.

[@wipo3654]

​​@pfanderfilms Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts. Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos. In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time. Many thanks, Willy from Austria

[@vdanger7669]

Could you make a video on the emergence of the Shia? What is the first historical mention, the first archeological evidence? Did the batttle of Karbala really happen or is it part of the created Mythos to explain the fitnas and the internal struggles during the early Arab conquests?

[@dmxdmx0885]

One question : during the reign of Muawiya, are there many believers like Christian, pagan, orthodox Christian, Judaism, Zoroastrian etc? Are the pagan who worship the Kaabah?

[@pammoss8984]

What a wonderful man.

[@chesterwoodring3029]

Min 24:00 ish the trade route Patricia Crone not corona. Your trade route video with Alfadi covered quite a bit. Something of import to add to the sailing I found while looking into Simon the cirene. Not sure what cirene town but I did find a place with similar name in North Africa so I charted some nautical stuff and saw that sailing to Jerusalem from middle of north Africa that 6 to 7 days can be sailed whereas journey in land would take upto 3 weeks. A boat sailing with consistency with night and day crews would generally be the fastest, cheapest, carry more cargo as noted and also safest with exception of storms, beaching, and pirates. Sailing would be done day and night and no need to stop to sleep, can sleep while sailing. The Mediterranean ideal weather conditions for most sailing. Would have been easy to talk about the one who died on the cross and resurrected, while on a boat. People talk.

[@solomonshabat4542]

Mr Jay is the Hero of the Christianity,Amen God bless you

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

The pilgrimage at the Valley of Baca in the Old Testament chapter Psalm 84:3-6 as a reference to Mecca, similar to the Quran at Surah 3:96 In the Sharḥ al-Asāṭīr, a commentary on the Samaritan midrashic chronology of the Patriarchs, it is claimed that Mecca was built by the sons of Nebaioth, the eldest son of Ismāʿīl or Ishmael. Thamudic inscriptions Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة‎, "Servant of Mecca").

[@valuesim]

Hopefully a list of the sources who back the claims will be listed and explained.

[@shamsdoha952]

No one enter Macca area except Muslims.

[@shanebomb1860]

Interesting

[@rickydensa7915]

When was the 5 pillars of Islam introduce ? If it was introduced at a very latest stage of Islam, that means, Arabia was purposely making Islam popular inorder mainly to attract Muslims all over the world to come to Mecca for the invented fifth Pillar of Islam. When every years millions and millions of Muslims coming for Pilgrimage, spending a lot of many in Mecca, for Arabia.

[@framebadger]

I miss those days when Peter was at CMF...

[@adnanrashtogi4553]

Read the book - My case against Islam by Afif Khaja,Ex muslim, Rationalist, ex Pakistani. He also has a You Tube channel named Afif Khaja.

[@user-ym5nm1mp6v]

My question; why say Mecca? 2nd question; what about Medina? I recognise Medina as the power base for Abu Bakr, and the inconsistency in Tabari's account, but if a shift was made from Petra, why to that hellscape of Mecca? Why not elevate Medina, or another location?

[@stefand1614]

The reason they unloaded i Yemen, I’ve been told, is the sail they had on the ships at the time. It was the triangular sails with the broad side up. They could not sail up the red sea with these sails so that is why the nabateans could work as traders and transport the goods on camels for them. Might that be a reason for them to unload in Yemen?

[@pfanderfilms]

The inefficient sails would explain why the traders had to come into port every evening, and thus the reason for the 5 ports all equal-distant from each other on the African Western side of the Red Sea, but not on the Eastern Arabian side. The problem with unloading in Yemen, is that you still then have to transport the items 1,250 miles by land, which requires food and water and protection, which was so expensive that to transport a ton of goods only 50 miles by land would be the same price as 1,250 miles by sea. Land was just too expensive and too dangerous, and that is why we still transport goods today by sea even today. But finally, if they did go over land like you suggest above, where is the evidence? Where are there any receipts of goods going that route? None have been found. Dr Crone researched the receipts of goods coming in from India and further East starting from the 2nd century and continuing right up to the 7th century and found that they all went by sea, for the reasons I listed above above. The fact that there was thriving sea based trade along the Red Sea for centuries before Islam seems to debunk your theories about the inefficient sails.

[@wipo3654]

​@@pfanderfilms Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts. Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos. In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time. Many thanks, Willy from Austria

[@Val.Kyrie.]

Definite article in northern Arabic makes sense. The ancient Egyptian language had a definite article, which was unique for the area. More south, languages did not have a definite article. Demotic became written Arabic. Ancient Egyptian didn’t simply get cut off from history, it spread in various forms. Including its grammar, adapted by people. It would have been a huge influence on everyone in the area through history.

[@TN-rf7nt]

I would like to see Dr. Jay take on this in greater detail. I think you're right that Ancient Egyptian must have had a tremendous impact on other languages, we just don't think of it that way because of how long it took us to understand Ancient Egyptian (thanks to the Rosetta Stone).

[@DavidBrowne-wx7cm]

Jay, the contradiction is that It could not have been both a centre of trade and a sanctuary. Sanctuaries were usually away from the settlements. It was simply a place people went to probably once a year. Yet the SIN tells us that Mecca was both. A big hole and I cannot understand why Muslims do not ask this question of their scholars.

[@alonzoharris9049]

Because Muslims and non Muslims don’t follow conspiracy theories. We don’t follow your made up speculations.

[@murielpucoe9213]

They dont confront jay because how can you confront the truth? They would have to come up with maps to show their story.

[@DavidBrowne-wx7cm]

@@irishheritage893 True but "close together" is not smack in the middle of.

[@DavidBrowne-wx7cm]

@@irishheritage893 I haven't been at all so I am impressed.

[@ingela_injeela]

When have questions ever been encouraged?

[@mrmrblueo1021]

Was the city of Petra displayed on the maps of Ptolemy ?

[@jackray1337]

Thank you.

[@edwintaber6465]

A place was needed so they had to find a place that had no history. Joseph Smith had the same problem.

[@dan_mer]

When you think about it, the teachings of Islam are so completely random, they remind me of Monty Python sketch comedy. All we are missing is the Spanish Inquisition.

[@missasinenomine]

As usual, we can hear Dr Jay Smith loud & clear. But Dr Peter Saunders is deathly quiet! Please adjust your mirophone PS, or speak louder!

[@NickFrom1228]

I think my main question is how to get into the muslim mind so that they will stop and listen. From what I've seen, they so blindly follow their clerics, it's hard to get them to look outside their conditioning.

[@Cruithne68]

If Yatrib (Medina) comes from Yitro or Jethro, Could Quraysh come from Korah?

[@JohnDee0]

I d like know where exactly is the reference for the circumambulations around the Jewish temple in Josephus Books

[@123dsj123]

This video demonstrates how formidable and powerful the evident against the existence of Mecca before the 10th century A.D. is. The deafening silence amongst the Muslim scholars in the “Court Room of Public Opinion” is proof enough that Mecca - the “supposedly” first human inhabited city - the original home of the 90-feet tall Islamic Adam and Eve, did not exist before the time of Mohammed and his personal angel (Jibril).

[@lindasavage1042]

Thank you for showing light, historical learning and study and TRUTH about the validity of Mecca in the 7th century.

[@user-eh2pv4sc7h]

False infor from Jay. Wake up!

[@amitshah911]

Always great to watch Jay smith. Very knowledgeable letting the world know the pagan religioon more amd more.

[@leedza]

SIN is myth

[@TohouBohou]

Nice 🥂

[@johnnybravo6224]

A few talking points... Allah is all knowing, but the concept of time and mathematics are not included in the 'all', because praying 50 times in a 24 hour timeframe cannot be done even if Allah knows best! Then talking back to Allah, because you don't agree with Allah (two no no's right there) because Moses, whom, Mohammad never met, and who is according to islamic traditions in no position what so ever to tell Mohammad time over time again that Allah is wrong and needs a talking to... In 'real life' Mohammad would have punished Moses and most certainly not have Moses tell Mohammad what to say to Allah, so therefore IT MUST BE A DREAM (within a dream, because flying (?) to a place that meant nothing UNLESS the city PETRA was actually Mecca as described not more than ONCE or TWICE in the qu'ran)... So Jay can you explain the above?! Jay thanks a million and keep up the great work!

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

Show me where Petra is described as MECCA in the Quran. LOGIC DICTATES that if Mohammad (saw) spoke to Allah or Moses, the Salat would not be practiced today. The 50 X 'Salats (compulsory prayer) was not the amount and reduced to 5 x...but the reward of 1 Salat = 50 Salats.

[@johnnybravo6224]

@@user-by7zt1ns8g I can't show you that, but it would make sense if Mecca was Petra, because there was no city called Mecca before the Abbasid Caliphate invented the city of Mecca, where it is situated now, halfway through the ninth century... Of course the Abbasid Caliphate was also responsible for creating the qu'ran as a way to unite and govern the Arab clans, because these savages were more busy killing each other than working for the Caliphate's cause; world domination! But because the location of Mecca is so far away from Pakistan and that combined with the stolen stories from the Jewish Tenach, they just couldn't comprehend the mistakes they were making during the fabrication of the islamic cult Mohammedanism!

[@mattilatvala4164]

I HAVE SEEN also that Mecca Hadzi can not have been very popular in earlier centuries, even when the intermittenly working aqueduct from nearby valley was built. Because of how earliest PHOTOS show how 1st Pillar (only 1) was extremely tiny and surrounded by houses. No space! Same with Zamzam, a tiny well which is sometimes nearly dry. 🤔🤔🤔 No water for masses. Even ancient or old masses!

[@Yeshua027]

Jay, I have always found your teaching on Islam very fascinating. Do you have any teachings on the Islamic Caliphate the fourth empire from the Book of Daniel, but not called by name. It would be interesting to hear your take on this including the resurrection of the new Islamic Caliphate under the Turks and their Mahdi?

[@Diogenes-fh9pp]

احسنت بروفسور جاي

[@mariostorti5767]

Jay....Where did early Mecca get it's water?

[@SamStGeorge]

Dear Dr. Smith, i am almost sure that you know this: thd Marwa is after thd Moriah. the Safa is Mount Scopos which is Har Hatsofim in Hebrew. Hatsofim is Tsofim without thd HEH in Hebrew which is equivalent to “the” in English. Therefore the Safa is after thd other mountain in Jerusalem opposite to thd Moriah mount.

[@ingela_injeela]

He says this towards the end of this video.

[@collybever]

Jay, that idea that Christianity looked deprecated because of the doubts about the Bible's authenticity and evolution, in the 19C, was that really the problem? It could factor in at the time,. In the UK the dehumanizing aspects of the Industrial revolution seems to be a big factor, then the catastrophe of the World War I, where there were such appalling things happening, such waste of life and folly. Sad that somehow God was blamed for that war, when it was essentially human pride driving the various nations that way. The churches were a bit slow to care for those battered by industrialization ,,, The pentecostal movement from the early 20C was showing from God that God is still doing the supernatural stuff, and very real, in spite of for instance biological evolution or inevitable human involvement in producing the Bible, with our humanness.

[@baraznji]

42:01 - 45:32 this a beautiful SiFi fantasy story 😊

[@dmxdmx0885]

Thanks Jay. You just destroyed Islam.

[@TohouBohou]

So many Problems to Be True (or Divine)

[@flamingchillum]

Is Petra... on your maps?

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

MECCA is Ancient and had many names - the Quran called Mecca, Bakkah. The 13 sons of Joktan, the son of Eber lived between Mesha and Sephar. Mesha is MECCA and Sephar is MEDINA (Gen 10:30)

[@dianamv1618]

Lee el capítulo completo.🙌☦

[@kamarudinhj.dolmoin8578]

Keep on challenging the truth Jay..

[@Zebred2001]

Well if Meccan archaeology is impossible due to the recent construction (destruction) boom Jedda certainly could be investigated. I'll bet they still won't find much or what they do find completely refutes the SIN!

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

Give a example

[@WarriorOFheart78]

Hello holywarriors with gods armor!good awerness aweckening!can somebody uppload debunking blogging Theology please!streanght and honor amen

[@missasinenomine]

Paul Williams is an utter fool.

[@sues232]

So helpful. Is there a way to do a video comparing The Bible to the Quran ?

[@simonlow3039]

Hot worth doing one of them is incoherent with verses that only Allah knows

[@user-yx2pk1pc8l]

I'm wondering: the end time implications of Petra. And the mosque in China surely is the farthest mosque; not Al Aksa in Jerusalem

[@tropicalstrings]

Do one about sura 6:75 and genesis 11:27 Abraham and Ibrahim are not the same. So is Ismael not Ismael and Hagar is not Hadjar. 16:57. Mo had a flying carpet so daily contact is possible on 600 miles.

[@karenfisher4170]

👏🏼

[@kevinmartin2607]

The explain of what is going to be said plus having to hear lectures in micro bits is complete confusion

[@LordByron778]

What a bravura performance!!!

[@MsBaztastic]

Jesus loves Muslims and wants them to come to him. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to question what you've been taught your whole life. People define themselves by their community, families and traditions. They believe, and that shows their loyalty and faithfulness, but if those excellent qualities are misplaced, then they are not a credit to the person especially if they've been presented with truth that clearly demonstrates that some of what they believe is a lie. If some is a lie, all must be questioned. Otherwise, that person is not following God at all but is following man because they love and believe a lie, and God does not lie.

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

Your god lie in your bible.

[@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733]

Muslims know Jesus and await his return.

[@AmyMichelleMosier]

The prophetic peace treaty will be between Israel and the Islamic countries. Yahweh is using Islam to make a point.

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

@@AmyMichelleMosier What point?

[@MsBaztastic]

@@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733 Please explain because I understand that the Shia are expecting a Messiah-like figure, but based upon what he will do and his description, the person they expect is not Jesus. They do not believe Jesus is the Son of God, nor that he died and was resurrected.

[@redmoon139]

This would have been entertaining if he was talking about the city of ElDorado. Too bad he chose a real place.

[@chuckcoleman6502]

Jay mentioned in passing that Islam is descended from Arian Christianity. That can’t be right because Arians believed in the divinity of Jesus and his being the son of God. Their differences lay in theological hair-splitting about the natures of Jesus and Holy Ghost. I believe the Ebionites were were the predecessors of Islam. They believed that Jesus was the human Messiah. There were several Messiahs in Roman Judea. Jesus was the only successful one, as it were. The Ebionites were known to have lived in Nabatea up to at least the 4th Century and persisted to least 1000. It is easy to imagine some transposing practices from Jerusalem to Petra. They also account for the Jewish Christians posited by many scholars. It’s easy to imagine Petran Ebionites changing their beliefs and practices over time to create an imperialistic proto-Islam. Unfortunately, the sources about these groups are scarce (or suppressed?)

[@samendican2124]

Thank God for Jay Smith we learnt alot about this false religion

[@user-lm4eu2mr4l]

I never could figure out how Hagar traveled 700 miles through a desert to Mecca with Ishmael and how Abraham would go visit in a day to Ishmael..in Mecca? Petra makes more sense.

[@jonathandewberry289]

New to channel. Immediately I wondered if Jay was the brother of Glenn Beck. (or Glenn Beck in a 'evil twin' goatee disguise?)

[@seanpendulum5121]

Interesting that Jerusalem nowhere mentioned in Quran...

[@charlo90952]

Maybe I missed something, but if Mecca has no history why does it exist at all in its present location? There don't seem to be any obvious reasons for this location.

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

The only reason why the missionaries come up with these theories is to malign Islam.

[@charlo90952]

@@user-by7zt1ns8g Well that's true. Bizarre how religions fight with each other. My religion's better than yours! But it is a strange and remote place to start a religion. I guess Mohammed was born there?

[@user-by7zt1ns8g]

@@charlo90952 The location of Mecca was not ''remote" when the First man built the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD, the Kaaba - it was green with rivers and animals ...only after the flood of Noah, that region became a desert and when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the same location of Adam, it attracted different Arab tribes because of the Zam-zam well. MOHAMMAD (saw) DID NOT START A NEW RELIGION He COMPLETED it.

[@charlo90952]

@@user-by7zt1ns8g Well...there's history, and then there's religion. We're just looking for the historical facts, which have no relation to what the religion teaches. If you want to believe the world was made in six days and there was a worldwide flood you're perfectly entitled to do so. Others are entitled not to believe that and look for scientific evidence of what actually happened. The scientific evidence so far points to Africa as the origin of humanity not Arabia, so the first man would have built a hut in central Africa. I suppose if Mecca has some water it must have been a watering point for camel caravans crossing the desert.

[@BionAvastar3000]

They randomly picked a place on a map and didn't think that 100s of years later people would fact check them.

[@jupite1888]

Thats the problem with society if people tried to know their religious history of Facts not what they think it is how many reasons for wars etc would end if they knew its all myth.

[@TohouBohou]

There is also a big problem with Beled (Mekka) and Yeled or Weled (Ishmael) …. Totally False !!! B Or Y (W) 🤔🤔🤔

[@patricktilton5377]

A couple things . . . 1) Although I applaud this informative takedown of the claims made about Islam by Muslim apologists, I do think that it's not a coincidence that the acronym 'SIN' is used ["Standard Islamic Narrative"], where the English word 'sin' is defined as "an offense esp[ecially] against God" [Merriam-Webster]. 2) Jay's claim that Christian apologists have thoroughly dealt with the problems Christians have been facing ever since the Documentary Hypothesis was first put forth in the 19th Century -- as well as problems regarding the supposed historicity of Jesus -- is debatable, even laughable in certain circles. If Jesus was as popular during his Ministry as the Gospels claim, then we should expect for him to have been mentioned by historians AT LEAST within the first few years after his Passion/Death/etc. -- especially the claim made in MATTHEW that a bunch of graves opened up immediately after the Crucifixion, disgorging many resurrected saints who were seen by the people of Jerusalem! But the earliest Gospels are dated by scholars to the immediate aftermath of the Jewish War [c. 70 CE and later], nearly 40 years after the time period in question. The letters of Paul are purported to have been written during the interim, yet there's not a shred of evidence from the 30s through the 70s that anybody ever made the claim to having received or read any such letters. 3) I'm of the opinion that Joseph Atwill -- in his book CAESAR'S MESSIAH -- was pretty much spot-on regarding the origins of the Christian religion being a kind of propaganda composed by the Flavians (Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian). They had the means, motive, and opportunity (and the political power) to invent new religions with which they could further control the masses. Indeed, the earliest 'popes' -- i.e. those who we're to date to the time of the Flavians in the late 60s CE -- were members of the Flavian family. Jay Smith's purpose on Earth seems to be to set the record straight regarding the claims made about Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Mecca, so I don't expect him to allow himself to get sidetracked with debating on behalf of Christian apologists an author such as Joseph Atwill. But Jay's apologetical claims ARE debatable, and it would be nice to see how well he does when up against a scholar whose 'take' on Christian origins differs so profoundly from his. What Jay has been doing to Islam's claims (working off the scholarship of guys like Dan Gibson, etc.), well, Joseph Atwill has effectively done a similar job on Christian claims, as far as I'm concerned. I've scoured the internet for any and every attempt to debunk Atwill's thesis, and none of them are convincing to me.

[@Nat-Con]

Greetings from Pakistan