$4,358,128 Taken, 5 Years Developed, No Game released

The definitive survival experience. Turns out it's the company that is fighting for survival and not the players inside the game they paid for.
Other kickstarter to court videos:
• $8,368,023 Taken, 6 Ye...
• Fraud or Fail? The Day...
• $116,684 Taken, 4 year...
• $1,645,753 Taken, 7 Ye...
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/ kirayt
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#deadmatter #2022 #kickstarter

[@MichaelB-jw5po]

It's so weird how all of these small studios start out all transparent and friendly, and then once they get their crowdfunding they immediately turn secretive and hostile towards their community.

[@cwp24]

@Baxi it’s not always the case though. Please do not generalize indie devs like that. Scams like this have existed since the 80s. Not all kickstarters or indie projects are like this. There’s way more good indie projects than bad. You just have to look for them. Please do not be closed minded and say that they are all bad, because it’s not the truth. It’s also rude and disrespectful to the indie devs who actually put in the work to make great games. Just for the record, there will always be scams like this. Not saying I’m fine with it because I’m not. But humans are susceptible to greed. There will always be people out there who do this. But understand it’s not the majority, these people are a minority.

[@kevinwebster7868]

Probably because the gaming community is a toxic cesspool of trash and all it takes in one youtuber to bash your project, warranted or not, and all the other hive minded KZbinrs jump on the bandwagon and do the same. Next thing you know you game has failed before it even gets off the ground. I would have NDA’s as well if I were a developer. The gaming community expects a pre aloha game to play like a fully debugged finished product. Gamers as a whole are F’n stupid.

[@OfficialSamuelC]

@Baxi It isn’t the case always though, is it. Otherwise we wouldn’t have tons of amazing games by indie developers. Some crowdfunded are successful. It’s idiots who think funding a game that a world leading studio would need to spend tens of millions on, is going to actually exist.

[@DNRTannen]

That's cos they meet the fringe elements of the internet that push studios into this logic. People can be real assholes online even without base incompetence from the developers, and proper PR management is an art form.

[@StabbyMcStomp]

Not scum, they crank out updates and involve the community

[@ItsJustOkay]

The moral of this story is that management is more than just a title. It is a skill, one that can make or break a company depending on how good the people in the role can do it.

[@muggins2279]

Well said, my manager needs to hear this too

[@ninianstorm6494]

@@muggins2279 need to force city officials to lower inflation/living cost for all those making below 150k per year to prove daca worth it since for ages DC never lower living cost only print dollars to do more refugee crisis left wing media give protest t-shirts to san quan mayor for lying about never receive maria supplies kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4rQdKePgapsoZI george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support = 1. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIW0ZHdnlpKdaJI 2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7Ve4V-rMeJfZo current ukraine gov is proxy since obama drew red line just like did in syria earlier arming rebels telling russia not to interfere while zelensky ethnic cleanse donbass region 7y= 2. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpKclYqImKmIhqM 3. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3PIg3Vtp7yelZo

[@Nerobyrne]

People need to stop glorifying managers. Doing that brings a ton of bad people into the job who really shouldn't be there. But maybe they just generally get off on ruling over people and there's nothing we can do?

[@ProjectRedfoot]

Yea, I have great management skills. Earlier today I managed to stuff 7 Oreos into my face at the same time!

[@sjoerdglaser2794]

Fully agreed. I'm almost amazed how people can both always complain about bad managers while the same time claiming everybody can do it

[@silmarian]

This just drives home for me that if your employer doesn't pay you on time, leave and, if needed, sue them to get your money. The entire basis of your relationship with them is based on you providing services in exchange for money. I've very rarely seen a startup make good after starting to delay payroll.

[@volundrfrey896]

A company not making payroll is the biggest red flag possible. If they can't pay you on time then they never will. As you said, leave and then sue them before all the money is gone.

[@samuraidoggy]

Sueing can be hard, if half of the employers dont live in the same country.

[@silmarian]

@@samuraidoggy Every country has different rules about this, you need (or should) to talk to a lawyer before you try and sue anyone. But staying with a company that’s stopped paying you is sunk cost fallacy and is rewarding them for bad behavior. 99+% of the time they’re not going to pay you, get out and find an employer who will. Most places (in the US) consider “I left because they stopped paying me” as grounds for collecting unemployment. Companies that stop paying use all sorts of manipulative techniques to get their “volunteers” to stay. Saying you can’t sue them is one. Don’t believe them, talk to a lawyer, many do a free or inexpensive consultation.

[@arthas640]

@@silmarian some places also give way more protection then you'd expect as an employee too. Where I live unpaid wages are first in line when it comes to debt, if a company goes bankrupt you can claim unpaid wages and get paid before creditors so even if the company can only pay off part of their debts you're still almost certain to get back wages even if they owe a ton to the bank, to suppliers, or to the government. Problem is many people dont know about that and if they dont claim those unpaid wages right away and the company pays off other debts you can get screwed.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

Plus, wage theft is a serious felony.

[@hafhdrn]

Gonna be honest, as despicable as this company is, there's a certain sick joy I get from hearing that Tencent pissed money into a dead project.

[@Dronebertios_World]

rather them than some poor sap on kickstarter.

[@mulss1]

Don't want to bring down your joy, but Tencents revenue in 2022 according to their reports has been 86 billion dollars. That would mean their investment in this project was less than lunch money for them. Totally insignificant.

[@bolts3848]

@@mulss1 agreed

[@TheManinBlack9054]

Why?

[@oniplus4545]

welp, you are not wrong, 4 million dollars for tencent is like piss amount of money to them, so.....

[@ConnorEngstromMusic]

So glad somebody actually talks about how far back this really went. I was originally going to be a music composer for this game and a couple demo tracks were even released on my channel in January of 2013. It all fell apart quickly (clearly due to leadership I could tell), and I just shook my head and laughed silently as I saw the process repeat itself over and over and over. It will never be released.

[@Frost059HD]

9 years ago! Crazy!! Scammers gonna scam. Good job on your music. Keep it up man!

[@kyotheman69]

@@Frost059HD don't think its scam just management f'd up

[@Frost059HD]

@@kyotheman69 well, they arent in court for "bad management" dude. They are in court for not delivering on TENS OF THOUSANDS of keys, not paying wages for months on months for employees, and multiple other things. That is obviously a scam. Not sure you watched the same video I did 😂😂 it may not have been with intent but they still scammed regardless.

[@alecrutz6979]

holy shit just checked the channel, dudes a legit composer wowers

[@FrostRager]

@@Frost059HD if YOU watched the video you would know they arent going to court at all. they just failed from bad management. so not sure what your ' Not sure you watched the same video I did' means because kyotheman69 is right.

[@blAkeMusic]

Ha, I made that shitty logo at 3:47! I remember that guy approaching me for some logo and inventory art (when I had no real prior experience except some DayZ concepts I posted on reddit) and I was all like, yeah, I'll do some mockups. I am really really glad that I didn't involve myself any further. Good video Kira, very informative!

[@TEKFROLOGIC]

"When nothing is less, who will you be?" Is likely what the CEO of the studio has been asking themselves for years now

[@imoffendedthatyouareoffended]

This is what we call luck. Lol. Glad you did t get caught in the shit storm bud.

[@classact9144]

What is your full name please, for legalities

[@regiluthfi]

Nice, now where's the money dude

[@mr_sauce_cooks]

It looks good

[@ingamingpc1634]

The moral of the story is don't waste your money on kickstarters that have ideas bigger than their budget or their team

[@arthas640]

kickstarters in general are kind of a shitty idea, especially since some major studios are using "indie studios" they own to get kickstarters so they dont need to front money to develop stuff. I'd only do it for someone with some proven track record personally. You're just paying for a product that may never get finished or get massive delays, I cant count how many people I've seen on sites like Patreon that get paid and never deliver, I used to be a huge fan of an animator but just recently found out he folded his channel and dropped a partially finished series, dude got paid for months for work he didnt do and based off the numbers I've seen he was getting thousands a month and didnt appear to work for nearly a year so he basically just pocketed over ten grand and walked away and that's a story I've seen play out time and time again.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

​@arthas640 exactly, patreon and kickstarters GENERAL should be illegal. We have all these SEC rules about investing in legit companies and yet no rules for this bullshit!? Wtf? It's literally incentivizing people NOT to finish projects.

[@WinslowVS]

Getting fired as a moderator was the best thing that ever happened to me in relation to Dead Matter. Nik blocking me on socials when I asked the company about the possibility of a refund was the 2nd best because I didn't have to attempt to defend his behavior any longer.

[@fallenunder]

I remember you, Winslow.

[@jackhall3959]

That Jokka fella banned me on every forum because I would tell it how it was: the game is unplayable

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

The fact that you were still a bystander does not excuse your actions as a complicit member of a rapacious dev company. You will never regain the respect you once had. Remember that for the rest of your life.

[@WinslowVS]

@@nevaehhamilton3493 I stopped being a moderator in 2018, maybe comment when you know more of the story. My problem was never with the community, it was with the community management. The clash was that I wanted them to set a better example, mostly because I was on average 20 years older than all of the devs and other mods. They acted puerile. My constant checking of them in moderator chat led to my dismissal, because the moderators and devs didn't want to be held to a higher standard. Kindly cram yourself up whatever is convenient.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

@@WinslowVS you can't tell me to do better, old man.

[@milkteamachine]

Rule of thumb, if the head of a project of this scope sounds like they're 16, it's definitely not going to happen. There are things you can't make up as you go along.

[@scottlee38]

^ This. Why did nobody else mention the "High School Teen" voice?

[@joostdriesens3984]

I think the prime motivation of the CEO was that he liked shooting zombies in computer games.. 🤦‍♂

[@confusedaf1112]

As soon as i heard him speak i was like "that sounds like a 15 yo, that is a CHILD wtf"

[@BrianHopson]

The developer of unturned did well I think.

[@therealkaz5824]

It either isn’t going to happen or will become one of the most successful things to ever be released

[@illegalskillsexception9826]

being a modder doesn't make you a game developer. Modding is a good start for game development path because it teaches you fundamentally how games are built, however as a modder you still see what the developer lets you see. there is a difference modifying something that somebody created and offered you means to tweak and creating something from scratch.

[@tomguglielmo9805]

Exactly! I left a comment now just like this, you beat me too it! Millions for mods for an already rendered, textured, finished game is absolutely insane and a robbery.

[@christophergallagher3845]

Yeah it's like a DiYer changing an electrical outlet . They have no understanding of how and why the cables get installed . Half the time they're not even sure if turned the power off properly to do the work on it lol

[@jerrysaen]

yup lmoa, just because I know how to change settings in my TV doesn't make me a TV maker

[@CouchWarrior561]

Ahahaha what? There are many and many professional game developers who also create mods in their spare time. I would even claim that most sophisticated mods are mostly created by professionals who know their art. DAYZ itself was created by professional game developer from Bohemia Interactive who had 1000+ paid hours of experience working with the engine. Such giants as REDUX or SKYBLIVION etc. developed by TEAMS of professional game developers not amateurs. With all said above Dead Matters devs are obviously amateurs 😅

[@valkyrja--]

​@@CouchWarrior561you completely missed the point. They're saying modders aren't developers, not that developers aren't modders

[@victornielsen7165]

Every zombie survival horror game the last 10 years : "A zombie survival horror game where zombies will be the least of your worries"

[@memeticgenetic5160]

Guts and Blackpowder:

[@sonny_theone654]

Toilet Paper

[@dominicdelgado1654]

Open World Never Before Seen New Take on the Genre. With high spec graphics that still look the same as 2014, and glitches everywhere.

[@bogoid]

open world, zombie, survival, mmo the four horsemen of early access

[@graycatsaderow]

Replace open world with roguelike

[@mantasr]

Game developer != Manager != Director =! Finances You may be the best coder in the world, but sometimes you need to be given directions and good feedback. Not everyone is Jonathan Blow (and even he might benefit from some No-men.) Sometimes you need brakes. Work on something manageable and expand on it later - DLC, expansion, SEQUEL, whatever.

[@USNTM2]

Good PM's are worth their weight in gold. -VBA Programmer and Indie Game Dev Hobbyist

[@giftedfox4748]

Pretty much. Even though I have been working on computers for years, I can't imagine I would be just as good as the manager because I wasn't train or taught the best ways around that. It just seems like Nik knew full well he wasn't fit so he hired a shady guy to do the job without checking up on him to see how he is doing.

[@Daiyuki117]

Who is Jonathan Blow

[@Vitorruy1]

​@@Daiyuki117 a game developer who made his own company so he could make any game he wanted without executives telling him what to do

[@gorillaau]

​@@Vitorruy1So a modrn John Carmack?

[@KTSpeedruns]

this is why I scoff when I see people saying the modders of the games should just make the games. In reality, the modders are modders instead of actual game developers for a reason. most of them, if given the chance to create something from (no engine or pre-made assets) they wouldn't know the first place to start.

[@donjean6590]

Xzuma from Hermitcraft actually put it really well in his most recent video about why mods and main features for minecraft. Mods are building onto something that is already there. It doesnt have work perfectly and is usually not built from scratch. When you suddenly have to turn around and create the systems from scratch and make sure they all work and then jnteract properly is much much harder. Code bullet has pointed it out as well. Just the actual time to physically create or retype code you slready have can be huge.

[@spinyslasher6586]

@@donjean6590 Well said. There's a big misconception about the difference between developing and modding. And this unfortunately leads to game developers getting a lot of unwarranted hate.

[@HomoErectusIsAFunnyName]

While I agree in principle (designing a whole ass game is much more complex than elaborating on an already existing one) this case isn't a great example because the mod was a shit show with constant delays too. And they never even really wanted to make the mod, they just used it to advertise their own game. DayZ is probably a better one.

[@quietblake6997]

Mildly Unrelated, because a Roblox game, is comparable to a mod, in my eyes. Nelson Sexton created Unturned, after a good run with a roblox Zombie game, I forgot its title, but Unturned turned out great, for a spell.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

Keep in mind that a game engine is basically a platform from games to be build off of. In a sense, most video games today are a "mod" of the Unity/Lumberjack/CryEngine/Unreal/Source/etc engines. And some mods become so successful they become their own standalone games, like Counter Strike. Modders can easily become game developers come up but they require the maturity and funding to succeed. The most successful are those who put their own personal time and money into it, without any expectations until they release it. Great recent examples are Among Us and Valheim.

[@bv5191]

What I've learned from Kira's channel: If you're going to make a game, invest in public relations first after that, engineers and designers.

[@Retrofire-47]

Yes; but _only_ if your priority is money. if you want to create a *game* game then you need passion born of inspiration, a vision, discipline, and a remarkable amount of time, skills, and effort.

[@commoguru]

I'm glad I grew up in the golden age of gaming when you could go to a store & buy a full game that came on a disc or cartridge and could be played without an internet connection.

[@charlesfranks1902]

Some of those games were completely horrible. I bought one game for $60, and I gave up after 5 minutes.

[@Nickayz2]

@@charlesfranks1902 Which one?

[@icecy7857]

"muh age is ze golden age"

[@Ydna1299]

@@icecy7857any age is golden compared to now

[@thumpertron]

More like the stone age.

[@mhc706]

It’s very telling that the dayz mod never asked for money, the mod just appeared and gained traction like dota in wc3. Now I don’t remember if dayz kickstarted when they went to create their standalone game, but the fact that they FINISHED the mod demonstrates they had the focus to achieve the ideas they had.

[@chrishaugh1655]

"Finished" is a loose term. That thing had TONS of problems during it's standalone development and the "finished" product is significantly less than what was promised and definitely released in a state WAY BEHIND modern zombie games.

[@thenecromorpher]

@@chrishaugh1655 You could argue that patching a game is different from developing a game, though it's more semantic/technical choice of words.

[@cooks37]

@@chrishaugh1655 Lol what? What are these "modern" zombie games that do what DayZ does? There are very few open world multiplayer zombie sandboxes and DayZ is the biggest and the best of them. The rest of them are just bad clones of DayZ that didn't add any own ideas and all of them are smaller than DayZ.

[@chrishaugh1655]

@@cooks37 DayZ is mediocre at best.

[@leafdog2714]

@@cooks37 The problem lies in the fact that the "multiplayer open world zombie sandbox" is a painfully boring execution of an outdated idea. All of them have the exact same map - twenty square miles of jack shit countryside with the occasional small town or military base. All of them have the exact same "ZOMBIES AREN'T THE ONLY THREAT" gameplay - where the actual draw of the game is that shitty "hardcore" Rust-style PvP people seem to go nuts over. All of them have the same generic scavenging mechanics - walk through dull grey rooms in barely-furnished copy-pasted buildings, the same generic base-building mechanics, the same boring guns, the same boring attachments, the same boring minimalistic UI, the same dull-ass grey n' brown graphics, the same boring zombies, the same boring environments. It makes me sleepy just thinking about it...

[@dougray30]

Your deep-dive narrative videos are terrific. I love your off-the-cuff stuff too, and I enjoy having both to choose from.

[@gdd2959]

totally agree man

[@Adamniezgodzki]

Same

[@getbelkedon994]

actually... he's ass and wrong

[@bro6568]

I fell asleep listening to this dude. His vids are perfect for listening while you’re busy or trying to get to sleep. Easy follow along narration.

[@MaraLightfoot]

I’ve just watched through all your kickstarter to court videos and I think it’s an amazing series! Super interesting and compelling. Can’t wait for the next one!

[@KiraTV1]

Thanks!

[@starmanda88]

I’m binging them now as I’ve just discovered them and my name is also Amanda. Good taste!

[@dynamic283]

As someone who’s a developer in the games industry, having good management is really important. You could have the best developers/artists in the world but with terrible management they won’t ship anything.

[@BigfryTV]

Fucking RIP Dead Matter, man. A lot of their Dev logs looked SO promising, but they just didn't execute. Edit: This video was great btw. One thing I will say is Derek also worked at NWI after the launch of Insurgency Sandstorm. Derek came in and all of a sudden, Mikee, Alex and others who were the face of the company left. I also know that a deal was being put together to have content creators make content for Sandstorm and because I had criticized some of the things NWI was doing at the time, Derek excluded me from the deal and it eventually fell through. I'll just say this: Not a fan of Derek and that is the final nail in the coffin for Dead Matter. Dudes a clown.

[@MegaTeddybearTan]

Man fry i remember watching your stream during the first few weeks of "alpha release" back when the game was chugging so hard. Shame this game went nowhere. Wonder if i can ask for a refund on steam lmao

[@wazzuppoo]

you clown were hyping it up and shilling for dead matter when everyone was messaging you what a mess it was @bigfrytv

[@SeppelSquirrel]

Why is it always men who screw things up in these videos?

[@FlyingD]

@Derek Czerkaski yeah, he's full of shit. Sounds like a spurned streamer.

[@boozypixels]

@@SaschaElble Did you actually watch the video?

[@kingjoe3rd]

In the video from 10 years ago, you can tell that Nick is super immature with his squeaky voice. In that post from 5 years ago, he was complaining about not having a place to live had he not started the Kickstarter. This is the first time the dude has ever had a job, let alone had any money of his own. This was a disaster from the get go, and anyone older than 30 should have been able to see this coming.

[@eddardgreybeard]

"I paid myself first" meaning "I lived off it and the game came second."

[@bizz7612]

The thing that sucks is I used to be Nik's friend for a breif time when we were teenagers. There were times where I truly enjoyed his company and we both used to run our own Garrysmod servers and played games together. I truly believe he wanted to do something great with this project, but he stressed himself out by trying to write all the code, micromanage the programmers and constantly recode existing systems instead of fixing old ones and then vented that stress at the team. I know there's a lot of people who think "He got what he deserved" and while I understand that, I really wish it could of gone better.

[@MrMarinus18]

I think the problem is that he never let go of that teenager inside of him. Being a manager is totally different and it means giving up most of the stuff you initially enjoyed and it's a sacrifice you have to make if you want to see the project succeed.

[@karloka1]

You two still In contact Probably not but hey

[@sthlng2180]

Could have*

[@fallenunder]

reach out to him, please. this game can still be great.

[@bizz7612]

@@fallenunder Unfortunately he's cut contact with me.

[@That_Chemist]

I love your videos - very well-made and informative! I also look to stories like these to try and avoid pitfalls as a creator myself

[@Arcademan09]

I completely forgot about Valve's Greenlight program, I wasn't aware they cancelled it either, there's so many unfinished games on there

[@N0N0111]

I want Greenlight program to come back. Mainly because steam keeps bombarding me with college project games on a daily. That Greenlight filter wall was saving me a lot from those, but now my game feed is ruined.

[@suzukimemories]

@@N0N0111 I was always with steam because they kinda filtered their stuff. But in a last few years it became filled with garbage moneygrab unity projects.

[@cericat]

@@N0N0111 Yeah Direct isn't really an improvement over greenlight, and curation has been hit or miss, some of the curators are good and care others are scammers... so much Valve could handle better.

[@Decenium]

Valve is too big for itself and stopped caring because they cant / dont want to even try to manage it all.

[@stitchfinger7678]

@@cericat Also there's the whole "you don't need written approval to be on Steam" thing You can just pay a fee and you're off to the races.

[@Papa5murf1]

It still completely boggles my mind how people can just happily GIVE their hard earned cash to a complete stranger, on the sole basis of a PROMISE...

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

How many people voted for Trump?

[@mapytrix3982]

@@princeofcupspoc9073 Please keep politics out of this.

[@danielwoods3896]

@@princeofcupspoc9073 if you’re gonna make this political for no reason, remember that it isn’t just the side you don’t like.

[@oliver_twistor]

As long as people realise the risks involved, I don't see any problem with funding a dream. I regularly invest money in small start-ups. Some fail, some succeed. But I know the risks involved. I have the same attitude with Kickstarter and similar platforms. The problem surfaces when people treat Kickstarter etc. as a store. You're not buying a product (in most cases), you're funding a project or a company. I've backed hundreds of Kickstarter projects and only three have failed, two of which were game projects. Granted, I never back singular individuals who claim they are going to make a huge and polished game for $50,000. If one employs just a little bit of critical thinking, Kickstarter isn't such a dangerous place many people make it out to be.

[@BeersAndBeatsPDX]

That's the basis of investing.

[@aSinisterKiid]

Excellent video here Kira. You put in a lot of work into researching the history and getting as many of the details right as you could and this was a brilliant documentary type video. Thanks for such a great piece of work.

[@THEspindoctor84]

This is the third video I’ve watched from this series in the last day or so. They are very interesting and high quality, keep it up!

[@37Kilo2]

Pro Tip: Don't invest in any Kickstarter campaign unless you're willing to lose your money. Especially games from unknown developers. Worse, don't give money to modders that have zero experience in managing a game studio, and running a project like this. There's a huge difference between a game mod, and a fully fledged game, yet these modders believe that because they were able to create a mod, that they're fully qualified to build a game from the ground up, and run a dev team, all in a timely matter. But, it always ends the same. These videos are proof that people are easily parted with their money. It's pretty sad.

[@RubyBlueUwU]

Exactly! It’s inherently a gamble, don’t bet money you can’t afford to lose.

[@chrimony]

Just don't back Kickstarter games, period. Their track record is atrocious.

[@suzukimemories]

Same like giving money to an addict.

[@housewilma4904]

@@chrimony so is literally most forms of bussinesses 60 percent of new ones no matter the product or service fail within 2 to 3 years.

[@LeSarthois]

That is completely bogus. Pro-tip : inspect the project you're about to fund. Who is behind, have they already done anything, and what is the scope of the game? One example : the Kickstarter for the Leisure Suit Larry 1 game remake, which involved Al Lowe. Al Lowe developped the LSL Larry from game 1 to 6, worked for Sierra OnLine for decades. Definitively someone that can be trusted. OTOH, you have small projects; someone asking up to 20 000$ to develop a simple 2D platform game. Is that out of scope even for a lone developed without experience? Certainly not. Sure you aren't gonna get an AAA title either, but you'll get what was promised. Also, many KS projects come with more than promises. Several games I backed were completed, the KS was to allow the game to be marketed, (sold in a real box, with goodies and such) for example, which mean that in many cases, a complete game was available and playable right after backing up the project. Other weren't as complete but there were lengthy gameplay footage and dev blogs being updated prior to the KS allowing you to see real progress was made. I think Spintires (which I backed up) wasn't fully available at first, but heh, the game game out and as it was promised.

[@demavend6847]

This was one of the kickstarters I contributed to and promptly forgot about later. Good to know the story of what happened. Good work, and thanks for your work!

[@greyfells2829]

So you're the guy that's funding these videos in some roundabout way.

[@demavend6847]

@@greyfells2829 Hahaha! I guess? I haven't supported anything on Kickstarter since Dead Matter though. Of the five things I had funded during that time only 1 of them actually became a reality after a long delay due to manufacturing problems. And Kira has covered 2 now including this. So 2 to go?

[@Alimthehotty219]

@@demavend6847 what are the 4 that failed and the one that failed? Interested to know

[@demavend6847]

@@Alimthehotty219 The 1 success was Xbows Keyboards, the 4 failures are Chronicles of Elyria, Dead Matter, Saga World a modular D&D thing, and SMACH Z a handheld PC for gaming.

[@LoopsPls]

This is also one of only 2 projects I've backed. The other one was successful. You may have heard of Liquid Death.

[@lilitbeglarian7942]

Been on a binge of this series- phenomenal work! tysm

[@sziklamester1244]

The problem is if you want to make a game you need also be a boss / manager and be good at finding the people around you once you can afford it. Sadly itself to be able to make content, write code or make art is not enough if you cannot racionalize what you do and the communication is a key factor to work with others.

[@JeffreydeKogel]

Damn, the entire part about mismanagement, false promises and workplace-related problems is pretty much exactly what I experienced as part of the design team on a mobile strategy game back in 2018 (which I won't name for obvious reasons), although in my case the leaders of the project were both incompetent and malevolent, which is why I was gone after about a year of development. Stuff like this has been rampant in the (indie)gaming industry for years now, but I'm glad you're covering it so extensively.

[@Dark3nedDragon]

Seeing their stretch goals, they clearly lost their minds. No way are those legit goals w/ funding that is doable.

[@providence1517]

Yeah. It brings to mind Yandere Simulator. A classic case of 'scope creep' (or was it 'feature creep' idk), where a developer keeps tacking on additional stuff and modes onto their games, rather than focusing on... well, making the game. And like Dead Matter, Yandere Simulator is nowhere near complete.

[@chris61986]

When I saw those, I thought there was no way this person has ANY experience with money or how much it costs to do anything. $60K? Then the additional tiers are each $10-15K more? Those numbers are CAD, too! If I saw this KS and the numbers I'd immediately bail because I'd know the management has no clue. A single senior engineer is going to cost $10K a month. Such massive features would take several engineers and artists months to implement at minimum. The math just doesn't work.

[@BlitZnGodzilla117]

Situations like these make me feel more grateful that ConcernedApe never really tried to oversell Stardew

[@Retrofire-47]

That guy is skilled. What he accomplished independently is a feat of engineering, art, and game design.

[@princezzl5697]

tbf basic farming sim is a much simpler task than an open world mmo whatever tf this kid was promising, if someone creating a simple farming sim was asking for crowd funding like this it’s a red flag from the jump. Paralives however seems to be taking this overselling route and probably will end up the same as this.

[@Hppjohg]

He also hasn't made any of his updates separate dlc ❤ as a sims player it's such a relief

[@KerboOnYT]

Great job on the video. The last 90 seconds is so good, I hope people caught that

[@nikkothegoblin]

Project zomboid is kinda peak zombie survival for me, and honestly I don't know if any fps game could meet or beat it. I'd like to see it though

[@ElysianAura]

Between Zomboid and 7 days to die, it really doesn't feel like survival/base building zombie stuff really has any gap for me personally.

[@mudkiptyler]

You could try Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead. I prefer a fork of it thats more gamey called Bright Nights. Zomboid is easy to drop into but cdda is addicting to me.

[@notatrollll]

I mean, zomboid being an fps is a great mix, it just needs a competent studio

[@Tnargav]

I always have wet dreams of PZ meets Tarkov.

[@nobodyspecial4676]

@@ElysianAura if dead matter was done right it could have been great

[@Duskyberry]

This is heartbreaking. How many of us hobby dev's could creating something amazing with this kind of monetary support? So sad.

[@mtpv3d]

Totally agree. And I can't understand why everyone is trying to start with such big projects without having experience and team.

[@pushkar000]

The answer is very very few of us hobby devs. He's also a "hobby dev". Trust me 99% of us looking at this being like "if I had that money..." are just as unprepared and not 1% more moral than Nick.

[@inthefade]

​@@pushkar000 I mean, it is amazing that Battlebit figured out the netcode to have 254 players and so far I haven't seen any complaints about it (though I'm sure they're coming). People are always surprised at how difficult that part is, it seems to require highly specialised and sophisticated network programming that very few people are qualified to execute, just with how devs talk about it. Many of these small devs seem to bite off more than they can chew, and they probably look to hire other ambitious but equally inexperienced programmers for their team, rather than finding a veteran developer (who probably would be hesitant and require 5x the pay).

[@SissypheanCatboy]

​@@pushkar000 If you give me even 1 million, let alone 4 million dollars, anyone with common sense and a decent moral compass would do just fine. I know I, and a lot of other people, could make the game of our dreams with $500,000 and be done with it.

[@RNDM-nd7tj]

Most hobbyists (which is clearly what the studio lead is) aren't trying to make an open world multiplayer survival game. You see this post from new hobbyist's on the unreal forums and subreddit all the time. "Im new to unreal engine and i want to make a multiplayer zombie open world survival game, is it possible in unreal?". They have no chance of succeeding and no idea what they are even asking, the sheer volume of work that goes into a project like that is insane for a large talented team with clear direction. The successful hobbyists release a small indie game with a reasonable scope and learn as they go.

[@DetectiveJones]

Really great video! I just wanted to point out the funny clip at 1:05 Better be stealthy and shoot out the lights BANG, BANG...I get it that its not supposed to be stealthy in this part, but rather showing you can shoot out the lights, I just like to imagine some guy thinking hes sneaky while shooting a unsuppressed AK at the ceiling.

[@SplashCity46]

This video needs to be added to the playlist! I love this series!

[@shadowforge]

As one of the people talked into backing this game by BigfryTV (no hate, I love the guy and he even had the decency to apologize) and put about 10 hours into the alpha/beta I think I can safely say (NDA not withstanding) that this game is a pile of complete trash and that H1Z1 was miles ahead of that laggy 5 fps pos.

[@vicariousfool]

You've done a solid job of telling a story in which ignorance alone is enough to better explain malicious intent.

[@spacecat409]

Thank you for doing this. I randomly saw this in my recommendations and I'm glad I watched it, I actually backed on the kickstarter but have given up hope, if anything at least their was no malicious intent. Again thank you

[@themrjai8362]

Been watching this channel for quiet a while, just great content. Glad to see you've gotten the appreciation you deserve.

[@TheAnnoyingVulture]

Always a good day when Kira uploads

[@snakehead7]

Your video production has gotten so much better over time. Keep up the great work man

[@KiraTV1]

Thanks, I can only take partial credit. The editor is doing a fantastic job :)

[@snakehead7]

@@KiraTV1 Nonetheless, it has been awesome to see your progress from before 50K subs. I hope you're doing well in life and in your health my friend

[@ninianstorm6494]

@@KiraTV1 need to force city officials to lower inflation/living cost for all those making below 150k per year to prove daca worth it since for ages DC never lower living cost only print dollars to do more refugee crisis left wing media give protest t-shirts to san quan mayor for lying about never receive maria supplies kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4rQdKePgapsoZI george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support = 1. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIW0ZHdnlpKdaJI 2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ7Ve4V-rMeJfZo current ukraine gov is proxy since obama drew red line just like did in syria earlier arming rebels telling russia not to interfere while zelensky ethnic cleanse donbass region 7y= 2. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpKclYqImKmIhqM 3. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3PIg3Vtp7yelZo

[@N0N0111]

I wish the fussy letters of text to be sharper. It looked a bit on the very blurry side, 4K would be nice :)

[@burntearth85]

I remember this game, it actually came to mind just the other day out of the blue. It's set in my home province, I remember seeing our new (at the time) ambulances in the trailer, but never saw it again. Thanks for the update!

[@filiphnielsen3657]

Please keep these ones coming! So interesting!

[@xm8553]

Thank you for making this video! I almost backed this game a long time ago and I saw big fry’s coverage and have been hesitantly waiting ( and waiting and waiting) for this game. But I really didn’t know most of all of this history about the dev team. And it def explains A LOT about what is going on with the project!!

[@staberinde9102]

Great video as usual, I'd honestly love to hear your take on similar stories from older games as well as new emerging stories. Like Elite or No Man's Sky, and things like closing down of the Liverpool studio that made Wipeout etc. Gl and keep up the good work

[@user-ct8my8rv9c]

I’m glad to see you still doing this kind of content

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you for editing and upleading yet another interesting documentary!

[@JKrlvgn]

On the old forum, I was Zom2D2. I had a lot of faith and patience with this game, I spent a lot of money, and I got pretty much nothing in return. On the old forum, I had more posts than literally anyone else. I tried to be helpful and tried to calm people down that were going nuts, because alphas are always a mess when the company is new. I feel like a shill. When they moved to (another) new forum, I just gave up. All of my posts were gone/wasted, and I couldn't even play the game. None of my incentives were ever called on. I can't get a refund. I don't even want to play this game anymore. What a shame. What a waste. What a disgrace. Thank you for your video, it is excellent like all the rest of your videos.

[@fonesrphunny7242]

I've stopped bothering with this, because developers rarely seem to care. Can't recall how often I posted and investigated game breaking bugs, just to never get a fix, or even a developer response.

[@jery431]

Theyve been giving out refunds for Dead Matter so are certain tiers not getting refunds??

[@giftedfox4748]

It always suck when you are fighting the war on their behalf but get tossed aside as they want to purge the old "toxic" forums. Terrible that they didn't want to promote you as a mod for the forums and just let the forums waste away like that.

[@Vitorruy1]

dude did their PR for free

[@do3807]

Come to think of it... I mean, yeah... What would you expect from Nik. It's all well and good to have an idea, and gather support, and work on it, but that doesn't really give you leadership or business management skills. Or maturity for that matter. I feel bad for the people who have been waiting on this for up to a whole decade, especially those who dropped money on it.

[@ericbolton9512]

Hahahaha! I love this! This is a fun change of pace! Keep em' coming!

[@gimma_ubtube1171]

I enjoyed the video a lot... in my opinion very interesting, well researched and differentiated but even more than that I love your final verdict

[@LupinTelegar]

A great investigative video Kira. Your efforts in putting this together shines through and shows the high quality you are producing.

[@mc_zittrer8793]

Man, I never heard of this abomination. I've spent a pretty decent chunk of time in 7 Days to Die, so it really puts in perspective how lucky we are when we see creations like this actually take off. This was like seeing a young rocket enthusiast try to make his own rocket instead of getting work at NASA.

[@mindhackz]

Not the best comparison because that’s how JPL started. More like a young rocket enthusiast who’s only played with bottle rockets before

[@zachcanreed8549]

Yeah 7 days to die is one of the “good” ones, and even that game has its problems.

[@giftedfox4748]

@@zachcanreed8549 True, but it has way more progress than Dead Matter has.

[@BeastBishop]

I have been watching your videos a lot recently for things to avoid if I do decide to launch an indie game. Thank you for making these videos.

[@littlebirdsx]

People give 7 Days shit for being in Alpha 20+ but at least they add new shit all the time and are still working on the game

[@modestgrower2017]

Love that you are pumping out material like a boss! Thanks for the content

[@YONCE8701]

Early for once! Glad you uploaded; needed the distraction. Your videos are always entertaining & educational. You've got yourself a new loyal sub for sure‼️ Keep up the good work.✌🏾

[@kanindev]

What an absolutely amazing video, as a backer (One of the first 200) I can say this video educated me on a lot of stuff I didn't know, and really opened my eyes as to how big of a fail this project really is. Thank you.

[@KiraTV1]

My pleasure

[@Diana-zp7kk]

This is a beautifully directed, greatly paced and very well done sad, heartbreaking story. Not a fraud but a dead dream. Thank you very much for this video, it was beautiful. I am watching it start to end for a third time. I hope there is more stuff like that on this channel and generally on KZbin. Very, very well done.

[@FEEAR1000]

I almost backed this game but it still seems like it will never happen..

[@codlogic7060]

I made the unfortunate mistake of backing it

[@Friendly-Unit]

@@codlogic7060 yeah, sadly did the same... dead on arrival

[@jeremygalloway1348]

Maybe if you backed it it would've given it the juice it needed to get completed lol. Joking. I hadn't heard of it until watching this video

[@joshuahensley9395]

It seems like that's a good thing

[@codlogic7060]

@@jeremygalloway1348 you were one of the lucky ones. Honestly the only reason I backed it is because I trusted BigFry another youtuber who was hyping this game up and had talked with the devs a bunch and they seemed like they had it all under control. My first time backing something on Indigogo and probably my last

[@notkenoagain]

Had no clue about dead matter but I am certainly happy I watched this very well made video! Thanks for putting out SUCH GREAT AND IN-DEPTH VIDEOS Kira!

[@thealpha3016]

Maan its pretty hard to make a hard product and come out of it on top? Just amazing quote at the end. KiraTV. God Bless You and your Content!

[@OorieLynch]

The ending was a nice touch and the title is really fitting.

[@randomrobin7773]

I remember this game being announced, I never heard anything from it and I thought it was cancelled.

[@chrishaugh1655]

You must have not paid it much attention because they did, for awhile at least, post quite the regular updates through their developer blog.

[@arielgrossman3303]

YES! Finally, another Kickstarter to court video!

[@meatbleed]

love your voice. you should consider doing audiobooks. would make a sweet fantasy narrator

[@nicklenuts]

This was a good video its crazy how stuff like this happens

[@tuskaroffalkreath1791]

Great video! It never ceases to amaze me just how much money (to say nothing of time and talent) is wasted on projects like these. Both extremely unfortunate and morbidly fascinating.

[@Stepatee]

Thanks for all the hard work, luv. Respect.

[@retro4848]

Wakey wakey, time for a follow up video!

[@sliedogg]

I remember this. I use to follow that blog. Tons of promises with no delivery.

[@brettjones9590]

Luckily I requested a refund after gaining Access to the closed alpha and being involved in the discord etc. I could tell there was a lot wrong.

[@DoggGaming]

Same. The way they let the same handful of posters in the Discord shout down anyone that had anything negative to say was a big red flag.

[@VaktheFox]

This is a story that emphasizes the concept of Hanlon’s Razor - “Never attribute to Malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”

[@Retrofire-47]

That epigram always sounded like bullshit to me. i have always hated it. from my experience: "Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice". someone doesn't make a multimillion dollar kickstarter then just fly to the Bahamas incidentally after nebulous 'problems'. and that doesn't happen over, and over, and over again.

[@acku11]

So unfortunate to hear that employees have wages withheld, and that management was such a complete mess. One thing to have a game that collapses like this, but it really sucks that the staff had a bad work environment.

[@Idkwhtpsipto]

I literally searched video game scams yesterday and didn’t really get anywhere . This morning I am glad YT has shown me your channel 😄

[@fyrestorme]

Deadmatter Team: *Can't even deliver on promise of a mod* Braindead fans: *TAKE ALL OF MY MONEY FOR A FULL AAA GAME*

[@chrimony]

Hopium.

[@cl1cka]

Star Citizen : Looks awkwardly to the side...

[@ThMindFdr]

I can bet a majority are the same braindeads that put their faith in Dead Linger and didnt learn a thing from that...The horde gunna horde...

[@mattjk5299]

Not really what happened. It was more like two separate projects, the first being smaller with way less money and commitment involved.

[@mattjk5299]

Not really what happened. It was more like two separate projects, the first being smaller with way less money and commitment involved.

[@KhainesKorner]

Honestly, as someone who is a modder (which does mean writing C#, XML, rigging and animating models... at least in my case)... crap like this is one of the reasons I keep putting off trying to work on my own game.

[@charlieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

It's crazy to watch one of these video docs about something I was there for lol, it was an interesting time

[@groslegros5619]

Thank you for your work. This video is very important.

[@chrimony]

I was wondering how they kept funding employees for so long, until the Tencent reveal.

[@STG113]

Well, check out the game "7 days to die", I've been following it since early pre-launch and the devs delivered even more than promised. It has an amazingly complex and clear craft system, a few vehicles, the terrain is totally destroyable (I always dig a very deep bunker to escape zombies at night), anyway, it's a pretty good game already and it is still considered alpha by the devs, so many new features may be yet to come.

[@lurkingone7079]

When I first heard the description of "Dead Matter" in this video I also thought of 7days. Far better in delivering. A more complete game. Yes not perfect. But they are always improving and adding stuff. You get that they know what they are doing.

[@Notsbaby]

Wow I thought 7 days was a full game this whole time. I bought it years ago and played with friends and its suck a good time none of us noticed that it was still being worked on

[@lurkingone7079]

@@Notsbaby Yeah. It´s wild. Still in an Alpha version but looking at it. It´s kinda a complete game. Maybe staying Alpha is just some internal meme. It´s an external one at this point. Or they don't feel secure for a full release yet.

[@STG113]

@@lurkingone7079 I don't see it as kinda complete, I see it as pretty much complete. It is alpha because the devs always have new ideas, improvements and adjustments they want to make. However, the way I see it, it has been complete for years now. Lol

[@lurkingone7079]

@@STG113 Yeah. As said. At this point the word "Alpha" just seems like a meme that they have going on. It is as you said pretty much a finished game. An enjoyable game with more than just the old map.

[@komos3719]

So many times I've seen projects get off of the ground from concepts, ideas and dreams but it doesn't stay afloat on that alone.

[@xDrezi]

what still boggles my mind is people who are gullible enough to give money to a company that has no credibility.

[@GlassEyeTiger]

Would be great to see an update now that the studio just did mass layoffs

[@clownworld4655]

A kid with no experience was put at the helm. Even had millions worth of funding. That says it all

[@AussieOutlaw]

LOl Seen my Comment in the Video

[@HKZTHAPIRATE]

As someone who was hoping for this game, I was dreading to see these videos starting to pop up. I honestly haven't touched dead matter since I got my key just due to how laggy of a experience it was.

[@Muimina]

Man I literally just watched your video on Identity (I never heard of it), then I started wondering "What happened to Dead Matter? Me and my friends got that years ago, we pre-ordered it" because it did look promising at the time, we were also incredibly young at the time. And now I KZbin search Dead Matter, I see you make a video on it and the title is the same as Identity and I am just heart broken but it wasn't unexpected while growing and seeing how disappointing Dead Matter was when we tried it. Now I understand. Keep in mind we pre-ordered Dead Matter several years ago while we were young, I had started to grow more and understand more by 2020 and when the game came out that something was wrong. And now I see it.

[@panzerdragoon7]

Hey. Loving all of your vids. I have another one for you to look at. A little game called Asylum from the makers of scratches. I've backed the on kickstarter waaaaay back in 2009. And all we got so far was a small backer demo on steam. They have moved from an in house dragon dev kit, to unity, to ue4 over this time span. This was when i was still in my active gaming years (early thirties) and backed for a physical copy. They do still write on discord and claim the game is still coming but its getting kinda ridiculous. Thanks and keep the vids coming.

[@Mike-hp3et]

I love your vids man! I look forward to the day you have something good to say about a game, be it a follow up, or a new story. A happy ending would be nice! Haha

[@KiraTV1]

That isn't what my content is, so you'll probably not get that here!

[@Mike-hp3et]

@@KiraTV1 wishful thinking I guess.

[@KiraTV1]

You can find happy endings elsewhere, no need to wish. Go watch a Disney movie.

[@sinnfulcat]

@@KiraTV1 i love ur accent

[@demacherius1]

As a project manager myselfe I can tell you that fear is in theory a tool to keep your project on track. In real live on the other hand it leads to freezing, missing feedback and no will from people to do any extra effort for the goal.

[@demacherius1]

@@sunny-lm2np you know that there is more than one language in the world right? Some live in countries where english is not the first language.

[@itsfine9136]

As a once hyped backer (was hoping for a 3d project zomboid) thank you for this video.

[@cryptid_momochi]

feels like whenever people think up these kinds of ideas, they forget the part where they have to *code* them, too. there's a reason the scope of most survival games is a little limited.

[@kevinb9830]

Love the concept

[@ivychu3088]

As soon as I heard zombies, I knew it'd be another scam

[@N0N0111]

haha.