$1,645,753 Taken, 7 Years Developed, Zero Game Delivered

This is the complete history of Identity RPG, one of the MMORPG games that benefited massively from the 2011-2016 boom of kickstarter funding for similar games. They developed for 7 years and delivered...Almost nothing.
Other kickstarter to court videos:
• $8,368,023 Taken, 6 Ye...
• Fraud or Fail? The Day...
• $116,684 Taken, 4 year...
Identity is a modern-day open-world MMORPG with complete freedom and a focus on player interaction, from Asylum Entertainment.
GET NORDVPN and help support me:
go.nordvpn.net...
USE COUPON CODE: kiratv
Want to support me further? I now have a Patreon.
/ kirayt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow my twitch! / kiraonttv
Join My Discord! - / discord
------------------------------------------------------------
#mmorpg #kickstarter #identityrpg

[@DameGevMedia]

It always surprises me how many people imagine making a MMORPG as their first game, it’s literally one of the most expensive routes in game design to go down and typically is only possible to create if you have access to a AAA budget and all of the resources and experience that come from a large games studio. A million dollars sounds like a lot of money but in MMORPG terms it’s a drop in the ocean when you know how much these games actually cost to create.

[@vollkerball1]

"Yeah, lets create the hardest type of game on our first try" Just this should be a red flag

[@greenislandserenade1]

yeah, the salary of an entry level/non-senior software engineer alone is 100-200k USD base/year these days, hire 5-6 of them and your million dollar budget is already used up... a million is literally nothing when teams of people need to do development work. that's not even including infrastructure and other costs, just paying people to do dev work

[@themotorcyclemasswhole]

How hard can it be? Millions in hardware, millions in recurring expenses such as salaries, rent, servers, software licenses, utilities, insurance. Retention of multiple Experts in over a dozen fields. Billions of lines of code and a distribution network. Easy-peazy for your average advanced game developing billionaire

[@uselessDM]

Probably because you can sell them to the public easily, because the more you promise the better and the best part, the more you promise the less specific you have to be on the details, because there is so much to talk about anyway that people that want to believe you buy into it quite quickly. A game where you can do everything is a great pitch for a kickstarter, but a terrible thing to have to make.

[@voxdraconia4035]

I guess many just think its easier because they imagine just creating a world which gets populated by players doing there thing. No need for a coherent story, voice acting, cutscenes, also the promise of consistent revenue once released, it pays for itself and so on. ... Delusional...

[@GummoNZ]

Checking Steam for positive reviews: "Game is so buggy even my review is wrong" "Game is supposed to be about cops and robbers, well they got the robbers part right"

[@wizzotizzo]

@Actually im your father hey dad

[@FalconRS]

At least he delivered...something. Elyria exists in Caspian's imagination only.

[@falco9956]

@@FalconRS LOL! Now THAT is an utterly painful truth!

[@Robertz1986]

@@FalconRS False, Elyria is a ghetto city just to the west of Cleveland here in Ohio, and it is filled with drug addicts and crime.

[@xbon1]

Report toxic positive reviews to save people from thinking people recommend it. They will be removed.

[@toughasdough]

"Hey guys! I have no experience in game dev but I have PASSION and AMBITION! For my first game I will make an MMORPG where you can do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING! Sounds cool right? Give money please!" Backers: "Yeah, sounds legit to me!"

[@evantambolang3052]

Dude also look like the NPC on his unfinished game

[@janhergenrother6544]

Laughs in no funding for my Events Despite of beeing a traind eventmanager... people love to Fund passion not profession

[@yarpen26]

People shake their heads at indie gamedevs who keep their first outings quiet until they're ready for launch (typically to middling reviews at best because of the lack of playtesting-yielded feedback), but at the very least those guys know one thing about themselves: that nothing burns up quite as quickly as the zeal to code your dream game. So they're afraid to promise anything until they know for a fact they will deliver.

[@Idontwannashutup]

Did this vid even mention they’re the same devs behind the asylum servers on arma3? Same guys. Same p2w garbage on the site that they did on the arma server as well. It was one of their main selling pitches to get people to pledge iirc

[@intaze]

i saw the title and immediately thought yandere simulator💀 but then again it’s been wayyyy more than 7 years and still no game

[@Cerise__]

It delivered one of the best Speed running communities of all time (Yandere discord ban) , I'd say it was worth it.

[@zoneofendless6501]

Lmao,okay you have a good point

[@reubs]

I actually worked on this game way back in the day and immediately realised how much the devs were in over their head. It always shocks me that people think they can make a game this ambitious for $1.5M - if you claimed you could build a skyscraper for $1.5M you’d be laughed out of the room, but switch it to a game and suddenly it seems plausible.

[@anaryl]

Heaps of single man dev teams have done better with way less. Look at Void Destroyer (1 and 2); or Evochron legacy. You'd be very surprised what a single motivated dev can accomplish on their own. Hundreds of examples like that. Maybe you just weren't very good at your job.

[@DarkCloud3000]

Tbf, it’s the people that thought a game like this could be made for 1.5 million. The only way this game can work if an investor is interested enough to give them around 25 million to start getting something made. And honestly, I think the devs were hoping for an investor from the beginning.

[@klausstock8020]

Actually, it wasn't $1.5M. The Kickstarter goal was $0.15M. It was just that people couldn't stop yelling "shut up and take my money" so they ended up with $1.5M. I guess everyone thought "$150k for an unlimited open-world game...if we raise it to $1.5 it will be ten times as unlimited! Woot! Shut up and take my money!!!11212!!!!!!"

[@dreamz2134]

Hey reubs, nice to see a friendly face here! Just wanted to say I love what you do and am a proud user of your narrative plugin :)

[@ThTcraftFTW]

@@anarylYou sure aren’t the brightest bulb in the shed lmao

[@rustyshakkleford]

Giving an inexperienced business person a blank check and no accountability is always going to end poorly. Especially when their idea is essentially Second Life.

[@sunsszs]

Im pretty sure he had the vision yet inexperience. Hes prob envisioning too much that when he felt he cannot reach it he slowly gave up over the years and just trying to produce a product

[@Klonkus]

It always blows my mind to see second life mentioned, I cannot imagine anyone left playing it isnt some decrepit lunatic by now

[@VulcanHeStan]

@@Klonkus I mean... Decrepit no, but perhaps a lunatic? Memes aside, I still hop on to chat with friends on occasion

[@Easy420skate]

they were no more than any other kid with a dream game and decided to ask for funding while not really knowing how to do everything and just like the idea.

[@totheknee]

Same for an experienced business person. I don't get your point. Money corrupts, full stop.

[@cadetrenew]

This is why I love Project Zomboid. It has incredibly in-depth game mechanics and is a small studio. To counter this and make it work, they limited the graphics to a top-down retro style graphical style so that they could focus on the actual mechanics. And to be honest, it totally works. I actually dig the art style. They delivered because they didn't absolutely shoot for the moon and promise things that would have been near impossible to achieve. What resulted was quite possibly the best zombie survival game in existence that is constantly improving. THATS how you make a great game. Know your limitations and focus on making what you can make the best it can be.

[@quickhistory5486]

Project Zomboid is absolutely incredible, the closest game I've found to World War Z (the novel). It is such a major accomplishment, and the weight of effort that has gone into it is beyond remarkable. I've owned it for years and I was so glad to see it finally popping off in the way it truly deserves.

[@KotatkoVonDrapek]

just play CDDA

[@kkdraws9052]

I also would like to give a shoutout to stardew valley. I believe a small company made it, and it's a very solid farming game with a surprising amount of content and secrets.

[@draconisdemiurge]

​@@kkdraws9052 One man, actually. Eric "ConcernedApe" Barone is a god.

[@kkdraws9052]

@@draconisdemiurge One man is insane I had no idea

[@vel_cube]

watching this video actually brought me back to when me and my best friend discovered Identity back in 2016 and put $20 into its crowdfunding. being early teens, we were really excited about this game and we wouldn’t stop talking about it for nearly a week whenever we hung out. over time though we played other games on steam and eventually forgot about Identity. now i could be mad because i practically wasted $20 but in the end me and my friend only put, well, $20 into it. but i understand everyones frustration for putting ANY money into Identity and not getting what they were promised. pretty sad that it became nothing but a $1 million dollar promise.

[@cole8834]

I actually believe a lot of these "scam MMO's" get a lot* of work done before they actually test out online play; then the bleak reality hits them: you can't have infinite bajillion things for each player to do in a persistent online world without the game breaking spectacularly.

[@LittleRainGames]

Youre definitly right.

[@gold9994]

"MMO" should not be made by Indie devs this day.

[@zswede]

@@gold9994 star citizen?

[@catdey]

@@gold9994 I think it's fine for people to try but they shouldn't be able to get money for it until they have a base multiplayer proto type so they actually have the understanding of how massive and ambitious it is to create something like this

[@FeeshCTRL]

@@zswede Star Citizen is still in development over 12 years later, and no 1.0 in sight

[@Llando]

it takes 10 years for a major AAA studio to make a strong MMO, who in their right mind thought 9 people were enough?

[@tau434]

I used to be really into the modding community and if it’s taught me anything, it’s that the ego trip is real. I remember one guy who swore that he was going to remake the whole history of the world in a popular RPG - and do it with only 10 people (half of which were “history researchers”). About a few weeks in, he announces that “working with a team is tiresome”, proceeds to fire everyone, and claims he’ll finish it alone. Surprise surprise it turned out he had made zero progress on anything, but he did get a huge spotlight of attention for his hoax.

[@floydpulley3509]

@@tau434 it'll come. Lool

[@damiester1]

Streamers and their fans do lol. They constantly use modders as examples of why professional developers are apparently "lazy". It's people who never had to actually work on game development who are the loudest critics of game developments.

[@blizyon30fps86]

@@damiester1 exactly modding is incomparable to actual development

[@mentalasylumescapee6389]

"Grand Theft Auto V was developed by more than 1,000 people across multiple Rockstar Games studios"

[@UmbreonMessiah]

The early days of Kickstarter really were kind of silly, when you think about it. There were actually people out there who saw the claim that you could make a game that huge for $200,000 and said "YEAH THAT SOUNDS REASONABLE." The amount they ended up with wouldn't be enough to make 1 square mile of the game they claimed they wanted to make.

[@duskworker8469]

it was sillier than that, people got crowdfunded over a million dollars for posting a pancake recipe or whatever as a meme

[@TheAttendee]

Had a friend in college make one saying it was for him buying weed for $40. He got over $200 before kickstarter shut it down. lmao

[@SoldMySoul45]

@@duskworker8469I remember the Potato Salad Kickstarter made over $50,000. I wish I had that idea back then 😔

[@yarpen26]

I grew to loathe anything with a crowdfunding campaign in any way involved, especially seeing as the idea seemed to turn so many established names in the industry turn to the dark side. Just seeing those tear-jerking videos of the puppy-eyed creator saying how "Now we need YOUR [cue finger pointing at camera] support to turn that dream into reality" made me want to puke. I'm glad the fad is largely gone or at least doesn't get nearly as much publicity.

[@bioLarzen]

Always hugely appreciated when a video of this kind is not a stock footage fest.

[@anthonyt219]

Lmao for real

[@ginogatash4030]

Or gameplay.

[@ares106]

“Massively multiplayer, Do everything, become anything, everything in the game is player driven.” When are people going to stop throwing money at these projects and realize these games don’t exist for a reason. Because they are fundamentally flawed from conception.

[@Raums]

Yeah it’s an impossible scenario without players willing to do the boring jobs standing in shops all day, being victims, being “fun cows” as a supporting cast for a tiny number of players with freedom. Not going to happen.

[@ElShogoso]

Why?

[@phj9894]

@@ElShogoso almost every gamers want to do fun things in upper hands, not boring but mandatory jobs. In real life we must do jobs even if we don't like it to make our living, but in a video game there's no reason to do such boring things. If everything including economy, public security and etc are player driven and there's no rules restricting the freedom the game's society will get destroyed in a matter of time.

[@ares106]

Additionally, games in general need a focus. You can’t feasibly simulate an entire universe and every single possibility in a game down to the atoms. Nor would it be a good idea if we had the technology. Reminds me of an old saying: “those who try to defend everywhere defend nowhere”

[@PanduPoluan]

Second Life comes quite close, though.

[@DangerousDevilOfficial]

I am an independent music artist and film maker. What this guy did, would be the equivalent of me trying to make an Avengers movie with one friend helping me. This is absolutely nuts! 🤦‍♂️

[@zacharyantle7940]

I’m an aspiring indie filmmaker and stuff like this makes me so mad! What kind of movies have you made?

[@otneyat]

lmao

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Sameeee

[@DangerousDevilOfficial]

@@zacharyantle7940 I have done a number of short music films. As well as a couple of public service messages on depression and s*****e. I am working on the scripts of two feature length horror films. The thing about both of these films, is they are like nothing else that has ever been made. That I am aware of. Very original. But of course I would need to secure financing to make them a reality. I have also worked on major film series, for bigger studios. And independent studios. In Utah and Hollywood.

[@anaryl]

Just fix it all in post.

[@ashleajon]

Shout out to Team Cherry for making Hollow Knight, a partly crowdfunded game with loads of content, that actually delivered, and is pretty damn good

[@serraramayfield9230]

Yeah...I hope to god their sequel doesn't go down this route.

[@Bankai2169]

@@serraramayfield9230the difference is their sequel is internally funded I believe. Iirc Hollow Knight was in development hell for a long time too, but they absolutely delivered in creating one of my favorite games of all time! My point being TC went through some stuff, but they at least delivered

[@tydshiin5783]

​@@Bankai2169I would not be surprised that SS takes this long because of the same internal disputes for creative directions

[@Man_Aslume]

I'm waiting for individual tomato to release Full Peasent

[@sealover7134]

Yeah, for real. SilkSong is gonna be really good I feel, but I do wish at least some news would show up. That said, I will wait as long as I must.

[@LilyLovecraft]

I once dumped a guy because he was still, 10 years later, confident that the 5 THOUSAND dollars he gave star citizen was well spent.

[@qaywsxedcrfvful]

Smart decision

[@J05Hization]

Idk man. Unconditional loyalty is a desirable quality

[@Mark-se4dr]

still donating??

[@oblock312stonyhunga3]

Oh no don't tell me he had cartoon stickers on a tuner ride....

[@Yock1980]

When a developer focuses on in game assets before the actual game it self you know there is something wrong.

[@toddtaylor6506]

By now everyone should be wary of anyone that says, "you'll be able to do ANYTHING in our game".

[@GerardMenvussa]

But don't worry. The only thing left to do is "just" the servers and network. Easy! XD

[@Gopherzooka]

how would you make a game without assets exactly?

[@Ashley.D]

@@Gopherzooka Use placeholders while developing and refining the mechanics, then polish with new assets late in the project when you've got a working game that's not likely to change significantly before release.

[@Yock1980]

@@Gopherzooka You use place holders. Don't know if you have ever noticed, but in some games if you fx. get to areas you are not meant to, specially unfinished areas in MMOs, you will most of the time see things like big checker marked boxes or other place holder graphics. There's no reason to waste resources on something if you find the basic of the game just won't work. In many games in early development you will also see fx. characters as simple wireframes instead of detailed graphics because you wan't it to work first and foremost. You can ofc. make all the assets first but that is more in hope that anything else. Maybe the game design suddenly change mid development or small things like the size of objects have changed, that leaves you with a lot of wasted time having made those assets. Many scam projects usually just throw a little graphics together because that's easier than to actually code something.

[@generaldreagonlps6889]

"Do anything you want." the hint that you really shouldn't put money in a project like that.

[@Anna-md5nc]

Even if they made a game exactly like the trailer promised it'd be so boring so quick. People just don't behave how you're hoping they will.

[@anzaca1]

It sounds like you'd end up like Rust. Allowing players to do literally anything will only result in some players ruining the game.

[@stagthechainsawbeserker3926]

@@anzaca1 Well private servers and like nopixel with gta v online so it could work but it would need strict rules and a structure of some kind.

[@StarContract]

What if what you want to do is to get scammed?

[@danusorn8655]

Yeah sounds like, You wanna ruin others experiences playing the game? Do it.

[@hiimjustin8826]

Stories like these really illustrate how monumental a task it is to create videogames

[@idlegameplayer3756]

*good videogames

[@M0butu]

Wrong. You just have to follow the golden rule: Think big, start small. And not with an MMORPG.

[@Potatinized]

yeah, as a technical director in a game company, I can say the delays they are having usually comes from underestimation and poor planning of beginner developers. typical rule of thumbs that we have that indie devs ignores nowadays: -20% developing, 80% debugging. so allocate your schedule properly. -If you dont have the resources to multitask, starts with gameplay first, then graphics. this one is ignored by majority of indie devs. Why? because good graphic gets money in. But overusing it will doom your project to fail.

[@aceofspades1701]

nah, every triple A game title from 2020-2023 were utter trash. Riddled with bugs, and minor content. Indie devs know better

[@Potatinized]

@@aceofspades1701 AAA games are filled with beginner devs, and indie games most of the times have experienced ones that had enough working with major companies. But that doesnt mean they're better than AAA devs. the issue you're saying about AAA games are the result of investors' decisions. not devs.

[@livwake]

@@aceofspades1701elden ring? Bauder’s gate? Mario wonder?

[@StarCandyyyy]

Kinda sounds like chibimation's downfall

[@DavidTheGuy239]

I feel like a lot of people forget. In order to make a game like this, you need a good base. Just like with a skyscraper, you need a good foundation. A lot of people want to make the best games at start, but its optimal to make a small game first, then continuously update it into the desirable state.

[@nicolle2126]

i agree. Games should have gameplay as the most important element. I always think of nintendo showing the prototypes for splatoon where all the assets are basically just polygons with little to no colors, but the concept of the gameplay loop was there. And why a lot of successful indie games are from game jams that just get developed and more polished later on

[@arts6821]

@@nicolle2126 This reminds me of a video showing the progress the people made at Pixar for Monster Inc. At first it was nothing more than a few sketches of an idea, next it was a very crude animation with hardly any animating in the models, and finally it was nailing down the animations getting them to look good. This is how everything should be done no matter what industry you're in. If the core concept of your idea is lacking no amount of polishing and finishing touches will make it good.

[@deletedwaffles]

Come on, naming a company "Phony Games Inc" should be a very clear indication that something is very sketchy.

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

lmao how is no one pointing out that troll

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

It's not sketchy, it's Asylum's CEO unzipping his pants and pissing on the people who gave him money to build Identity MMO.

[@Marduk401]

you take names too literally, and now your name is starting to worry me.

[@unbanned6175]

@@Marduk401 would be different if dads started disappearing, but since this company was literally a bunch of phonies..

[@santosic]

That would have immediately raised all sorts of red flags if I hadn't already been suspicious by then lol.

[@tom.in.barcelona]

I remember when this happened - when the Kickstarter campaign was first announced - and I remember thinking: "hmm, AAA studios haven't yet been able to deliver a game like this yet, and this unknown tiny new team is gonna do it?" - but i understand so many WANTING to believe it was possible. it sounded so compelling

[@leodolterf]

its a real thing now :D

[@doktormerlin]

its basically DayZ again. DayZ was a massive mod for Arma 2, Altis Life was a massive mod for Arma 3. Well, DayZ Devs at least worked on Arma 2, so they had a lot more credibility. But it was pretty similar that an Arma mod had potential for something new and we can see with GTAV RP that the concept still has desire. Yet somehow the mods work better than the actual games created with the RP concept

[@fearlesswee5036]

I never understood the supposed appeal behind these "Hyper-realistic game where you can have a job and go to clubs and socialize and walk around and drive cars and-" because that's just like...real life? You can just go outside and do all that for free right now, no kickstarter MMORPG backing required.

[@CyberMetalOverlord]

You know how people are though, they have a chronic fear of touching grass.

[@johnnymitnick]

Bruh this was such a deep thought. Why even have FIFA if people can just train and become soccer players? Why have SIMS when you can just move your entire life and start a new in a new city? What dingus level thought process lead to your comment 😂

[@cmongler8353]

Sometimes it allows people to do things or own things realistically they could never do nor never own. I can own a Multi-million dollar mansion in a game that I know realistically I would never be able to own. I can commit crimes in a game and not face legal penalties and years of my life lost that would happen if I did that in real life that's why these hyper realistic roleplaying games appeal to people. Second Life, FiveM, RedM, Altis Life are all examples of roleplaying games or mods that allow people to do things or own things they cant in Real Life.

[@jess648]

its hilarious how many “MMORPGs that simulate modern society” scams have been made

[@oliver_twistor]

I have recently begun to think that maybe the scam is the simulation, the game---like a perfomance art installation. It reminds me of an artist here in Sweden who ran off with a public grant he received to make art, and he called the theft itself art. And the head of the museum that gave him that grant wasn't even mad, he was very intrigued by the "provocative art". Art people are really special.

[@jess648]

@@oliver_twistor that is very interesting to think about but most of the time its like most other scams where they get stupid people with lots of disposable income to invest with no intention to ever deliver a product and run off with the money even though they fake progress

[@blazaybla22]

@@oliver_twistor Interesting do you remember the name of either of them?

[@oliver_twistor]

@@blazaybla22 I looked it up and I was wrong. It was in Denmark, not Sweden. The artist is Jens Haaning and the museum is Kunstens Museum in Ålborg, Denmark. The art piece, consisting of two empty frames is called "Take the money and run". I guess it happened in September 2021, at least that's when I heard about it in Swedish media. Update: I saw that Sweden's Radio published an update to the story in February this year where they said that the museum has sued the artist for failing to return the money, and some Danish art critics believe that the empty frames will be worth millions of Danish kronor. A truly bizarre story.

[@zad_rasera]

People wanted to escape real life so bad

[@lebitelexie9350]

Any time a kickstarer MMO's game idea is "Be a criminal or police or paramedic, do whatever you want" is immediately a forest of red flags. How people can fall for them, I will never wrap my head around.

[@gravl7522]

True, but before Paratus dedicated all of his developing time to identity, he led a successful server on Arma 3 that was just that, you could be a criminal, cop, medic, bounty hunter, etc, so given the leadership position he had in that server for quite some time many people believed this was completely possible and doable with him at the helm

[@lebitelexie9350]

@@gravl7522 Yeaaah. But Arma 3 provided a steady frame for a... MOD! Thats really, really different. Promising a full game with more detail than a GTA and saying that you will be able to do whatever you want in this MMO is a way out of propotion promise. And trying to create an MMO as your first game is almost always ends up in failure. You need massive budget to create a functional MMO and a massive team.

[@Demortixx]

Exactly

[@thepizzaman2013]

It just sounds too good to be true, that’s how people fall for these.

[@neoqwerty]

@@lebitelexie9350 I mean, you could technically do it if you developed an universal system that uses the same mechanics for a medicine check, or social checks, or political checks, or martial/combat checks, and then worked a stats system that can be used for multiple situations-- my first thought was the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system of Fallout, with some subskills for specializations that's still relatively broad and doesn't go into D&D levels of 1200 skills to pick from. Pair with an improved Oblivion-style system where the more you use a skill during a level the more bonuses you get when you level up to the next part, but you COULD just pick a less strong skill to boost instead of your best...

[@MrNb22]

Sad, it's a neat concept. The whole "put furniture in your apartment" thing has been around in 3d since at least Everquest 2. I like things I saw here like lamps needing to be close to the sockets - it's cute. If they just released a "model your apartment" game, it would probably have retailed fine at the $20 range.

[@1crazypj]

Probably cheaper than that? I remember getting a '3D Home Improvement' planning CD around 1998 for $16.99 plus a lot of trial software for free

[@klausstock8020]

"if you put books on the shelf they are actually visible" -- yes, groundbreaking concept.

[@JohnZombi88]

House Flipper does this and it gets major updates lol

[@stephens.3483]

The whole "put your furniture in your apartment" thing has been around for a lot longer. Probably since at least the stone age :)

[@transecho]

​@@stephens.3483can't believe the cavemen built massive apartment complexes

[@bmbpdk]

Hello Sir. This is the second video i watch from you, and may i say that i have not regretted spending the time watching. You have a very pleasent, calm and relaxed voice, without being boring, you dont use childish words or raise your voice. The way you present and create your videoes are really nice; they show respect, maturity, integrety and trust. The amount of research and editing put into these videoes are just amazing. If paid TV channels had just half of what you put into your videoes... Greetings from Denmark!

[@nelisezpasce]

Danes never lie! You're saying nothing but facts!

[@bmbpdk]

@@nelisezpasce #fact LOL

[@skaruts]

The problem with the world is that when you tell people they're being scammed, they'll turn on you, call you a hater and kick you out.

[@thomasoates3003]

"It is easier to fool somebody than convince them they have been fooled." Mark Twain.

[@Jad-TV]

Read the 48 laws of power, and you will understand why they do that.

[@lightbringerpip]

I was actually on the moderation and testing team for Identity. It had a long history and truthfully started out as something real. But over time there was a slow gradual decline and clearly a lack of skill required for anything to actually develop. It’s crazy to see a video talking about this project today

[@KuzkayDev]

@@denis2381 He aint lying, I remember him being in the staff team...

[@lightbringerpip]

@@KuzkayDev holy shit. And I remember your name!

[@KuzkayDev]

@@lightbringerpip haha, awesome

[@lightbringerpip]

@@KuzkayDev Hey, Kuz? How is the server still? I tried now and then to pop my head in every so many months but they eventually added verification bots to access any channels. Olio and Hairy still shilling this shit?

[@BevinEG]

@@lightbringerpip Yeah, he is.

[@YourComputerExpert]

29:46 "Only the matchmaking/servers bit left" .... lol "Only"

[@aceofdaspades]

I had high hopes for this game to kick off and was an early backer. When the time to actually get my promised key to experience the game from what I could remember it wouldn't accept my key or my log in was supposedly invalid or something to that nature. Well after waiting years for this moment I decided to just wait for a bigger release. Well here I am 4 months after the release of this video in which before seeing this video was still under the assumption that it was still in development. I extremely appreciate all the time people put into investigating these matters and giving us the ugly truth. I honestly originally wanted the hat from my supposed backing package which I guess development of that may have experienced technical setbacks as well, lol. From what I have learned about business is don't promise anything, overinflate your suspected budget and most importantly don't blow the budget on things that have nothing to do with development like a personal house. The first 2-5yrs the owner should be making next to nothing and everything else goes back into the business.

[@Wisprsinthedrk]

I remember coming across this in highschool and being so hyped for the idea. However, after navigating away from the project page I was never able to find it again due to having forgotten the project name. It was something that I always thought back on occasionally and as I got older I slowly realized that it was either a scam or a stupidly overambitious project that never had a chance. Sometimes I wondered if it was just something I had imagined. There is something so satisfying about finding this video and getting the full story.

[@rothroth8127]

Holy shit we are on the excact same boat. Without remembering the title, I spent the last several months trying to find this game and this video just pop in in the recommendation recently.

[@TeteBruleeFR]

Good thing you did not managed to remember the name back then. Chances are, if you did, you would have been caught on the hype train, feending on everything findable on forums and whatnot, and you would have lost a fair bit of money (maybe?) Even without financial loss, the disappointment hit hard...

[@kuroganezero6500]

Same! When I clicked this video, I was pretty shocked to find out that it was talking about Identity and relieved to finally know the name again haha

[@DVMovies1999]

Had the exact same experience. Also being in highschool at the time, meant i had to no money to back the project. So happy I didn’t..

[@Rockmanbalboa]

I also remember seeing the game when younger, i also didn't remember the name, but i remember that my young brother said to not believe the game much and be careful, also i remember there was some other games that showed the same idea so it was harder to remember, i never got the energy to really search the game till finding this video.

[@piskipa]

As an independent developer myself; the sole thought of making an MMO on my own (or with a small team) is absolutely nuts. Why do all these people that have no idea what they are doing think that making an MMO is just about having a mid-at-best budget? MMOs are not only extremely expensive to develop, but extremely complex.. even the biggest studios in the world struggle with MMOs; there's just no way that 2 friends will be able to pull it off.

[@mow123]

Well there is a game called Project gorgon that is a mmo made by 2 people. It has been quite slow to develop, but the early access version is very playable and has lots of stuff in it and it is still being updated. However the game is much more low tech/old as far a graphics and even old style gameplay. Also the project has been active for a very long time, the first kickstart for it failed in 2012, then in 2015 was successful and it only got $74k. It's all about how well it's managed and knowing how to make the game as well as making a realistic end goal. But yeah, your typical MMO that is modern is basically impossible to make. Even the hot mess that fallout 76 was is waaay over identity's budget, staff and skill level... and fallout 76 was a dumpster fire at launch.... even the highest end devs create dumpster fires so why would Joe down the street make something good with a few million. I think that was the problem, the gamers/funders aren't game developers so they don't understand very simple things like costs and being absurdly unrealistic.

[@vaiyt]

They're great for over ambitious promises that get people to give yoy money.

[@juter1122]

@@mow123 quality cheap fast Pick two

[@SmartK8]

Depends on what MMO. You can develop a text-based MMO fairly easily, maybe even 2D MMO. But 3D, open world, "do anything" MMO is insane.

[@totheknee]

_NEVER_ underestimate the ignorance of well-intentioned but uninformed humans, even when they're acting in good faith. The vast majority of people on earth have no idea _whatsoever_ how hard it is to make a large game. _At all._ Even I , as a programmer of a tiny adventure game (a genre that was a solved problem _thirty_ years ago!) make misjudgments on how long something will take. Okay, so I claim 4 months and it takes 8, while they claim a few years and it takes 100. The less someone knows about a thing, the harder the fail. Just look at how ignorant people are about medical science -> anti-vaxxers killing _hundreds_ of millions of people from a _single_ disease.

[@yourbiggestfan395]

Everyone is the hero of their own story. Course he'd say the things that help him justify what he did. He doesn't dare look at his discord or answer customer questions because it makes him feel terrible. It makes him feel very un-hero-like. He likely is a big dreamer, and thinks he'll be able to pull it off with enough time. He'll be telling himself and others that till the day he's dead, even as he works on other projects. He'll always follow up other advancements with "This will help me finish identity." because he feels good when he says that. Man cannot be trusted anymore.

[@gridlock2958]

27:04 "The Asylum team is not involved and not contributing to the development of Furballs" 28:24 "Okay so actually I do own this other game and the company... But it was just a passion project I worked on in my spare time! I didn't waste Identity development time on it! Promise." 29:19 "We had a dozen people work on Furballs" I've met that kind of person enough times in life to tell me everything I need...

[@regalgiant1597]

One thing of note, people are hyper critical of things that ARE released and documented, but if you show fuck all and are sketchy about it people are super positive and defensive. Fucking weird.

[@typeunknown1540]

It almost seems like more stuff = more stuff to criticize.

[@vallejomach6721]

It's easier to fool somebody than it is to convince somebody that they've been fooled.

[@OrgaNik_Music]

Sunk cost fallacy. People _need_ the game to be good, because they've already backed it and don't want to admit they've made a mistake.

[@regalgiant1597]

@@OrgaNik_Music That would be true but as said in my example, they have shown very little and have not released anything, so there is no sunk cost.

[@jonas3333]

Oddly similar to how easily people believe everything they're told by the media, but then heavily criticize their friends who try to inform them of the truth behind the scenes.

[@mitrovarr]

I really wish they're start arresting some of these guys. Yeah, failing to make a crowd funded game isn't illegal, nor should it be. But making large, meaningful lies when asking for money is illegal, usually referred to as fraud by deception or something similar. If he lied about having major publishers interested, he's a con artist and should be arrested for it.

[@Despond]

lol if it can be proven by pure negligence and misappropriation of funds then it SHOULD be a felony. It's theft, it's scamming.

[@MagnakayViolet]

Sadly, worse things have also started with meaningful words or deceit. Without enforcing a contract agreement before transferring funds, people will continue to donate to a cause that 'sounds too good to be true' without insurance.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@MagnakayViolet but the agreement is: You give him money and he agrees to give you nothing. The developer promised everything, but the fine print promises nothing.

[@Gokulosestoavirus]

Unfortunately fraud is so hard to prove with these cases. Because you are willingly donating knowing the risk of a product not getting done. The cases that have went to court over this has usually ended due to that very specific clause. Which is why some crowd funding sites don’t get held with the fraud suits. It’s all designed to make you donate out of fill will. It’s a stupid clause. But fraud requires a contract in many terms. You don’t sign one with these sites. That’s the legal loophole for some of them to get out of fraud.

[@xl000]

No. There are risks in every investment. Those people decided to take the risk anyway. Their lawyer would argue that they faced unforeseen problems which sucked all the money.

[@EBE-13]

I completely forgot being scammed by this game years ago, thanks for the update

[@NinjaTactiks]

And we're back here again with "The Day Before"

[@ramdomguyfiftychars]

Software dev here, it's always always always better to undersell and overdeliver. Whether it's to project managers, customers, users, whatever

[@bioLarzen]

Well, sure... if your plan is to actually make and market the game ;)

[@animatrix1490]

I’m a freelance artist and I think this is good advice for almost anyone making a product :P

[@RG-si1qz]

I remember seeing this kickstarter back in 2016. I laughed so hard at this scam. I told everyone that it’s a scam but you know how it goes “It’s easier to fool people than convince them they’ve been fooled”

[@fapalgarlaw9257]

The fact that people just hand their money away like that lmao, i dont feel bad for them.

[@_Majoras]

@@fapalgarlaw9257 it seems to work for twitch 'babes' 🤣

[@JohnDaubSuperfan369]

"It's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled", you could say that about 84% of human population, possibly even more since there seem to be some gullible atheists as well.

[@AysarAburrub]

@@_Majoras calling them "babes" is praising them too much ... they're prostitutes.

[@chillvibed]

Always amazes me how there is ALWAYS someone who will defend the scam Too. 😒 idiots

[@MultiSciGeek]

Please do a video on Ancient Cities! I was so hyped for this game, but 4 years overdue it's a 1 day Unity project.

[@BrandenG626]

Realistically the game idea is everyone’s dream game but there’s a reason the biggest company’s ITW haven’t done a game like this yet. I think the closest we have got to this is GTA no pixel and that was only possible because the base of the game was already created by a big company. But you have to think how much maintenance a game like that has.

[@Techstriker1]

I'm still amazed at how identical all these failed kickstarter MMO stories are. Same processes, promises, and outcomes. Only the ideas and people are different.

[@kwisatzhaderach1458]

It's called Aspergers

[@srccde]

@@kwisatzhaderach1458 Autism has *nothing* to do with this sort of criminal behaviour. To even suggest such a thing is utterly despicable!

[@azariyelvarro6271]

@@kwisatzhaderach1458 Guess I'm a criminal cursed to create an overly ambitious Fake MMO and fleece my loyal supporters... Hey, yknow what, feel free to prove your argument right. Send me a hundred bucks and I promise to spend a whole three hours making up a game idea and a whole ten minutes coding one before I give up and never mention it again.

[@srccde]

@@TheWatchernator Join the mafia, if crime is a legit way for you to 'earn' money. Also, I'm pretty sure he's going to have to pay back every cent. And even if he doesn't have to, he'll never get a good job again as every employer now knows what he is.

[@Komotau4691]

Still amazed me how people take this bait stories to send money or support dull pixel games. And I should be not surprised if really good game ideas with really honest maker never get a attention nor any money. Fake **s society like just bla bla bla and dreams and stories.

[@piyoweb]

This John guy just couldn't stop lying. To him, heisting the Kickstarter money to buy bigger house was the game in itself. All the people that actually pay money? They'll just have to play it in their imagination. This game is still on Steam with mostly negative review, no update since June 2019.

[@kvasir8931]

Well your imagination is the only place where you can do literally whatever you want so youre not wrong.

[@asmosisyup2557]

It's sad the amount of unfiltered trash that's on steam these days.

[@ProDCloud]

Its not a good idea to screw people out of their money while they can easily find where you live.

[@SirDBee]

Can we talk about the fact he registered a company called PHONY games? He’s kinda taking the piss at that point, no?

[@MrNightmarekill]

Something important to add, the Arma 3 life community has been dying for an amazing roleplaying/life sim stand alone game, and Asylum Entertainment, the people behind Identity, ran Arma Life servers themselves in the past. They took advantage of the die hard Arma Life fans, and it's pretty sad to see how hyped people were for it, knowing the game would never become anything playable. I followed the whole saga, mainly through PsiSyn, the guy at 19:15 and later parts, (I highly recommend checking his videos on Identity if you want to learn more, he has some incredible videos about it!), and he along with many of his fans could see the road it was heading down, and he tried to warn people, but he could only do so much.

[@PixelShade]

I mean, this is the main reason why me and my friends never started a kickstarter. We wanted to know for sure that we would be able to deliver the game before accepting crowd funding money. And guess what happened during the journey? First couple of years developing was great, then shit hit the fan, especially in my personal life (being the main developer) as my dad became fatally ill (and other things that I won't go into), but also that my team mates who also needed to adjust their priorities in life as well (as it is changing over the years). I personally became creatively drained and currently I am on a uphill battle to get back into form again... Just the thought of having the game already backed by people would be extremely stressful in a situation like this. And I am SO happy that I went with self-funding. Perhaps a couple of years down the line I will start a kickstarter, knowing that we already have an almost full gaming experience at offer, but with the final 20% being bug fixes, polish and nice-to-have features.

[@hamsandwich6685]

Respect for you with this approach. I agree and am in a similar situation, developing a game with a partner, self funded. It's about 4 years in, and there is not much beyond designs, ideas, story/lore, and some level tests. Probably at least another 6 years to go at least. Anyway, public funding would probably hinder as much, if not more than it potentially helps.

[@harry_burnsworth]

Hope you get your mojo back, dude!

[@futuza]

Just a warning as a fellow dev, 80% of the work for a game happens when finishing the final 20%. The "polish and bug fixes" take far more effort than anyone ever expects.

[@steveharvey2102]

Hi, hope everything works out for you. Just be honest to friends, family and yourself. The the rest will fall into place. Cheers from Canada

[@LindyKnight]

What’s the games like?

[@Arik-isharshu]

I've been psychologically conditioned by this channel to expect any mention of a "dream game/project/mmo/kickstarter" to refer to Dreamworld and now after clicking on this notif I'm confused like a cat in a house that's recently had all the furniture changed

[@AspiringDevil]

When my cat acts ups I rearrange the furniture to reestablish dominance. I assume Kira is doing the same.

[@dakat5131]

There's a slide at 2:49 that I thought was talking about Identity(the topic of the video), then noticed it said "Dreamworld drama" (and similarly, when I saw the title of the video I thought it was going to be about Dreamworld)

[@justinwhite2725]

I also saw 'dream' and assumed dreamworld. That was probably intentional clickbait.. But that's fine - this is content I would have watched anyway.

[@ginamcgill7054]

@@jamesd5767 You clearly haven't known any cats. They think they fucking rock and we're their housekeeper chimps.

[@electricant55]

@@jamesd5767 what is your problem dude

[@a2pha]

What this shows me is what I have been doing all along. Do not charge for books you've written or games you've written. You do this and people will not feel cheated if you say - you need more time. In fact they will often be more supportive than ever. When I wrote S2 years ago I released the whole project for free. It was through dedicated fans of my code that I received well over 100 postcards thanking me for my work and some people even paid for and mailed me some books, real books, on game design. Books I was actually quite interested in as these very books were instrumental in me getting S2 as far as I did. I hope in the future I might write an S3, yet life calls me now more than ever. The good news is, if released it will be like all things I have produced in the past, for free. Just - enjoy what I write and accomplish - is all that I ask.

[@Vampurrya]

Skyrim allowed books to be visibly placed on shelves back in 2011 😂😂😂

[@RangersGirlJackie99]

I'm wheezing. When you showed the Furballs kickstarter page, I looked at the funding goal and immediate thought "man, that looks like someone is behind on their mortgage payments and needs a lil cash to get the bank off his back" then 31:22 happened lmfao oh dear lord. Also, kind of crazy to see that this is one of the guys behind Altus Life, I used to love playing it on Arma 3. But the whole fun of it was the simplicity and the almost entirely player-driven roleplaying, there was very little original work beyond the UIs of the shops and ATMs, so I'm not surprised he struggled to create an online role playing style MMO from the ground up.

[@SithLordAnakin]

I shit my pants with laughter.

[@flossec]

Think its important to say that he didn't help create altis life, he worked on the dev team of an altis life server called Asylum before leaving to create Identity

[@woodside4life]

Welp… 😂😂😂

[@honeybadger6275]

@@flossec damn. thats even funnier.

[@TehDMCmaniac]

I see your editing is evolving, Kira! One bit of feedback I can offer is that, as in 26:09, for example, when you put a person's picture alongside some information, that generally implies to the audience that you are quoting them. I know that there were no quotation marks there, but I noticed in myself how I got somewhat confused every time one of these shots came up. Perhaps consider presenting the visuals differently, for greater visual clarity? Either way, lovely work, as always!

[@danusorn8655]

Up

[@aaaarchy]

Agreed! Kira is doing excellent work, and this small adjustment would make a big positive difference. Just putting the quote itself would be best in those sections.

[@dylanrush184]

I find it distracting when videos print out subtitles like that. I think it’s only appropriate when quoting someone. If it’s just the narrator speaking it’s too jarring of an effect

[@makuIa]

What’s ridiculous that people overlook is how unrealistic peoples views are of each other. Thousands of players aren’t going to sign on everyday to play as cops, firemen, accountants, window washers, painters etc. while the other half play as drug lords with all the wealth. It’s why GTAO keep releasing DLCs for everyone to be a rich thief or gang leader & not a substitute teacher or shop assistant

[@Djheffeson]

12:17 "tou esperando esse jogo faz e tempo, vai lançar quando?" BRAZILIAN SPOTTED!!

[@Blisterdude123]

Yes, please, continue to satiate my desire for more hilarious tales of fucking disastrous kickstarter debacles.

[@stellviahohenheim]

Kickstarter Testicles

[@Zyphera]

@@stellviahohenheim If they sold Testicles at least you would have a product to get your hands at.

[@Man_Aslume]

Kickstarter tomfoolery

[@wolfieenightcore6701]

Wow I remember when I was around 13/14 and begged my dad to let me spend the $20 on the Kickstarter to secure my place in the beta or whatever they promised which was supposed to come out at the end of the year or beginning of the next year, more and more time passed and just now I remembered about it and wanted to see how it turned out…

[@hotelmario510]

I'd give my father his money back!

[@corundumkrabble5035]

Pay your dad back as an apology please lol

[@wolfieenightcore6701]

@@corundumkrabble5035 well I can actually get a job now so gonna have to lol

[@SithLordAnakin]

What a tool. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@rickcarti]

@@wolfieenightcore6701did you ever pay him back back

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

i love it how he was trying to create an MMORPG, but the networking and dedicated servers were last minute polish and would be done at the end in just a few weeks. Which is like... no?

[@InservioLetum]

Wait there is one thing missing here that would have been absolutely KEY information : interviews with the other employees over the years. Surely they cannot ALL be dead, out of cell range, or incommunicado? What was it like to work for these companies? What was John like as a boss? Even just a funny story about a chaotic day in the office would lend at least SOME credence to this not being JUST a scam, or an earlier, smaller version of the Fyre Festival fiasco.

[@ChaoticVampire]

If you want something like this look for a GTA or RDO private server, there's literally people making these games into second-life style games with mods and huge communities.

[@toughguyharrison]

I think alot of the gta rp streamers backed this game.

[@theknifesong]

all fun until TakeTwo comes in and destroys your mod and sues you into oblivion

[@acetown2263]

Or Arma 3, like where some of the footage in this vid comes from.

[@Zharghar08]

Yea. The listed description of Identity immediately had me think, "so GTAO right?"

[@alandunaway3000]

Rockstar is always trying to close the private servers.

[@TheHCPro]

When the mortgage stuff came out, my jaw dropped. That's about as red handed as someone can be caught

[@invntiv]

Not sure Star Citizen truly belongs to be listed with the others. Sure the game is still in Alpha, but theres a massive amount of highly detailed content that’s been released already, with a relatively large and dedicated player base. There is progression and advancement to be witnessed in the games life cycle. They even have a convention every year where they show off the year’s roadmap. Sure, it’s not following the traditional timeline of a AAA game. But they have at least delivered a relatively highly playable alpha

[@0lionheart]

Star Citizen is both the exception, and in a way the example of why you should never trust these pitches. Even with an eye watering budget, and a huge team of skilled developers, it's still taking them years and years to inch closer to the promise. Star Citizen is the best you can hope for, and it being where it is, is a small miracle. By all rights it should've imploded years ago, these games are just too complex to manage.

[@AnymMusic]

@@0lionheart Star Citizen truly is Schrödinger's game

[@TheAttendee]

I feel like Kira has a hateboner for the game.

[@DuckAlertBeats]

How was this video not called Identity Crisis? I'm shocked :)

[@Univenon]

Another great video in the series Kira. You're doing a great job with these and I've come to look forward to each one that comes out. It was your first Kickstarter to Court that brought me to your channel and I'm glad that it did. Thank you for being you.

[@KiraTV1]

[@twinkiebandit0933]

I studied Game Design at the CC I graduated from for a few years before figuring I'd want to be a localizer or translater (as a I love gaming and had a knack for language learning) and switched my major. My Intro to Game Design class was taught by a professor who worked in the industry for years. One week, we focused on cost breakdowns and they said MMORPGs are the most expensive genre to make. This was around what I liked to call "the golden age" of Kickstarter scams lol, and I remember my professor devoting an entire lecture to why they knew for a fact none of these games would get made. Sure enough, many of them ended up appearing in the "Kick Scammers" series years later. There was also a dude in my class that started a studio and wanted to make an open world game that was quote "Like Skyrim but didn't suck" (this dude had a massive unchecked ego)w/ 25,000 he got from Daddy to make his better than Skyrim dream come life. They made it to a working demo and that's it. I can only hope that the concept artists and ppl who made the demo got paid. To this day if baffles me to think that this guy came to class, engaged with that lecture, and still turned around and thought $25k was sufficient enough to make a "better Skyrim."

[@TheJacobAnwyl]

if it just worked, he would have been fine. Unfortunately GrandMaster Todd is the only person with that power

[@mario199923]

Hell, it's been 10 years, a Microsoft acquisition, and infinte money and Todd himself still hasn't made "Better Skyrim" 🤣🤣

[@JS-wp4gs]

'One week, we focused on cost breakdowns and they said MMORPGs are the most expensive genre to make' Then he shouldn't be teaching the course, because they're not. They're not even remotely close to the most expensive genre to make by an absolutely massive margin. Open world single player games are the most expensive genre to make and always have been The kind of nonsense he's talking is why he's teaching and not in industry any longer. Whats that saying? Those who can't teach?

[@mario199923]

@@JS-wp4gs open world single player games have the most expensive up front cost, but MMOs have to budget for YEARS of development and updating after the initial up front cost. That doesn't even include server and maintance costs. *THAT'S* why MMOs are the most expensive game to produce, because the are constantly updated and supported well after the initial release

[@idkanymore3382]

graduating game design is as impressive as landing a hob at the grocery store bud, sorry but youll never go anywhere lmao

[@TreblePhoenix]

13:30 The interesting part here is even if it was okay to use a trial version here, the fact of it being a trial version of Maya still implies something was off.

[@TreacherousFennec]

this is why i really appreciate the big mod projects in the Fallout community, like Capital Wasteland Project or F4NV just saying "it will be released when it's ready."

[@Satchmojones]

Skyblivion comes to mind.

[@daviddavidson2357]

THIS is real games journalism. You find sources, speak to people and actually get information out to people. No ragebait or clickbait, fukken subbed.

[@ForeverLaxx]

Kickstarter really proved the old adage that there's a sucker born every minute. I get so sick of seeing those sycophantic posts drowning in cope telling developers who are already years behind schedule to "keep taking as much time as you want; my money is valueless to me." It's this attitude, which has overtaken gaming as a whole, that has led to so much garbage being released year after year.

[@indrapratama7668]

This. Consoomer/sheeple mentality has overtaken the world, in virtually all aspects. No wonder we're currently in the worst cultural decline in history of humankind.

[@hulahula6182]

Simp behavior, typical

[@aktchungrabanio6467]

Absolutely

[@wadedevinney9681]

I actually really like a lot of these ideas. I have seen a lot of people talk about how this really is just a robber sim, but I find the idea of not having anything locked behind an experience wall fairly interesting. The problem is that there is no such thing as an Indie MMORPG, as many people have pointed out multiple times. I don't even know if these projects start out as scams, I think some of these people are just delusional or don't know how expensive a server building is.

[@vCASTORTROYv]

It does sound a dream game on paper. From a design standpoint I’m not so sure. Surely EA would of whipped something up by now seeing how much the trailer was viewed and people (including myself) were really mesmerised… by the concept.

[@paulie-g]

There's a big problem with concepts - they're not reality. As it turns out, "do anything" just means there's no structure, therefore no gameloop, therefore interminable grind and boredom. You see it in every game that ever tries this. You want a believable world where everyone's doing a job? Great. You are going to get people to play hot dog vendors, garbage collectors and so on how, exactly? The US has to import desperate people from disaster zones to do them because the natives would rather collect a measly gov't check, and you think you can get people to *pay* for the privilege of doing this for free? It's insane.

[@xxmurianrayxx4584]

Love the kickstarter to court videos!

[@SprayNpreyT]

same, good stuff

[@storminmormon8195]

except this video had nothing about this scammer going to court

[@SprayNpreyT]

@@storminmormon8195 yeh, but is the name of the series, is catchy :))

[@mafiousbj]

I don't remember which developer I hear say this, but he said that you could realize from the get go if one of these MMO's would fail or not since the beginning if the developer said they would focus on "servers and networking later". Basically for a fully online, shared world game, you have to start designing and coding within servers amd networks from the start to make integration easier. You can't slap that as an extended goal or something that will be done "once gameplay is finished". Otherwise tou will find so many bugs and compatibility issues any progress will grind to a halt. Good planning can work wonders, even if you have all the money in the world (which these studios don't have anyway)

[@TheDragonHouse]

Were you high writing this

[@waberoid]

To be fair, Star Citizen is still updating and being added to. The issue is that the mission is overly ambitious. The guy who made it wanted to make the most realistic space sim ever. So they are trying to do some stuff that is almost impossible with computer games today which is why it crashes so much or runs like crap. Also having to switch engines, people coming and going, etc. Maybe with quantum computers, it will finally come out.

[@starfoxdelta]

18:31 Bro went insane from have to wait for so many years for nothing😭

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

26:54 $170,000 So one senior developer and one shlub. People need to get their heads screwed on straight when it come to salary costs. For even a tiny company, let's say 2 senior developers, 4 junior developers, 2 QA staff, 1 server admin/dba, 1 desktop support, that comes to... about $500k per year in salaries alone. Now add in social media staff, artists, any and all executives, hardware and software costs, and you are EASILY at $1million per year. This does not include game engine and content licensing, legal fees, travel, office space, incentive bonuses, sales, marketing... etc. etc. etc. etc.

[@LeedleLee457]

Exactly! Rockstar had 650 trained/experienced people working on GTA 5 with over $265 Million dollars. And people really think 2 guys with zero experience can make a better game with $170k. Even if it did have good intentions at first, this kickstarter is the same as a 5 year old saying "I wanna build a rocket ship!"

[@njuoergiubeg1857]

@@LeedleLee457 happened with Hollow Knight.

[@LoveProWrestling]

@@njuoergiubeg1857 comparing an apple, and an orange.

[@40sandLs]

Yeah making a game thats 2d pixel art/"hand drawn" models takes a fraction of the time/work as 3d modeling.

[@calibula95]

@@40sandLs and that's why indies are so good. No need for so much money, and lots of passion behind them (like Hollow Knight, Cuphead, Stardew Valley, Undertale/Deltarune, etc) Multi million proyects are just too suceptible to corruption, disappointment or any other problem due to the big scope and team they have. Also the need to please investors or whoever else that put money in there, and then rush the work and release unfinished bs (I'm looking at you, Cyberbug 2069).

[@TheGoodDoktor4451]

This genuinely the sort of game you spitballed with your boys in middle/high school before you, at least, partially understood the insane amount of work it would involve.

[@dantethewanderer4989]

Back when our imaginations weren't really weighed down by realities like technical limitations and time/money constraints. When our imagination had even a single chance of becoming a reality instead of just another "that's nice but impossible/impractical" in the pile.

[@Gelato41_]

@@dantethewanderer4989 when your high, it doesn't matter

[@bigwater7128]

“Bro it’d be so cool if we….”

[@sarodorethedragon9865]

i should note: Star citizen does have a playable fully realized single player the multi player universe is in playable alpha tho lacks a fair bit of features but hey if you wanna be a space trucker its great!

[@IdiotRebecca251]

Moral of the story don’t back an mmorpg you’re either gonna find yourself scammed or in a casket before it releases

[@justepic7029]

I remember when DarkFall Online was announced. And half the MMO world had hope and the other half swore it was a scam. Then, someone flew to Greece, documented it. And the Studio and game was real. Then Darkfall Released. It wasn't great, but it released. After seeing all these game scammers, I have much more respect for the Darkfalls of the industry. Every one of these studios that dont produce a product, or don't give back every penny, need to be thrown in jail.

[@gregb3557]

I sorta disagree...you cant draw blood from a stone, so getting that money back is impossible, and people need to stop treating kickstarter games as a sort of pre-order.. its NOT.. they are a crowd sourced investment, nothing more. Investments are never going to guarantee any sort of return.

[@shanearnold2854]

Remember standing in pyramids building defence lol

[@justepic7029]

@@gregb3557 if there is an honest attempt and failure, then that’s fine. I have been burned by Camelot unchained for a founders deposit, and I might be burned by ashes. But at least there was an attempt. Some of these kickstarters that are covered on this channel are 100% scams. And that’s where money should absolutely be return and people should get jail time.

[@aprisia]

@@gregb3557 No, it's just throwing money into a wishing well. You are not investing in anything with crowd funding. Investments grant special legal protections. Crowd funding does not grant you any of those protections.

[@jimjones9631]

@@gregb3557 I think what the OP means is that while Darkfall struggled, it did bring the product to market and without any sketch behind it like "publishing another game to fund this one". It's more reverence for a small team with a vision that while flawed, is still followed through

[@denmarkball7728]

I've followed you since below 2k subs and haven't gotten any updates from your channel in a while. Seeing you've branched out looks like a great turn for your channel. Your voice is iconic and your logic and reasoning was wasted on the average mmo-player. I believe you will skyrocket even more now and I wouldn't be surprised to see you above 1m within a year or two. Good job so far Lord Kira!

[@yallia6197]

He's been mostly publishing content on his other channel, simply named Kira. It's a lot of reaction videos like he used to do on here so if you like his witty humour and takes on things you could check it out :)

[@Wastingsometimehere]

Sadly crowd funding and crypto scams will provide years of content.

[@sleepythemis]

@@yallia6197 Seconded, also a lot of discussion about the leaching of crypto scams into gaming on that channel if that's something else you enjoy.

[@CARCATGames]

This was pretty despressing to see out of nowhere, because I used to follow news on this game excitedly back in 2015. Tbh I kinda forgot about it until now.

[@Xl_Fenrir_lX]

Wait how is this “From Kickstarter to Court” if he was never brought to court. I was waiting for you to mention at some point the court case or a class action law suit but nope, typical clickbait youtuber. DO NOT RECOMMEND CHANNEL is such a helpful button in times like these.

[@zachhoy]

I appreciated your attempt at describing "Kanata, Ontario" :D You said it backwards. Kanata is a town in Ontario, just outside of Ottawa. This guy is near me! My scammer senses are tingling now.

[@3xceIIent]

I can't tell if your joking or not, but he said Ontario, Canada. It is rather funny though that with the accent it sounds like "Kanata". Do Canada and Kanata sound similar when said with a local accent?

[@xekon14]

@@3xceIIent When you look at the screen at the moment he said it, the office is situated in Kanata, Ontario whilst what was said is Ontario, Canada

[@zachhoy]

@@3xceIIent I love the channel and I was being genuine, though I see now it was probably a funny coincidence of his accent and the fact that John VanderZwet lives in Kanata, which has a pronunciation sneakily similar to Canada. The IPA for Kanata is /kaˈna.ta/ (stress on 2nd syllable), while for Canada it's /ka.na'da/ (stress on 3rd syllable), and in North American English a single 't' is pronounced as a 'd'. As such, "Canada" and "Kanata" are mostly distinguished by the syllable stress. Don't worry this was just me being local :D

[@sakurakiyori]

Point of Order, Kanata's been a de jure far burb for the last 21 years, and before it was just a de facto far burb.

[@onehitwhat]

The bookshelf thing is especially ridiculous because SKYRIM bookshelves fill themselves if you put books in them. Skyrim!

[@oz_jones]

This is a weird comment.

[@TheCrazierz]

@@SioxerNikita sim does fill it

[@bhee1076]

Star citizen is actually making a lot a lot of progress

[@TheCodeHunter]

Been making games for nearly 6 years. The concept of such a game is so difficult, no one in their right mind would ever make that and expect it to succeed. Only large studios (AAA Companies) have a shot at trying that.

[@the.seagull.35]

The mortgage is the smoking gun for me. I believe he skimmed a lot of that money off the top.

[@dianaorozco4152]

Honestly the bit at the end with John's statement tells me all I need to know about the guy, after all this time he has the balls to say that the points you brought up aren't actual issues and that he didn't do anything wrong. The denial is strong with this one 😂

[@serbrighterunagainst9231]

And I also see nothing wrong, did not steal the money, invested it, promised proof of concept and delivered it. And still working on it.

[@oxenfree8373]

If they are indeed being taken to court, it would be extremely unwise to admit wrongdoing to an investigative content creator - from a self-preservation perspective. Not defending them or this ‘development model’, but it’s not surprising he’s cagey about the situation. We’d all like it if people were openly accountable for their actions, mistakes and misdeeds.

[@oxenfree8373]

@@serbrighterunagainst9231 calling every failed kickstarter a scam is borderline to me. There’s fraud, then there’s mismanagement, overly ambitious goals and unrealistic funding roadmaps. I feel like I’ve seen far worse kickstarters than this, and this one looks pretty bad given the blatant misrepresentations and a gnarly case of sunk-cost fallacy.

[@dianaorozco4152]

@@oxenfree8373 True that’s fair, since it’s still an ongoing thing it makes sense that he’d want to be in full self-preservation mode just in case he gets sued. For the sake of the people who gave this dude money I hope he’ll one day deliver what his backers wanted but as all the scams out there have shown us, it’s not very likely

[@Double_T_G]

Predicting a cost of $150k for a greater than AAA quality mmorpg is so delusional that I'm surprised anyone donated.

[@DragonflyTodd]

I covered this game when i was a kid, even got an interview with the devs and tested town square before it came out. So sad :(

[@diminaband]

Me and my buddy (RIP) we’re both really excited about this game when we found out about it. Up until watching this video, I still thought I would see it and be able to explore the world and have a blast. Everything this video touches on makes tons of sense now and I remember most of those “updates” when they happened. There needs to be specific laws against this kind of thing.

[@stephenrochester6309]

Sorry about your friend.

[@Falaxuper]

Sorry for your loss, best of everything to you

[@Frewition]

Did your buddy die anticipating this game, or did he know it was a scam?

[@Idkwhtpsipto]

@@FrewitionI heard he had a heart attack when he realized what a scam this game is.

[@lg6707]

Legend has it that guy that is happy to keep waiting is still waiting happily.

[@Man_Aslume]

When he is on his deathbed surrounded by his loved ones his dying wish is that they wait happily for him.

[@MonkayMakesGames]

This was really well made! The fact that you even reached out to the creator and did so much research was amazing. I would like to see one made for DragonBall Unreal by Emudshit. It was BIG fan game that got ridiculous funding....then he vanished. I was a mod on his discord server. Hopefully I dont end up on this series if one of my games takes off lol

[@Ho_Lee_Fook]

I remember being so hyped for this when it was first shown 😭

[@kareliask]

Can't believe how much your channel has matured, Love how you're doing the Wirtual method of putting a lot of content on a side channel, and saving more polished content for your main.

[@XTSonic]

Crazy how a Trackmania streamer is a reference nowadays. The Riolu scandal and his coverage seems to have been the best thing to ever happen to that game.

[@kareliask]

@@XTSonic Agreed, although in addition to those things, Wirt has such a bigger personality than the other TM streamers in general.

[@byst33]

And then....KiraTV got THIS run

[@XTSonic]

@@kareliask There aren't many overall really. Too many that don't know English (Frenchies) or don't speak it well enough to be confident enough. Not sure who else is there. The German COTD group, Spammiej who never grows up or Scrapie the weeb magnet.

[@calvinchan8511]

Wirtual is a very good story teller in his videos.

[@Maewtt]

I can't wait for Hytale to be on this channel. Before RIOT bought it, it was funded by people buying ranks on Hypixel's minecraft server with the promise that those that bought more expensive ranks would get early access to the game. It's been in development for 7 years now and we have nothing more than screenshots and a 4 year old trailer. They also said 2024 is the soonest it will be released. (This is the 3rd time the release date has been pushed back)

[@charcoalangel7536]

I had no idea about the Hypixel Minecraft thing.....is that even legal????

[@Maewtt]

@@charcoalangel7536 it is, assuming they follow through on their promise and actually make the game. I bought mvp+ back in 2015 and am still waiting 7 years later.

[@charcoalangel7536]

@@Maewtt Do you think it'll ever come out? I've seen so many mixed messages from both the community and the devs

[@Shakhburz1]

While I have sadly a similar intuition regarding the fate of Hytale, I think you got some things twisted: While the ranks from the original server did start the funding, they were never sold for the purpose of funding that game, and rather only for the server. They did say they want to give something back ontop of what those ranks do on the server, with the example of early access mentioned. However, the ranks were NOT sold for that purpose, nor any advertisement to buy them for what you claimed they would do. Infact, the early access idea was only mentioned publicly (as well as the game existing as a whole) AFTER Riot became an investor for them (which would later on buy them). Hytale is NOT a case of misappropriate public funds, nor one of promises to the public while giving them an option to buy in (in terms of a presale, ranks, or anything else). You did not crowdfund it, they did not promise you a reward, nor anything else. The funds from the ranks was their own personal income from having the minecraft server and selling the ranks on there, with all promises surrounding the ranks always delivered. Do I think Hytale is going to go well because of that? No, Riot bought them, its hard to imagine its gonna end well knowing the treatment of their main game and company history. But they are using their own money, and always have been. Its still possible though they end up causing a disaster that ends up being covered on here. Yet not because of money taken from the public.

[@qgfdgdfsdffbfb5114]

I've actually never heard about the ranks part, is that really true? I bought a hypixel rank way back when, but just for the hypixel part. Either way, I don't really think it is the same, considering it never got crowdfunded. Not to mention that since they're owned by Riot, it is VERY unlikely that a game doesn't come out at all.

[@PassiveAssassin]

I have often thought of that one trailer I watched with home customization. Thats it!. Amazing piece as always 10/0 👏👏👏👏

[@merefinl6914]

The sad thing is that while the Furballs game isn’t nearly as glamorous, it’s obvious that this guy did figure out how to make an actual deliverable game concept and lead a studio. Misleading the public with a blue sky game concept gave him the money he needed to (allegedly) become more financially stable and gain experience through trial and error. This is how game studious are born, but they usually don’t involve catfishing the public for seed money.