40k Oldhammer Batrep - 3rd Edition - Space Marines vs. Orks

Like it or hate it, there is a lot of discussion over whether the current edition of Warhammer 40k is too complex or too difficult to play. So were previous editions any better? Today I'm going to check out 3rd edition, one of the most popular versions of the game among those old enough to have played it. Does it hold up in 2021? Was it all just nostalgia? Let's find out...
#Warhammer40k #Oldhammer #Battlereport

[@barbarusbloodshed6347]

3rd edition 40k, 6th edition Fantasy. Those were the best editions.

[@ebarlow4940]

Those simpler editions combined with GWs attitude towards its games at the time, that it was a fun light hearted hobby where conversions and creating your dudes, and having a good game with some friends was the focus rather than a esports ready ruleset based on an IP full of named characters to be consumed and followed in quarterly updates as you would a Marvel movie series.

[@ChristopherSmith-dq2xs]

Beg to differ. Averaging fire and overwatch rules, three different move types, ambiguity in lore and humour. And not needing to buy a million pounds worth of mini's for a battle. And as for apply common sense, changing characters to have double cost compared to second ed and changing to 'I go you go' in the turn structure would have been more sensical. Removing roll to wound was good, I will admit that.

[@Spandau-Filet]

@@ChristopherSmith-dq2xs how is the humour ambiguous..?

[@ChristopherSmith-dq2xs]

@@Spandau-Filet lore. Not the humour

[@jedschubser1]

for me 2nd edition is best

[@lukehawksbee]

"That's one knackered old rulebook" Shows a rulebook in better condition than the one I had back in 2003 *during* 3rd Edition

[@Leaked_Dudes]

Had to get them spiral bound cuz they fell apart

[@patrickcharzin3062]

You know, its the darndest thing. Its been like 20 years since I played third edition 40k, but as soon as you said "the scenario is cleanse" my brain was like "oh, table quarters, I remember that"

[@michaelbermingham2942]

3rd edition 40k and 6th edition fantasy was truly the golden age of Warhammer (at least for me), not only in gameplay but the style of sculpts, the lore and the overall esthetics of the entire hobby. Please do more 3rd edition games, really enjoyed this video 👍🏻

[@TheSpaghettiKnight]

I found myself enjoying this even more than your typical 8th or 9th edition videos, mostly because I could actually follow what was going on without having to pause the video and re-listen to understand the weird rules / strategems / codex stuff. For the most part it's just the core rules, the minis, and the dice, which is such a refreshing change of pace!

[@Quonzer]

My thoughts exactly. This video inspired me to go to ebay and get the 3e codex. It looks so much simpler and faster too.

[@Bobamelius]

I love, love, LOVE the 3rd edition rulebook. Everything is presented in disorganized little snippets of lore, and combined with the excellent artwork immersed you into 40k's grimdark like nothing since.

[@born2hula325]

I rebought the 3rd edition book just to have as an artbook and I love it.

[@DeusMachina71]

The original Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness and the lost and the damned is definitely the gold standard though.. best books GW ever produced 👌

[@savagex466-qt1io]

ya id love to re look at it. man is it just me or was reading battle reports in a white dwarf more fun then watching them on youtube ? They took good pics and wrote with lore / good writing on how the game went eatch turn.@@born2hula325

[@absolutmauser]

3rd edition is a delight and it has a proper British wargames rulebook that conveys the rules in a narrative fashion making it impossible to look things up later. Glorious.

[@KiwiTheIguana]

As someone who got into 40k around the release of 7th Ed, it's neat to see some of the old rules you hear about so often actually being played. There were a good number of times when I thought/said to myself "I wish that was still how it was done" like immediate morale tests and morale not making models just disappear into the ether.

[@yagsipcc287]

If you liked this you would love OnePageRules as well. They are an amazing group of people with great rule sets for sci fi, fantasy and working on FTL type game as well. Inspired by older 40k stuff. I love it and I love third edition (the best Edition of 40k)

[@KiwiTheIguana]

@@yagsipcc287 I’ve actually been a patron of theirs for a while now, but mainly for the 3D print models, and never checked out the rules, but I think I’ll give the rules for GDF a look!

[@gamingborger]

i started in fifth, somehow managed to miss 6th, and was surprised with 7th

[@Neothunder240]

@@yagsipcc287 I've been checking OPR after so many people recommended it and I don't see it. It looks like a stripped down and flavorless version of 40k. I'd rather play 3rd.

[@chucklapine6782]

Third edition 40k was a strpped down and flovorless edition. 4th was better

[@thecaribouninja]

Third edition seems a lot more suited to narrative battles, which is great! More Oldhammer, please! (It's sad that the terminator didn't even get fire his flamer)

[@SusCalvin]

The Rogue Trader/2nd edition were even more like half-RPG games. You could have an independent third player, the ref, who informed the players about environment effects or secret information or controlled third-party/NPC units in the field. In the RT starter mission, the orks get a special objective to search through the building a troop of marines are camping in. There is stashed loot under the bed of the marine officer, but only two ork officers know about this and they ain't sharing with the others. The marines don't even know this objective exists. The ref could control alien animals and aggressive wildlife or units of local gangs or a shapeshifting space vampire hidden in a unit. The scenarios straight out of the 3rd ed rulebook came in general mission types and then six individual missions for each type. Raiding missions, decisive battle missions etc. I think when there are less moving parts around, it's easier to adjust and pitch in your own. The Assassins codex had some suggestions about assassin-specific missions like pitching a single hidden eversor against a platoon of enemies or having a third player control the assassin on her special, secret mission to kill a certain enemy commander.

[@jonschwartz734]

I love third edition. Me and my friends restarted playing 3rd recently and are having a blast!

[@ashheilborn]

I'm starting to collect the codices to do this myself. Are you still playing 3rd two years later?

[@duffersson]

3rd edition was my favourite (at least in my rose tinted memories). I think a lot was mindset, it was more casual and a fun game to play and not a game all about winning. Also 3ed seems to have the most fun white dwarves - some were wild. But I was a chaos player then, so it was our era…

[@imperialus1]

It was my favourite too, and the last edition I really played. Dabbled in 4th a bit, but sort of puttered out after that. I still have nearly 4000 points of metal Cadian Imperial Guard Armoured Company kicking around, complete with a few of the really early Forge World pieces like the Hydra Flak tank and the static Basilisk Battery. Used to play in massive 16000+ point team games at the FLGS and had a bit of a reputation for being able to eyeball ranges on the artillery pieces with frightening accuracy. Playing an armoured company alongside a buddy fielding Blood Angels as a vanguard was a... powerful combination.

[@SusCalvin]

Was it here they used daemonic instability? I know daemons had some rules that made them finnicky to reliably use. Ork units still had a lot of chaos but theirs was dependable in a way. You knew ork units would get angry and smash things up.

[@KDD0063]

@@SusCalvin no, chaos demons were just part of chaos space marines, and were regular units. bloodletters were 3+ armor with a 5+ invulnerable, and a power weapon (ignores armor saves) making them more powerful than a space marine. Demon princes were chaos lords with more than 75 points of wargear.

[@SusCalvin]

@@KDD0063 I know WF Battles and WHF Roleplay had instability rules for demons. Ghosts and undead had versions of that too. 3rd edition had less special rules attached, especially towards the start.

[@DiceandGlory]

Seeing the Dreadnaught vs Boss fight reminded me of plying 3rd ed and tar-pitting heroes with 50 man IG conscript and then never failing morale because of the attached commissar.

[@Icipher353]

Swarms we’re great for this as well. Things like Ripper Swarms and Nurglings were great for tying up characters.

[@chainer8686]

A handy trick that players kept up their sleeves in 3rd edition with melee was the player first picked what they'd fight with before determining initiative order; in rare occasions, Terminators would would not use powerfists and just fight with their normal stats instead of hitting last with powerfists.

[@ny3di]

It seems to me that the older editions dont have that many meta/abstracted gameplay elements. Useable points, strategems or things like that, it sticks more to the miniatures and what you do with them on the table. All the extra gamifications take away the immersion of being part of an emerging story of a cool scifi battle and although i get that the reason behind those is that you have more to do while playing the game and not feel bored but id gladly take the older narrative focused approach any time. So please Dave, do more oldhammer videos!

[@kosmosfantasias7545]

That's what I thought. 9th ed is basically just fluffs and you take the strongest units. People only care about meta list instead of enjoying the cinematic immersion and rich lore about 40K.

[@robertderouin3169]

So I played in 3rd and it was miserable because even in friendly games your friends played the most broken 3rd edition 800 points Daemon Princes and other bullshit like that.

[@mikels7811]

I played mostly 4th ed. Which was extension on this. You had the psychic phase and a few other things added. Necro was added etc. However, the flavor of the rules were very similar to this. My personal experience of the rule book were much like what he said, the writers basically said "use common sense" i.e "don't be a dork". However, there was a lot of legalese in players even in "for fun games" which took away a lot of the fun. A few of the people I played with started on 3rd ed, and would argue 3rd ed rules against 4th ed rules, and it would sometimes get confusing. I have not played WH since then, however, I think I would generally prefer a simple set of rules without all of the meta stuff. It seems to me, that if you can keep the game simple, and keep it moving it will be better. If there is any way to reduce the legalese it would be cool, but people will always be people.

[@robertderouin3169]

@Tight n Nerdy Your very right about stratagems, in old editions if the unit was bad you just couldn't run it unless you wanted it exploded off the field. With stratagems it gives you some possibilities to sneak in some power where otherwise the unit would have sat on the shelf

[@pentacosttb2565]

The biggest difference between then and now to my mind is that the WAAC stuff used to be soemthing only gits would do by exploiting rules that weren't intended to be used that way. Nowadays, GW is intentionally making the game to appeal to those kinds of people, with each new release having some broken special rule that makes their army the meta flavour of the month, only to be needed in the next FAQ and replaced by that months new releases. It rakes in the cash, but it makes the game a mess of special rules, metagaming and exploitation of FOMO.

[@robertmccann9631]

Early 3rd edition in the old days was just quicker, no faff, re-rolls very rare. A lovely fast wargame.

[@billybobbobbington3097]

If I remember correctly the inability of not splitting fire was reflected by the cost of the heavy weapons being much much cheaper for a tactical squad than the same weapon costed for say a devastator squad

[@hotomatoe664]

Yeah but how gamey is that? It makes absolute zero sense and breaks immersion

[@zielisawzielony9366]

@@hotomatoe664 Not rly, space marines had Tactical Squad rule where you could break in 5man squad with heavy and other with sarg and special weapon. My fren had some DA made that way.

[@hotomatoe664]

@@zielisawzielony9366 and those bolter marines still had to stand there like dummies and shoot their guns at stuff they couldnt hurt because their heavy wanted to target a tank. Or the missile launcher had to target something squishy instead of kraking a tank. They lowered the points to sell more hvy weapons at the cost of immersion. But immersion isnt really GWs priority when writing their gamey rules.

[@angryskeletonpope2334]

​@@hotomatoe664 Still not as gamey as 8th, 9th and 10th ed

[@Tehstampede]

3rd Ed 40k was actually very simple. They trimmed out a lot of the fat from 2nd Ed and made the game less about OP characters and more about positioning and tactics. A character with a dummy thicc retinue could be mitigated or removed by specialist troops or your own characters while your troops did all the heavy lifting.

[@gregw-j6784]

Unless you played with the first Chaos codex... broken HQ and the ability to build armies with completely specialist troops. Slanesh daemon princes forcing enemy squads out of position, ones who could ignore all armour and invuln saves, or Khornate ones throwing out a possible 10 attacks on the charge, most of the builds could still have points left over for T6 or a 2+ 4/5++

[@SusCalvin]

I doublechecked the space marine force commander, and the bloke is still a T4 marine with 3+ power armour. He just has 3 Wounds you need to get through. You could put him in a terminator suit. With an entourage, I think you could place the models so that the goons were at the front, taking shots for the character. With a few exceptions, units were unable to split fire and always targeted the nearest model first.

[@SusCalvin]

@@gregw-j6784 How did daemonic instability work, back then?

[@gregw-j6784]

@@SusCalvin I don't know if they FAQd for the demon prince to be included or not because the upgrade for your lord gave him stats and made him monstrous but didn't say anything about giving him demon rules. But instability was LD roll and lose wounds for every point failed by

[@SusCalvin]

@@gregw-j6784 What caused instability? Losing morale or something?

[@GentleBen_86]

Love this. As someone who got into the hobby in 2nd edition, played most of my 40k in 3rd, and fell out of the hobby in 4th (to eventually come back during 8th edition), this brings back a lot of memories. I remember to how much simpler, quicker, and honestly more fun 3rd was compared to 2nd. I recently bought the 3rd edition rule book off ebay just for the nostalgia but after watching this I'm very tempted to give playing it a go again.

[@tesa8157]

Got into 40k in 3rd edition and left during 5. Nodded along as the rules were mentioned. Modern editions leave me baffled, but i wanted to restart for some time…

[@Leo___________]

For me it was the complete opposite. 3rd was so bland that it made me drop the hobby for nearly a decade. I think it has a lot to do with what parts of the game you enjoy.

[@doomislav5791]

2nd edittion was a beast - the change to 3rd was jarring in its simplicity.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

9th or 3rd edition both agree, if a multi-melta so much as looks over you, there's a good chance you're going kaboom as an armored unit.

[@SusCalvin]

That's the role a meltagun always had. You run up with it, line up a shot at close range and microwave some fools. Meltaguns in half range (half range of 12, that is) could roll an extra dice to penetrate. Plasma weapons had range but they always overheated. There was no such nonsense as "safe mode" plasma guns, they were always set to dangerous levels. Plasma guns had double range compared to a melta and cost a few points less to make up for the lesser punch and risk to the user.

[@egorrotneck5022]

I was playing 3rd edition up until the release of the dark vengeance box. Me and my brothers/ mates didn't fancy buying new editions of rules. The rule book is so well worn it is now individual pages in plastic wallets and a binder! It has excellent artwork and stories.

[@benevans7564]

The best way to game is with like minded gamers like this.

[@Vaultboy-ke2jj]

3rd edition was my favourite, played the hell out of it and had so much fun

[@NATHANARCHY]

This was awesome !! Very cinematic. I love the idea of a dreadnought getting crippled to kill the warboss, and the marines having to gun down the rest of the xenos to rescue their honored brother. It's the stuff you read about in the lore

[@TeutonicKnight92]

My least favorite thing about 8th and 9th is the morale systems. I like things falling back, regrouping, sweeping advances etc

[@alpha-0874]

I'd love to see some more 3rd edition battle reports. In a lot of ways it seems far more enjoyable than 9th and certainly more entertaining to watch.

[@youtubevanced4900]

9th edition is hopeless. 8th edition I really liked because it simplified the game again after the massive rules bloat of 7th. It's make to massive rules bloat again though plus the missions are so boring to play. Tournament missions don't belong in general play.

[@jasonbeatty831]

Loved 3rd, but I really enjoyed 4th. It was missing a few elements but it felt like a more "shooty" edition that was just fun for me.

[@chrisgoblin4857]

3rd is when I first started playing back in the day. When I came back in 8th I was disappointed with how stripped back it all seemed. 9th took that a step further. Things like vehicle armour, scatter dice and all the other random special rules which were in place made the game spazzy and fun. I really want to play the Horus Heresy tabletop game due to a less stripped back rule set but I don't know anyone near me who plays. On the subject of old GW content, they need to bring back Inquisitor.

[@SidneyGutteridge]

I now pretty went back to exclusively playing 4th and 5th edition. They just feel so much more like 40k than 9th has.

[@the_forbinproject2777]

same here , I stopped buying rules set after 6th , today it seems too complex

[@fan9775]

@@the_forbinproject2777 I prefer saying “layered” rather than “complex”.

[@danielcrafter9349]

@@fan9775 - definite difference between the 2 approaches Complex means there's more than enough Layered is when rules are presented in stages, and is a lot easier to learn than everything at once But this massively depends on how the rules are presented - and 9th ed rules presentation is just crap

[@boboayame2065]

'BT being represented and not Ultramarines was an outlier' Well 1st was Crimson Fists and 2nd was Blood Angels

[@pauliusthemad3498]

I am waiting for 2nd edition. There is a great nice bible document being put together to make playing easier...

[@SorcererDave]

This is definitely a comment designed to confuse future historians

[@pauliusthemad3498]

@@SorcererDave I just realized it now ya....

[@WisePenguin007]

I only played 2nd edition, then left for a long time and came back in 8th. 3rd has a lot of wonky rules I never heard about. 2nd still my favorite, though :)

[@cashcleaner]

@@WisePenguin007 All 3rd Ed should have been was an improvement on the fundamentals laid done by 2nd Ed. They went too far and I haven’t really played since then.

[@arkenhemnall6224]

@@WisePenguin007 100%. I got interested in 40K when Rogue trader was the thing (never played it) but I was at Games Day '93 when 2nd ed was released. I was still not into playing but eventually got into it. Loved 2nd ed, although as a Nid and Genestealer Cult player hand to hand was laborious (so that's the main thing I didn't miss too much from 2nd. I guess it depends how much players want to go between playing solid tourney style play or if you just want to chuck some dice on the table and have a good time with friends. I'm happy to play anything nowadays, between kids, family, work and everything else getting any time out is welcome 👍🏻

[@JayAndNightASMR]

I still play 9th edition kinda like this, I use the basic rules you get in starting editions. Makes the game a lot more enjoyable when you don't have to remember 20 different things

[@johnshuart7414]

I miss 3rd so much... its where I started and I always think about how vehicles would just go boom turn 1 with a lucky lascannon hit

[@urbancampfire7253]

Yeah, as it should be. In 9th you need something like 4 Lascannons to wittle down a tank.

[@eoinmccormack1940]

A great idea! I loved late 3rd/early 4th ed. That's when I got started. Can't wait to see how this goes

[@TravisJ-je6ub]

If I remember right, 1at ed had points for base models and points for individual weapons. It was fun. 3rd ed was great. Fast, fun, and cheap. I stopped playing after 5th rd because spending more money to play something with new rules and books that were out of date by the time the books came out just wasn't appealing. Good on you for playing the good old days.

[@PerfectTangent]

3rd had points for wargear as well.

[@Senbei01]

@@PerfectTangent 1st was a little different. At first you simply had two lists - one for wargear and one for creatures. This is why some of the old models are things like Space Marines armed with Shuriken Catapults, Orks with Las-Cannon and Eldar with Plasma guns. The only limitations were the intelligence of your troops (the base statline included Ld, Int, Cl and Wp back then. these were all combined into simple Ld for 2nd ed) and the force guidelines in the fluff section. It was possible to field an entire army of independent Gretchin back then, but all your heavy and special weapons had to be carried by characters because the basic grunts were too dumb to be able to use anything more complex than a shotgun.

[@finny1987]

definitely keen to watch some more 3rd ed bat reps, especially if you have some of the codexes to expand the armies abit!

[@Bellerophon3]

Great minds. I’m building a Dark Angels army of old metal marines, with the intention to play some 3rd edition games with a friend. Hoping to have it done by Feb and go to Warhammer World.

[@oinked]

one quite important thing I remember - when you managed to kill those orks in base contact (1:30.00 or so mark), when it came to them attacking back they didnt have anyone in base contact and therefore no one could attack (as the rule was that friendly models wihtin 1" of a friend in contact could fight). This allowed for some tactical manouvering and intricate placement of models to either get models out of or into actual fighting. I would say I think that 4th edition was better. It ironed out a lot of the oddities of 3rd but still had the right flavour.

[@0blivionstone]

I started playing in the heat of 3rd edition and miss it sorely. This was a blast to watch, makes me want to dust off the old codex myself for a game.

[@nathanvicary9793]

me and a mate just played a game of 3rd edition because of the video. we both started playing in 4th. damn was it nice not having to remember all the bloated extra stuff in ninth. thanks for the inspiration

[@EmperorSigismund]

4:30 Imagine that. Back in the day guardsmen infantry squads were cheaper than they are now and the sergeant had a lasgun by default!

[@MrZauberelefant]

and there were 6 different guard regiments available to boot!

[@richtheunstable3359]

@@MrZauberelefant Cadian, catachan, mordian, Valhallan, tallarn, steel legion, Pretorian, tanith. So far 8 flavours i think vostroyan technically got in there in the last month or or two but shouldn't really be counted. Don't think attilians should be counted as you couldn't run an army of them but still another flavor I suppose.

[@MrNRaven]

This was great and such a blast from the past - 3rd edition was my entry point and the only edition I'd played until 9th. The simplicity of the rules is so refreshing and whilst it can be a bit janky (template weapons, units falling back, armour facings) I do miss some of the rules specific to this time. I'd love to see more of these.

[@wheelcha1rman2]

I started with 3rd. Played 4th too. Playing 9th now. It's a totally different beast. I do miss the old days.

[@toastle8005]

That was incredibly enjoyable- it’s my first introduction to your channel, and one of the few times I’ve sat through a long-form battle report like this. Your narration was just so calming and interesting to listen to, and it made the last hours of my work shift brilliant. I’d be genuinely interested in seeing more, and I’ve put on notifications for any future uploads you do regardless. Happy I found the channel, and best of luck with the algorithm! :)

[@SusCalvin]

I like the old armour pen rules. One shot with a lascannon can blow right through a tank if you get lucky. Vehicles don't have a countdown of wounds, they get an armour value you have to beat with the power of the weapon. Rear and side armour is often lower than front armour. Something like a lasgun is incapable of hurting a vehicle no matter how much you plink away. A boltpistol might hurt a light vehicle or the rear end of a tank. But if that single lascannon got lucky, they could knock out a weapon sponson, make the tank immobile or blow it right up. An immobile tank could still operate its weapons. 1st and 2nd edition had a few more results I believe. A hit could penetrate and turn the crew inside to slush but leave the tank itself functional. The crew could find themselves alive in a non-functional vehicle, and then they could hop out and fight on as standard infantry models with pistols.

[@briangriffin9793]

I really enjoyed watching this video. 3rd sounds easy to get started into compared to the newer one you have been showing

[@maddlarkin]

With the exception of the reserve rules, I preferred 4th, it brought a lot of the elements of the from 3rds city fight expansion into the main game and really streamlined the process, 2 or 3 minor tweaks and a return to 3rds rules for reserves and deep strikes it would of been pretty much perfect

[@TheKsalad]

I was following this along with my own 3rd edition rulebook, I would actually like playing some games of 3rd edition myself

[@andrewpackham8236]

This was amazing! Thank you so much for putting all the effort into making this! I would love to see more Oldhammer videos, you could even slowly work through the editions up to the present day!

[@patrickcharzin3062]

In 3rd ed, all the marines would be on the same sized bases as the scouts, including the terminators and the characters. Man this is taking me back :)

[@cdmac2010]

3rd edition codexes added flavour to each army. Plenty of extra rules yes but never felt like book keeping

[@SusCalvin]

A codex in there could be pretty slim I think. A couple like the Assassins are super-slim little things but even the major armies aren't hard to read through.

[@stigofthedump181]

Very interesting Mr sorcerer dave. My favorite edition I think. I may have to give this a go again. I've still got all my old books too which is a bonus. Thanks for showcasing this old edition. More please old bean. Stig.

[@case.fountain]

Great content. I'd love to see some more 3rd edition batreps - you've inspired me to get my Mordian Iron Guards back out.

[@jameskhoo4191]

Man this was awesome! I started playing 40k in 3rd edition, so it was super nice and nostalgic. I'd love to see more. I think that some of the mechanics in 3rd edition make more sense, like taking morale checks on the fly, why would the unit wait to shit their pants and run away? They'd flee in the moment. Also, I think the vehicle armour rules make a lot more sense. It's so much quicker and more stripped down. I find all the strats and rerolls in 8th/9th to be a little frustrating. The all the rerolls particularly I think are a problem, if you miss you miss; that's the iron law of the dice gods. I was wondering if I was just a bit blinkered by having played much more 3rd edition but looking at this, I think it is better for the game to have less rerolls. No command points required to have a good time. If they've added all the strats and rerolls in order to balance the game, it seems to me that it's a counterproductive approach. Surely the more rules and variables you have, the harder it would be to balance. Considering that most players are quite young, it seems more appropriate that the system should be simple and you know what they say, a quick game's a good game. This was great to watch and it would be fantastic to see more. Can we see some Leman Russ tanks? Some large ordenance blast markers and scatter dice? Speaking of 40k nostalgia, do you have any Battle Fleet Gothic models? That's a great game and has great campaign mechanics. I'm sure you could make a great narrative for a BFG campaign in the Acheron sector, with planet side battles woven into it.

[@reginlief1]

I *think* I played 3rd before my hiatus from 40k. Coming back to it now in ninth is like a gut punch. Armies being broken down into smaller factions, new armies that never existed, stratagems, army sub factions (Klans, Dynasties, Legions etc.). It's A LOT to take in, and I think in many ways too much. But I'm not entirely dismissing these gameplay mechanics for the sake of actually being able to play games in the store. I think if I'd remove anything it would be stratagems.

[@glennrinehart3336]

Back in my day, units had point values and instead of trading cards you had a card stock terrain

[@trenchfoot243]

Really cool match!! I don't usually watch videos these long but it actually got me engaged.

[@ToTheNines87368]

I’ve never really played 40k for various reasons, but my mom bought me a starter set of some sort with this exact rule book in it and some models. This brings back nostalgia of me just reading it over and over and it giving me an interest in the universe, where I’ve now read countless books and played most of the video games, good and bad.

[@the6ofdiamonds]

One thing I appreciate about you Dave, is that you're willing to take the nostalgia goggles off and do stuff like this. Personally, I don't have an opinion on rulesets yet. I'm planning out armies, etc (and have been for a while, it's an expensive hobby and I'm still hunting for bits I want), so I'm just trying to keep up with whatever the current ed is. I managed to get the 8th ed Marine codex right before 9th landed just to look at models, chapter traits, and stat blocks

[@sanchez444]

Interesting concept for sure and probably extremely nostalgic for those who played back in 3rd ed, unfortunately I started my journey in 5th and as a wee lad it was hard enough to understand the rules let alone remember them. Now that I'm older not a big deal, but I do agree with the consensus that 9th ed is getting too complex, however, with most games (tabletop/virtual) the struggle for "balance" is endless and never obtainable in the least. That is in my opinion, I'm sure someone will argue that x edition of 40k was the most balanced, but balanced in what way and for who? We all remember the days of the Skitarii meta during the latter part of 7th ed, heck Krieg didn't get updated rules for 8th even during the end we used the same Index as we had in the beginning. 8th for example was generally considered a gateway edition and was fairly well received compared to 7ths rules, but even in that edition you had inconsistent matchups and balancing issues, It doesn't help that codices have a gap in releases so your playing at a disadvantage in some cases for matchups. That's of course only the tip of the ice burg when it comes to issues with the TT let alone with the IP, I've gravitated more towards smaller skirmish games given the fact that my regiment has effectively been "Squatted" and I don't feel like buying new miniatures all over again. Much more room for creativity and just overall more fun, Mordheim has been a breath of fresh air and I really look forwards towards each new session.

[@lordravenblade]

The “no splitting fire” is also why everyone took minimum squads or did the Combat Squad split for heavy/special weapons.

[@Vincent_Brien]

That's why I like to play old éditions with split fire rules

[@8Scientist]

Love the focus on flavour over appeasing tournament grinders!!

[@EnglishTheif]

Wish you would do more of this Dave. I think its your best work and you do it better than anyone else!

[@morc-at-arms8903]

Yes please more of these! Its exactly what I am interested in atm.

[@TheZedman5000]

I only recently got into painting minis and playing 40k with 9th edition, so I came into this expecting it to be bad and overly complex because it's old, but I actually like what I'm seeing here. I especially like models retreating when they break, instead of just vanishing. I always found it a bit odd that routing models just died, it makes more sense for them to run off and potentially still impact the game in some way.

[@oitoitoi1]

Love it! Please do more 3rd edition content, my favourite edition by a mile. There is a 3rd Edition Battlescribe repository, I think someone on the facebook group made it. If you unblock links from comments I can post it for you.

[@phaserminis9002]

This was great. I'm only just getting back into the hobby after dropping out during 4th. But 3rd was my most played era. This has made me super keen to build a 3rd ed army. Would love to see more like this.

[@BwahBwah]

I think the best edition is the one I make up in my head and play by myself.

[@death2all79zx]

Your work is appreciated. Thank you for making this a wonderful and excellent battle report.

[@christomsharpe]

Loved this, thanks so much. It really brought back so many memories. I would love to see more 3rd Ed battle reports if you get an opportunity 👍

[@CanadaGeer]

Thanks for the informative and entertaining video! As a recent (9th only) 40k player these 'classic' edition videos are SUPER interesting! I'd love to see more, especially a Sisters of Battle army! ⚜

[@owen9684]

This is great as a group of us here in NZ have started playing 3rd again and we are having alot of fun with it. Would love to see more of these

[@Ondemas]

Great stuff! Thank you very much for this. Want to try some Oldhammer soon.

[@connor9024]

Man I forgot how much I miss cover saves and how much I hated arguing about what save you get lol

[@zackcook5123]

I think it's very good to look back at older editions and figure out what was good and bad. Because I'm sure we can learn a lot from the mistakes and try not to repeat them. Personally I came in on 8th and enjoyed it a hell of a lot. 9th is half stuff I love and stuff I hate. Can still have a hell of a lot of fun having a game, drinking tea and rolling dice. Laughing at 1s and howling at the times when a grot shanks a Nob

[@CB-sf9mx]

9th is as complicated and as competitive as you want to be. The worst thing about this ed is that matched play is inherently pretty competitive, and also offers little variety in missions. You often feel like you are playing the same game over and over if you have a small game group. The best thing about the latest edition is that it can be played a lot faster assuming you know your own rules. You can have a game done and dusted in a couple of hours, which was not the case with range guessing, and arranging squads to be as safe from template weapons. The new edition does take a bit of creativity to make narrative games more fun, which can be a barrier for new players. You need to talk about what you want from a game with your opponent, and make lists, objectives, and a battlefield to fit in with the decisions you made. Some people hate this and live in this weird world of Schrödinger's 40k, where the rules are both completely broken, and simultaneously so well perfected you shouldn't change anything. It can be hard when you are looking for pick-up games with a random person, which is why I think a lot of people are a bit miffed with this edition, but i think it still plays well in smaller gaming groups, where you can change/ignore the overly-competitive elements, and house rule once per game limits for certain super powerful stratagems.

[@TheMostSlyFox]

2 biigest gripes about 9th are detachments, and so.... so many splat books that GW promises not to make but do.

[@philistineau]

The games are a lot longer, bogged down by fiddlely unit rules.

[@lukemcdonladson6648]

3rd was Good ... Simpler but fun .. a few tweaks and it would be very Cool ✌️💚

[@anul6801]

Like what tweaks? :)

[@lukemcdonladson6648]

@@anul6801 ..Tthe way vehicles operated sucked .. movement .. targeting units .. Sucked I like 40k when it was more about race specific movement, reserve movements. Armour save types. Toughness. Overwatch. SvsT .. WS vs WS .. And had a simple yet extensive weapons list . And Not a lot of Special Crap .. special weapons with special rules, held by guys with special abilities and CPs that do Special things.. it's rather silly .. That's a lot of Special . ✌️💚

[@thegremlin3194]

I enjoyed 3rd far more than latter editions . It was simpler . We just played and didnt worry about updates and having that model that helps you win .

[@dannypockets]

Not sure about subsequent editions, but actually neither RT nor 2nd ed featured Ultramarines on the cover (it was Crimson Fists and Blood Angel respectively). So at this stage, nothing unusual about the boys in blue being absent from the promotional material.

[@obsydium]

Great idea to showcase an old edition, thanks.

[@GermanNightmare1976]

Gotta say, this feels so very familiar. Nicely done! I seriously enjoyed this battle report of 3rd edition (I started in 2nd) and I'd like to see more akin to this.

[@bigpoppa1234]

1:30:00 - That's why mekboyz with force fields were worth their weight of gold in 3rd ed, invulns were far far rarer. It's also why I always liked Chaplains over Librarians mostly down to their invuln. I had a Captain from the same model as that force commander, but I concerted him to have a lightning claw instead of the sword, kept the storm bolter though, the 3rd ed codex made having a mastercrafted LC really useful and the storm bolter would get a few kills of chaff on the way in.

[@shellingford9941]

Really interesting, things were simpler in this encient time. I think I started with the 5th edition for my part, that was something else ^^ Nice army and table :) and thanks for the video !

[@malmo7928]

Curious to see how this goes and how good my memory is. Great idea for a video. I have been digging out my wfb squarehammer stuff recently - sometimes it's nice to go back to what you enjoyed rather than constantly have to keep up with the Gw treadmill.

[@kolbecathcart9611]

Just chiming in to say that it was a joy to see some 3rd edition play. I've fallen out of 40k as a hobby near the end of 5th edition, but played through 3/4/5. I've been meaning to look for my old 3rd edition rulebook because it was just a brilliant tome overall. Definitely made my day to watch this video, despite the length.

[@sawagott]

Great video, liked and subscribed. Please do more 3rd edition battle reports.

[@AlwaysDrawing2012]

Thank you for sharing this, SorcererDave! 3rd edition was my first start into playing Warhammer 40k : )

[@ooberallen]

i honestly can't stand strat hammer and hate what 8th has turned the game into. I'm currently just playing 5th and 30k.

[@ooberallen]

@Bingus McDrangus funny you mentioned alternating activations. My group and I tried using kill team 1.0 activation with 8th towards the end and we had a lot of fun with the game. The problem right now is its usually whoever goes first wins because alpha strike is so strong due to how deadly the made the game. They stuck with legacy stats in a system where they mo longer fit in.

[@jonesdan85]

Ohhh the memories I have of 3rd. That rulebook brings so much back. A tomb of my youth for sure.

[@richardseaton6390]

Very nostalgic. My memories of playing 3rd/4th edition was my characters frequently getting one-shotted by a high strength weapon (as double strength vs. toughness instant killed) and it being super shortlived as a result.

[@kostas225cmp]

3rd edition was my intro to 40k, and I also still have that same rule book. It's so sad that we've lost so much of the fun in not just the game, but also in the style. In the way that the rules were written, with their tongue-in-cheek quips, and the constant stressing that the idea is to have fun, you can feel the love coming off the pages. As you mentioned in the video, modern 40k reads like legalese--it's cold, flavorless... There's no love there. No passion for what was bring created.

[@Kaiyanwang82]

It's a bit like the old minis, not only for this company. Soul vs soulless.

[@christopherschwab6525]

Loved this! As someone who's looking for that "Goldilocks zone" of depth and simplicity and can't abide army-building in 8th and 9th, this was refreshing and damn tempting to explore!

[@justindavies6012]

This was ace! For me, 1st Ed is my favourite RPG scenario game, 2nd ed for hero shenanigans, 3rd ed for big battles. Great stuff! If i could choose my dream combo of rules it would 3rd ed with first ed movement and 1st ed weapons stats.

[@TheGreaterGrog]

3rd ED was a big reactionary change from 2nd, where you had a ton of hideously powerful characters and almost everything moved incredibly fast. In 3rd nearly everything was slow, early characters weren't all that much more dangerous than individual models, and vehicles were incredibly simplified. It also codified the MEQ concept due to how armor saves worked. 3rd had its own cheese, of course. Mainly about stuffing as many special/heavy/melee weapons into squads as possible, and charging out of vehicles. Many of the best armies were things like 5 man las/plas SM squads with a las/plas Razorback, Blood Claws in Rhinos, 3 man infiltrating Chaos SM squads with lascannons, etc. Taking max size squads was almost always a bad idea since the vast majority of a squad's damage came from the specialist weapons.

[@Visherex]

As someone coming in, 9th was truly staggering to learn, although I really love the amount of detail you can field and stack over your army, less so in 10th for now

[@justwannabehappy6735]

Honestly, 5th-6th editions were the golden era for me (depending on which army you played).

[@draketheduelist]

I recall supporting attacks _always_ allowing armor saves. People used to call them "rock throw attacks". Which, yes, resulted in odd scenarios like Carnifexes throwing single Str10 attacks that _didn't_ ignore armor (despite that Monstrous Creatures typically ignored armor natively; most people have _NO IDEA_ how far Carnifexes have fallen from their past glory...). The only exceptions to supporting attacks were Tyranid Hormagaunts and some Chaos Marine units (I think Possessed with Daemonic Agility or something like that). Also you only hit on 5+ in close combat if the other guy's weapon skill is double +1. It usually was only a thing for the Avatar of Khaine or the Bloodthirster that caused this. Finally, back in the day, templates used to have "Partial" rules, where any model not fully covered only got hit by the template on a 4+. This... probably heavily biases models on 32mm bases... or it would if the Orks actually had blast weapons in this game, so I see why you didn't go for that. I'd strongly encourage doing something else like this, but first you should look up 3.5th edition. It's mostly known for the 3.5 CSM codex, though it was also when Tau got their debut, Necrons and Tyranids got their first major design overhaul, and the Inquisition got some of their first legit codecies (not counting Assassins). Midway through 3rd edition, GW massively overhauled the way a lot of mechanics worked, mostly combat. Supporting attacks stop being a thing, and you can attack with your full attack allotment. Destroyed vehicles become terrain for the rest of the game (unless they specifically explode; though you were allowed to tip them sideways). I think sergeants became targetable characters in close combat (specifically to stop squads with "Hidden Powerfists" from flattening Wraithlords). You had to charge the unit you shot. And more! It was wild. It's definitely worth looking up, and improved 3rd dramatically. Though personally I'd like to see a similar rehash of 4th edition, even if it means you'd have to track down some VERY old 3rd edition codecies and even _older_ FAQs for any of the 3rd edition books. Quite a few armies didn't get a 4th ed codex... most painfully including the Dark Eldar. In fact, the Dark Eldar would go a legendary _twelve years_ between their 3rd edition book and their 5th edition book. Maybe it might be worth just looking at some older codecies in release order and considering what those did to the meta of their time. Sort of a "History of Yugioh" but 40k.

[@Gizmok24]

3E is still the edition i play today as its the one where i started and i have just always loved it and had the most fun with it :) Would love to see you do more about this amazing edition and add in the codex :)

[@sprinkleLPs]

5th will always be my favourite edition. 9th feels like it relies on stratagems too much from the few games Ive played

[@Cromiteus]

This is a very cool idea. Ive only been in the hobby about 2 years now but have been collecting alot of oldhammer books/models and it's really nice to be able to see a modern battle report for some of these old systems.

[@thomasjones5260]

Wow, the memories that come flooding back just looking at the rulebook...

[@Sevarrius]

The artwork by John Blanche in the 3rd edition Rulebook 'is' 40k to me, it's what my mind conjures when I think of 40k. it's a masterpiece second only to his work on the Mordheim rulebook in which it was his artwork which was used to create the lore, story and characters of Mordheim. I don't know how many nights I spent as a teenager reading through the 3rd edition rulebook, over and over just absorbing all of the artwork, stories and quotes. But it was a lot. I think the only codex or rulebook I spent more time pouring over was the 2nd 3rd edition Chaos Space Marines codex. Simpler times.

[@TheFatspud]

Dam our boy Dave's on a mad one at the moment, can hardly keep up! Only just finished the guard/black legion rep! Let's goooooooo