The Perpetuality Of The Emperor - 40K Theories

[@ayanleman]

Dan Abnett seems to imply in an interview the golden throne is powered by the Emp's continual partial resurrections; i dont consider this hard canon so much as Abnett's interpretation of the Emperor's interrment but i love the idea of his deathloop not just being a torturous consequence, but a necessary aspect of using the Throne

[@40KTheories]

It's an interesting idea to consider, if nothing else. It might be his authorial intent, but it'll ultimately depend on who provides such information in a published book/codex etc first I imagine.

[@matthewbiro9689]

I love this theory. The idea that probably the most powerful psyker in the universe is trapped in a perpetual life and death cycle just to keep a guiding light for navigators is very 40k. I wonder if we will get any clarity in the last siege of terra book? Maybe this is why Abnett said what he did because the BL authors have discussed and agreed on the canon in preparation for this moment?... Or maybe I am just expecting too much 😂

[@hrolfbjornson6666]

Woah that's dark

[@DocOmally101]

It is interestimg as it gives a reason for his constant torrment on the throne, but I dont love the idea

[@L0rd0fTh3N3rdz]

I've always assumed his perpetual status is part of what maintained his undeath.

[@Damien_N]

The idea of an Imperial Army soldier standing up to Horus; a regular man, standing up to the avatar of the Chaos Gods made manifest is an inspirational story in and of itself. (regardless of how truthful it is ;) )

[@Icspiders247]

Right but what about killing an individual human being would suggest to the Emperor that his son was truly lost? Horus would've killed, directly or indirectly, billions if not more by the time of his fight with the Emperor.

[@Damien_N]

@@Icspiders247 if anything, one man making a stand against impossible odds is emblematic of everything the Emperor set out to in the first place.

[@lewisirwin5363]

@@Icspiders247 It was the way he laughed as he flayed the poor bloke alive that did it; like full-on Penance Stared him to the far side of death as a little joke.

[@gagesmythe6635]

Is this imperial army soldier going to be Katsuhiro from the siege of terra books? Seems like it.

[@chronicles7899]

The reason I love guardsmen, Ollanius Pius, the man who stared down the devil.

[@oldeskul]

I think, even with him being nigh-immortal, the Emperor before and during the Horus Heresy, still perceived things as mortal man, failing to truly see things on a 4th-dimensional and beyond time scale. As such, the chaos gods were able to pull a fast one on him, in the hopes of derailing his plans and at the very least, partially succeeding. After his internment in the golden throne, he has spent the last 10,000 years(who knows how long that is in warp time), not only battling the chaos gods in the warp, but also slowly gaining power until he became something that was truly inhuman and is on the precipice of being birthed as both a god of order and of the materium. And when one god of order is birthed, it will trigger the birth of other gods of order, then gods of death and gods of destruction. I think ultimately the warp, like all other planes of reality, seek equilibrium.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

That's a very interesting idea I hadn't ever considered. Assuming we go for a rough equilibrium of order and chaos, then who do you see as the other gods of order?

[@oldeskul]

@@00yiggdrasill00 Ynarri definitely. Maybe the T'au god of the greater good. Pretty much all the still existing aeldari gods, so Khaine, Isha, Cegorach and Ynarri, though I think Khaine should become a god of the materium.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

@@oldeskul I hadn't considered the tau because they are so small as a race and weak in the warp...but they do have several stronger subraces so yeah I can see the greater good as a god of order. I also hadn't considered Isha escaping/being freed but coupled with the emperor and ynarri that makes 4 gods of order to strike the balance. Thanks for the thought experiment.

[@RyujinNoKami]

@@00yiggdrasill00 the opposite of what chaos is War and peace Manipulation and truth Pestilence and cure Lust and purity

[@romanplays1]

@@RyujinNoKami slaanesh wasnt lust. hes desire..OF ANY KIND. a desire for peace is still a desire. thus fueling them.

[@williamblack6912]

If the emperor saw the primachs only as tools, like Malcador and the emperor himself claimed, why could he not just snuff out horus? I think that was the biggest lie the emperor told to himself.

[@40KTheories]

We'll hopefully find out later in the Siege of Terra novels.

[@Steingrabber]

As its been said many times before in this series. The Emperor is a very powerful man, but he's still just a man.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

because he was to busy thinking about how after this was done how he was going to to sit in his favorite recliner

[@DSlyde]

There's definitely an argument to be made that he did care then, but what remains on the throne that RG communicated has had that aspect of stripped from him. So it was a lie until it wasn't. And maybe one day it will be a lie again.

[@rinzler9171]

Interesting point. He saw his sons as tools, He loved Horus too much to wipe him out. Both cannot be true.

[@TherealSBlair]

I wonder if the Golden Throne simply won't let him die. If that's true though, why then have himself hooked into it in the first place? Maybe it's not what he wanted but something that was a lesser evil than his death. Perhaps it would have taken him too long to be reborn and the Imperium (and humanity) would never have survived long enough. As always, you generate good questions. Also as always, GW is not very forthcoming about solving mysteries.

[@tarn1135]

According to Dan Abnett, the emperor is being killed and resurrected thousands of times a day for 10,000 years. The thrones is a fail safe I guess prevent the warp creatures into earth through the web way. Idk if it’s true or that will change but it’s what he said.

[@thechriscrowing]

@@tarn1135 that is arguably the most grimdark thing imaginable

[@Arkaeus04]

Unfortunately we cannot destroy the webway gate. Question is though why ze fuq he build it on earth and not the moon

[@TherealSBlair]

@@Arkaeus04 Sadly, even if it was on the moon it would avail the Earth none if the portal flew open and all hell (literally) broke loose. It's proximity would damn the Earth just the same. Not to mention there's a devil of a different sort sleeping on Mars. One way or another, it seems the whole system is screwed.

[@area609joe2]

It's all up to personal interpretation, or at least it was the intent.

[@lewisirwin5363]

I don't think he's actually dying and rebirthing, the Astronomican doesn't sound like it 'flickers' enough for that to be the case, but I do think it's sapping just enough of a colossal chunk of his power that, with everything else he's up to, he doesn't have anything left to properly regenerate with. TLDR: "I don't have time to die, I'm _too BUSY!!!"_

[@wilsthelimit]

Yeah, I have a feeling at most he’s slowly, and I mean SLOWLY, regenerating, building up the power to return. Main issue is the fact if he turns his attention to regenerating, he all but leaves the Imperium to chaos

[@morpheusbutasasquirtle4431]

"Im gonna beat the perpetual out of you.." -horus probably

[@thatrunewarrior8390]

why does everyone forget the Talisman of the Seven hammers installed into the golden throne? technically speaking the Emperor cannot leave the throne until the talisman has been removed, otherwise Terra will be consumed by world ending fire in it's entirety.

[@40KTheories]

In fairness we don't know whether or not the Emperor had instructed Dorn to remove it before interring him into the Golden Throne

[@SittingOnEdgeman]

Before watching the video: I would hazard a guess that the reason why the Emperor hasn't let himself be reborn, is most likely he doesn't know how long it'll take him to be reborn. The possibility of the Imperium without the light of the Astronomican for years would destroy it utterly. Even a few days or weeks of gap would potentially destroy the Imperium. Other potential reasons: 1. He's too stubborn to die. He sees death as a failure, and holds onto that stubborn determination as the last element of his humanity. 2. He's afraid to die. He is 99.99% sure he's a perpetual, but there's always that too-human 0.01% that is scaring him. 3. His mind is too fractured. Like Magnus, he has split into fragments, and he can't unite enough of his own mind to be able to make the choice to die. 4. The warp entity known as The Emperor (born from the faith of men) is separate from the Emperor (suffering on the Golden Throne), and Warp-Emperor is interfering with the REAL Emperor's ability to kill himself and be reborn.

[@SittingOnEdgeman]

After watching: Your theory definitely sounds like the most 40k explanation possible. Infinite, eternal torture. Lol.

[@headlibrarian1996]

He is so powerful I doubt he has ever died before, unlike the other perpetuals, so whether he really is one cannot be determined. Unlike him they would have some idea how long it takes.

[@MattBrain9336]

If he really was in immense pain, maybe even in a cycle of death and resurrection, then I can only see that as punishment Seems like all the secret atrocities done by the Emperor came back to haunt him

[@bjollnirbjordsen9795]

The inquisition would like to know your location

[@vadfarkas14]

You need to cease and desist right now before someone starts smashing his head on a fking exterminatus button.

[@valwenventureco9285]

"dear magnus, I hope this letter finds you well, I have begun work on a highly psychically sensitive project and disruption of which could have horribly negative results for myself and terra. should you need to contact me please do so in person or send a messenger. thank you for your understanding in this matter. - your father the emperor" bamb and everything was fine.

[@awesomehpt8938]

Why don’t they just use cyberdongs to fix the emperor?

[@gamer65688]

The Tech Priest already has a video on this exact topic. Praise be the Omnissiah.

[@Lumen_Obscurum]

I have long suspected that there was more to the direct conflict between the Emperor and Horus than we've been told. For a start, it makes a perfect propaganda tool that the Emperor blasted the evil out of Horus, then smote him because Horus asked him to. What if the act of blasting the taint out of Horus actually killed the Emperor, and Horus in his purified form, tried to stop the Emperor's spirit from leaving his body? A last act of charity and kindness from the most corrupted of his sons, which ultimately dooms the Emperor to eternal torment. The story that has been told would be one the Emperor knew would give the people hope, rather than the true depressing horror of what happened. As supporting argument I give the fact that the Emperor had already been mortally wounded before he used his full power against Horus, akin to going out with a bang. If he was already dying, using his full power would have likely accelerated that process. Perhaps in that moment of pure clarity, Horus saw his Father's soul leaving his body and in a moment of desperation tried to fix his mistake, never realising that his Father was going to regenerate as only a perpetual can. It would also be in line with the Emperor's secrets leading to only tragedy, like the Folly of Magnus.

[@levvy16]

I'd love the emperor to come back as the beginning of a new 40k sequel that way you can still have old 40k and this new one which could get rid of firstborn marines and go its own way

[@kamaeq]

Sure, Sigmarize 40k.

[@Wrathien]

After a shite Monday at work this is just what I need. The Emperor protects!!

[@joshbull623]

I wish the Dark Eldar were not dicks and helped the Emperor instead of pretending to make a deal to help. Also, why haven’t the custodies been shown to be researching a solution? That would fall under the preview of protecting the emperor and they are suppose to be second to the emperor in cognitive ability so much so that they advise him, and they don’t have the same technological or authorities limitations as the rest of the imperium. They can help restore the Phalanx but researching the golden throne/Emperor solution is not worth their time?

[@grimaldur778]

Isnt Valdor's entire thing that hes a big shot custodes out seeking a way to help the get Big E back?

[@joshbull623]

@@grimaldur778 Yeah that is Valdor alone, not the custodes as a whole, nor did Valdor even inform the custodes of what he was doing when he left as far as lore has shown us too.

[@kishinasura1504]

Maybe they are too scared to do anything. Keep in mind that failing in this, is essentially the end of the Imperium.

[@SAwfulEPM]

One of the previous arguments in the camp of "The Emperor can never let himself fully die to regenerate" is that the Astronomican would go out (even if temporarily) and doom humanity. But, that's exactly what happened for [Timeflux] when the Great Rift opened.

[@thecommentguy9380]

Best case scenario: Earth go boom Worse case scenario: New Eye of Terror in Sol segmentum

[@archades115]

That would make perfect sense. That the Emperor's perpetual status keeps him trapped upon the Golden Throne. Brilliant.

[@Matt-md5yt]

Sweet a new theories video to watch at my lunch break

[@r.cdahuman7682]

Oh nice, a new video from the Lore Master, and it's on a topic I was literally *just* having a discussion with a friend about. Like, not even 2 hours ago. Great timing as always Lore Master. For my own input, I am not entirely sure why the emperor hasn't healed *or* died. Perhaps the power the chaos gods imbued within horus allowed the Warmaster to deliver wounds to the Master of Mankind that even his perpetuality couldn't recover from. The warp is rather strange, and the gods are powerful above all other things in the warp. If the man killed by Horus was infact Pious, then that would provide evidence to this theory, though there is no way we can know for sure if this is truly what happened.

[@insertedgynamehere]

My theory is that he's biding his time. We see in godblight Spoilers ahead That he can reach across the warp, resurrect gulliman, fix his armor and hurt nurgle. So it can be assumed that he does maintain quite a lot of his power.

[@DominusNox106]

Dan Abnett said in a recent interview that he sees the Emperor dying and regenerating again and again. Is it any wonder why his mind is shattered into a hundred parts?

[@the_astrokhan]

For some reason I think some of the lore behind the intro will be soon turned on it's head... Also, he clearly still a perpetual, if not something greater altogether. The fact that he's still "alive" after 10k years is exhibit A. The fact that he is harnessing the energies of the golden throne is exhibit B. The fact that the warp tear isn't disgorging legions of Daemons is exhibit C. Why hasn't he regenerated? Perhaps it has something to do that he's holding back the tide of the warp by himself. In Mortis there is a passage where the Emperor (in a far lesser form) is scorched and wounded and he only starts regenerating fully once the assault stops.

[@40KTheories]

More than likely lol

[@levrapport2033]

If I recall correctly, it was stated (or at least heavily implied) that Vulkan had his perpetual-ness burned out of him after the fulgerite incident, constant resurrections at the hands of Kurze, and having to regenerate literally everything after atmospheric re-entry onto Terra. I think it was in one of the War of the Beast novels that he considers the possibility that he is no longer immortal.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

My theory is that when the Emperor purged all compassion from his being in order to kill Horus, he literally severed a piece of his soul. Because his soul is now fragmented, his regenerative abilities have been all but destroyed. If the missing fragment or fragments of his soul could be recovered, then that might be able to restore him.

[@faded_ink3545]

Shit Monday in the office today; needed this as a bit of a break. Thanks lad.

[@Jawmax]

Yeah that was a contradiction I was wondering about. But with what said at the end about the rift might be making the Emperor stronger then Abbadon done goofed. Big Daddy E could be coming back!

[@aBoogivogi]

Or Abaddon is still hung up on getting one up on Horus and is arrogant enough to risk bringing the Emperor back solely so he can beat him down again to become the undisputed posterchild for the gods of chaos

[@gryphonofmight]

Ordo Notificus Present! We Will Provide The LIKES!

[@SwedetasticGames]

Correct me if I am wrong, but every confirmed Perpetual in the Lore has some type of active or passive psychic abilities. This could be the very source of thier ability to regenerate, meaning that something as potent of a scouring torrent as the Golden Throne, might over time 'chip away' at this specific connection. This would also explain why it is now up to 1000+ psychers a day to sustain the emperor; the added energy acting as a 'shield layer' around his soul to prevent it fraying any further.

[@jmagowan12]

The Emporers finest returns!

[@Palemagpie]

I got a theory for you. If all the Primarchs are aspects of the emperor's power/ personality / whatever. And they all had a pre-destined roles in the emperor's plan after the crusade. Like Magnus on the throne. And Dorne as like the guardian of Terra. What were the rest of their intended roles? And further theory. I think Corax was originally intended to be next emperor after big E was done with it all. The dude clearly didn't overly care about power or control. He just wanted to save humanity and set it back on the right path. And Corax was the most empathetic, and actually caring about people, plus he could "glimmer" like big E himself, although he used it in a far different way. Corax was also the only one who ever considered life after the crusade and was at peace with that. Corax woulda made a great master of mankind. Plus the whole bird thing. Aquila/ raven. I'm just saying, there could be some good theorising there.

[@antcow1239]

The Emperor should have just walked into that fight with no hesitation, Horus already demonstrated all the reasons to justify that.

[@buttermoth8669]

Purely because your intro jump scares me like every damn time while I’m using headphones, you should add a little noise to build up to the start of your intro music

[@powerflumi]

You have forgotten one important detail to add here. When the emperor was forced to join the fighting In the webway, they where forced to sacrifice psychers in his stead. So it would explain what the 1000(0) psychers are for. They are used to give the emperor time to regenerate himself back to his full form

[@Malphazar]

Unfortunately we will never know due to the GW heresy

[@jeangale6914]

Greetings Loremaster.

[@palpadur1112]

being interred in the Throne is the Emperor's punishment, and a justly deserved one; his failures warrant no pity, remorse, or mercy.

[@thesagepilgrim4441]

I was crying in my car when I realized this was out. Thank you

[@celtichistory]

The emperor will always look like a glorious Matt Mercer in golden armor to me. I'm good with this

[@pardeepdhaliwal4826]

I seen 40k theories I click and watch ur welcome

[@DarthSmirnoff]

The Emperor is 40k's version of an Arby's Beef & Cheddar. It can never die. It will outlive us all. And it will be our doom.

[@Deridus]

... better make it a double.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

That lone warrior is Ollanius Pius. End of story. -oh right, there's two of them-

[@40KTheories]

So far... >_>

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

@@40KTheories This is getting out of hand, now there are _MORE_ of them

[@dominicvucic8654]

@@40KTheories I honestly would lose interest in playing the guard if they took away ollianus pious

[@weediestbroom]

We should learn more about the throne itself. When and why was it extensively modified to become a life support machine? Did the Emperor know what would happen to him or was it set up like that for Magnus? Who made it? I heard it was xenos in origin but which xenos and why is it on earth? Did the Emperor find it and bring it back here or was it already here? Great videos btw, been subbed for years 👍

[@TheMalkavianmadman]

What an awesome surprise to wake up and find

[@usafbgartin]

I've spent many an evening enjoying these videos but I'm sorry to say GW's recent actions have forced my hand in forsaking all 40K content. Thanks for the good times, Rem! I wish you the best!!!

[@kamaeq]

Well, this isn't GW content, so you can still enjoy 40k without feeding the scumbags.

[@clemo85]

Maybe the perpetuality of The Emperor was one of the prices to pay when he made a deal with the Chaos Gods

[@fixedG]

What if Horus actually slew the Emperor and has been impersonating him ever since, knowing that to finally succumb to his mortal wounding at the hand of the Emperor would mean he'd have a true death and only his father's Golden Throne could keep him clinging to life? The Emperor appeared different to different people and Horus had his powers enhanced to near the Emperor's power. What if he could make himself appear as the Emperor?

[@tubeman69]

My best guess is simply if he was to "disconnect" from the Golden Throne without some sort of safeguard in place, the infinite swarms of demons would just break through into Terra. With Malcador gone, and seemingly no psyker even close to their levels of power within the Imperium, there's simply no way to guarantee the continued protection the Golden Throne provides after the Emperor would be disconnected and allowed to regenerate. It seems beyond just what would be required to allow his physical body to stay "present", the entirety of the Emperor resides in a non-physical form.

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

I always kind of assumed that the entire reason for the authors and writers to choose for the soldier who stands up for the emporer to be a perpetual in ollanius pious, and his own destruction at the hands of horus, he was used as a mechanism to show the power horus was wielding and explain the extent of the damage possibly inflicted onto the emporer. I mean they could've achieved an emotional peak out of a simple mortal soldier being willing to die there, but by it being a perpetual it achieves that peak to another height by showing horus own power and the willingness of an immortal to give up his immortality for the emporer.

[@logangrimnar3800]

Horus: "Anime is for nerds" Horus the Arch Traitor: "Well you're clearly defeated, better just finish you off and - 'ka me ya me whut'?"

[@reefalefunk1244]

Hmmm good points made here. Ive always wondered this. I just assumed horus was powerful enough to damage the emperors soul the same way he was able to destroy horus’

[@mechrob1]

Remleiz and the rest of your Ordo. better pack your bags and board the next jumpship to the BattleTech universe.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

Could the the interment on the Golden Throne be a crucible of apotheosis?

[@Mr_Fission]

If I had a nickel, I'd bet on that being the case.

[@mikewaterfield3599]

“The Emperor is a god in truth now. None can deny that.”

[@zirtd9256]

@40K Theories, in your personal opinion, which would you prefer - for the Emperor to awaken, restore his body to his full glory and stand up, or to forever remain seated on the throne?

[@kennycai8695]

The answer is simple: everyone forgets that a there is massive Warp rift waiting to be opened right below the heart of the Imperial Palace (thanks Magnus!), and without a powerful psychic presence to keep it in check, Terra is doomed. We already know that even with the Perpetual gene, the recovery time needed would have been too long before Terra gets swallowed whole, leaving the cradle of humanity at the mercy of daemons and other horrific stuff awaiting in the Warp. Unless there is someone out there with the psychic potential to match the Emperor's, but yeah, good luck with that. Malcador is very dead, Magnus has completely turned his back on the Emperor, so are there any candidates left?

[@SelfinaSlowthinx]

If you look back in some of the ooooold Rogue Trader books you can actually find some interesting short stories. One of them is a group of people talking about what would happened if they removed Big emps from the throne. at the time they were pretty sure he would regen but feared the loss of the astronomicon, the grip the church had on the empire, and demons just flooding terra. This is probably nowhere near canon anymore but I always thought it was neat.

[@ChrisHopkinsBass]

I suspect that The Emp plotted the Heresy but didn’t anticipate Magnus trying to contact him via Astral projection which shattered the web way extension. I think his intended upshot was for all the Primarchs bar Magnus to be gone but Magnus sitting on the throne

[@grimaldur778]

A really simple explanation would be: when he walked about as the most powerful man people were always fuggin whinging to him about arbitrary crap and even the primarchs were like "WhY dOnT yOu NoTiCe Me". Since hes been on throne hes been allowed to just focus on his astronomicon and custodes without anyone bloody bothering him

[@twilightgryphon]

This is just my personal theory, I don't profess to be a lore expert but here goes. My theory is in two parts. One: This was touched upon somewhat in the video proper but I don't think that the Emperor's perpetual powers were stricken from him completely but rather it's more like the combined power of all four of the gods of the ruinous powers striking him at once through Horus sort of checks it. He's trying to heal but the damage that was caused to him is still ongoing. Not enough to kill him but neither is his might enough in his current state enough to repair the damage. This is what's keeping his physical body in ruin. Two: If we subscribe for the moment to the mass suicide of ancient shamans creating the soul of the Emperor for argument's sake, then I think the damage that was caused to the Emperor that day was such that it drove his psyche, or his soul if you will, to pieces. The whole is shattered and needs to reform and the pieces were scattered throughout the immatereum and it's simply taking what we perceive as thousands of years for them to pull themselves back together but in the Warp it's taking moments, hours, days? Who knows how long. To get an idea of what I'm talking about here, watch "If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device" and they touch on this in bits here and there as a gag with different fragments of the Emperor's soul either making appearance or being referenced, though in their version it's more for comical effect, obviously. This is what's keeping his soul in ruin. The ruinous powers know that to defeat the Anathema he must be battled in the material realm as well as the immaterium, so I don't think they ever truly expected Horus to outright win against the Emperor when they fought. If he had then great, but the Chaos gods are playing the long game with everything they do. So they figure even if Horus can't win he could likely at least damage the Emperor and while Big E is down for the count, they can move forward in corrupting the material plane without his interference. Or at least, significantly less interference. That's just my theory, anyways.

[@megatronmotors221]

Always thought the Emperor's story arch was a great tale of duty, betrayal and immense courage!

[@madeofmandrake1748]

I'm thinking that even if Emps is a perpetual, the act of letting his guard down even for a moment to get off the throne and regenerate would cause a brand new age of strife, along with turning Terra's solar system into a massive warp rift, 2nd only to the eye of terror. Plus The Emperor's body would be reconstituted at the heart of that new warp rift, so there's no telling if or when he could ever return to guide humanity again; he'd need to find a way out of the warp, without getting eaten by all four chaos gods at once.

[@venkelos6996]

I'm one of those few people who hate that the Emperor was folded into the group of the Perpetuals; I always feel like it cheapened other of His elements and deeds. It always felt like if the Emperor had always been a Perpetual, and He knew it, He could've planned better for it, even at the end. I also don't get why He's so driven to prevent the Warp rift from enveloping Terra. I know Holy Terra is important, not least of all because of the Astronomicon, but once the Human Webway Project was ruined, it seems like the Emperor could value Earth less. So the Astronomicon might go out? Half the galaxy has survived for over 100+ years cut off from it by the Cicatrix Maledictum. I just feel like the Emperor could die, regenerate elsewhere, reassert the spirit behind the Astronomicon, and we're back. Create a Blackstone lock for the rift, and we're back. Obviously, there are specific reasons that we don't WANT these problems fixed, but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to fix, or the price really too high. As for me, I sort of hope that Horus DID beat the Perpetuality out of the Emperor, and He CAN'T just hop off, and die. I'm not looking for Him to go anywhere, but other than He has to stay there, it doesn't seem too big a reason He has.

[@Tounushi]

The constant cycle of resurrection is a great idea for the Emperor, but I think that instead of him healing when he is removed from the Throne, he'd instead finally die after having the experience drawn out for so long and he'd be reborn on a random world as a new human being. A worse option is that since his soul would then become untethered from reality and just be in the Warp, it'd be there for an indeterminate amount of time before implanting into a newly conceived human.

[@arsumbris6392]

If the Emperor is trapped on the Golden Throne (keeping it closed keeps him from regenerating) then it would take some kind of army able to confront the flood of demons waiting in the Webway for him to step down. There are indications that an army for this purpose is slowly forming: Bellisarius Cawl has created the Primaris marines, and seeks the "secrets of blackstone". Guilliman has returned, and spoken to the Emperor since he was brought back from death, so we know he has some idea of what the Emperor needs. Valdor (or whoever the King in Yellow is) is building an army of winged Blood Angels and Grails in a bubble kingdom that resembles a webway space. One might even speculate that "Saints" like Celestine, or beings like the Burning Legion are parts of this army massing to free the Emperor from the throne. If Guilliman's resurrection is foreshadowing, then there will be some process by which the Emperor can be brought back to health -- but there would also have to be something to hold back the flood of warp creatures that would break in the moment he leaves the throne.

[@messageinthebottle1673]

Now thats a masochist emperor! He voluntarily subject himself to torture and since he is immortal he is constant state of dying, resurrection, living Thats a intense cycle.

[@damieralhomady3307]

The Emperor (hydra) based on the recent god blight book. Has begun his awakening. It might also be the same death god that the Elder worship. Looking forward to the next peices involving the Emperor

[@empireempire3545]

Wait, where does this bit about horus begging to be killed comes from? i've never heard it previously

[@40KTheories]

From one of the original depictions of the battle on the Vengeful Spirit from the late 80's/early 90's (A short story from Realm of Chaos Lost and the Damned, specifically) if I recall correctly off the top of my head. I'll double check my notes and post the specific source later.

[@40KTheories]

Source is Visions of Heresy (2nd edition) page 443

[@empireempire3545]

@@40KTheories Nice :D

[@Romuls753]

I think it'd make poetic justice for it to be Ollanius Pious the perpetual to have saved The Emperor given Pious was the first Warmaster and tried to kill The Emperor the first time

[@Matt-md5yt]

Not familiar with that theory

[@Romuls753]

@@Matt-md5yt not a theory, it's talked about in the Siege of Terra book Mortis

[@jackbloomer1334]

getting perpetuality beaten out of you sounds so dumb kind gets rid of what makes being a perpetual special if any writer can just write it away

[@Silver_Ash_]

I can’t wait for the day I get to something akin to : “ His eyes opened again, for the first time in over ten thousand years, his wounds healed, his everlasting features returned to the same state as which when his custodians were first born. Silence fell upon the room. A mixture of hope, pride, fear, and awe was plain to see on all attending, only broken by his words. ‘It’s time”.

[@gensaikuroki1793]

I got chills reading this.

[@mam2087]

It is possible , story-wise, the Emperor didn't regenerate/reincarnate because it would take too much time and time was the one thing the Imperium did not have. This was his one and only option to stave off the end of humanity. If things get bad enough , he will die then regenerate , but it may be way too late for that to do much.

[@gryphonofmight]

Who said he hasn't died over and over again?

[@40KTheories]

Keep watching :P

[@paul-antonywhatshisface3954]

Fan theory: there are no true Daemon princes only corrupted people who didn't know they were born perpetual. Kharns a great example and it also explains why so many worthy champions get turned into chaos spawn. They don't have the genetic trigger chaos needs to be immortal. It also explains why becoming a Daemon Prince requires the discarding of your physical self fully so chaos can seperate your immortal soul from its ability to reincarnate in physical form

[@TK199999]

I would be careful in stating the EoM is going to step off the Golden Throne. It maybe a metaphor and or a trick of Chaos on Guillemin. It ultimately doesn't matter since the Golden Throne is about to fail anyway. Though when it does, nothing might happen. Meaning the webway remains closed, the Astronoican still shines and the Emperor's form still rots. For the EoM hasn't needed the Golden Throne in millennia. So its by the EoM on hand that lives and dies a thousand times a day to keep the Imperium safe. Though either way I am pretty sure at some point the Ruinous Powers or Fulgrum will try and make Guillemin think he didn't really speak to his father. That everything from his Resurrection, to the Era Indomiumus and even the burning of Nurgle's Garden was in fact Slannesh (possibly even suggesting Ynnead is in fact Slannesh playing trap on the Alderi). That Slannesh has own Guillemin's soul and destiny since Fulgrum cut his throat. That everything that has happened was intended to weaken the other Chaos gods, so Slannesh would finally be a full equal. While at the same time giving hope to the Human race. Which strengthens the Prince of Pleasure and Pain as well as having that hope destroyed and the sorrow of a trillion humans. To empower the God Pleasure and Pain beyond anything even Neverborn can imagine. While simultaneously tricking the largest group of Alderi in 10,000 years to sacrifice themselves to false God Slannesh has created in Ynnead. Because ultimately all of the other Chaos Gods are mortal feelings and desires taken to the extremes. While Slannesh is the God of the Extremes, with perhaps only Malice being more fundamental to the nature of Chaos than She Who Thrusts.

[@tigeriussvarne177]

Why do I imagine him as his TTS character, standing in a cabinet and talking to himself? xD

[@Shadow_Lord22]

If the Emperor left the Golden Throne won't that mean that Terra is going to end?

[@19eightyforeisnow]

Or evolve?

[@Shadow_Lord22]

@@19eightyforeisnow the emperor becoming a new Terra maybe?

[@edm127]

What if the formation of the Cicatrix Maledictum, similar to the birth of Slaanesh, brushed away smaller warp storms and rifts? Would it have been possible the tear on Terra was removed in such a manner, allowing the Emperor to focus some energy on himself?

[@moisty1874]

Just a thought now that guilliman is awake and knows the history of the Emperor having hold the webway closed therfore stay on the throne and with Belasarows Crawl (dubious spelling) researching black stone & it's ability to interact and close off the effects of the warp. Could it be possible that they figure out some way of using it to close the Web way portal in the imperial dungeon and therefore aid the Emperor?

[@TheSpicyLeg]

I think the Emperor isn’t continually resurrecting, because he cannot die. If the emperor died, two things happen immediately. The astronomicon goes out, and humanity can’t travel the warp, and worse, the webway gate with all the chaos-y stuff on the other side opens. Humanity would be stranded on whatever world or void ship they happen to be on, and those traveling in the warp are simply screwed. Terra would be instantly invaded from within the imperial palace. Who knows how long the emperor would need to “reform”?

[@Robustacap]

I suspect Emperor leaving the Throne even for a while would just about doom Earth. That's why if such an event was taking place, Terminus Degree. Terra possibly lost but Emperor liberated again. As I understand it, that is why he sits there, to guard Terra from Demon invasion, not that the throne acts as a life support as such. Or who knows, these guys can decide to "meditate" for ten millenia so who the hell can but wait and meditate.. Ok, I have this pretty wildcard idea of how Emperor was made by the sacrifice of these "shamans" (maybe Old Ones last gambit?), thus carried their spirits to make the Primarchs, and to be full again, either all Primarchs have to die, or Emperor has to sit on the throne. Terminus Degree dooming all his Sons (demon or not), but freeing him. Until all is lost, Emperor is just not willing to sacrifice his sons (demon or not).

[@MidoriOfTheShuinsen]

While I understand that the sheer size and density of the adamantite balls Ollanius Pius had that fated day is hard for most to believe, don't try and play it off as it being a Custodes instead.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Well I'd be reluctant to die too, if it meant creating a second eye of terror where Terra once was.

[@Turkoktonos1]

It's a grim dark universe. I hope it'll not come to resurrecting Big E. Papa Smurf and his primaris smurfs were bad enough. That's shouldn't become Star Trek. Although i love both universes, i prefer each one in it's frame.

[@lightofdawn117]

It’s possible that the damage done by the Golden Throne may have actually killed the Emperor at certain points before He regenerated back to a pseudo life. I can’t remember accurately but I think there was at least one point, maybe two before the birth of the Great Rift that the Astronomicon very briefly flickered and went out before becoming operational again. Now it could very well have been the mechanisms of the Golden Throne just slowly breaking down, but it’s also possible that the Emperor actually died briefly before coming back. I think it’s very possible the Emperor is physically capable of completely regenerating if He were removed from the Golden Throne, but He intentionally doesn’t rise because there is simply nobody at the moment who could feasibly take His place. The minute He is disconnected, the Talisman of Seven Hammers that He had Vulkan create and install into the Golden Throne would activate and incinerate all of Terra and likely the surrounding space. Until a viable replacement is found that could survive the Golden Throne’s power or a method discovered that could close the Terran Webway for good, He HAS to stay there.

[@gagesmythe6635]

For everyone who has read the siege of terra books so far… is Katsuhiro supposed to be the “lone figure” who throws himself between the Horus and the emperor? Feels like they are setting that up with his growing faith in the divinity of the emperor and all

[@wwoolofl8056]

The idea of the Emperor every holding back from love is pure propaganda.

[@TealWolf26]

Wait, does anyone alive (sans Emperor) know what happened to Horus? Were there any living witnesses or just us and the narrator?

[@mavwinsjeruzvelascolibo-on6450]

I have a theory about perpetuality thing. So hear me out about what if the perpetual beings is the chance of one race within the 40k universe to have god/s because there are not basically physic beings at first and need to have some sort of awakening or cataclysm to become a physic race(the beings not created by the old ones). Perpetuals are special case within one race( just one question, is perpetual case is only available to humans only or eldari). With that being said, perpetual are born within one race with different powers and that powers were their essence need to explore, discover new powers to get stronger, or the powers are needed to embrace as some sort of title( or identification) when they become gods. The process to have god within one race is very difficult to explain, i suspect there are many things needed to fulfilled. Thats why thier true name is special because it holds the power or essence of thier beings. There are born with it and it contain what powers they have. Just i dont if this possible theory because i dont found any evidence to support this and i am just newbie in 40k( only watch videos in youtube) . Oh and the condition to become gods that race is not physic beings is just to three things: 1. Have a physic awakening for one race(meaning just have psycher in one race) 2. Have perpetual or powerful beings 3. The thoughts being accumulated in warp( in humans, it is faith for the emperor).

[@HoneyBadger1779]

I'm much more a fan of the theory that sanguineous beat Horus but went insane in the process only showing the dark angel side of his power and the emperor was forced to deal with him and that was why he was hesitating. If you look at the emperor's life, Do you really think you would have hesitated to kill the traitor horse knowing what was at stake? I think it makes a lot more sense he would have been hesitant to kill sanguineous. Also can we admire for a moment that the man who threw himself at Horus was able to do so given the gigantic weight of his nether's holding him back?

[@IapitusMcHeimer]

What a coincidence, I have been wondering about why the Emperor wasn't regenerating on the throne lately

[@robertnelson9599]

I always assumed it was because of 4th Degree Interdimensional Warp Fuckery

[@unintentionallydramatic]

Only got here but to my understanding it's literally because he's too busy doing a trillion things at once.

[@bigcrusher962]

Didn't malcodor get killed by Magnus and not the golden thrown?

[@40KTheories]

He gets killed by Magnus, gets resurrected by Alivia Sureka, then dies for good on the golden throne

[@bigcrusher962]

@@40KTheories thank you for clearing that up for me. I always appreciate your awesome knowledge when it comes to the lore!

[@DaddyCabby]

The emperor would need to get off the Golden throne to regenerate but staying on the throne is the only thing keeping out the forces of chaos. One day the master of mankind will rise again.

[@lazyeclipse00]

I think Horus somehow cause Sanguinius to fall into the black rage and Berserk Angel attacked the big E savagely ( hence the nature of the wounds). The Emperor was force to kill the Angel and in that moment , with a brief distraction of the unknown soldier , the Emperor focused his power to destroy Horus utterly

[@ScipioWasHere]

Plot Armor is one helluva drug.

[@grunkowich]

The book The dark city reveals some details about the throne. And the mecanicus is pretty much involved. 🤖

[@muttproductions2536]

I don't think Abbadon realized that, by unleashing the raw power of the Warp upon the galaxy by destroying Cadia, he may have just handed the Imperium the single greatest victory they could have ever asked for, as the Emperor's power is derived from the Warp itself. I remember hearing the rumors of the Emperor's psychic presence guiding Guilliman's fleets during the Indomitus Crusade, a feat that probably would not be possible without the major boost in power the Emperor received. Already we are seeing other factions' great leaders return. The Ultramarines saw the resurrection of their Primarch in all his glory. The Necron Dynasties have bore witness to the return of the Silent King after all these millennia. I firmly believe that it is now only a matter of time before we see the God Emperor of Mankind step down from the Golden Throne, to finish what had been started over 10,000 years ago. -Ave Deus Imperator

[@mitchelarchbold9219]

What if they hired the dark eldar/eldar to callapse that part of the webway thus cutting off the warp from attacking the emperor and he could shut it down or leave it for a little or just rest a bit could that be enough for him to try to regenerate?

[@趙伯翰]

I still don’t understand why people are drawing skeleton sitting on the golden throne? To my understanding, the emperor was “severely wounded “ and put into stasis. So basically, his body wasn’t dead, he was only hurt badly/lethally (?). But the stasis kept him alive. Since he was not dead, his body should not be decay. ..

[@darkhighwayman1757]

I was just reading the HH siege of terra and Layak maybe was like even killing the big E wouldnt matter...he had to be destroyed body and soul or he would eventually return. I am digging the books of the siege

[@akumaking1]

Is it possible to clone the Emperor and have his conscious move to another body?

[@40KTheories]

Some within the Inquisition seem to think it's possible