456: Why We’re Divided & Positive Pluralism with Bob Roberts

[@colleenc6101]

One if the best interviews they've done. I called my teen daughter in to listen to the part about the typical Christian parent's way of "protecting" their kids (put them in a Christian bubble till adulthood) and she nodded in agreement with Mr Robert's response and said "preach!" She's seen it over and over again where the bubble mentality only leads to either rebellion or a weak, ineffective faith. We have to change things or ww will keep loosing our kids

[@dkecskes2199]

As a person who went to a good mix of schools, districted public, charter public, and Christian private ones, I so agree. The greatest culture clash I ever had in school was with those kids who had never been outside of the Christian bubble, and were kept so busy with their homework they never could even if they wanted to. They had mostly been taught to "other" anyone outside their bubble, and it showed even with how they interacted with me, as though even I was an imposter because my family didn't have me in their schools every single semester, and I couldn't keep up with the 4-5 hours of homework per night.

[@dkecskes2199]

Thank you for asking for your kid's input. Too many parents and caregivers and teachers simply aren't asking any questions of their kids or listening to them, and they learn pretty quickly which adults in their lives have no interest in their input.

[@patrickc3419]

Christians absolutely should shield their children. IF possible and doable, yes, all Christians with children should withdraw from public schools.

[@patpatterson12]

I deeply regret that I only discovered this podcast yesterday! Today I’m trying to catch up (hah! A long term project!) and I signed up for a Patreon sponsorship. Y’all make me cry.

[@missrobin2088]

They have saved me from insanity. Glad you found it.

[@nancyparlette981]

“When my theology shrunk dramatically, my love for people grew dramatically.”Amen

[@Evelyn-pl3we]

Yes! This was beautifully spoken.

[@marksankey6997]

Amen, sister.

[@greglogan7706]

Nancy Still have trouble with blind hatred and stupidity... especially when it's presented in the name of Jesus Christ

[@nancyparlette981]

@@greglogan7706 yes, that will forever be around us, but what I have seen is how love can change people and help them stop hating.

[@greglogan7706]

@@nancyparlette981 Among the trump cult??

[@JadeousTenerim]

I seriously Laughed Out Loud when Bob Roberts said "American Evangelicals don't have a realistic view of the world." It's absolutely true. We surround ourselves with American Christian culture, then expect to be disciples to the rest of the world? Not happening.

[@CJNooberson]

We need more people like you. Badly!

[@wachukamugenyu3743]

As a Christian woman from Kenya, Africa, I really appreciated the guest you had. He sounds like a true Christian who is really invested in the gospel. In our country we are 70% Christian but we celebrate the Muslim faith and Hindu faith as equally as we do Christmas. Tomorrow is the end of Ramadhan and we have a national holiday where all the Muslims invite their neighbours in their breaking of the fast. The Diwali festival is looked forward to with great happiness as the Indian community decorate the their buildings. We have a Sharia court and Hindu Court to deal with their customs (eg marriage). Our curriculum has religious studies that teach all three main religious faiths at primary school. What it has created is a community that just can't fight over religious matters. No one is allowed to discriminate on faith as it is hard to hate your neighbours when you know about them and they are humanized. I also agree with Pastor Roberts that it distills your faith down to the essential tenets. Thanks, for this interview.

[@revdharp]

This is awesome. I enjoyed this teaching, too. I would love to have that kind of celebration for all people.

[@liav4102]

Thank you! It’s is great to learn from communities who are already doing things rather than still wrestling with them.

[@liav4102]

Many language students will say that they learned more about their own language in their foreign language class than they did in their classes about their own language. Sometimes without contrast you just can’t learn. Studying other religions I think is the same.

[@kimcowling3296]

Great analogy!

[@missrobin2088]

My son said that same thing.

[@daneesledge1626]

His comment on keeping kids isolated in a Christian bubble is the best way to ensure they become nones... so convicting and true

[@JiMun]

Phil, could you also discuss the current Israeli-Palestinian issue? I'm so shocked that churches are so silent on this.. or only speak of the Israeli side.

[@homeschoolingmadeeasy7798]

What's sad is that the whole pandemic could have so easily been a uniting outside threat. Even a president like Bush would have encouraged Americans to come together to fight to protect each other, to sacrifice to preserve

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

I don't think so. I don't because if the decades if groundwork they have put into creating the political divide that has been so toxic for the nation. I don't think that any leader could have used this opportunity to create unity. Even had they tried there would be elements so invested in the culture war that it would still have ended up in a state of division similar to what we are currently in.

[@rhondaleeaping9463]

I totally agree with Christian when she said "I wish Jesus would come back" I feel ya hunny!

[@luisbartolomey3988]

Thank you so much for this show. Praying for you all. May the Lord continue to use you all.

[@mathsarslain]

"We know what we believe. We don't know how to live." So good.

[@Qtini]

I live in Nebraska and the Battle of the Joshes was amazing.

[@2serve4Christ]

51:42 "When my theology shrunk dramatically, my LOVE OF OTHER PEOPLE grew dramatically" - Bob Roberts dropping 💣💣💣. #BLESSYOU #PRAISEGOD. #AMEN!!!! I do fear that this will upset some #Christians.

[@nancyparlette981]

No joke! Just after hearing this pod cast I was reading my college alumni publication and the last page had a story about an alumnus who searched on Facebook for others with his same name. He found 3 other Paul O’Sullivans who also were musicians like him. Now they have the Paul O’Sullivan Band and have been recording together. They have been recognized by media as far away as New Zealand! Go figure! “Come jam with us!” 😆😉

[@homeschoolingmadeeasy7798]

Great guest, really worth the extra time to listen!

[@theCECkicker]

Really enjoyed this interview. My first experience with this approach of bridge building while not giving up their theology, was with The Meeting House in Canada with Bruxy Cavey. Thank you Holy Post for sharing this.

[@Evelyn-pl3we]

The Information Curve is more acceptable than using the term "confirmation bias" that Conservatives will likely deem as left-wing rhetoric or something related to CRT. So, it makes sense that the author kept "bias" out of their article. ALSO, this episode was FANTASTIC! Pastor Bob Roberts is a gem. Wow!! I can't even imagine the people he has brought to Christ by simply being loving and honest about the faith.

[@dckmusic]

I hate t say it, but when Christian says she wishes Jesus would come back so he could be our authority, I think there would be a lot of Christians that wouldn't recognize him.

[@robertguidry2168]

My thoughts exactly.

[@virginia456us]

I love 1:02:15. We know but we don't know.

[@Evelyn-pl3we]

They would probably call Him a liberal, Marxist, communist, social justice warrior, etc! Lol.

[@colinvandenberg3446]

Sadly, yes. The church persecuted Jesus, not the government. Pilate wanted to let him go.

[@truthseeker9641]

“Come loathe with us” 🤣🤣

[@marksankey6997]

I appreciate the opportunity to connect with you here. I must first say that I did not listen to the entire discussion but it all centers on the issue we call "unity". In John 17, we have the record of Jesus' prayer before they went out to the garden, where He had His greatest moment of travail. In deep earnest prayer He released the last shred of His human flesh, that is His soul. His outer flesh was shred later. Are we dying daily? Is the cross having it's full work in us? We are all in process and must know a fulness of our Father's grace and extend it to believers and unbelievers alike. We are called to love, to lay down our lives before others. Sometimes, when our hair gets up, it means to simply zip it. Yet Jesus spoke the truth even to the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, the Herodians and the rest. And He spoke the truth to the woman at the well, Jacob's well. Speaking the truth in love, we all grow up into Him and unto a unity of faith. Not doctrine but faith. True faith always aligns with true teaching. Jesus prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one. That requires us to know His presence 24/7. For that we need His abundant grace. It is for ourselves, for all that believe, so that others will be drawn to the One who is worthy.

[@lonnyerb8059]

You guys keep sanity alive in America!

[@pj3115]

One of your best conversations. Keep it coming...Holy Post, come to common Love with us!!

[@2serve4Christ]

QUESTION: What moral principle should guide us? Related to answer: “A proud man is always looking down on things and people: and, of course, as long as you are looking down you cannot see something that is above you.” ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

[@katherinefisher8181]

Girl Who Wore Freedom is on my calendar. Looking forward to it after hearing about for so long.

[@judyclark1449]

Thanks for another great discussion and expanding awareness of a global discourse versus insulated Christians reduced effectiveness to reach others. I agree that pastors who endorse politicians that don’t call out bad public behavior cause confusion.

[@madamepasteure]

Thank you once again 💖

[@andrewwoode]

47:50 - 58:31: Exposure to different faiths has strengthened ours, and Evangelism 59:10 - 1:04:22: conversing with non-Christians, practicing faith 1:04:40 - 1:11:00: Religious freedom globally, and standing for the gospel; see the culture in the world 1:11:20 - 1:21:50 : reengaging in the world

[@elbryant1226]

So...we came into a congregation and tried to be ourselves and be "different" and an Associate pastor said we were "trying to change the church." The environment had become so toxic for our family that we had to leave. There was so much of an advantaging of very right-leaning POVs that people us, who were just as in love with Jesus and anybody in the congregation, but who voted progressively and actually believed in the science related to the Pandemic, it was difficult to find community.

[@2010mejia]

So there was two fights... one for the title of Josh Swain and one for the "Josh" title. The original Josh Swain that initiated the challenge won the Josh Swain title.... to my knowledge. The other was won by the 4 year old (good for him!). I could be wrong.

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

I started self-publishing things about five years ago, and I signed up for Academia.edu to help research some of the stuff I was writing about. Then I started getting notices that I was mentioned hundreds of times. I never did sign up for the paid version that would tell me what my mentions were, but after a few times I looked it up and there's an economist named Shaun Kennedy that's not completely unknown. He's been a college teacher and published lots of articles.

[@auadisian]

When I was at UCF, two or three Joshes thought of starting a Bible study for guys named Josh...

[@robertguidry2168]

It's harder said than done to create communities united in Christ rather than political and socioeconomic lines. We cannot avoid engaging the culture, but at the same time we can't let the culture define us. What's the answer?

[@rhondaleeaping9463]

Yall! JASON ASKED A QUESTION!!!👀

[@bcdk1995]

Love him!

[@elisabethfung658]

To Christian's point about conservatives who move to find a more homogeneous community, here's a similar story. One of my teenage daughter's friends moved with her family from Dallas, TX to Ohio to find a more suitable progressive community. I think the segregation happening in the church is also happening in the broader non Christian culture as well. Politics has become the moral center for both sides.

[@innercartography]

First of all: "Facebook is satan's urinal." Ha! Thank you! 1. Media gluttony - Years ago a professor introduced me to the book The Gutenberg Elegies, by Sven Birkerts, which explored, in part, how electronic and physical media communicate information differently, how the information is affected, and how the reader's experience is different. That same professor later taught the Socratic debate about speech vs. writing. It fascinates me that the way we wring our hands about the internet today is how people wrung their hands about Gutenberg's press in the 1400s, or about *writing itself* much earlier. Today's problems are not trivial. I only mean to say that it is not unique for societies to get caught up in ideological wrestling matches over technological changes. (Neil Postman's Technopoly is great on this subject) 2. Leadership / Celebrity - When Christian said, "If only Jesus would come back," I wish Phil had not moved on. I liked where she was going. Also, isn't the relief and revolution of Christianity that Jesus never left? Yet humans (or I) struggle to hear or take orders from someone who is not readily captured and digested by my routine senses. For as long as Israel was an organized society, God tried to tell them, "I'm all the leadership you need," and his followers said, "No, give us a figurehead instead!" I hunger for an idol / celebrity / authority to fix my attention on, and have to be constantly reminded that at absolute best, any human is playing telephone for God. Authority in general seems to be a concept deeply in need of rehabilitation in Christianity. The U.S., white, evangelical tradition of almost militaristic uniformity and subservience to a command presence (often in the form of a rhetorical and behavioral routine) reminds me all too much of the Pharisees and not the Shepherd. 3. Splintering of community - The families of Israel's patriarchs were divided, Israel was divided, the disciples were divided. Then Jesus died and tore his own temple veil with an invisible hand. But even then, the church of Christ stopped being singular almost as soon as he ascended to heaven. It's weird that in a spiritual movement delivered by a God who abolished the need for sacred separation people continue to fixate on division as the path to righteousness. My family bounced between denominations and churches. Whenever my parents were dissatisfied with some point of doctrine or foreign scent on the wind, the solution was never humility, curiosity, or circumspection. It was always "let's ditch these pagans." Another offhand comment in the conversation merits more attention: "at least our cars are more reliable." I think in the past this crew discussed how ease precipitates decay. Or maybe they said faith is polluted as we cling to ease. My memory is fuzzy. The point is: if we had broken-down cars and terrible internet connections, would these problems be so bad? I'm not trying to be a Luddite (although I'm half-Luddite). What I mean is that maybe piece of an answer to these dilemmas is to conscientiously inject friction into our routines. Not only in the sense of slowing down, but in the sense of getting out to the edges of "our" territory and seeing what life on the frontier is like.

[@geoffhorswood6234]

So much good stuff in this comment

[@missrobin2088]

Thank you for this comment.

[@teestrypzSOG]

Would love to see a Paul vanderklay commentary on this podcast

[@dkecskes2199]

Thank you for this interview, it helped soften my heart so well. When it is available, a link to the website pertaining to the interfaith conference mentioned would be deeply appreciated.

[@charlesrankin1190]

One thing I have to say to Mr. Roberts is that I cannot accept that Islam is a religion of peace. Because doing so would be to invalidate the testimony of Nabeel Qureshi, a great apologist who passed away several years ago.

[@karen1blaine2]

"We could all agree on him, couldn't we?" - Christian about Jesus please coming back. Um...we people agreed so well the first time, didn't we?!

[@MisterDevin35]

You guys have an opinion on the current conflict in Israel? Is it God's providence or will for the Palestinians to be expelled? Are the Jews operating outside of the will of our Savior/Christ who instructs us to love our enemies, and exercise compassion?

[@freeindeed7]

1 John 4:20 "Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen." John 13:35 "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." The failure of Christians to love each other, much less the world, is the reason there is division. Everyone knows God is love. Is it loving to have contempt for the less fortunate? Is it loving to have contempt for people based on skin color? Is it loving to have contempt for people based on them having different political beliefs? Contempt for people is incompatible with the gospel, especially when that contempt is tied to beliefs/skin color/economic status.

[@prbroussard]

Y'all need to get Mark Charles on to hear a different view of the problems in the Church. See his book "Unsettling Truths"

[@karen1blaine2]

I second this recommendation!! His book shook me to the core and is crucial for understanding our "issues".

[@bcdk1995]

Excellent book! I listened on Audible.

[@colinvandenberg3446]

The article's description of 9/11 Trutherism makes it seem a lot more sensible and accepted amongst ong liberals than it actually is.

[@pj3115]

Skye says, "FB is Satan's Urinal!" lol

[@Juan_1603]

I miss veggietales :(

[@bcdk1995]

I totally heard Bob the Tomato when he said that. We LOLed.

[@smwall4Him]

awash in tricky bits, facebook is satan's journal....so many good nuggets;)

[@sumplais]

"Journal"?? I thought he said "urinal".

[@smikebacts]

To me there have been 5 great tests of the Christian church in my life time. The political crisis, the media crisis, the Me too movement, racial equity, and child molestation and human trafficking. The Christian church has failed every test.

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

If Jesus cam back could the church unite under his authority? If Jesus taught, in the flesh here and now, a message counter to a churches doctrine di you really believe they will accept him as the 2nd coming or denounce him?

[@veggiet2009]

I've never been this early 👋

[@JaseRuggy]

Same

[@andygraning2190]

Me too

[@veggiet2009]

@@JaseRuggy it took every ounce of coffee in my coffee cup to stop me from commenting "FIRST"

[@rhondaleeaping9463]

@@veggiet2009 yeah then that would be showing off. And me being even more jealous😏

[@JaseRuggy]

@@veggiet2009 lol

[@salimapeacejoy]

I wonder how people think they're going to heaven when they are scared of diversity. The Bible let's us know that there will be people from every nation and tongue (language) and a number that no man can number. Revelation 7:9

[@jendragon42]

Lol. Communities of common loathing. Gather round for the two minutes of hate?

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

If Sam Brownback is a Christian I feel I made the right decision to not be a Christian.

[@zackattack366]

Are we just not going to talk about the blatant heresy of modalism that this guest expressed about the trinity? I can’t be the only one that heard that.

[@geoffhorswood6234]

I think it was close to modalism, but as a brief explanation of what was said at some time in the past to explain the Trinity to a rabbi and an imam, I figure we’re missing so much context that it’s not sensible to pass a final judgment

[@Origen17]

Because too many people watch the mainstream media. Simple.

[@guitarfan01]

Too many people watch *any* media. It isn't just MSM that's the problem. MSM will slant the facts, but alternative media all too often will just make something up because it sells ads. Sites like beforeitsnews or Infowars are basically bad science fiction written and produced about (sometimes) real people.