5 Dark Deltarune Theories

Writer's Analysis - 5 Dark Background Stories in Deltarune
Toby Fox's game Deltarune may not seem like much at first glance, but it really stands among the pantheon of epic fantasy stories. There is so much going on in just one game! And we're only 2 chapters in! While we like to focus on the main characters, their struggles, the humor, their quest, and budding romances, behind all of the good, fluffy stuff are numerous darker subplots unfolding in the background.
As Lars will go over, these darker subplots are important for strengthening the game's core themes and messages. However, they cannot take center stage, because giving them too much time would be detrimental to the overall plot and flow of the main plot. Thus, the careful balance and dance of managing all the subplots beings!
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Clips used for this Video:
Deltarune, created by Toby Fox, 2018, gameplay by Lars.
Undertale,. created by Toby Fox, 2015.
All rights belong to the creators of the clips and artwork used in this video, but they are implemented under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976. As an aside, despite the Harem’s personal views on certain stories, we highly recommend you check these stories and shows out. It will help improve our future conversations with you, and they will help inspire your writing. It has for us.

[@TimmyDaTurtle]

A lot of people think that kris is the knight that is creating the dark fountains, but what if it wasn't actually kris, or ralsei, it was the annoying dog. In Chapter 1, the annoying dog is working on something in the library, and in chapter 2, a dark fountain appears in the library, where the dog can be found in the "easter egg" where you the player end up getting a game over.

[@camillesharem]

This makes a load of sense! It would also be a wonderfully meta move on Toby's part to insert himself into the game. He's also there to attack Kris and set up a chance to meet Gaster in chapter 2, as well as provide a Krusie moment for all the shippers out there. Toby has always been the one pulling the strings...

[@kiho9048]

That makes a lot of sense actually

[@Just_Mochii]

well the dark fountain was made during chapter 2 when susie and kris are in the other dark world, we know this bc ralsei didnt sense the other dark fountain until susie and kris left the classroom.And we know for a fact it isnt kris bc the spade king has met the knight so he would’ve recognized kris as the knight

[@camillesharem]

@@Just_Mochii And with the newest lore dump from Toby, things are getting spicier and more complicated. We'll find out in chapter 3 what is up with Kris, and hopefully get more info on if there is another entity within them. However, it appears as if strange things have been happening in Hometown for a while... I seriously need to put together a video addressing the new stuff Toby released.

[@Just_Mochii]

@@camillesharem yup

[@TheSkyGuy77]

If someone _told_ me "reality" wasn't "real", I'd laugh it off. If someone _showed_ me proof of it, then I might go a bit crazy.

[@camillesharem]

Hahaha, it would be a serious glitch in the Matrix! Poor Jevil, that joker has had his brains scrambled good by whatever he witnessed.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@camillesharem And Spamton is also quite messed up by that realization

[@camillesharem]

@@TheSkyGuy77 Yes, he is! And the interesting thing is that Spamton by contrast to Jevil is a far more recent victim. His rise to wealth and popularity and then his fall to insanity and desperation seemingly occurred not too long before the events within the game. This would suggest that if the Knight is indeed the one who revealed the truth to Jevil and made him go bonkers, that this guy took a break before proceeding to open up these fountains and corrupt the denizens of the Dark World again. That opens up an all new mystery, and it's one that I feel Spamton could have given us more info on, but he was too focused on his own plans.

[@mrblakeboy1420]

i’d say i already know

[@goodcobra2597]

Just realized December could be the knight. we know nothing of her personality. her disappearance in whatever disaster happened got asgore fired. I feel like when we go into that underground borough thing with those doors we will find her there.

[@camillesharem]

Dess is really fascinating. The recent stuff Toby dropped, like the cupboard webpage where you can find a creepy chair... Yeah, someone had something horrible done to them in that chair! It could be that Dess is the Knight. It does kind of come down to a timeline of when Jevil and Spamton started going nuts.

[@partymix1997]

wasn't Alphys the person that created the almagamates? Gaster is presumably the person that made the blueprints for the D.T. extractor, and is known he made the core. also the text after Gaster's is also used by Susie and the king, it seems that is used as someone whispering.

[@camillesharem]

This is true. The craziest experiments on the monsters themselves were conducted by Alphys. However, it's clear from the later messages that Gaster was having a conversation(s) with her regarding their work. He's been messing around with his fellow monsters as well, though to what full extent we're not yet certain. The text being potentially Susie's is very intriguing. The date mined information within the game suggests that Susie interfered in the process in one draft for chapter 1. If Toby does stick with that older idea, it will be curious to see how Susie resolves her comment that no one can choose who they are in this world with the fact that she is actively pressing against fate and does what she wants. It could mean time travel or something like that in the future, if this indeed Susie speaking at the beginning, but it's hard to tell right now how she would accomplish that. Perhaps something in the Bunker?

[@EpicFailureFive]

@@camillesharem To clarify. What they are referring to is the "typer numbers" used in the intro. JaruJaru made a video on this recently. Typers are coding shortcuts Toby uses that denote the specific font and speech patterns of certain characters. The typer used for the intro sequence is 666, 667, etc. for the person speaking in caps, further proof this is Gaster as the number 6 is heavily associated with him. When the "Chara" character speaks, the typer used is 2. This typer isn't specific to any character. It simply mutes all background sounds while displaying the standard font text. Susie is simply the only character in the Light World that has also had an instance of this muting effect. There is also another typer that uses the same effect for the dark world, and King uses this in chapter 1. Most likely this is still a different character speaking after Gaster, and I also suspect this is a character similar to post-genocide "Chara".

[@cutiepie120048]

1. I wonder if the disposed vessel we made is gonna pop back up? What if the third entity the player and stuffs us in it - or what if it itself obtained a soul? 🤔🤔🤔 2. There are a bunch of examples of Kris struggling with us. When we walk through the rooms in QUEEN's realm that have different people's name on it (with Susie and Kris's internet history) but when we go inside the room that's labeled Asriel, Kris closes their eyes because they want to protect their brother's privacy from us. There's also - like you said - how they phrase the dialogue option we make them pick. We don't have to guess about that - people comment on the expressions Kris makes with concern most of the time. Kris was also shown to be HEAVILY upset during the snow grave route. Also -- Kris DEFINITELY hates us because they can't play piano like they want when we're in control. I think Susie commented on how Kris seemed frustrated 😭😭😭 3. I think the bunker is a BIG part of this. Some people had a theory that there was a dark world that might be in the bunker and that Des might be trapped there 🤔🤔🤔 Keep Up The Good Work~!

[@camillesharem]

You made excellent observations about Kris' reactions to the Player's control. Well done! I'd love to see the original Vessel come back at some point. It's kind of been hinted that that will be the case, because our design for the Thrash Bot came back in Chapter 2 and was used competently against us in the fight with Rouxls Kaard. Toby has done a lot of foreshadowing in the game so far, and there's a lot that hasn't yet circled back, since we're only two chapters in. Oh boy... That would be so dark if Dess is still stuck in the Bunker...

[@tysondennis1016]

I have the “December Knight” fan theory, and that December/Knight is secretly working to undermine the Titans.

[@camillesharem]

That's honestly a really cool theory. That would be a neat twist for December's ultimate fate.

[@sahilhossain8204]

Hmm yes of course toby would pull that off

[@HeronHero]

The darkest theory of all, of course, is that Krusie never becomes canon 😞

[@camillesharem]

Lars here! Well, is a sad, dark theory indeed... In the Harem, and here on our channel and podcast we all enjoy our own ships, we also understand that shipping alone can be draining and waylaying. However, I have made the two Krusie videos that we have not just because it's a sweet ship (Even though according to our Ten Commandments of Shipping, all ships are trash. Hahaha!), but because there is undeniable evidence of a stronger, potentially romantic connection between Kris and Susie, which could also complement the overall story. It's fascinating to me to see so many fans vehemently oppose the idea of the two leads getting together, despite the evidence, saying that it is only friendship. There is no denying that a strong and healthy friendship is exactly what Susie and Kris need, but a careful examination of the gameplay strongly hints that Kris is expressing feelings for Susie through the limited actions that we as the Player are given. Because I know that flirting with Susie is NOT what I would have done to try and stop our fight back in chapter 1! Not after all the abuse Susie gives! That's absolutely Kris shining through. And there are a few things to suggest that Susie herself is open to a deeper relationship with Kris. A lot of these smaller details are overshadowed by Noelle's obvious crush on Susie, Susie's curiosity about Noelle, and potential in that relationship. All of that is fine and understandable. But if you really want to get into a story, you have to be able to approach characters from different angles, especially if they're justifiable. And it certainly prompts good discussion, which makes Krusie a great talking point! Now, this does make me wonder if I should do a video about Moash...

[@goodcobra2597]

Funny thing is that in ch 1 if you talk to sans theres a dialog option that you can say to him that states "its great to see you again".

[@camillesharem]

Yup! That's one of the reasons why I am fairly certain that Deltarune is connected the jumbled timelines from Undertale even if this story is not a direct prequel or sequel to that game. Sans knows the Player from before and is in a roundabout way commenting on the connections between the games.

[@tloks8737]

16:50 you throw in so much headcannon when it comes to character motives i cant get behind your theories. its like im listening to an au reading

[@tloks8737]

like we basically know kris and ralsei have a plan we and susie aren't aware of, why not mention that instead of making up a character to explain their actions

[@Litepaw]

😱😱 I just realized something very interesting that hasn't really been talked about enough. Gaster = Stager

[@saranorah228]

This is exactly what I've been looking for for the last few days!

[@saranorah228]

...Never mind

[@saranorah228]

Chara doesn't need to be redeemed! YOU kill everyone not Chara!

[@saranorah228]

And the "evil" things Kris did aren't evil

[@saranorah228]

There isn't another entity Kris is doing these things themselves

[@saranorah228]

Chara doesn't do the things you're claiming thay are, genocide is your choice and what Kris does outside of your control is there choice

[@vomitingflame9410]

Personally I think kris only has their own soul that we took over, walking might be a bit hard without one. In the end if the first chapter they were probably just hungry since all they eat is from the dark word which susie says doesn't make her any less hungry. And in the end of chapter 2, they might have done what they did to make sure that someone could help them get rid of us or atleast keep us in check atleast after snowgrave

[@colwo4565]

This is not really dark, but its possible that Mettaton is "mike". I mean he acts like a game show host and his screen could resemble a tv.

[@camillesharem]

Given how many Undertale characters have spilled into Deltarune, I'll be shocked if Mettaton isn't in it! I personally love how just a few references to this mysterious character Mike has the fans in a frenzy of expectation to see him. It speaks to Toby's ability to make the most of his characters.

[@PheivAlive]

About the Chara 3rd entity theory, do you have any thoughts about the red and white imagery in regards to the soul? The heart will appear white in many circumstances, leading some to believe the third entity is a monster soul. What do you think? I was thinking it could maybe be explained by Chara being the red part of the soul, and any candidate monster being the white part of the soul. Perhaps we're not playing as the "player" at all, but as Chara, and "you" in snowgrave refers to them. Or, maybe the player and chara are interconnected... But that would mean FOUR entities are in Kris. LOL!

[@camillesharem]

I have wondered about this myself. The heart changes depending on the situation. There is some consideration to be given to the old Undertale observations, that the different coffins and colors represented different people and their attributes. It could be that those attributes are being tested or brought forth in different circumstances and battles. If there is a monster's soul residing within Kris as well, I think it could be a part of Asriel. This is some speculating that I want to get into in my next Deltraune video, but the fact that Ralsie can jump between dark Kingdoms infers a direct connection he has to Kris. Some people think he is the horns that Kris had as a kid (which is a theory I personally like), but it could also be a result of whatever happened to Kris when they were made the vessel. On the night when the four kids when to the Bunker, something horrifying happened. Gaster has been experimenting on his fellow monsters for so long now, that it is very possible that he did something to Asriel as well, implanting a brother's soul into his siblings. The perfect merger of Monster and Human, a full SOUL. But right now... That's largely speculation on my part. Again, we don't have a lot, just enough to start pointing us in feasible directions. And thinking along these lines might help us better understand the heart's changing colors.

[@goodcobra2597]

Deltarune is definitely modeld after serialized/Slice of life hybrids like svtfoe,steven universe, and gravity falls. so later on in the story, shit will hit the fan. Susie,Kris, and Ralsei will be in for a more darker adventure in chapters 6 and 7.

[@camillesharem]

That's absolutely a given! IU can't wait for those crazy chapters! Especially since they'll come only after we've stewed for a while on chapters 3, 4, and 5.

[@EpicFailureFive]

Seam seems to suggest that the person who talked to Jevil isn't the Knight, since they call them "strange someone" instead of Knight. It also seems like the Knight only appeared recently at the same time as the dark fountains. I actually believe that the "Chara" character is a demon with a direct connection to the dark world, and is Gaster's experiment mentioned in Entry 17. Thus the garbage noise titled "smile" is actually associated with this demon and not Gaster. So "Chara" is the strange someone that corrupted the secret bosses. (meaning Spamton and Kris are being manipulated by the same entity) I suspect that the main concept of Deltarune is that the "game" itself is the antagonist, the RPG-trope filled story is all a scheme by this "Chara-like" demon character to claim the power over the world which Gaster holds. (As I believe Gaster is the Angel since Toby seems to be hinting Gaster created this world). So "Chara" is a diegetic representation of the game within Deltarune.

[@camillesharem]

That's a good analysis right there! And thanks for reminding me of exactly what Seam said. It could very well be that it was indeed Chara who told Jevil what was going on. A part of me wants to also speculate Gaster, but he's clearly taken a more hands off approach to everything so that wouldn't make any sense for him to be the culprit.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

What if the ultimate bad is actually Asriel? And the "angel" is actually Dess? With Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and us along for the ride.

[@camillesharem]

That would be something insane to see! Man, given the newest release of info, Dess is way more important than I initially thought.

[@Unethical2023]

Your Deltarune videos are always interesting. I completely agree with Chara being the 3rd entity.

[@camillesharem]

Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoyed it. :) Chara as another identity was the only good way to explain their font suddenly appearing, the bizarre reactions from Kris at the end of each chapter that run counter to what other characters recall them acting like, and of course the way they move when we see Kris wrest control from the Player and act on their own, functioning just fine. I really do think that Chapter 3 is going to drop some bombshells on us when it comes to figuring out what the heck is exactly happening to Kris.

[@retropolis4225]

@@camillesharem Kris acts weirdly at the end of each chapter because we are controlling them without their permission and by removing the soul (us) they can gain a little bit of control on themselves. The "strange walk" at the end of each chapter can be explained by the fact that without a soul they are weakened (since the soul is definitely needed for them to live) I don't think Chara is doing something, it's just Kris that is scared of us

[@camillesharem]

@@retropolis4225 I can see where that argument comes from. Going against the Player's wishes would be taxing. However, if Kris were THAT weak before having the Player's soul inserted, I feel like others would comment on their sudden burst of athleticism. Instead, they only comment on how Kris is either far more talkative than before or isn't as skilled as they were before. Very likely though, we won't have a deeper understanding of this strange relationship until after we've explored the trauma in the Dreemurr family's past. I'm hoping we get some interesting insights into younger Kris since their home will be the source for this third Dark Kingdom.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

I think the dark worlds represent fiction, stories, and dreams. The light world is "reality"; concrete, defined, and "real". The Roaring is both worlds crashing together because the barrier between the two has too many holes. (Imagine if your favorite fictional characters suddenly became real, if magic itself suddenly existed and was based on your emotion of DETERMINATION at that moment in time. It would be absolute [[chaos, chaos!]]) When the Roaring starts, not only will the dark and light worlds combine, it will (probably) also pull our window into their worlds (the part Gaster controls) into the mish-mash.

[@camillesharem]

I think this is a very good observation and interpretation. And it fits with Ralsie's description of what the resulting calamity would be like. In the real world, Darkners are just stationary items, but something about their world can have a profound influence on the Lightners. I am hoping that we will learn a little more about that relationship starting in chapter 3.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@camillesharem Same

[@zhetimmeh3095]

That theory about Gerson and Father Alvin was amazing. Perhaps the teachings father Alvin's religion would have some undertones about the dark world, but without truly telling it to the others? Maybe it's not even needed. (As seen by Undyne, being bluntly told about the existence of the dark world, a woman who would absolutely love the thought of suplexing any bad guys who opposes her, and seems like a adventurous willing candidate to go there, or atleast check it out if given the opportunity.) People will just brush it off as some silly fairy tale, or that you are crazy and talking nonsense. And what we see in the dark worlds are likely aftermaths of what they once were, they used to be way more grander, before they got abandoned, both chapters support this as both were in some kind of disarray by their leaders. Almost all the people that live there mention about their lives, or situation being way better before __. But lightners show up and seemingly seem to fix things by just being there, being themselves. But that really makes me wonder, why does Ralsei want to put every darkner into one spot? It's a little weird... Another thing: Catti mentions to Kris about, how he studied occult with her. Maybe some occult ritual summoning went wrong... And now he is stuck with Chara's occasional possesions? And as for the soul, Gaster's experiment for the vessel could have gone wrong, and thwarted by Chara, and what i think will maybe happen, is Chara is using the current player's soul, to do it's own thing, and eventually gain more power over it later, for as Chara is too weak to gain full control over Kris. (as seen by his unnatural movements) as seen from Undertale, Chara became stronger and WAY more promiment when you gain EXP and levels. To the point he takes you over on occasions, the same could be happening here with the snowgrave route in chapter 2, as you can clearly see Kris acting way different, and talking way different in a way more sinister tone he normally would, with allot of ill selfish intent. Edit: Holy hell i think i might be onto something. Perhaps Father Alvin's religion, is the good, light side of the deltarune, while the occult studies of Catti and Kris were that of the deltarune's equillevant of satan. Ever after the occult incident ritual with Kris and Catti (and whoever else.) are now in a power struggle between eachother. Fighting for control, light VS dark. (Kris VS chara as an example.) From cultists vs priests, to angels and demons, it will determine the future of the world and dark world. Either side will be trying to draw you in as much as they can. You, the player have the option to make light, or dark win. It is why Chara doesn't have enough power over you, you are the deciding factor for what happens with anything. You are the embodiment of determination. And depending on your choices, Chara could appear and act himself as little as possible, as Chara can only watch and struggle to go along with what Kris is doing, as he rarely as any leftover power from your choices. Except at night. Every option, and choice you do, is in your hands. You are the one to determine the fate of the world. And you decide who will win based on your actions, and who you empower/favor. Your choices DO matter.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Both light and dark are out of sync bc someone on BOTH SIDES is manipulating people into supporting one side or the other. Two knights?

[@sahilhossain8204]

No it must be chara and the Roaring knight that's causing the unbalance

[@princetbug]

Kris opens a dark fountain at home because Toriel has no choice but to be there; she is a reassurance not only as Kris' mother but also as a strong adult monster. They may be leaving the door open in hopes that others may come in to investigate and find out that Dark Worlds exist, in particular Undyne who also may be a powerful ally in helping Kris deal with the player and the Dark Worlds.

[@Gnidel]

I think the friend of Alvin is You. The creator, after which the town in Ralsei's kingdom is named, the one who created a vessel.

[@camillesharem]

Woah! That could be a very serious twist. Basically make the player begin questioning their own history with the game. That would be an incredible mind game. I'd have to give that some serious thought to see how Toby could pull that one off and make the players believe it, too.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Maybe the Gaster is... You. 😂

[@camillesharem]

@@TheSkyGuy77 Gaster is the friends we made along the way!

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@camillesharem Ayy 😎 👍

[@wscamel226]

2:28 - right there when I heard "were created by G-" I thought you're gonna say Gaster

[@sagacious03]

Great analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@camillesharem]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TheSkyGuy77]

How did Kris end up in a situation where 2 entities are controlling their body? What, did they do some occult Ouija board shenanigans and summon Gaster & Chara? 😂

[@camillesharem]

You are onto something there, actually. In Chapter 2, Catti talks with Kris about they have experimented with the occult. Noelle has also been meeting with Catti recently to conduct spells and other such things. I didn't get too deep into it because it is the merest reference with nothing else yet to back it up.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@camillesharem I mean Gaster's signature reference of a series of 6's kinda made me think that, yeah.

[@solaris3251]

something tells me, that it has something to do with that banker down town. There's even a dialogue where the monster kid says that Kris said there was something down there, before Susie interrupted him.

[@camillesharem]

@@solaris3251 The bunker is definitely a part of all of this. Noelle told Kris that they never found anything while exploring in the woods, but clearly there is a bunker! Kris won't talk to Susie about it and the other kids are scared because of whatever Kris told them way back when. The fact that Noelle doesn't remember is very telling. That bunker is key to finding out what exactly happened to Kris, to Noelle, to Dess, and very likely something happened to Asriel too.

[@EpicFailureFive]

Nah. It was a scrying mirror that was broken. *cough* shadow crystals *cough*

[@cikatida]

I closed the dark world before I knew about Spamton or Jevil... Did I accidentally kill them if I didn't know to spare them/fight them? They aren't in my town. ;^;

[@camillesharem]

Excellent question! If you didn't fight either Jevil or Spamton, they remain in the old Dark World sites, cut off from the rest of the story. However, if you play and beat them, either through killing them or pacifying them, Jevil and Spamton each give you a piece of themselves to use in future battles. And if you put them in your bag at the same time, they'll talk to each other. But both are so insane that they would be dangerous to have running around in your town. So you either have them as items or not at all.

[@cikatida]

@@camillesharem Oh my gosh! You are my hero! I've been wondering for ages and poking around the internet with no success. Seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question! I think I'm going to go back. I need these bag interactions in my life. Lol.

[@camillesharem]

@@cikatida You're welcome! It's a lot of fun to go back and play through the Jevil and Spamton fights! And if you equip Jevil's Tail or Jevil's Knife (depending on whether you kill or spare him), you'll also get different kinds of dialogue with characters in chapter 2. For example, Tasque Manager will immediately fight you if anyone on your team as Jevil equipped, because he is pure chaos and she is all about order. Hope you enjoy going back and finding those two bosses!

[@ivyart3737]

Even though I know that Chara isnt the one speaking in the intro cuz the song is literatly "another HIM" But if you look at the way they speak The text speed, doesn't Chara speak like that in the end of genocide? and stuff like "interesting, very interesting." and "Excellent. " That is literatly how Chara talks

[@camillesharem]

Which is a good observation! This similarities are really strong, which could be indicative of reveals yet to come!

[@TheGamerninja15]

In my headcanon, the Knight was once the Mayor of Hometown before Mayor Holiday took over and he was filled with rage and vengeance. So he took away Dess in an act of revenge and Kris was the only witness of the kidnapping. He would soon become The Roaring Knight and would plan to cause the Roaring in order to gain revenge on EVERYONE who disrespected him by destroying the world. But for the Undertale ver. of the headcanon, he was the one who CAUSED the War between humans and monsters in the first place! See the parallels? The two casualties the Knight could have possibly caused in Undertale and now Deltarune?

[@nongmotrash]

i'm a little late, but nice video! i don't exactly agree on a lot of things, but you brought up a lot of interesting points and interpretations that i'd never thought of before and haven't seen anyone else talk about. i always love hearing you ramble about deltarune and i'm really looking forward to your ralsei video and chapter 3 prediction. however, if you don't mind indulging me and doing some reading, i wanted to ask about something. there's one thing that's been brought up by you in this video (and by others) that has really been bugging me, the 3rd entity theory. i don't want to go around trashing people's theories (it seems at least somewhat plausible), but i cannot shake the feeling that having a 3rd entity controlling kris would be very detrimental to the story. i don't want to sound too harsh, i mean i love having an excuse to think about this story i adore even more, but i just wanted to share my thoughts and maybe get a second opinion since you seem to quite like this theory, and i'm certainly not an expert on storytelling. i feel that kris being _possessed_ to rip out their soul and act outside the player's control instead of them taking the matter into their own hands really hurts kris' character. different people have speculated about who the 3rd entity could be (gaster, chara, frisk, someone else??), but i personally don't care much for who the 3rd entity is, just that it's not kris. if kris is the one doing these things, it really shows a lot about their motivations, and it develops their relationship with the player controlling them. think to when they pulled out a knife at the end of chapter 1. if this was kris' choice, basically pulling a prank by intentionally faking the player out only to end up eating some pie, that's a really interesting and funny interaction that shows what they might think of us and how they are dealing with being controlled. and it totally fits their character too, as it mirrors the pranks they pulled on noelle and others in the past. and for the end of chapter 2, if kris is acting off their own motivations, slashing the car tires to force a sleepover, and opening a dark fountain so that they can go on another adventure with susie, that shows a lot! it highlights how much kris really cares about preserving this new life they've stumbled into, and well as their character flaws with the reckless actions they take to achieve that. i personally find those explanations so much more compelling than kris being possessed into carrying out a strange plan by a unknown entity that probably won't be revealed until the end of the game. that really just feels like a kind of cheap plot device, but that's just me. but more importantly, because kris can't ever take control for themselves, it prevents dynamic between kris and the player to be fully explored, which is one of the parts of deltarune i'm most interested in. if you read all that, thank you! again, i don't mean to sound too harsh. i'd love to hear your thoughts if you could spare the time :)

[@camillesharem]

Thanks for your comment, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video, even if not all the theories were exactly to your liking. I totally get the argument that a third entity would rob Kris of much needed autonomy and characterization. It really says a lot about how a character who is mute to us and whose thoughts are never made clear to us can come alive. That's really a testament to Toby Fox's amazing way with characters that we can get so much from the clues and details interwoven into the gameplay and other characters' interactions. It's clear that Kris is a prankster, which clashes in a fun way with their isolation and desire to make friends. Kris is intelligent, thoughtful, observing, funny, and very flirtatious, which again clashes with what we can also observe of their isolated mindset and desire to run away from the fact that they are the sole human in Hometown and have a sucky family life. And these contradictions do feel like they lend themselves to a character who can switch between extremes and be even a little conniving like what we see at the end of both chapters. I personally subscribe to the third entity theory because we lack any information to properly explain the extreme differences in how Kris acts without the Player's soul. But the weird jerkiness even happens with the Player's Soul still in them. Whereas, other times that Kris acts on their own, there's nothing unnatural about their movements or behavior. I also like this theory because while Kris is intelligent, making them the mastermind of chapter 2's ending is a little bizarre. In Deltarune, you are playing in a world where free agency has been robbed from the people. Knowing that, and knowing what would should come next, like washing their hands (which is referenced a few times in chapter 2), would require for Kris to possess the knowledge that this is a game and to know how everything is unfolding. And that runs counter to Kris' covert operation in the same chapter to break our hold over them by working with Spamton. And yes, that sounds highly convoluted! Though I guess some would argue the same for the third entity theory. Haha! But there we have it. We'll see which if any of these theories is proven correct. Maybe I'm placing too much faith in chapter 3, but I feel like we're going to get carpet bombed with so many bombshells from Toby. And the scary thing is that it will just be the beginning, because there will still be four chapters left and there is still so much ground to cover! Or we could be kept in the dark about what's really up with Kris until chapters 6 and 7.

[@cloverlovania]

thank you. i genuinely got annoyed about the whole "oOoO ChAra OoO eViL" thing. ur description is definitely, CORRECT

[@cocoapup1998]

you just opened my eyes to the fact that kris pranked us

[@camillesharem]

@@cocoapup1998 Kris is a prankster. I expect more in the future!

[@DogDogGodFog]

Oh my god, yeah! I don't know why I never thought of the possibility of Gerson's writings being his own dark world adventures in coverup! Reminds me that i.e. Daring Do in MLP had a similar premise

[@CenturyGuard]

I feel like having 2 things controlling kris is too narratively complicated

[@camillesharem]

I agree! And it's one of the few things to help explain why it's taking Toby so long to crank out the next few chapters. Haha!

[@CenturyGuard]

@@camillesharem technically you could say that happened in Undertale but it wasn't really focused on

[@camillesharem]

@@CenturyGuard It could then be something that Toby wants to explore further in Deltarune. He's hinted that Undertale had a lot of the concepts that inspired Deltarune, but the story swing differently. Perhaps he's returning to explore this concept deeper. BUT! Whether he does or doesn't, I think it will play second or third fiddle to the main theme of friendship.

[@CenturyGuard]

@@camillesharem whatever it is I have trust in toby, he'll make it good

[@camillesharem]

@@CenturyGuard Same here! I'm so excited for the next couple of chapters! Especially with us going into a TV world. That's like my childhood dream!

[@thedarklord3724]

Here's something I just figured out when talking to the puzzle guys for the first time in chapter 1 they all are wearing beanies ralsri has 1 because he has 1 he has 1 life and that's in the dark world while Susie has 2 representing the normal world and the dark world while Kris has 3 one for the dark world one for the normal world and the third for the player in the real world

[@camillesharem]

Oh! That is a really cool observation! Toby is a sly fox hiding little tidbits like that in the open.

[@gregorydery]

What if the shadow crystals were mini dark fountains

[@camillesharem]

That's an interesting theory. We know so little about them, but if they are parts of a dark fountain or dark fountains in miniature, that would mean they could operate under the same rules, granting life and purpose to otherwise lifeless objects. That could maybe be why King's cloak had a life of its own and flew away in Chapter 1. It had been forged of dark crystals, just as Seam offers to do for us the more crystals we collect.

[@gregyoung9980]

I love your analysis here, I love the idea that Chara hijacked Gaster's experiment. One thought that I just had -- the game never does establish WHEN Chara hijacked the experiment after Gaster first kicked off his experiment, though we do know that Kris has been living in Home Town for awhile. So, perhaps Chara stole the vessel about halfway into the experiment? Forgive me if you already talked about this in the video , i'm kind of multitasking here.

[@camillesharem]

No, it's true! We don't know when the hijacking occurred. It's likely that it went down when right at the game's beginning when the Player takes control of Kris. I will say for the sake of argument that this could be countered by Noelle's observations of Kris becoming far more reserved and weird, but I think that's just their character. I think this is something that we'll definitely learn more about in likely Chapter 3, and then built up on in Chapter 5, if the atmosphere of the settings reveled by Toby are anything to go of off.

[@iamhoodsickle4589]

Dude, I was just thinking about the possibility of a second entity taking control over Kris and almost was alarmed when you said the same thing! Even that vessel being discard by somebody else got me as well in the beginning. I didn't even notice the sudden shift in dialogue until you pointed it out. Until the remaining five chapters get released, we may never truly know what the story has in store. I'm all for speculation, but if it conflicts with facts...I'd rather have consistency in stories than have retcons that don't reference its own lore.

[@camillesharem]

I agree. Speculation and theorizing are fun and all, but canon is always canon. Toby has already shown that he can make impressive stories, so even if it doesn't pan out the ways I elaborated on in this video, I'm certain it'll be great!

[@ZacharypjgStudios]

While listening to this I just thought of something insane, in the Dialog it says that “The remaining king put him and his strange son into power” the grammar in this sentence is very strange, but it could be interpreted as “the strange someone and their SON put king into power” this is just further evidence proving that Alvin and his father has been in the dark world, and we’re possibly the ones who set into motion the story of chapter 1’s dark world into motion

[@goodcobra2597]

Bad news toby just confirmed on Twitter that he cant put out any new deltarune chapters this year. Good news is that he has something special planned for the anniversary but he misspelled special idk know if that's intentional.

[@camillesharem]

Oh! I'll have to check out his announcement! I figured we wouldn't get any more Deltarune for at least a bit. I was thinking at earliest it would be sometime next year.

[@CloudMouth27]

The "special" misspelling is intentional because that's how it's spelled in Spamton's dialogue as well

[@solaris3251]

Knock knock, any body home?

[@MrWitchking21]

Yes! It's Kris with a knife!

[@TheSkyGuy77]

No. (Closes door) 😂

[@KEIXTH1908]

Damn I didn't know kermit was a deltarune fan

[@theoneandonlyZef]

I think that if chara or some other entity is controlling kris, the player is controlling chara/that entity. Because no evidence from undertale is given at all to support that you can break the player's control (I may be wrong tho) And all the times frisk moved without the players input I think have been confirmed or at least heavily implied to be chara moving frisk, and in this case chara would be moving frisk instead of us. The majority of this comment is supported by JaruJaruJ's ralsei video, which is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4augpJvrpmVmtk

[@mestronghandle]

You know I never hear anyone mention that if we are taking about a Knight on a chessboard then we could have at least 2 Knights. Light and dark,like a black and white chessboard…a Lightner knight and a darkener knight.

[@camillesharem]

Excellent point! And Kris is effectively a knight, through which we the players go through the game. Depending on our choices, we could help Kris be the white knight to the Dark Knight opposing the heroes. That's at least what immediately comes to mind when I read your comment.

[@mestronghandle]

@@camillesharem and it would be very Toby to make “Light and Dark” be morally relative to which side you are, like your side of the chessboard.

[@Witchyfoxboy]

chara isnt the bad guy that in genocide its the player- so idk what ppl taking abt when they say chara is someone to do something like that, to manipulate yea i can see it buy only ever with good intentions

[@camillesharem]

You can look up the information and background on Chara, furthermore what Asriel tells us of them. And then there's the genocide route ending and the way we no longer have a chance to offer mercy. Chara is a being who seeks to destroy everything, which is perfectly captured in the music Toby wrote for the character, too.

[@Witchyfoxboy]

@@camillesharem i mean yea but it only happens like that because and chara said that they were confused why they had been brought back but we gave them a purpose to get stronger and eliminate the enemy like wouldn't you go a bit crazy if you woke up after dying and say a random person killing all of your family and friends now i will say IF chara is the one controlling kris i dont think its to end the world i think its to try and have what they died trying to get yk like Asriel and monsters on the surface, now do i think another entity is controlling kris im not sure because for all we know the reasons kris can move by himself in like protecting people is because it doesn't go against the player as in its not bad but acting out as in slashing tires or opening dark world portals that i think requires to not be controlled by a player because we would try and stop them compared to saving a friend but idk for sure... no one but toby does

[@Witchyfoxboy]

@@camillesharem also losing the chance for mercy is like a punishment kinda how we the player has to press the button to kill Flowey chara waited and chara even makes a remark on multiple genocide runs that we are messed up and we are gonna get along great and i think that once again has something to do with us forcing chara because they cant leave us to watch their family die over and over again kinda like Stockholm syndrome (not saying its the same thing just making a comparison) where they hate it some much they cant handle the emotion and their mind breaks causing them to enjoy it in a last stich effort to protect itself (yes ik thats not the cause of Stockholm syndrome but it feels kinda similar because chara cant leave)

[@camillesharem]

@@Witchyfoxboy Here's all the collected info on Chara: undertale.fandom.com/wiki/Chara Though Toby wrote Chara's personality as ambiguous, their desire to destroy is clearly communicated. And if you try to resist the pull towards destruction, Chara retaliates for that. Death and destruction through the Player's Determination is what woke them up and the more you play into that, the more control they exert over YOU, not the other way around. By Asriel falling for Chara's schemes, he absorbed their Soul, which is important because Alphys' attempts to bring him back to life resulted in granting the amalgamation of Asriel and Chara the powers of Determination, which results in the ability to jump across timelines. And that is where the third entity theory really comes into play, because since Gastor can travel across the timelines to all-new worlds, characters like Chara and Asriel can as well. However, the lore of Undertale clearly stipulates that depending on the choices you make, Asriel either passes on in peace, continues to travel the timelines with Chara, or is completely supressed by Chara through the genocide route. But in all three instances, Chara's spirit or whatever it is still floating around and free to act. Which in turn means that if Gastor can travel to Deltarune and dink around there, Chara is perfectly capable of doing the same. And given all the lore on Chara (again, check the wiki), they have no good or altruistic reasons to go to another world.

[@cloverlovania]

​@@camillesharem i'm sorry, but just. no. no. no, none of this is right. who ever said they could "jump across timelines"? the fact that the characters are in deltarune is simply just an Alternate Universe. like toby CONSISTENTLY SAID, deltarune is NOT RELATED to undertale. gaster and chara are not confirmed to be in deltarune. DEFINITELY NOT chara. you could argue about gaster, i suppose, but NOT chara. the player's determination in undertale woke chara's body up. and if you believe chara is the narrator, they're even less at fault. YOU'RE at fault for the geno route. "by asriel falling for chara's schemes" there was no schemes. as they were dying, all they wanted to do was see golden flowers from the surface. chara isn't EVIL, NOR are they GOOD by the end of genocide. they're simply just Karma. they're morally gray. they are the one making YOU get punished for YOUR actions. "You want to go back to the world you destroyed. It was you who pushed everything to its edge. It was you who led the world to its destruction. But you cannot accept it." - chara they're blaming YOU, the PLAYER. chara only narrates some sections. chara's reasoning for "erasing the world and moving to the next" is uncertain. but they never killed anything. you did. when kris wakes up, they are KRIS. as seen in chapter 1, they simply went to get pie. they're mischevious, so obviously they would act "evil" WHILE THE PLAYER IS WATCHING, to make it seem like they're up to no good. kris slashed the tires so toriel would call the police (undyne). with the door open, undyne could enter easier. this means that kris now has their three most trusted people in the dark world. their mom, their friend who cannot be controlled/manipulated, and a police officer. they're trying to make sure that the player won't do anything like the snowgrave route, because kris - and by extension the player - has no control over these people. fini. ( also chara is only referred to via they/it pronouns. so they're not a "he". )

[@mushroomboi6828]

You can explain as to why kris slashed the cars tires and opened the door as them wanting to let the police find the dar world

[@camillesharem]

I am of the opinion that the door was left open in the hopes that Asgore will come to Toriel's rescue and slip into the Dark World through the open door. This would lend itself to the theory that Kris is actually the Knight and is the one pulling all the strings. However, it is far more likely a sinister trap than Toby's version of the Parent Trap. Haha! If my theory is correct, then the second entity (possibly Chara) is hoping to overwhelm Kris and Susie with all the conflicts and problems that will arise from Asgore and Toriel being stuck together in the Dark World. We already see how awkward things got in San's store when they ran into each other. Even Susie was left a little shaken and unsure of what to do. That will only be exaggerated further in the Dark World, especially since each experience so far from chapters 1and 2 are there to force the Lightners to confront their problems. But... are Toriel and Asgore really ready to address their issues? Chapter 3 is going to be nuts! And I think that the Knight is counting on all those familial problems to derail the heroes.

[@mimcris8481]

This video has made me really consider the idea of more than one entity, that means besides us, the Player, inhabiting Kris' body. 🤔

[@infinity3050]

Any opinions on what everyman is supposed to be? And what part he plays in the story? In my opinion, Everyman is much more mysterious in comparison to gaster because unlike gaster, we have absolutely no back story or lore or anything to determine what everyman is. One thing I have seen about it, is that it's everywhere - from Graffiti to one of jevil's attacks to one of the pop up ads in chapter 2. And, how can we forget the infamous reaper bird attack, the very origin of Everyman.

[@camillesharem]

I'll be honest, I'm at a loss. Everyman could be one of those persistent background details, just like Gaster and the Annoying Dog, who are all playing their own roles in the story. If Everyman is a greater cosmic character, he could be a kin to the cosmic players in the Stormlight Archive: powerful beings who are observing events, maybe interfering in some places, and pursuing their own goals that we don't know until they're ready to reveal them. Which makes Everyman a wonderful specter to torment us as we continue to learn more about the Dark World and its relationship to the Light World. Hopefully when chapters 3-5 drop, we'll have way more details and solid information to inform ourselves and either confirm or disprove our theories.

[@Dj-DeadBeatz]

I hope ralsei, lancer, and everyone don't go away in the end of chap 7 or imma cry for weeks!

[@camillesharem]

I really hope so, too. They're all so great!

[@mimcris8481]

The Kris and the Player reconciliation part is honestly what I'm most exciting about!!! 😁 Of course, that only happening if the player doesn't go for the genocide route. Kris wouldn't ever forgive the player if that's the case, I believe. 😅

[@camillesharem]

Yeah, the Weird and Genocide Routes aren't going to lead to any good reconciliation I think. It'll probably be another horrifying doozy of a revelation like back in Undertale when you realize what you've done but only too late.

[@convenientspeaker4835]

Starting the video and you already pulled out the largest theory that I had in my head and straight up inserted it into the video as if you're reading my mind, that Chara is the 3rd entity that posseses Kris. I don't know if you've seen the comment but I had explained the theory in your video named "Deltarune, A Writers Analysis" around a few months ago, might provide further evidence to your theory. I don't have much to add to the other parts of this video, as I agree with your statements. The part I didn't expect was at the idea that it was Chara who rips out the soul, because I was with the majority of the fandom who thinks that soul is required for Kris to be alive. I still kind of prefer the latter over your theory but it's still a really interesting take. Great video as always.

[@camillesharem]

Thanks for checking out the vid! Haha, it's always uncanny when someone says the exact same thing you've been thinking, especially when it's been your own private canon for so long. I went looking for your comment but I couldn't find anything... Feel free to share your thoughts again here when you get the chance!

[@convenientspeaker4835]

@@camillesharem That's strange. Mind if I copy-paste it here, then?

[@camillesharem]

@@convenientspeaker4835 Sure, go ahead!

[@convenientspeaker4835]

Alright, there you go: So, I've been thinking about what role Chara might play in the game, ever since you said that they might be involved in the game, and I think while I was looking for clues I think I found something really major. Keep in mind that this theory of mine relies on another theory that the majority of the fandom seems to agree with, so I'll lay that out first before mine so that this theory of mine sounds even remotely believeable. Kris is the narrator, and they are the ones offering the dialouge options theory Have you ever thought that the narrator in Deltarune feels a lot more like a person? Like for example checking the golden Berdly statue after Noelle says "This statue looks nice" will result in the narrator saying "This statue sucks", checking any type of boxes will result in the game saying "You became lost in the craftsmanship", or checking *THE THRONE OF GODS* in the right classroom, or the narrator saying "The tsundere of all plants" when checking the cactus in the house, or --and this is the most solid evidence-- checking the TV in both chapters. Checking the TV in chapter 1 will have the narrator saying something like "It's the TV. It seems to be dusty unplugged.", and checking in chapter 2 will result in them saying something like "(It's a TV. It seems to be plugged in.)". It's almost like it's trying to not say anything by using brackets. Many people assume this is Kris, and rightfully so. We are controlling them after all so it would make them the closest person to being the narrator. Additionally, it's also theorized that they can manipulate the dialouge options that are given to us. This is mostly evidenced through their interactions with Noelle. Noelle asking "Gosh. Do you need a dog threat or something?!" and the dialouge options being a simple "Yes" and a howling "Nooooooo", one of answers to Noelle's questions during the mice puzzles being just straight up the word "Unknown". And they also choose which way to deliver the dialouge options that we choose for them. For example, aswering Queen's question about whetver wanting to "Bosom" or "Perish" with the "Perish" option will have Susie commenting on how happy they sounded, or answering Susie's question on whether Kris is OK or not after the Spamton NEO fight being a strained "Yes" or a straight up yelling "No", also the gift scene where Kris' animation of giving the gift to Susie being twice the speed compared to the others, or the festival question resulting in Kris sounding confused upon picking Noelle or Ralsei. It seems that our control over is handled remotely and not directly. Now, I can finally begin explaining this theory. First, I'll prove Chara's existence in Deltarune. I had explained this to you before but I'm going to explain it again just in case someone other than you reads this. In both Undertale and Deltarune, there are these things called "Typer values" that determine the type of text, the playing sound, and the dialouge box of a talking character. And these values are used when a character is talking to you, and this is no different in the Goner Maker/Vessel Creation section. The one talking in the vessel creation section has a typer value of 666, and this value is a number associated with Gaster, even in Undertale. Additionally the theme playing uses Gaster's leitmotif while also using full capital letters, which is what Gaster also uses in the Entry Number 17. This is pretty much Gaster giving us a body, the interesting part however comes when the vessel is discarded. The theme which was used Gaster's leitmotif? Completely cut off. The void in the background? Completely replaced with plain black background. Gaster himself? *Also gone.* The moment the screen cuts to black the typer value of 666 immediately switches to 2. Gaster's plans pretty much get hijacked in front of us. And the one responsible? Well... I did not discover this myself so I'll just put a link leading to the evidence. suzyundertale.tumblr.com/post/180226681657/in-the-beginning-of-deltarune-as-you-may-know So yes, Chara is in Deltarune. But did all they do is just discard our vessel? No. In Deltarune, one of the main themes of the game is "Your choices do not matter.", no matter what you do, you always end up in the same place. Your choices may vary on the way, but it still ends in the same place. This is completely different compared to Undertale, where you were given all these options to either murder everyone or save everyone, there were different endings and even the slightest bit of your actions mattered to the end. ... well, not exactly. There IS a portion of the game where this does not apply. And that is? *Post-Genocide.* After Chara takes your soul away, you not only lose your SOUL but you also lose the ability of choice. You may save everyone, you may kill everyone, and you may do whatever you want along the way. But it ends the same. Chara ends up taking control over you, and then proceeds to murder everyone. What you do may vary, but it still ends the same way. Sounds familiar? Toby has also said that Deltarune was a game made for people who have completed Undertale, and when you look the fact that he wants people to see Deltarune as its own thing, this sounds like a really strange desicion. Additionally, the ending of the genocide route has Chara saying "Let us erase this world, and move onto the next.". You may interpet this as just plain resetting, but this doesn't seem to be case. Because after Chara murders you, one of the things they say is "You want to go back. You want to go back to the world that you destroyed.", seemingly implying to talk about the genocide route save file itself. But after they get our soul, they bring back the entire game itself and resets our entire save file. They were talking about the game itself when they said "this world", and not the save file. Which means that when they said "Let us erase this world, and move onto the next.", they meant that "We're done here, let's go to another universe and destroy that too." These few but massive hints all point to the same conclusion: We, the player, are an entity that has already completed the Genocide run of Undertale, and now find ourselves in Deltarune's universe because of Gaster's or Chara's shenanigans. So, since we have already did a genocide route, and so our soul is natrually in Chara's possesion, doesn't this mean they should have at least a small amount of influence over the story? Yes, that is correct. And guess what? They also do that in the most subtle way imaginable. And now here comes my favorite part of this theory. The Snowgrave route is basically the player forcing Kris and Noelle into freezing counless enemies over and over until it tramautizes them both, and yeah, we are the ones to blame here. But isn't something off here? Kris can easily change the tone of their voice to a funny or a sarcastic one to immediately make Noelle think they're joking, thus resulting in an automatic abortion of the route. But.. they aren't. Kris somehow loses the already small bit of control they had and now is being forced to tag along. And I'm saying this instead of saying something like "They're enjoying tramautizing Noelle, they're evil.", because Susie immediately notices something off about Kris after meeting up with them, and judging by Ralsei's additional comments, it's really safe to assume they looked really disturbed. Additionally, we get so assertive over Kris that Noelle even comments on how terrifying Kris' voice sounds like. Kris deffinetly isn't enjoying the Snowgrave run, but they aren't doing anything against it either, and in fact are offering up the assertive dialouge options for the run to progress so whats the deal here? It's Chara. I need you to take a look at the assertive dialouge we need to choose for the run to progress. "Proceed." "Get it." and additonally, the hospital dialouge in the light world, which is.. "Because it wasn't a dream." These are all assertive and simple. And considering that Kris doesn't enjoy the snowgrave route at all, and yet they can't do anything about it, I'm thinking that this is Chara forcing Kris to bend to our will. Without them, Kris would have at least have some bit of agency to stop us, but Chara is also so assertive, that they bent them to our will. Chara is the one that offers these assertive dialouge options. Chara is the one that takes away Kris' remaining agency to stop us. And Chara is the one that speaks in behalf of us, hence the "terrifying voice". If this is true then this would most certainly explain why Kris feels a lot more robotic instead of terrified in the Snowgrave run."

[@camillesharem]

@@convenientspeaker4835 Honestly, brilliant research! This good, convincing material that Chara is indeed involved. And I think their involvement is partly why this game spans so much content and such a long period of time. Toby is working with multiple themes and quests all at once. While the game's main focus is and will likely continue to be crafting meaningful friendships, this happier focus is counterbalanced by the themes of control and choice introduced in Undertale and now taken to their logical conclusions based on how we play Deltarune. Chara therefore has to be central to that part. I also have to say that again it impresses me how expressive Toby manages to make Kris despite the fact that we don't get them doing a whole lot on their own. But a careful reading of all their dialogue boxes communicate so much about who they are, and chapter 2 reveals a ton of who they are and how they act. It gives great character development to Kris and further highlights the interference from a character like Chara. Again, excellent work and thanks for this informative comment!

[@Pau.aguiza]

Sometimes i hate this fandom. Here we go again with blaming everything on Chara... ;-; Literally, they aren't even in the game. But you kmow what they ARE??? My comfort character. Pleaso do not speak of the child that way. They're not evil, they're misunderstood. TwT

[@goodcobra2597]

Here's a dark theory. we know the dark world is connected to the light. what amounts to a small computer room became a life and death battle for a cyberworld. Since we know that mundane objects in the light world are people in dark. I ask you to remember that kris's dad asgore has a flower shop with different flowers that resemble the colors of different human souls like in undertale. And which flower is at the top? The golden flower that looks like flowey and remember inanimate objects in the light world exist as characters in the dark!

[@camillesharem]

This is a great idea! Bring Flowey back into the story somehow. Perhaps some twisted version of how Asgore sees his son, or something like that. Also, there are a lot of thrown away flowers in the Dreemurr household. It'll be awkward if we see them pop up in Chapter 3. Well, awkward for Kris and Susie at any rate!

[@goodcobra2597]

@@camillesharem speaking of chapter 3. you know how every chapter so far focuses on two lightners to develop. Well toriel will be one but I know who the other will be. At the end of chapter 2 kris slashed toriels tires then toriel called the police. who do we know that's a police officer that's been itching for a fight and knows the dremurr family Undyne that's who!

[@camillesharem]

@@goodcobra2597 I have seen a ton of people saying that Undyne should be in Chapter 3. If she is one of the main Lightners, then it'll be cool. But I am curious if it might not be Asgore who arrives. My reasoning for that is because while Undyne is the town's chief of police, she is close with Asgore and this would be his old house where bad things are going down. There is a chance that she will call Asgore and invite him along or bring him along. A confrontation is brewing between Kris' parents. Upon entering Sans' shop we basically get a cut scene highlighting how awkward and bad their divorce has become. It's a conflict that needs to be addressed, though it likely won't be solved until far later in the game. Just like how Toby brought a lot of attention to Noelle at the end of Chapter 1, spotlighting Toriel and Asgore means that they will feature prominently in the upcoming chapter, one way or another. There was also a lot of emphasis on Catti and Jockington in Chapter 2, which makes me wonder that if the next chapter will be a nighttime adventure, if Toby isn't telegraphing for either later in the next chapter or is already paving the way for adventures and shenanigans with them in Chapter 4. Anyway, it's definitely either Undyne or Asgore who is falling into the Dark World and coming along for the ride!

[@trumblewumblehumble]

I think its pretty obviousy catty is the knight.

[@ART1984able]

Watching this again, I think your theory regarding Kris being possessed by a third entity DOES have certain value and could explain the opening of certain Dark Fountains....ie, The Abandoned Classroom, The Lab and Now the Dreemurr Living Room. I do not believe it is Chara but the Knight in spirit form possessing Lightners in order to open Dark Fountains. My little theory is that certain Lightners were possessed and created the Dark World...Susie created the Card Kingdom in Chapter 1, Noelle created the Cyber World in Chapter 2 and Kris in Chapter 3. Each Dark World reflects the will of it's creator--the King represents the mask Susie put on as a bully that everyone was afraid of but respected, the Queen represents Noelle's mother and her overbearing nature not to mention the Basement has plug monsters that Noelle was afraid of when she was young and now the TV World will represents Kris' will to an extent(the waiting room have separate sofas representing Asriel and Kris' side of the room). I believe the reason the Knight has not yet created a THIRD fountain is because he cannot...he needs another person to willingly make a fountain on their own(like Berdly almost did in Chapter 2).

[@camillesharem]

Oooo! I really like where this theory is going! The big thing to spin out further and see what evidence could support this is the nature of the Knight. Queen says that the Knight created the Cyber World's Dark Fountain, but if you are correct that Noelle created it, when would she have been possessed to do so? Or Susie? OR is Kris the poor one who is being possessed by the Knight to create these Dark Fountains and adventures according to what the kids in their class are going through?

[@ART1984able]

@@camillesharem My justification is that the person doing the possession makes the Lightner go into a sort of "Trance" before they open the fountain so they're unawares they actually did it so it won't easy to follow their trail. Susie fell asleep in the abandoned classroom the night before and wakes up late and makes the fountain unknowingly before ending up outside the classroom. Noelle makes the fountain after she puts Berdly"s books on the table in the library and we know what happens with Kris. If Susie confronts Kris about making the fountain, they may not remember doing it in game. Every time Kris does his heart rip, it's in a moment of relative weakness or the person being mentally unawares, distracted....being asleep in Chapter 1, catching them unawares while in Chapter 2. When Noelle does Snowgrave, we have to PUSH her to do by repeating the command several times. Only after that do her eyes go white and she does the spell. After that, we find her in a position that she was at the beginning of Chapter 2...on the ground, surrounded by the results of her handiwork ie power. Queen highlights Kris, Susie and Noelle specifically as examples of Lightners who can create fountains. Toby shows us Kris making a fountain which I think was him telling us "these are the people who have created fountains so far" without giving away who the true culprit is at the same time. Meanwhile, the Knight needs a third party to complete their work...someone like Berdly. I think that's where Noelle will come in. She'll give in to her weakness when her father dies and accidently open the third fountain bringing about the Roaring.

[@camillesharem]

@@ART1984able Ooooh! I like that explanation. That's a credible interpretation of the events, and could be the truth of what is going on in the story!

[@ART1984able]

@@camillesharem Thanks, I think it could be refined a bit after it re-reading it but it's essentially like when Ralsei "distracts us" by having us focus on Susie in Chapter 1/2 and then gets a chance to talk to Kris. Now that I think about it, the same thing happens in the Light World as in the Dark World--Kris rips out their heart in the bathroom, we're left in the bathroom cabinet as Kris climbs out the window and we hear Susie talking to Tori as a distraction while Kris does their thing. I just hope we actually SEE the Roaring instead of it being another distraction. lol

[@camillesharem]

@@ART1984able If we get to the Roaring, it will definitely be something we see. It's the end of all things! It'd be a devastating bait and switch to have that ending be an option or possibility and not get any more than Ralsei's ominous warning.

[@SproutMole]

I'm not sure about chara being in deltarune. Although it sounds good on paper I don't see how chara, from undertale, jumped interdimensionally into deltarune. It's not like chara is some kind of godlike creature like omega flowey or asriel dreemur were, chara is just a kid with lots of LV and EXP. And I don't see why chara is controlling Kris and even if chara IS in fact controlling Kris is it chara after genocide or after the pacifist? We know that the endings differ a lot where after you give up your soul and make the pacifist route chara still persists and kills everyone, and if you don't, the pacifist ending plays out normally. And I don't think we can choose which Chara it is because Toby Fox himself said that Undertale's ending stays the same as you left it, so it's endings can't somehow influence Deltarune directly because not every person did the genocide route even once. I liked the theories though, my favorite one is probably Gerson writing books of him going on dark world adventures. Great video!

[@camillesharem]

Thanks for the comment and the complement! Reading the plaque dedicated to Gerson and finding his works around town was a fun experience, and trying to puzzle out what is happening with Father Alvin led to the Gerson theory, which is also one of my favorites. The Chara theory is for now a place holder until we learn more about the other entity. The bizarre actions and the unnatural way Kris' body moves during the spooky parts of chapters 1 and 2 just scream to me that Kris can't be in control. The question then is WHO? I went with Chara based on their ability to pass across timelines no matter what you do in Undertale. Asriel's fate no matter how you play the game is made clear, but Chara's isn't. Granted, it might be running on thin ice, but I took that ambiguity and ran with it for that particular theory. And I doubt we'll get confirmation one way or the other until the end of chapter 5. I think Toby means to drop a nuclear bomb on us at the end of that chapter so we're all freaking out while waiting for chapters 6 and 7.

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

Just a reminder, Chara was half of a powerful demigod, before they & Asriel died. Their physical forms separated, leaving dust & a body... But, what of their shared soul? Especially since human souls can persist due to Determination? There's any number of imaginable states that Chara's consciousness might have become. Maybe a hollowed out soul with a missing core, which is capable of becoming filled with strong willpower, or intense bitterness (thus becoming a demon), or anything else that might still give them power beyond a normal human. Or maybe they kept a hold of a piece of Asriel's soul, or somehow hoarded some of the power they had gained while their mutual death was imminent. Because they clearly DID persist for centuries, somehow, between their physical death & Frisk's appearance in the Underground (who MIGHT actually be Chara reincarnated; I have some evidence of that, but trying to stay in topic). And Chara CAN become horrifyingly powerful, as we see in the G-Route. If Chara is sufficiently powered up by LOVE, with our guidance & effort, using the body we share with Chara by the end, they get so powerful they can, in terms of game canon, _literally destroy the world._ They also say they are the demon who comes when you call its name. (Which I wonder, could that connect them to at least SOME of the "demon text"? Google for that phrase plus "Undertale", & look for a Tumblr post by doge-w-a-bloge to see all the versions. Whatever they might mean, it's fascinating content not everyone knows about. Still vague, but interesting.) And "calling its name" may be us craving, or experiencing, that feeling we get when we work toward or achieve victory in a video game. Like Chara said: getting levels, EXP, gold, etc. That feeling follows us gamers into every game we play. "We'll be together forever," they confirm with us. The G-Route itself is simply the act of farming or grinding for levels. Usually seen as a totally normal act by gamers (especially prevalent in RPGs). Trying to level up early as much as possible, gain gold for more items, etc. Investing time & patience early in the game, in exchange for making future battles easier, thus being less likely to die to tough bosses. (UT simply decided to recontextualize it as the bloodbath it really is!) And remember, Chara also says "Let us erase this pointless world, & move on to the next." And well... Deltarune came next. So yeah, with all that in mind... Just sayin' I wouldn't rule this theory out. ;3 - And yeah, I know tons of us didn't actually do that route... But UT deals a lot with alternate dimensions & timelines. So it's not inconceivable that this particular Chara is from a specific timeline where that DID happen. Or, they truly are that subconscious piece of ourselves, always there, tempting us whether we've met them face-to-face or not. Or, even instead as this video suggests, they're also within & tempting Kris to take a specific route (whether deathful or not), to efficiently achieve goals one or both of them may share. They may be driving Kris to set up scenarios (Dark Fountains, slashed tires, other circumstances) that will more quickly power up Ralsei's kingdom (princedom?) with more Recruits, in order to face an anticipated future threat or challenge! :O Or, if they're instead again associated with the darker (Weird) Route, then they may think that Noelle is key to future victory, thus are trying to fast-track her getting stronger, rather than patiently waiting for her to do that on her own with the help of her friends. (We learned that, as Chara's previous human child self [confirmed further by the canon but unreleased Alarm Clock dialogue], they wanted to do things as efficiently as possible. Thus they did things like filling glasses of water to the very brim, so they'd maximize the amount they could drink in one trip, cutting down on trips to the sink. So that trait of theirs might have influenced what they became the "demon" or supernatural symbol of: Working harder first to work less later. Min-maxing. Cold hard efficiency.) Even if we didn't do UT's G-Route, a great many of us probably already did strengthen the Chara within ourselves while playing other video games. Killing enemies, getting stronger, maybe even level grinding, defeating the bosses... Then erasing the game to make room for the next (or simply putting away the cartridge or disc). So yeah... In some form, they could indeed be lurking here in Deltarune, to personify our own gaming instincts. Maybe not, but still, maybe. And it might even tie into the fact that Toby Fox mentioned several times that there will only be one ending. Because this is a meta video game, its own format might be a major plot point. Inevitably... all games eventually stop being played. Maybe Chara will symbolically erase it again... Or maybe it'll be The Roaring, or The Angel's Heaven. Maybe they'll fall into a sense of abandonment like the Card Kingdom (After all... Even the Lightners are Darkners to us real people here in [Heaven]! 😮 DR's Darkners are but dreams of our dreams...). And maybe, the true challenge of the characters will be to find a way to persist after we leave. Or coming to realize that we keep them alive in our hearts & fanworks. 🥲 Toby eventually added a bit more to inquiries about there only being one ending, when the question seemed to wonder if nothing we did would matter. He hinted, "There's something more important than reaching the end." I think we'll find that the journey is what matters the most. Because even though we always strive to reach the end of a video game, movie, or story... It's the path that we remember the most, if the gameplay, story, & characters are well created. And even if our choices may not keep the game/world from ending... We ourselves will be affected by the choices we made along the way, & the way they shaped our own experience by shaping that of the characters. We'll feel great if we found a way for Kris to be happy, for Noelle to become stronger (without violence), for Susie to feel loved & find joy (& hopefully help heal the secret bosses who have gone mad with pain). Or, we'll feel guilt yet intrigue as we push everyone through a gauntlet of pain & break the rules, stumbling through complex emotions & unpredictable scenarios. Our choices WILL matter... *_to us!_* And to the characters we're growing to love. How much we give in to our inner Chara, well, that's up to us to DETERMINE. 😉

[@camillesharem]

@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her This is a brilliant analysis and breakdown of both games' deeper lore. I especially love what you've written here at the end, that our choices will at least matter to us. Toby is honestly doing something incredible and special with Deltarune, and I can't wait to see what he has in store for us next!

[@paris9871]

rlly good video!!😊

[@camillesharem]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@sahilhossain8204]

Hmm yes nice dark Deltarune theories

[@starburstkitty]

chara is not evil.

[@goodcobra2597]

Regarding ralsei I honestly don't believe he's a villain. he's been far to helpful to the party and was instrumental in helping susie become a better person. That said he is definitely hiding a few smoking guns. 1: ralsei somehow knows he's a prince despite ruling over no one and yet he's in possession of a dark fountain. that allows all darkners live there unlike the other fountains. 2:We haven't heard anything about ralsei's parents. If he's a prince then his parents should be king and queen. yet no one mentions them or seems to recognize ralsei as a legitimate prince. 3: ralsei has knowledge of a prophecy that a human a monster and a darkner trying to save the world from Angel's heaven. the weird part is until he tells us no one else is aware of the prophecy. 4: Ralsei is the only one with a in depth knowledge of the consequences of two or more dark fountains existing at the same time. including the existence of creatures called titans. he had to explain to queen (the ruler of an entire dark realm) why upsetting the balance between light and dark is a bad idea. 5: after the gang defeat spamton. susie is alarmed by what happened and is worried about a visibly shaken kris. yet ralsei isn't fazed at all. though he does offer cake for later to kris. he then asks susie not to pry too much.

[@camillesharem]

That 5th point is actually one of the reasons why people think he's secretly a villain. But I agree, he isn't our enemy. I'm going to dive into why in an upcoming video. I just need to complete another playthrough so I can refresh some of my knowledge and experiences with his character.

[@goodcobra2597]

@@camillesharem yeah I'm pretty sure the 5th point was the inciting incident that got the ralsei theorists going. Cant wait for the ralsei video and the chapter 3 prediction video! As for the us and and chara fighting for control. we have 1 big advantage we can control kris as long as we want during the day since we're bonded to kris's soul Chara on the other hand only has a limited amount of time due needing the soul removed and she needs kris alive. So she needs to bring put it back in. chara also needs to make her moves without anyone noticing since she needs to do everything in secret. meaning chara can make few moves in a short amount of time while we can make many moves.

[@camillesharem]

@@goodcobra2597 I'm really hoping we get more incite into what's going on with Kris, though we probably won't get it until around Chapter 5. But I'm ready for that Chara reveal! And thanks, I hope I can do those upcoming videos real justice and make especially the prediction one plausible, because there are so many theories out there, but I'd like mine to rooted not in headcanon but what is legitimately possible given everything Toby's already presented in the first two chapters.

[@whiteeyebrowman1789]

The chara theory bothers me, because it absolutely paints chara as this all encompassing villain. When in undertale its shown that chara was mostly a fucked up kid, but not overtly evil. And definitley not toward monsters. Asgore knew that killing humans to break the barrier would restart the war, so he didnt do do it. And chara knew the same so they DID try to do it, but they knew aswell tjat with 7 human souls Asriel could be a god and humans wouldnt stand a chance. Its only due to asriels resistance that they couldnt kill anyone on the surface In genocide we see chara become evil, yeah. But were told that as you gain EXP and LOVE you become detatched, it becomes easier and easier ti hurt people. Along with the fact they lost their soul just as Flowey did so they werent as empathetic. So using chara as some world destroying monster for no reason seems insanely out of character for them, and more reaching to create some fanon big bad that you can blame anything on "because theyre evil, it doesnt have to make sense"

[@camillesharem]

Asriel explains that Chara was always "off," and that they had a severe hatred towards humans. If given the chance, Chara would wipe them out. That is made clear by Toby Fox. If you play the Genocide Route, that destructive will is turned on everything, including the monsters Chara came to care about (if we give Chara the benefit of the doubt). The extended lore and the soundtrack make it very clear, going the Genocide Route permanently scars the game and all resulting timelines as Chara is unleashed and plots the demise of all the characters, even to the destruction of the world. It's not just the Underground but everything that is wiped out. The player is responsible for those choices, but Chara happily goes along with it. I did my research before writing this up and recording the video. I know that there is a great love for Chara in the fanbase, but that does not erase the established canon and extended lore. Therefore, it can fit within what we know about Deltarune. But you are free to dismiss the theory. It's all speculation until proven false or correct within the game itself.

[@pustak7202]

i'm pretty Chara's pronounced like that becuase of the word "character", also being bilangual is a dumb excuse for pronouncing things wrong when you know how to pronounce them, and that's coming from a trilangual person. The theories are interesting btw

[@camillesharem]

To each person their own. My brother-in-law is fluent in four languages and still mispronounces stuff.

[@pustak7202]

@@camillesharem yea but i'm talking about pronouncing wrong on purpose. If you know the right pronounciation, why not change your wrong one?

[@camillesharem]

@@pustak7202 Is there a right way, though? I am serious here, because I have never heard a uniform way of pronouncing it, not among the hundreds of Undertale players I've directly spoken with. And each claims that theirs is correct. There are at least four major pronunciations. So, unlike Brandon Sanderson coming out and finally putting to rest how to pronounce Adolin, I don't think Toby is going to have his feathers ruffled by all the different pronunciations. He's more concerned with our fanfictions and fan art...

[@auramaster2068]

I don’t like this Chara interpretation it takes away a lot of the autonomy from Kris and the Player and undermines both of their choices.

[@camillesharem]

I can see where that fear would originate from. However, as we can observe throughout the first two chapters, even if Chara is present, Kris displays a lot of autonomy despite already being controlled by the Player, and the Player's choices have carry-over consequences. It was the same in Undertale too, as far as the Player's decisions went. Given the size of the game and the shared lore and mechanics between Deltarune and Undertale, I would not be surprised if Toby is going really deep and dark with the story he's telling now.

[@sahilhossain8204]

In one of your theories the ROARING knight should've been Oberon smog

[@tobysinbad]

A few times in this, you hype up what you’re *about* to say for so long I lost interest. I was interested in your theories and your voice is good, I just wish you’d say it a bit faster! I don’t mean to be overly critical, but your style of speaking might (in my opinion, not everyone will feel this way obvs!) be better suited to- or even trained for- radio or streaming, where you filibuster and fill any dead air. KZbin isn’t the same. Either through editing out these filler phrases, scripting some of your ideas prior to recording, or just being mindful of who your audience is (for example: if they’re fans enough to know the ”Gaster is behind EVERYTHING” meme, they don’t need you to point out that they walk like a zombie in the unskippable cutscenes) and respecting their time a bit more, you could be very very successful. But audience retention will probs suffer otherwise

[@camillesharem]

Thanks for the feedback! You're not the only one to point this out. A lot of it comes down to scripted videos and off-the-cuff recordings. Scripts are great to have, and in some cases very necessary, but they also eat up a ton of extra time and are exhausting to write well (especially when you have two or more books that you're working on at the same time!). Which is why a fair number of videos are more in the vein of off-the-cuff commentary. That being said, brevity is a skill I still need to work on. If you'd like to check us out in our podcast format, the links are in the description. And you'll get far more than just myself speaking. :)