5 Great Doctor Who Villains to NEVER Bring Back

[@tyrant-den884]

The most I want to see the Midnight Entity again: "Ooh, this place looks nice. Ever been to Midnight, Doctor?" "We are not going there."

[@nightfury7777]

Tyrant-Den that’s a shout

[@willmanthorpe8437]

Just Nopes away

[@chloet2586]

I think with that tho it would be the same thing where... you do it again, you then devalue it, it would be exaclty what happened with the angels. I love blink, its amazing, but i cant love the angels as an alien in the same way i did because the more episodes of them, the worse they got and it would be horrible if midnight was ruined in the same way.

[@tyrant-den884]

Chloe T but they don't do it again, that's the point.

[@chloet2586]

@@tyrant-den884 but you said you wanted them do it again...?

[@WidthTomJones]

The annoying thing about the Weeping Angels return is that they destroyed the whole thing of ‘The viewers count’ because you see them move and it annoys me.

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

Yeah, but the writers really dug themselves into an inescapable hole when they had a situation with Amy walking with her eyes closed. I kinda hated that entire story

[@o.r5371]

I think if we just had the Amy escaping part with her eyes closed without seeing the weeping angles when they move, that would be both amazing and terrifying

[@amelialikesfrogs5778]

I think BAD villains TO bring back would be a good video.

[@Jack-gs4fi]

Joel Mole Abzorbaloff, The Wire, The Gelph, the jagrafess

[@amelialikesfrogs5778]

My picks would be the teller ( or his species), the hath,tritovores(fly men from stingray dessert)vespiform and cybershades

[@mrflibble1259]

@@amelialikesfrogs5778 really? I liked the hath, cool creature design and I'd quite like to know how they came to be.

[@andrewlaporte5477]

@@joelmole3157 Personally I liked the slitheen episodes, but it could be because I'm not a classic who fan or I'm susceptible to Chibnal's writing style or just because I haven't seen the episodes in a while. I think the drawing thing from Fear Her would work much better as something like Medusa, except after you turn to stone she carves you into one of her old friends, brings you back to life, and prays her new toy will last longer than the old one. Too gruesome or silly? Maybe!

[@weescotspaul]

@Andrew Laporte I suspect you're misremembering something. Chibnall has never written anything invloving the Slitheen. He was responsible for reintroducing the Silurians to the modern series but had nothing to do with Slitheen, that was Russell T Davies.

[@katrinacampbell5989]

15:44 You can’t bring back the midnight entity because then you’re just repeating…

[@scouttyra]

You can't bring back the midnight entity because then you're just repeating...

[@katrinacampbell5989]

scouttyra oh I see what you did there

[@enahsg]

@@katrinacampbell5989 oh I see what you did there

[@jamman4356]

Alex oh I see what you did there

[@bizarrebunny5579]

Stop taking my voice stop it

[@urahara64360]

Man this video is making me nostalgic for the Tennant years

[@ingonyama70]

same T_T He was MY Doctor (and is now my rich duck uncle)

[@bamb1etta_basterb1ne]

Lol

[@MsPatdfanatic]

same

[@fudgewendigo]

@Ecc12:13 Before you complain like a wimping Karen, go on Google and see how to spell Tennant please. Thank you!

[@MovieMagic515]

@Ecc12:13 Tenner? I assume you're a newer fan who never bothered to watch his run because it's less 'mainstream' It's Tennant and there's a reason he's overwhelmingly considered the best Doctor and Series 4 was the most watched.

[@Lil-Dragon]

I'm just glad its impossible to bring back the empty children. I was a child when I saw them and can occasionally still get a nightmare for those little terrors. Its that bad an old gas mask can make put me on edge.

[@aidanb1888]

Same

[@ingonyama70]

Oh, that is *brilliant*. I'm going to have nightmares just from the mental image.

[@i_think]

@@TheManInBlueFlames omg I really want this to happen now. That would be terrifying.

[@kailakruger7685]

Mooommmmy are you my mommy

[@xx_b4rr3l_xx]

What did you do to Snoke just a bunch of guys wearing bird masks with candy stuffed up their noses would give anything nightmares

[@Ben-vf5gk]

I agree with the Midnight Entity. You demystify that thing and what do we get? An annoying thing that just imitates you

[@jamiecarruthers60]

I do agree but at the same time the really nerdy side of me reaaaaaaaly wants to know

[@Ben-vf5gk]

Resist! Resist the temptation! You nerdy side shall only be met with extreme disappointment!

[@lordinquisitorsec7532]

Ooh an Eldritch Abomination on Midnight. Brilliant, only one catch. How could it survive.

[@chanceneck8072]

I still feel that the whole Bill/Heather thing was a Waters of Mars combined with the Midnight Entity thing, that just evolved. And I will strongly fight for that opinion!

[@ese.amador]

A weird fan theory I have is that the midnight entity is the omega, that is only based on the fact that I know the omega no longer has a physical body. I've not seen classic who though

[@XNicki13]

I looved the Angels but man they took it waaaaaaaayy too far with the Angels take Manhattan...I mean the Statue of Liberty...really...REALLY?

[@lamont8789]

Nicole Turner I think they put the Statue of Liberty in there to be kind of funny.

[@IG7799-c4u]

Yeah, that was Doctor Who being a little too silly, which happens lol.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

I mean, they took it too far when they dropped the best detail in their second appearance, how they "kill you nicely".

[@TheWindowBat]

It could have been implied, like Doctor Who does with a lot of things. That would have been much better than just showing it

[@joshuagraham5750]

Nicole Turner I actually enjoyed it, it was a smart way of disposing the best companions of the modern era.

[@beterbomen]

I think the Vashda Nerada (man, how do you write that?) could be brought back, actually, but only in one way. They have to be a secondary antagonist. The Vashda Nerada are an entity, not really a character, so they could work as a constant threat that plays out as the Doctor and their Companions deal with something greater, some more primary threat. This even somewhat happened in the story they were introduced in. Sure, the shadows were creepy, but it was not the main mystery of the story. That honor fell to the question of where the people in the library had disappeared to, and who this little girl we occasionally saw was. The shadows were just a thing that hunted them, and if you brought that back while having another story happen in the foreground, I don't think it's all that difficult to bring them back.

[@maskedmagician5620]

It was actually brought back for an audio story lol

[@julians552]

Michael Pruden two stories , one with the fourth Doctor and one with the eighth Doctor and the Time War

[@Nickman826]

@@maskedmagician5620 That 4th doctor story was so bleak in the best way possible

[@borjankosarac3645]

You were close: it's spelled Vash-TA NA-ra-da.

[@memester4079]

it worked with the doctor who game!

[@oliverl.5834]

I think they should give the Daleks a break for some time.

[@vdesatch6273]

They are.

[@harpertayback8663]

Well they won't be back really this season. They have stated before that they have to use them in some capacity every year, however I don't know the exact details. Either they re-worked the contract or they literally just have to appear in one scene or something. Maybe an empty dalek casing in UNIT storage or something or a flashback. No idea.

[@oliverl.5834]

Yeah. Or like the did with Seven for example. Three Seasons and only one Dalek-story (or Cybermen). It all Comes down to "how can we miss you if you don't go away for a while". Especially after Moffat fucked them up.

[@Jsssddfgffghshdhdhusjsjd]

Ikr!

[@acesongbird]

I honestly don’t think they should bring the Daleks back ever

[@gingergoddess8953]

I have an idea for a Doctor Who video: Top ten one-off characters who died for The Doctor. Rank them based on how memorable their character was and how intense/important their sacrifice was, and they have to be a single-episode character so companions don't count. Yeah it's morbid but it's also Halloween season so death makes sense to talk about.

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

Initially, I thought FANTASTIC LIST, but I don't think there's really as many as you think to make a list. Jabe, from The End of The World, and Astrid from Voyage From the Damned, but I can't think of anymore. Father Octavian was captured by an Angel, Lynda with a y was found/killed by Daleks, Clive killed by the Autons...

[@gingergoddess8953]

Well, there's Jenni from the Gamma Forests in Good Man Goes to War, the team minus River from Silence in the Library, you could argue that even though his parallel universe form came back: Pete from Our World, that oracle lady from Bad Wolf, the unnamed flight attendant from Midnight, the reporter and the President from The Sound of Drums. And if you loosen the criteria to be any non-companion who sacrificed for The Doctor, that opens up Harriet Jones, Lucy Saxon (attempted), you could even make a case for John Smith and Donna's World Donna. I'm sure there are more from 12's era but I haven't re-watched those episodes yet.

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

I'm picking up what you're putting down... but I don't think they all sacrificed themselves for The Doctor. And maybe I'm taking it too literally as The Doctor specifically. The Hostess in Midnight. Yes. She was awesome. But Pete in our world, he sacrificed himself for Rose. Did you mean Lorna, from a Good Man Goes to War? I'd have to rewatch it but it felt like she sacrificed more for Amy and River than The Doctor. Harriet Jones was always for the people of Britain. Maybe characters who self sacrificed in Doctor Who, but not necessarily for The Doctor. I think this would be amazing.

[@gingergoddess8953]

Lorna! That was her name. Sorry, there's so many Jennys in DW canon I can't even keep them straight when they aren't named Jenny. Blarg. And yeah the tricky part would be coming up with the criteria for the list. I think Lorna died for The Doctor's cause in the end, because she was looking for him. Maybe the list could be 'People who Sacrificed Themselves in DW' because that could include any character who knowingly went into battle or conflict on The Doctor's side or anyone who made a last-minute choice to save The Doctor himself when the situation was otherwise impossible and ended up dying for it, and the only criteria beyond that is that they weren't companions. We could have Lynda, The Hostess, Jabe, Lorna, The Team from Silence in the Library, Harriet Jones, Pete from Our World, (arguably) Donna's World Donna, Astrid, etc.

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

@@gingergoddess8953 then you'd have to take out Pete from our world because The Doctor was already dead. He sacrificed himself so Rose wouldn't be killed too. The Team from Silence in the Library didn't join the fight, imo. They just landed in the same doomed place The Doctor did and all died. The only sacrifice was River. Lynda said she didn't want to be a part of things and just wanted to go home so the Doctor left her where he thought she'd be safe. The Daleks just found another way to get in and kill her. The rest, Lorna, Jabe, Astrid, The Hostess, Harriet Jones, even Donna-2 would work. I'm digging it. 😊

[@axepuff411]

How to bring back the Vashta nerada: Doctor and Companion are facing some sort of hostile entity. The doctor notices some strange things in the surroundings (bones and such) insists on holding onto the companion's hand/not take his eyes off companion for the entire time and only taking brightly lit routes, not dark ones. All the while other plots happen to distract the viewer and companion from the doctor acting strange (which, to be fair, the doctor is always strange). Doctor always insists that they can't hide, they have to face the adversary head on and reason with it. Near the end they do confront the enemy, and the doctor says "I'm sorry. I didn't want it to end this way. I was trying to save you." The enemy has two shadows. The enemy is consumed. It would be good if it took place in an out-of-place location for the vashta nerada again, like on a space ship. Dunno how they got there but damn they are starving! No meat in space. ...anyway that's the only way (or something similar) they could be brought back. Not as the primary antagonist, but a secondary threat.

[@spencerreynolds0617]

Axe Puff they came back in an episode in a Doctor Who game called “Doctor Who Adventure Games” it sounds shoddy but oh my god is it good

[@semiautmatictrapdr7965]

I love how all these were Tennant's era just proves he had some of the best episodes ever

[@yogisie]

To me, the perfect one-off villain that shouldn't come back is The Dream Lord from Amy's Choice. I love Toby Jones in that episode. I think to bring him/her (Now Dream Lady?) back would be redundant.

[@kelanbaron7485]

the thing is that the dream lord thing was already done in old who......it was called "the valeyard"!

[@yogisie]

@@kelanbaron7485 except that the Valeyard is a real incarnation of the Doctor, while the Dream Lord is from the Doctor's mind.

[@edadankmemes]

yogisie speaking of which, is the Valeyard now canon or what?

[@yogisie]

Edwin Nah Since the story was on television, the Valeyard is canon.

[@cjermevpg6372]

Not only that, but since the Valeyard was supposed to be from between the doctor's twelfth and final incarnations, he could still appear.

[@redpotter27]

I've never really considered the possibility of bringing the Vashta Nerada back but as you were talking I started thinking about how the Vashta Nerada's motivation to protect their territory can be manipulated by another separate villain who, for example, might use their forest to create paper holiday decorations and distribute them throughout either a historical or modern London. The Doctor shows up, people are dying from mysterious causes, he figures out the missing link, the Mastermind is revealed.

[@M-E_123]

5. I'd like to see them try to tie the Flood into the Ice Warriors more - like a colony of Ice Warriors on another planet who accidentally take the contamination with them - I think this would add a nice twist to an Ice Warriors story allowing it to be something a bit different to what we usually get from them. 4. Agree with the Family of Blood - there's potential for an interesting follow up story but you'd have to absolutely nail it to not be disappointing to a large number of people - probably better to leave them alone. 3. Agree with Vashta Narada - you can't really evolve their story because of what they are. 2. The Beast - I think bringing him back could work in a similar way to the first Omega story (trapped inside a Black Hole and trying to get out) - but I don't see any value to be gained from doing it. 1. Nightmare entity - agree that it works because of the mystery surrounding it - add in more detail and you loose a large part of the impact it had.

[@ramblesrandom]

I really want an episode with the ice warriors and flood the more I think about it

[@lelandgaunt6215]

The Flood could work on a spaceship - one that has taken on board new water supplies and flown off not realising what's in the water tanks. The four members of the Family of Blood are best never returning (great characters, but locked into the story ending). However, they are only some members of a species - the Doctor could encounter other members of that species running about hijacking bodies to extend their lifespans.

[@toni7501]

I am so glad The Midnight Entity made it on your list! That episode is so scary because no one knows who it is or what it wants, if it's just trying to learn and live, or if it has more nefarious goals. And the fact that the Doctor can't "beat" whatever it is makes it that much more scary. I also think that the way the humans behaved in this episode really allowed for an interesting discussion about some of the darker and more violent aspects of humanity and what happens in certain intense situations where you're willing to jump on the bandwagon or are more concerned with being right instead of listening to reason. I also feel like this episode was an incredibly important moment in the Doctor's life (at least as far as the modern episodes) where it seemed like this was truly the first time human beings really let him down instead of being constantly sacrificial or creative or even idiotic. He was always so willing to help and how they treated him seemed to really leave its own scars.

[@NayvieNoir]

Ahh, the Family of Blood. After watching that episode my best friend and I used to do this thing where we’d lock eyes with each other, make our eyes go really wide and smile creepily, and then do a huge sniff through our noses.

[@kellygingrich4302]

For the vashda narada, I believe the Doctor said that they were on many planets, including Earth, which is why sometimes people go missing and are never found. I agree that as a hive mind there's a limit in stories to tell with them as a villain, but similar to silence in the library, they could be played more as a plot point for an episode that explores humanity more. Similar to what happens in their two partner, and even what happens in Midnight, it's how the humans react. Those episodes that bring the Doctor's experience and wisdom and outsider perspective to very grounded, human things are usually so brilliant.

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

Inspired by comment of GingerGoddess89, a good Doctor Who list would be The Best One-Off Characters The Doctor Couldn't Save My initial unranked list would include Jabe- Ended of the World Banacafalata- Voyage of the Damned Abigail- Christmas Carole Father Octavian- Time of the Angels/ Flesh and Stone Gwenyth- The Unquiet Dead Sky- Midnight

[@WidthTomJones]

For Midnight, I’d say the hostess

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

@@WidthTomJones Initially I thought of The Hostess too, but she wasn't perceived by The Doctor to be in danger. The entity was after Sky. That is who he was trying to save. The entity didn't seem like it was going to attack anyone else once it went from Sky to The Doctor. It was trying to find a suitable host and voice to get back to civilization. Think Ex Machina. The hostess happened to sacrificed herself to save The Doctor once she realized what was going on, but she would have been fine if she didn't.

[@WidthTomJones]

Human MetaCrisis Ok. I misinterpreted what you said. Sorry. Good point.

[@TheSkully343]

I'm sensing a severe lack of Lynda from Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways.

[@humanmetacrisis9084]

@@TheSkully343 I didn't write out my entire list, hence the 'would include'. I was giving a few ideas to show what I meant. You are more than welcome to write a list of your own that includes Lynda since it's such a concern

[@maxwaltham5853]

On the subject of a hungry shadow boys (not even trying to spell it) story, I quite like the idea of a scenario where the doctor is present when a huge swarm forms and attacks a populated area The main idea I like is just the horror that happens when the massive swarm is unleashed on an unprepared populace. Just a perfectly normal day and then people are vanishing left and right and those that survive find they've picked up an extra shadow and have no idea what's going on.

[@greyladybast]

The Empty Child. There is no way to possibly repeat that in a creative and effective way.

[@Ower8x]

According to the set up ... the Vashta Nerada are present on most planet even Earth but normally the number is small and they are in remote locations .... what they could do is have them be a obstacle for a story ... during which the doctor is separated from companions and they end up in a location where the Vashta are and they have to work on what ever they are and work around the Vashta as well....

[@TheCagedCorvid]

Or we could have them in a shrinking patch of rainforest and have the doctor actually helping them, turn it on its head a bit.

[@Ower8x]

@@TheCagedCorvid there are options how you could use them ... but the current writers of the show do not have the competence to pull it off ... so ultimately I and up agreeing with the video premise at this point, dont touch them, leave them as they are.

[@zarabada6125]

Just pointing out that one of the best Classic stories was a prequel where you already knew the outcome; Genesis of the Daleks. Not only was it a positive treatment of the recurring villain (Daleks) but it also introduced another one (Davros). A prequel has great potential to go badly but if it is done right the result can be golden.

[@lucideandre]

Now, I’ve got one that is not any of the things you asked for. A villain that has become recurring that I’d like to see again. The weeping angels. We’ve seen them over and over, and what they do is all pretty well established, and even getting old. But I think there could be a story unlike the others. Something that tells us where they came from, what they really are, or were, aeons ago. But not just an origin story for the sake of origin story. Something tragic and unexpected, that tugs at our emotions. Maybe to see something great become something so terrible, and the Doctor (and, by default, the audience) powerless to stop it, and maybe even responsible, but maybe also unwillingly responsible. Not an episode that would make them scary again, but something sad. Something with wich we would look back at the other Angel episodes and feel deeply troubled, even sad, knowing what and where they came from, and sorry, for the Angels themselves.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

14:48 In my opinion, that’s how you do it well. You DON’T explain how it came back. That helps keep it inexplicable. That’s why it’s so good in the first place. To me, you make the Midnight entity work by making a completely different story with something that we can’t explain the behaviors/abilities of. It can’t be sensed, it can’t be deduced, it’s just another story with an inexplicable thing. Because the Midnight entity, in its own story, was evolving. It paralyzed the Doctor while it took up a host-meaning it held control over two bodies at once. This new story has something inexplicable that’s different. And this story taps into a completely different social anxiety. If fans think it might be the Midnight Entity, they can theorize that. If they don’t, it can be perceived as something else completely. And, to me, that is more scary. There’s just this one thing that the Doctor can’t explain and couldn’t defeat on his own. Now? It either really can’t be defeated, or there isn’t just one thing the Doctor can’t explain or defeat. Both of those options are pants-shitting to me. To me, the Midnight entity might be the best recurring antagonist. Because it isn’t one. Any time the viewer thinks they might be seeing it, they might be wrong or they might be right and no one will ever really know. And we won’t know whether or not the Doctor will save anyone. Including theirself. In essence, there’s just these events in the Doctor Who universe that you’d see the aftermath of in newspaper clippings-that even the Doctor can’t figure out. He was just unlucky enough to have been in one of them that one time. And it would drive the Doctor crazy. Because they’d never be able to figure it out. Talk about a vast uncaring universe.

[@AstraIVagabond]

Oh... That's a very good perspective on it. I agreed on the Midnight entity initially; but it's clear I didn't think it through as far as you. (And really, _any_ villain can possibly be brought back with a good enough story to match - but you've clarified how that could work in this case.) I was thinking that I wouldn't want _the_ Midnight entity to come back since it's a creature that's evidently endemic to just this one diamond planet and it would be so contrived to return to it specifically so we could face it again - but who really knows where it came from? Or how many like it there are? If you're conceiving it as one of many entities whose mere uniting factor is that they are unexplained, well - I don't think that's playing by the original rules, technically, but it's an interesting gateway. By this definition, the Listen entity would be another one we have already encountered, right? Might have encountered. Have not encountered. Don't be afraid of the dark.

[@NimanWielder01]

Gotta' say, I concur. The way it attacked was distinctive, but who's to say that's the only way it could attack? Perhaps it just did that in order to turn the people against the Doctor. An episode that does something similar and then drops a hint at the end could earn a few bonus points from me. Especially if it's dubious whether the Doctor defeated it or if it just decided to have mercy.

[@dracorim6370]

With the Flood prequel that could be an interesting Doctor-lite episode where we get to see more of the Ice Warrior culture and have a bunch of Ice Warriors who have to figure out what's going on with the Flood before trapping it in the ice. Though the focus shouldn't be on the Flood itself and more just it's affect on the Ice Warriors. We don't need to learn new things about the Flood just see how it affects a civilisation.

[@jordon2074]

What about Listen? The Doctor gets no real answer as to the kid in the sheet. (If it was a kid in a sheet)

[@ArlanKels]

There was definitely something there, but that something was not malicious. There are also stories from out of that area that deal with prankster spirits and mischievous imps throughout history. So it'd be pretty easy to do some sort of story that deals with "fairies" or some such, that the Doctor just scoffs at because those are just that..stories...but then they're for real.

[@thatchrisguy188]

While I agree with your points on the Vashta Nerada (and all of these villains, to be honest) I think there is potential to use them if they're not the main villain of the piece, perhaps with another villain trying to do something suitably nefarious with them or agitating what would otherwise be a relatively harmless hive of them.

[@TheCagedCorvid]

Rainforest episode. Humans are the villains. Done lol

[@novaiscool1]

The Vashta Narada need to be treated like a natural disaster situation. Best idea I can think of is a situation where the doctor has to save a crashed ship and its crew from a planet before the sun sets and the planet is completely dark. Maybe it starts out as a minor thing something that none of us think is going to be a big adventure and then the hammer drops and it becomes a race against the clock.

[@r0kus]

I could imagine a good Vashta Nerada (VN) story. The Doctor needs to reference information from The Library. To accomplish this, he has to negotiate with the VN to allow it and possibly assist him. In return though, they will want something he will be honor bound to do. They would not be antagonists or villains, although it is likely someone does something stupid and dies.

[@julieeverett7442]

nice idea

[@rememberme3619]

How about making a video that talks about every Doctor’s first episode (classic and modern)? This could be done with or without 13’s first episode. Here’s a list of the episodes, for those curious; 1: An Unearthly Child (you could do this, but it isn’t technically a post-regeneration story) 2. The Power of the Daleks 3. Spearhead from Space 4. Robot 5. Castrovalva 6. The Twin Dilemma 7. Time and the Rani 8. The Movie 9. Rose (see my notes for An Unearthly Child) 10. The Christmas Invasion 11. The Eleventh Hour 12. Deep Breath 13. The Woman Who Fell to Earth (If you decide to do this type of video after the episode has come out)

[@mrflibble1259]

Wow looking at this list, I hadn't realised how few good post regeneration stories there are

[@Cruithneach]

It's certainly an intriguing and stimulating idea, but it probably won't be long before someone points out a certain appearance in The Day of the Doctor

[@TheWeepingDalek]

and of course the other end of the scale. look at every doctor's last episode. 1. tenth planet 2, war games 3 planet of the spiders 4. logopolis 5. caves of androzani 6. i guess The Ultimate Foe 7. the tv movie. 8. night of the doctor war. the day of the doctor 9. parting of the ways 10 end of time 11. time of the doctor 12 twice upon in time.

[@thegreatsaxtonian]

Weaponise the Vashta Nerada, some evil corporation wants to use the Vashta Nerada as a weapon, and The Doctor has to fight/save the Vashta Nerada who just wants to be left alone

[@danielblack4815]

I think the dream lord was a great villain that shouldn’t be brought back. He’s just so creepy as he is

[@benw4409]

The Dream Lord would be awesome to see return. As good as Toby Jones was it would be nice to have an actor who is a contrast to Jodie Whittaker if the character returns.

[@zuzannatyra4504]

BTW, I want the Valeyard back. Either as the meta-crisis (the regeneration order would be kinda off tho) or an effect of an experiment on reg energy on tranzalore or any future doctor's self.

[@quinnsinclair7028]

Well the Dream Lord was effectively a dark reflection of the Doctor. We’ve seen that concept played out in a number of ways and it is usually very effective. While they couldn’t duplicate the psychic pollen that creates the Dream Lord they could ring back his core concept and maybe even his actor in another way. I was always of the opinion that the Town called Christmas episode on Trenzalore was a false memory 11 creates because he was ashamed of some really nasty experiments he did to get a new regeneration cycle. A byproduct of those experiments was the Valeyard and it would explain why 12 was kind of fucked up for awhile.

[@IG7799-c4u]

The Dreamlord is essentially the same as the Valeyard, who I would love to see a return of.

[@AstraIVagabond]

+Quinn Sinclair Agreed! Bringing back the psychic pollen itself would be silly (in a bad way); making the universe smaller and all that. But the concept of the Dream Lord, a subconscious manifestation of the Doctor's darkness, is a far more universal idea that could return through other means (even continuing to call itself the Dream Lord after the reveal because, hey - it's in _their_ subconscious!) and would be great to see return if they could make it _close_ to as amazing as it was in Amy's Choice. That is... quite the headcanon. I don't agree with you on it in particular; but I've also had rather mixed feelings on the way Eleven's life developed in The Time of the Doctor. (In an on-and-off headcanon of mine, he actually succeeded in escaping Trenzalore without his TARDIS multiple times and spent combined centuries in various places outside of it - once, in his older years, with the alias of Bill Nye on Earth - but he always kept coming back between his original landing and his last meeting with Clara because he couldn't leave them forever and time would not permit him to deal with the deadlock matter safely from any other angle.) There's another fun one that I had, though, which yours reminds me of, that all the villains played in other settings by the new Who Doctor's actors - Malekith, Skynet and Kilgrave - are actually those incarnations of the Doctor at particularly dark times in their lives. (Because they seemed unlikely to be unfailingly moral heroes all the time - and Who knows all the hatred they get from others and themself isn't justified just by the Last Great Time War anymore. :P)

[@scaper8]

I think bringing back the people or species of the Family of Blood could tell an interesting stroy. It would take some good writing, but I wouldn't count it impossible. The Vasta Narada, are specifically said to be _everywhere._ Have an adventure somewhere else, mabey even with them as a threat but not the villain. The rest, I more or less agree. Occasional references, or, maybe, something _similar_ but not the same or of the same species might work, but I don't think having them back would be good.

[@augustus4047]

I would guess that top of the list for Classic Who is Sutekh. Pyramids of Mars is a feature of the best Doctor Who stories ever and with good reason but it's so self contained that no attempt to reprise the central villain could ever work. In fact as The Doctor was so apparently overmatched by the antagonist and so narrowly averted total disaster any second story would only detract from the first

[@TheCagedCorvid]

Dear sir, you have been proven correct. 😒

[@paindepices4939]

The Vashta Nerada and The Midnight Entity are my top 2. Like you; I don't want to know what was that thing in Midnight because there's no better way to end a creepy story than with an unresolved mystery 😁

[@friday6448]

I love how first all of these are tennant villians, and all of these were custom-made for that specific story

[@Kissfan96dr]

one of the great things about Doctor going throughout all space and time is there is little need to bring back old villains. Only one I'd like to see return (that already isn't reoccurring) is the Black Guardian.

[@julieeverett7442]

all three guardians but yes the black guardian, Id like to see the Osirians

[@RosesTeaAndASD]

For me, the scariest thing about the vashta narada was the skulls in the space suits talking with the voices of the person they'd killed. Something invisible lurking in shadows that leaves a only a skeleton (in under a minute) would be impossible unless somehow there was another library with all the books in the universe full of them. The Doctor said they exist on heaps of planets in small amounts and mentioned they eat roadkill - so we would not have a very dramatic storyline there lol The shadows would not be creepy at all if no one on Earth supposedly even notices their existance. What about going to the now empty library again to download a backup copy of River Song if a need arose? There's one idea. Not a great one given that she's appeared a few times away from the library anyway.

[@sirnoncington8849]

Has anyone else noticed that all these villains were with David Tennant? This does prove why he is one of the most popular Doctors.

[@declansargent7813]

awesome video your soo great at explaining your ideas and opinions in ways we understand them and understand why they are great keep it up have a wonderful day

[@sirjedisentinel]

A while ago, Big Finish did a box set called "Classic Doctors, New Monsters." In two of the stories, two different Doctors faced the Vashta Nerada, and they were different stories to the library two-parter. So I do feel there is some story potential. However, the origin story for the Vashta Nerada was the same (forest planet that was torn down and built over). And that's why I don't want them to come back: to effectively antagonize them, you essentially have to keep re-creating the same conditions.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I tend to give a pass to Big Finish because being a purely audio medium means that it doesn’t feel as repetitive because the visuals are recycled.

[@sirjedisentinel]

Fair enough. I was mainly just using it as an example to help make my point.

[@julieeverett7442]

the doctor did say they were found on a billion billion worlds, anywhere there is a shadow they COULD be

[@artemiswolf4508]

I want a lot of this villains to come back in one special, and the special is about the Doctor trying to survive while unraveling the mystery of what brought them there. And at the end it is reveal that it was the Dream Lord all along, now that’s a villain that needs to come back. I think this would be perfect because a lot of this villains actually hunt the Doctor.

[@ingonyama70]

The Dream Lord's final imaginary incarnation would be the Beast, and that would push the Doctor's credibility past the breaking point into "OK, now you'v overplayed your hand".

[@artemiswolf4508]

Curt Clark Why would it be the beast? Also if you think THAT would be beyond credible, you have not being watching Doctor Who long enough

[@karkatvantas9557]

But... the Dream Lord is the Doctor?

[@cicilys6944]

This video was released on my birthday! Yay! And it's a video that is very thoughtful and entertaining. Thanks for that! You do make a good point with the Vashta Nerada - they do seem to have the one gimmick that can't be expanded on.

[@gamelikers]

Well, in silence in the library, the doctor mentioned that there are some of the vashta nerada on earth, the writers could toy with that idea.

[@ZedKingsley]

If they bring back the flood, hopefully they bring in Master Chief. He seems more equipped to dealing with it

[@japi4669]

Wait What????

[@arcadeassassin7176]

@@japi4669 master chief is the main character in halo and is frequently seen fighting an alien race called the flood.

[@MaxFarquhar01]

I love how these are all david tenant villains, shows a lot about how good his run was.

[@TheCrippledEgg]

I honestly wish they didn’t bring back the Weeping Angels.

[@mrflibble1259]

Chibnal has confirmed that as long as he's showrunner, they ain't coming back. So that's a good 3 or 4 years without them

[@williansouza8724]

they really sucked after Blink :/ they might be AMAZING villains if appeared only in Blink

[@bizarrebunny5579]

I think it should have been kept at blink. I loved the time of angels but I don't think they should have been weeping angels but I understand why they bought them at angels of manhatten. Amy's first encounter with her daughter was with angels and her last was with angels. But yeah should have been kept at blink

[@mutantdevle4189]

I always wanted them to be brought back but I don't like the additional powers they got. They should have been kept as just what we see in blink.

[@Lokitsu1]

They were a species that, the more you knew about them and the closer you examined them, the less sense they made. This is why some parts of Doctor Who need to be left mysteries.

[@joecarter2812]

You should really listen to Big Finish vashta nerada stories in classic doctors, new monsters. Really good!

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I may eventually, and I should have pointed out I'm not against these characters showing up in novels, comics, or audio because the different media kind of demands a slightly different approach so it's not as inherently redundant.

[@emilyscloset2648]

Minotaur from The God Complex was the first thought that came to me

[@julieeverett7442]

it is not really one off, we had the nimon in classic

[@weazz]

Volcano day had a predetermined ending, BUT the journey to how was great.

[@julieeverett7442]

it was

[@quinnsinclair7028]

Can we hear some of those insane fan theories about the Midnight Entity?

[@cjermevpg6372]

Check out Tvtropes.com Look for Doctor Who Midnight, the WMG page.

[@kilometerzmoralez2024]

the midnight entity is a tardis

[@glenmcculla6843]

The Flood being described as a "water infection" gave me flashbacks to the time i had blood in my pee.

[@cindychung7002]

I would make the Vashta Nerada the “sub-villain” or ticking clock in the episode. You have the doctor pursuing someone he wants to stop on a planet where the Vashta Nerada are. Then the story becomes getting to the person and stopping their plans before they and the doctor/companions get eaten. I’d also like to add the Toklafain to the list. Please don’t bring them back...

[@cindychung7002]

Oh! I want to add the Patchwork People and House! They were wonderful, but I never want them to be demistified!

[@Ariarne12345]

Saw the video title, my instant thought 'midnight'.

[@edgeofablade8982]

Great video I agree with your list (especially Midnight) Also, what were those bells in the back ground when you were taking about the Vastra Nerada

[@RawAirFreshener]

The flood coming to earth could work as a Torchwood story

[@callumh4639]

Sharaz Jek (caves of androzani), Sutekh (pyramids of mars), morbius, the krynoids, Vok robots. Leave them alone please

[@casualcraftman1599]

lady Cassandra should have been a one time villain

[@baybarsedturner2]

Yes and the Slitheen should have been a NO time villain.

[@mujiescomedy279]

baybarsedturner2 they were pretty good in Sarah Jane adventures I think

[@ingonyama70]

*insert obligatory "MoIsTuRiZe Me" meme here*

[@MrRjhyt]

I suspect Cassandra came back to strengthen the continuity. With Christopher only staying for one season, the familiarity helped cement David into the role.

[@Nickman826]

Agreed

[@AzharaSophie]

Great. You just reminded me of all my favorite Dr Who episodes. So, if you excuse me, I'm going to re-watch the whole Tennant series

[@EvolutionProductions1200]

Flood: they end up on some sort of spacecraft that used the ice layer to obtain water. The flood then breaks out in the ship

[@pr1ncecharming306]

The flood gave me nightmares as a kid

[@matriarchalmonarch2752]

8:20 the vashta narada get in the tardis' library because the doctor pretty much never goes there on screen

[@TheCagedCorvid]

There could conceivably be some isolated pocket of them in the tardis somewhere... I wonder if it has a greenhouse...🤔

[@nicolev.3532]

I knew as soon as I read the title that you’d have the midnight entity as your #1 😛 agree completely though. Have you heard that Chris Chibnall has said this season won’t have any old villains? I know you’re at least happy to hear we have a break from Daleks, any other thoughts on that?

[@kevinpeterson6468]

The thing from listen. It was Clara once for the Doctor but everyone has that dream so it can’t be her every time it happens

[@amelialikesfrogs5778]

We knew the outcome of rogue one... But it is one of the best star warses of all time

[@oscarlenehan3507]

In my opinion I think rogue one is good despite not being a great setting for a prequel. However the fact that it is all new characters helps, as we see them grow and develop throughout the movie, whereas with something like Solo, we are seeing a character who we already know grow backwards effectively. However knowing the outcome did lose a lot of the suspense and connection for me. It was still good, but being able to guess pretty much exactly where the plot and characters are going from the start was not a point in the movies favour to me.

[@roguebritgravy1]

I like rogue one, I'd like an obituary wan Kenobi origin movie instead of solo. It could have qui gon jinn recruit and train Kenobi. That sounds good eh?

[@artemiswolf4508]

Star Warses? That’s a weird plural

[@mrflibble1259]

@@artemiswolf4508 yes it is, should've said star wars films

[@richardober8373]

I actually like Rogue One and Solo much better than the current sequel films. They have nuch better character development, even with Han, than anything in the 2 sequels.

[@TheMissileHappy]

I would like to see how the Ice warriors handled the flood, but I wouldn't want an episode dedicated to it. Maybe a comic or something like that

[@PhantomAngelofMusic]

Hi! So, I got a quick gripe about your little rant on the Vashta Nerada. The Doctor does say something, (I don't remember the exact quote, and I'm on a crappy phone so I can't be buggered to look it up, sorry.) along the lines of, "every shadow that has ever spooked a child in the night, every shimmering shade out of the corner of your eye, that's them, that's the Vashta Nerada. Every culture throughout time has stories of the things that go bump in the night, and it's all based on these things." So we know that they can be any time, any where, and I would say, finding one, or maybe a couple, terrorizing a kid or kids, slipping back into the shadows, people, (presumably some adults who don't listen) go missing, show up as skeles later and the shadows playing cat and mouse with the doctor would work. Especially, if it were written from the perspective of the child or children, where we see very little of either the Vashta Nerada OR the Doctor until the end.

[@thetwistedtoast5175]

midnight is, in my opinion, the scariest doctor who episode

[@ryanhlfc]

Davros should have been a one time villain. Character peaked with Genesis

[@TonksMoriarty]

What I find interesting was that these were all from the RTD era... And I can think of multiple monsters in the Moffat era that should've been that whole thing of "what the hell was that!?" biggest of which was the Minotaur thing in the God Complex. We should've never, ever seen what it was.

[@ajn5032]

Big point on the beast: He could be transported to a universe of anti-matter like Omega was when he was thrown into a black hole when the stasis halo on the Eurydice broke. And the use of his will allowing him to send creatures to capture the doctor. That is just what Omega did with his gell guards.

[@PsyKosh]

Could play with the beast in a different way: Distant distant distant _DISTANT_ future when the black hole evaporates and the information content the black hole swallowed has been fully released (in scrambled form), the beasts esoteric nature allows it to unscramble sufficiently to meaningfully exist again in some sense. Time travel being a thing of at least some relevance to the show (wink), stuff ends up happening. Another way to make it relevant again: Explore why it wasn't just dumped in the black hole in the first place, why it was kept suspended with a setup that makes it fall in only if it tries to escape. Have some sort of negative consequence to it being black holed. Re the midnight entity: You said you can't repeat the scenario because that's just repeating... but from a certain perspective, that's exactly appropriate appropriate in the case of the midnight entity. ;)

[@superraegun2649]

The Empty Child, the Minotaur from “The God Complex”, The Dream Lord, The Living Star from “42” (or like with the Family of Blood, could come back but not as the villain.), and the villain from “Heaven Scent”. There, that makes it up to 10. Also I’d like to see a video of recurring characters from Classic who who shouldn’t be brought back.

[@julieeverett7442]

because of the age difference the only ones who CAN come back are the Time Ladies!

[@gryfon_gamez8184]

The Vashta Nerrada have returned before, not in the show but in the Doctor Who Adventure Games. And in my opinion they were utilised pretty well and consistent with their portrayal in shadows of the library. They were forcefully brought to where the story takes place, a underwater research facility, through a wormhole against their will so they are just feeding on people to survive out of necessity. And the way the doctor defeats it isn't destroying them but sending them home.

[@FriendlyGhost02]

Midnight is one of my all time favorite episodes, I love how utterly vulnerable and terrified (and maybe traumatized) the Doctor is, THAT SHOT OF HIM BEING DRAGGED OUT CRYING OMG! (I kinda love seing the Doctor in emotional distress/physical pain... is the worrisome??)

[@FriendlyGhost02]

But yeah NEVER BRING IT BACK

[@WestVirginia130]

I think the only way I would like to see a "The Flood" callback is if there was some kind of story where the Doctor ends up in some kind of "space CDC" facility and there's something in the background or like a real quick throwaway line where it's clear that this phenomenon has been discovered like hundreds of years later by space scientists and they are just as baffled and horrified by this like "lost colony of Roanoke" type situation. I love tiny throwbacks like that!

[@shaqkeelrahman1536]

you know what should come back the paradox creatures from fathers day

[@julieeverett7442]

yes, but who is going to screw up their own timeline bad enough to do it, other than IT and IT has enough story already! (refering to a very annoying character that came in with 11th)

[@ganondorf797]

About the Vashta Nerada, in my Doctor Who tabletop RPG campaign, I actually bring them back, on a planet where they were brought by accident, and where soldiers have mechanized battle suits. The thing is, the Vashta Nerada control the battle suit the same way they did the spacesuits in Silence in te Library/Forest of the Dead, and so the planet becomes a battlefield. Just to say, ok, I don't have to worry about budget, but there is a way to use those villains in different ways.

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

with The Flood I want to see Ice Warriors vs The Flood, show us how they might have frozen it under the ice

[@tardisglitch547]

I agree with some of your choices but I am writing an episode with one of these monsters in one of my doctor who audio series which is hopefully going to work out this year

[@Gormaco]

Another villain that should never return is the 456. They can’t do it again ever. Especially with the doctor present.

[@hellsingmongrel]

Oh man, Midnight is possibly my favorite New Who - maybe even ANY Doctor Who - story EVER! And yes, bringing that entity back would seriously take away a lot of the mystery and terror it envoked!

[@Kayjai97]

I definitely agree, I think they need more of the really creative 1-off villains. And keeping them 1 time only, cos otherwise like you said, too much is explained and they lose elements of the fear they inspire.

[@hiygamer]

The only possible option I can think of with the Vashta Nerada (sorry for the likely butchered spelling), would be to do something like have them get loose in the Tardis.

[@567secret]

I do broadly agree with you on these, although there's a couple I think I could accept being brought back if the story is very well written such as to not suddenly bring the antagonist down a level.

[@hughsterb]

I would love to see the beast brought back, it's one of my favourite villains and stories! I feel like it's so mysterious that there could be a huge story arc to bring it back that is so cryptic it doesn't reveal too much more about it, just more of its power.

[@KaiCalimatinus]

I think you could do a cool Vashtanyarada story, maybe if you make them the side that actually needs saving. Dangerous and such but yeah. Abbadon did come back in Torchwood if I remember too. I did like with the Angels, first we run and learn to understand them, the second time was a mission forced to go past them. I agree with the Flood, the idea they have some intelligence and are ancient and powerful and need sealed away there, and not quite sure about them either. By the same token, I think that is also why not to touch Abbadon, yeah. And same for Midnight. That's my favourite episode. To preserve the fear in rewatching those episodes is a strong reason not to spoil these things.

[@NevByte]

The Vashta Nerada actually have been brought back in a couple of other capacities. There was a video game with them as the villains, and there's been at least two Big Finish audios with them. I think the Vashta Nerada might work a bit better as Big Finish only villains going forward. You won't be able to see what they're doing which will make them more terrifying.

[@joanpringle7348]

My pick would be the Mummy on the Orient Express. Though that episode did explain what the mummy was and wrapped up the story, the mummy should be left alone but I would like to know what attacked the train.

[@julieeverett7442]

yes, who is gus?

[@SweenyTodd98]

Sutekh from Pyramids of Mars is another one that I don't think should come back

[@julieeverett7442]

you want to hack off an Osirian? Something that actually frightens the doctor? Baaaaaaad plan!!!!!!! agreed

[@christinewahl3470]

I just enjoy listening to you, - your thoughts and your reasons for why you believe what you do on any of the topics you have chosen to talk about. The villian that was brought back too many times,- the Daleks.I know they were a staple, a part of the fabric of Doctor Who, but they should have been given a rest in Journey's End. Why was there a dalek in Peter's last time as the Doctor? I still haven't figured that out. I agree with your choices, especially, The Beast and the Midnight Entity. The unknown is always more frightening. Even more so,when the Doctor can not reason with it or come to satisfying conclusion.

[@dds0075]

Interesting how all these Villans are Tenant era villains!

[@coladict]

While I'm also against bringing back The Beast for reasons that I didn't like the original story, if getting sucked into the black hole doesn't kill him, then he will eventually escape. It is confirmed that black holes lose mass over time, which means at some point they may become small enough to explode or something, and begin their cycle again.

[@your_mate_nate9428]

I freaking love “the midnight entity”

[@joshuawilliams2350]

Can you do a video on your top tardis interiors ?

[@wsmc2103]

I think the Vasta Nerada can be used again. You can do a ship full of humans on their way to mine a planet that's full of them. Have them jettison the Tardis then you have a goal for The Doctor and episode's characters. I think you can do it without demystifying them if you resit making them talk again or have any sort of queen. Just them trying to get to a place through a planet full of them. I think you have a very different experience with them being outside. You can do an outrun the sunset sort of deal, setting camp with the lighting the miners brought, which the Vasta Nerada figure out how to break through on the 2nd or 3rd night. You got me thinking about the Beast now too. If he fell into a black hole them there could be an Omega type situation brewing of a very literal hell 100% agree on the Midnight entity. I love that we don't know anything about what that was

[@Elnis888]

Hi Nathaniel! I enjoy watching your videos, and I would love to hear your thoughts on the following: Why are so many alien species seemingly afraid of The Doctor? And do we, the viewers, buy into it? Please keep up the great work on your very interesting videos! Friendly greetings, and a loving viking headbutt, from Denmark ;-)

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Why? Because Moffat over-extended the Doctor's importance within the universe of the show. Davies did that a little too by the time he closed out, but Moffat ran with it and now the Doctor has become so omnipresent that every other species already knows who he is. Not something I like to dwell on because I don't like it. It's that I don't buy it, I just don't like it.

[@Elnis888]

Hello. Thank you for your reply. Righty-o. I agree with you, I just thought it might make for an interesting video :-)

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Already addressed it about as much as I care to here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4KaYniQjKqgbbM

[@cable78]

Can you rank multi Doctor stories next time?