5 Things in Osu That Make No Sense to Me

For a game that's based on consistency, it sure isn't the most consistent in its design lol.
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[@salamaltar7]

"Pausing is cheating" - Jakads wants to know your location

[@Triantalex]

hm??

[@sushifromasia]

@@Triantalex "Pausing is not cheating." -Jakads

[@johnnowak4390]

Micca

[@Triantalex]

@@sushifromasia .

[@KidsCastable]

@@sushifromasia *beats stellium dan with no pause* - also Jakads

[@ckearnz1777]

also pausing is cheating: me playing a 5 minute map: yes

[@overdosed5317]

stamina is just an another skill you must obtain. Pausing just completely negates that skill.

[@ckearnz1777]

@@overdosed5317 bruh it’s a joke but thanks anyways

[@ZetaZzzzz]

@@overdosed5317 well, i think it's a joke. As a noob who started a couple of weeks ago, I lose concentration when I pause the game 😔

[@krispykrep912]

me playing kyoani tribute map: yes

[@omegand.]

Half of these are supposedly fixed in laser, but that's coming out as soon as yandere sim is finished so don't keep your hopes up

[@NaomiSS_]

XDDD

[@volchonokilliR]

Judging by the state of development, 2021 actually can be a year for lazer to replace stable. Most complicated question now isn't actually development but what to do with old scores/and scorev2 in general

[@sophisticatedfrog5737]

@@volchonokilliR yea sure dude, I remember when people said that in 2017 about 2018 too xdddddd

[@volchonokilliR]

@@sophisticatedfrog5737 I'm basing it on developers stream and process of development, being myself a developer. Of course it's just a guess, but I think it's pretty close

[@volchonokilliR]

ah, I think I must clarify that I am not developing osu or helping with development in any way, I am just someone who works in IT and knows some programming

[@Larfty]

that capital O in osu is really bothering me

[@batorygimnazjum2683]

The OSU.

[@EtienneYT]

Add that to the list of things that make no sense to me lmao

[@eyesneveropen-meow-5125]

OSU.

[@zZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZza]

osU

[@M4TTYN]

it's not capitol .... all don't capitalize it Ohio State university! KEKW

[@zoeythebee1779]

Things that don't make sense to me in Osu 5.The scoring system 4.The scoring system 3.The scoring system 2.The scoring system 1.The scoring system

[@suyasuya]

nearly perfect video except for the fact you missed talking about notelock

[@BoshyMan741]

this

[@LeafyGrovyle]

just this, notelock just doesn't make sense for me

[@jackson5098]

Yep

[@seamie6644]

Ah yes, people's favorite reason as to why they can't hit streams But seriously, notelock deserves to die and burn to ashes in the deepest and darkest place of Hell please

[@MonsterPlusArt]

@@seamie6644 As the game that only requires you to hit only one input at a time ( -but ADOFAI- ), notelock is important to not messing up the pattern and prevent you from chessing objects, but yeah I agree it's too strict, as of writing this comment.

[@PurpleCoin7777]

My takes as an okay player and someone who's been in the community for a while: - Yeah passive HP drain sucks. At least they nerfed it so that you can't fail as long as you don't lose HP from a judgement like you used to (some maps were unpassable with HR in the past before that was changed) - Entirely true. It's just the score multipliers are a thing from 2007 and changing them now would invalidate every score set between then and now so that's why it isn't changing until whenever lazer is finished - I kind of like how pp and score are separated. While a pp leaderboard for each song would definitely be a welcome addition, replacing score with it would just be weird. There's a whole community around getting #1 scores on maps (mostly through the use of the flashlight mod) and having a difficult FL FC beaten by some random DT choke on the leaderboard would totally destroy that. I do see where people who aren't too into the game are coming from in this argument, but eh. I like the system and it's definitely grown on me well. - Combo scoring shouldn't change because in solo play the community generally focuses on FCs rather than high accuracy passes. In tournaments, where accuracy should be cared about way more, we have scorev2 to fix that. - OD and HP staying the same between songs would be a terrible idea. Plenty of songs have differing rhythms or patterns in the way they're mapped that would just make some ODs or HP values stupid to get any decent accuracy on at all, in addition to expressing the song in different ways (making maps is a lot more of an art form in osu compared to most rhythm games). Including variable ODs helps people have a good baseline of accuracy to focus on at any point in their osu career (rather than going from 50% accuracy as a new player because they're playing effectively OD10 on everything to 99% as a top player).

[@finance_student]

best comment

[@multiwarfull]

Yep absolutely agree with every point you make, especially the od part

[@tehchonka5031]

exactly how i feel

[@KPoWasTaken]

ScoreV2 is better, sure. But the issue of combo score multiplier is still there, just not to the extent of scoreV1 combo score multiplier.

[@Garfield_Osu]

I agree with most of these issues except OD, I think the mapper should determine how difficult his map is and if you really want to change it you can always make a quick edit. Combo scoring and backwards mod multiplier logic is the thing I hate the most but luckily scorev2 fixes that.

[@seanscott1308]

custom OD isn’t a good tool for more expressive mapping. Unlike custom CS or AR or actual mapping technique, differing OD’s doesn’t change the way a map is played. Making OD a more rigid metric doesn’t harm mappers, but it does help players. A more stable OD creates a much more uniform and clean play experience. It should be changed.

[@over_loadcode]

​@@seanscott1308 "differing OD’s doesn’t change the way a map is played" yes it does lol Higher OD forces players to be rigid with their tapping and takes some of their focus away from aim. Sort of like a less effective AR. ex. osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/480298#osu/1215688 It's also sometimes used to highlight intricate rhythm, like here osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/942117#osu/1967216

[@seanscott1308]

@@over_loadcode There are definitely exceptions where custom OD has good purpose in mapping - I should of noted that in my original comment - but as I also stated. OD is a very weak tool. It has uses, but at the cost of user experience and consistency. Not worth it. I’ll definitely check out the maps you listed though.

[@troiing]

are we gonna mention that lower od = more notelock

[@RynnavinxMusic]

@@troiing If you're mentioning that, then we should also mention how stupid that is lol

[@liamofam1]

osu is methamphetamines and I'm very much addicted

[@skulckerker3060]

fun fact, you all did not read that word

[@liamofam1]

@Alexander Lipinski they are one in the same; omnipotence is a hell of a thing

[@Vinni-2K]

"Pausing is cheating" for me its almost always an instant loss, or combobreak

[@darkebluu4400]

In std i also cannot pause because of the same reason as your reason. But in mania it's very easy to pause and continue.

[@WillyOsu]

My OSU novice Opinion: - HP drain needs to be removed - The score multipliers are adjusted in lazer but they're still the way they are in stable since it's always been this way and lazer is the ultimate fix to the things wrong in the game (peppy has done some interesting rebalancing of old score to lazer score conversion in the client if you want to check that out) - I have no idea. People have wanted pp leaderboard for about 7 years but peppy just won't add it for some unknown reason. - COMBO SCORING SUCKS (scorev2 is better though which is why every tournament uses it) - I've never really found this to be a problem but I guess I can see what you mean, I'm fine with the way it is though.

[@Wieku]

ScoreV2 and lazer scoring are still combo "based" but combo only account for half the score

[@troiing]

@@Wieku combo is 60% of the score and acc is 40% so its still more combo based

[@Wieku]

@@troiing Oh right, it was 50/50 for mania. For osu it's 70/30

[@rejectedryan6539]

score v2 is better imo, but i absolute hate how much slider accuracy matters in scorev2. some maps such as big black it is just borderline impossible to get the right timing on all the sliders.

[@sushifromasia]

trills give too much pp in mania and 1 - 2s give too much pp in standard

[@colinlane3964]

great takes couldnt have said it better myself lmao

[@theonlybass8947]

I come from the year 11,253! osu! Lazer was released 2 days ago.

[@charlesfreeze3997]

How many jets does Peppy have?

[@bakuretsue]

He probably planted osu facilities on mars by now

[@ghostly65]

In Score V2, HR does have a higher multiplier than HD. So it is at least better in tournament.s

[@vvv331]

Thats literally the reason i quit osu in favor of VSRG, especially because of combo scoring, you can call me a skill issue if you want to, but this was the main reason why.

[@MysticMocha]

to be honest, almost all mobile rhythm games as well have the combo-based scoring thing where a single miss will ruin your whole play. PP is pretty much skill based and score is rank based.

[@MonsterPlusArt]

so far only Cytus (both 1 and 2) and Phigros are still having combo scoring. Most mobile RGs are purely acc-based.

[@MysticMocha]

@@MonsterPlusArt Arcaea, Lanota, Dynamix, (testing the new ones KALPA and Orzmic) those games also rely on combo

[@MonsterPlusArt]

@@MysticMocha Orzmic and Arcaea are purely accuracy based. Combo-based scoring will make the score lost varies depends on where you missed the note and the highest combo you get, while it is not the case with them. You sure know how combo based actually works?

[@MysticMocha]

@@MonsterPlusArt well, I've been playing rhythm games since the first cytus. The concept of having a simple combo break while it's still early is a bit annoying or irritating since it basically breaks your score completely. Some games don't bother with it and just score you based on performance. Games similar to Bandori cannot be considered a full-time rhythm game, either being an idol-like music based game since there's no point in having a full combo with your score being exceptionally low there.

[@TehBroh4n]

Combo scoring is why I switch to osumania

[@M4TTYN]

sad most don't play any other mode then standard.... you got more of a chance to make it in catch, taiko to mania (a given) then standard cause their played less but crazy most sink their time to be some "prolific" player in a game most outside of the niche scene really don't give a shit about Whitecat, Rafis, BTMC, etc are only relatively popular to osu! players. To usual lust of fame which i don't get one bit.

[@Freelancer302]

@@M4TTYN Standard osu is just more fun it's not about 'making it'.

[@ivory8956]

@@M4TTYN like freelancer said the gamemode is more fun to most people also I like having the aim aspect and stuff I find it more fun to play and watch

[@patoivan6222]

Im both standard and mania main (7.1kpp in std, 6.7kpp in mania), and although i HATE combo scoring, mania is also kinda boring to farm because you can just miss a ton of notes or play absurdly overrated maps that your skill level doesn't reach yet and still be rewarded, even tho i hate that my play gets ruined by a sliderbreak in the start of the map in standard, i also dislike that a hundred misses barely mean anything in mania So, in conclusion, both gamemodes have their fun, but when it comes to farming they both suck

[@leonn1805]

@@patoivan6222 I couldn't agree more, total agree with what you say, farming just sucks in general

[@Lambda.Function]

I think HP should be reworked entirely and have nothing to do with the map. AR should be a preference, not a part of the map imo, at the very least let people increase the AR, so maps/mod combinations over AR 10 are still challenging and can't be cheezed, but at the same time have an option to choose the AR that won't rank the score like auto for focusing on reading. Why is DT fixed at 1.5x and not a range like 1.1x-2.0x. It's very weird we need a custom client called McOsu to do these things, it's like the game doesn't want you to play it.

[@rackstacker800]

combo scoring is why i quit, my nerves always get the better of me so when i shit miss like once my score is worthless and it sucks

[@M4TTYN]

imagine quieting a game lmao

[@Keksi]

quieting

[@leonn1805]

Quieting

[@sorakeee]

Quieting

[@jianisthewrst98]

Quieting

[@SmoreJoy]

Been playing this game for 9 years, and Etienne is spittin straight facts

[@seventwentyseven]

why arent you a top player yet

[@SmoreJoy]

@@seventwentyseven I tried back in 2016, highest I got to was #1202. I don't like speed, stamina, or high AR. I like the more gimmicky stuff better.

[@sawgiie]

@@SmoreJoy Ronald's insanity?

[@7kenjoyer]

daaamn I remember your 0108 map liveplay. someone sent me that video because of your grip and we had a good laugh

[@pkdonkey789]

@@seventwentyseven Tech player

[@andylawlzz]

I commented in the in-game chat once about how combo affecting your score so harshly was really terrible rhythm game design and everyone flamed me. thanks for making me feel like I'm not the only one (I don't really hang out in osu or rhythm game circles at all so I'm ignorant on how popular the scoring is in the community at large) edit: I also think it's really dumb you can miss notes without breaking combo. it's very confusing. actually basically everything about osu is horrible for brand new players. if you're playing the modes where you only have to aim, or only have to click (forget the mod names sorry) the game should still represent that you're getting a combo so you know if you're doing either of those right. everything is so damned unintuitive it's really frustrating to actually attempt to get better.

[@Quamtam.]

ur not wrong, combo game is bullshit LOL

[@ailucid]

Wdym you can miss notes without breaking combo

[@ddream296]

>you can miss notes without breaking combo wait, you can?

[@Quamtam.]

@@ailucid u can miss sliderends without breaking combo

[@ailucid]

@@Quamtam. yes but sliderends aren’t notes and you lose 1 combo and acc anyway

[@snil4]

- Most of these issues come from the original Osu for the DS (elite beat agents for the west), which still doesn't make them ok in Osu (the pc one) since this stuff was fair and balanced in the DS due to the usually calm charts. - about combo scoring, Oh boy here we go again... I don't know why developers like combo scoring so much since almost any community despise it. Happyf333tz made a whole video about it from the perspective of a pump it up player so I suggest people to check it out. Tldr it's supposed to reward consistency, but it doesn't have any way to judge based on a part's difficulty, and also pad errors are a thing.

[@SkylineSonata]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thinks that HP drain and combo scoring is the dumbest thing

[@rmantf2]

The multiplier for HDHR is actually 1.1236x. It just shows up as 1.12x in game. So it gives more score than DT.

[@ComedyVault101]

Alright here are my responses as somebody who has over 800 hours in the game. 1. I completely agree with you here. HP drain is pretty dumb especially when there are no notes on the screen. I believe this happens when a break in the notes is not long enough to be an actual break, so the HP just keeps draining. If they fixed that it wouldn't be that bad, but honestly having different HP drain on different maps is stupid. It just artificially inflates difficulty. 2. Again, I agree with you here. However I will say it could be argued that hidden on stream maps specifically makes those maps even more difficult than they would be with HR, because streams with hidden are incredibly hard to be consistent at, even for experienced players. But in general, HR increases the difficulty significantly more. 3. PP is almost a universally better measurement of how impressive a play is than score. If you're comparing two plays on the same map the one worth more pp is almost certainly more impressive. So ranking based on score is dumb, especially since the mod multipliers are unbalanced. However, as you said this is a result of combo scoring, which I don't have nearly as much of a problem with as you because... 4. This is primarily an aim based game. Don't get me wrong, I don't take the ridiculous stance that some people do that it's not a rhythm game, but aim is the main focus. And what shows that your aim is lacking? Missing. So combo based scoring makes sense because it encourages consistency in aim, not necessarily in accuracy though (take a look at MinG3012 for an example of a low accuracy, high combo player). Now in a pure rhythm game that would make no sense, obviously you would want to encourage consistency in accuracy. But this is an aim game first and foremost, with a heavy rhythm component. Aim is what makes this game unique among rhythm games, and to emphasize that aspect of the game, it has combo based scoring. This means that full combos are very highly regarded because they show incredible consistency in aim. This also explains why missing at the hardest parts makes you lose more pp, because the hardest parts of a map are the ones that test your aim the most. Personally I think it's more exciting because it encourages FCs more than other rhythm games. Most impressive scores in stuff like osu! mania aren't FCs, so in my opinion they're a lot less exciting (I could be biased because I don't play them). Having missing penalize you so much makes top plays that much more impressive, and encourages consistency among top players. I think the way to fix this is to keep combo based scoring since it correlates well with the aim aspect of the game, but penalize a bit more for low accuracy. 5. I agree with you on HP. Variation on HP is really jarring and incredibly annoying on some maps where it seems the mapper just chose a high HP drain to be a dick. However, I don't see variation in OD as a problem. It's only a problem in the sense that some otherwise difficult maps give less pp than they should because the mapper happened to pick a low OD. But switching between ODs is confusing. Perhaps it's just jarring for you coming from a game like Etterna, where you have complete control over the timing windows, but for me, it's not confusing. I just know that OD 9 is the "standard", OD 10 is going to be a bit harder for me to get good acc on, and anything below OD 9 I have no excuse to get bad acc on. Basically, you should be able to do everything below your highest comfortable OD very easily. Sometimes playing above that highest comfortable OD can be difficult though, but that's just how accuracy works.

[@imflat2096]

Score exists because lots of people still like to play for score rather than pp (and score is used for tournament scoring). This game is divided into 2 styles: setting scores or farming pp. I suck so I farmed pp, but other people set scores just cause they’re cool. I agree pp needs to be rebalanced. 90% of my scores shouldn’t be worth above 500pp. The game is broken and is way too easy because of this messed up pp calc system. Adding an active rebalance where a team constantly modifies the pp values would be the best approach. I know they used to do this a couple years back too. I’m actually okay with hp drain. It makes sense because it’s what makes maps harder. It also pretty much forces you to have good acc and that really helps with improving. I also support different values for different maps. Every mapper should be able to set whatever values they want for their maps. Osu is much different from mania in the sense that you’re also aiming, which means that there can be different designs and overall different ways to make maps. This can lead to different types of maps, and that can go on to a wider range of things.

[@YouGotLikesFromMe]

I still don’t like combo scoring to this day, it makes score leaderboards on some maps basically obsolete for reasons that we all should know by now. And then as you stated pp is also biased towards certain patterns which is a balancing nightmare that exist for the entirety of this game’s life span. This leaves me as a player to only chase after accuracy scores which to be honest isn’t really rewarding, cause it’s really just hitting 2 buttons repeatedly, and the accuracy aspect heavily eclipse by the aim aspect of the game where most people focus on anyways, and this caused me to get frustrated at the game rather than feel rewarding for playing it

[@imflat2096]

​@@YouGotLikesFromMe Yeah it's sad how there's no strive for score anymore. I was actually okay with score when pp wasn't as focused as it is now, and I was okay with combo scoring (aka I was okay with stream maps rewarding more than jump maps let's say), but now everyone only cares about pp this pp that and the game became a waste of time. I also feel like the community becoming too good is a reason this happened. Everyone is nuts now, and that just ruins the game as bad as that sounds. If I set a cool score I wanted a few years ago I feel nothing. Everyone is way too good at jump maps and reading and no scores are interesting for me anymore since it's the same play with a different song. I still think nerfing all the dt 1 tricks would really help the game. I don't know why they removed realtime rebalancing and they should get back into that because it'll get people to stop worshipping their 300pp harumachi clover play much sooner.

[@steel5897]

Combo being so overvalued is why I stopped playing very early. I get major nerves when on a good play so comboing is one of my weakest skills in rhythm games.

[@Leo137]

hp drain exists because thats how osu tatake ouendan worked back then and they came along with it. Kinda like stepmania borrowed stuff from ddr (ie, regrab holds) and it molded the game into what has became, making it really hard to switch off

[@HowMethods]

I like how they technically fixed all the problems since nf in score v2 gives no penalty, accuracy is represented better, and hr is worth more than hd. But good luck changing the scoring system to scorev2. Lazer should fix more of the problems but it constantly gets delays so good luck with that too.

[@7kenjoyer]

I haven't played with scorev2 enough to remember but I think they made it a bit more combo dependent than it was initially. either way it's still clearly not enough of a bonus for accuracy

[@zblurth855]

not having a button to skip the part where you just waiting for the music like serious how many miss i did after the pause because i did lose the flow of the map

[@JonathanScarlet]

I don't mind combo scoring. I feel like it represents a fair reward for consistent play (as in, not dropping a streak due to misses or SB's). Just about the only change I'd make it to somehow ensure early misses and late misses are treated equally, but I don't know how that would work.

[@icemocha6703]

Tbh I can tolerate everything mentioned in this video except for combo scoring. That shit doesn't make sense.

[@i77-]

I'm surprised that you didn't mention the absence of changing the song's rate

[@crunkky8736]

I think that might be because of pp, or maybe because of approach rate calculations. Idk though

[@hifumindesu6784]

he already made a video about it kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6Wni5Z5rbKUjZY

[@jaraxxis]

I totally agree that draining HP and always changing AR on osu! maps is frustrating.

[@GeneralNickles]

i just started playing osu a couple days ago, and so far the only thing that doesnt make sense to me is: 1. lack of tutorials. i clicked to play a song and this anime girl with a plate on her head shows up and im like "what... what is happening? did i download the wrong game?" and it took me a good 30 second to figure out that i was suppose to control it with the mouse, not the keyboard. which is frustrating, doubly so because i genuinely didnt even know that game mode existed 30 seconds earlier. Osu desperately needs a comprehensive tutorial mode for all the game modes that explains stuff you just wouldnt know otherwise. for instance, how the notes tend to follow the drums in the song, rather whatever the most prominent instrument is, be that piano or guitar or whatever. as a guitar hero player, my ears are trained to follow the frontline instrument, not the drums, and i feel like a lot of people would be thrown off by that like i was, because guitar hero tends to be most people's intro to rhythm games. 2. difficulty spikes. i downloaded osu for the express purpose of playing mania. i was most interested in 4k and 5k, but i'll admit im not super well versed in either, especially on a keyboard. i played what the game calls the easiest songs, and they were practically braindead easy to me. i went to the very next song after the "easy" songs, and it's borderline impossible for a beginner. i've been playing rhythm games for a long time, so i didnt have too much trouble, but i simply dont understand how they could expect a total noob to play the "normal" songs immediately after how mind numbingly easy the "easy" setlist was. there just doesnt seem to be an "intermediate" difficulty. it goes from too easy, to almost impossible, to actually impossible in the span of "easy" "normal" and "hard", and i didnt even bother looking at the "insane" songs. (again, im saying this from the perspective of a brand new player. i can play the "normal" difficulty just fine, and even a couple "hard" songs didnt give me much trouble, but i dont see how someone new to rhythm games could see that and think thats the "normal" difficulty. it would be so far outside of what they think they can accomplish that i can see it being really discouraging for them.)

[@JonathanScarlet]

#1 is kinda countered by the fact that there's an fruit (apple, I think) indicator to the right of the song to separate Catch, Mania, Taiko and standard Osu from each other. You may not know you stumbled into a Catch the Beat-style song, but you can at least tell it's not what you're looking for. But, in some fairness to your original point, tutorial-style songs for each of the modes would be very helpful if you've never seen any of them before. #2 is a fair enough argument for the songs that you get in the base game on download, I guess. I have basically never touched the other modes, mainly play in the 2-3* range on standard Osu because that's currently where I can SS songs, but for the most part it's relatively linear as far as the difficulty curve. There could very well be massive differences at higher star rankings, but imo it's been consistent for me. Now, if you're talking about the [X's Y] stuff at the end, I'm actually not sure about that. I'm not a mapper at all, so I don't know if that's an automatic placement by the game itself (the lowest difficulty is labelled Easy below a certain star rating regardless of what that rating is, the next is Normal, and so on, and if you have a lot of them in one song some can be giving certain names), or if it's just a convention of the mappers, so I can't speak to that. It does seem silly that a song with four maps, all of which are below 3*, has the highest-rated map labelled "insane", though.

[@CrushedParagon]

I don't know if this a thing in Osu! but the first thing I noticed in osumania is bads and goods still contribute to a combo

[@oblivion2k490]

bads (or 50s in standard) are still combos in standard, but say goodbye to your FC if you let go of a slider a millisecond early, because reasons.

[@seventwentyseven]

"Pausing is cheating" Me: Farewell my grip

[@LiamH2004]

i think if you could change the rates of a map in-game with increments of 5% that would also be a great addition to the game

[@7kenjoyer]

I was so sure he would mention this but oh well.. he did but in another video I won't be surprised if they actually add the mod but the smallest step will be 10% because I T I S E N O U G H

[@bananya6020]

y e s, i hate combo scoring. btw the hr multiplier is fixed a bit in score v2 but imo still dumb since it makes hd plays worth too much compared to nomod. either way, osu is really a weird game imo in that it began differently (DS rhythm game) so at the beginning peppy tried to copy as many aspects as possible, but now they realized some things aren't exactly perfect (like when leaderboards were decided by score) yet only partially fix it (e.g., they realized hp drain sucked, prevented you from dying when too-long spinners or too-often short breaks appeared, that really used to happen, but then didn't fix the fundumental problem that it's *too damn harsh,* or they realized that combo scoring is dumb, minimally attempted to fix it in the pp system, gave up twice, then still has no solution. also, acc is weirdly scored, where hitting 100 1/2 beat consistent circles gives basically the same as 100 weirdly spaced 1/3 and 1/2 and 1/4 mixed. that basically makes it so acc doesn't really matter as long as the map is designed to be easy to acc with consistent rhythms and gives basically free pp)

[@moenaihai]

osu!mania's flaws became painfully apparent for me after switching to etterna (the better of the two)

[@dumteaa]

OD and HP are chosen by the mapper, as well as the stats not necessarily correlating correctly with number wise. also fun fact, OD and AR used to be linked a long time ago. The reason why they arent the same for all is because of uniqueness in maps and how they play I would imagine but it is wack yeah

[@misbahul9044]

1. HP drain is stupid, all my fams agreed 2. CS OD AR etc im not quite catch it lol 3. The scoring system, the classic combo gaming haha When full combo A rank 92% scored way more than 99.9% only 1x miss in middle of the song. Its so punishing and make your play not so good in "scoreboard wise" haha For the mod score with pp i think half agree in HD HR multiplier but HR give more pp so i guess its not that bad, also we have selected mods rank (that i wish it can show for country rank not only for global one) that can give its own achievment even if you dont make it in global ranking scoreboard

[@RunicSSB]

#1 should've been Nintendo still refusing to make Elite Beat Agents 2.

[@icedspade]

Why did peppy even called osu "ous" Maybe it's O's like O is a circle like those things in the game Big bruh moment.

[@bruhmoment2262]

apparently thats the japanese pronounciation

[@petey5009]

Alright lemme try to explain it So osu! standard is based heavily on a game called Elite Beat Agents, also known as Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan in Japan. That's where the name comes from Now for pronunciation, osu is pronounced ous because in japanese it'd be "o" and "su", with "su" being pronounced like "s" TLDR it's the japanese pronunciation

[@icedspade]

@@petey5009 Oh, now I got it, thanks for explaining it.

[@miloshake2967]

@@petey5009 And that is called devoicing where the u will be silent and will be pronouce as os

[@saturn6458]

this question makes me feel old somehow

[@hachikuji_mayoi]

Variable OD is a good thing, OD9+ is great for maps harder than 6 stars but it's way too difficult at 2-3 stars, even decent players will struggle with it.

[@oblivion2k490]

It just tightens or loosens the timing window. Are you saying that an easier song with a tighter timing window would be harder than a harder song with the same timing window? That doesn't make any sense to me. More likely the issue is that 2-3 star maps usually have lower AR and "decent" players used to playing AR9+ will tap early and have low acc if it's using a high OD with low AR.

[@hachikuji_mayoi]

@@oblivion2k490 the hit density is so low that it's hard to get the feel for the rhythm

[@myrjavi]

i don't really know why he complains about the variable OD its like he wanted beginners to struggle with accuracy problems from the start? (i know he doesn't and this was from 2 years ago but i still found it stupid)

[@nobully_osu]

A couple of your gripes have supposedly been fixed in scoreV2. Hard rock is now worth 1.10x instead of 1.06x score, and your scores are more "accuracy" based. The max score is now 1 million points like mania, however if you break combo a lot or even once or twice then you will get literally a maximum of 100k-200k points even with high 98% or 99% accuracy. Would love to know what you think of these changes because I think it's probably even worse than what we have now.

[@snil4]

Imagine a 1 miss and all perfects losing to a fc with more 50s and 100s than perfects. Great accuracy measurement...

[@coluzea]

dude thank you for roasting combo scoring it never made sense to me. it's how the game is but just because its always been that way doesn't mean it makes sense lol edit: yes im salty because i lost good scores to dumb misses at the halfway point of a map

[@banana_]

i totally agree on the scoring part, and because of that a lot of players aim to get better combo rather than better acc.. I think even peppy agrees, but they had score v1 for so long that it's almost impossible to change without making the whole community angry 😀

[@void_lol3333]

on the surface hardrock does seem to be a lot harder then hidden in general but with lower ar hidden can actually make it a lot harder. Right now im just coming off of a break so im not really able to make a video showing the difference but it can be very extreme for me at least. Obviously its different for certain players but depending on your skills in reading can change how you play with mods drastically. Personally im a speed player so i am an extreme case but it is very dependant on the map. tldr: star rating cinge

[@lichuuuin1867]

The thing that doesnt make sense to me is that osu! is just a circle clicking game yet im so addicted to it

[@ShiroCh_ID]

pump it up its a combo based scoring system

[@LuckyHamburger]

I'm late asf but it's worth noting that HD makes low AR and streams/spaced streams exponentially harder while HR does the opposite for low ar and isn't nearly as hard on streams.

[@yuugienjoyer]

Idea for score multiplier issue: *_OH, WAIT, GUITAR HERO ALREADY SLOVED THIS ISSUE_*

[@PianoDude1011]

HDHR is actually 1.1236x multiplier and DT is 1.12x, meaning that SS on HDHR > SS on DT, which makes even less sense than HD being worth more score than HR

[@witmilk6527]

V2 scoring exists but let's not mind it I'd say make the score multiplier of HD go down by 0.01 Fixed

[@THORWAVE]

As a somewhat experienced (?) player myself, I agree with pretty much all of this. I've never been bothered by the inconsistent od but at the same time I'm not an accuracy player myself so might not be for me to say, though I would like to also note that any map that's od 7.2 and higher (so most decently difficult maps) played with HR is locked at od 10 other things I think should be in the game is rate changes, which I think you've mentioned in another video, and for note lock to be removed

[@DeoxyShocK]

hidden can sometimes be objectively harder than hardrock (each mod alone) as it completely depends on: for hidden - approach rate (lower ar's immensely difficult in reading, as with EZ), and for hardrock - sometimes a map with lower AR can be slapped on with hardrock to actually make reading _easier_ (as long as you are able to compensate for the lower CS). examples for hidden making maps way harder compared to hardrock is any regular map with HDEZ slapped on, and examples for hardrock making maps easier is basically almost any high SR map with around AR9 as it's base approach rate (Freedom Dive Four Dimensions is the only one I can think of atm), slapped on with hardrock, and now it's AR10.

[@rikiaosu]

was scared he was gonna bring up not needing to hit accurately on sliders

[@gloomygl]

Combo scoring is the single reason why I'll never get interested in standard, doesn't make sense.

[@darkebluu4400]

You can just ignore the pp or the ranking side of things maybe and try to have fun that way?

[@gloomygl]

@@darkebluu4400 not how I work

[@binifiedd]

My guy is spittin g

[@over_loadcode]

As a long time osu! player, I agree with everything you said here (except variable OD), especially combo scoring. There are a few things I would like to add. - NOTELOCK: osu! has a mechanic where if you're trying to hit a note but the previous note is still able to be hit, it won't let you hit the next note until you go back and hit the previous. The problem with this is that if you miss a note during a stream either due to misaiming or mistapping, the game won't let you hit the next note until you go back and hit the first one -- which the stream is too fast to allow. Then you technically missed the second note as well, meaning you can't hit the third note either, etc., etc. until you miss the entire stream and fail. So when missing on a stream, you have two choices: either halt your cursor movement and mash as soon as you realize you notelocked in order to try and get into the 50 window, then increase your tapping speed until you've caught up with the stream again (nearly impossible when playing at your upper bound, you might as well wait for a kickslider) or miss the entire stream and fail. Don't worry though, if the HP drain is over 8 you'll probably have failed anyway. - Sliderends drain HP: in osu! you don't fail when your health bar reaches 0, you fail when you miss and your health is either at 0 or the damage from the miss brings your health to 0. This was added to prevent maps like happy30's Desire Drive and AugoEidEs from failing players out during the final spinner due to their high HP drain (which actually happened, all the time). The problem with this is that sliderends are also counted towards depleting HP. As you may probably know, the osu! community doesn't give sliderends nearly the weight of circles and sliderheads because they don't break combo. So usually when you die due to a sliderend it usually feels completely unfair. But that isn't all: if you underaim a slider and miss a sliderhead AND a sliderend, the game acts like you missed 2 circles, usually meaning a fail on HR. I have a clip where I SSd up to 300 combo with HR, then overaimed on a fast kickslider pattern and missed two sliders, instantly failing. - Lazer Changes: My man peppy decided it would be a good idea to have missing a sliderend break combo in lazer (osu!lazer, the new osu build probably never coming out). As we know, the osu! community basically doesn't care about sliderends when discussing plays unless the player missed like 50, it's just thought of as a subset of accuracy. So the community flips the fuck out, as they should to someone making radical gameplay changes to a 12-year-old rhythm game, and the change is reverted. Something like a week later, peppy pulls a 180 and says you no longer need to hit sliderends at all, and that they only drain HP. This is a catastrophic gameplay change, unlike the first one which only makes players follow sliders more strictly, players now don't have to follow sliders at all. To add insult to injury, peppy adds this map osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1061947#osu/2223745 that was full of massive high velocity sliders to a tournament thing that was being held in lazer, and streams were full of people cheesing all of the fast sliders by clicking only the sliderhead and not getting punished. - Sliderend Judgement on High SV: SV stands for Slider Velocity btw. Normal sliderends judge player hits by testing if the player is still following the sliderball slightly before the sliderend at a slightly earlier time as opposed to testing if the player is following the sliderball directly at the sliderend when the sliderend is hit. This allows players to do all kinds of crazy stuff like kicksliders, dropping sliders early to go to the next note, all that good stuff (I'm probably making this sound like a bad mechanic so far, this part of it is actually really good, fun and allows for mapper expression and stuff). The problem arises when high SV sliders have their judgements placed a fair amount before the end, so following the sliderball while rushing at all will likely have you end up with a 100. Also, when cheesing technical sliders with an unrealistic shape/speed to follow, you have to wait a bit before the sliderend and you sort of have to guess at where the end judgement could be which is annoying.

[@test-tl8dt]

all very true. all the leaderboard nonsense is the most annoying aspect in osu in my opinion because i like playing for leaderboards for the most part.

[@ChorusKids]

HP Drain - I personally hated this too when I started playing Ouendan, but I grew to be fine with it. Of course that isn't the mark of a good system so yeah. Hard Rock and Hidden give same score multiplier - The real question is why are the score multipliers so low? Hidden should be 1.2x and Hard Rock should be 1.4x at least. Score vs PP on leaderboard - What matters is the rank and score. I don't know what PP is and I don't care. S rank and high score = good. Combo Scoring - Personally I’m fine with this. I can say having every song have the same max score is much more boring (cough cough Cytus). As a system mechanically though? Yeah I can't really defend it. HP and Timing Window vary based on Map - ok yeah this's just stupid.

[@ChorusKids]

oh yeah and osu! controls like shit and isn't fun at all as a result k thanks bye

[@shadowzyx3505]

"I don't want to have to readapt my timing between different maps" is also relevant for Taiko and that "speed based on bpm" stuff

[@dat_one_axolotl]

video idea: "weird faces in rhythm games"

[@lia6771]

Corrections: - in Score v2, HR gives 1.10x multiplier and HD still gives 1.06x, so at least they're aware. - also, HDHR doesn't give the same multiplier as DT, because it doesn't round - the multiplier is slightly bigger at 1.1236, which means HDHR SS plays can snipe any non-HD DT plays in leaderboards

[@jole9182]

love the energy in this one

[@KudosK42]

HR should be +0.8 or .10 in combo multiplier. And HD should be +0.4 or 0.2

[@hanel6662]

Various od is a good thing cuz this is a parameter set by mapper individually on each map according to how hard it is to hit notes accurately. Newer players would be discouraged to play if they were required to hit notes as accurately as top players

[@vynmo6114]

By far the thing about osu I hate the most is Hidden. Hidden is probably my favorite mod, I look up to Hidden players like Okinamo and SecretBox, I play it with HR, DT, or just by itself because Hidden is aesthetically pleasing, but there's no way it should add .06 combo multiplier, it makes it so a play like Aricin's DT o'er the flood play not even be on the leaderboard because it gets overshadowed by HDHR SS', Idke's Uta HR #5 on the leaderboard, and even Whitecat's ROR HR getting sniped by Okinamo's 99.93 with hidden, when it's easier to get high accuracy with hidden because the default OD is only 9 unlike 10 with HR. DT only deserves a lower leaderboard spot than HDDT, but the fact that DT-only can get sniped by HDHR is the most stupid part of osu to me. In a perfect world, Hidden would be worth .03 combo multiplier while keeping the pp values for Hidden the same, but that's probably never going to happen.

[@volchonokilliR]

there is mod filter for scoreboard which helps with such things

[@thepiggie6790]

i agree with the hidden and hr same multiplier thing sure hr gives mroe pp than hidden but HIDDEN HARDROCK SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BEAT A DT SCORE IF BOTH SCORES ARE PERFECT WITH NO SPINNER IN THE MAP

[@7kenjoyer]

I forgot to mention that different ODs were made for std in the first place. Mania came out way later. You can't set the 'scroll speed' you want like in mania and that's why low AR maps (like beginner maps) in std must have low OD (and HP?). Even if you take a top player they won't get as good unstable rate on low AR maps as on AR they're comfortable with the most. That's like setting a low scroll speed and trying to maintain the same ratio. I am on osu's side with this one. Also getting low UR in std is harder naturally because you also have to aim with your other hand and sync it with the first hand + reading in std is different from 4k. When I didn't even have a year experience with 4k I already could get URs I wouldn't get in std that easily even though I've played std for much longer. That's why I think having the same timing window is not a good idea for std. It's either beginners will be absolutely destroyed or top players will be very bored. I think the OD should be set by the ranking criteria depending on the difficulty of the map. Afaik it already kinda is but I am not sure if this is strict enough. Also you can tell how good this criteria is when a lot of good maps remain unranked forever and some questionable stuff gets ranked including low effort pp maps Tbf I don't see anything wrong with different ODs HPs and the fact they are set by the mapper. I agree that sometimes HP is too high and you can't pass a map when you can get a relatively decent score on it. In mania it can be even worse. Anyone who has played with HP10 knows what I am talking about. You have to hit several dozens of notes just to recover from a single miss or two. If this is not a top level map then it will take a lot of time to do that due to the NPS value. High HP on LN maps also sucks. Same goes to "getting punished for doing nothing" in std About "why does score not represent pp/skill". Even if it was the way you want it to be there's still a mod called flashlight that doesn't give much pp bonus but it surely deserves at least 2nd biggest score buff. Some players use FL to get high up on the map because they can't do DT instead yet. pp won't be the same when you look at HDFL vs HDDT but both deserve a spot high up there. I hope everyone understands that FL is not a free mod. It takes a lot of time to set a score unless they abuse something

[@aizuuya]

Especially in osu!lazer, you literally die Instantly even if you are ssing a map. Oh you get one 100? You're dead.

[@sillygoosechinachina]

I'll never play Osu! seriously bc after playing rhyhtm games with good ex scoring i just can't grind or compete in a game with combo based scoring

[@logsupermulti3921]

I think HP drain is just a leftover relic from Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan. It made more sense in that game I think because of the lower difficulty of charts, playing competitive Osu! charts on a DS touchscreen doesn't sound fun.

[@wabi3958]

Osu! Hire this man hes spittin fax

[@noatoad]

Big annoyance for me is in the editor when you want to change slider velocity you have to mess with the timings. Why the hell isn’t it just “drag slider end to desired timing on timeline” and instead just makes it bounce back. Annoying desin

[@petey5009]

These 5 things are the things I despise about osu, you said what I've always wanted to say for years

[@jericho-w4i]

combo scoring🤮🤮 acc scoring 💪😎

[@Ocklepod]

0:50 it conveniently DOESNT add up to the same multiplier, hd and hr are 1.06x each and 1.06^2>1.12 and no dt is exactly 1.12, hdhr is 1.1236. i know this because i struggled to defeat hdhrfl with dtfl and had to go hdhrdtfl, so i checked and hdhr>dt on 0 spinner maps SS

[@ampersand64]

I agree with everything you said.

[@warguy6474]

hd vs hr score multiplier is fixed in score v2

[@Kelvin0032]

5 more things in osu! Doesn't make sense to me 1. Notelock 2. Spinners 3. Big Cursor size doesn't affect the hitbox of a hitcircle 4. Overweighted TV sized maps 5. HP drain and pass with less than 50% acc

[@ddream296]

about point 3... why would it affect hitcircle hitboxes?

[@yyonn7966]

Yeah I fxcking hate the pp fixation on combo

[@ent.8764]

the fact that higher score determines whether a play gives PP or not is the reason i have a 436pp play with SO

[@MyRockie]

The hp drain part is actually the mappers fault

[@communistkanna5397]

I can somewhat agree to the entire video except the OD part

[@femteau8145]

I cannot wait for score v2

[@rizkimramdani]

delete rank system/ pp system.

[@SuicidalGrind]

I heavily disagree on some of the very late points, but hp drain on things where you're not even missing and HR being the same as HD I definitely agree on being scuffed. Good video though.

[@cheesewizvevo]

I’m pretty sure they both nerfed hidden and hard rock multiple times and forgot to change the number of score multiplier in the menu

[@SuicidalGrind]

@@cheesewizvevo I love game designers 👍

[@cheesewizvevo]

@@SuicidalGrind nice music

[@user-ey8ki6gd2y]

this it the proof that you often don't need intros in the video and they are redundant

[@Icyshade.]

One thing that makes no sense to me is whoever brought up the idea of sliderbreaks

[@livium1297]

Achktukutckually, hard rock gives like .02x greater score than hidden so yea system fixed your point is wrong bye bye Edit: I apologize for my incorrect statement here, it actually gives .002x the score so yea fixed even more

[@apocalypseap]

That's still too close imo. Hidden really isn't nearly as difficult.

[@xzZZZ799]

hard rock doesnt give more score than hidden at all, but hidden hardrock combined give more score than doubletime because the 2 mods add multiplicatively which is even more stupid

[@oblivion2k490]

That's even dumber than the multipliers being identical, because the decimal multiplier isn't shown in the client in any skin I've ever used. A player wouldn't even know they had different multiplier values unless they were trying to game their way to the leaderboards.

[@DescendDab]

This is why i like playing taiko, the scoring system just makes more sense. Especially with the new pp system, nerfing the way too overweighted maps

[@Yogi-iw6be]

And EZ mod, holy shit that thing is hard as fuck

[@xbomblive8552]

Score V2 is definitely better, I just don’t understand why the score goes down when you miss rather than just keeping it where it is.

[@aoqe]

LOL I was on low hp and a huge slider appeared and I failed the map

[@MMenyan]

surprised notelock didn't make it since that definitely tops anything else

[@MMenyan]

also i think variable timing windows works great for osu!std, it's ar being locked at the map setting rather than you being able to choose that seems a bit nonsensical to me but ig it lets a mapper control the density, unless you out on hr or ez also perhaps less people would go out of their way to challenge their reading skills. or mb more since it'd be easier and they'd be able to push limits more easily in conclusion i like mcosu

[@MMenyan]

but no really there's no fucking reason for notelock to exist like id say spinners have no reason to exist but at least they only very rarely result in a miss and can't kill you for not spinning consistent 450rpm anymore while notelock doesn't even have the excuse of being from the original ds game afaik and exists only bc peppy thought it was a good idea when in reality it's a demon that sucks the soul out of any player that dares play a low od map or misaims one note in a stream leaving their accuracy and miss count in complete ruin and at the mercy of the hp system

[@megative-music]

>HP Drain. Why are you getting punished while nothing happened? Yeah, I don't get this either. It wasn't like you are getting poisoned in RPG games. Or maybe...

[@kzv5468]

I came to Osu! after playing a ton of phone rhythm anime games like love live bang dream etc and at first I was like "wow they are so generous to let me keep my combo even if I get a 50 (mania)" and now I am like "99.9% GIVE ME SS PLEEEEASE"