5 Things to AVOID for Doom Mappers!

[@DoomKid]

A fellow mapper, Joe-Ilya, also made a video of basic tips for new mappers, and the tips are totally different to my own but very useful. Please check it out! kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5y9c6ammcSFbM0

[@joeilya]

Thank you for the plug.

[@snbbit]

I came here from joe's video cause I need to learn :P

[@AposineYT]

#6: Permanently missable secrets.

[@Fuchsia_tude]

The original episodes had a few. I feel like it's fair as long as it's foreseeable and triggered by the player in an intentional way--a switch, not a walk-over linedef trigger, for instance. Think of the soul sphere lift in E1M4.

[@ButcherGrindslam]

@@Fuchsia_tude More like "The Chasm" where secrets were placed in most "obvious" places.

[@lilwyvern4]

Looking at Monster Condo's timed secret.

[@axa993]

I see those as a nice extras when I've mastered the levels and want to push myself to explore the level even further.

[@mastermind4499]

@@Fuchsia_tude I actually like some interesting secrets like if you walk a random sidedef but you can actually hear that something nearby is opening (maybe in a room behind you) I don't like obvious secrets, impossible to get secrets (4th episode are full of them). And I love when map makers make maps with secrets that vary by difficulty (hope I said it right)

[@agenttassadar7272]

Lighting is key for setting the mood and environment of a level. I hate levels that use the default light settings throughout. I can spend hours playing with the light levels.

[@DoomKid]

Agreed, good lighting adds so much to a map.

[@stigrabbid589]

That is one of the best things about Ultimate Doom Builder, if you make a ZDoom map you can easily put in advanced PSX/Doom 64 style lighting, like have it be brighter near the light source and darker further from it. I built a few maps with lighting that looks somewhat realistic using that feature.

[@HexenStar]

The problem is that accelerated ports don't display darkness levels all that well or immersive. Everything looks the same and boring: either like midday sun or near pitch black. Just take a look at those "modern" ports of Blood, Powerslave, or Doom. (as a big fan of 'Blood', i find these disgusting, Dosbox only) Software rendering, on the other hand - now that makes shadowing that is extremely immersive and is aesthetically becoming. That unique effect where textures and sprites would change the way they look by replacing colors with black and greys, depending on the viewing distance - it was top notch. To this day i claim it to be the best visual effect of all time. Closely followed by colored & dynamic lighting.

[@Average-Cacodemon-Enjoyer]

Yeah, I want thinking once and made a level with a cave in it and forgot to change the lighting in the cave. I didn't notice at the time, but after a while I decided that "hold on caves aren't bright" and it looked beautiful

[@fartzerelli1385]

Can we stop and acknowledge the fact this game is over 25 years old and someone is making level design videos on KZbin. What a great game!

[@tarrker]

I stopped to make some additional points to the video and... yeah. Not gonna lie, it kinda hit me. I remember some of my stuff being featured in one of those book/CD combos back in the day called "Tricks of the Doom Gurus". If you told me then that I'd still be talking about making maps for the original DOOM games or that there would still BE Doom games being made in 2020 I'd never believe you. LoL :)

[@chrisbailey7384]

It's a pretty underrated game. Games these days are just shovelware crap with microtransactions. Console gaming today is just simply mobile/tablet Play Store games ported to the said consoles. There is absolutely no originality to any of the games today.

[@harmleyten4]

@@chrisbailey7384 ok... totally disagree with you there

[@harmleyten4]

@@chrisbailey7384 doom is not underrated nor is it overrated, and have you ever played any mobile games? They suck, and there are a lot of great console games. Games cost a lot more money to produce these days so some people high up try to make as much as possible wich sometimes isn't done the right way i at least agree with that but not all of em.

[@SpringDavid]

It's easily modable so...

[@ZoofyZoof]

"Don't create inescapable traps." Doom 1: "I'm gonna do it before anyone else"

[@thornX01]

plutonia: *laughs in death*

[@lionocyborg6030]

Marathon: "Hold my beer."

[@tarrker]

LoL right? Actually his example in the video isn't great. That's really just a death pit. Hardly what I would even call a trap. I mean, if you fall in there it's very much your own fault. x_x

[@lionocyborg6030]

@@tarrker That is right. Suicide traps would involve something like the garbage compactor or sensory deprivation tank in Marathon 1, or that _fucking_ suffocation room in Pathways into Darkness where you need to speed up time with an otherwise completely useless item to survive.

[@annhentaiuser6658]

Damn the pools in the Toxic Refinery.

[@soursugar4867]

You missed one: not allowing players to backtrack after a certain point in a level

[@DoomKid]

I agree, that is pretty irritating

[@AmyraCarter]

Which is original level design mechanics.

[@HexenStar]

I think there are more than that, and the better the map you're making will get - the more of those requirements will make an appearance. But i'd like to mention making battle scenarios based entirely (or predominantly) on teleporting enemies. This gets boring and starts to feel lame very quickly for the player.

[@Gna-rn7zx]

Looking at you, classic Sonic the Hedgehog games...

[@riccardopistillo2173]

@@DoomKid why is it???? i don't know

[@williamsmith666]

Remember, proper "challenging" maps need to include: -Huge and super cryptic stage designs -everything is booby-trapped -absolutely no sense of balance. -200 Revenants -500 Barons -300 Cyberdemons -5 Imps

[@TheLambdaTeam]

If I wanna design a challenging map, I alwayz rely on special conditionz for that level. Requires extra coding? So what. No pain, no gain!!!!!!!

[@henke37]

I think there is a limit on the number of "things" the game can handle in one level.

[@TheLambdaTeam]

@@henke37 This is why I use GzDoom. I _hate_ limits. I really do.

[@MondySpartan]

How to create your own Plutonia.

[@þegðak]

I use inspiration from Go 2 It.

[@horus158]

Good video! Personally I think monster substitution is underrated as a difficulty balancing tool though. Cutting too many enemies can make a map feel empty on lower difficulties. But if you instead rely more on substituting stronger enemies for weaker ones, then that isn't the case.

[@DoomKid]

Excellent point, replacing Barons with Hellknights or Arch-Viles with Revenants (just for two examples) will make the easier skill players not feel lonesome while wandering through the maps.

[@Allstin]

This is a solid idea, that way they still get the experience

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

There's something you can criticize Doom 64 about, on skill 3 and 4, it's great, but on skill 2 the game is very barren, I dread how empty it would be on skill 1. It's much better to tone down traps and as you say, substitute monsters, because a map with very little combat for the duration of its play will just not be very fun.

[@Treblaine]

It's not just switching to lower tier enemies it's the homogeneity. The least experienced players most struggle when they have to deal with multiple different types of enemies at the same time. So swapping out 1 pinky + 1 chaingunner to 2 pinkies can be easier, the novice struggles with target prioritisation sk_easy should be for people who've literally never played Doom before, it should teach how to play the game. It should give them only one enemy challenge at a time and also give them a narrower selection of weapons so they learn one weapon at a time. Your wad on sk_easy should effectively teach a novice how to play doom by slowly teaching them how each weapon works against each enemy then only very belatedly how to fight two different enemies at once. sk_baby should teach someone who's never played a video game before.

[@alexlokanin3312]

Something to watch out: a zombieman, while weaker than an imp, actually has an easier time damaging the player because he's a hitscanner and can instantly shoot the player from afar. There are so many intricacies in Doom's combat!

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

I think you're forgetting one that a lot of people may ignorant and nonchalant about; if you're making a Vanilla or Boom map, you can NOT just test it with GzDoom and call it a day, you MUST test it the relevant source ports, I had to learn that the hard way.

[@DoomKid]

A really good point, I definitely should have mentioned the importance of testing in the intended port.

[@randomname647]

+ You get these annoying Node errors

[@lev7509]

I'm creating a Vanilla map and testing it in Crispy. I also have the original .EXE and DOSBox, which I use more rarely, usually when done with an entire part of the map.

[@jforce109]

🎉thanks for the advice. 🤷🏻‍♀️Hopefully I’ll get a good map going combining John Romero’s level design rules with the tips you have given.😊

[@voneror]

Personally I like using narrow corridors in combination with imps and pinkies. Obviously not for entire level, but a section or two before you get proper weapons. My tip would be: 1. You can use sectors to make small symbols/letters/numbers on the floor to designate areas of the map or to tell player which switch activates which object. Especially useful if switch activates something that is very far away. 2. Using soundblockers and ambush monsters can give you quite a decent control of engagement if used properly.

[@Allstin]

I could see all of these applying to modern Doom, as well

[@lyokianhitchhiker]

In this context, are we talking "modern PWADS designed with source ports in mind" or Doom 2016/Eternal?

[@bigbunko]

@@lyokianhitchhiker Hopefully the the first choice cuz applying this to 2016 and Eternal wouldn't make much since

[@rdowg]

I just hope that people start making custom maps instead of just rearranging enemies, if it's even possible to screw with the map

[@Allstin]

Rd owg in Eternal? There has been custom geometry added but not brand new maps. Another thing is existing arenas have been re worked to be new experiences

[@DoomWar1]

Allstin! How goes it?

[@petargolem1104]

"No ultra-thin hallways" - Haha, is that Hell Revealed in the background? SSG vs Barons in thin hallways...

[@Fuchsia_tude]

Looks like a quick demo map the author whipped up, since they showed it being built right after that

[@AmyraCarter]

No ultra-thin hallways unless you're the cramped hallways and monster closets of the original games.

[@JonCombo]

He was managing to dodge the shots in there.

[@edherdman9973]

@@JonCombo It can be done, but is it really satisfying gameplay just to be tapping left and right? One of my problems with DOOM is that a lot of enemies are damage sponges on UV and that can make fights tedious. Removing your ability to do anything but dodge and shoot only the enemy in front of you arguably makes that worse.

[@WaterCrane]

To build on #4, one little rule of thumb I go by is that you should be able to complete the level fairly comfortably on Hurt Me Plenty without getting any of the secrets. So if you need to find that hidden Megasphere just to have a fighting chance of completing the map on HMP, it's probably too hard.

[@AmyraCarter]

Definitely too hard.

[@WaterCrane]

On another note, it's also a good way to showcase a level on, say, a KZbin video without giving away where the secrets are hidden!

[@HexenStar]

That depends on how hard that Megasphere is hidden. If it can be fairly easily located if the player is observant and does not do one of those kamikaze playstyles, - then it's fine. But if it requires you to solve some pixel-hunt nonsense hidden by the Da Vinci code-encrypted puzzle of 12 switches and 5 keys (one of which the dev invented just to hide that very Megasphere), then yes - it's too much. I always advocate to test if the major battles can be consistently won (even damage-free, at best), with the right tactics in place (as opposed to luck or keyboard acrobatics), and be just as equally deadly for the absent minded rush shotgun-blazing. Imho.

[@endless_doom5337]

Despite not being a mapper myself, something that I have always find important and fundamental for the overall quality of the map, is monster/demon placement. Is not only about having lots of demons, but also about positioning them in ways that the work better for the overall flow of the map. This includes team combos (like the pinky and heavy gunner shown on the video) and the way you make your map work alongside the enemies. Let's say you have a square room with four sniper-nest towers on each corner. What demons do you use in that room? For UV you could put one revenant in each tower, or two revenants and two shotgunners (I hate revenants so yeah) and for lower difficulties you could replace them with simple former humans or imps. Now that only leaves the central area, what do you put there? A huge bloat of the same type of demon can be boring, but a well selected team of demons makes the map feel much more alive and dynamic. I will always say that demon positioning is as important as any other factor. A good example of great level design that takes into account enemy positioning is E4M1.

[@DoomKid]

You could be a fantastic mapper with your knowledge, Endless. Great comment.

[@HexenStar]

You're absolutely right. That's called battle design. Having that said, E4M1 - is an example of bad design. Mission packs for Quake II, on the other hand - offer a genuine master-class on enemy combinations.

[@BrazenBard]

...Oh, man, I haven't made Doom maps in twenty years, but now I suddenly have a weird urge to refresh those skills...

[@BiodegradableYTP]

Make sure to share the results over on Doomworld!

[@BrazenBard]

@@BiodegradableYTP I'd need to dig out an editor first. One that runs on Win10... and see if I find my old copies of the games; I think I saved'em on a CD somewhere, before I disposed of my last computer to have a floppy drive...

[@JamieBainbridge]

To explain your #2 more: Create landmarks. People navigate in the real world by looking for unique places to orient themselves in space and direction. Create similar unique navigation tokens in your maps.

[@KopfTrommel]

I'm going to make a Doom level set using all of these just to see how bad they can be.

[@coriandercastor9453]

Could be a good learning experience.

[@CuteQube]

I'm willing to play it when you are done

[@KopfTrommel]

@@CuteQube I tried making one level and already it's absolutely frustrating. But maybe I'll finish them one of these days

[@CuteQube]

@@KopfTrommel just link it here when you are done, cause I'm still willing lmao

[@KopfTrommel]

@@CuteQube Will do man! it may be another month or two, but I'll work on it

[@underthepale]

I've got one, but it's more of an advanced lesson: BE CONSISTENT WITH YOUR DOORS. If there's a door you can open with USE, have all instances of this door's texture (at least in the same map) also be opened with USE. Conversely, if it cannot be opened with USE, instead requiring a linedef or switch? Have all doors using this texture also require the use of switches or linedefs. This comes up a lot in maps, and it drives me insane. There's a lot of door textures! You don't have to stick to one or two!

[@AlexanderWilithinIII]

I haven't done much DOOM mapping, but I've put together one or two maps just to try out Doom Builder, and following Romero's level design guidelines really helped. 1. Always change floor height when changing floor textures. 2. Use border textures between different wall segments and doorways. 3. Be strict about texture alignment. 4. Use contrast between light and dark areas and cramped and open areas. 5. Make sure if the player can see outside, they can get there. 6. Be strict about having several secret areas in each level. 7. Make levels flow so that the player revisits areas to better understand the 3D space. 8. Create several easily-recognizable landmarks for easier navigation.

[@DoomKid]

Good guidelines!

[@Grymyrk]

#5 was one of John Romero's design principles from when creating the original levels.

[@edzeppelin1984]

Also: If you're going to cut the player off from backtracking, then at least signal this to the player in some way; Secrets should be signalled enough that a diligent player can spot them on a first playthrough without having to be psychic; Forced backtracking should be worth the player's while, either by offering new monsters or items, or just by making clearer the topology of the level; It should be clear to the player what the switch they just hit did; Unless extreme non-linearity is the point, if the player encounters a red key before the red door, you didn't need a red door; If you're going to make a complex map, play fair and include a computer area map somewhere; A la John Romero, use decor as navigation waymarkers, and use windows and open spaces to both tease future parts of the level and provide something for the player to orient themselves with.

[@edherdman9973]

A good simple way of signalling the end of backtracking is an ornate teleporter nook...or a tall drop into another part of the map.

[@HexenStar]

Beg to differ regarding the red key / red door scenario. It will make sense if you want that key conquered in battle and for the player to not be able to enter that door, before the said key is conquered. Can be used in multi-layer battle scenarios, making sure the player does not wimp out and run away with tail between legs into the next section of the level. Instead, has to stay and fight enemies to get the reward, a key in this case. I make this an obligatory staple in my maps: prevent players wimping out and running away from combat. Force speedrunners to either cheat with "noclip" and run, or stay and fight like a Doomslayer should. (even though i map for Hexen, not Doom)

[@rohitchaoji]

I'm still new to mapping, but here's another one that can make or break a map's appearance: Try not to have too many sharp, pointy-edged sectors, especially if they are walls. Especially long, triangular pointed edges. Add some more vertices to the linedefs around it and blunt it out. Especially if you're aiming to get an appearance of natural cave/rock style walls.

[@croppedrocket3383]

that symmetry part is gonna be hell of alot hard for me to break from. Alot of them always have me just deleting the map to do again.

[@Urmrgay955]

#6: don't make unescapeable rooms or don't force the player to use cheats to go back and get the full level. It gets really annoying sometimes.

[@themisterdellou]

#7*

[@KhasAdun1990]

I made a maze-like area out of skinny tunnels and cool lighting full of monster closets, the cool part is as more demons were revealed the room opened up organically, making the space easier to fight in. I felt like John Wick fighting in that area.

[@ChosenOne41]

I'd say also just avoid putting any long stretches of damaging floor that requires a rad suit to get through. The first time through is fine but if you get lost and have to backtrack the rad suit will be gone and you will take a bunch of unavoidable damage. For secrets this is fine but putting this as a part of the main path is always so damn annoying for me.

[@HexenStar]

I'll second that!

[@amaruqlonewolf3350]

These sort of toxic stretches best suits Duke Nukem 3D's level design, since the boots are only activated when walking on a damaging floor instead of being timed like Doom's.

[@Steambull1]

Good list. I think most maps released today avoid the small hallways TOO MUCH, just making huge areas that you run around for 10 minutes to get the infighting done. Small corridors, especially somewhat dark ones, are part of the original Doom experience - with moderate use and the right enemies, they definitely have their place. As for the symmetry, it's probably my most voiced level design concern in any game. I remember trying to give this advice to my friend on 7th grade, as every one of his maps for a certain DOS game was perfectly symmetrical from every corner. Plutonia has so many maps where the whole layout is based on a symmetric middle area with key doors to north, east, south and west - I absolutely hate that and it feels like the laziest, least thought-out way to create a level. Something I don't like, but seems to be accepted by others, is the *excessive* use of trimming textures and details based on the pixels of the floor / ceiling texture. It's like trying to trick people into thinking that a lot of thought went into the map, even if the actual layout sucks.

[@Superintendent_ChaImers]

This is a point on your mention about making maps with inescapable traps. And mentioning that dying can put you back to a pistol. ALWAYS make sure your maps can be beaten from a pistol start. It's the golden rule that makes the classic doom levels and map maps like Extermination Day, Maps of Chaos, Plutonia, TNT and Doom 64 maps stand out even by modern standards.

[@amaruqlonewolf3350]

Not quite to be honest. Being able to beat a map from pistol start essentially shits on any sort of level progression in difficulty there might be. Maps that're stringed together as one campaign suffer tremendously if you're doing that sort of BS.

[@Superintendent_ChaImers]

That depends... It's good practice to make your maps with Co-op in mind. And with coop gameplay you need to set it so that it can be beaten with a pistol start. It also makes it so that there is a reason to explore the maps to find secrets etc because those secrets would contain weapons or ammo that can help you immensely with the rest of the map. @@amaruqlonewolf3350

[@spiceforspice3461]

@@amaruqlonewolf3350 Not really, it mostly just boils down to making sure to add weapon pickups in every map so you aren't stuck fighting a cyberdemon with a pistol. A weapon pickup is equivalent to two small ammo pickups, so it shouldn't be hard to replace two small ammos with a weapon, or give a decent weapon at the start of a map. It really doesn't throw off the balance of most levels at all.

[@Aleteos]

I've found that if you want to make small claustrophobic tunnels, a low ceiling is just as effective as narrow walls, but won't impede movement. I would make hallways no narrower than 128 mu. Also, as has been stated in other comments, lighting is key.

[@eduardodiaz9942]

I would add a sixth tip: ALWAYS allow players to backtrack to the rest of the level once they've reached the exit. This is actually one of my pet peeves, since I like to aim for 100% secrets and kills.

[@majamystic256]

I like that idea

[@DoomKid]

That's a very great point

[@ikagura]

Isn't it one of Romero's rule?

[@TheLambdaTeam]

In 99% of cases, backtracking is important, ye. On special mission levelz, one-way trip is excusable but the player must be warned 'bout this.

[@1pcfred]

The point is to save Earth. Stay focused!

[@BiodegradableYTP]

Once again, the Kid is here to show you how it's done. Given your extensive years of experience in mapping, this is one of the best videos you could possibly make for the community, my friend. Just jammed packed with helpful advice. Even in the 3 months where I've been exploring beginner maps, I've been noticing the recurring mistakes you addressed fairly often in them. Skinny hallways! DISGUSTING! I hate them, they're awful and make the combat boring. Making Doom boring should be a crime! lol. I look forward to linking this to newbies on Doomworld whenever they're looking for advice on how to improve their maps. Excellent stuff, fam.

[@DoomKid]

Thanks a ton, Bio!

[@tw4ve]

No skinny hallways is good. I never making maps for casual players. You try to make an kid's casual modern shooter from doom, its sucks.

[@faceheadman]

Symmetry really does kills the mood for me in most maps, and over use of samey detailed tech bases is exactly what I was thinking of too hah

[@DoomKid]

I've made "samey tech bases" one too many times in my life, I must admit...

[@dsc5595]

I bet you don't like BTSX Episode 1...

[@TheLambdaTeam]

Symmetry is only acceptable for arena-like levels (MAP07: Dead Simple), or special Mirror Rooms-themed levelz.

[@linhero797]

This is a more advanced design tip for me but. Levels themes are not static. A tech base has a lot of variety in what it can be and how it can play. And never is a static thing. Too many mapsets make levels that follow the exact same subtheme without really breaking out into the real meat these themes have. Doom has given us Tech Base City Hell Natural Industrial We have so many options for sub categories in what these maps can be. Experiment a little. One of my favorite maps I had ever played was a tech base where the game flipped it's lid and went crazy with teleporter that when the player went through turned the map in a variety of ways and had the player solving puzzles through it. And this was all done in Vanilla Doom.

[@DBUP-l8h]

I always mess with height levels in rooms. Putting a bit of a dip in a floor or raising a section of the floor slightly. I typically build what I like to see and what kind of maps I'd like to play. Been a while since I've done any mapping and I am getting the itch big time! But my computer is out of commission. I really need to get that fixed so I can start mapping again. I lost months worth of work when it crashed. Not the first time that has happened either.

[@AlexeiVoronin]

I'd love to make Doom maps, but I really lack the patience to add detail and flesh them out :P BTW, the Memento Mori music is a really nice touch.

[@ikagura]

I kinda like some of the narrow corridors in Plutonia but I agree, sometimes it's nice to leave some space for you and the demons. Ultraviolence has become the de facto normal mode for the Doom community but I agree, you should allow people to take a break from that difficulty.

[@1pcfred]

If they want a break they can always play on Nightmare.

[@Opanker_]

@@1pcfred I don't think that's what break means

[@1pcfred]

@@Opanker_ words often have many meanings. In one definition break means an interruption. Nightmare will certainly put a kink in anything too.

[@Opanker_]

@@1pcfred If words have many meaning then many meanings have words therefore the words are actually lacking meanings

[@1pcfred]

@@Opanker_ words represent mental constructs. Words mean what we think they mean. Just as long we happen to be right.

[@urrova8261]

I sometimes make unescappable traps, but i put the sector special 115, that is instant-death. I only use this on ZDoom ports, on vanilla/boom i put teleporters or stairs on nukage pits. And is better to use border textures like SUPPORT3 or variants like SUPPOR12, or a LITE texture, is literally a romero rule :)

[@ancientmadness-rlk]

Plan ahead what you want to make. Pencil on paper is good. Start small and make things bigger as needed. Have a list of goals you want to meet when designing. Detail things after you have a general layout. Test relentlessly.

[@HexenStar]

Now that's how you make things right! Looks like we're on the same ID-Tech1 page.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

To your point about avoiding symmetrical levels to avoid confusing players, one thing you could do if you find your level ending up that way is to add unique landmarks in the rooms to distinguish them. Official Doom levels are full of unique structures that only one specific room of a level has.

[@Nat-jf2ge]

First episode of Doom has plenty of great examples of how to make maps.

[@TheAlison1456]

0:34 dude... yes. Thank you for saying this. 0:59 I love this meaning of doomer. Someone who plays doom.

[@bradsmith6662]

Love the Memento Mori music being used in the background. Great WAD from way back in the day (I'm old)!

[@AngelloProduct]

I might attempt making 1 map

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

You should, it's fun!

[@TheLambdaTeam]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Making a Doom map is tedious as hell, no? I mean, ONE medium-sized map takes up months...

[@_meatsoup]

@@TheLambdaTeam It can, for most people a map can take up to a week to complete a single floored classic doom styled map & for the more experienced it can take as long as a few days or if pretty skilled only hours. For entire multi-map wads it can take the average mapper months to complete. That's assuming they have jobs mine you. With experience (and notes), you can eventually make an entire 32 map wad (or megawad) within a couple of months if you build a map one day and texture it the next then repeat until the wad is done. If you plan to take mapping to another level and create your own total conversion (TC) or even make a completely new game within the engine that can take 1 to several years no matter how skilled you are. The more skilled the mapper, the more complicated things get. That's just the way it is.

[@jondell-i1o]

“Inescapable Traps”- The first thought that came to my mind was “The Chasm”😂😂

[@1pcfred]

Worst level ever!

[@1pcfred]

@Heck yeah. the speed runs of it are amazing though. The best is 32 seconds.

[@1pcfred]

@Heck yeah. I think it was someone named Looper

[@retmentos9001]

Man, and I was just thinking of getting back into mapping again. Thanks for the informative video.

[@anthroplant7879]

I've got a trap that looks like an elevator shaft but really just drops you and kills you. I put a warning sign there.

[@majamystic256]

oooo neat, i've been practicing mapping skills for nanowadmo next month while i do know the stuff on this list, its nice to have a fun refresher :3

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

What's nanowadmo?

[@BassSlapper89]

Great video bro. I was worried when I worked on the Jazz Jackrabbit Doom TC I posted on Doomworld. It was my first Doom project and I made sure I made none of these mistakes. It definitely helped in the long run after finding a forum thread of what to avoid when designing a map. Looking forward for more tutorial vids in the future.

[@DoomKid]

That's a great mod by the way!

[@BassSlapper89]

@@DoomKid glad you enjoyed it bro. It's currently getting a polish and new maps added by doomworld member. Looking forward after they're finished.

[@MrGRmask]

#3 is actually one thing that Doom 1 did and did not. in E1M3, there's a large area before the blue key room with hazard ground below. On one hand, dropping in the middle brings up an escape method, but on the other hand, the sides are inescapable. After going through trial-and-error twice, I became way too cautious about that. There's another thing which I personally believe mappers should avoid: Incorrect Damaging floor. I played quite a lot of wads where the damaging floor is inconsistent between maps. For example, Map 01 has a blue lake , meant to be walked on normally, but in Map 02, a very similar blue lake texture is a damaging floor. This is common with large community projects, but it also happens in solo projects. It would be a lot easier if everyone just followed the vanilla logic: "If it looks fluid, beware!" and if it's lava lol

[@bloodwolf2427]

If you intend your map(s) to be compatible with multiplayer (not everyone plays 1 life) don't close off critical sections of the map after the player crosses a linedef for a trap that can never be opened again. RCON nextmap.

[@DoomKid]

An excellent point here! So many Single Player mappers forget this!

[@arcadeguy781]

Number 5 makes me think of the TNT map Habitat. I may make some maps since I really enjoy Doom. Also, step 6: Put a computer area map in your maps. Makes it easier for newer players.

[@HexenStar]

Better yet - make every area of the map distinct enough, - so that it won't need a computer map! That's gold standard in my book. Post-Doom classic FPS were doing that successfully to various degrees. Making more level detail and investing into decorative design is the key.

[@cthulhuchan9587]

I’ve been making Doom maps since 2010 so I’m pretty experienced however it’s always good to refresh yourself on the basics and look at things from other creators perspectives Anyways cool video

[@ButcherGrindslam]

Map should be playable with pistol start. Period. If the level is TOO hard when really not enough ammo, that's designer's problem.

[@TheLambdaTeam]

Playable, yes, but not 100% beatable. Later levels should NOT be that easy that anyone can beat it wit' a pistol and 50 bullets on ANY difficulty on a perfectionist run. That's just ludicrous. This is what secret areas are for.

[@ButcherGrindslam]

@@TheLambdaTeam Let's remember that shitty type of map: "Dis". On the other hand, "Phobos Anomaly", "Tower of Babel", "Unto the cruel" and "Icon of sin" are perfectly playable. DOOM level should be playable with pistol start every time. If you fail and die on later level, you're fucked with that nonsense.

[@1pcfred]

I got your pistol start right here for ya pal.

[@TheLambdaTeam]

@@ButcherGrindslam I guess by the time the creators came to design "Dis", they completely ran dry of ideas.

[@Unit_00]

@@ButcherGrindslam lol literally any level in Doom 1 is quite easy with pistol starts, idk what's your problem with Dis.

[@lexyeevee]

shockingly, if you look at the stock levels, i've found a lot of them have a 1:2:3 ratio of monsters between skill levels - they pretty much removed a third for HMP, then removed another third for HNTR

[@TacosAreWizard]

I’d also say creative enemy placement is a must as well. Doing it well can do wonders in giving a level character.

[@alexcronin2839]

"You may keep your gorgeous symmetrical castles"

[@DoomKid]

ROFL

[@alexcronin2839]

That was a great video, very professional tee hee!

[@alexcronin2839]

You'll become a yub tub star!

[@why_i_game]

Nice video, solid tips. Thanks. I've made Quake levels, but am annoyed with how complicated most modern Quake level editors are (back in the day QOOLE was awesome and easy to use, if a bit buggy). I figured I should try making some Doom levels, it seems a lot easier to get stuff done.

[@TheCecchino98]

For point 4 i'd also suggest replacing existing enemies with weaker ones on lower skills, rather than varying the enemy count too much, as you may also have to change the amount of ammo you give the player

[@dsc5595]

Another great video! I hope you actually make this a series and go even more in depth about map-design, because if there's anyone who knows who's talking about, its you!

[@DoomKid]

Thanks DSC!

[@Crackers0106]

The map you made for the symmetry example looks like it could be fun in deathmatch mode

[@halborunda5084]

Just found your channel pal....and so far i love it! Subbed. Keep the old skool DooM vids comming!

[@DoomKid]

Thanks!

[@carrotmaster8521]

Very helpful, ill make sure to use these for my maps!

[@_antares031]

Every level designer in the world must listen to 2:19

[@DoomKid]

I agree, ever since e1m3 I've hated it!

[@Mutant_Mods]

Great tips from a great mapper! This is very helpful and all the points are so true.

[@DoomKid]

Thank you, Mutant Mods, I appreciate that!

[@GraveUypo]

i'm lazy, so in lower difficulties i increase pickup effectiveness and lower enemy damage instead of removing enemies and increasing the number of available pickups. Ideally I'd replace monsters with a weaker, less aggressive and less mobile variant of themselves for easier difficulties (or the other way around!). i feel that's the most fun way to change difficulties.

[@artyom2801]

"Maps with no escape traps" Chasm with troll invulnerability that just wastes your time and a death pit at the finale:

[@DoomKid]

LOL!

[@artyom2801]

@@DoomKid the only way to not waste your time with invulnerability is to drop down with rad suit and spend a good minute spamming the interact button at a wall, hearing doom guy humping it.

[@Chaingun]

had all those map compliation discs of the 90s lol and they always had that part where you fall in a pit and cannot get out, you just gotta wait for your health to slowly go down in the toxic

[@pschroeter1]

Over the years I've probably played well over a hundred megawads. I've decided the worse criticisms I can level on a map designer is "that wasn't fun" or "that was just frustrating." I will get though 99% of your levels eventually, but if I didn't have fun I don't care how nice it looked. I despise the the maps that make you kill numerous monsters then when you achieve the next objective fill the map with Arch Viles so you have to start over. I also despise small spaces where you are suddenly surrounded by numerous monsters. I have philosophy about map design. You should theoretically be able with careful playing and experience, be able to play through them without relying on scum saving and knowing where the monsters will be before hand. I should also mention I GREATLY appreciate the efforts of all you decent to great map designers who have entertained me for years with a never ending stream of new megawads to play. Winter is coming and I'm thinking of going on the Grand Tour again where I play every megawad I have.

[@dopaminecloud]

A sense of cruelty on part of the map designer is essential in my opinion. Frustration, whether people are willing to admit this or not, is a big factor in enjoyment. It's a fine balance between boring, predictable, easy gameplay and things that feel plain unfair or impossible without foresight. You should be afraid to pick up that key. You should be worried when you see the size of the next room filled with ammo.

[@pschroeter1]

@@dopaminecloud I find your choice of the word "cruelty" to be amusing. I would rather designers went for "challenging." Cruelty says you like to inflict pain just for pain's sake. I agree about seeing a big quiet room full of ammo, I always think "you have been warned."

[@HexenStar]

@@pschroeter1 "Challenging" means that you have to solve a puzzle, a combat puzzle, so to speak. And when you solve it - play it out as a sequence to reliably achieve victory (with some margin of error). "Cruelty", or simply "let's fuck the player up" attitude - is when victory is either random, based on luck or split-second timing while knowing exactly what's coming and holding fire/back already as the room loads. The difference is, that with the former, - you know that picking up that key is dangerous, but you can evaluate your surroundings and come up with a plan, which may or may not work - but will still be at least partially viable, and steps to improve it will become evident. The latter, conversely - lets you know only one thing for certain: you will be cheap-killed. There is no plan. There is only luck, or a combination of luck and knowing what's coming. Even then, victory is random. A time-waster of the worst kind.

[@DoomWar1]

This is pretty cool. I never really had the patience to make doom maps for myself but always wanted to or get someone to make some maps for me, but i may just begin to dabble in the arts soon finally.

[@000adrianelpiola000]

3:45 Sunlust is a good exception of this opinion. A better idea (i think) is "replace" the enemies with a "lower tier variant".

[@andrewmaher9867]

I like the fact that you put habitat on the thumbnail

[@phantomoverseer846]

i have only recently started making maps for doom and ive always wondered what to do and what not to do. really helpful video

[@geroldgrimel4811]

4:45 Your use of music from Momemto Mori tells me that you've played a LOT of Doom wads.

[@The_Nametag]

>2020 >Still fighting the scourge of 1994 levels.

[@DoomKid]

LOL. some things never change!

[@BlazingOwnager]

0:50 I'm a fan of the skinny tunnel fake out. You enter a tight skinny tunnel, fighting melee enemies (like pinkies) then you open up both sides of the tunnel into a later arena with a lot more monsters; several maps have made great use of that one.

[@casual_villain]

As someone who has like just got into mapping. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH! This was so helpful!

[@DoomKid]

I’m glad it was!

[@ProbablyNotAChicken]

About inescapable traps: There's one in a PSX exclusive secret level that you enter on map 29 of 30 titled "The Marshes." It has 4 teleporters and the one closest to spawn takes you to an inescapable room with a crusher ceiling. You don't spawn into it being crushed though; you have to first realize you're trapped and then voluntarily walk into the crusher. It's especially heinous because you're likely to step on that teleporter while dueling the nearby Cyberdemon, and because PSX doom has no saves. You would have made it 29 levels with all your gear, just to lose it all before the final boss fight because of a teleporter you didn't even mean to step into. It's so outrageously cruel that i kinda like it.

[@ScileSc]

for number four you could also customize the difficulties themselfs.

[@dotapark]

This video gives me such a confidence to what I’ve been doing thanks 😊

[@Gato303co]

Nice to find you on YT Doomkid, nice recommendations video, useful tips

[@KokoRicky]

Goatlord here from Doomworld (man I wish I'd picked a different name!). Very very helpful hints. I've been mapping for years but am just now getting to releasing stuff and even now these are good things to keep in mind.

[@DoomKid]

I’m glad you think it’s helpful GL!

[@blakeprocter5818]

What's wrong with Goatlord? It's an awesome sounding name. Makes me think of war metal bands.

[@Trevor6714]

I’m glad you talked about the non escapable pits. I literally just quit whatever I’m playing and fall into a pit. Just like you said haha.

[@DoctorReflux]

The symmetry tip hits home. Was way too obsessive over that back in the day

[@MrEvilbyte]

#7: Able to backtrack at all times (especially from the final area). decino has gotten annoyed when he couldn't backtrack for missed kills and secrets on some maps xD

[@MondySpartan]

Speaking of decino, he’s currently holding submissions for viewer-created maps for this year, which has been ongoing since May came.

[@six3two]

This is pretty sick and helpful, thanks man

[@cacohat]

I don't see anyone talking about mandatory shoot switches. Imagine you finish a level with no ammo, and the next level throws you in, making you shoot a switch to progress. That would make me uninstall the game for sure. **cough** **cough** DOOM64 to DOOM 2 MAP02

[@raptorprimal1077]

Another tip is to make sure to know which mods or not mod version of doom you want it to be played on. Or in other words know if you want it to be played on vanilla doom or mods and even if you want to make it played by vanilla, I'd still try maybe come up with extra little things to stop people using mods from jumping the entire map. Like blocking off a platform so players using mods can't just mantle the wall to skip a part of the map you want players to work for. I understand the o.g maps for doom weren't made for these mods but sometimes it's really tempting to skip a platform in doom with mods that let you double jump and dash. But also on the contrary, if you're a advanced map editor person who's had experience in mapping and 3d floors, maybe you could want try make a map actually for mods with advanced movement coz that could be really fun. I myself made a map with gzdoom builder where there were 3d platforma the player could double jump to to get fun items but also balanced it by making that section have more flying demons so you don't have the player just raining hell from above without consequences. So yeah make sure if you want to keep in mind if you want your map played with mods or not. If not I'd also when uploading it maybe put some note on there saying NOTE - this map is made for vanilla not mods. Highly reccomend playing vanilla. Or opposite. If your map is made for multiple mods or single mod, make that clear too.

[@BluePineapple72]

Sweet video! I love seeing stuff on mapping theory

[@pbFrosty]

#3 Has made me Alt+F4 on many occasions of playing WADS... it's a shame because i've probably missed some amazing WADS in my time.

[@emedi.09]

I just finished Going Down WAD and I loved most of it except the dumb amount of monsters used. The levels are very well designed and the attention to detail on the progression of the levels is amazing, like watching the previous "floor" from a window below or stuff like that. With that said, I feel the excessive amount of monsters take away part of the fun in the levels. You die so often is like a Dark Souls crossover. You have to save every now and then and learn your next move after dying 5 times. More creative monster placement with fewer in each levels can make it fun and challenging at the same time.

[@DoomKid]

It sounds like you’d enjoy playing Going Down way more with “de-grinder”, a mod I made that reduces enemy health. I specifically made it for maps that spam huge amounts of enemies :) (I also agree that Going Down has amazing level design.)

[@harzzachseniorgamer5516]

@@DoomKid Or you can mod the other way. Increase fire power. Playing slaughtermaps with "Russian Overkill" might no longer be a challenge :), but it is such a joy to unleash an energy storm which kills hundreds of enemies in an instant. Best used when having a bad day!

[@glaubertbarros]

Great video, I am making my first map after 25 years of playing Doom, still too much to learn

[@ikonhero]

All very good advices. #5 is really important. It's why I don't like Doom II, because almost everything looks brown there. My favorite episode is the first episode of Doom 1. The level design is so good there (mostly done by John Romero).

[@DoomKid]

I agree than E1 is the best showcase of how to make a "themed" episode, very well designed and consistent, but never boring!

[@ThommyofThenn]

Ive never made a doom map but i've played many wads that commit one or more of the sins you mention here. This was a lot of fun

[@DoomKid]

I'm so late, but thank you!

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@DoomKid Good videos are (potentially) forever! Hope you're well and thanks

[@Chameeleoh]

Very Useful advice indeed! Just getting into mapping for doom, and I for sure made a lot of those mistakes on my first wad. lmao

[@DoomKid]

Glad I could help!

[@Hayden49]

I'd also include "don't make bullshit traps that will instantly kill first time players" and "give the player appropriate weapons for the job"

[@HexenStar]

Nasty traps are acceptable in the final chapters of the game, imho. Or at higher difficulty, or both.

[@METAL1ON]

I have played DOOM from the beginning yet have never attempted to make a map of my own, yet still all of the points you have just raised sat well with me and made me think yep to all of them.

[@jarihaukilahti]

In Duke Nukeem 3D when you killed a monster there were an option to spawn another monster or a drop?? - Well seems I forgot , havent opened the editor in 15 years

[@JamieBainbridge]

Another way to implement difficulty levels is to *add* more health and ammo on the easier settings. That way everyone gets to fight the awesome enemies, and it's more forgiving for players who don't want an intense UV battle.

[@infesticon]

Honestly these are just great level design tips, You coupld aplie most of these to any fps!

[@tarrker]

Solid advice. I have a two points to add, though. Excessive symmetry is fine and can even make some REALLY nice looking maps with less effort. Just make sure that those symmetrical areas are easy to tell apart while navigating the level. Areas that are geometrically identical can appear vastly different if you just make good use of textures, lighting and, entities. Also, I completely disagree with the traps thing. Mostly because of his example, though. Traps you literally CANNOT avoid and can't escape are a no-no unless it's the focus of your map. Like jumping puzzles and such. But the one shown in this video is hardly that, at all. Death pits are a staple of the series and can be a point of contention in the mapping community. But, honestly, having one bordering an area like that is fine. Especially when you have plenty of space to run around without falling in.