550: Demons, Democrats, & Dominionists, Oh My!

[@MLsVoice]

The issue with this podcast is that not enough people are hearing it! I'm enjoying it. You all help me to get a better perspective.

[@hapennysparrow]

The quest for power is the same temptation offered Jesus while on His 40 day fast in the wilderness. When the devil offered Him a short cut to power , He replied," Nope. I'm headed to the cross. " Paraphrased, of course.

[@maryhamric]

Skye really nails it. I grew up in a dispensationalist church. Throughout my adulthood I've been part of the charismatic movement and the Dominionist theology was present amongst other church members (but not preached). I was never comfortable with it and felt it was shifting focus to easier things than loving your neighbor.

[@lish916]

Thank God for you guys!!! I've been a product of religious programming for years. I'm getting freed and your podcast is so helpful.

[@dbrownaz]

My 14yo grandson has EE and survived on a feeding tube product. The research you mention excites me too. Praise God for scientists.

[@bdanielnikolich1]

Holy Cow! Phil can you make some kind of Flow Chart for this twisted theology? I need a visual! I am referring to the seven spheres.

[@richiejohnson]

I'm excited to find this channel. I'm not a believer, but I grew up in the church and I appreciate the honestly, civility, and common sense of your conversations. You have a lot of value to say about the church- political interface in our country. If there is a God may he bless your work 😇👍

[@kathierezek3515]

Amen, Skye! This is why I love this podcast. We have been given minds to think critically and the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth and wisdom. I shudder at the number of Christians who sit in churches and just swallow whatever they are told, then regurgitate it, live by it, spread it, and beat up anyone who questions it. Thank you for being voices of reason and truth.

[@eliaspascoe5108]

Phil: "It's End times cosplay" 😂🤣

[@bdanielnikolich1]

We are proud of Cincinnati’s Children Hospital. It has one of the best reputations in the country! Remember this is the same town that brought you Ivory Soap and Pringles! Sign: The Cincy Kid.

[@hapennysparrow]

Years ago, a man came to a prayer meeting I attended who presented the Seven mountain mandate to the group. I sat there in alarm. I recognized it as the old Dominionism dressed up in different clothes. When Daniel prayed while serving in the Babylonian court he was visited by an angel who told him his prayers had been heard by God, but the Prince of Persia had warned against the angel. Daniel never engaged demonic territorial spirits in spiritual warfare. That job was assigned to the angel. Daniel just intercepted for the people. The last church I attended regularly started out as a fellowship of believers who prayed for and loved each other. The tea Party movement snagged several members, and that was weird, but the pastor never delved into politics. He taught the word of God. Then 2015, and Trump's candidacy roled ip a lot of commotion, and lines were drawn. This church then merged with another church affiliated with Bethel in Redfing. Thats when it went from being weird to insane. I left, because I was seen as demonic, Marxist, whatever, by the very people I had formally prayed with. This Apostolic Reformayionand Seven Miuntain/ Trump worship swallowed this formally loving group alive. They are unrecognizable. Sadly, this has happened all across the nation and been exported around the globe. All of the " prophets,teachers, big names you mentioned were referenced as authorities. Now I fully understand why I was seen as the enemy. Strange times for sure. Thank for a helpful episode. I lam again grateful.

[@alliematt1016]

Cincinnati is also the home of Kroger supermarkets. 🙂

[@JadeousTenerim]

The problem with End-Times cosplay is that the weapons aren't fake and their actions cause irreparable damage.

[@veggiet2009]

Yes, and The weapons they wield though are not what they think they wield Like during 2020 I got into an argument with someone who said that the real threat wasn't COVID was the "spirit of fear" I was like, "okay I think fear is a problem here, but it's ones who are claiming demonic influence or government conspiracy that are actually CAUSING the fear"

[@MLsVoice]

You all are having a good conversation. Can you all do something where we leave a message with 20 seconds of thought? I really like the new format. The only issue I have with it is the same with the previous format - the topics were really good in the conversations and then you all ended them. I'm enjoying and staying open to your discussions.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I remember a sermon on Daniel in regards to spiritual warfare, and the conclusion was one of humility - that we don’t know everything that’s going on. If there is a war between angels and demons we may not even be aware of it. It’s like it’s happening underground on Mars. Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

[@onenessguy85]

You guys hit so many nails on the head you could have built my house

[@stephenwells9224]

Is this for real? Yes Christian, it's pretty prevalent in the US as someone who formerly came out of a church that promoted this theology.

[@benbrown8258]

Yipes! Peter Wagner was one of the author's of the missionary studies I studied for my religion BA. What shook my church attendance just pre-covid was a guest pastor demanding applause and praise that a single man who walked in the neighborhood that worried good christians for simply walking on the sidewalks died. The paster interpreted that as God showing his protection of families! Praise his name... The insinuation I understood was married men in the church are sanctified in the Lord by being faithful family man and single men over a certain age are suspect, immoral and worthy of condemption and death. I'd been faithful, single and actually celibate into my 40's...but that made me feel completely cast out of the Reformed tradition I'd been a part of for over 20 years. Meeting later with other members of that church, most (married) couldn't recall those statements. A single woman in the group spoke up and said she remembered that and had been puzzled. I remember the clapping and loud cries of praise.

[@Qtini]

Christian really didn't understand just how high up that balloon was. There was never going to be a towing option.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

There are aircraft that go that high, but they tend to be too fast to tow things.

[@reenchanted]

My favorite moment this morning was this exchange. Phil: Next, let’s do some animal news… Christian: **squealing with happiness** Phil’s: … where we ask ourselves whether or not scientists should be growing human digestion tracts inside living mice. Christian: What?

[@bethrossiter1857]

😁

[@MARKPEDERSON1]

Furthermore there are us Pastors that preach the truth. I would have to argue that real expository preaching will change lives and make people disciples of Jesus

[@23Hiya]

My understanding is that Catholics do refer to Mary as the queen of heaven. They do it because the queen in ancient Israel seems to have been the king's mother. Jesus is enthroned in heaven + Mary is his mother = queen of heaven.

[@patrickc3419]

Coming from a Roman Catholic background, prior to being saved I can assure you that Catholicism is not Christianity, for that reason you gave as well as a plethora of others.

[@23Hiya]

@@patrickc3419 With all due respect, I don't trust your assessment of Catholicism.

[@patrickc3419]

@@23Hiya Don’t then. Do whatever you want. I am telling you that Purgatory, veneration, transubstantiation, venial and moral sins, etc are man made inventions by the Church of Rome. Found nowhere in the Bible. Catholicism, like Mormonism, Islam, etc. is a works-based religion.

[@23Hiya]

@@patrickc3419 I spent ten years in a reformed Evangelical church in the Chicagoland area, so I know quite well how many ex-Catholics come to think about Catholicism after joining Protestant churches. The criticisms those folks offered were almost universally simplistic and self-serving. I don't know you, but since the type criticism you offer reminds me those folks, here are just two examples of why I don't trust your assessment: Transubstantiation: If you read Against Celsus you'll find that in the second century Christians are already being accused of cannibalism. They taught something like transubstantiation before there was a Christian Bible, before there was the Church of Rome. So the earliest Christians whose beliefs and practices were the standard by which the New Testament was assembled taught something like transubstantiation. To my mind, it is unbelievably arrogant to say that the first generation of Christians were doing Christianity incorrectly. And off the charts arrogant to follow that up with the claim that we now do it right in our suburban megachurch 2000 years removed from those earliest believers. Purgatory: This is a perfectly logical doctrine if you assume that God cannot be in the presence of sin. Not even the most upright human is sinless and so there must be some kind of process by which people are made capable of entering the presence of God. Technically you're right this is extra-Biblical, but its not in contradiction with anything in the Bible. In contrast, the over spiritualized heaven that was preached from the pulpit in my church is actually directly contradicted by the Bible those folks claimed to cherish and respect. Man made inventions plague every corner of the Christian tradition. Catholics are not unique in this way. Furthermore, unless you believe in a very direct form of Biblical inspiration, which is also extra Biblical, then we have to admit that the Bible is in part man made. People had to deliberate and decide which texts best represented the teaching of the Apostles. I don't want write an essay so I'll stop there with just a couple examples. I have nothing against you. As I said I don't know you at all, but the type of criticisms you offer are just like the ones I'm familiar with and I think that they're weak criticisms that further divide the church for no good reason. Take care.

[@patrickc3419]

@@23Hiya 👍👋

[@Cyrribrae]

I'm a bit surprised you guys are so surprised over the animal news segment. Growing human organs inside of animals isn't really a new thing, especially for testing purposes. I guess the advancement here is that since they just need to test the tissue, it doesn't need to be functional - so might as well use fast growing mice to do this rather than, say, a pig - which we use for stuff like insulin research and development. I'm also gonna guess it's in a children's hosptal probably because we don't have great data on how children's bodies react to all sorts of medicines and therapies which are typically tested on adults (for good reasons). This now allows them to quickly test (and potentially personalize) medicine for kids that might need it (and if you have GI issues as a kid, these might be those REALLY BAD cases where it's game over if you don't fix it - as opposed to in adults, where that's not typically the case). Just my guess, but yea, I don't think this is something that is that surprising. If you're against it, that's totally fine, but there are almost certainly important and meaningful uses for this technology that I imagine most of us would probably think is worth the weirdness.

[@bdanielnikolich1]

I live in the Cincinnati area. Our Children’s Hospital has one of the best reputations in the country😊

[@amandakay6330]

"I've seen Star Trek. I just saw it on The Mandalorian." 🤦‍♀️

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I feel like this came from the mythical Chasm of Sar. Not be confused with the Sar(lacc) Pit.

[@kathierezek3515]

So glad to hear the Amazon recommendation thing. I had the same thought...I bought a yearly planner and they kept trying to sell me another one. I thought they might do better to recommend a pen, or highlighters, or the next year's planner. Ah, advertising.

[@actionsub]

As for the homogenous unit principle of church growth, the other promoter of that principle with C. Peter Wagner was Donald McGavran.

[@synergytech7323]

Chinese balloons have historically been a caution to the American people for the threat of nuclear or chemical attack. An EMP would greatly knock out all electric infrastructure.

[@rosemarylong1735]

Justifying whatever sounds a lot like pride... you know that thing that brought about the fall of man in Eden...

[@abaneyone]

Professing themselves to be wise...

[@patrickc3419]

@@abaneyoneRomans 1

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@patrickc3419 I always get a laugh out of people citing Romans 1, because Romans 2 substantially changes the meaning. The name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles because of people citing Romans 1.

[@patrickc3419]

@@JustanotherconsumerRomans 1.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@patrickc3419 Romans 2. Read the whole thing, not just the parts you want to hear.

[@MARKPEDERSON1]

Amen Brother on saying that we need to associate with a local body of believers. We need people

[@Justanotherconsumer]

They don’t need to be local, though it does have to be an actual community which is hard (but not impossible) to do online.

[@eliaspascoe5108]

This is soo good, im getting the "holy ghost" munchies and saying "mmm" 😂 Seriously though, i just put this together for myself 3 years ago. Dominionism is a serious heresy.

[@davidbrock4605]

They didn't blow the balloon up, the missile had no warhead, it just popped it

[@BobofMIB]

Remnant Radio on KZbin are worth a look they have critiqued the NAR but are also close to people who are often accused of being NAR. They are one of my current favorite podcasts, enthusiastic about spiritual gifts but also keen to test things are actually from God and thoughtfully think through theology and listen to opposing christian views.

[@whiteevangelicalswhiteevan6084]

41:52 Im not part of the apostolic reformation, but they just painted that group with a broad brush and then talked about how its bad to paint entire groups with a broad brush. This is like, a weekly thing with this show..

[@stewartloggins811]

That is a fault. But still a lot of good on this show

[@thezenlu]

How are you defining broad brush here?

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Actually haven’t heard them complaining about painting groups with a broad brush. That obsession with individuality is something you’ll see more from conservatives these days as resistance to the concept of systemic problems. Talking about groups gets a bit toxic when we start with talking about individuals and then demand that they must be X because the group they are part of tends to be X. Recognizing the pattern that a new religious movement as a group has an association with a behavior at the group level is not automatically bad. Do you have counterexamples that demonstrate they’re wrong about the group as a group, or is this just an attempt to deflect criticism by nitpicking the structure of the argument?

[@simba0830]

You don’t like it and you watch it weekly. Committed

[@danielunderwood3198]

“It is but it’s so stupid” mic drop moment from skye!

[@danielgarlic2464]

Donald McGavrin developed homogeneous unit principle at Fulller at Church Growth Institute before Wagner went to Pasadena.

[@Olderwiser77]

We will lose every battle we don't know that we are in. Ephesians 6:12 is the battle

[@norenemanning4686]

Great show! You hit soooo many great points…trying to forget I ever listened to some of those folks selling all those crazy teachings. I wish I could get all the money I spent on those $10-$20 CDs that made them wealthy.

[@GuilleTerrazas]

A great and educational episode, specially for people like me that are foreign to the US politics. It is so fascinating to see why there is that intersection between the Republican Party and evangelicalism.

[@nealdavis7276]

I usually agree with a majority of the opinions expressed by the hosts, but I find myself disagreeing with Skye in this episode. He suggests that we should abandon the spiritual warfare idioms and rhetoric. I think that the problem is not with the imagery and concepts themselves, but with the manner in which they often get applied. Language of principalities and demonic oppression can be a very helpful framework to work towards combating social injustices. It does not need to be (nor should it be) exclusively used to paint one partisan party as the demonic party and the other as the righteous party. That’s what the whole, “We wrestle not against flesh and blood…,” is about. All human institutions are subject to demonic influence, but we cannot put all the demonic influence exclusively upon any single human group or institution.

[@Ericviking2019]

Y'all missed the obvious question, why did we use those Jewish space lasers to shoot it down?

[@patrickc3419]

Can you please provide the social media post and/or footage of those specific words being used? Literally the words 1.) Jewish 2.) Space and 3.) Laser. All together. All in the same sentence/statement?

[@adamrshields]

@@patrickc3419 It is a quote from Marjorie Taylor Green. In context, she blamed Jewish space lasers for starting California wildfires in 2021. I tried leaving a link to one of the stories but KZbin rejected my comment. They are very easy to find. If you google jewish space lasers you will instantly find them.

[@patrickc3419]

@@adamrshields I know that it is very infuriating when I attempt to share something with someone via a post that I will attach and then KZbin immediately takes it down; happens to me too, and for things that are not even controversial! I know that this statement has been attributed to her as a way to make a blanket statement that anyone who professes they are a Christian (or at the very least, a conservative) are an unhinged conspiracy theorist. I am both (Christian and conservative, not unhinged and conspiracy theorist 😒), and do not take this woman seriously. She is an attention seeking lunatic. Her and Ocasio-Cortez frankly deserve each other.

[@adamrshields]

@@patrickc3419 She absolutely isn't serious. But there are many that do follow her. I don't think of her as a leader as much as someone that is similarly deceived as many others. As someone who is just a bit outside of her voting district, she does matter. She is a regular speaker at both conservative political and Christian groups. And speaking out against her is something that has a cost locally.

[@michaeljay6349]

@Eric, because the space laser is not yet launched... and reading the November 17, 2018 facebook post suggests to me that the wildfires were accidental, rather than ecoterrorism by the Rothchilds. (but... a pretty crazy facebook post ) Now... I'm rather confused why she brought the Rothchild family into it... but -- putting solar cells in space and aiming a laser to a receiver to distribute the power, as of now, is the stuff of 1940's science fiction. This might change soon... but, I've some difficulty figuring out how or why MTG decided attach it to a Jewish banking family. Personally, I don't think orbital power generators will catch on; too expensive compared to ground based solutions.

[@markusmo1]

We have lasers to take down a balloon no matter how high they are. But if it has chemical's on board you better wait till it is on the east coast.

[@drligme]

On the money, guys!!

[@wycliffethomas9055]

Sooooo.... About the angels that sword fight...no 2nd Amendment rights for them??? 🤪

[@greglogan7706]

It's been fun through 20 minutes certainly now I'm looking forward to the Emerald city

[@joykeebler1916]

What the churches form together as, is in the prophecy of Revelation chapter 13 verse 11

[@enigma1865]

Our oddness has a long history

[@robertguidry2168]

I came for news of the butt. I was disappointed.

[@curtismartin2866]

Where the heck do you think the GI tract ends?

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

As a product of the cold War, I didn't care or think it really mattered.

[@Olderwiser77]

What about a laser or a drug take it down in one piece

[@Ericviking2019]

Please stop talking about towing the balloon, Kristian, that is ridiculous.

[@jacobvardy]

The world might be a better place if pastors had decided not to preach over the radio . Instead of focusing on their parish.

[@Ericviking2019]

Amen

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The message would get out one way or another. Only way to stop that is to silence them. As much as I disagree with some of them, I agree with free speech and freedom of religion more - as long as they’re not directing harassment, intimidation, violence, and that sort of stuff, let them talk.

[@crosswithasong]

Oof. It's getting harder to enjoy this podcast if Skye keep dunking on dispensationalism. I love the Holy Post for its nuanced and big picture view of so many topics, but dispensationalism is constantly antagonized wholesale. It reminds me of people who think all Christians are bad because they met some mean ones. It's more nuanced than that.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

There’s a #notallmen problem here - dispensationalism’s loudest advocates are now… problematic. If all of the loud Christians are not great people and the quiet ones say nothing, they are letting the loud ones define them. It’s a problem all Christians have these days because of those who are eager to abuse faith to score some cheap political points.

[@crosswithasong]

@@Justanotherconsumer I agree. There is a lot to critique, but so quickly it become a scape goat. So when someone I admire like Skye wishes to throw my Christian tradition "into the lake of fire" it's concerning. It starts to sound a lot like the episode when they discussed how everything to the Christians on the far right label as "woke" or "CRT", now the boogiemen of the Holy Post are Christian Nationalists (appropriately) and dispensationalists.

[@bethrossiter1857]

everything Skye says!! preach

[@mikemestas9835]

cally ally in come free cute combers!

[@MARKPEDERSON1]

Hey I am a pastor and I never though of using this spy balloon thing as a sermon illustration. I am going to go more with some things my kids did when they were little. Seriously lets not attack the pastor. I am a expository preacher and dont fish for such lame illustrations

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Eh, a little bit of lighthearted mockery of pastors is healthy - it’s important that we don’t make them into idols. Babylon Bee used to be great for this before they jumped the shark.

[@patrickc3419]

I would literally pay cash to for them to have James White be a guest. But I highly doubt he would ever be asked.

[@katiecugini979]

Why do you want to see them have James White as a guest?

[@patrickc3419]

@@katiecugini979 Because he is (while obviously not a sinless, infallible man) one of the greatest living expositors of scripture who can exegete a text from the original Koine Greek and/or Hebrew. He has addressed and debated representatives of false teachings such as Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, Gnosticism, Jehovah’s Witness, King James Only advocates, & “atheism”.

[@katiecugini979]

@patrickc3419 holy post already had some of the greatest theologians on the show- N.T. Wright and John Walton. N.T. Wright has debated James White and, in my humble opinion, was definitely better than James White.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Given that it’s you recommending him, I have my doubts. That he does reject KJV-only nonsense is a good sign, though.

[@katiecugini979]

@Justanotherconsumer do you know me? You said, "Given that it is you recommending him, "? I've seen James White debate trent Horn and Nt Wright. James White did ok, but nothing on the level of NT WRIGHT. Wright is literally a genius. People who are asked to write about N. T. Wright may find they quickly run out of superlatives. He is the most prolific biblical scholar in a generation. Some say he is the most important apologist for the Christian faith since C. S. Lewis. He has written the most extensive series of popular commentaries on the New Testament since William Barclay. And, in case three careers sound like too few, he is also a church leader, having served as Bishop of Durham, England, before his current teaching post at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.

[@austin5640]

Does that chick think homosexual relationships aren’t sinful? Have u called her out on it?

[@bkucenski]

Have you sold everything you have and given it to the poor?

[@austin5640]

@@bkucenski have u?

[@bkucenski]

@@austin5640 Am I judging the world or are you?

[@austin5640]

@@bkucenski so u haven’t then

[@bkucenski]

@@austin5640 No, Klan. Worry about yourself. You're plenty condemned yourself, so worry about that.

[@markusmo1]

The Chinese and russians have people in place in major electrical companies, Nuclear power , railroads , Airlines pretty much everywhere . Don't freak out they mean no harm ?