6.0L LS INTAKE TEST-A/F DISTRIBUTION (CARB VS EFI)

SBE 6.0L LS Test. CARBS VS PORT EFI. Who makes more power? The OG Carb or a modern, multi-port EFI? We compared them both on the same Holley single-plane(LS) intake manifold. We even tuned the cylinders individually with the Holley HP ECU. Is that an unfair advantage, or can the carb hold its own?

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Outstanding video!

[@deanstevenson6527]

Uncle Tony's Garage : Pretty cool UT. But hes got no beard. And he needs a New Jersey. Hed get more hits with mohair....

[@robmotown1]

Uncle Tony's Garage agreed!!!

[@451dskots88]

Uncle Tony!!! Woohoo!!! Very cool seeing ya here!

[@frtaylor9]

Video and audio quality seems to be getting better with every video. Keep them coming!

[@nadronnocojr]

Hitman Productions sponsorship helps with that

[@TurboDog73TX]

The safety window AND the ability to enjoy a lean AFR at light load cruising speed in a street car is what makes EFI so great. In a nutshell, CONTROL is what makes EFI so wonderful..

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Control and consistency. EFI automatically compensates for a huge range of conditions giving consistent operation, carbs don't.

[@troymcdonald9795]

Not to mention mpg increases w fuel injection!

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@Olds_Pwr Then your EFI was either programmed incorrectly, or just a terrible design.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@Olds_Pwr Then the carbed engine was making significantly less power. A single-point injection system also isn't the height of EFI technology.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@Olds_Pwr Replacing the EFI with a carb is going to change the amount of power that the engine makes. I can't find any reference to the Festiva having MPI.

[@jeffhelton2735]

Agreed been wanting this answer for a very long time you just answered it thanks again I'm old school carb is for me

[@faustthehammer8706]

Did enjoy the close relationship between the two though shows that carbs aren't crappy archaic technology and still work well

[@Tariq_F._Raheem86]

Oh yes this was the one I was waiting on.

[@FordMaverickFanatic]

Rich, this is probably the best video I have seen on this subject. Very in depth and informative. Thank you! I for the most part, am an old school carb guy, but there is no doubt that fuel injection has its advantages too! To say one is outright better than the other would not be true. Each has their own perks and pitfalls! Keep up the great work!

[@eternalthread7846]

Carbs are awesome crazy how century old technology makes just as much power as efi

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Efi was created for economy, better distribution and atomization of fuel plus automatic adjustment via the MAF, o2 sensors.

[@b.c4066]

Not crazy at all. When you figure the guys that designed, tested, and developed efi only had carbs as a base to improve from. The mindset was the same, and at the end of the day the engine needs x amount of air and x amount of fuel to make x amount of power. What's interesting is the charge cooling of the carb. I'd like to see this test with a 4bbl throttle body that has 4 injectors vs the carb. I bet the results would be the same (as far as charge cooling, not cylinder to cylinder distribution)

[@frankdatank7751]

@@shadowopsairman1583 carburetors atomiz fuel better thats why they will always have a cooler ait

[@hayden6056]

​​@@frankdatank7751 no it's because petrol goes down the intake manifold rather then being shot directly at the intake port. The petrol does the cooling.

[@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions]

Absolute perfect description of both types, reasons and effects of how and why. This segways into a blow-thru comparison. It'd be good to show people how crazy cool the intake air gets with a blown through carb.

[@leroyt2590]

james Mcguinness love to see that test!

[@Moosenukel]

@@leroyt2590 I saw this a couple weeks ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKvZqot9rLSAmdk

[@gsppuffer]

There's no reason ill informed people should be out there with all the knowledge you're spreading with these videos.I haven't built a car in years but still watch all these videos because the day will come when I build another one and all this information helps out tremendously

[@benamydavid]

Mr. Holder I just want to take a second and thank you for all that you do I'm a 50 year old man that has always enjoyed the hobby of cars . As I've gotten older and health Is Not What It has always been I've kind of come to the conclusion I don't have a whole lot of cars left to build. One of my dreams that I have never done is finally build one Ground Pounder, I have got a 63 Ford Fairlane bucket seat center console 3 on the tree Fairlane that I'm going to be building into a thunderbolt tribute car over the last year I have picked up a few variations of motors, I have a truck 6.0 that only had about 10,000 Miles when it was wrecked I also have an older 5.3 with about 150,000 miles and a 390 Fe did I was going to stroke out to 427 or thereabouts. Watching your videos has been so entertaining educational and even able to show more budget ways of doing things although I have yet decided what I'm going to do as a motor much less the injection you have opened up a whole new world for me, keep doing what you do especially for the younger generation what you give to us free here on KZbin watching your videos the knowledge to make the right decision or the affordable decision out of everyone in the KZbin world you have truly been a blessing and I just wanted to thank you for all of your hard work and all of your easy-to-follow videos. In Closing let me know what you want me to bring to you the Fe or the 6.0 so we can run it through its paces, LOL take care Master holder and thank you for all you do sincerely David Broome. Atlanta Georgia.

[@kwik440]

Thank you Richard, for taking the time to educate us!!

[@PapaWheelie1]

Probably the most informative video on KZbin- I can tell myself that I know everything about induction but this guy can explain it (and back it up with results). If you truly understand something, it is easy to explain to others. Thanks for the learning experience!

[@GlobalMediaInc]

Another Great Test, Richard!

[@georgem.6136]

I think its time to bring in a Sniper & put it to the test, all its functions!

[@stevelacker358]

I love this test, and I'm always amazed how surprisingly well carburetors work given everything that's stacked against them, specially when you consider the difference in cost. So many guys now put EFI on weekend cruisers that never see huge power output, and IMO its just not worth it unless you just want EFI. I love EFI in my modern daily driven Hemi, I'd use it if I had a drag car (even if I were using an old school big-block v8), but something just appeals to me about the elegant simplicity of a carb on my 60s 440s used for weekend cruising. Its cool that a device that's been around over a hundred years, with no electrical parts, and powered only by moving air doing 90% as good a job as something with 8 injectors, at least 5 sensors, and a computer. I'd also like to see one of those all-in-one TBI systems (FiTech or Sniper) thrown in the mix here. I have mixed feelings about them- on the one hand they should provide charge cooling throughout the intake just like a carb does while having at least the same AVERAGE AFR control of sequential port EFI for (theoretically) better cold starting and driveability. On the other hand, they should have all the same fuel distribution problems that carbs have. and all the failure points (injectors, sensors, computer, higher pressure fuel pump) of EFI.

[@stevelacker358]

MajorLeague after watching data logging on modern engines under varying load, it’s clear that a whole bunch of the efficiency and power gains we used to say were “because of fuel injection” were really from having a much more adaptable timing map.

[@DieselDoktor]

I’m a carb guy and I thought EFI was gonna win by a decent bit…. Glad to see this.

[@orionsmith7669]

Great tests as always! I’m glad you brought up charge temp. Makes for a great backup test using a TBI setup such as a Holley Sniper X-Flow.

[@gallupcustomknives2293]

Orion Smith just add water/methanol injection to the SFI. TBI is great if you’re just getting started with EFI but it has the exact same problem of high and low A/F cylinders as a carburetor does, due to the microscopic differences between runners, valve clearances, valve seat conditions, etc. unless you’re running 8 individual carbs or a manifold with perfectly tuned equal runners, and rebuilding your engine every 10 hours of run time, you’ll never get perfect A/F in each cylinder with any kind of fuel delivery in one single location.

[@sprintcardriver8]

Another good test ready to see the difference between blow thru carb vs blow thru fuel injection

[@sprintcardriver8]

nallen100 there's no other way of getting fuel to a forced induction engine so u don't have much of a choice unless ur running vegetable oil lol

[@sprintcardriver8]

nallen100 that's what I meant factory FI

[@sprintcardriver8]

nallen100 I'm going with blow thru e85 carb that way I don't need an intercooler since it cools the charge better then efi and tuning is more simple

[@tomtom1541]

@@sprintcardriver8 the charge cooling on an E85 carb will be identical to a tbi EFI system. You won't get more charge cooling unless you add extra fuel. The disadvantage will be that on a carb setup you can't switch between regular and E85 without rejetting the carb.

[@huddleberryfin]

Man, I just found your channel the other day. This stuff is pure gold! Keep it up.

[@StavTech]

Best video yet! Proves two things I tell people about a lot and they always ignore- AFRs doesn't have a drastic effect on power, but almost all intake setups have wildly differing airflow cyl to cyl, dangerously so! It's much worse with boost than N/A in my experience too. Good work sir, keep it up.

[@stevesolo16]

The issue when using a carb or throttle body that is too big is, the larger you make the opening, the more the loss in velocity of the charge down the intake runner. I was surprised at how small the power diff was showing the Lambda chart. I was sure the richer AFR in green wasn't going to be as close to the others as it was. Great video!!!

[@RL-RL]

Carb vs efi and results were almost the same. You did pick the right cam also. What people don't understand is, N/A the cam is limited by the heads that are used. VERY good test and proof of what the outcome was!

[@justingiese6544]

Very cool. Just added a sniper to my previously carbed LS1 in my 69 camaro. Love the way the car drives now. Totally worth the fuel pump and fan control.

[@flomofo1]

A long-term test would be interesting to see how/if A/F ratios and mileage changes with different seasons and elevations. Then a periodic dyno session thrown in where you test each one for power. You could even visit different dynos at different locations (temps/elevations) to see the power/efficiency difference between each setup even if the overall numbers don't matter. Carbs always do well on a dyno, but I think I would have a hard time keeping up with EFI performance in the real world unless I'm a carb savant.

[@mickgrimes9078]

this was interesting as hell. fantastic work.

[@EGGINFOOLS]

Richard, these test are really informative! You're doing test people haven't done or at least recorded. I really appreciate the effort and knowledge you bring

[@tomnekuda3818]

I've never been a complete LS fan......but I'm getting there. What an amazing engine!

[@dilsher12]

Excellent video and very enlightening. It always scares me how different AFR is between cylinders , that's why I always tune richer than usual I might lose a couple of hp but the engine is safe

[@fildavis2024]

Great video and information! So awesome to watch these videos and see these test that I wish I could do!

[@lewisfoltz6306]

Always knowledgeable and unbiased!

[@jesseaguirre2961]

thx Richard ,, cleared out all the mud ..

[@pullingworld]

Your videos are starting to become really interesting!

[@griffsrearmountturbothemod1623]

Great information, highlights how important boosted engines need a reasonable a/f for each cylinder. Steve did the twin carb tuning a while back staggered the jet to get a reasonable distribution.. Great vid..

[@TheProchargedmopar]

GRIFFS REARMOUNT TURBO, The Modfather Glad you saw this vid. Love CARBS!

[@richardholdener1727]

Staggered jetting works well on tunnel rams

[@ekess7458]

Another great test. I would like to see the throttle body injected Units tested against carb and port, especially with forced induction. Also would like to see how well the gm efi manifolds distribute air. How about touching on hp and knock threshold vs coolant temp in forced induction applications.

[@teacherm96]

Man I love you keep up the outstanding content 👍

[@jacquescrusan9500]

biggest difference between the carb and the batch EFI was Manifold Air Density/Manifold Air Temperature. Charge cooling has so many benefits as far as power production is concerned, and is the reason why older (2000-2013 N/A) F1 engines utilized Gantry-style injection, where the injectors were placed at the outer edge of the air horns. I would think the most ideal setup (with money as no object) would be a set of 8 ITB's put in a cross-ram style that can vary their intake runner length in the same fashion as the system utilized on the LaFerrari V12. That way you get all the benefits of control that come with Fuel injection, the charge cooling benefits of a carburetor, and an intake that can lengthen and shorten at will to match the demands of the engine for a given RPM/load/Throttle position.

[@fiveothis]

You have the most informative videos going right now, keep it up!!!

[@lukenellermoe6266]

Best video of the year

[@Blitzkreger00]

I'm so fed up with my stroked LS1 EFI im seriously about to move to a LS carb setup. I'm between a Edlebrock 800cfm intake carb kit carb swap and Edlebrock 4150 style Pro Flo 4+ setup. I rather spend hundreds of dollars on a nice carb then have to pay a tuner every time I need something done. And electronics like to fail. Great video! Been watching you since the 4.3L

[@ShatteredBrush]

Fantastic comparison and very well done. Thanks for the charts and graphs to show hard data. I love that you unbiasedly compare stuff with solid results. Keep it up dude!

[@jeffhelton2735]

Biggest thing I see in this industry some guys gets it really complicated and confusing. Old racer told me years ago keep it simple and use common since I have listen to that statement he made to me years ago successful racer because he kept it simple and was inducted into hall Fame great guy consistant racer

[@rongravel4585]

I’m a carb guy. But you can’t deny the benefits of EFI. Cool vid. The knowledge is just incredible.

[@Stomachbuzz]

As a first time viewer, I enjoyed this video. Someone actually posted it in a FB argument in an LSx swap group. They said carburetors make more power than FI due to better atomization. Me, knowing better, told them they are crazy. They posted this video in response. I greatly appreciate and respect your experiment here. Definitely more knowledgeable, experienced, and better equipped than I will [likely] ever be. But this isn't quite the full story. One point: if the carburetor does better down low, and then falls off in the upper RPMs, then looking at the A/F curve, you notice the carb is lean down low and becomes rich up high, why would you not mimic the FI curve to be more lean in lower RPMs? This video, as proper experiment should be, operated on an 'all things being equal' plane. You did a fantastic job of trying to eliminate variables between carb and FI here. But 'all things being equal' isn't the point of FI. That cuts off the massive benefits to FI. The point of FI is that you CAN do amazing things. You can tune each cylinder individually, the computer can rapidly adjust to radically different operating environments (cold weather, hot weather, humidity, altitude, etc). Infinite variability in the fuel injection. Simply not possible for carburetors without physically changing aspects of the carb. The massive amount of information and control that is possibly ONLY with FI makes it a no brainer. It doesn't do FI justice to have it compete against carburetion in a very static, one-mode only environment. The carburetor is perfectly tuned for that one environment, while the FI is tuned 99% as well over a wide range of environments. The POTENTIAL is much greater with FI. Also, if you say the carb'd engine benefits from charge cooling, I'd like to see what happens when you give colder air to the FI engine. Or maybe give colder air to both of them and see which benefits more.

[@richardholdener1727]

CHARGE COOLING

[@christopherdwayne1110]

Yes afr makes little difference in power , however if the afr is corrected in each cylinder ,it lets you add timing and we all know that does make power so I think for that reason and others injection is better , however we didn’t talk about money. Thanks for a great video . Dwayne NZ.

[@ChrisLMartin]

Like the way you explain why and show what's happening.

[@ChurchAutoTest]

Great video Richard. I think you really hit all the points on this one. You've also demonstrated why, when running poor quality fuel (e.g. California 91 octane) it's always better to err on the richer side under heavy load. The power hit is so minimal but I'd much rather be running 12-13:1 spread (I don't think its that bad on most factory LS manifolds, but maybe on some) than 13-14:1.

[@markcole6475]

I love carb vs EFI vids…great accurate comparison

[@wademunyard9026]

I’ve seen back to back dyno runs where you change afr’s from say 13.0 down to 12.0, only difference is in safety. What surprised me was the carb vs efi and the individual cylinder tuning. I would of figured carb vs efi would make the same peak numbers but efi would make slightly more everywhere else. I also thought there would be more of a gain by individual cylinder tuning. But I guess if ignition timing was all controlled in the same way you’d get similar results

[@TPVPRO]

I know Nascar could tune individual cylinders with a carb I would like to see how they are able to do this in a upcoming video that would be pretty awesome.Also what about a setup like a Holly sniper setup that takes advantage of the air charge like a carb but is a F.I. system. That would make a good video also. 😁

[@Heathfx5]

You and Gale Banks are my go to channels when I want to see serious data and serious testing! Show me another diesel guy or a gas guy that shares more data! This satisfies my nerdy side so much, I love it!

[@6spd85notch]

Excellent videos such valuable info that such a small percentage people ever get to see or learn.

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Richard, pure gold! Thank you! BTW, we've known how to tune a carb at any RPM, vacuum, and throttle position setting for a couple decades now.

[@rickybobby0314]

Now this is cool stuff. Test that go into detail as to why this or that works. One of the 1st real videos that I like from this channel (not trying to sound mean).

[@marcstlaurent3719]

Great comparison Richard , the reality is even for most people who get their stuff dyno’d they don’t get each cylinder measured individually.

[@bgd73]

great video. I learned carb (my home made rochestor) TBI (15psi) and multiport on the same engine. A boxer self balanced 3 main. the multiport allows engine to last longer with the same numbers. TBI goes lean instead of fat like carb would at the top... and in vast temperature ranges, the carb is simply a serial killer. I am now running an SBC from 1996 in my gmc truck..379k miles, no end in sight. drove all of them since the days of four barrel. My biggest engine was the 4 barrel... and the engine died very young. I usually sit back and let arguments fly today.. I just turned 47. your patience is very good. Multiport is the winner. no need to argue. Just get out in the real world and learn it.

[@kwik440]

HOLY COW !! I thought for sure the power difference would be a bunch!! NOT ! wow eye opening .. thank you so much for doing these videos to educate us !! (me) : )

[@MrOgre1110]

Great video! Perhaps a video on carb versus injector further out from the valve, equal distance from the valve as the carb and further out to find the sweet spot of the cooling effect of the fuel.

[@djracing5231]

It would be interesting to test a few different common inlet manifolds (performance aftermarket and OEM) to observe what AFR variation from air distribution in each one.

[@TurbineResearch]

This really shows why it's important to run rich under high load and boost. Individual cylinder afr variance can be super dramatic

[@mark_osborne]

Simply spectacular !

[@jamalgordon7824]

This guy is awesome. So much information.

[@novusbuildcraft1400]

I really want to see an LS engine with a SBC firing order swap side by side power comparison!

[@GDG184]

Me too! Glad I'm not the only one who was wondering that

[@BlueCollarBen]

See I want a SBC with the LS firing order and see the difference. Perhaps they will do both?

[@GDG184]

@@BlueCollarBen alot people actually do that, if you want to see how its done go on david frieburger's from roadkill KZbin channel and he explains how it works, does seem to much of a power increase, 10hpish but he said he thinks the Ls firing order increases efficiency and longevity of the motor because it runs alittle smoother

[@BlueCollarBen]

Classic Car Garage yep I saw his video on it. I would still like to see just a side by side comparison.

[@GDG184]

@@BlueCollarBen me too hopefully someone will do it because I'd love to here a Ls with a sbc firing order. It would be the ultimate sleeper, minus the water pump sound that all Ls's have which completely gives it away

[@soundguy_znclark1919]

My opinion EFI is good if you know how to tune it And if you want to save the engine for longer time that is your option but if you’re trying to make Powell my opinion I would go with a carb little less technology A lot of times if you trying to go down a dragstrip it is sometimes better to have less technology due to the fact less can go rong

[@joseiracheta3817]

How about throttle body injection? You wont be able to tune as much as port injection but you would get the cooling effects.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

Although very few have access to a dyno, he did a good job of showing the strengths and weakness of each, and where there is little difference sometimes between the two. For a little guy on a budget I need info to help me not cook my stuff. No hype = good video!! I'll subscribe after this video.

[@GoingBracketRacing]

Awesome video!

[@wil8115]

before watching i was thinking the LSA would favor the EFI. i'll edit at end. Not surprised at all. well done Rich.

[@jefferyholcombe5189]

Richard there is a way to tune at a certain RPM with a carburetor and keep the carb rich at one spot and lean it out at another area. There is a guy on KZbin that made his own product called the "Carb Cheater" and it uses an A/F meter to control a regulated air blead that meters air in the motor to reach a targeted A/F ratio that you set.

[@daveoneal5544]

Been waiting a long time for this

[@steven44799]

I didn't think there was going to be much of a difference in peak power, where EFI really stands apart from a carb is everyday usability. It doesn't matter what the weather is like (10 degrees or 100), if you change altitude from sea level to 8000ft or go from pump 91 to E85. If you have the sensors for it EFI will just do its thing and the engine will start, run and behave itself. The carb is great for simplicity, put it in and you could have all of 3 wires connected to the engine and be up and running, systems like the terminator X are making EFI much more beginner friendly. plug it in, answer some Multiple choice questions and it's good enough to drive around on for more common setups with all the every day usability benefits EFI offers for about the price of a nice carb and distributor.

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

I love this guy! Great videos!

[@WesternReloader]

Great video Richard, and yes there is room for both!

[@fabricationnation8052]

You'll never catch me bitching in the comments.....I'm a young builder and will take every bit of info you want to give me....I love every video you make, keep it up

[@LSswapfox]

This was a fantastic video. Really interesting with lots of good data and comparisons!!!

[@matthewvarnam4302]

Is it true that a carburetor sounds better on a engine? Does it actually sound any different than EFI through the exhaust?

[@darwinfridgeseals741]

Sooooo good, keep up the Great LS content

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

Excellent video. Makes you wonder what all the debate is about when it is so close, but my preference for injection has always been the tunability.

[@WickedTRX]

The same power, edti: didn't know Richard was going to tell right after doing the question...

[@faustthehammer8706]

After I thought about this the camshaft was designed for boost not na, so that may make reversion happen on a carb on the top rpm vs. The fuel injection. It would make sense since the overlap and centerline on the cam wouldn't provide signal to the carbs circuit at high rpm

[@CreeperOnYourHouse]

The big thing that running rich really allows is changing the timing. Wonder how power compares if you change the timing for each curve?

[@cobramike13bravo63]

Thanks for educational video, answers questions about carb vs efi on 5.0 ford. You had mentioned it really is a difference of intakes, and I have seen the light my friend.

[@dennisclanton5342]

Thanks for all the work !

[@ChopsMahone]

Excellent video as always.

[@davewolf8869]

Wow. Eye opening. I expected the two graphs to be MUCH different... Not almost the exact same

[@matthewdupuis232]

Hey Richard, it would be really interesting to see how closely your 8 different O2 sensors (and 8 from different manufacturers) would read in a single exhaust stream.

[@Thegaragefiles]

I was thinking carb will win for overall power, but I think drivability and efficiency, fuel injection, I would like to see this with 823 heads and the 469 cam, throttle body versus ls3 intake. That’s what my build is looking like. Thanks for the great videos

[@georgem.6136]

The Ultra XP is a great carb & seems to be always close on jetting out of the box.

[@soundslikealot]

Awesome info, thank you Richard! ✊

[@jeffhelton2735]

Also The way he set his fuel was studying his smart plugs. They tell you exactly what each cylinder is doing he constantly checked his plugs

[@rifleman7313]

Very informative

[@floridabrushanddirt2482]

Great video, another well made and very informative. Keep up the good work.

[@supercharged6771]

Love this

[@DaOnE51T]

Great content. Lean isn’t always mean. Every air pump is different. You have to give it what she wants. Dyno numbers/timeslips will tell you if your going the right direction.

[@steveelco114]

Brother your stuff is gold 👍

[@jasonpowell4847]

So why not throw in tb fuel injection to compare.

[@elvynortiz3456]

I love ur engine knowledge and testing pls keep going ... keep sharing engine specs and parts u use on them we love ur channel and u

[@godofrock]

Modern carbs are great. Everyone is scared of carbs thinking they are going to cause problems starting or cold starting but the fact is I never had issues with carbs on all my cars sure there is a learning curve for manual chokes but I failed to start a cold car in michigan even at 10 below. The fact is carbs ate great unless you are drive in the mountains.

[@DBLDREW]

would love to see the individual cylinder AFR of the carb, and also a comparison of a throttle body injection as well, seems a TBI with the tunability of efi and also the air charge cooling

[@adampinczesgarageandfabric9930]

great video but i was hoping you would hit on ignition timing as well. what is the power gain advantage of sequential injection since it is running safer? how much more timing can you run? and what's the power gain with that? is there any gain at all?