LSX Carburetor swap 1: Carburetor vs. EFI on your LS engine, the real deal.

[@joewindsor1119]

I got my LY6 as a long block pull out from a work van. It had nothing but an oil pan, timing cover, valley cover and rear main plate. Buying an msd 6014 box and a trick flow single plane intake was way cheaper than buying an efi intake, upgrading the fuel system, buying every sensor and actuator plus a wiring harness and ecm. I literally have enough Holley carb parts laying around to build 3 or 4 whole carbs just from years of collecting for various reasons. Having a carbed LS also makes people scratch their heads at shows

[@daegan7293]

What’s all has to be wired in when going with carbed ls

[@adamrog6327]

A carbureted ls is a gifted sound form the gods

[@jodypierson3137]

I don’t have access to dyno tuning or time to fiddle around trying to tune a cammed LS with EFI , I went carb and love it

[@codyrogers190]

So stoked I found your channel. You have great info and I can't wait for the rest of these videos

[@BAHRacingTeam]

I’m doing an LS with a carb and nitrous. It’s what I like. Drag racing only and I want it simple. Motor is at the shop now. I am also looking to run the msd box. One piece at a time. Definitely a budget build

[@Scramspeed]

Right on! Its a potent combo and very simple to do.

[@kentaylor6842]

Thanks for a very unbiased and informative video. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thank you sir.

[@Scramspeed]

Thank you! We try to be helpful!

[@SOLDOZER]

I want to put a quadrajet on an LS to make the LS guys lose their minds.

[@Scramspeed]

haha, that might do it.

[@jeremeyhill1818]

If you got a got a dude that does Quadrajets right like mine you’ll be good they ran a quadrajet on 305 to 454 so why not and I ran one on my lq9 before moving to a quick fuel and haven’t look back

[@bobhilly546312156332]

Quadrajet the only carburetor that punishes you for going full throttle

[@SOLDOZER]

@@bobhilly546312156332 It rewards you with that sweet sound though...

[@cartermackenzie1135]

I was gonna do the same thing, I'm LS swapping a 944, the idea is to make a car that offends as many of these 12 year old tik tokers with miatas as possible

[@dieselapegarage]

Nice ride appreciate the tips and tricks keep it coming watching an learning 👀🍿

[@Scramspeed]

Thanks! We've got some stuff in the pipe. Glad to hear it helps!

[@blixxy1320]

imo carbs are much more enjoyable to tinker with. also, with proper tuning, you can take advantage of charge cooling and not have to run an intercooler or meth on blowthrough setups..which is pretty cool when you don’t have much real estate to work with

[@mikef-gi2dg]

I have yet to do a ls swap of any kind, but i got to thinking about carb vs EFI. I like they way you reasoned it out, it kind of lines up with my thinking about performance. Never heard any one say a LS is the best carb swap platform ever, that got my attention. I just can't fall in line with the crowd, never could, so I would go carb, because I can. I'm kind of weird like that, so there. Good job.

[@Scramspeed]

Hello! Glad to hear it. The very first time I tuned a customer's carb car with a 6014 installed, I *had* to have one of my very own! We've had very good experiences with carbureted LS's over the years. Its very easy to go fast, for sure. If we can help with your project, let us know! www.scramspeed.com

[@mikef-gi2dg]

@@Scramspeed Yes sir, you can count on it. If I may, I have one question. Is the factory computer swap friendly, or is it too hard to work with? I only see swaps using aftermarket computers. Thanks.

[@smoberley]

@@mikef-gi2dg The factory PCM is viable for both EFI and carbureted swaps, but you have to be able to tune it to make it work properly. The aftermarket ECUs are much simpler to tune than a stock PCM. Most use HP tuners, and you have to buy credits for each PCM you license. In the case of carburetors, the HP tuners costs more than a MSD 6014, and the tuning is MUCH more complex than the 6014. The wiring would also be more involved. There are situations where it might be more viable, such as if you wanted to control a 4L80e transmission, had a good harness and already had HP tuners and the requisite tuning knowledge as well. But unless you were already an HP tuners user, and just wanted a challenge, I would still recommend going with Terminator X in that case, instead of the stock PCM.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

@@smoberley Wow that is a truck load of LS FYI info that to be honest, has been hard to nail down. I think for my first LS swap will be carb with MSD setup. I want to keep it simple, and affordable, plus I gravitate to bucking the program using a car. Yep i'm strange like that. Thanks a bunch.

[@smoberley]

@@mikef-gi2dg Sounds awesome to me. If we can help, let us know!

[@177SCmaro]

I have both. One thing I've noticed that's kinda funny to me is nowadays it seems like EFI is "easy mode" and it's carburetors that require the black magic wizardry. Most of these aftermarket EFI systems are so good, once you figure them out, they do a lot of the tuning themselves, you just tell them what you want to happen and they do it as opposed to a carb where you have to make it happen, usually through a lot of trial and error (o2 sensors save a lot of time). The bottom line I usually tell people is carb, cheaper, electrical is much simpler, probably easier to set up, usually takes longer to tune, makes slightly more power (compared to port efi) but you won't notice it. EFI costs a lot more, steeper initial learning curve, much faster to tune, setup tends to be more involved, makes slightly less power but better mpg, you won't notice the loss of power but you will the mpg. EFI usually fits under the hood/has less clearance issues. It's mostly a matter of individual preference and application. Sometimes I like efi's "set it and forget it", but I also like tinkering with carbs. So I only get the stink eye from the old school guys sometimes when I'm packing a laptop out to my race car.

[@Scramspeed]

We do both, a lot. They definitely each have their foibles and I can see where you're coming from. People seem to carry the assumption that if they install EFI on their car it is going to be trouble-free, but from the cars they bring us, that is very often not the case. We need to update this video and that is something we're working on.

[@177SCmaro]

@@Scramspeed Definitely. EFI is not the end all, especially when there are issues. It took me quite a while to short out all the issues and details on my Holley system bit once I did wow is it fast and easy to change fuel and timing. But if anything goes wrong at the racetrack I'm pretty screwed. Compare that to my other car with a carb if something goes wrong I can probably fix it with a box of hand tools and spare parts.

[@Scramspeed]

@@177SCmaro For sure. Its way more fun to get out the laptop at the racetrack than the jet box. haha. Always carry a spare 02 sensor, but otherwise, you should be in really good shape for a long time. Oh and don't forget your laptop...ask me why I know...LOL

[@177SCmaro]

@@Scramspeed lol

[@nordiccowboy3430]

I just found this video and I’m excited to learn more about this.

[@theredwedge9446]

I would love to eventually convert my lt1 to carburate (blowthrough) but for now It is easier to stick with what I have and keep going with efi.

[@lovensdamas1040]

I have a major auto leak in a lot of engine problems a friend of mine that’s a mechanic he told me to go carburetor and save me a lot of money. Most places were asking for 10 grand. This engine cost me 2500 ready to go so I have that on a process and I’m telling you there’s no wiring is your street muscle

[@kevinwells8492]

The wagon is Super Cool!!! Can you do a video on it of the specs and hits at the track??

[@Scramspeed]

Thanks! Yes, absolutely. Unfortunately, it won't be back on the track until spring, but we will get it done.

[@JKB315]

Another great video . Please keep making them . I’ve personally fought with this choice myself on my own car. It all depends on what each person wants .

[@Scramspeed]

More to come! Thank you!

[@SubePelayo928]

I’ve built an LS and planned on running a carb. Got an intake and carb pretty cheap. But, I’m thinking of doing a SBC now. It’s going into an off-road toy and I don’t want the MSD box being the reason why It won’t run. I purchased a Holley Sniper to throw on top of the LS or SBC which ever one I decide to go with. Guess I got to weigh the pros and cons

[@Scramspeed]

The MSD boxes are incredible reliable. I really wouldn't sweat that issue. However, a Sniper/6014 LS combination leaves a lot to be desired vs. Terminator X. Having unified timing and fuel control in an EFI setup is a big deal. Unless you've already got a SBC, the LS gets our vote 10 times out of 10.

[@SubePelayo928]

@@Scramspeed I have both motors. Sbc has heads cam and intake. The LS is aluminum 5.3 with ported 706 heads and btr cam. The sbc is drop in ready with the exhaust. The LS I’ll have to purchase the MSD box and new exhaust

[@jasonzitt6408]

Dang. I was hoping this would be the video telling me what i need to drop a carbonated ls in my plymouth. I just want to keep my caddy air filter

[@Scramspeed]

That would be a long video. The Mopar swaps are a bit more involved than the typical Ford and Chevy swaps. Mopar motor mounts and torsion bars make things a little tougher.

[@williamh6547]

I've been thinking about converting my 392 jeep Rubicon from fuel injection to carburetor 👍👍 been doing a lot of research, just haven't found anything yet to show me how to do it, as far as parts ,etc. I've always liked working on carburetors,

[@Scramspeed]

We love carburetors, but I really wouldnt advise that swap on your vehicle. Its possible to do, like anything else, but you would be working against yourself, particularly if you offroad it. Those PCMs are eminently tuneable! You just have to have the right tuner.

[@williamh6547]

@@Scramspeed thanks 👍 yeah I definitely do mudding, I'm looking into that tuneboy system.

[@mr.crayola6994]

Glad i found you bro cause in just scrolling through videos and your literally the best at explaining the difference i have a 1994 firebird that was given to me by doug dans and drag racer from here in Florida was champ at one point and im rebuilding a 6.0 ls to drop in and i wanted to do the conversion with a carburetor this car will be sick i paint cars for a living i appreciate your time and knowledge

[@Scramspeed]

Glad you liked it. Sounds like a very cool project. I hope to be back to making videos in the next couple of weeks!

[@Nathan-i6m]

WHAT ARE your thoughts on on using breather filters on both valve covers?and or the valley cover? Vs a catch can... any tips thanks

[@Scramspeed]

I run catch cans off of the valley cover on my car, but either way is fine if you have the room. As far as just breathers, it depends on what you're doing and what kind of shape the engine is in. Making a mess of your engine compartment is one thing, putting oil on the track is something else.

[@Nathan-i6m]

Thanks appreciate you..don't mean to ask 100 ?s lol... I know basic sbc sbf carburetor stuff. But new to ls engines. One thing I have learned in life is to ask the people that know. Instead of just guessing..any tips on underdrive pulleys on a budget? Trailblazer torque converter 4.2 for a budget stall ?. I m running 4.8 w.700r4 05 mustang. Spirited street. Might run on drag strip a few times just for fun...thanks again

[@Scramspeed]

@@Nathan-i6m I probably wouldn't mess with underdrive pulleys. There are undersized balancers, but they're not really a budget item. The water pump pulleys are also not readily changed. Alternator overdrives are available, but I've tested my car multiple times and the alternator makes zero difference in ET going down the track. I don't know about the viability of going the budget route for a torque converter and how well it would work out. A lot of times that method trades so-so 60' for a lot of slip and heat down track. A good converter, set up for your combination is some of the cheapest ET you will ever buy.

[@Nathan-i6m]

I got use to the old sbf 5.0 .there still $50-$75 steel or aluminum...I guess there's a chevy underdrive pulley conspiracy. Or something 😅. I couldn't find any reasonable for sbc or ls..thanks man

[@ericwilson2585]

I've got an L33 in a Trail Blazer in my front yard that has a bad cam and I'm really considering putting it in my 90' Jeep Grand Wagoneer, and everybody's like, wouldn't it be a lot better if you swapped over the 4L60e trans and electronic fuel injection system also? I'm like, are you crazy? I'd have to install the whole wiring harness and ECM, still adapt the trans to the transfer case, and then change out both of the axle gears because the stock 2.70:1 axle ratios do not work with the overdrive 4th gear in the 4L60e..... So I'm wanting to just adapt it to the original transmission, buy an MSD, an intake, and just fabricate my own engine mounts, plop on a decent 4bbl carb, make up a decent dual exhaust and be on my way.

[@Scramspeed]

Sounds like a plan!

[@zackpowerusa]

Nice fat double pumper on top of an LS is such a beautiful sight.

[@Scramspeed]

We certainly think so!

[@betoo0311]

Did you do a custom ignition tuning to your msd box? Or you’re operating it on the “truck” setting ?

[@Scramspeed]

We always use a custom map. Thanks!

[@betoo0311]

@@Scramspeed mind sharing ?

[@savagenomore]

when someone ask my why I do something I say "because I wanted to"

[@Scramspeed]

amen to that!

[@John-ze4qy]

Awesome,glad this popped up on FB.I went right to you tube to find it and b a sub!! Cant wait for mor info!

[@whitewolf30f]

Carburetor is EMP-proof for the win.

[@TheReal_DandB]

Great explanation and thank you for that

[@JohnSmith-xx1lx]

My question is does it matter which generation engine you get, example 2004 4.8 vs 2008 4.8...?

[@Scramspeed]

You can use either one. The MSD 6014 comes with a harness for 24x and 58x reluctor, so you could use either engine. My understanding is that a 2008 4.8 has a better chance of having better heads.

[@doingmorewithlessmotorspor8951]

Lm7 carb swap here needing help with timing curve msd 6014 box and help or advice I turned off map 15 degrees inital and 24 degrees total motor feels sluggish any advice on timing curves for ls ?

[@Scramspeed]

Oddly, the carbureted LS engines want to a ton more timing than EFI. It is very common for them to want 30-35 degrees of total timing. My advice would be to start at 28 on the dyno or at the track and check for mph or horsepower improvements as you go up. It would not surprise me if you ended up at 33 or so. There should be a profound horsepower increase between 24 and wherever you end up. What's your A/F ratio at WOT?

[@Daddy-wan-kenobi]

Great straight forward vid

[@Scramspeed]

Thanks! Hope it helps!

[@craigmccall7450]

CSU. King of blow through.

[@332ARA]

I'd like to see a real time tuning video working with the 6014

[@Scramspeed]

That's a great idea for a video. I'm going to put one together this spring.

[@332ARA]

@@Scramspeed That would be awesome. There really is not much out there

[@mfam2371]

Hey thanks for the info. You said all it takes is 4 wires to run an efi engine with a carb? I was just curious how that works and what msd system I can use so that the original coils work. I don't want to switch to a distributor. I'm using a 4.6 2v as my engine. I have a carb and it's built for all motor so I figure instead of swapping it into my V6 body and having to get a new ECU and other electronics, I can just carb swap it and pop her right in the car

[@Scramspeed]

This is a Ford 4.6 mod motor? What I said was applicable to LS engines. On the LS engines, the box plugs into all the factory sensors and coils and requires hook up on only a few wires. We will have a video coming soon. MSD does make a box for 4.6 mod motors that appears to work much in the same way, but we have no current personal experience with them.

[@mfam2371]

@@Scramspeed you know what model number that is. Thanks

[@Scramspeed]

@@mfam2371 It is MSD part # 6011.

[@mfam2371]

@@Scramspeed thanks! Found it.

[@larryseals6089]

I am going carb because i don't want mine towed to house all the time.I can fix a carb on side of road.When snsors or injectors go bad you are stuck like chuck.Dependability is why i am doing carb.I just need 6014 box to finish mine up.I started off with in tank fuel pump thats 50 psi.Do i have to run a line back to tank off of regulator or will it work good from 50 psi to 7 psi just fine?

[@Scramspeed]

Well, if you need a 6014 box, we've got red and black in stock, free shipping, and include an LSX T-shirt! www.scramspeed.com/products/msd-6014-red-ls-ignition-control.html Yes, you will need to run a return line back to the tank with a return style regulator. Depending on the regulator you have, it may not regulate down to 7 psi at all. Lots of guys it seems are getting a return regulator to go down to 15 or so with a return back to the tank, and then a regular carb regulator on the output side to get the last 8-10 psi the carb wants. Hope this helps. Questions, call the shop~!

[@jivan1348]

I have a ls swap 5.3 with Howard’s rattler cam I have the idle set to 1,100 but in gear it drops to 300 rpm any advice

[@Scramspeed]

This sounds like a torque converter being too tight.

[@anthonypesqueira7540]

You need a loose converter. Make sure your gears match too or you'll have a dog.

[@morrismontgomery5239]

I want to put a carburetor on my lq4, what do I need

[@Scramspeed]

We can help! We've got everything you need. Feel free to give us a call at 855-896-5263 or 217.590.0128

[@RobbysHobbies93]

I can tune a carb myself don't have to take it to a tuner and hand him all my money 😂

[@Scramspeed]

It's a big deal, though a lot of people do like to have a tuner to blame! 😄

[@RobbysHobbies93]

@@Scramspeed I mean it was that guys fault 😂

[@bdd1469]

Led Zeppelin, did you really have to go there? You could have just compared Jane to we built this city.

[@Scramspeed]

haha, sorry man, I was talking from the hip, and I thought everyone knew that one.

[@outdamudtv]

I would luv to win

[@infamousnova]

I hope I win that box

[@carllattimore8227]

I have a 5.3/MSD6014/ carbed setup. It likes to pop out of the exhaust alot at anything above 3k rpm. There arent any intake leaks. What do you recommend?

[@Scramspeed]

There are a lot of potential causes of that issue, mechanical and electrical. Check your wiring and grounds. These setups are very particular about grounds. If it is an aluminum engine, even more so. The best troubleshooting step is to (temporarily) wire the MSD box direct to the battery and see what happens. Of course it could also be coils, cam timing, carb tune, etc.

[@rickross7257]

Worst rick song ever?hell no! It was top 10 now😂

[@Scramspeed]

Even thinking about it makes me cringe, but you're right, I'm almost certain there's worse available now.

[@ronaldreagan9018]

Bad audio

[@Scramspeed]

Thanks, we'll do better going forward.