6.5 CREEDMOOR VS 308 WINCHESTER- WE SHOOT HAMS!

We thought this was a topic that was thoroughly beat to snot but here we are! Let's do another battle of the cartridges!
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[@harlech2]

Man I have been in this game for almost 50 years. I have heard " 'X' new caliber will be the death of 'Y' old caliber " so damn many times. You know what? Yet to see it happen. Ever. The 10mm was going to retire the .357. The .40 was going to retire the 10mm and the .45 ACP. The list goes on and on and ON. Shoot what you got. Shoot what you can (relatively) inexpensively get ammo for. Shoot what ya got, often and you get good with what ya got. "I not afraid of the man with 10,000 guns, I am terrified of the man behind a gun he has fired 10,000 times." -- My Dad

[@FullCircleReloading]

ABSOLUTELY! Shoot what you got and get used to it. Jumping to a new caliber every time one comes out wont do you any favors learning it.

[@freewheelcog7206]

The quote is paraphrasing Bruce Lee, his not afraid of the man who practices 10,000 kicks once, he is afraid of the one who practice one kick 10,000 times. Your father is correct.

[@oneshotpete6.591]

@@freewheelcog7206sounds cooler with the gun analogy, his Dad quoted 🤙🏼

[@anthonygonzalez6722]

U R THE MANNN... 2nd 2 NONE .....NO BODY CAN PUT IT OUT THERE BETTER....

[@andrewnesbitt2523]

That said, it DOES happen, if rarely, every once in a while. 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO replaced .30-06 Springfield, and not long after, .308 was largely replaced by .223 Remington/5.56mm NATO for most rifles/small arms. And that's just for military rounds, not ones intended for hunting/long-range precision competition/etc. I've never understood the hate for new calibers other than being set in one's ways. Especially for the cartridges that *actually* have had some ongoing success. I understand if it's a short-lived cartridge that never took off. But some people still act like 300 Blackout and 6.5 CM are these "New-fangled, niche, flash-in-the-pan cartridges" that are "WAY more expensive!" And yet: 1) Those two have been around for 15 and 17 years, respectively 2) They're *CLEARLY* are the second-most popular intermediate/AR-15 and full-power and AR-10 cartridges after 5.56 and .308, respectively. 3) .300 Blackout is seeing TONS of adoption by special forces around the world, including US SOCOM 4) Prices are *marginally* more expensive than their counterparts (ie 300 Blk vs. 5.56 and 6.5 CM vs. .308), and in some cases no more expensive at all. I don't expect the two I mentioned to overtake their counterparts, but at the end of the day, if you don't like them, just don't buy them!

[@matthewsmith2051]

Both have their place to me 308 is the “Goldie locks” cartridge it does it all period. From deer to moose from infantry rifle to sniper rifles and even belt fed machine guns it’s the jack of all trades

[@AdaptivePrep]

Very solid practicality points.

[@billysarabia5055]

@@matthewsmith2051 definitely right

[@loboloco866]

Totally agree

[@ericv79flh]

My argument for the 308? It's what I have,

[@FullCircleReloading]

If you have it, run it! This is more educational for capability for future buyers or people who flat out say the 6.5 creed is a "fad" and 308 outperforms it.

[@stevejones3383]

Barrel life too.. 6.5 is 2800ish and 308 is 10-12k.. and when are you really shooting past 600

[@alankramer8723]

Plus ammo is plentiful for the .308. Not so for the 6.5

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@stevejones3383 I have burned up 7 6.5creed barrels in competition and have NEVER seen one fail in less than 4500…. I’ve also never seen a 308 last more than 8 in completion shooting strings.

[@benjaminbarry7767]

​@alankramer8723 that's one of the main reasons why I have what I have

[@ThorrRA3793]

As long as we have centerfire cartridges the 308 will never die

[@diver0129]

All I can say is... Never trust someone who carries a 6' tape.

[@joshua3113]

I wouldn't say it's a dead cartridge myself. It's still doing exactly what it's been doing for 70 years or so. Also you could probably find a box of 308 in most countries you're going to hunt in. That being said I went ahead and covered the bases and just got one of each. 308 gas gun and a 6.5 bolt gun. Gotta love America!

[@gconnoyer]

Never hurts to have both!

[@FullCircleReloading]

Both is the answer.

[@billysarabia5055]

You’ll be SOL if you run out of ammo in southern colorado or northern New Mexico …. In Chama NM you won’t find 6.5 ammo but you will find 308 ,30ot6, 270 , 30/30, 300 win mag , 7mm ,,,pretty much all the proven stuff ,,, with the exception of 6.5 and buddy let me tell you that’s elk country not to mention the Jicarilla buck ,,,, some of them guides won’t let you hunt them J bucks with nothing less than a 30 ot 6 …most shots are 300 yards or less and the ot6 has that slam knock down power needed for them big old muleys….

[@8FunGuy8]

Reasons to pick 308 1 NATO (available everywhere) 2 cost 3 get a POF Revolution DI in 308, and have a lightweight fast shooting gun for 90% of realistic shooting. If 6.5 was everywhere and half the price, it would be better in the real world.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

[@HighVizEconomist]

and better on barrels

[@kendallyoder612]

Cost is so close I wouldn’t count that as one and if you’re in the US you can get 6.5 anywhere I’m ordering it off buds for like 20 bucks a box and it’s not the cheapest box they have

[@jonathancaldwell-km5ig]

Just reload

[@roshawn1111]

​@@kendallyoder612I was about to say the same PSA also have a ton of 6.5 for cheap

[@chiefspottedhorse8721]

I hear as soon as you switch to 6.5 creed you get issued skinny jeans for free.

[@Gene-u3t]

Yeah buddy. They come attached to your new boyfriend!

[@FullCircleReloading]

With directions to tie a man bun!

[@chrisrosenthal1210]

This comment made me spit pumpkin spice latte all over the steering wheel in my Hyundai....

[@romang6437]

@@Gene-u3tare you speaking from personal experience?

[@aeropixx]

And a dozen pair of pink panties

[@Dfleuryoutdoors]

A TKM expands rapidly , an SMK does not. The 6.5 didn't hit harder, it just had a better bullet.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We mentioned that.

[@ez56789]

​@FullCircleReloading u didnt "mention it". U neglected to point out the difference between a soft polymer point, essentially a low grade hollow function MEANT for expansion, vs a hard nosed round meant for penetration, no shit the 6.fagmore tumbled and took chunks with it while the 308 zipped right through. 🤡

[@scarsman]

Exactly. SMK is famous for just punching clean holes. It's a paper bullet, not a terminal ballistics bullet. As far as terminal ballistics go, it's essentially a FMJ. The TMK is specifically designed for terminal ballistics.

[@andrewlightbody4221]

​​@@FullCircleReloadingNo y'all didn't!!! Y'all said they were very similar bullets lol. Don't lie... it's on video.

[@MikeBrown-dq2ge]

Bullshit😂

[@juansoto4654]

All my guns and calibers are geared for a shtf scenario so I went with 308.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@campingmaster2004]

​@mrs.vasquezz you laugh but it makes sense, though 6.5cm is common af and you could probably just as easily find ammo for it

[@mrs.vasquezz]

@@campingmaster2004 i laugh cause shtf is a fantasy

[@Ron-ni8uu]

​@@campingmaster2004I wish shtf was a fantasy I stopped a civil war in January this year. Happened at a gun show in Asheville nc love you we almost all died

[@campingmaster2004]

@mrs.vasquezz shtf doesn't mean end of world smh. Just a shitty situation tp where things may be different for a bit. Could something like the US isn't getting imports anymore and the stores are empty, could be a huge tornado pr hurricane comes by and the power is gonna be out for a few weeks. Or a huge forest fire. Shtf doesn't mean end of world or huge world War. Just a scenario that would make things more difficult than normal

[@rudolphferdinand3634]

Mountains, Mullets, Merica .308 vs. 6.5 CM - 16" barrels-DMR Duel! You need to see what this guy does with 16" barrels with both rifles, the .308W projectile 169-grain SMK, and .264 144-grain projectile, see the results. The .308W still has it! You will be amazed.

[@gconnoyer]

His channel is awesome! And he’s a great shooter especially with the less than benchrest accuracy setups!

[@evanm.gerber8253]

Mountains, Mullets, Merica is definitely worth watching. His comparison showing the 16" 308 shooting a 169gr smk supersonic past 1200 yards says it all.

[@billysarabia5055]

@@evanm.gerber8253 I have no doubt ,,, I like new stuff too but when it comes to hunting it’s 22 LR,,,22WMR,,, 270 ,,,30ot6 ,,,7MMM,,,,4/10,,,and 12gage that’s my line up … I’d hunt grizz with the 7 mill mag and the right bullet plus of course the 12 loaded with slugs for just in case …. I had a buddy that had a big ol bramma bull ,,,this bull was a big boy and was fearless…he could clear 5 foot pipe fence like nothing and did it anytime he felt like visiting the cattle in the area ,,,he would beat the shit out of other folks bulls ,,get at their cattle and when your neighbor is building a herd of pure breeds ,,,he tends to get very pissed off to find a big old ugly black ,,white brown and a bit of yellow looking bull in with the pure breed stock he’s building so here we go on horseback to get ol Dickson ,,,and let me tell you soon as Dickson knew the score ,,he’d turn and come at you so it took at least 3 good fast experienced horses and riders cause this bull would hurt you and your horse if you slipped up and it was all about getting 3 ropes on him and finding a telephone post to get him tied to then bring the trailer,,, that was the eisest way…. Well that day shit went south real fast and Dickson knocked over my bud and his horse threw a fence … the horse got cut up pretty good and that SOBin bull still rolled the horse over by hitting it a second time…. Here we go back to the house for the shottie with slugs in it … my bro was so mad he walked into the pasture and as usual here comes Dickson my bro waited till he was about 15 feet and went to knocking holes in ol Dickson,,, 4 quick shots and that was the end of that … But what a slug dose to flesh is unbelievable,,,just knocks holes a good 14 inches deep and like you could push a golf ball right in it at least 12 inches deep ,,,,slugs are nothing to play with ,,,they do the job weather it’s a bear or a killer bull… the funny thing here is Dickson was hand raised and played with kids when he was young but somewhere along the line he just got to where he was deadly

[@GallOGlaigh993]

Still sticking with my Daisy Red Rider chambered in .177 Gisele trigger and Barska tactical red dot with Arch angel stock. Looking at going suppressed.

[@FullCircleReloading]

#longrangeperfection lol

[@bobwiley6221]

Just be careful you don' t shoot your eye out! Ralphie

[@grannydeen1586]

Me too. Composite stock, muzzle brake, no recoil whatsoever.

[@billysarabia5055]

With what ,,,a beer can ???

[@billysarabia5055]

Ay my bros we use to have BB gun fights when I was real young ,,, we are lucky we never took out an eye or something like that but the rule was legs only … this is no shit ,,, I use to take ,,,with permission my dads 22 savage,,the long gun type …and I’d go hunting at 11 years old alone …. And I shit you not I saw a female jaguar and a kit on the … I had said where but thought better to delete that …but I saw them for awhile,,,once the mom saw me one day ,,,that was it I never saw them again… they had been living in a car that was half buried from a flood years past … but that’s no shit … I’ve been going where other folks won’t go for 40 some years ,,,and hunting rifles,,, I know them all … I guess that’s why when I hear some fool in skinny jeans say the 6.5 is taking over this caliber and that caliber,,,I’d like to just slap some sense into them …. The 6.5 has its place but it’s by far no great all around go to caliber… it’s for dam sure not the best for hunting any animals where I come from … hell I’d take the Daisy over the creed any day…haaa

[@colinkobel2868]

Well done fellas! This was a perfect illustration of what an ethical shot really is and is not. As a hunter and I emphasize HUNTER, if you can’t get within 300 yds., then have enough respect for the animal to not take the shot.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We don't disagree. My personal cap is 400 given conditions are ideal. We appreciate the view and comment!

[@midnightblue69]

Love this

[@oysteink-q9c]

The average hunter shouldnt take longer shots than 120-130 yards. I agree that for a well trained hunter, 300m is a sensible limit, with the right caliber. If you cant get closer, you need to practice stalking, not buy a new long-range gun. In my location every hunter has to pass a shooting test yearly, where you shoot at a caribou-sized target at 100m. You need to put 5 rounds inside a 30cm circle, position of choice (prone/sitting/standing) but no bipod, tripod or other support. Most shooters should have no trouble doing this, but almost half of the hunters require two tries or more. Hunters here are required to shoot 30 practice shots before the test, and for many average hunters thats all the shots they fire in a year. The law also requires the rifle/cartridge to be able to deliver 2200J at 100m, with a 140 grain bullet (120 grain for lead-free/copper bullets). From the hunting videos I have seen from the US, I suspect there are a lot of animals that are shot at 300-600 yards only to creep off and die and never be found. Of course THOSE videos never make it to youtube. It is highly unethical. Hell, even finding the spot where you hit an animal at 400 yards can be very very tricky, unless you have a tracking dog. In most countries, if you shoot and there is blood, you are paying for the animal, wether it is found or not. In other words, dont take the shot unless you have a high certainty of making a killing shot. In my location it is also mandated by law to have a contract with a tracking dog/handler, and you are legally obliged to track an animal for as long as possible if blood is found. Tracking an animal for 1-2 miles is very common, 5 miles is not uncommon. And this is with most hunters limiting themselves to 150m. If people started shooting at 300-500m, the amount of tracking would increase exponentially.

[@loboloco866]

You are a professional hunter YES SIR respect the animal hunt only for food not for sports or trophy.

[@midnightblue69]

@@oysteink-q9c it all depends on where you are located. My average shot with a rifle or muzzleloader is likely about 50-80 yards because that's all the forest allows. I've definitely heard of some reckless hunters, but the vast majority put thought and effort into location and their plan and are well within 300. IMHO, this 6.5 Creedmore is the worst thing to happen to hunting, it's losing popularity by the hour but right now more animals are lost to it than the next several calibers combined. I would tend to think that a deer or bigger hit by it in the liver at 300 yards will live another day before sepsis kills it, everyone likes to talk about what a round CAN do, not what could happen or often happens. The American Indians hunted with spears and primitive archery but as soon as rifles became available they became kindling because the object was to take game as quickly and ethically as possible. Seems people are going backwards now.

[@BRAVO_FOUR_06-13]

308 will never die. The 500 yard energy it delivers in a short action. The versatility (in the design and in the projectile weights it can deliver). The barrel life. Availability. It just does too much too well to ever be irrelevant.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Agree, it wont ever die. Not while being a NATO supported caliber

[@2Dawoods]

Killed a buck with my 308 this year (100 yards) but I don't always use it. Killed another at 625 yards with a 6.5 PRC too. I started hunting 30 years ago and started with a 308 because I was use to it in the USMC. The first few years I used match ammo to hunt, (i didnt know better) and my hits where like your 308 hit in the Video. little hole not a lot of damage and I lost one deer and had long tracking on others. It didn't occur to me the 308 match ammo I was using was not mushrooming and doing damage. Moved to a hunting round, I like scirocco bonded these days snd the beasts are falling. Great vid! thanks guys!

[@grizinart9599]

My last Buck at 572 yards with 6.5 PRC literally dropped in his tracks.

[@KenardCleghorn]

Built a 6.5x06 years ago w 4 barrels Iam on my last barrel nothing the prc has on it Ballistics there pretty much the same endless brass cheeper 56 gr rl 26 q140 Berger’s.90 gr v max -160 s. 120- 130-140

[@physicalstarfighter2131]

308 cheaper more accessible, which means easier to find more of it and still does the job

[@FullCircleReloading]

We are a literal retail store who sells this stuff for a living….they are the same price if you buy the same kind of ammo.

[@aaronmcfee506]

Not in canada

[@fredstah714]

It’s the person who is behind that caliber that matters the most. Period.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We agree but reading through these comments...my guess is most guys have never shot past 300yds...

[@jreyman]

I have a similarly equipped .308, and a 6.5 Creedmoor. The .308 is cheaper to feed, and definitely easier to find ammo for. Up to a certain point both are very good, after that, the ballistic coefficient of the 6.5 Creedmoor obviously has the advantage (less drop/less drift). I wouldn't say .308 is dead, but it does have a modern successor.

[@rudygeorgiamulesandcountry1594]

I'm getting 3,200 fps with 130 gr. in my .308 W .

[@brianhewitt1054]

Energy on target is due to the difference in a tipped and non-tipped projectile. Both rifles are very comparable with 6.5 making a less experienced shooters life easier.

[@SneakySniperGuy]

Remember guys….. the banter everyone is throwing back and forth is AMAZING! To the haters of our 1st & 2nd amendments… (pardon our noise debating and shooting…. ITS THE SOUND OF FREEDOM)! I’ve personally fired the 308 well over 150K rounds solely in the Military. Starting at SSS/USMC, multiple deployments and then to contract work. Sadly, I’ve only fired approximately 3,200 6.5’s. It is in my humble opinion, a fantastic round. I’m impressed with it actually. This video is top shelf and I became a subscriber today. Opinions…. I’m throwing this to the guys open enough to catch it a give opinions. Those simply screaming their chosen round is the best and everyone else is an idiot can drink a nice big cup of STFU. Having shot at Camp Perry matches for 15 years, shooting when it counts in austere environments with ZERO humidity but high temps, and teaching for the State Dept, for me (only attributing my skill level to laying down behind a rifle and working through all Peccadillos each of us carry “well, that’s what my grandpa taught me so it’s gotta be right”). I feel most of us watching this video, in its entirety, can be considered a very low percentile of actual ‘shooters’. I value my 30-06 and will hold those memories close as that was my first rifle (handed down by my grandpa). Yep. A few deer were harvested. So, back to all of us. I am, regardless of the combative nature some may display, we are at the tip of the spear so to speak. Each one adding content to a channel (fantastic one at that), gives a shit. We could all, if martial L was declared, lay down behind a “found” .243/30-06/6.5 or .308 and successfully hunt for our families and defend against those intending to harm us and destroy the fabric of what we as built well before we were here. .308 is a highly distributed round (Rick- National Sales Mngr/Remington)(6.5 450k at this point) told me personally they produce 5M base line .308’s annually (nothing high end/match grade…. Just the basic). I would push most novice shooters looking for their first rifle to go that route (ammo quantity will push novice shooters to practice more, plus vast amounts by multiple manufactures keep prices relatively lower if we can consider the price gouging we are being forced upon us). 6.5 is a premier round and impressive. A first time buyer with a hunger to do well and will study what it takes to be successful at shooting can chose a 6.5 with equal success as buying a .308. For me, both cartridges will find many bad guys released appropriately. I vote team all of us everyday because the caliber of people watching a channel like this are all someone I feel I could trust to be able to, after 2 rounds, put all rifles on the “x”. Keep up the great work boys! Great video!

[@FullCircleReloading]

Excellent write up! Thank you for the comment!

[@gconnoyer]

Thanks for taking the time to type all that and watching!

[@jasonkinsler]

Man, that was one hell of a write up!!!! Thanks for sharing that.

[@hmfc2005]

Great to hear you boys talking ethics - use a .308 Sako 20 inch barrel zeroed at 100m on deer in Scotland, fast 123gr sako factory ammo, know every mil click for ranged distances and always shoot within capabilities and conditions. Got a TAC A1 in 6.5CM 24 inch barrel pinging 140gr Hornady Match ELD at steel plates at distances, best of both worlds! Great wee film, very engaging.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Ethics are something that need more discussion, not less. The amount of hunters who come into our shop every year with reason they missed will make your stomach turn. A LOT of wounded animals out there.

[@tommcclelland119]

Thanks guys. From Alabama so hunting power lines and the brush a 30-30 to a 30-06 was great. Been living in Colorado for past 21 years. I started out hunting with a 308, but nowadays both me and my 2 sons hunt Proghorn, mule deer, and elk with a 7mm mag. Sometimes my oldest son will hunt mule deer with my old 308. Thanks for sharing this video.

[@FullCircleReloading]

No problem! I’m glad you enjoyed it.

[@tommcclelland119]

@ just subscribed. My kinda channel. I look forward to seeing more of the same. Would love to see how the 7mm compares to other similar calibers. I’m an old Navy Veteran.

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@tommcclelland119which 7mm? I’d like to do a 308 V 6.5 V 7-08 video. If you have other cartridges in mind, let us know and we can put them on the schedule.

[@tommcclelland119]

@ wow. That’s very interesting. We use the Remington 7mm with the model 700 bolt action. My ride is decades old, but clean as a whistle. Anything you do with comparable calibers would be awesome. What got you into this channel? Are you guys Vets? X-cops?

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@tommcclelland119we are competitive long range shooters and own a retail store. Most of the things we post are based on questions we get every single day at the shop. We are vets but that’s not what got us into the industry. Just dumb luck meeting the right guys who talked us into competing. lol.

[@Head-Tr1ck]

Having both is the right answer.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We agree!! We own both lol

[@ExtraMedium-]

A silly argument- get both!

[@FullCircleReloading]

FINALLY! A reasonable comment lol

[@gregory3592]

Like the AR & AK argument...get both ☝🏾💯😆

[@MrZachzippo]

Thank you for an excellent comparison.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thank you for watching!

[@REDNECKROOTS]

For hunting ethical distances, the 308 has been getting it done with authority for long time. The 308 kills game more effectively as well. If ya wana shoot paper at long range the creedmore is king. 😊

[@danielburke6534]

I bet they said the same thing about muskets.

[@codycreager4428]

Clown comment

[@mr.joshuah1412]

@@codycreager4428 6.5 is for White Dudes For Harris lol

[@REDNECKROOTS]

@codycreager4428 no it's the facts! Un disputable facts. Your man bun must be pulled to tight , cutting off blood flow to your 🧠

[@Grant-kj4eq]

@@mr.joshuah1412 We hunt here in South Africa with 308 and 6.5cm , both do the same job if you know how to shoot. We hunt Gemsbok "Oryx" and Kudu with these Calibers but I prefer to use my 300 win mag if i want to shoot a 30cal . And by the am very happy Mr Trump is back

[@mattturner568]

I have just gotten into long range shooting over the past few years and this gave me a whole new perspective on what my bullet is doing down range, I am shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 grain bullets. Thanks, this taught me a lot.

[@FullCircleReloading]

No problem! I'm glad we could help.

[@kriskyzer7912]

Thank you for the “visual” ballistic results. Too often, reality doesn’t connect with so many people. Keep the videos coming, but I’ll have to confess….my 308 is far from dead.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We figured standing on the target hanger would get peoples attention lol.....I have no plans to get rid of my 308 but it is getting long in the tooth. It's actually being phased out of the military as we speak. The new DMR gun is a creed and we are already seeing bolt variants fielded in combat.

[@AisAL321]

I thank y'all for making this video! Y'all just saved me a lot of time.

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@AisAL321 no problem!

[@codyandrus4441]

I went with a 308 gas gun because of ap bullets. I got plenty of them stocked and now i have a 6.5 gas gun because it shoots amazing. Ive only had it out to 500 yards but its so easy to shoot and shoot well.

[@WallyMerc06]

.308 is a better hunting cartridge for 90% of people in the US and you won't change my mind

[@JennaTailia_69]

They aren't miracle workers. Cant fix stupid.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We aren't here to change minds. You are entitled to your own opinion.

[@HillsPatrolTD42]

A blanket statement with nothing to support it, is not fact. It's simply your opinion. Meanwhile the ballistics and energy data are proven facts.

[@WallyMerc06]

@HillsPatrolTD42 inside 300 yards, which is what most hunters rarely shoot more than,.308 beats 6.5. Hands down at every barrel length. So yes it's better

[@HillsPatrolTD42]

@@WallyMerc06 while your statement about the .308 "beating" the Creedmoor is technically correct (define beating, by the way... energy is the only thing it's superior in. Even ballistics at that distance, while negligible, still go to the Creed), you still claim "most hunters rarely shoot more than 300" with absolutely NO data, evidence, or proof, to support that claim. Maybe YOU don't shoot more than 300, but to say MOST, with nothing to support it? Yeah, it's a blanket claim. You're probably right, but being right by chance isn't fact either, it's just getting lucky. Now, the thing that most people get confused about, and get their knickers in a twist over, is the Creedmoor was NEVER designed as a hunting cartridge. It was designed PRIMARILY as a long range precision cartridge. Which it does way better than the .308, and THAT is fact.

[@patrickteto]

308 is absolutely relevant regardless of the bac data compared to the 6.5 . 308 is a NATO round which means it's predominantly available. Where as the creedmore as much as I prefer it is not as easy to find on a shelf in the brand you're tuned to. When SHTF your going to want to have in your possession with a NATO round...

[@jasoncown]

Why

[@jjcrazylegs7081]

​@jasoncown did you not read the comment? He says why!

[@FCACTUAL69420]

@@jasoncowncan you read? Lmfaooo

[@ScrotMcDangle]

So when SHTF and you are grabbing .308 hand loads and factory ammo from peoples basement it's definitely going to be exactly the brand you are tuned to...

[@mrs.vasquezz]

Um 6.5 is adopted too goofball

[@hpjperformance2304]

Great Video! Very cool to see the comparison of the 6.5 creed at a much shorter barrel length still performing right along with the 308. Less recoil, better wind performance, and a shorter package. Seems like a win to me as long as you dont think shooting cheap mil ball ammo from 7.62x51 is "good ammo" for 308.

[@joshuaf6837]

Love the channel guys. This is one of the better ones I've found. You guys are gonna get big! Keep it up!

[@gconnoyer]

@@joshuaf6837 appreciate it sir!

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thank you for the feedback! We plan on ramping up over the winter.

[@alhicks85]

I have a 308 i picked up in '95, and I built a 6.5 during covid. I also reload, the 308 which has a lot of rds down range and whitetail in the freezer, and the 6.5 has several rds down range and two whitetails in the freezer. If I had to send some serious rds down range 6.5 would be my choice out of my two rifles.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Mine as well but I still have a soft spot for the 308

[@airborneivan]

Love both rounds, but I much prefer 6.5CM.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Nothing wrong with loving both. Despite the results, I still love the 308 I use in the video and have no plans to get rid of it.

[@stevenbietz5773]

One does not kill the other. Both of these rounds have a place and it is the use case that should be the decision factor, in my experience. I own and load both. I shoot competition and hunt across our great nation. For example, hunting whitetail in the SE in dense forest, the 308 has both more mass and energy for better takedown close in (e.g. under 300 yards). If in the West with common long shots over wide open spaces, you want the less drop of the 6.5CM, but can run out of ethical take down on larger game faster with the smaller mass and more narrow bullet. 6.5CM is also a clear winner for less wind drift in PRS competition. If you want a MUCH longer barrel life and a SHTF do it all gun with lots of easily found rounds or brass to reload, the 308 is the clear winner (e.g. Ruger Gunsight Scout). One physics note about the video is that two (potentially partially frozen as still dripping from thawing) hams is not a very good comparison or measure of energy. Lookup the energy at distances graphs as a good comparison. The 308 has the energy advantage at under 300 yards, typically, due to mass, and 6.5CM narrows the gap after with retained velocity. That higher velocity and smaller mass bullet of 6.5CM gives the 308 the win if you want to use subsonic rounds and shoot quiet with a can. . .Not an option with 6.5CM. I love both calibers and use them like tools; whatever is best for the job it needs to perform.

[@ejherrera8419]

I won’t argue the performance of the cartridge. I will however argue availability. There’s simply more options and it’s a more readily available ammunition. Also 308 will run 7.62 which then expands the opportunities. And in sports, the best ability is availability! 😉

[@FullCircleReloading]

In the context of precision rifles...Availability is the same. Match ammo isn't as prevalent ass 150gr ball and that ammo isn't relevant in any category except availability. Quality match ammo and quality hunting ammo is near equal with both.

[@ejherrera8419]

@@FullCircleReloading so you’re response to me stating that 6.5 CM performs better but there is more available ammunition overall of any type that a 308 rifle can run is that I should narrow my scope to match grade ammunition only and argue availability from that narrowed set of parameters? That sounds like a DEI argument if I’ve ever heard one!

[@danielburke6534]

@@ejherrera8419 pretty sure they said that trash ammo aside (150 grn ball), ammo availability is equal.

[@randallpickard6187]

The 308 is still a relevant caliber just like the 6.5 will always be relevant, but it's really down to a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing. You'll have person running 308 and 6.5 and this will be an ongoing debate

[@FullCircleReloading]

It will be an ongoing debate but 30% better wind performance is significant and worth mentioning.

[@JennaTailia_69]

Great video! The new intro is legit!

[@longrangeprecisionshooters8935]

That new intro is fire!!!!!!! I’m sure they paid some true artist a ton of money for that intro

[@ScrotMcDangle]

@@longrangeprecisionshooters8935 Sounds like this artist deserves pp touches!

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@longrangeprecisionshooters8935 He's a stud muffin for sure lol

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thank you for the feedback. We are slowly but surely getting better at this.

[@Scortd]

Wanted a .308 for the longest, did a bit of research ended up getting a 6.5 creedmoor with a 22" barrel. Very happy with my decision.

[@gconnoyer]

Great choice! Despite what everyone here says, its not just a centerfire BB gun. Perfectly capable

[@thomaslbryant]

I have an $850 savage, 6.5 CM with a 24” barrel and it hits 1000 yds on the first shot using hornady 140gr ELD and their 4dof calculator. Reliable little gun, bolt smooth as 15 year old driving a stick shift, but that’s what you get for less than $1k. I retired from the army this year so I’m used to 118LR and .300 winmag.

[@FullCircleReloading]

The savages leave a little to be desired on the action, but they usually are really good shooters!

[@ozarksdigitalcreations9254]

I’ve stuck with my .308 and .40 EDC that I get told regularly that I should move on from mainly because during the ammo shortages during Covid I was still able to find these 2 rounds on the shelves and stay stocked up. Being able to hit 800 yards with box ammo from Ft. Scott Munitions with a .308 savage tactical is definitely more than enough for anything I’ll need it for here in the Midwest. I have considered getting a 6.5 upper for my AR10 to swap out and have both options, but I can’t see fully replacing it.

[@brianalmy9231]

I’m in the shotgun area of Michigan so I don’t use a rifle much but when I do go out west hunting 308 is my gun, always will be, great shooting very accurate rifle.

[@FullCircleReloading]

It is a great cartridge, no doubt.

[@gregoryj.m.8985]

Everyone i've talked to that has a creed really likes it....has me eyeing a creed down at the walmart..... Thanks for the video Brothers.

[@FullCircleReloading]

No problem! Thanks for watching.

[@mauriceangly5598]

If the metric is strictly long range precision shooting, then i don't think there's a big debate, 6.5 Creed brings a number of advantages. I think it would have been worth making mention of the fact that these are weapons we are talking about. The majority of weapons owned in either caliber are acquired for the purpose of hunting and/or defense. In those areas, There are a number of advantages that .308 has such as superior energy on target at practical distances, wider selection of ammunition, larger ammunition availability, lower ammunition cost etc. Only giving the footer ".308 is dead" could point viewers who don't have a lot of knowledge and experience in the wrong direction depending on what their goals / interests are.

[@FullCircleReloading]

at 1000y, the 6.5 creed with this setup is 89ftlbs of energy behind THIS 308, with .7mil worth of wind LESS in a 10mph... At 500y it still has 1021ftlbs of energy where the 308 has 1310. Which one would you pick given you have a more capable setup in a smaller package in a real world condition?

[@mrs.vasquezz]

As long as there's at least 400ft lbs of energy I'm picking the shorter lighter configuration

[@TheRuffLifeWithBrody]

178gr Eld-x bullets in .308 have a much higher BC and still have 719ft/lbs at 1000 yards. 1486ft/lbs at 500 yards. That's nearly over the threshold of 1500ft/lbs required to take an elk at 500 yards. It also holds enough energy (over 1000ft/lbs) to take a deer out to 700 yards. Even with a 140gr high bc bullet the 6.5 creed is only going to have enough energy to take an elk out to 300 yards. And a deer out to 500 yards. If we are talking about long range match shooting, 6.5 creed has a small advantage. If we are talking about real world usage, .308 all the way

[@mrs.vasquezz]

@TheRuffLifeWithBrody that's cool and all but you should rerun your numbers at 2200 FPS

[@TheRuffLifeWithBrody]

@@mrs.vasquezz a 178gr eld-x .308 with 45.4 grains of CFE 223 powder will shoot around 2650fps out of a 20 inch barrel. Not sure where you are getting 2200 from...

[@virgilpalmer2427]

308 = black coffee 6.5 = Starbucks coffee

[@FullCircleReloading]

If you say so. Starbucks coffee is also VERY successful

[@bigballer8646]

@@FullCircleReloadingand homosexual

[@LikeCaineFromKungFu]

Starbucks is straight trash though. They are losing customers and money at exponential rates.

[@noblesgroupllc]

Funny, Starbucks is only 10% actual coffee

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

As a newer shooter reloader in the the last 15 yrs I had to decide which to buy in a bolt and chose the 6.5 after looking at the ballistics it wasn't even a question. I do like the 308 but for longer ranges the 6.5 is ahead of it. Its simple math. Now that LC Brass has torn down the .308 manufacturing building the old supply of military brass is gone was another thing to think about. I am sure that other manufacturers will be making 308 brass for years to come but LC brass was a huge amount of the supply. (Now I am just thinking outload as a reloader) I do plan to buy a 308 bolt someday just to enjoy but I love my 6.5 creed and PRC.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Definitely! There will always be 308 brass floating around, but if you buy good 6.5 brass, it will likely last you a lifetime if you're not a competition shooter or HARDCORE hobbyist.

[@jedidiahdanley1605]

308 with a 1-5 twist shooting 300 gr subsonic loads is pretty much king of the subsonic debate. And warner tool company makes a 155.5 gr Palma bullet that has a G1 bc of .589, which is .071 better bc than the 6.5 creedmoor in the video and will shoot faster... The 308 is definitely not a dead cartridge in terms of ballistic capability, but you might need to handload to see the full potential.

[@gconnoyer]

Interesting load

[@jedidiahdanley1605]

@gconnoyer yeah it's wild, but the 308 300gr has a better sectional density than the 8.6 blackout with a 300 and also smaller calibers tend to be quieter when suppressed so it's a really awesome setup for that. And supersonic it is a stellar long range cartridge with monolithic vld bullets. Further the 30-30 is still used to take elks and moose and the 308 can use any of the 30-30 bullets but with more powder... So for hunting at moderate ranges it's also capable of literally taking any game in North America. The gun guys love to hate the 308 but it's honestly one of the most versatile short action cartridges ever produced.

[@brandonhite4960]

That is what I keep watching, the 155 options have higher velocity/ BC combos than anything the creedmoor can come up with, very close to the PRC, but no one ever tests these, probably because you have to reload them?

[@Impossibly-Possible]

1-5 twist? who makes that?

[@jedidiahdanley1605]

@Impossibly-Possible Google "1-5 30 cal barrel blank" there are several companies that make the blanks, any competent gunsmith can chamber and finish the barrel. (The thing to remember is you shouldn't fire supersonic from a barrel that fast twist because some bullets fly apart upon leaving the barrel.)

[@thpxhemi5848]

I have a 6.5. Would love to get a 308. Ive shot both, love both. Unfortunately im the only income in my household and have to focus on more important things, like diapers and food and im fine with that for now. Ill pick up a 308 one day

[@FullCircleReloading]

We also own both! Nothing wrong with having options.

[@Eagle82200]

good man 👍

[@Encourageable]

Seems to me this argument is like Camaro or Mustang. It’s whatever you like. Whatever you’re shooting at is going to be dead with either.

[@skylarreese240]

I have a Tikka T3x Tac A1 in .308, and it's such a sweet shooter. My 175 smk's shoot great out to 1,000. I also have a highly-modified Ruger American Pred in 6.5 Creedmoor, and that rifle has printed half-moa groups at 800yds through the factory barrel. Both of these cartridges are fantastic in their own ways. The 6.5 will always handle the wind and gravity a little better, but the .308 is a proven round that is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[@kkswain96]

My competition gun is a 308. When I built it, the gun I went with as my barreled action was only available in .308 win and 260 rem. I went with .308, wanted a 6.5 but it wasn’t available in that caliber yet, this was in 2017. Acouple years later every factory rifle and barreled action comes in 6.5 and I was $6000 into a 308 build 😂 I still love the gun. It means a lot to me. I will own it forever. But my next custom rifle will be a 6.5.

[@gconnoyer]

Barrel swaps are cheap! My AI normally has a 26” 6mm on it for comp and coyote, but I just spin this shorty on for deer season and for fun.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Nothing wrong with the Ol 308, it just isn't king of the "do all" cartridges anymore.

[@boygirlandadad5814]

@@FullCircleReloading and to quote you, "it's dead". That is a pretty ignorant statement and you sought that kind of attention to elicit these kind of responses. Very trolling. Good job.

[@danielburke6534]

@kkswain96 why would you choose a 6.5 creed over .260 in a bolt gun? Same bullet, more brass.... the 6.5 creed was specifically designed to shoot a long heavy (130-140 gr) 6.5 bullet out of an AR 10 mag. It holds no advantage over a hand loaded .260 shooting the same bullet.

[@boygirlandadad5814]

@@FullCircleReloading oh really? From 110 grain yote swatters to 240 grain subs it sure is more "do all" than a 6.5. How's the whole 6.5 surplus ammo thing working out? (You say next) oh really? Who would even want a bunch of SHTF ammo anyways? Junk/crap/etc. How about brass? I have Lapua besides 5 gallon buckets of once fired 308. How about bullets? Selection, bulk, variety? I just watched a shootout of two high end AR's; a 6.5 and a .308. And it was interesting. Even tho the 308 had considerably more drop at 1250 yards(the 308 had a 16 bbl and the 6.5 a 20") it was much more accurate Like I said before, all you guys are is trolls looking for a fight.

[@Kievitzi]

Both calibers are very viable for hunting and in use here in the nordics, from birds to moose.

[@borngeechee7621]

Most don't hunt beyond 200 yards, especially anywhere outside of the Midwest so for the average hunter, none of that matters. What then comes into play is availability and bullet selection. I'm in the Northeast and getting a 100 yard shot is rare, so my 16in .308 is perfect and still groups well out to 300 yards.

[@FullCircleReloading]

You are absolutely right. The average hunter shouldn't even consider shooting at these distances.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

The obvious thing to do then is to rebarrel your 308 to 6.5 and get more performance in the same package

[@bertguy3068]

I personally hunt wide open areas in the western U.S. I am a HUNTER, and if I can't get close enough for an ethical 300-yard or less shot, I need to do more stalking! To me, the differences in ballistics are so minimal that I see no reason to change my entire hunting armory. Besides, I already own 3-308s. I use a bolt Howa with an 18-inch BB for deer, and it has never failed me for 1 shot, one kill. I use a 308 gas gun for pleasure shooting & target practice. Cheap NATO ammo is ALWAYS available, everywhere. I might consider adding a 6.5 to my collection, just to say I have one. Certainly not because the 308 is dead. It is certainly still relevant, costs less to feed, has a well established track record, and I already own some 308 rifles!! Just my humble opinion!!!

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thats an awesome stance on it! In my opinion, I only want to take a shot on something I can hit WHERE I am aiming at with 100% certainty. I've missed far too many 8" targets at 500y to set my limits there so unless its a crazy windy day, 400y is my mark with the 6.5creed. Unfortunately many hunters arent ethical like yourself and a hit anywhere to them is a hit. Most dont even have their rifles actually zeroed, just good enough. If you have multiple 308s, shared ammo you're stocked on, and have no issues killing with it (you definitely sound experienced to have NO trouble with 300y) then no, no reason for a switch. If you have the money and want to snag one, less recoil and better wind performance are absolutely a big upside though!

[@G31mR]

Several months ago, I bought my first centerfire since buying a new Model 700 chambered in.270 Win. That was in 1963. I had to sell it in 1970 and have only had rimfires since. I did a lot of research before this last purchase; availability and affordability of a wide variety of ammo was one criterion. Performance was another, of course. I settled on the .308 Win. I believe I made the right choice.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Theres nothing "wrong" with the 308, the 6.5 Creed just offers performance advantages over it.

[@cazorp]

Good comments on the ethical aspect of hunting, keep it up!

[@FullCircleReloading]

from the comments section, it might be the MOST important part of the video. Lots of emphasis on "energy" and myths held near and dear because grandpa read them a field and stream magazine. Lots of gutted runoff deer by the looks of it.

[@MHBomber2024]

I’ve shot both a lot . If all things ballistically came out the same then the lowest recoil wins. You will see a big difference between the two. It’s a lot easier to see impacts with the 6.5 CM for me .

[@FullCircleReloading]

absolutely correct. Better down range performance with less recoil... What is there not to like

[@MountainsMulletsMerica]

Great video! Love what you’re doing with this channel!

[@gconnoyer]

Thank you sir!! From the comments, Apparently we have 10 spin off videos to do. Same weight bullets, closer weight bullets, lighter for 308 and heavier for 6.5, equal length barrels, longer 6.5 with a shorter 308, matching bullets, ballistics gel instead of meat to simulate shooting meat, 308 vs 408CT, and long range shooting with the cheapest ammo we can find?

[@MountainsMulletsMerica]

@@gconnoyeryeah man the possibilities are endless less. Folks love this kind of content! I’ll be here to watch them!

[@popeye089]

If you reload and can afford the rebarreling, creed or 260 Remington. If you don’t reload and like a longer barrel life 308. Also I reloaded the 308 with a 185 Berger pushing speed, and it was a 6.5 killer. But recoil is also a factor.

[@FullCircleReloading]

I've used the 185 out of a 24" barrel. It still doesn't beat a full length creed pushing 135 or 140 class bullets. The BC on the 144 Berger Hybrid is a .655G1/.336G7 VS the Juggernaut 185 at .555G1/.284G7 and the creed is pushing 2800 with no pressure. I love my 308 but past 800yds, it's not even close.

[@popeye089]

@ never used the 144 myself. But if you don’t reload, the 308 is hard to beat. Found easily and barrel life is a plus for those who aren’t deep in the game.

[@ScrotMcDangle]

Another banger of a video! Watching @gconnoyer running for ammo may have been my favorite part.

[@MIKENonya-j1l]

Greg doesn't need ammo. When the deer see him they just pass out because all the blood rushes from their brain to their third leg.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

@@MIKENonya-j1l 🤣

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thanks for the feedback! It made me laugh so it made the cut lol

[@loboloco866]

Outstanding review, excellent, thanks a lot.

[@FullCircleReloading]

appreciate you watching!

[@astang1072]

There’s no argument either way for ammo availability. Every shop that I’ve been to recently, big or small, had both. And for end of world/armageddon scenarios, you won’t find ANY ammo ANYWHERE so it’ll come down to your stock. I like 6.5: I wasn't already set up with 308 and the recoil and range benefits make more sense.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We agree...the comment section...not so much lol

[@camonly849]

6.5cm in my experience is just superior for distance. Less drop, less wind drift, higher hit percentage on target. At 990 my buddies 308 had 4.5 moa of wind hold and my 6.5 had 2-2.5 moa. 6.5cm retains more energy once you start to hit the 400yd range. 6.5 is my favorite.

[@FullCircleReloading]

6.5 creed beats the 308win by 30% in wind. Our experience has directly mimicked yours. Guys miss due to wind. Better wind and less recoil is a winning combo for sure.

[@kanehoward7050]

And to think a 270 Win still outperforms your 6.5cm....😂

[@Runandgun13]

@@kanehoward7050 How so?

[@kanehoward7050]

@anthonyj5298 270 Win beats 6.5cm in every way. Flies faster, drops less and hits harder... 🤷🏼 Just checked ammo prices and they're about the same.

[@Runandgun13]

@@kanehoward7050 i wonder why no one talks about 270 then. used a lot of rounds and guns but 270 isn't one.

[@rohanmattheus6367]

Personal preference. Buy what you like.

[@gconnoyer]

Absolutely, the 6.5 creed just has more to like!

[@FullCircleReloading]

I don't disagree with this. If you like it, run it! The amount of guys trying to stomp their feet and argue why their Ballistically inferior cartridge is better is a different argument.

[@obrienjar1]

The energy delivered out of a 308 out to 300 yards on a deer with fairly mild recoil makes it relevant now and in the future. Seems to me the 7mm 08 and 6.5 creedmore have similar characteristics. Whats the difference thats gives the 6.5 creedmore the hype over the 7 mm 08?

[@FullCircleReloading]

Almost nothing. The 7-08 is WILDLY underrated and should be more popular than it is. It's a shame the 308 has the reputation is does and the 7-08 is so unknown.

[@hstone-kf7su]

Have both, will still grab the 6.5prc when heading out though. Variety is the spice of life.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

6.5 prc is a third-party?

[@FullCircleReloading]

The PRC is one of my favorites.

[@Starcraft98marine]

From my research into 6.5 cartridges in ww2, particularly the American 1895 Lee navy and Japanese Arisaka, both were considered highly accurate with the goal sometimes used to pierce the hulls of small craft boats. Both sides noted a lack of lethality (w/ fmj) as the bullets were so “slippery” they often went straight through combatants. Wiki notes this as well, “The 6.5 mm Japanese round was later criticized as being under-powered in comparison to other contemporary military cartridges such as the .30-06, .303 British, 7.92×57mm Mauser, and 7.62×54mmR.”

[@ManPantsRandy]

Ever hear of the Zhemao hoaxes? Over 200 articles on Wiki that were all completely made up and unnoticed for years. People can write whatever they want on Wiki which is why no school allows it as a valid source for research.

[@MIKENonya-j1l]

Wiki is not a valid source for any academic research.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Comparing a cartridge designed in the late 1800s with poor BC and FMJs isn't a valid argument for lethality. Bullet selection matters and there wasn't much for options back then.

[@Thevoiceofsomething]

1. Don't make the mistake of denying the information. While wiki isn't a good source for academic research, youtube is not an academic business/place. Read the quote he states, sounds like it came directly from some ww2 historical textbook that some one put on wiki. 2. Bullet choice does matter, quite a bit. Back in the late 1800s, bullet selection was indeed very poor, but for warfare it was even more lacking as the Hague convention of 1899 was quite problematic. Also of note, was the invention and adoption of spitzer bullets after 1904. Which tells why a 6.5 would be highly accurate, but ineffective on soft targets, relatively high bc (for the time) FMJs with little mass and girth going really fast tend to do little damage. Also to note, is the fact he is discussing ww2 cartridges out of a model 1895 gun. 3. Since on the topic of bullet selection, why on earth would you admit to using an OTM bullet on an animal. I'm glad the story ended with a DRT shot, but it is a known fact that OTM bullets are made for precision, not hunting. Their construction basically equates to that of an FMJ, which isn't only unethical to use, in most places is illegal to hunt with. 6:44

[@Craig-ory]

@@Thevoiceofsomething Just because something sounds like its copied from a textbook doesn't mean it is. Anyone can write whatever they want on wiki. You sound like your parents are siblings. Doesn't mean I should make the assumption that its right although it probably is.

[@Zer0Edits00]

I just took a muley buck w a 6.5 creed BTHP bullet, great expansion with a huge exit cavity, dropped right where it was not even a step in any direction. No matter what the haters say, it works, and I wasn’t even using the best bullet available

[@FullCircleReloading]

It does, and shot placement is HUGE. Most hunters think its "energy"

[@Zer0Edits00]

@ exactly. Energy matters on shots like the high shoulder shot where the shockwave energy can fracture the spine and drop the animal where it is. I’m sure a deer CAN be dropped with a 17 HMR if it dodges the ribcage and hits straight through the heart/lungs, might just take a while for it to go down. Great video guys.

Whatever works for you is best for you! If you jump around with this and that! You are setting yourself up for a missed shot. As I get older I have taped the drop on the butt so I don't screw it up on each rifle. What I like about the 30 cal is there is a wide range of bullets, and they still make collets to use smaller bullets. only for 30 cal.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We were told once when we first got into long range to “fear the man with one rifle who knows how to use it” I agree that cartridge selection matters less than just making sure you are out training.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

That's a good idea but it shows you know very little about ballistics, the drop on your rifle this week will probably be different by next deer season because the temperature and humidity and angle of the shot, and the wind all play into whether or not you have the correct dope dialed

@@mrs.vasquezz LMAO! That has nothing to do with a side by side comparison! As the weather would be the same for both rifles! So weather and drop are irrelevant when talking about side by side acracy of two same rifles. Again it is what that weapon likes. What works for one does not work for all! Just one of those absolute facts!

[@mrs.vasquezz]

👍🏻👍🏿

[@charlesludwig9173]

Both are accurate. 6.5 is better in wind. .308 has longer barrel life. What does this mean. The .308 is best for LR training and the 6.5 is better for wins in changing wind conditions. That’s it. This is my perspective as an American High Power Rifleman in Long Range Award Winner. BTW, comparing these two cartridges the most similar results will be 140 grain SMK in 6.5 to 175 grain SMK in .308.

[@gconnoyer]

Which funny enough is why both of these exist. The 308 is a trainer, the 6.5 is for killing

[@FullCircleReloading]

Why would the 140 be more similar? The BC of the 140smk is .535 G1 and the 175 bc is .496 G1. Outside of a very slight energy difference, the 308 gets beat pretty badly by that bullet, especially in the normal barrel length range the creed comes in.

[@charlesludwig9173]

⁠@@FullCircleReloadingthe MOA wind constant of the .308 is about 10-12 at 1000 yards when loaded with the 175 grain SMK. That’s as good as it gets for .308. The 140 grain loaded in 6.5 yields an MOA wind constant of about 16 at 1000 yards which is best it gets from 6.5, thus, this is as similar these carts can get in LR competition, meaning the 6.5 will always deliver better wind resistance and more X-Ring hits in variable unobservable wind conditions. Interestingly enough the 6.5 CM is still not a High Master Shooter’s choice since the 6.5/284 has an MOA wind constant of about 20 at 1000 yards, effectively allowing the shooter to get MOA at 1000 yards when the wind is misread in the 1-3 mph range.

[@FullCircleReloading]

@ the 6.5 bullet just flat outperforms the 30 cal. You are correct that it’s still not the choice for pure performance as the long actions just deliver better results.

[@Gene-u3t]

Good stuff! Keep the videos coming!

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thanks for the feedback! Keep an eye on the channel. We have a bunch in the pipeline and are ramping up the video schedule.

[@Firearms_united]

I love my 6.5 creed. But my 308. Dmr is a great rifle to. I think both calibers have purpose.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We don't disagree with that. The comment section seems to forget that the 308 in the video is our personal rifle.

[@ericg4838]

Only thing is, if prices are still around the same. Target shooting will be little less for a 308 than 6.5 creed but probably not by a huge amount. Both are great hunting or target rounds! Could be wrong though, that’s just cost of ammo in my area…

[@scotterdog1036]

Thank you for a very entertaining and informative video and the comments were fun too. I'm new to the sport and I'm just finishing up an AR build in .308 but I've never shot one yet. It seems to me that the 30% less recoil would be of more value for a gas gun.

[@FullCircleReloading]

and 30% less wind drift. The comments are a dumpster fire lol. Thank you for watching.

[@richardholt3191]

Physics says the drops should be the same for the same muzzle velocities. Seems like the drop difference must be associated with the projectile BC? Correct?

[@m4rvinmartian]

*In a weird way. Ever play with a hose, arcing it up to water a tree or bush in the yard so your lazy butt doesn't have to move? lol* *It doesn't make it... so you put your finger over the end to increase the pressure, which increases the speed the water comes out, which makes it hit the tree.* Kinda the same thing with the arcing and the speed.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Correct. The 6.5 projectiles run a much higher BC than much heavier 30 cl bullets. By the time we made it to 600yds, the 6.5 was taking over the 308 even though the 308 started with a much higher velocity at the muzzle.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

Maybe in a vacuum but when you're talking about drag the shape of the bullet plays an enormous role

[@totenfurwotan4478]

Gross over simplification

[@Craig-ory]

@@totenfurwotan4478 The simple minds need simple metaphors.

[@kevinmann3063]

Don’t give up on the 308! Of course ballistically it is giving up some to the 6.5 creedmoor… Put a 28” barrel on the 308 and run 200.20x Bergers going 2620 and redo the test 😉 Hammered my ORYX @ 550 yards with the 200.20x! DRT The 200.20 is also very stable through transonic so those mile shots are predictable…

[@gconnoyer]

I’d just do a 28” with 147s at 2750

[@HDBujutsu1775]

😂😂😂😂

[@trentonhollis3197]

Anything above 22 in barrel on a 308 is pointless because after 22 inches the powered is already fully burned after 22 inches their is nothing left to burn, hits why you don’t see anything longer on match rifles, or guns you can buy. Very few companies make a 24 in 308, and match competitions 20-22 in is the norm. The military doesn’t even issue them with anything above 22 inches for the 308

[@larkop6504]

We run 308s in 32 &34" Barrels, plenty of distance and accuracy although all barrels were sub 1 moa. In the UK we got to jump through all kinds of hoops to have anything more than a slingshot, think they are illegal also now. All while the barbarians are coming over the border assisted by government.

[@FullCircleReloading]

We can do the same thing to the creed my man. I can put a 28" barrel on the creed and run the 153.5 Berger at the same speed. BC on the 153 is .356 and the BC on the 200.20x is .328 meaning the creed STILL wins.

[@predatorhuntingobsession5104]

People who don’t understand long range shoot can’t wrap their minds around the amount of drop we compensate for. We’re doping feet not inches.

[@FullCircleReloading]

JuSt AiM aT tHE tOp oF tHE bAck lol... for real though. Based off the comments section, most of these guys have never shot past 300.

[@sm65-wj2bc]

The drop at 500 to 1000 really is crazy when you actually measure it out.

[@TheStevenstatzer]

@@FullCircleReloading And seeing how I haven't I'm keeping opinions to myself and taking notes for when I buy a long range rifle.

[@RARufus]

If someone is hunting and shooting over 500 yards they really shouldn’t be using either 308 or 6.5C anyways and should probably have a magnum cartridge. Out to 500, the ballistic and energy differences are negligible. As long as a you have your dope dialed in you’re good to go with either.

[@predatorhuntingobsession5104]

@ I hunt well over 500 with my 6mm creed. It all depends on the game being pursued. Even at 1000 yards by 6creed has 500 ft/lbs of energy. Ya I’m not shooting elk with it but just because you may take a shot at something over 500 while hunting doesn’t mean you need a magnum round.

[@VeraBlankenship-zl9ll]

If you’re new to the game either hunting or target how with the 6.5 because it is the first new cartridge to become truly mainstream in shooting in more than 50 years. I have 308 and 3006 with tons of ammo so it doesn’t make sense for me to buy into the 6.5 when I’m 65 and know exactly how my 308 is going to hit out to 600 meters, which is now past my visual capability. If you’re not deeply invested in a cartridge already, go with 6.5

[@FullCircleReloading]

completely agree! The only argument that I would have is that no matter how well you know your 308, the 6.5 creed gives you much more error window and increases hit probability.

[@dakota.zimmerman]

This was great to see and had some great info, certainly plenty for those looking for information to choose loads and dial a hunting rifle. I would love to see similar tests done but with a gun that comes in both .308 and 6.5 so you can use the same gun, same barrel length, and no suppressors on a calm day to remove other variables and see the just how different these rounds perform to actually compare them. I see this video more of a lesson on how to properly dial a rifle for hunting rather than a true comparison of the two rounds. Good work either way guys, earned a sub!

[@FullCircleReloading]

the 6.5 would absolutely outperform the 308, so we wanted to show how much handier of a rifle you can have with the same performance! Appreciate you watching and subscribing!

[@dakota.zimmerman]

@@FullCircleReloading definitely agree with you there, the 6.5 is the better round for long distance. The question is at what range does the difference between them become apparent and how quickly do these rounds start to drop and lose penetration power? I've seen some rough guesses and charts on what this should look like but have never seen it actually tested. It seems everyone just kind of accepted 6.5 is better but really how much better? If anyone has seen this type of test done already please be sure to share!

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@dakota.zimmerman obviously bullet and barrel dependent, but in a "standard" comparison between the two with a heavy for class bullet, 400ish yards the 308 starts falling behind and the farther you get, the worse you get. Theres probably an argument for the 308 using some long ass barrel and 185s or 200gr pills, but you could do the same with 6.5 with 150-156s and beat it out. There's just no overcoming the sectional density and performance of the 6.5s with a 30cal.

[@jasonmaxwell7558]

Liked the video! However you guys for got one of the most important things! The cost of the ammunition!!! For some reason 6.5 creedmore ammo seems to still remain high compared to the average cost of 308!

[@mrs.vasquezz]

That's because there's shity military surplus 6.5, but if you compare the same rounds they're the same price

[@FullCircleReloading]

Like ammo to like ammo, they are identical. We sell this stuff for a living. 140gr Winchester power point V 150 Winchester power point, 140Eldm V 178 Eldm, ect. Exact same price on my shelf right nowl

[@maurice1876]

Everyone should have a 308 in their collection. And the 308 will never die you can hate all you want.

[@Craig-ory]

Everyone should have a spencer repeating rifle in their collection. Because I said so and you can hate all you want.

[@FullCircleReloading]

There's no hate. The 308 used in the video is my personal custom. It's an expensive rifle that I love. It's also not my first pick for a range day or hunt.

[@maurice1876]

@ you said the 308 is dead ☠️ and it will never be.

[@lurtiskoe]

@@maurice1876 got you to comment tho didnt it? engagement wins

[@christianlarson6708]

First time seeing a video of yours. So far I like it! Have you done 6.5 vs 7mm yet? I have a 6.5, and my buddy has a 7mm Remington.. would love to see real life data with those two! Thanks guys!

[@FullCircleReloading]

If we can get our hands on a 7remmag a test could be in order. But would likely be a better comparison to maybe a 6.5PRC since they're both a magnum? Apparently people want to see equal length barrels or equal bullet weights compared instead of trying to show cartridge capability at a disadvantage

[@christianlarson6708]

@@FullCircleReloading at first I wondered about the barrel length comparison, but I like you testing bullet capability vs barrel length. I have a 20” .308 SOLUS from Aero Precision, I absolutely Love it! But my buddy has a 22 or 24” 7mm rem. I understand the barrel length being the same.. but like what you guys are doing 👍

[@SAR0311]

There are a few dead cartridges in history. And there are a lot of cartridges that are not dead but were once extremely common and now are relegated to being hard to universally find, expensive and niche cartridges or mostly used by hand loaders because of the aforementioned reasons.

[@FullCircleReloading]

No shortage of dead cartridges out there. We specialize in reloading at the shop and deal with those on a more regular basis than I'd like.

[@jrago6228]

Great video!! Shows you guys have some fun together. Just got a new 308 reasoning was tried and true along with large selection of ammo and information . Beginner question, Just got a 24" Barrel 308 will sight in at 100 yards then zero it- as I move out to 150 to 300 yards etc. I hear you both talking MOA but the clicks seem to be very large measurements, every 100 yards on average is what inches?

[@FullCircleReloading]

We're both using milliradian (MRAD or MILS for more common terms) Same type of angular measurement as MOA, but in metric and much smaller easier to use numbers. We dont worry about "inches", just mils. One mil is 3.6in at 100y. .1 mil is .36in at 100y. You should zero your rifle at 100 and just adjust your scope accordingly as you shoot farther distances. We have the technology for free now, and its very good!

[@jrago6228]

Any recommendations for some type of app ? To use with scopes, I see so many, looking for something basic.

[@Impossibly-Possible]

Ill stick with my .308 for everything I have use for, POF revolution 18.5" DI .308, If i get a 6.5cm it will be 22-26" barrel bolt action LONG RANGE boy only because it is enough better at distance to warrant buying it and the ammo is abundant and not crazy priced, I would like a .300 ultra mag maybe a .338 lapua but the prices on ammo and availability are wack so Ill stick with something else, besides 308 I would get a 6.5 or something lightweight and fast maybe a .270 or something but I dont see anything else close to the 6.5 that has readily available cheap ammo.

[@skeeter33051]

Chuck Norris so deadly, his foot left a shadow on the cardboard after kicking someone 😂

[@FullCircleReloading]

Your comment wins... lol

[@randyweeks9316]

308 is still a great deer cartridge even though 6.5 has less recoil 😊

[@FullCircleReloading]

Deer have been getting harvested for a looonnnggg time with much less. Hell, the old 6mm remington has been getting it done since before either were a cartridge. Lol

[@huntsman3216]

Battle of common beast's lol great video guys. Between deer hunting and managing a gun shop i can tell you that where im at 308 is still really relevent. Theres alot more options on the shelf then 6.5cm ammo wise. Doesnt make it more ergenomic but just more available.

[@FullCircleReloading]

its absolutely still relevant. Its just not if your starting from scratch and have internet access.

[@averageusercommenter199]

I was inspired to do a KZbin deep dive afrer watching this video and found these videos with additional data points to consider. -Bergara "308 Winchester vs 6.5 Creedmoor - Why Can't we all Just Get Along" -Backfire ".308 Win vs 6.5 Creedmoor: Has the creddmoor Made the .308 Obsolete?" -Banana Ballistics "6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Barrier Test: No More Debating"

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thanks for the research! TONS AND TONS of videos out there showing all the differences

[@darprdun8968]

I’ve moved towards 308 as more of a battle rifle and 6.5 creed as my SR precision rifle

[@FullCircleReloading]

Nothing wrong with that. We own both as well

[@TheBenware81]

All the bantering back and forth with the 6.5cm and 308 is funny. Just buy 7mm08 and forget the other 2.

[@FullCircleReloading]

I agree 100% It absolutely baffles me that the 7-08 never took off and the 308 did even though it outperforms the 308 in every way. Only downside is the lack of factory support.

[@64samsky]

​@@FullCircleReloadingThat's why I handload.

[@tul9033]

Taking it one step further to compare deer bullets of the same manufacturer would of been awesome. For example, Norma .308 150gr Whitetail vs Norma 6.5 140gr Whitetail.

[@gconnoyer]

@@tul9033 what sort of “deer” medium should we use? Apparently a full ham was unacceptable

[@FullCircleReloading]

@@gconnoyer Maybe get a CWD deer donated and use it?

[@tul9033]

@@gconnoyer Pork butts and briskets are cheapish.

[@zacyoung4446]

Drop the velocity on the .308, if you drop the velocity, you have less penetration, but because it penetrates less, you more energy dumping into the target. Its why a tank round that can penetrate can still be deadly because of spalling from the metal inside. Now do the vice versa and ramp up the velocity of the 6.5 creedmor. See the difference, try to get it up to 2700 versus the 2600 you got here. Try to bring the .308 down to 2550 or 2600.

[@geraldgonzalez5360]

I have both but prefer my 308 only because Im old school. My 6.5 Creed is in a AR10 semi auto platform. Might build one in a competition bolt gun then maybe I'll change my mind. I enjoy reloading both for sure. Great video.

[@FullCircleReloading]

Thank you! Definitely dont build a competition bolt gun in 308.

[@johndees967]

Outstanding Content.. great presentation.. easy to listen to. Immediate Sub!!! You guys rock. What to buy?? Get them both... life is too short to just own 1 firearm. 62 years old.. been shooting since a snot nosed kid... dont plan on stopping anytime soon...lol

[@FullCircleReloading]

Your comment wins the thread. Thank you for watching and we appreciate your views!

[@connorbeck6191]

Most American thing I’ve seen spray painting guns barefoot 😂

[@FullCircleReloading]

inside the house... what better spot than a perfectly climate controlled place!

[@scotterdog1036]

Lol. I noticed that too. Why is there so much gun porn with bare feet in the pic?

[@mostdavestdave69]

15:18 I can see someone was painting their rifle while barefoot. Nice!

[@gconnoyer]

Hahah basement paintbooth cardboard!