607 BCE and 1914: Why these dates matter to Jehovah's Witnesses (2015 original)

[@LloydEvans]

A few of you dear folks are saying you don't like the music. Though I do value the feedback, I think it's worth knowing that I made this video specifically with a younger audience in mind. Older ex-JWs might be fascinated with this subject, and will happily sit through hours of discussion on cuneiform tablets and end-time prophecy, but a younger KZbin audience is more easily distracted. If you find yourself annoyed by the music, at least draw some solace from the notion that younger viewers, who stand to win the most by being saved from indoctrination, are being eased through an otherwise boring subject by it.

[@jdougdog5561]

+John Cedars Well I liked the music! Then again, I'm part of a younger KZbin audience who is more easily distracted. :-P Great video. I realize a person could go on for hours and hours on the various lines of evidence on this subject, but another favorite of mine is that Watchtower's own book, Insight on the Scriptures, will lead you to the 587/586 BCE date if you just do the math and count the lengths of kings' reigns from 539 BCE back.

[@LloydEvans]

+jdougdog You're very kind! The Insight technique is another great way of demonstrating the madness of 607. Thanks for mentioning it! :)

[@stephanelaliberte1538]

+John Cedars I'm 36 and usually do programming work for hours with techno blasting in my ears. - I consider myself young (ish) with an attention deficit disorder. Your target audience. The issue here is not that there is music, but that it is loud enough that I cannot always understand what you are saying. In addition, you may consider the language barrier. The first language of many MANY people is not English and thus, need to pay extra attention when they listen to your videos. Music simply makes it MORE difficult. I am not telling you to take all the music away... but lower it just enough to know that its there.

[@LloydEvans]

+stephane laliberte I did use Dijana as a test audience with this music, because obviously English is not her first language, but she said she could follow my reasoning and found the music complimentary rather than distracting - so this hasn't been an entirely arbitrary process. If the levels aren't to your satisfaction that will be more down to my lack of expertise and limited technical prowess than anything. But if it reassures you at all, I set the music to the lowest possible volume setting, and the dialogue to the maximum. They are not at the same levels - I at least made sure of that.

[@stephanelaliberte1538]

+John Cedars, You know, maybe one of the reasons it was more difficult for me this time around is that usually, I just play your videos in the background while I work. So, I do other things and still understand what you are saying. However, I find that with the music, I just can't.... Anyways... the content of what you just did there is still awesome. Keep up all the efforts you're putting in this.

[@OwenMorganTelltale]

you did an absolutely phenomenal job with this. i can't imagine how much time you spend researching this stuff

[@gailcullinan349]

So JWs implode their followers with forced study and forced daily reading of their printed literature. They have to read certain Watchtower and other rules forced literature for their Thursday night weekly meetings. God forbid they dont raise their hands to answer questions posed by the elders albeit perpetrators are called into the "little room" where they are humiliated and reprimanded by several elders. What I loathe and a massive confrontation I had was when this happened to my 86 year old Mother. These elders disregard all respect. They have no respect for others. I treat them with similar disrespect. Respect begets respect. I love laying into them. They usually have an answer for everything but when I confront them they look mortified and in a state of shock. My loathing of their destruction of my family continues.

[@lisahuntley9260]

Thank you ! Well documented and researched by you Lloyd

[@mjp4111]

I never understood the dates or calculations. Math is not my forte. However in my older years I now find history fascinating. That is what I hate the most. My lack of taking my education seriously. After all I didn’t need to pay attention. I just had to go in service and spew my memorized scriptures. Thank you for the work you put into this.

[@OwenMorganTelltale]

fantastic video. thank you for this. i was jehovahs witness for 18 years and this was explained to me at one point. i could even explain it myself, it's just been so long i didnt remember the entire "explanation"

[@glowplug007]

Hands-down unequivocally the absolute best video on the subject on KZbin

[@JaneMoreland]

Saw this on your FB page and was looking forward to watching it. Thank you very much, I thoroughly enjoyed it, was easy to follow and debunked many of my previous thoughts on the matter. I never knew about the astronomy records which are watertight. I spent the last 21years a jw, believing the 607bc date. 5yrs ago I randomly looked up my children's encyclopedia and first come across the 586/7 date. I remember feeling sick to my stomach, did a little research, then asking my PO Elder some questions before a meeting. He told me to get the material out of the KH. It took another 5yrs, for me to get DF and endure 8months of shunning to finally wake up, do further research (many from your sites). I walked away April this year, never to return. Thank you for your tireless work, you are awakening people, one by one.

[@mconnie111]

loved your excellent description of the truth. I was raised believing these dates and was blown away when I found your channel. thank you for bringing us into the light !!!

[@bryanmcalister9780]

You are my first subscription to truth and critical thinking I've cancelled my WT & A subscription...free at last!! Thanks John

[@liv328]

I was a JW for nearly 20 years and I never could understand how all the dates were supposed to make sense. Thank you for clearing it all up!

[@lauraadam3230]

Llyod,you are such a gift to me and my family.you and many other’s have helped me to break free from the jw cult.cant thank you enough. I am sending this to everyone I know.

[@patricklarkin255]

This video is awesome! The new music, the perfectly edited cut scenes, the audio seems better and it flowed really well. Obviously the work is speeding up in this time of the end!

[@trashpandia]

I know this is an older topic, but I appreciate your coverage of it. Very clear and understandable delivery. TMS did you well, my brother. As you have time, mixing in older controversies with your latest updates would be welcome.

[@emblems4life726]

This is one of your best videos ever in both style and content. Well done!

[@nicarawata]

Emblems4Life does your religion join the military and vote in human politics?

[@rachelmeredith1289]

This is the masterpiece that woke me up 5 years ago. Thanks for the great work Lloyd.

[@catht9653]

I am soooo impressed by your research. Having a Masters degree in divinity, I know the Biblical history. However, I didn't know about the record-keeping of the Babylonians, and I especially found the astronomical evidence fascinating. Great job, thank you! I knew very little about JW's before I found you through Chris Shelton. I'm glad to know more about this group and its beliefs and practices.

[@zeigfeild]

No one asked.

[@jacksoncountyiowatourism]

Taking a few hours to research 1914/607 seems like a valuable balance to the hours and hours and hours of book study time I spent as a kid learning this mashup of time in the first place.

[@tekknokat]

During COVID-19 I have found great purpose for my JW Bible. All my local markets are out of toilet paper, and now I have enough to last me until May, or June at least.

[@carnystrickland4888]

Lmao. We’re you joking about this

[@amandarobertson3772]

Had me in the first half; not gonna lie. 😆

[@mikemejias6885]

Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"

[@thetruthrover]

Ironic is the fact that Russell himself pointed out that false dates and predictions brought reproach on God, and then proceeded to reproach God with false dates and predictions.

[@nsr5961]

Read this article

[@boyamIhappy]

Well done sir! This is an excellent video. It's evident that you had to put in a lot of time and effort to make it. Thank you so much for all your hard work on our behalf.

[@Baboon4215]

Shalom sir, the title of your video got my attention; great video--thanks for posting. Those are very strange teachings the Jehovahs have. I have a friend who attended/graduated from the Israel Institute of Biblical Studies and I have never heard any of them speak on a 607 BCE. Archaeologists are unanimous for the date of 587/586 BCE and your explanation to support this date is very accurate. On a kind note: The scripture you quoted at timer 16:52 is not Jeremiah 29:11-12, it's found in Jeremiah 25:11-12. Shalom!

[@Glasstable2011]

Great video! I can see why it took you a while 😊 Well produced, thoroughly researched and brilliantly argued

[@ricardopinheiro3293]

Hello, I just wanna say thank you so much for all these videos. I am 23 and abandoned my aspirations well learning the apparent "truth" . Now I wanna catch all these missed years of my life. Thank you

[@moodydrifter6263]

Bravo! I wish KZbin had been around in the early 70s, so much of my life would not have been so ridiculously squandered.

[@stephcarlofc]

The JW's would have went belly up in the 80's of YT was around then!!

[@guillermovilla9517]

+john cedars WOW!!! This was amazing. It's true what you said early on-- this video debunked WT chronology early on, but completely destroyed it as the video went on. The video was very well made and thoughtful. The music threw me off at first, but it didn't distract me at all. Keep up the great work. I faded about a year and half ago and I started doing research on various aspects of witness teachings. I already was skeptical and videos like this and research just confirmed what I felt. I also appreciate your non-religious tone. I stay clear from religious "apostates". I'm done with religion and god, so your videos and JW Survey website are great for me. Thanks!!!

[@thebirdwhoflew312]

All I can say after each video of yours I watch is a sincere and very heartfelt thank you.

[@zeeborutherford147]

Excellent! Great to see you getting on with real activism. Much appreciated.

[@OwenMorganTelltale]

i just dont believe we should be interpreting dreams. thats why i dont believe jehovahs witnesses can interpret nebuchadnezzar's dream about the tree, and why i dont accept the 1914 teaching

[@thedepresseddonkey9675]

Telltale do you think Nebuchadnezzar had a bit too much to drink or something the night that he had that dream?

[@snomanchan]

So what should we do with the dream? Nothing ? Ya great idea ! 👍

[@PeterGregoryKelly]

Sounds like an archetypal dream on the theme of "Jack and the Beanstalk". You could do some great Jungian analysis on the Nebuchadnezzar story, going wild is his shadow aspect breaking out of a poor integrated personality. And who was the "giant" of Nebuchadnezzar's "beanstalk" who fell? That was Nebuchadnezzar himself, his influence visible across the known world.

[@nsr5961]

Telltale it makes sense however, that 1914 is the year as JW say the year Jesus was crowned king. Satan Cast from heaving and causing great havoc on earth.

[@carolhartwell9245]

The Bible says that God revealed to Daniel the dreams and the interpretation of them (2). Read Daniel and you will see. You may as read the whole took and learn.

[@peterspencer]

Hi. I've just recently found your site and I'm enjoying your work. Quick question, how do the jw's reconcile 1914 with bible passages like 1 Peter 3:22 and Hebrews 10:12 which state clearly that Jesus was already reigning in heaven in the first century? I've not had the chance to ask them yet. Thanks.

[@selinalehnsherr1043]

I completely understand why this would be very important to wake some up. But honestly...This kind of doctrine was always lost on me. I woke up by paying attention to their basic nonsense beliefs and eventually stopped justifying god and his psychotic actions. Pioneering and pioneer school helped a lot too. The overwhelming ridiculousness of it all was just undeniable at that point.

[@dantoinettetaylor1663]

Selina Lehnsherr Tell us more!

[@auntfancy6915]

Lloyd, excellent video! I wanted to add my two cents about the music. I am 60 and I did not find the music distracting but rather liked it. I thought the whole video was well put together and enjoyed John Redwood reading the scriptures. Very well done. Valerie O'Connor

[@orchidjewels48]

This is a very good explanation of known dates. As someone with an interest in astronomy, I agree with this and enjoyed your discussion..I've never been a JW, but they come round on occasion and I like to talk with them asking "innocent" questions designed to help wake up a JW. I know I"ve had an effect on a young man in tow of a woman JW. She left as fast as she could pry him away from my "question." I can only hope that it helped him to see the problems with the teachings of the wittnesses. I tried not to reattle her, but just ask investigative questions that anyone could be asking.

[@stephenwyatt6690]

good stuff. im dyslexic with numbers,but have gone outa my way b4 working out & researching these dates. I congratulate you on explaining the chronological dates in an easy & manageable way for someone like myself.thanx & gd work!

[@vonhimblefritz3249]

Another great one, Lloyd. Thanks for the links as well. I'm using this information on a JW as we speak. Great timing.

[@MelissaBrownapt215]

This video is tops. Everything about it. I didn't want it to end. If JW goes down, you can make history documentary videos. Even the music is spot on, energy and volume just right.

[@SusanGaskin]

Great video and summary. At the end of the day, who really has reason to lie about when Jerusalem was destroyed? To the historians it's just a date of an occurrence that happened thousands of years ago in the past. To the Jehovah's Witnesses religion, their entire religion, teachings on the last days, and when the "faithful slave" was selected all hinge on 607 being right - and clearly it is not. The JW organization will never apologize for insisting on this date and their false prophecies regarding the last days and 1914, and they couldn't care a less how many people they have mislead and disfellowshipped for disagreeing with them, nor how many lives they have ruined. New evidence is all that historians would need to change their minds on when Jerusalem was destroyed. Religions like the Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand will never change their minds on when they believe it was destroyed no matter how much evidence proves them to be false. To the contrary, they would do their best to suppress it.

[@johnfreeman8445]

they are finished without 1914. i cant imagine how they could wriggle out of it now. ive been in jws since 60s now trying to escape by fading out

[@loucee222]

When I did my research about 607, and realized it was false, I wondered, "what else are they lying about?"

[@CappytanMusic]

+Susan Gaskin Witnesses would say that the historians are part of Satan's world, hence Satan has a reason to lie about it, so by extension, the historians have a reason to lie as well. When you believe that there's this supernatural struggle between good and evil, any evidence that challenges your beliefs can be easily dismissed as Satanic Propaganda.

[@johnfreeman8445]

ogama843 yes many will leave because of the going digital.however i do think they gota pull a big rabbitt out of the hat soon because of the bad press and the Royal commision starting in the uk . They need a diversion urgently . Perhaps they will change the JW into jesus witneses. That would creat a new begining for them.

[@johnfreeman8445]

Yes you right .they have blocked jesus for so many years he will bring them down .the gb is so stuborn they will continue their hard line until they die then creat new clones of themselvs to carry on the lies. They dont care about the sheep .

[@Tonib1978111]

I love the music! And thank you so much for spending the time on this. You know who I am going to be showing this to 😉

[@LB-os3lb]

Thank you for that information. So important to know . Wish I had known 50 years ago when I was baptized. Better late, though, than never knowing . Yours videos are so very helpful.

[@orionpryme]

Well said. Did you rip the music towards the end from a 90's health & safety video?

[@greg27zz]

Great job Lloyd. Watchtower says Jesus was enthroned as King in October 1914, then war broke out in heaven and Satan was hurled down to earth bringing woe to the earth. I don't know how long it takes to war in heaven but even if Satan was hurled down to earth on October 2nd, World War 1 was already raging by then and wasn't caused by Satan being thrown down to earth. As a JW I always found this a bit odd.

[@BENBOBBY]

+Greg Evans Hmm good point!

[@OLOLAK_7777]

In all Honestly try believe what other religions believe in ummm like Muslim for an example.

[@alisonvuli5992]

I’d find it hard to believe wars take place in heaven.

[@Cjnw]

…also, the then recent First and Second Balkan Wars!

[@bopzippity830]

Thank you for this video. It was very easily understood and I'm sure it will reach a lot of people if they are brave enough to watch it. I also enjoyed the music. It made a dull subject seem upbeat somehow. Thanks again! I'm grateful for all your hard work! Much love to you, your wife and your little baby daughter from Kentucky, USA. You should give us an update on your daughter! I'm sure she's such a happy little thing!

[@chantaleneault5841]

Great job Lloyd. Loved the quick moving presentation.

[@oscarc5391]

another well presented video on a important subject in the Jehovah's Witness world making the subject matter much clearer for many

[@jacko293]

Thanks for the hard work in producing this video. I needed something short and to the point on the subject 607 that I can use for JW relatives. This will really help. BTW the music was good, all the other dudes watching it with me liked it, but they are all in their 20s and 30s and all going to college. I'm the oldest one. There's 12 of us total watching it today. It's Christmas vacation, what can I say.

[@LloydEvans]

+bear yogi Thanks Yogi! ;)

[@samtheman9307]

Thanks Loyd I like how you condensed something so complicated and made it easy to understand.

[@sheenavallett5428]

Thankyou for this information, i had no idea about this date, ive shared this with my sister who had been disfellowshiped many years ago, for living with the person she loves, and is still with, she will be taken back by this information Thankyou John

[@jessicathurman5480]

- John Cedars the way you respond back, is so pleasant. You respond with such understanding and patience. Very beautiful to see.

[@essy111]

Ive always been very confused about the 607 and 1914 issue regarding the Watchtower teachings well done for putting this video togehter hopefully it will knock some sense into exisiting witnesses heads.

[@SpartanDextrox117]

I would love to have this kind of high quality content in my native language. It could be possible to translate some of the main topics about Jehovah's Witnesses in other languages?

[@hotkiki13]

I was thinking the same thing

[@jon1drew]

Amazing job on this video! Thank you for your research and logical presentation.

[@motorway2roswell]

this is the first John Cedars aka Lloyd Evans video I ever saw, circa near the beginning of 2020. Knowing that 607 bce was a made-up time for the destruction of Jerusalem was a huge step in my recovery from this org. Before I started watching these videos, I was PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out) and I had already sensed some problems with many JW teachings, but merely considered them harmless practises and stored my doubts "on the shelf." This video started a chain reaction that led to (and is still leading to) my mental freedom. Thank you so much for all you do Lloyd Evans. Please keep it up for a long, long time!

[@kokeshiza]

Great video and explanation, thanks JC for ur time and effort. Cheers from JJJ-Australia

[@dawnsrayz]

Just a side note: the battle of Carchemish, where Nebuchadnezzar II defeated Egyptian Pharoah Necho II, happened in 605. That battle made Babylon the new, dominant world power. This was a major battle and it's being a matter of record is set. But Nebuchadnezzar fought this battle as a son of the King, Nabopolassar. Shortly after this victory, in the same year, King Nabopolassar died and Nebuchadnezzar became King of Babylon. If you believe Jeremiah was accurate, and you count 19 years from that year (605) you get to 586, which happens to be the same year historians say Jerusalem was besieged and then destroyed. Coincidentally, Babylonian chronicles also say that In the 11th year of Zedekiah, King of Judea, Nebuchadnezzar conquered the city and took Zedekiah captive. So, 11 years from 597 when he defeated Jehoiachin and installed Zedekiah, and that would be, tada, 586/587. If you believe in the bible, and you trust that the prophets of it tried their best to be accurate, you would find greater faith in accepting 586 as the date of destruction because it proves Jeremiah was accurate. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

[@katb945]

So well researched Lloyd excellent video blew my mind learnt so much thanks will be sharing this!!

[@mikemejias6885]

Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"

[@apostateawake3417]

Lloyd, This was glorious. Well played! I've always wanted something along these lines to refer to as the subject is kind of boring if not put together so brilliantly like ou have done. This is so necessary for blowing a cult out of the water. Bravo.

[@LloydEvans]

+Watchtower&Awakening Thanks my friend! :)

[@mikemejias6885]

Isaiah Chap 2 verse 22 : "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"

[@excelsiorexcelsior1591]

Hello Lloyd, thank you for a very interesting and well produced video. One of the challenges I give to my students is to investigate the number 2520. It is a very interesting number indeed! It is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 with no remainders. I should imagine that this facility of division is food and drink to the Numerologists who search for numbers in the bible. I forget, but wasn't there "time and times and half a time" as well? What was that all about? I honestly can't remember all the nonsense dogma anymore, especially as it is rarely referred to anymore in current WTBTS literature. Merry Christmas! Peace be with you, Excelsior!

[@myfrankensteinlife4489]

Wow what a great video, thank you Lloyd for all your hard work

[@davidjrtodd]

What a great and easy to understand video about an esoteric doctrine of this cult. You are right. The whole box and dice lives or dies on this crazy doctrine. As you have stated, there is no new information here. The thing is, your brief explanation is perfect for anybody who wants to get straight to the point. Who are the people pressing the "thumbs down" I can only imagine they spent their time watching your video with their fingers in their ears saying "lalalalala" This is one of your best Lloyd. Really enjoyed it!

[@annetteblack6882]

Excellent😉 Loved your presentation on the subject matter AND the music...Stay Strong Lloyd🎯😎

[@mymangobango65]

10,945th subscriber!! Finally got the guts to do it! Thanks John, I admire kind, common sensical style. And u were such a cute kid! We're the same age so we were probably twiddling our thumbs at the KH wondering if we could get away with another trip to the bathroom/water fountain just to break up the monotony around the same time. Ur so pleasant to watch, never let ppl stop u from being "juvenile", ur hilarious & it only points more clearly to the absurdity of jws teachings.

[@erikallder8199]

Great video Lloyd! I'm having trouble downloading it though. It says the file is incomplete?

[@paulcantrell7900]

amazing, thanks for your fine effort, it is much appreciated and very much needed.

[@johndownes7580]

Excellent presentation , hardly any ridicule, straight facts given, will be effective for any sincere true God seeking person.

[@cushcush9793]

It is a very good presentation. However, I have one question- what do you think about Daniel 9:2 where it says that Jerusalem will be desolate for 70 years. What if the JW counted on the basis of this verse.

[@woketointelofjws6670]

I so appreciate your making this movie.

[@Tali.P85]

Thank you for explaining this so well. It was easy to follow.

[@jamespilcher5287]

That's a pretty impressive collection of old publications you have there.

[@MattChase10-4]

Very informative.... very well produced! Thank you!

[@loram3447]

Videos like this make me proud to sponsor you through Patreon. Keep up the good work.

[@rafaelsaint-clairbraga8731]

Clear, well-edited, informative and concise! Great Job! ;)

[@johnfreeman8445]

thanks for this explanation. so well done .its another milestone in my exit from the borg.ironicaly ive a 1888 bible dictionary ive had since before i became a jw in 60s whichv contains all this infomation and gives the correct 586 date .the watchtower has been smoke and mirrors . about blind trust .thank you.

[@johnfreeman8445]

to add to my last .interestingly the new book released at the conventions last year to replace the greatest man book from 1984 makes no mention of 1914 in the same sections that in the old book does i didnt notice it before .so this indicates a subtle downgrading of 1914 also .the new book does not refer to the un as the disgusting thing as does the 1984 book . perhaps "new light" will be released at next years conventions and 1914 will be moved up to 1934 and a whole raft of new truths will be revealed ???

[@johnfreeman8445]

+John freeman to add 1914 mentioned once on page 313 as the begining of the lords day. just once in the book. as far as i can see .

[@Karnau90]

i think you did an amazing job at this video. even cleared up a few more things for me. Thank you

[@WargamingForFun]

Well done on this, particularly informing was the quotes from the 19th century, thanks.

[@johnbleeker6258]

dude! are those the original works of "our dear brother" C.T. Russell , on the top shelve behind you? Where did you get it? got an extra set perhaps? :) Oh, right, great videos and stuff, but ... those books ... ? :)

[@pjewellful]

Great video:) this will help me a great deal when I'm talking to my JW family and friends.

[@chronosxun]

Hey Cedars, i like your content a lot. I think that your videos help a lot of people everywhere. I'm just leaving my my opinion as a fan of your content. I might be the only one, but i find that music in the background is very distracting. I don't think you need it. It does not make your videos better. Just my opinion.

[@LloydEvans]

+Na Quero Thanks for the feedback. I won't be using music for all my videos, but I think in such a fact-heavy video the music helps smooth things along.

[@kazimierzwaach7843]

+John Cedars Keep music.... :), it is great.

[@chronosxun]

It certainly smooth things up in educational videos but it depends on the music. Like i said, maybe its just me. Its just a minor thing. The message is what is important after all, right? Stay strong dude.

[@cyclonic7134]

+John Cedars I think Na is probably distracted y the tempo, not the music itself. I was a bit as well. Wonderful video though! So spot on!

[@chronosxun]

+John Cedars Maybe I'm being distracted by petty things, because in the comments people seem to like it. But i really don't like the music, in my opinion it doesn't "connect" when he is on camera. I noticed this is the first time Cedars made a strictly educational video, and i have seen plenty or them to notice some patterns used that always seem to work. Anyway just trying to help.

[@bishop7609]

Great video. Thank you. Just adding some clear questions: What about the inconsistency of using years of 360 days and counting on a scale with years of 365 days? The Gregorian calendar only been introduced in the middle age. And what about the change from 606 BC to 607 BC in 1942 after realizing that there was no year 0, so instead of changing the "prediction" they changed the date of Jerusalem's destruction. It shows how the organization doesn't care when it happened as long as any calculation matches 1914.

[@julins1702]

So great to see this. Thank you so much.

[@lydiatownsend7789]

I never truly understood this as a JW, and always found it confusing, and very vaguely plucked out. But the logic presented to me seemed sound.. Now I can see I was right all along, it really is just wishful thinking.

[@darlenerothenay6251]

Lloyd, why is there more mention of the the Jehovah Witnesses using Daniel’s prophesy to arrive at the 1914 date and so little said about how Russel used the measurements inside the great pyramid to arrive at the 1914? It was discussed extensively in the book, “The Divine Plan of the Ages”. This seems to be a really important point yet so few people know about it. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I think this is a huge point proving how crazy Jehovah’s Witnesses have been throughout the years. Is there something that I am not understanding correctly in all of this? TIA

[@lindahernandez1781]

Fantastic. I’m sharing it everywhere.

[@lara398487]

Brilliant and informative video. I like the music and the style or the video, it is modern and easy to follow. I think this video will be so helpful for people! Love the bit at the end too... My thoughts exactly!!

[@runfromthetower3547]

Hi Lloyd, avid subscriber, promoter of your channel, and of JW Survey. You have some of the best material out on the web. I have to agree with several of the comments regarding the background music; was very distracting. It took away the seriousness of your great educational material. Out of all the videos you have made this one as hard to take serious. Can you post a version without the music? I refer to your channel in assisting ones to waking up to TTAT. Keep up the great work you and the others at JWSurvey do in exposing the WT cult. Much love from Southern California.

[@LloydEvans]

+RunFromTheTower Thanks for the kind words. The music, like the video, is intended to take an old, boring, subject and make it relevant for the younger generation who I am most anxious to reach out to. I have no plans to release an alternative version of this video without music. And I assure you if I did, it would be far less effective at holding the attention of viewers.

[@runfromthetower3547]

+John Cedars Understanding your intended audience now explains the production of the video with music. I'm all for reaching the younger generation with TTAT. Have a Happy Holiday with family and friends Lloyd. May you and the family have peace. Here's to looking forward to 2016. Life is to be enjoyed, not endured. Everything to live for, nothing to die for.

[@lloydmeadors]

Thanks for the info Lloyd, as a former JW myself, this is interesting

[@tonyvr30]

Put that in your kingdom hall and smoke it watchtower BOOM!!!!

[@jbeckmann6145]

Antonio Vázquez kingdom bong!

[@RedSpiralHandTV]

Did you know that you can use pages from the JW bible to roll doobies with? Yep. Did that when I was 15......shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[@captainthunderjrjdharra4364]

Antonio Vázquez did you say Sha-Boom senior?

[@cyclonic7134]

Well done cedars, well done!

[@MismeretMonk]

When I struggled with this, more knowledgeble JWs said that historian Rolf Furuli wrote a full rebuttal of Jonsson's book. I saw it quoted at wikipedia. I tried to buy that book. However, I couldn't find it anywhere. Also emailed Furuli, no response. I never understood why Watchtower never quotes Furuli or publishes his book. I guess they just do not care if there is no substance to their claims.

[@jacko293]

+Bastion Monk Hey that's interesting, I always wondered why the WT never quotes Furuli. But what you said make sense now, the WT just don't care if there is no substance to their claims. Holy shit!

[@RiskeFactor]

This was well done. Very simple presentation of a complicated topic.

[@blackbuddha8167]

You have answered a question that I didn't know. Thanks

[@LINEOFTRUTHMINISTRIES]

Very interesting video. While I am not a JW nor have I ever considered joining, this is very informative and gives an interesting perspective of the organization. I am amazed that people don't see the clear interpretation provided in Daniel 4 itself. One question: I am familiar with the Millerite chart and the end of the 2520 in 1843. Miller got the 2520 from Leviticus 26:18 and the 7 times mentioned there. Do the JWs connect Daniel 4 to Leviticus 26? Just curious. Another question: Do ex JWs typically join other churches or do they leave a belief in God altogether? Again just curious. I know not every situation is going to be the same. I can understand a distaste for any organization after being under the oppression of the JW org. Personally, I believe very similar to SDA except the trinity but all earthly organizations are corrupted by power and money. Once again thanks for the video, very interesting. I'll check out more of your them.

[@LINEOFTRUTHMINISTRIES]

Just a follow up, I came across your videos by watching testimonies of people leaving the JW org. I feel like I can identify to an extant because I have many friends that have been disfellowshipped from the SDA church for rejecting the trinity doctrine.

[@jameselpis3384]

I can't answer the first question totally, but when I was a JW I had never heard of connecting this to Leviticus, but it might be somewhere in their volumes of writings. The second question interested me. When I left the Org in 2004 the majority of ExJW KZbinrs where turning to atheism and I was hard pressed finding exJW content from people who are still pursuing Christianity. But as of lately that's changing and I am finding lots who are speaking up and professing Jesus as their Lord more strongly than they did as JWs, myself included. So KZbin is revealing there are exJWs like me who still believe in God and continue to pursue Him and study the bible. Personally I do not attend any church, but I respect churchgoers more than I did. My personal experience is most of my friends that are now getting out of the WT are indeed turning atheist. I try to talk to them about alternative bible interpretations and ideas but they seem burnt out and they don't want to bother. My take: exJWs have had the life sucked out of them for years and they just want to enjoy their new found freedom. As do I. A collective sigh of relief from one exDubster to the next.... wherever you are at this point.

[@mackiepimo-jwjones3019]

Just finished watching your new video on why watchtower no longer needs 1914. This video is a great in depth summary

[@Joshuanjtg2]

647 - first year of Kandalanu (BM76738: the planet Saturn: June 24, -647 and July 18, -647) 646 - second year of Kandalanu (BM76813: the planet Saturn: June 28, -646 and July 31, -646) 625 - first year of Nabopolassar 609 - fall of Assyrian (70 years start). | first year of Jehoiakim by Necho II (Battle of Megiddo: BM21901) 605 - BM22047 + BM21946: first year of Nebuchadnezzar II (Battle of Carchemish) | Four year of Jehoiakim by Nebuchadnezzar II (Daniel 1:1) 598 - first year of Jehoiachin (first exile of Jeremiah 52:28) | seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II 597 - first year of Zedekiah 588 - BM38462 (July 15, -588 = lunar eclipse) seventeen year of Nebuchadnezzar II 587 - BM38462 (January 8, -587 = lunar eclipse) | fall of Jerusalem (second exile of Jeremiah 52:29: July 27, -587) 582 - third exile of Jeremiah 52:30 568 - VAT4956 (Nissanu 1 = April 22, -568 = new moon) thirty-seven year of Nebuchadnezzar II 562 - first year of Amel-Marduk/Evil-Merodach (Jeremiah 52:31) (BM80920 + BM58872) 560 - first year of Neriglissar 556 - first year of Labashi-Marduk 555 - first year of Nabonidus 554 - second year of Nabonidus (Real Chronicles: September 26, -554 = lunar eclipse) 546 - nineth year of Nabonidus (Stele of Addagoppe of Harran, mother of Nabunidus) 539 - fall of Babylonia (70 years end) (BM35382 = seventeen year of Nabonidus) | first year of Cyrus the Great 523 - seventh year of Cambyses II (Strm Kambys 400: July 16, -523 = lunar eclipse) 521 - first year of Darius I 517 - fourth year of Darius I (Zechariah 7:1-5: 70 years = 517 + 70 = 587) 515 - reconstruction of the temple

[@johnfreeman8445]

brilliant chart. ive been ages trying to get to the 609 .you have mad that clear . goes well with video. thank you.

[@Joshuanjtg2]

+John freeman “_In 609 Assyria was mentioned for the last time as a still existing but marginal formation in northwestern Mesopotamia. After that year Assyria ceased to exist._” - The Fall of Assyria, (Poznan: Adam Mickiewicz University Press, 1988), page 16.

[@BENBOBBY]

+Joshuanjtg2 Damn!

[@christellchesney6107]

Thanks for this... really informative

[@jwfreedom]

This is great. I wish I could do more analytical study of the Watchtower teachings, but to be factual and effective I know that it takes a lot of effort. How do you find the time with your new baby and job and life in general?

[@truthseekerscarey8844]

Thank you for all of your videos! 😀❤️

[@jamieterrell7001]

A Convention a couple years ago warned brothers and sisters about getting together to discuss 1914 and other specific things in small groups for themselves. Watchtower knows whats going on. They are trying to curve the questioning about 1914. Questioning the Governing Body on anything is disobedience and rebelliousness. They are the older men and we respect thier insight.

[@clarkcaustic6638]

Google "group polarization"....there is a reason why they don't want others studying the bible on their own. They prefer sheep, not critical thinkers...there is also a reason why they don't want you to seek higher education either.

[@shannonlucas7679]

I think the verse in Jeremiah that is quoted is supposed to be in chap. 25 not 29. If I'm wrong please let me know. :)

[@clementmabunda3131]

Damn +John Cedars you did it again! *ThumbsUp*

[@jaychhcyaj7201]

so half way through your video, perhaps I should wait until its done but...if Daniels times represent 360 years, but Daniel 12:7 says time, times and half a time is three and a half years, then how is it that in Rev.11:2-6 talks about the two witnesses for 42 months or 3.5 years which equals 1260 days which strangely enough is divided by 360 to become 3.5 times? Hope I am making sense

[@carloschamai5415]

J Hansler nope no sense whatsoever

[@millerlife5550]

Thank you so much for this video!!

[@kevaran1422]

This really never made full sense to me growing up as JW. It has always been odd. We always adjust our interpretations of bible messages but still claim we have the accurate knowledge of truth. That's even more odd.