7/8 Scale Arisaka Type 38 Trainer

In many countries prior to WWII, it was not uncommon to begin preparing children for military service at fairly young ages, and several countries produces small-scale rifles for training boys who could not yet handle full-size weapons. These include France and Italy (with miniaturized Lebel and Carcano rifles), and also the Empire of Japan. Today we're taking a look at a small-scale Type 38 Arisaka trainer, approximately 7/8 normal size. While most of these sorts of rifles were designed for small rimfire cartridges, this one was instead chambered for 6.5x50mm blank rounds.
www.forgottenwe...

[@TonboIV]

It's a bit late, but the kanji on the stock appear to read 和土校, though the first character is a little indistinct. They read 'harmony' 'soil' 'school'. Since the first two characters make no sense as a word, they must be a place name. There is a very brief Japanese Wikipedia entry for a village called 和土 (Wado) in the area around Tokyo which was merged into other municipalities in 1954, so I'd guess this marking means the rifle belonged to 'Wado School'.

[@trevorstewart3904]

TonboIV I'm a bit late as well, having just watch the video today. The town you found near Tokyo, was that Wado in Saitama? If I dig anything up I'll post it here.

[@TonboIV]

Trevor Stewart Indeed, it was in Saitama. Here's the Wikipedia entry: ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/和土村 The last character there, 村 (mura) means village, so the town is called "Wado Mura" or "Wado Village". Can you read Japanese at all? Mine is still pretty rough, but I can take a crack at translating the article if you like.

[@trevorstewart3904]

Yes, I can read a fair amount of Japanese (and read through the wikipedia article). I was just being nosy and trying to find some info on the school from the WW2 period (I'm sure it was just a village school, but thought I might find an old picture or something). But so far haven't turned anything up ... though admittedly I've not searched for long.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Actually, the stock marking is the name of the school where it was used (I had someone translate it after I made the video).

[@PAPAMACTV-veryunfunny-]

hi ian

[@Jesses001]

That looks like the name of the school on the stock. I used to know Japanese...used too, haha. I am surprized they did not scale it down even more. The Arisaka is a rather long rifle, especially considering Japanese are ussualy shorter than Americans. I always wondered why they made their standard rifle taller than most of their troops.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It's not trivial, because IIRC the Arisaka barrel threads are different than our standards today. You probably can't buy a barrel off the shelf to fit an Arisaka receiver, but if you have a lathe you could certainly cut the threads on a barrel blank easily enough.

[@diasirea]

A technique readily familiar with the Mossberg 500 series shotguns and many other less common firearms.This technique, strong and safe for its intended purposes, has some inherent limitations and thus not widely used. BTW:Try to find a 1959 Am Rifleman article where a 6.5 Arisaka was, idiotically by a bubba, rechambered-NOT REBORED-to .30-06, fired numerous times and survived with out failure. Truly a strong, over engineered rifle.(.30 cal bullet swaged to .264 think of the pressures!)

[@mjayvh]

So are these the rifles that our GI's Tried using and that's where the exploding Arisaka rumor came from?

[@user-kk1hg8sn7i]

No, those were different models of training rifles, made to fire wooden slugs. Here an effort was clearly made to prevent this from happening.

[@CPHannigan]

Numrich has Type 99 Arisaka barrels in at this time. I've ordered one from them in the past, and I was happy with what I got.

[@CPHannigan]

What you said about the trainers is absolutely correct, but the fact is some last ditch rifles had cast receivers. I mean the last of the last ditch.

[@asd36f]

The oldest Forgotten Weapons video I have watched - the production values have increased 1000% between 2013 and 2021!

[@arisukak]

I'm fairly sure what is stamped on the stock is to the effect of "blanks only" or "no live ammo." Unfortunately, most US GIs could not read Japanese and some did fire some trainers with live ammo with very bad results. That's probably why the "last ditch" rifles get such a bad rep. They just assumed that all the ones that aren't finished good are unsafe to shoot, when in fact the "last ditch" rifles still had forged receivers and bolts and are quite safe to shoot.

[@imbored742]

the stamping on the stock reads 和土校　read (I think) as kazuto-kou. It's the name of a school, which would make sense if this was a training rifle for schoolchildren.

[@arisukak]

That's common for school rifles. I know a lot of trainers, if not most, say not to fire live ammo on them though.

[@arisukak]

No, you're quite wrong. All Type 99s had forged receivers. There was a special version based on the type 99 that had a cast receiver, but the locking lugs lock into the forged barrel, not the receiver so the receiver could have been made of bamboo and it would work fine, but those are very rare. Ask yourself this: Would any military issue a gun that was unsafe for the user? What use would it be to issue a gun that exploded when first used? There is a lot of BS surrounding Arisakas.

[@williamrekow7513]

I have one of these, minus the bolt. Unfortunately the stock cartouche has been sanded away. A couple of my observations: apparently this particular model was made by Nambu, but there were other types available. It does not mirror the type 38 in two very obvious ways: the bayonet lug, and the magazine release. The receiver tang is also slightly different, but that is not as serious a change. Several articles suggest that this rifle fires a gallery round as well as a blank. I would be interested to learn more about this gallery round. There are supposed to be two types; a cylindrical projectile and a ball projectile. With more data on weight and powder, I could load a reasonable facsimile of that cartridge.

[@MadSpectro7]

Yes. I'd love to see FW do a review on the Type 5 if possible.

[@arisukak]

It would probably be a lot cheaper to just buy a newly made rifle. And the barrels were really hand fitted. If you change barrels from another arisaka it may not fit, or if it fit then the matching bolt wouldn't fit. Imho it's not worth it unless it's a super rare version like a concentric circle or "Love of Country" marked ones.

[@schizoidboy]

Thanks for posting this because I always wanted to hear something about how Japanese schoolkids trained because they had pre-military training in Japan before and during the war, just wasn't sure how they did it although this might give some clues as to how they trained.

[@diasirea]

Try on line gun brokers, you'll still need an FFL dealer, likely you'll pay way too much for way too little. Gun shows, especially with military themes probably best for selections and ultimately price. Gun shops, etc. occasionally turn up some, hit and miss. Auctions sites, especially of better houses, good reliable sources, but chances are you'll pay more. Also, research, Ariskas can go from a $50 chopped "sporter" to $3,000+ for rare variations.$150-400 range for an average usable common type

[@NormanMatchem]

Thanks for the heads up, nice. That's my preferred type of bolt action. I'll have to scoop up one of those Arisakas if I get the chance. From what I hear, the Type 38 was the strongest action of WWI (Which would be quite the feat if it's truly stronger than the P14/M1917), and the Type 99 was the strongest and most advanced bolt action of WWII (chrome bore, sights to shoot at air craft, rear aperture "ghost ring" sight, etc.). Not sure about the 38 though, 6.5 Arisaka is kind of weak.

[@300superMEXICANS]

that's what I was thinking. I was pondering if you held the bolt shut if it would fire with out blowing out the bolt.

[@dergrossedonjuan]

Could a live round still be inserted by hand into the chamber? For instance, if the bolt were removed? I imagine that would have been a safety issue considering the lack of locking lugs.

[@Lavrentizodiac]

Maybe it could use as granade luncher too.

[@arisukak]

This particular model of trainer. There are many others. And you can in fact still load a round in, just not by stripper clips. Just one at a time.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I guess the Japanese didn't feel the need to dumb-proof their trainers. lol

[@300superMEXICANS]

what would happen if you put live rounds in it?

[@martinthedrainedsedlak]

Tenno HEIKA

[@silverblotter]

Dude, when is the Ross Rifle video coming out ?

[@ClickerQuiz]

neat.

[@621champagneenema]

Where was this rifle from then? Were you able to track that down??

[@atarian345]

Live ammo can't be loaded into trainers. Didn't you watch the video?

[@kkawing]

The marking looks like the name of a school. Looks like this: "和土校"? Google Translate believes this to be pronounced as "Kazuto-kō".

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Maybe they could have saved on some valuable materials by just making them all that size. :P

[@greydonstautzenberger3901]

Keep it up

[@Warbirdguy1]

If anyone has a bolt for one of these please let me know!

[@feeldafood2953]

Last time I check they got some on eBay.

[@317riflepro1996]

He du school

[@DinnerForkTongue]

I know it's a rare period piece, but do you think this trainer can be converted to actually fire a smaller cartridge than the 6.5mm the original Arisaka rifle used? Maybe .223 Remington or shorter?

[@MrGermansheppard]

i wouldn't even try, its too valuable to do something like that, but you could do a clone if you have the time and money

[@DinnerForkTongue]

***** That's what I thought. Thanks.

[@bowmen08]

I'm relatively sure that the training rifle is not meant to sustain any pressure from firing and thus, if converted to a live gun, it would probably be unsafe and/or last for a very short time before something breaks. And the bolt kinda needs locking lugs, I'd think!

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Yea, I figured it'd take extensive modifications and parts replacements before you could fire it. Might as well order a functional clone already.

[@bowmen08]

Yup. Probably need a new bolt and a new barrel, and perhaps the magazine would need to be modified; which amounts to more or less the stock being left intact. So might as well get a newly built gun to begin with.

[@surplusdriller1]

liar