7 Bad Guys Who Had a Point, Now I Think About It

[@Nempo13]

One of the more amusing parts of that Deus Ex game is if you DON'T get the upgrade. She tries to hit the killswitch on you and Jensen just shrugs "I never had time to get it" it is a great moment.

[@sancer1781]

I ignored getting it like I ignore getting every update IRL since it didn't mess with my augs and was worried it would cost me money (I didnt hear that it was free) so when that happened I felt so validated in my cheap ways. But it is a cool Moment.

[@dantethewanderer4989]

@@sancer1781 I rate to that on all levels, including physical.

[@WdnUlik2no]

it was so satisfying.

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

Yes!!!! That was a fantastic moment!

[@Joyful_Traitor]

In my first playthrough I got the upgrade whoops but I always thought it was funny that his body would reject any and all augments

[@MasterHall117]

“Listen kiddos, every one thinks they are the hero of their own story.” -Handsome Jack

[@loremipsumdolorsitamet9542]

I had this when I was directing a tabletop roleplay. I wanted to create some reasonable villians with their own backstory and even gave the good guys some bad sides... In the end the heroes doesn't want to to anything, didn't know who to fight and even started to fight against themself because of slight differences in their morality. In the end we stopped the story right in the middle. Huuuge mess

[@parkour_tnt1331]

What If i wanted to be the villain of my story? Like, killing/stealing from other people for fun/greed.

[@andreaniccoli8669]

@@loremipsumdolorsitamet9542 so basicaly last seasons of RWBY?

[@hillkids02]

Hate to be that guy but... Thinks*

[@MasterHall117]

@@loremipsumdolorsitamet9542 it sounds good!

[@bidoof367]

the pacman ghosts had a point, you broke into their home and ate all their food, i mean cmon, who would like that?

[@doofbabe527]

Bidoof actually whatculture is a theory that those are ghost eggs

[@cattycatqueen7643]

And then he ate them

[@hypnoticgesture2408]

Not sure if pacman or jews...

[@banjo5224]

would you eat someone for eating your food

[@auroro3186]

spoops me goops goops yes

[@AdamBladeTaylor]

I love that the best ending for that Farcry was to literally do nothing. When you're brought in to see Pagan Min at the beginning, he has to leave and tells you to wait. If you leave, you start the whole game... if you just wait for him... he hands you the country and you can rule properly.

[@scotthollis4521]

"All villains are the heroes of their own story" Lets be honest, the vast majority of villains don't see themselves as the bad guy; theres always some justification for what they do, even if it only makes sense to them.

[@Intothevoid-NIB]

Magnus Chase- Actually called his gang of villains the "League of Evil Mutants" Victor Von Doom-Actually calls himself Doctor Doom, despite having the best motivation of any Marvel villain The Joker-Knows and relishes in the fact that he is basically chaos incarnate The entirety of Heaven's forces (Ghost Rider: Heaven's on Fire)-Don't care that killing the Antichrist would lead to chaos. These are only a few examples of villains that know and either don't care or enjoy being the villain

[@spikewall5762]

Scott Hollis id see myself kinda as the bad guy but also not . Like i would know id be doing bad shit but care ? Nah fam

[@willieoelkers5568]

Viewtiful Z Did you mean "Magneto" instead of "Magnus Chase"? If you did, then the thing to remember is that he was created during the Silver Age, when villains were all "evil" this and "evil" that. In most incarnations since then he drops the "evil", or is using it as a political statement about how humans view mutants. He, Doom, and Heaven's forces (I think because I don't know the story) all believe that the ends they seek to achieve justify their means. That's the epitome of "every villain is the hero of his own story". As for the Joker, yeah, he's a villain, knows it, and owns it, but he's also madder than a hatter in a sock factory. He's the exception, not the rule.

[@lordvenom4419]

Just like a soldier fighting for their own country

[@HO1ySh33t]

"All heroes are villains of someone's story"

[@MidoriOfTheShuinsen]

Funnily enough, you can actually beat Far Cry 4 without doing a damn thing. When Pagan Min leaves to 'take care of business', just sit tight and wait. After some time, he'll come back, and you get a quick helicopter ride up to the mountain peak, thus winning the game.

[@vladdracul5072]

No, you're not "winning" the game, like in Far Cry 5 at one point you're ending it without doing anything, that's a slight difference. Even at the end there's no real winner in both games.

[@tranquil5273]

@@vladdracul5072 You're winning in FC4 because you completed your one objective. FC5 is different

[@vladdracul5072]

@@tranquil5273 There's some truth in there, but did you stop playing after that ending? You've won after all, no reason to continue. ;-)

[@berkgulec5819]

Vlad Dracul thats why i still havent bought farcry 4 because to me waiting ending is cannon.

[@vladdracul5072]

@@berkgulec5819 Well, I waited, just to see what happens, but then I started playing for real and had to help those Golden Path buggers. Afterwards I wish I could have helped Pagan Min instead of those morons. Anyway, it's a good game and I don't regret buying it.

[@tkristians123]

Pagan Min was arguably the most likable guy in Far Cry 4. Sure, there was a secret ending with him where you could wait for 15 minutes, but I kinda wish that at some point during the middle of the game you could change sides or something like that.

[@clintonbeene504]

tkristians123 Literally all I wanted to do was fight the Golden path. For the next game it would be interesting if it was a civil war and you could pick sides between two armies.

[@harrisonjones7420]

Clinton Beene Skyrim flashbacks

[@CyrusLagom]

Honeybeard Jones Did you know you can make both sides have a truce? You just needed to do the main story before joining either side

[@azariahawthorne9760]

Tod Vulpes what is the main story.

[@CyrusLagom]

StruckerX The main quest.

[@coolwolf506]

My favorite kind of "villains" are the ones you can kind of understand their reasons for being "bad"

[@Allister_1]

@@bobono where is the body jestream. ANSWER ME!

[@jimmythe-gent]

I mean, I guess... but I still think 🖇dolf went too far.

[@untitledname4740]

I guess thats joker

[@derekrogers1668]

Yea but pagan min far cry annoyed me.

[@calmtea2819]

My favourite kind of villains are one of pure terror like Palpatine or Darth Vader.

[@TheFluffyDuck]

I think the other paddle in Pong had a good point come to think of it.

[@mastermicah6528]

Yeah he was so misunderstood.

[@ebbiii5790]

xD that was a good one

[@vicky248123]

we passed judgment on him too fast

[@MouseGoat]

yes, the real evil was the ball, making you fight a meaningless battle without end.

[@reviewtrumpusamaga2923]

lol

[@brightdarkness420]

batmans does not say lalalala when he plugs his ears he says nanananana....

[@carsonphillips154]

Yes that is the most true thing ever

[@carsonphillips154]

+kitten is a cat F to pay respects

[@justben1770]

So he's singing an MCR song? That would make sense seeing how emo Batman is

[@STRmw2]

or "nanananananaa batmaan" ...

[@ARX78]

Holy Hilarity Batman!

[@youtubehandle22]

My pencil had a point. It stabbed me with said point

[@poorgamer3408]

Ass

[@WouldYouKindlyWatch]

Wanna see a magic trick?

[@philippgrutzwurst2546]

TADA! it vanished.

[@pancakeperson8905]

@@WouldYouKindlyWatch nice reference

[@alexvielmann8826]

Shut up

[@silverblade357]

Far Cry 4: *exists* Everyone: "Why no Pro-Pagan DLC?!!"

[@darthcannabris5406]

So fucking true. I loved that they added the alternate ending but I hated that they didn’t ever expand on it.

[@TheCommando_218]

Darth Cannabris I know right if they made a working for pagan dlc I would have bought it

[@jackcall28]

Does it even need to be a dlc?In my opinion it should have been part of base game.

[@rotua98]

you guys make pagan min like a god or something dude is bad, i remember when noore killed herself after knowing that pagan kiled her family years ago but keep lying and using noore when Ajay on the phone with pagan, its sound like pagan dont regret it and enjoy it but its true pagan have some good point, but still an evil btw, if we can choose side with pagan at the start its no fun since pagan regyme already claim 80% of the map what i want is after the game end, i end my game without kiling pagan, but after put his mom ashes i RPG pagan Heli and kill him, then i also kill the other i choose (wether it amita/sabal) now acting as a new king but only have the north (the other map area is golden path) now back to reclaim it all

[@canberkozkayran]

@@rotua98 I would rather take Min’s side than Amita or Sabal though.

[@billy6044]

tenpenny from fallout 3 if you think about it megaton really was ruining his view.

[@pepsia6508]

Billy Thomson be honest those kids where dicks

[@noemogjiiohc6134]

Billy Thomson I told Care of that for him

[@noemogjiiohc6134]

Billy Thomson then I helped...the ghouls in ... In the worst way

[@Savage--]

*Clap Clap Clap Clap*

[@Keimotorider]

😂😂😂

[@Makarosc]

Did King Logan tell his subjects about the threat that would make him look a lot less tyrannical

[@Draeckon]

You assume anyone would believe him. More likely, they'd just think he was either crazy(ier) or that he was making excuses to consolidate his power.

[@larrymayfield6118]

He could have at least tried. If they're all cynical dicks thats their problem lol.

[@k4zum4s4m4]

Telling the masses the truth would either: 1. They dont believe him, and think he is trying to decieve them into subjugation, or 2. Cause mass panic, loss of order and a lot of unnecessary deaths

[@talltroll7092]

"Hey, everyone, there's a sinister, unstoppable dark force approaching that will inflict a fate worse than death on everyone in the Kingdom, when it arrives in about a year. Now, if we could all just put aside our petty differences, and pay lots of tax, we can afford... guys?". Logan was still a terrible King, because his solution was so bad, it led to his being deposed, but he was fundamentally doing the right thing

[@spacejesus6581]

@@talltroll7092 the thing is, he started out with good intentions, doing the bad stuff to get more money, but once he had gone that far, something switched within him to the point he realized there are no limits to what he can do and became power mad, it's like the Dark Side in Star Wars, you start wanting power to do the right thing, but in the end all you want is more power. Killing your sweetheart versus killing innocent protesters has no gain but to prove he has more power

[@adrianbryan4573]

Far Cry 4 was pretty messed up. I spared Pagan Min only for the Golden Path to make Kyrat even shittier. I wish the real ending was another choice: either leave Kyrat since you spread your mother's ashes or stay and take your country back from the corrupt Golden Path.

[@cegathelich]

DLC maybe? I don't know how DLC for the franchise works, but it sounds like it could work.

[@DaGrox94]

Well, there is that secret ending.

[@kenntrash]

The secret ending is the most fulfilling.

[@magadadaskolin4667]

"Use secret ending, then glory"

[@tictococlock6000]

I wish there was an ending where you don't choose who leads the Golden Path and kill both of them. Then you side with Pagan Min and yay! Kyrat isn't as corrupt as it should be.

[@Leto85]

05:01 'His point remains valid, even if his methods aren't.' And that's the core principle of what in my eyes makes for a good antagonist.

[@manuelmateo3392]

Only barely. In many ways, he's ultimately a complete hypocrite, using the exact same subversive methods as the people he claims to fight against.

[@Leto85]

@@manuelmateo3392 I see that happen more with antagonists. I can't recall anh example right now though.

[@charcole400]

Nah his methods were completely valid violence is needed for change to happen

[@Acacius1992]

@CharCole Depends on the situation. Sometimes violence only "change" things only for the worse.

[@charcole400]

@@Acacius1992 ya that’s true but this situation needs violence the people in power don’t give that power up so take it by force

[@topazmaymemory2982]

How to win fable Buy all the houses All of them Wait.

[@AllNiin]

I aways hated that you coudnt buy the castle and rent it. It was such a grat and unused place it would mean millions of investment

[@spacejesus6581]

@@AllNiin let your child be King or Queen for a day! Only 1,000,000 gold coins!

[@hillkids02]

Uh oh Spaghettio

[@god2593]

Adorable fursona my child.

[@yumri4]

you mean the long way of buying everything and waiting long enough so you can pay for the national army out of your own pocket? yeah i tried that took a few irl days to work but it did work kept every promise made too with enough gold left over to do more than just afford the army. Had to buy everything in the game and rent it all out though lost access to 1 area for not getting to it in proper part of the story so didn't do anything on that one dock area. Still unsure what the bad ending is as i never found a way to get it. Always got the good ending no matter how hard i tried to get the evil one.

[@TheRagdollrejects]

In Fable 3 I bought every house and business over time and paid for the army myself whilst keeping all the promises I made. I was basically Bill Gates.

[@chandlersteele9560]

Exactly. Buy every house, make the best decisions, and still have enough to save everyone.

[@dan7564]

Yeah but that's only because time only passed when you did edict event and the house money generation happened in real time. I think it would have been more interesting if there wasn't a way to have your cake and eat it too. A kind of dark knight decision. Either be hated by your people for their own good or loved by them and get a lot of them slaughtered.

[@NorbertCsecs]

Yep. Same. Remember the fucking pies I had to make for my first home

[@TheRagdollrejects]

MrZederikus Mate, I was a lute master! By the end of it I was Hendrix reborn. So much money made Lute soloing

[@ImperativeGames]

It was like game couldn't decide, is it serious for small children. The way it was possible to get entire country in your pocket (which is bollocks) if you played long enough destroyed story and immersion.

[@VisualGourmet]

They'd be lazily, badly written cliché villains, if they wouldn't have a point. The best villains are absolutely right.

[@VisualGourmet]

***** Good point. But I was actually talking about non-comedic games.

[@AgentCamtho1]

Paraphrasing Yahtzee Crossshaw, "There's something fascinating about somebody who self-identifies as the villain, he wears their label as a badge of honour"

[@mc_sea]

Yeah, I even saw a video about him that showed why he did some of his actions and how he really cares about his followers even if doesn't seem like it sometimes.

[@JayneCobb88]

+Spiritus Sancti Naw, the world is grey scale, not black and white.

[@VisualGourmet]

***** Your logic lacks actual logic.

[@GhettoJohnWick]

Actually, in fable 3, I managed to stay rich and mostly loved. There was only one pkace that hated me and I realized that I didn't even need to sacrifice them either after the fact. Then again, I did a hell of a lot of exploring and doubled back in every place I visited multiple times. On top of that, I joined other player's games too and got paid pretty well for my work.

[@JuliePeloquin]

I found the key to success, as in all fable games, was real estate

[@leeman27534]

@@JuliePeloquin not the first one. the key there is mostly 'buy all the things in the entire game', lol.

[@spacejesus6581]

@@leeman27534 in the first one you just speedrun until you reach the Arena, then fight until you’re about to fight the giant scorpion and retreat to the quarters, you get all the money and XP, save your hero and then load the game, restarting the Arena and giving infinite money/XP

[@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree]

Just gotta be a landlord, mate lol.

[@Neelmay13]

In Far cry 4 you can choose between. 1) The Dictator. Who will leave anyways. 2) The Drug Lord. Who is Pure evil. 3) The Extremests. Who want kill everyone who triggers them.

[@RevMirrane]

i choose 1

[@trocer2235]

i know the dictator. but whats the drug lord and extremists?

[@kasperlindstrom9990]

Amita, wanting to have a thriving nation through the use of drugs. Where the inhabitants either help or are against them.. Sabal, wanting and truly believing in traditions. To not loose Kyrat's heritage. Where anyone challenging that idea needs to be sacrificed to appease Kyra.

[@trocer2235]

+Kasper Lindström k, thanks for telling me.

[@duncannily]

pagan min all the way

[@lordkameguru7851]

I love Pagan Min. He's a bad guy, and good man, but damn if he isn't the best choice that shithole has.

[@bibleotaku]

same

[@Folopolis]

I feel like Andrew Ryan from Bioshock belongs on this list.

[@jubileechambers2604]

That was what I was thinking too.

[@greghendrixx]

pagan min is protagonist. golden path are terrorists

[@sithlordmichael2]

+Greg Hendrix basically! lol, I have always thought the golden path were the bad guys tbh 😂 I feel Like pegan wasn't as bad as vaas

[@MANDR4GON]

When I played Fable 3, I had so much money from buying and renting every single building in Albion that I was able to be a generous King AND pay for the whole army I needed with my own money with plenty leftover. And I only overcharged all my tenants until I was able to afford every building, then I went and reset them all at -20% pricing

[@iveyyewitt1621]

Did the same thing.

[@Violet-Spark]

So if you play as the Monopoly guy you get the best ending? Wild.

[@S1RLANC3]

@@Violet-Spark That's essentially what Tom Nook in Animal Crossing is and everyone seems to be happy.

[@leeman27534]

@@Violet-Spark yeah, economies in fable games are laughable fable 1, you could essentially break the game, get as much yellow exp, and basically all the stuff you could ever buy, like an hour in, given trading with people is both something you can upgrade, as well as dependent on the stockpile of items held by the vendor - buy an apple when he's got 20, it's probably discounted. buy his last one, it's probably expensive. so, just buy/sell everything in one go, and you're good. you can even sell stuff back to the same vendor, he'll pay full price for like 400 apples, and you can bu them back for as cheap as a single apple can ever get, for the whole shebang, despite getting top price for them a second ago fable 2/3, buying up property can make money slower than the jobs, but you can also just cheese it by buying a couple dozen places, change the date to a month later, and log back in and be rich.

[@K-vz4gd]

@@S1RLANC3 animal crossing is a piece of shit why you even talking about mobile games

[@paulweyer4339]

Weird fact; Anarky was intended to become robin at one point but it didn'tpan out. I always found him to be a great rival for tim drake specifically.

[@emberfist8347]

What I find odd is their inclusion of Arkham Origins Anarky. Unlike the one from the comics who avoids hurting innocent people, the one from this game has a deliberately inconsistent philosophy.

[@paulweyer4339]

@Ember Fist hurting people doesn't necessarily invalidate an abstract point that the character makes. It certainly can, so when you need to remind the audience that "villain bad," you undercut their message with their actions. If anarky were meant to be the focus of the game and not a side story, they'd probably have to use him with a lot more thought.

[@emberfist8347]

@@paulweyer4339 No they deliberately wrote him to be inconsistent in his ideology as he is just a kid. This is most obvious when you finally face he wants you to join him then he wants to kill you because you refuse and when he is arrested he has a monologue about how he wants to help you only to reverse his position again halfway through.

[@paulweyer4339]

@Ember Fist I see what you mean. I think it may come down to splitting hairs in whether you feel having methodology clash with ideology compromises the ideology itself. I would say it doesn't but I understand why you might see it differently.

[@zooter303]

If you had read the journals/notes that belonged to a doctor in The Last of Us, you'd know that the surgeries rarely worked and the Fireflies only did it to keep morale up. That's why Joel had gone back to save Ellie.

[@k1tdragon5]

I think I know which one you talking about. For that specific entry, the doctor said that when compared to other infected, Ellie shared similar conditions, but there are few unique conditions which only Ellie have that made her "immune" and prevent her from being turned. So, instead of using the cordyceps fungus that is traditionally found in infected, the doctor wanted to use Ellie's cordyceps and make a vaccine or at least mimic her condition. Plus, to be able to make a vaccine or mimic Ellie's condition is not guaranteed either.

[@BigBad-Wolf]

Especially that you can't make vaccines for fungi.

[@scottlynch9842]

Not to mention humanity was already starting to recover during the game and that having an immunity to cordyceps was not going "save the world" as many who played the game would of thought.

[@TheSweetSpirit]

Based on Kenny Tran's explanation of the document, it would technically be a vaccine. For fungi. It just works differently. The theory there is to infect you with the strain of cordyceps that does not turn you into a zombie, so that the more dangerous version of cordyceps cannot infect you because the path/location it needs to infect you at is already 'used up' by the supposedly harmless cordyceps. Theoretically.

[@Ioreck]

Yeah, I mean no offense but there wasn't even a guarantee that they'd successfully create a vaccine. The resources of the Fireglies were impressive by post-apocalyptic standards, but they were no where near to a functioning government. Even IF they create the vaccine, how do they distribute it? Basically all major infrastructure has been destroyed or withered into disrepair. And even IF they could distribute it all over the country, that doesn't solve the problem that there are still millions of infected wandering about. Sure you may not catch the disease, but you can still be eaten alive. Some might have sacrificed Ellie for the CHANCE of a vaccine, but not Joel who has spent the last several months (at least) doing everything in his power to keep her alive and forming a bond with her.

[@famtamradek5733]

For the last of us, there were no good guys or bad guys. That's the whole point of the story. It's just the last humans fighting like they always have.

[@snapslav]

Except for that one cannibal guy who was an implied rapist. He was pretty damn bad.

[@nuka._.gh0ul741]

+thekillers1stfan think about it even if the fireflies got the vaccine how would they distribute it all?

[@thekillers1stfan]

Nuka._.gh0ul It's not like it would immediately be available to everyone but they would certainly be able to distribute it throughout their ranks and then possibly set up clinics throughout the country and/or sell it to doctors and hospitals as they came into contact with them. It's a pretty simple progression actually.

[@UltimateWolfy]

Not to mention there is a recording you can find where they will admit that there have been other people immune to the infection that they operated on and failed at getting a vaccine from.

[@xElitemembers]

+UltimateWolfy so a sacrificing a couple of people is worth saving humanity it doesn't matter how many fails theyre were if there's a chance to save the human race then u take it

[@Mistertbones]

"It's a face, not a bikini line!" - Jane Douglas, 2016.

[@gihanprabash]

It'd look perfect if he had a butt-chin

[@miyakothecyberlesbian6315]

Fuck off lady no female should ever shave it at all

[@Dream146]

@@miyakothecyberlesbian6315 anyone can shave anything they want on their body.

[@formula2233]

@@miyakothecyberlesbian6315 Bush scrotum spotted

[@fuze7885]

haha i got to that part right as i read this

[@sgtreznov6525]

I love the guy behind pagan while he was killing someone with a pen, just like "oh hell nah"

[@InugamiTheHound]

Pagan Min is fucking awesome in far cry 4. I wish Ubisoft could have given us a choice to to become rulers of Kyrat. Pagan Min himself said it belongs to us and one day we'll kill Amita and Sabel and take throne back.

[@troopus4302]

I wish you would have got to choose if you wanted to fight against or with the golden path

[@Rob-sf4xy]

There is when pagan min ask you to wait while he is torturing the other guy that got into his house with you actually wait for 10 minutes he will comeback and you will see for yourself

[@Jacob-gp7mx]

+Roberto Marú but it's not a proper ending, it's like a 5 minute tease of awesomeness

[@SMgrimbldoo]

Missed an opportunity for a dlc.

[@InugamiTheHound]

S.M. grimbldoo it could be a what if DLC like "The Tyranny of King Washington"

[@DGneoseeker1]

It's OK guys. Just wait for Pagan Min to come back and enjoy the Crab Rangoon to get the best ending.

[@UnBR0k3enAngel]

That ending should be cannon.

[@DGneoseeker1]

UnBR0k3enAngel I will fight anyone who says it is not.

[@UnBR0k3enAngel]

DGneoseeker1 I will be on your side.

[@lars8782]

it /was/ the best ending at that, argh. wish they'd made some kinda dlc for it or something, anything. >_>

[@jasperzanovich2504]

I wish you could actually play on thatbranch, fighting for Pagan Min and killing the Golden Path.

[@anggoroputra5660]

Damn... i guess i should've just stayed in the dining room, enjoying the crab rangoon...

[@xXSlashEffectXx]

The crab Rangoon, am I right? It's delicious

[@EmperorOmnom]

You can actually.. :3 You can trigger a secret ending if you stay for like fifteen minutes I believe?

[@xXSlashEffectXx]

+SimpDev yeah. I was tying to say what min said. It was something like "The Crab Rangoon, riiight? It's HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA delicious"

[@xXSlashEffectXx]

+SimpDev yeah. I was tying to say what min said. It was something like "The Crab Rangoon, riiight? It's HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA delicious"

[@EmperorOmnom]

LivingShadow13 Yep xD

[@Skyarmychic]

Weirdly enough. Handsome Jack deserves an honerable mention from me. Atleast until he went full blown murderer because he enjoyed the fight

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

And because everyone he'd ever given even the slightest trust towards betrayed him outright.

[@ThePheonix66]

@@MrJinglejanglejingle Do the Vault Hunters, specifically Athena, in the Presequel fall under that category, or do they just count as "following his orders"? This is given that Wilhelm and technically Nisha are still loyal to him in BL2.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

@@ThePheonix66 Not 100% certain, honestly. We don't really know why they stuck with him. But we do know what happened to Wilhelm, so...

[@johncornett8884]

No Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2 and 1 1/2? He may have been crazy buuuut he’s got a bit of a point

[@DocD4nk]

Id say hes probably the most validated villian up to Thanos

[@Santeneal]

@@DocD4nk in all honesty he was right in a way

[@quinntrbl]

@@Santeneal Thinking about it, yeah. Pandora is a shitshow of a planet and he wanted to fix it. Though most of his decisions were fucking terrible, atleast his intentions were somewhat good 🤷‍♀️

[@Santeneal]

@B_x !! honestly even if you couldn't side with Jack he doesn't deserve to die. I mean Lilith scared his face, made him lose the use of an eye then you go kill his daughter the only family he most likely has left the vault hunters could have just taken him prisoner

[@Santeneal]

@B_x !! ya I know

[@taylortierney6542]

I really wish that there had been a DLC for Far Cry 4 that gave best ending a full campaign, where Pagan teaches you about the beauty of Kyrat, while you cleanse a few infestations with him, accompanied by some great hits from the 80s blaring in the background.

[@NewPaulActs17]

instead: YETIS!!!

[@AZOLOB]

agreed

[@FelipeKana1]

Is it true that the DLC for FC4 figures a Piece of Eden? (from the Assassin's Creed mithology)

[@taylortierney6542]

Felipe Carvalho IT might be. Far Cry 3 had some DLC talking about the evil company from AC (Abstergo?).

[@dominicdibenedetto6558]

there is Farcry yetis and there are the bonus hurt missions

[@connorrandles8709]

Left out every single Metal Gear antagonist.

[@jasoncase9481]

Wow really now your just being ludacrious. Even if they do have a valid point the methods are messy tactics.

[@connorrandles8709]

Except Volgin

[@jasoncase9481]

***** IConnor Randles And how exactly did Raven have a valid point?

[@jasoncase9481]

***** I would need to look him up. Villains can have valid points the problem is how do they accomplish their goals? Typically it's through destructive messy methods and with a complete disregard for bystanders. To them if they have to step on the toes of bystanders they'll say the whole old as a watch : "The ends justify the means."

[@connorrandles8709]

Jason Case Obviously I'm talking about the main antagonists.

[@game4fun100]

"When there is evil in this world that justice cannot defeat, would you taint your hands with evil to defeat evil? Or would you remain steadfast and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil?"

[@heededshadow509]

I'm stealing this-

[@revanche1431]

In your quote, is a good person being forced by an evil person to stop the evil act by doing an evil thing? Cuz being forced by another person to do an evil act doesn't make you evil, it makes the evil person more evil.

[@heededshadow509]

@@revanche1431 The question's basically "do the ends justify the means".

[@manuelmateo3392]

@@heededshadow509 You don't, It'll make you look stupid.

[@Acacius1992]

@Revanche Well depends how the "force" you.

[@squaredup1800]

I gotta say I pretty much agree with Anarky something close to 100%.

[@hnnnnnnnm199]

Squared Up honestly same

[@willieoelkers5568]

Nah, he's just reaching for justifications. People say the ends justify the means, I say the means shape the ends. When has murder and terror ever created something worthwhile?

[@comewatchfights9112]

The Roman Empire.

[@bryansmith844]

It’s Matt Mercer’s voice making him sound so reasonable. :)

[@Drace90]

Minus the bombs... right?

[@eden8431]

Wow, Anarchy is a pretty cool character he should be used in more stories

[@AceBattleStorm]

+mrwindupbird101 that's why I honestly don't like batman. His methods aren't very good. He could have saved many people if he put down villains, rather than let the villains free by putting them in the jail they will soon escape from

[@eden8431]

Lol, you guys sound like Red Hood

[@eden8431]

+Eden Is A Unicorn And I completely agree with everything, most people can change but they aren't given a chance and I hate killing but sometimes it truly is the only option its like what Joker said "So are you going to do it this time? Or just put me in another body cast for six months" If he can injure people to the extent he can then he can kill for the greater good. Its his antiquated sense of morality in Jason Todd's words that keep him from doing what is truly right he has to get over his dead parents and be logical, he is killing those people just as much as Joker his because he let the Joker live.

[@Quinntus79]

I have a theory that Bruce Wayne could do more good for Gotham than Batman ever could. With his money he could easily fund the campaigns of any politicians he wanted to run for office. Meaning he could choose politicians who want to serve, rather than further there own ambitions. He could also use that money to buy up real estate, create affordable housing, and employ people. People are less likely to turn to crime if they have a job and a roof over their head.

[@mrwindupbird101]

Eden Is A Unicorn Exactly, like the first time someone goes on a crazy fueled kill spree, lock them up. If they escape and do it again, tighten security. If they do it for the next 30 years, all those dead innocents are on your head though. And Batman isn't above letting someone he likes get away with crimes if it suits him so just let ol Hood to go visit the Joker for one night while the Bat is on the other side of Gotham.

[@willofbob]

One thing that always puzzled me is why King Logan didn't just tell people the Crawler was coming. I'm pretty sure you'd get less disagreements about the high taxes if people knew they were going to fight the Elder Gods.

[@wtfisawohde3660]

Logan wasn't a good person. Trying to protect your kingdom from invasion is just what leaders do, even evil ones.

[@Aska2468]

I'm still wondering why THE PLAYER couldn't tell people about the Crawler, I mean something like "Hey, listen, Page. I know child labor is bad but we're preparing for war here. Would you rather those kids died instead of helping us all survive? We can form schools afterwards." The Hero was a popular guy/girl, I'm sure at least some people would understand, those who didn't wouldn't have a choice.

[@southparkkenny2]

Aska2468 The game handwaves it away by saying Reaver (the guy who makes all the buildings and renovations) leaves Albion after the game so that's why you can't make evil choices then revert them after the Crawler attacks. (It's a shit justification but that's what they said)

[@Aska2468]

southparkkenny2 It really is a shit justification. Since the Hero spends their days after the final battle doing nothing, they could easily go to the industrial district, gather some volunteers, clear out the factory those children were working at of tools and machinery and make some damn desks. Just because Reaver left Albion after the battle means the infrastructure and economy has to be frozen solid? Is nobody is willing to take Reaver's place?

[@8035568045]

What I'm wondering is if buying property was so cheaply why didn't the king himself buy up all the houses and store and fund the war, that's what I did. I had 50,000,000 when I finally took over and transference it all to the treasury. Got to keep all my promises.

[@absolutumiocus2749]

Outsidexbox: The fireflies would have saved humanity. MatPat: Let me introduce myself

[@azural5722]

The fact that fungal vaccines don’t exist + vaccines aren’t bloody cures + Fireflies don’t have a single certified doctor on hand: Let us introduce ourselves

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

I wonder if the Geneva conventions cover tortured memes.

[@jamespratt4260]

@@azural5722 but in reality if you start to put real life logic in the game almost non of it makes any sense whatsoever

[@abigailslade3824]

Fireflies are bloody incompetent no point in trusting them to save the world.

[@MsKeylas]

@@jamespratt4260 But last of us works on realistic logics. It is a what if Cordyceps affected not just ants but humans. Besides Cordyceps fungal virus world is as realistic as it could possibly be

[@names7278]

No Jane, always make decisions based on the hat you get.

[@dooplon5083]

If she gets a Sombrero dies that mea. she should learn Spanish.

[@danfinch5692]

And when there is no hat to get?

[@MalevolentYokai]

True chaos

[@insanitybrickboi7168]

+Danny Fink just murder every NPC in the game if there's no hat

[@ravelordnito9211]

Just ask fallout 4. Side with literally anyone other than the Brotherhood of steel and get Elder Maxson's sweet jacket!

[@VultureXV]

Actually the whole reason Pagan Min is the bad guy is because the Golden Path killed Lakshmana Min, the protag's half sister. He was honestly a pretty okay dude.

[@cegathelich]

Wait wait wait a minute. Wouldn't that make the Golden Path the bad guys? Y'know, since they apparently killed the protag's half sister, thus turning the protag *against* them?

[@EcchiRevenge]

You just realized? I thought the fact that the ending being a choice between turning country into North Korea or ISIS Islam Caliphate would make it pretty obvious. "Hidden" ending is best(the one where you just sit at the table and wait).

[@bguzewi0]

Yeah, I mean honestly I never felt compelled to fight against Pagan. "Oooo, he stabbed some anonymous guard and some guy who I can't even remember his name." I'm sure he had his reasons. Besides, you know how many people I stabbed along the way to overthrowing Pagan? Hundreds. Who's the real monster?

[@gunslingersnave5077]

Also he is funny as hell, some of his lines were the funniest ive heard in gaming.

[@vicky248123]

+StarWarsJockey its not just about what he's done its about what kyrat will be in the end and his rule sounds better than the solutions the golden path has to offer

[@ItsYaBoiV]

There are many times where I would side with the "bad guy" in a game if given the choice.

[@jokermaness]

like?

[@okhalo45]

Any game that trades morals for cool powers.

[@okhalo45]

Any game that trades morals for cool powers.

[@pipistrelle9814]

+okhalo45 infamous

[@MyVanir]

Morals. Morale is not what you seem to think it is.

[@Xolaeth]

"Horrors from beyond the veil of time and space are coming to eat us so shut up, sounds like a pretty good draw card for a leader to have." - Yahtzee on Fable 3

[@ShinKyou918]

I'm reminded of the saying, "Every villain is a hero in his own mind." The most fascinating and well-written villains are always the ones with identifiable reasons for doing what they've done, rather than the cookie-cutter "Imma do bad things cuz I'm bad" sorts.

[@giin97]

They're the best because they're realistic. They have a separate ideology of what's right and wrong, and you just so happen to play as someone from the competing ideology. It's like Democrats and Republicans. They both see the other as hateful bigots trying to destroy America, and themselves as the patriotic saviors trying to restore it. In some ways, they're both right, and they're both wrong. What we've lost is the ability to meet in the middle and legislate the best of both worlds. Fun times.

[@ShinKyou918]

Topical, and actually quite true. Nice observation!

[@sexualpan6279]

+Ryan Gunn - You ruined your comment by using politics as an example.

[@n0where_girl948]

+Sexual Pan Nah, it was a great comment.

[@n0where_girl948]

Nkechi Nnachetta *ahem* liketheJoker ;) You can pull off anything if it's done well and makes sense.

[@EddyMac1903]

I thought Alduin the World Eater had a point. I mean, it's a world where Braith exists, so... Tuck in.

[@CherryScent]

Braith and The Man Who Sucked Everyone In The Cloud District's Dick

[@AnesidoraAston]

+Graviton Forfeit Hey now. Nazeem's achievement is actually pretty impressive.

[@HunterRodrigez]

i always wondered how literal the whole "world eater" part is...

[@Quillever]

I always thought the world eater title was just part of Alduin's legend and that he really wanted to bring Skyrim back to the days when the dragons ruled over the country.

[@rowplatts]

We alduin in this world, it's all shit anyway. plus I live in it, so that's a great reason right there

[@livevive5562]

I really feel like we should have been able to kill both Amita and Sabal in far cry 4

[@cian9393]

Oliver Chapman I did I killed Anita then went back and killed Sabal

[@charlottewalnut3118]

Oliver Chapman I did that

[@LucianMelb]

You can actually end the game, ....right at the start. After the bus scene at the start, you go to Pagan's house and he says to wait 10 or 15 minutes. If you actually wait, he will return and you will have the ending.....at the start of the game. :), Weird, right?

[@scotthollis4521]

I agree; I kinda got annoyed that I was the one that did everything, then had to turn the country I pretty much single headedly liberated over to someone who'd screw it up even more

[@the_punch_line9474]

Oliver Chapman i did.

[@The_fortnite_guy1]

Batman in a nutshell: I GOTTA FIND THE BAD GUY AND PUNCH HIM A LOT REALLY HARD

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

Then get sanctimonious on people who also beat the crap out of bad guys.

[@ARUCARDFTEPES]

@@Delightfully_Bitchy Leave him alone! Did you know his parents were murdered????

[@PepperKatLancer]

Handsome Jack had a point he was egotistical but had a point. the vault hunters were the raiders of Pandora

[@marty3020]

Pepper Playing through the pre-sequel and Tales from the Borderlands made me realise that not only is he a great villain, but yes he indeed have a point.

[@Objectorbit]

Yeah Handsome Jack was created very much by Lilith's idiocy, and the larger narrative was basically "Jesus Christ you dumb fuck you did this to yourself congrats you moron"

[@mandoschMUh]

Isn't there an alternative ending for FC4? You just have to wait for the villain to return in the beginning and beat the game without any huzzle.

[@JoshuaRWorkman]

Yes. After the intro portion, Pagan Min sits Ajay down to dinner with himself and a few other guys, stabs one of the back after catching him texting the Golden Path for help, then leaves to suppress the uprising. If you decide to wait there, Pagan Min will be happy Ajay waited for him and takes him to the peak of the mountain via his helicopter to leave Ajay's mother's ashes. It's winning while doing aboing absolutely nothing because that's all Ajay wanted to do.

[@decodyg484]

For real?!? LOL . Talk about speed run

[@James-mm2zc]

The crab rangoon right?

[@mandoschMUh]

@@James-mm2zc I've no idea what that means :D never played the game.

[@rotua98]

@@mandoschMUh that what they eat during that first scene

[@kioftor]

Most the the time, the problem is not about if they have a point, but how they are making it.

[@spazman12342]

Amen

[@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet]

I've found that to be how everything works.

[@yourpsychicfriendfredbear]

Murder can work after a while. People usually respond to fear.

[@decodyg484]

@@yourpsychicfriendfredbear you can't murder ideas. Faith is more moving than fear. Fear is not respect. An afraid person can be the most irrational and dangerous. A mind broken with fear will no longer know fear

[@decodyg484]

The means to an end. You don't burn down the house when the roof leaks. Or cut off the jammed toe

[@revolver265]

My phone crashed, so I put in headphones and watched the rest of this video on my laptop. After immediately dropping me into the video again, the first thing I heard was the gunshot at the end of the clip for "The Last of Us" at full volume. Worst jumpscare in a while, compounded by the fact that it isn't even a scare if I hadn't watched him take out the gun and point it first because I'd be expecting the gunshot. Thanks KZbin.

[@plant3341]

anything: * happens * Batman: BATPUNCH

[@T1Oracle]

🦇👊

[@sizenplace4554]

batman intesifies

[@hillkids02]

Joker: ALL WOMEN ARE QUEENS!!! Batman: IF SHE BREATHES SHES A THOOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!!!!!!! Everyone watching: THE WHAT!?

[@SuperPixelRush]

Anarky does have a point about Batman being the cause of everything. I mean, he did indirectly create the Joker, and maybe Hush. And Bane wouldn't have traveled to Gotham to challenge him.

[@TB--sp9wy]

How did he create the Joker?

[@XRay22AW]

joker fell into a giant container of acid because of him and those chemicals are part of the reason he is what he is today.

[@johnson0408]

Thats only in a movie. Joker doesn't have an origin in the comics. As he stated, he "like it multiple choice", and he makes up several origin stories for himself.

[@SuperPixelRush]

H. John Well, I mean, the Killing Joke is pretty much considered the best Batman story of all time. And the multiple choice line is from that.

[@johnson0408]

PixelRush exactly, so Batman couldn't have indirectly created the Joker.

[@isaacgleeth3609]

I do believe that Anarky is right about everything. Bruce could have saved Gotham City long ago if he had been more willing to do what is necessary. Should he indiscriminately kill every criminal? No, just those who deserve it, especially Joker. But he can't do that, because his precious moral code is much more important than the thousands that the Clown Prince has killed (Jason Todd) and the many more that have suffered (Barbara Gordon). THAT is the definition of arrogance.

[@squeaiker]

The more I think about it, the more I realize batman is actually as bad as the rest of Gotham's villains (I guess that's sort of the whole underlying plot in the Gotham games). Most of them are either crazy, misunderstood or justified. Batman is just a histrionic sociopath. Of course he doesn't want to kill the terrorists and psychopaths, he gets so much validation and 'fun' out of it. Sure, he does some good when he saves people and as Bruce Wayne when he throws money around him, but I think it's disingenuous. Once again I think he just loves the attention and validation.

[@jessebusby5431]

Isaac Gleeth Jason isn't dead

[@chongweiliang6328]

In batman arkham city game batman finally let joker died because he kill talia

[@karkatvantas9557]

No, in Arkham City Joker destroys the cure by accident. Batman even says "Even after everything you've done, I still would have saved you."

[@artemisentreri-isaacs3059]

Chong Weiliang what, no. Lmao. He goes out of his way to still try and save Joker. Joker dies because Joker screws up really hard. Regardless, yeah, with the money Bruce has, it's entirely reasonable to think that he could invest in better infrastructure in the city and remove corruption over time. But he doesn't. He goes all vigilante. Most Batman villains seem far more partial than many villains in other comics, and it's because they exist due to Gotham's corruption. Batman never seeks to solve that issue beyond putting people in Arkham. Because of that, the cycle will never end. The GCPD is always corrupt, and Batman's friends suffer. While you can't really condone Anarky, you can easily understand why. And realistically, Batman is simply another problem invented by Gotham itself. A vigilante is still a grievous offense to justice most of the time.

[@winstein3689]

Mercer In Skyrim. "Were thieves, were supposed to steal." He robs the guild blind and hypocritically they get get mad about It. Thieves being organized Is ridiculous and almost never ends well.

[@deadersurvival4716]

You've clearly never seen American politics.

[@codyreed717]

Or heard the phrase honor among thieves

[@Skullhawk13]

@@codyreed717 honor among thieves just means don’t screw each other on a job. It doesn’t mean you’re honorable forever just cause you’re both thieves. Why WOULDN’T they all have their own vaults and only give a cut to the guild?

[@Neion8]

Tbf the Thieves Guild in Skyrim takes an approach to thieving similar to the Dark Brotherhood does to murder; you get contracted to steal particular items (or target a particular person/business for economic ruination) and by being a useful tool they are tolerated - even funded - by the powerful. That's a whole lot different to the regular/our idea of thievery which is just a lone person taking other's property for their own benefit. It's the difference between an amateur and a professional so I totally understand why it'd have a different culture and set of expectations in the same way that Dark Brotherhood members despite being murderers don't typically go around murdering each other.

[@CapitalMort]

I never considered marlene in TLOU bad. What she wanted was for the greater good and I think Ellie would have agreed with her.

[@camerabox1]

well it is technically the games' antagonist, therefore making her the bad guy

[@Spikeupine]

+The Camera Box just because they're an antagonist doesn't mean they're the bad guy, it just means they're the opposition of the main character

[@Freshie207]

Maybe it's just me but when I finished TLOU I interpreted the ending to be a passing of judgement on the human race, after seeing all the bitter fighting Joel had seen he'd completely given up on the human race and willingly doomed it to extinction. The way I see it Joel is the villain, it's just he happens to be a relatable one

[@buttAttack]

an antagonist does not have to be a bad guy.. The antagonist just simply has to be working against the main character...

[@ZevianAlter]

Humanity was too far gone a cure would only help stop the infection buy the real problem is people.

[@KyleCorbeau]

11:24 To be fair, from the lab notes left about, they've tried this with "other patients" before and failed miserably each time. Instead of killing off the few who are 'immune' to the fungus why not gene therapy the sucker and start sequencing her DNA to at least start those trials first. That seemed more reasonable to me, since the alternative looked like just killing off another of the few who were immune.

[@probablyslept8142]

Excellent point, I never even considered that.

[@LunarEdge7]

If something like this fungus-- thing.. happens, we'll call you for help, Kyle.

[@richardommundsen2417]

Because they have basically no idea what they're doing. They're the dregs of the scientific community, the rest are either working for the government, or are all dead, and they're grasping at straws trying to do anything they can

[@Snipreesh]

they said it would've been a 100% guaranteed vaccine

[@KyleCorbeau]

Sniper3CVF And I'm fairly certain they said that about the several times they tried to make a vaccine before Ellie came about as well, right up until their attempts failed. When you're desperate for something to work, you'll say whatever it takes to keep hope going whether it can be substantiated or not. Credit where it's due, there's no better motivator than simply trying to stay alive and save your (remaining) loved ones.

[@alexadamson1948]

Surprised Handsome Jack wasn't on here.

[@Ant100mc]

me to honestly

[@walterc.dornez7672]

because he kinda was a huge asshole and killed alot of people for no good reason, I mean jack and Roland had the same exact goals except jack wanted to control the warrior to subjugate and kill people

[@georgerose1252]

Jack didn't have a point, though. He wanted to make Pandora a dictatorship over an anarchy, which isn't really all that great either.

[@Lexi123459876]

+Walter C. Dornez (The Angel Of Death) But Jack was mostly doing that for revenge after the crimson raiders kinda sabotaged him for no reason and his girlfriend betrayed him for no reason in Pre-Sequal... He was a pretty cool guy.

[@ablackbunny3149]

+George Rose (ONI Section Zero) at least there would be order

[@ggEmolicious]

When your chin has a landing strip, it makes you curious about what’s flying into there.

[@GordonGarvey]

3:17 I've played through all of Fable 3 knowing there was something familiar about Logan's voice and have now just realized it's Michael Fassbender.

[@-Miasimon]

You know, to the antagonist, your character is the "bad guy". Going by that, at the very least 50% of "bad guys" in games have a point.

[@nacure360]

Only the joker was really evil, he didn't have a reason to do anything, he just wanted to fk the world up

[@energydragonslayer2681]

Well, technically the joker is not that much of a bad guy because he knows the world he is in, is not real. he also knows that he is in a comic/game and that the world he is in needs a bad guy. he also knows that characters in comics which are not important become forgotten and that batman needs a main villain so that the comics can continue.

[@thetoontastictoon1720]

+Energy DRAGPNSLAYER Wow, I had no idea that the "Joker" character from Batman was actually a fourth-wall breaker... I thought ALL of the characters in that series acted as if their world was real, like how our world is the real world, I didn't figure any of them knew they were in a comic. But of course, that's probably because I never looked at a single Batman comic, show, or anything. I just heard about the basic stuff. But upon reading this comment, I might look into it, I just might.

[@PeehPeh]

Oh so that explains why he doesnt reveal his backstory, he knows it gets changed in the next issue lol

[@mrr_edits_]

Handsome FUCKING Jack

[@kaliviniski1114]

Handsome Jack wanted to purify Pandora from all the bandits and marauders and lawless mercenaries (vault hunters) to do so he needed The Warrior to be under his command.

[@BlindRamb0]

yeah but he had no real good intentions for a end game and remember he had innocent people killed not just bandits

[@poptop89]

Handsome Jack's story is more one of good intentions gone bad. Can't say much without spoiling it, but he HAD good intention. It's just that after the events of Pre-Sequel, those he loved turning on him, constantly being interrupted at every turn, and no one really giving him a figurative shot without firing a literal shot at him he eventually became the dickish, murderous, relentless and merciless man we now him as now. If you've never played Pre-Sequel, it's not the best game ever, but it does do what it set out to do, give more insight as to Jack's reasons for what he did.

[@BlindRamb0]

+poptop89 that's what I thought but he was a bad Apple before his apperent corruption started hence why he has a double and getting shot at lol

[@poptop89]

Yeah, yeah. He was still bad. He wasn't GREAT. But He wasn't that bad. He is in a sort of "I have a good idea, I just have a bad way of doing it" He wants to bring Pandora to peace, that's a great idea, he just has a bad way of pulling it off. Most of the innocent killings happen as his frustration and resentment to the world grows.

[@willmdrelmtopper9767]

You forgot "Kain from Legacy of Kain" . The first few games he seems like the villain but in the end he was right all along because he was just trying to protect the world from a hidden threat. Some sort of greenish gas entities that possess people from another dimension or something , I don't know they never fully explained it nor did the game developers ever finish the series.

[@hollandscottthomas]

Still one of the best protagonists from a criminally underrated franchise.

[@miker3137]

Defiance was technically supposed to be the end...with killing the elder god

[@SubBronze]

It's fine and dandy to save money to save Albion, but did you really have to traumatise your brother by threatening to kill either his best friend or 15 innocent people? Kind of a dick move.

[@christiand1337]

Trauma can leave lasting scars, and by association lasting lessons. To a tyrant who believes (maybe rightly so) that the ends justify the means, his purpose could be as stated: he regularly has to make hard decisions, investing in the future of the safety of the nation by sacrificing freedom, safety, and life now. He was likely a good dude until he saw the truth of what was coming, and that caused him to become desperate.

[@secretagentlucario]

Why the fuck do so many people think that Joel was right? Marlene was obviously right and Joel is a monster.

[@dylanmckenna4760]

I know, right? I mean, has he never heard of the phrase "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"?

[@Greyghostvol1]

Ya, lots of players do think that Joel wasn't all that bad in the end. Frankly, it's really just our own psychology getting in the way. It's like when people cheer for The Punisher or Rorschach even after they find out just how 'anti' an anti-hero they really are. We don't like finding out that the supposed protagonist we've been routing for the whole time, was actually more of a villain than anything else. Also, his motivations are sympathetic. They're wholly selfish, mind you, as even Ellie was fine (if I remember correctly, it's been a while) with going through the process, but his selfishness is understandable.

[@ttv0]

+Greyghostvol1 The Punisher and Rorschach were meant to provoke thought as to whether or not they were in the right

[@dylanmckenna4760]

Greyghostvol1 It doesn't help his case that he just straight up lied to Ellie about it though. I'm sure that if he had simply told her that he thought of her as his adopted daughter, she most likely would've understood.

[@Greyghostvol1]

Dylan McKenna right. now that I remember it, Ellie wasn't given an option at all. Frankly, I'm not sure if Ellie would have agreed with Joel. probably would have, but her motivation was finding a cure, so she very well might have agreed with the procedure. The problem is that Joel took her decision and will completely off the table, so we might never know how she would feel about it.

[@spamhere1123]

I don't think Joel from Last of Us thought killing Ellie was the "wrong thing to do". I don't think he cared about right or wrong anymore. He cared about Ellie. As far as the rest of the world was concerned, they could all rot into a giant pile of semi-sentient fungus. And I get it. Sure, it's selfish, but who out there cared about Joel--other than Ellie? Pretty much everyone he met tried to rob him, kill him, _eat_ him...why would he sacrifice something so important to him for a world that was gone beyond recovery, in which the denizens, even the still-sapient ones, are barely above animals? Joel did what was best for Joel and what Joel cared about. I can't for the life of me think of a real reason why he should have done anything else.

[@Sagnus1]

By murdering even more people, he's sacrificing people he doesn't care about to save the one he does. That's selfish, not saying I wouldn't feel the same in his position but that's what it is.

[@bluesoulchris6230]

+Sagnus1 Selfish for a good reason

[@CodeRed99911]

+UltimaKeyMaster Actually the whole thing would have failed. Ellie isn't immune in the sense that the fungus can't infect her, she's been infected with a mutated strain that doesn't drive you insane and keeps all the insanity strains out of your head. They were trying to create a vaccine for a fungus when they should have been taking a look at their anti fungal developments and compare what effect they have on the cordecyps instead of cutting up multiple "immune" people to develop a cure that was never going to be a cure in the first place. Joel isn't in the right for killing all those fireflies, but they weren't in the right either for removing the brains of people without the medical knowledge to know that this whole plan of theirs wasn't going to work from the beginning.

[@slainemccool2875]

Killing the doctors now that was "wrong"

[@spamhere1123]

+UltimaKeyMaster Even if the cure worked, the world was beyond recovery. Humanity had regressed, social order had broken down, and nothing short of a massive armed takeover/subjugation from some miraculously incorruptible sorts would have restored order. +Slaine McCool Again, Joel didn't care.

[@xXAkitokunXx]

In fable i invested all into the housing, where I made so much money I was able to do all the good! Money is the source of happiness only if you have it!

[@MitchThePlank]

Killing how many people to own homes?

[@dark_winter8238]

@@MitchThePlank did not have to kill people in fable 3 to buy homes

[@KingAdrock420]

Except in Fable 3, the villain having a point is expressly part of the plot, not something you realize "Now I Think About It". Logan is a tyrant and an asshole, but he's trying to raise an army to fight the creeper. Once you get on the throne, you quickly realize "doing the right thing" isn't as easy as one might think.

[@blainehowes5242]

Actually, the thought I realized when I got the throne was 'great, now I have something to do with all this useless money' and proceeded to single handedly fund the kingdom. I may have had a different playing experience than everyone else, though.

[@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli]

It's part of the plot, but more of a spoiler if anything. You're not supposed to know that beforehand. But that's the same with Far Cry 4 and The Last of Us as well. Part of the plot. Really just a spoiler, not a convoluted motivation.

[@Worldslargestipod]

Unless you farm gold like a maniac, buy all the properties in Albion and use the rent to fund your war like I did.

[@Corey1873]

Exactly as Blaine said. Seeing how easy it is to make money in real estate it just makes Logan look incompetent.

[@KingAdrock420]

Corey1873 Agreed, that what I did as well. If you invest and rent out all of Albion, you can easily fund the war AND keep all your promises; especially if you don't rush to kick Logan out.

[@connorking984]

Is the title supposed to be: now that I think about it. Instead of: now I think about it.

[@imageeknotanerd9897]

Using proper grammar, your correction would be right. However, the "that" can be omitted in informal context such as KZbin.

[@outsidexbox]

No.

[@WorldoftheLegends]

do i know you?

[@Hoonters-goona-Hoont]

Britishisms. You don't have to to understand it.

[@danm2084]

now that I think about it, it is supposed to be now that I think about it. ya it bothered me too. idk why such petty things bother me, but I'm always glad to see other people point it out xD

[@JakobTheCenturion]

Actually, you find out through little hidden thingies that Marlene and the Fireflies have found hundreds of people who are immune to the fungus, like Ellie. She's desperate to get Ellie under the scalpel because she's the last one they've found in a while, and they've already managed to kill the others they've found. So yeah, Joel was in the right, and Marlene saw Ellie as another chance.

[@Goraka91]

It's kind of unclear, but personally that's definitely my interpretation. And even IF killing child somehow wound up making a cure, the Fireflies wouldn't want to or be able to distribute a cure even if they were interested in using it for humanitarian purposes, and not a weapon for overthrowing what's left of civilization.

[@100aegir]

*cough* Joel murdered bunch of people just to save one person regardless *cough* No matter how you cut it, he's in the wrong. Had it been the case of "Save Ellie and doom any chance of finding a cure" it still been pretty shitty but its an old philosophy question like the "Trolly Problem" but what he actually did was "Kill bunch of people to save Ellie and doom any chance of finding a cure" so yeah, he was just selfish and in the wrong. Now, I'll say it is very much a human thing to do, but in the end its selfish and destructive and in now way a morally correct answer.

[@lupvirga]

you don't even know if it's possible to make a cure with what they had. it's only ONE sample. and if that ONE sample get's contaminated, well, Ellie is now dead for nothing. sense the human race seems to be evolving to become immune to this fungus, the more that lives the better. For the LONG TERM saving Ellie is the best choice.

[@100aegir]

***** "the more that lives the better" Are you forgetting the part where Joel kills bunch of people to get Ellie back?

[@lupvirga]

100aegir i'm talking about those that are immune. I could have worded that better

[@kevinpark4251]

“If God is all powerful, He is not all good. If He is all good,He is not all powerful”- Luther- Batman vs Superman

[@lasttemplar6074]

Faulty logic

[@lasttemplar6074]

This same point has been made and disproven many times

[@mercmanmagik5250]

The thing is, Humans can not make since of God, if you could then he would not be God. Your brain is designed to survive on Earth and that's it. Survive.

[@kevinpark4251]

Merk Six18 honestly I thought that the quote sounded cool

[@sirmeliodas7695]

So this is basically ark survival evolved and we just chilling but no dinosaurs

[@Mortablunt]

You know, Logan could have just fucking EXPLANED himself...

[@Terrible_name]

to his brother (you) yes, that would have been a great idea.. and a few other people should have known too probably. but telling the masses that a creeping shadow monster that drives people insane and consumes them into shadow (assuming anyone actually believed him) would just drive people into panic, and very little progress would be made.. people would be scared and he would still fail to prepare. (which he explained himself.. sort of)

[@ReincarnateDarkness]

He does say that. "You know. You've seen it. But they haven't, they cannot understand it's horror, what it can do." And he's probably right. Me and most other Americans know we funded ISIS and Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but we don't really care, it's too removed of a threat for most citizens to want to do anything about it. Just like across the sea from Albion in the land of Aurora.

[@Terrible_name]

WretchedWyrm right. it's too distant and irrelevant until it's a proven and current threat, and by them it's all panic and fear. I mean when the attack does happen you can actually see how useless the guards are because they're busy shitting their pants about the shadow monster

[@lordkameguru7851]

"Me and most other Americans know we funded ISIS and Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but we don't really care, it's too removed of a threat for most citizens to want to do anything about it." Which pisses me off. Anyone who doesn't try to do anything about it (no matter how little or much) is scum of the earth and deserves to rot.

[@Ously6]

So could the Player Character! 'a black primordial slime is coming to eat us in one year so shut up!' Seems like a good card for a king or queen to have. Why can't we just keep the bad policies for one year then switch them? Surely one year of hardships is better than one year of picnics followed by Armageddon

[@amecarethqc6652]

In The last of us, there's one detail that's you guys forgot to mention (maybe you didn't know). In one of the recordings, you learn that Ellie wasn't the only one immune and that they tried multiple times on other people without success.

[@MsKeylas]

Agreed, That is just another nail in the coffin of proving that Fireflies are idiotic amateurs

[@mrandersnn6964]

Is this true?

[@jeremiahwalker6464]

last i remember, when I played Fable 3, King Logan wanted me to turn the orphanage into a brothel where the kids could come as well... just saying. Plus kudos to all the people who mentioned real estate. I bought everything u could and was making like 500k every 20 min. Sadly, I was not aware of the time skip or the secret way to rewind time. So all my people died before I could donate my money... Luckily they came back after a bajillion years.

[@GayBearBro2]

Reaver was the one that offered all of the possible bad options for extra money. Alternatively, I also came back after a month away and spent all of my own money paying for all of the good stuff.

[@thomaspurol9322]

Literally no one disagreed with Marlene, my only gripe is that they didn’t make it Elies choice to sacrifice

[@hunterbailey3071]

Or just kill them and not play the trash that is 2

[@pluto3194]

Handsome jack isn't that bad. He was betrayed by people he thought were friends. I would turn in to a murderous psycho if that happened to me.

[@spikewall5762]

Someguy1237 thats why im a sociopath :D

[@sgtbaker2072]

"Think of all the fun you could have being 'terribly sorry' about everything." 😂🤣

[@jasonu3741]

its weird how he just kind of forgot about the whole Slavery Thing and how the Brittish historically would have been an immediate upgrade in governance to that portion of the population.

[@Parklout]

The thing about the templars in Assassin's Creed is that, for whatever reason they want order and purpose always seems to come down to pry away free will from people to "free" them which in itself (wherever you look in the series) is a glorified "You don't like this prison-like life of yours, let's place you in a different prison-like life, only, it's ruled by us instead".

[@balazscsotai8354]

I think that they both are somewhat good. Because The Assassin Brotherhood is trying to preserve humanity's freedom, and the Templar Order tries to protect humanity from itself.

[@jensonneake8887]

"It's a face not a bikini line" gave me a good chuckle lol

[@irishphoenix4948]

Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2 should have totally been on this list. Pandora really is littered with bandits and using a giant badass warrior to cleanse the planet sounds pretty awesome.

[@Hahnfruh]

Agreed. Only problem was him being a sadistic psycopath. Other than that he's a pretty cool guy

[@RandomMajin]

Actually he'd fit perfectly on this list just because of the reasons BOTH of you brought up.

[@Allistar123]

but that isn't why he wants the Warrior or the Vaults. He has always wanted the Vaults as a means to fulfill his ambitions to gain money and power. He doesn't give a fuck about anybody living on Pandora.

[@highfire666]

But all living things on Pandora are bandits or worse, so ofcourse he doesn't care about those. It's hard to decide objectively who's bad and who's good in the borderlands series, since you're literally playing as someone going around the wasteland killing every living thing you can find. But then again, of all the characters in the story, Jack is the only one trying to make Pandora a better place. He's an incredible asshole, but it's hard to deny that he's in fact the good guy. As he said it himself, he's the hero. His story in the pre-sequel was really good and gave a lot of insights on why he did certain things.

[@irishphoenix4948]

+Allistar123 he's already super rich(has a pony made of diamonds) so money isn't an issue or motivation for him

[@BigTiddy]

now, these dudes I can respect. They tell us what games are gonna be spoiled. Respeck

[@dogestranding5047]

You became a demon, for such little weapons as that?

[@BigTiddy]

Bryan Wheelock I'm already a demon, Bryan.

[@mehrunesdagon6366]

oh god not you.

[@addisontucker5908]

put some respeck on mah name

[@BigTiddy]

Sam McCallum oh god yes me

[@saltnvinegar6607]

Pagan Min helps you if you wait in the beginning room for 10 minutes. He brings you outside, and lets you spread your mother's ashes. *BuT iTs 2018 aNd AlMosT eVerYonE knOWs tHaT.*

[@zom-b-bunny2565]

with the villians in gotham i was reading this light novel at one point and the main character made a spell in which it targeted all the corrupt bad guys cops etc and just ripped their heart out. all bad guys gone and his company that no one knew that he had swooped in saved everyone and made the place safer for all

[@16m49x3]

king logan didn't have a point. He could have just invested in real estate, and he would have enough money to win as many wars as he wants.

[@PepperKatLancer]

you do what you know how to do being driven by fear made him a tight wad and hated by the people . what could you do in that situation? if your hated they drive prices up so you cant buy or never sell .

[@16m49x3]

if an exile can amass a fortune big enough to run a kingdom and and army at the same time. I'm sure a king can do the same.

[@PepperKatLancer]

Haiiry Cake a hero can do things other humans cant. not an exile a Hero.

[@16m49x3]

there are heroes around and instead of consulting with people who can do extraordinary things, Logan decided to keep the monsters a secret. Which had no purpose

[@Claude-Vanlalhruaia]

Clearly you know nothing about psychology or crowd control. He kept it a secret because if they people knew then there would be fear and chaos of an immense intensity, crime would go up, people will lose hope, the though of impending doom would drive weak minded people to almost insanity or insanity, etc there are many factors to calculate. His method are not acceptable but fear can do a lot to a man specially something so powerful that will for sure come at you.

[@aaronl8239]

9:58 I've played the game over and over just for that scene

[@MegaSim3]

The voice acting is on point though, it's brilliant

[@zachary5412]

making all the right decisions actually isn't hard on fable 3. its actually very easy to make up the money. As soon as you get into town in fable 3, start working and saving up money, and from there buy a couple houses and rent them out. eventually you will also unlock the ability to buy businesses. Over the time of which you play the game, simply buy more and more land until you own it all, and you will make lots of money. And that money will build itself up on its own. While its building up, there's plenty to do in the mean time to assure it grows to the proper amount. What some people don't realize until after they already beat the game is that there are plenty caves to explore, cheasts to open, keys to find, gnomes to destroy, and side quests to complete. Working with all these while also doing a main mission here and there to make progress to the next city will make your money eventually grow at the right amount by the time you need it to save the kingdom. Its super easy, and makes for plenty more play time which can get people to stfu about the game being too short. Its all on how you play it. If you play it quickly and do nothing extra, then its your fault, and your trouble to save the kingdom

[@hailervin]

Exactly, Logan was a villainous idiot who I gladly executed even after figuring out why he was doing what he was doing because the sheer stupidity in putting all those people into miserable conditions just to make a weak ass army that would have certainly failed from the start when he could have just took a better understanding of how to flip houses and be a damn good landlord and poured in his own money into making an army to begin with.

[@kikkih4592]

so I know this is a super late response to this but as someone who only recently played (yeah im crazy late lol) I was wondering, do you repair the houses before lending them out? Like spend gold and make sure everything is at 100%?

[@hailervin]

Yes and don't worry, I was very late to the party when I first played it back in 2013. Yeah, I just basically started small making pies and after making God knows how many pies, I would get a home and rent it out to someone and yes I recommend repairing the houses before lending them out, think you wouldn't want to rent out a virtually untouched and neglected house to someone would you? If you don't regularly repair and maintain the houses, the people currently renting them out aka the tenants will eventually get uppity with you and stop paying their rent, but for the record this takes a little while before this happens. I would keep the rent low for the cheaper homes particularly within the mountain area of the game and just buy out and rent out every single home and keep the rent low as I made more gold. In fact the only areas I made the rent kind of high was in the more generally wealthy suburbs that were already fairly well off even during the time of Logan... which isn't too many areas because Logan was pretty incompetent because logically they have more gold to spend in general anyways.

[@hailervin]

Admitingly this is a bit of a tedious process but the end result is you'll have more money than you'll even know what to do with and you basically both economically and by heritage have control of the entire land and the best part is everyone loves you save like two naysayers who opinions don't really matter anyways because they're rich little prudes who no one likes anyways.

[@someone-xx6qz]

So, to get rich in fable you need to play monopoly?

[@georgewashingmachine8403]

*i was watching a movie with my family and I said “the bad guy has a point” and my family looks at me weird now idk why there mad about a WW2 movie🤷🏻‍♂️*

[@aidanborresen9659]

You tried justifying the holocaust?

[@aidanborresen9659]

Kellen Nicholson what are you mad about? 🤣

[@dankertester]

Okay the last of us one was wrong. So many people get it wrong. If you listen to the audio recordings in the game, you find out that its impossible to find a cure. They tried it on twelve other people and had the same results every time. They were going to kill her out of desperation and it would not have saved humanity at all.

[@christiand1337]

Finding a cure is never "impossible." Highly unlikely, especially trying the same (lethal) methodology as a dozen other attempts, but not impossible. I've never played The Last of Us, but why was the concept of a frontal lobe lobotomy out of the question? Or even a surgery similar to how they used to treat seizures? Neurosurgeons would separate the two hemispheres by severing the corpos callosum IIRC. Are their surgeons less skilled than needed? Is certain medical tech unusable in a post-Tenactin world?

[@alphahunterd]

I think they need the whole brain.

[@Commandant_Aeon]

everyone has every zombie scenario wrong. Ready to get mind blown ? good : Even if they could have found the cure (which they couldn't, not only because their methods were off the mark but also because they don't have the tools to do it), then so what ? I mean, the only ones that could be saved are the soon to be turned, after that they only live thanks to the fungus, and I'm not yet mentionning the fact that they can't distribute it for obvious reasons. There is no use to find a cure while killing someone, the price is way too high for way too low return, hence why it was a bad idea in the first place and the only reason why we got through all of that was because at first we didn't care.

[@Ares3043]

I think the even more... damning point that TLoU was making in the lead up to the finale was: "Is humanity worth saving" Observe the nature of the world. It's flora and fauna retaking hold over the planet. Covering in a sense the scars of mankind. It's really summed up in the giraffe scene near the end. Is the death of 1 innocent and arguably the only 'good' person worth less than millions of lives that have degraded into amorality/are intrinsically evil? TLoU is a massive middle-finger to Utilitarianism.

[@accomplisheddiplomat4091]

@@Ares3043 There is no such thing as intrinsically evil people. That should really be obvious as it is logically impossible. Just like there is no such thing as intrinsic altruism. It's kind of difficult to see Ellie as the only good person. I mean Tommy, Marlene, the fireflies, etc. They all did something in pursuit of a greater good, and were kind of the last remnants of proper civilisation (remember, the actual government controlled territories were basically post apocalyptic North Korea). I like to think they deserve to be saved. Also, Ellie isn't really very good herself. She killed David (which may sound alright, just bear with me) who lead a commune that, yes, was a bunch of cannibals, but it was mentioned that it had children, who, like Ellie, did nothing wrong. Without a leader, and with half the adults dead due to Joel's rampage, the children will probably perish or be eaten or something like that.

[@CleansingFire17]

However, in Last of Us, there are other voice recordings that say without saying that there have been others with Ellie's condition, and they have all failed to produce a cure.

[@shioriryukaze]

CleansingFire17 I've seen a walkthrough and that has always been the question i had on my mind

[@aerongray2228]

and they dont give ellie a choice or an explanation and they dont give joel time to process it. its like "hey, so heres a girl with a cure" and theyre like "yes, lets cut her brain out as soon as is literally possible". they should have waited. explained it to her. let her say she was ready to do it and let ellie and joel have a tearful goodbye.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

The True Good Ending!

[@reviewception4328]

Creshosk that's pretty cynical dude

[@Cernumospete]

Talon Greenlee vor 1 Jahr Marlene did not have a good point! She wanted to create a VACCINE for a FUNGAL disease. Vaccines only work on viruses.

[@frankieplatou8410]

Why didn't you but Handsome Jack? He had a plan to bring peace to Pandora by summoning the Warrior

[@hawkeyegough9090]

and he also had more than fair reasons to hate the vault hunters

[@lordmalkom1675]

"bringing Peace"

[@Andrius971]

Consdering that pandora is a shithole filled with crazy people, yeah, he would bring peace.

[@leafia133]

But at the point in borderlands 2 he has gone insane the thing is he tries to control Pandora through terror which is never right. Pre-sequal he is the hero till the end

[@Ramseas119]

though i agree, Pagan was on this list.....sooo..yeah...i think the insanity isn't too much of a factor here...

[@jokerred605]

"Nanomachines, son" Most villains of MGRR have some sort of point to them, especially Senator Armstrong. Even Jetstream Sam, although we never hear it.

[@whateverwhatever4026]

Metal Gear in general is great for that. Liquid, Solidus, Ocelot. They're not all wrong, and do have decent arguments....at points. About the only ones who really are wrong completely are Volgan and Zero. Maybe Skullface, although I do like the idea of everyone shutting up already.

[@HondaAccord-fo5sz]

"we live in a society" - Joker Morgan Freeman 1853

[@CeliriaRose]

"We spent years hating those dreadful templars and then Haythm Kenway came along in Assassin's Creed 3 and was the first to make us think hey maybe these guys have a point" Uh, Assassin's Creed 1 says hi. The whole Templars aren't pure evil thing was originally an established part of the series from the very start (albeit a point that the continuing games started to ignore). AC3 wasn't the first to show this idea it was just one of the first to remember that it was supposed to be a thing rather than just treating the templars as generic baddies.

[@jared5803]

And then ac rouge made the assassins the bad guys.

[@omarkhater3635]

It's a shame Anarchy didn't show up in Arkham Knight.

[@stutudi4881]

+BEST GAMING CLIPS /VETOSOLMU rly? which One?

[@reesiuspeesiuspuffs3006]

+BEST GAMING CLIPS /VETOSOLMU No he's not

[@omarkhater3635]

***** Ummm no he isn't. The Season of Infamy has Ra's,Mr Freeze,Killer Croc and Mad Hatter.

[@matthewbarber2330]

anarky is in knight, hes actually the guy who releases fear gas in the beginning diner scene

[@megasonicgeo]

+M Bar That just just a random thug.

[@amberstone1189]

Asgore, If he gets your soul then he can save all monsterkind. And in the genocide run Chara has quite a bit of motivation for erasing your game.

[@fricken99]

Andrew Ryan had a point. The Reapers had a point. The Wild Hunt had a point. Emhyr had a point. The Locust Queen had a point. The Covenant had a point. Handsome Jack had a point. Now that i think about it.

[@Chief-Spectre]

What point did The Wild Hunt have?

[@Adventurewizard44]

wait wait wait. how the hell did the reapers in mass effect have a point?

[@HanzLeHotDog]

The enclave from fallout 2 had a point. :/ The enclave from fallout 3 had more of a point. :/

[@fricken99]

basil Bass You see the reapers were created by some of the first organic civilisations before the Protheans to prevent humans from creating synthetics which would lead to an all out war that inevitably would destroyed the universe or all organic life. Something along those lines. Think of the reapers as a means to "thin out the herd". *The ending conversation of ME3 with the catalyst revealed why the actions of the Reapers were justified. P.S. Similar storyline to Kingsmen: The Secret Service.

[@moribell1083]

The reapers and the covenant did not have points man, they were absolute evil.

[@VileVamp]

Have to disagree with Last of Us. It was clear that the Fireflies were getting fuck-all results with the improvised brain surgery.

[@UnBR0k3enAngel]

How so? (keep in mind I've only done three completed runs, as the game is a monster to get through without speedrunning it)

[@XthorgoldX]

First, the surgery being successful is ambiguous. Second, so what if it had a slim chance? There are DOZENS of games where the protagonist, in pursuit of the greater good, will risk it all, potentially getting themselves and other people killed, if it means even the slightest chance at a better future. In The Last of Us, the surgery - IF it worked - would've meant the END OF THE APOCALYPSE. If it didn't work, it would've meant that one innocent girl died. And, if you interfere, you kill dozens of people and effectively exterminate the last group capable of finding a cure (brain surgery or not) for nothing more than the fact that you, personally, won't sacrifice your personal feelings even if it means saving the world. Joel is the *villain.*

[@SMgrimbldoo]

+UnBR0k3enAngel You find tapes and notes talking about unsuccessful attempts. The best thing to do is spread the word about immunity and set up a containment program for the infected, only executing them if they turn and letting them live if they're immune. Eventually all humans gain immunity.

[@percivalconcord9209]

Joel is the *villain* i'm with you on that but even if they made a vaccine you really think that the Fireflies would just distribute it? *Freely*? If they really developed a vaccine it would be a *powerhouse*, and there will be problems with distributing it but that's just being optimistic if you further disregard the other factions in the game like the Hunters and Military who would be really keen on the matter, a cure for such a plague won't be *cheap* either i don't suppose in a post-apocalyptic environment that even the Fireflies would be keen to be giving charity cookies.

[@DaDunge]

Actually no, if it didn't work you'd have destroyed the very cure you set out to extract. As long as Ellie lives they have options if they play their hand and kill her they have nothing. As always in these difficult choices the are only difficult in a vacuum, in reality there are always more options, extract some small part of the fungus and then just grown more from it, or basically any option but the two presented by the game.

[@Brewsterion]

"Instead of me, he promotes CHARLES LEE!"

[@Skadfun]

Makes him second in command

[@oriorchids]

I'm a general! WHEEEEEEEE!

[@captainpanic3616]

Yeah, he’s not who I’d have gone with

[@Skadfun]

He shits the bed at the battle of Monmouth.

[@oriorchids]

Skadfun EVERYONE ATTACK!

[@archiethebat7008]

For Far Cry 4, Pagan Min will let you spread your mother’s ashes if you don’t just leave, which makes the point even better.